Jeff Goldberg Confidence Lab Sales Program with Joe Apfelbaum

Hello everybody. We're now live on LinkedIn. My name is Joe Apfelbaum and I'm bringing a special guest, Jeff Goldberg, here with us today. And we're going to be having a conversation about sales because a lot of people, they get leads and then they don't necessarily close those leads. It becomes like a problem. Have you had that with your clients, Jeff?

Sure. It's a— there are 2 main problems that I find in Both regular professional salespeople and what I call the accidental salesperson. And regular professional salespeople— that's me, I'm a professional salesperson. You're not. You're a marketing and a LinkedIn expert, but you have to sell as part of your job. So I call you the accidental salesperson. And both accidental and professional salespeople have 2 main problems. One, they're not speaking to enough prospects. And 2, when they do speak to the prospects, they're not closing enough. Exactly right.

So if people are not closing enough prospects, what's the problem? As a professional sales trainer with over 30 years experience, what is the problem? 50 years experience? You look so young. How could you have 50 years?

I popped out of the womb selling.

How could you have, how could you have 50 years experience if you're only 30 years old?

My mother says to me all the time, how could you be 70 when I'm only 64? I don't know, Mom.

Wow. Wow. Unbelievable. Okay. So you have 50 years experience selling. Do you think things were different 50 years ago when you started selling than where they are today in 2025?

Absolutely. It was more like the Wild West back then. There was way more lying, cheating, stealing, exaggerating. Today, I think that there's a lot more integrity, although it's not perfect. But the internet changed everything because nowadays it's very easy to Let your fingers do the walking, and if somebody doesn't get back to you quickly, if they aren't giving you good pricing, it's very easy to check that stuff out. So you've got to be incredibly responsive. You've got to have ultimate empathy for people, and they've got to stop selling the wrong way. And it irks me when I see this. You know, most people think that sales is about convincing or persuading or talking people into things. And Joe, you know, I go against what most sales trainers say because most sales trainers are going to teach you exactly that. You've got to be convincing and persuade people. No, sales is simply a conversation or a series of conversations leading to help the other person choose to do business with you. With 50 years of experience, I don't believe I'm good enough at sales to talk anybody into anything that they don't want, don't need, or can't afford unless I'm willing to lie, cheat, or steal, which I'm not. So for me, it's how do I have enough great conversations with the right people? Because I know some of them are going to choose to enroll with me. They're going to become my client.

Okay. So somebody doesn't have the skills to like have— a lot of people, they don't have these skills. These are skills that you're not just born with to know how to be able to, you said like get people— Have the conversation. Have the conversation that— and it's a very big problem because often somebody is just trying to be like talking about what they want instead of kind of really serving the client and asking the questions. So why are people failing at sales? They get people on the phone, But they're failing at selling. Why do you think they're failing?

Yeah, there's a couple of reasons. One is they're pitching. Let me tell you why Jeff Goldberg and Associates is the greatest training coaching firm in the world. And then I vomit all over you. It's not about a pitch. In fact, I hate that word when it comes to selling.

You hate pitches?

The only pitcher should be on a mound at Citi Field or Shea Stadium, but salespeople should not be pitching. So number one, people are pitching. They're just trying to tell you, here's why you should work with me. And they're not doing what you said, which is asking questions. The key to selling is not your great presentation skills, and it's not your strong closing skills. And I have both. I'm a professional presenter, and I used to sell Encyclopedia Britannica door-to-door. I know how to close, but that's not what works anymore. What works is having gentle conversations where you're asking lots and lots of the right questions. And that's what I'm going to be working on with people in the Sales Confidence Lab.

Okay, hang on a second. Hang on a second. You're asking the right questions.

Yes.

And people don't have those questions to ask because they're so busy trying to sell. That's what you're saying. People are trying to pitch and they don't have all the right questions. It's so funny. We just had a session today with Bea Randall in our— we have a community with 1,100 people and our leaders, we have leaders within the community and they all lead their own events. So Barbara, who's here right now watching live on Zoom, She leads a posting party on Friday, which Jeff, you should come to, where everybody posts together and they all comment and it's a whole support group and stuff. But B. Randall said, you have to figure out, in order to be successful, he had an exposure party, in order to be successful, figure out the questions people are asking and then get those questions on your website so Google and all the different search engines and all the LLMs will rank you for those questions. It's so interesting. The right questions lead to the right solutions, Ian says in the comments over here. But I'm curious to know, like, you're going to be teaching people a 12-week program that helps them be able to— you were going to say identify the right questions that lead to money. Is that what it is? Tell me what you're going to be doing with people for 12 weeks now.

Just hanging out like you do. No, no, we'll actually— nobody's like you, Joe, that's for sure, because I can't make up a rap in 2 seconds, which I'm betting if I said, Joe, give us a rap, you could. I'm not sure if we have time. Go ahead.

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Go ahead. Yeah, no, you're fine.

So yeah, I'm going to be working with people, first of all, to understand what selling really is. And to me, the— you used the word earlier. It's not trying to talk people into things. Selling is serving. My job is to serve as many people as possible, whether they're professional or accidental salespeople, and help them to close more business, help them to serve more people so that they can close more business and make more money. It works out well for everybody.

Okay, so somebody works with you—

It's all about the mindset.

If somebody works with you like one-on-one, you charge many hundreds of dollars for people to work with you one-on-one. You charge $500 an hour for people to work with you one-on-one. But if they take this 12-week program with you, you're actually gonna be charging them peanuts for the entire 12-week program to work with you for all 12 weeks to help make sure they have their— why are you calling it the Sales Confidence Lab? Why'd you call it that?

Because I believe that one of the things that's lacking in most accidental sellers, and this is strictly for accidental sellers, you know, Joe, for a living, I mainly train professional salespeople. I've worked with companies like Cisco Systems and Aramark and Citibank and Siemens, but this is specifically for consultants and coaches and people like that. So we're going to be working on what is the right mindset, what are the questions that you should be asking, and yes, not $500 an hour, uh, and I know I'm not cheap, but working with me one-on-one— look, you're, you're good. You're not cheap either. You can have cheap or you can have good. I'm good. So are you. But this is going to be incredibly cost-effective because we're not going to be working on one-on-one. But here's the great news. I'm going to be covering all the same stuff that we would be doing one-on-one. And here's something that I think people miss that is not so obvious. One of the things that my clients tell me they like most about my coaching is the accountability piece. At the end of every session, each session is an hour, at the end of every session, they make promises to me about typically what kind of prospecting they're going to do and how much of it. And it's not me telling them how much to do. They're making a commitment. And the reason I believe that's so important is because I'm a pretty determined guy. I have a strong will. But if I make a promise to myself and I want to break it, I love me. I'll let myself off the hook. But I'd rather break my arm than break my word to you, Joe. So everybody in this group is gonna have an accountability partner that they're gonna speak with at least once a week to make sure they're actually doing the work and staying on track and getting a huge ROI. And at the end of 12 weeks, they will be in a much better place to have great conversations with prospects and enroll them in whatever their program or their course or whatever they offer is. So, okay, so it's not $500 an hour. By the way, anybody who registers through you and uses Joe50 is gonna get $50 off.

Okay, so I have a question. Are you guys interested in taking your sales game to the next level? And if you are, write 12 in the chat so that I know that you guys want to consider working with Jeff for 12 weeks. Jeff has personally coached me on sales. We've been working together for quite some time. I've also sent him many clients and he sent me many clients. And Jeff was the first person that referred to me an account that paid me $15,000 for one sales call. session for one keynote. They paid me $15,000, and after that they kept using me over and over and over to train their team on how to use LinkedIn. So I'm eternally grateful to Jeff to make me realize my own worth of being able to charge $15,000, because he's also a professional speaker and not just a professional salesperson. He's also been a member of the National Speakers Association and someone that I respect very much and I consider a close friend. So in the chat, write 12 if you, if you want to consider working with him for 12 weeks and getting your sales game on point. Um, I just want to say that we are on LinkedIn Live, on Facebook Live, on Twitter Live, and on YouTube Live right now. So, um, and, and, and also I watched Jeff do standup comedy in Long Island. So he happens to be a comedian as well. Paul said, and a comedian too, right? Thank you, Paul, for bringing that up. Um, but I want you guys to go to the LinkedIn Live. If you're here live with me on Zoom, go to the LinkedIn Live that I just shared in the chat. Click on that link if you don't mind and then go there and in the comments of that LinkedIn Live, write what you're selling. Just write what your offer— write your offer because a lot of people, they don't even know what their offer is. And if you don't know what your offer is, you're going to have a hard time working with Jeff or working with anybody because Jeff's not here to teach you your offer. He's here to teach you if you have an offer and you do what I tell you to get people on the phone, He'll teach you how to get them to become a client and pay you money. That's the idea behind what he does. Jeff is not a marketing expert. He's not a LinkedIn expert. He's good at one thing. He's really, really good at one thing, which is when you're on the phone with somebody, he's really good at taking you through the process of getting to know somebody, figuring out what their problem is, and then aligning their problem with your solution. And for them to get the aha moment, for them to realize like, oh my goodness, I need your services. And then for them to ask you for the order instead of you begging them and chasing them and telling them what you do and making them crazy and following up. Jeff, it's like my mind is blown. The fact that you're making multiple 6 figures a year from people begging you to do business. And I'm quite like, how do you— Like, could you tell me a story of transformation that you did for another coach or consultant that they went through this program, maybe they paid you $500 an hour, you know, for 12 hours, which is, I don't know, $6,000, $7,000, $10,000 or whatever they paid you, and then you transformed them and they were able to generate revenue. Can you tell us a quick transformation story for a coach or a consultant you worked with?

Sure. And I hope she doesn't mind me using her name, but, you know, our friend Suzanne Taylor King. She wasn't my friend when she started working with me, but She credits me with her huge success in sales, just like you do, Joe, and I'm honored that you do, just like you transformed my LinkedIn game. You know, when I met you, I had 700 followers, and a year later I had 7,000, and now I'm close to 10,000. So, you know, when you, when you find the right coach, everything falls into place. You and I have a very similar style. You know, we speak fast, we want to cram as much, as much value into every conversation as we possibly can. But in working with Suzanne, I saw there were just some Some head trash, which for those who don't know the term, head trash is the little voice inside your head that's constantly talking to you, telling you stuff. Usually it's negative. And if you're not sure what voice I'm talking about, it's the voice that just said, what voice is Jeff talking about? Head trash around sales like so many people do, especially the non-professional salesperson. Selling sucks. I have to be pushy. I have to be aggressive. People are going to think badly of me. I don't feel right asking for money. All that stuff is part of my French bullshit. If you've got a great product or service just like Suzanne Taylor King does and you do and I do, then you owe it to yourself and them to reach out to them in whatever way you're going to and have a conversation with them because if you don't, you're ripping off them and yourself. Look, I always say it's not bragging if it's true. I'm freaking phenomenal at what I do. I owe it to people to help them choose to do business with me. Now, that does not mean I pressure people because I never do. I am the opposite of pressure. I have very gentle conversations that uncover for me what somebody really needs. And by the way, sometimes they don't even know what they really need. They're willing to have a conversation, but they think it's one thing. And then through asking the right questions, I discover they actually need something else. So you ask the right questions, you find out what they need, and you always want to ask— here's a giveaway for anybody, whether you're going to work in this program or not. You always want to ask what's called a future-based question. And here's what that's going to sound like. So Barbara's nodding her head, so I'm going to use her name. If Barbara was a VP of sales and I wanted to sell her sales training, it would be like this. And this is just one of the many questions I would be asking, but it's an important one.

And by the way, Barbara, Barbara helps women chemists that are 45 plus, and she does one-on-one coaching with them. Just FYI, women chemists. C-H-E-M-I-S-T-S, yeah.

Awesome. So if I was going to— if she was a VP of sales and I wanted to talk to her about sales training, one of the questions I would be asking is this. Hey Barbara, I'm just curious about something. If we decide to work together, and by the way, notice I didn't say if you decide to work with me because we're partners in this. If we decide to work together, Barbara, and 6 months from now we're sitting in your office, what would have to have happened in the last 6 months for you to say, Holy crap, Jeff, I am so glad that I met you. And then I'm going to do the most difficult thing for salespeople to do, which is stop talking, because Barbara's now going to explain to me exactly what she's looking for. Exactly. So she might say, Well, Jeff, my people don't get enough appointments with decision-makers, so they'll be getting more appointments, that's for sure. When they do finally get an appointment, they can get people about halfway through the process, but they can't get them closed. When they do manage to close a deal, it's almost never profitable because they can't negotiate to save their lives. So they'd be better negotiators. We'd have a shorter sales cycle. We'd be closing more business and they'd be getting more appointments. That's called a future-based question. Now from there, I'm able to say, Barbara, and by the way, I use those examples because that's exactly what I do. I would say, Barbara, that's exactly what we're going to do together and here's what it's going to look like. So I don't really sell. People sell themselves. I let them tell me what they want. And by the way, I want to make very clear, I don't take what they want and try to fit a square peg into a round hole. I believe part of selling sometimes is going, you know what, Barbara, I'm not the right person for you, but my friend Joe Apfelbaum is the person who can help you. Can I make an introduction?

Wow.

I don't turn down business if I'm not right. I'm also in the enviable position, like I know you are, sometimes I have to turn down business because I'm just too busy and I've got a waiting list. But By asking a future-based question, your prospect tells you what they're looking for.

And that's one of the reasons why Jeff is offering this Confidence Lab program because he's so busy with people that pay him tens of thousands of dollars to work with their professional sales teams. But he really cares about coaches and consultants and wants to make a difference for you guys. So if you're interested in working with him, write 12 in the chat so that we know that you're interested in working with him. And also like think about what it would take for you to kind of shift the way that you're thinking, because it's really a mindset game that you're playing when you're on the phone with somebody, because often you're so desperate to close the deal that you just say, hey, buy it already. But you have to have the patience to kind of go through this weird process that Jeff is talking about. And it is a weird process for you to ask a future-based question. One of the things that Jeff taught me, and I'm not going to give away his whole bag of tricks, but 'Cause I don't even know the whole bag of tricks. 'Cause he taught me many of them, but one of them that he always says is, once they're ready to buy, one of the things that you taught me, and I literally use this every time, and I just use it literally, I kid you not, 20 minutes ago, I was on a call and I closed the deal. It was the first deal. We've been having a hard day with closing deals today. It was the first deal that I closed today. I spoke to a lot of people, but I closed one deal. And I said this, I had Jeff ringing in my ear, and he said the following. Jeff said the following to me in my ear. He whispered in my ear, he said, In my professional opinion, I used those words. I used those words. In my professional opinion, I personally think if— I personally think the best thing you can do is sign up right now. And then I asked for the order and I say, would you like me to process your credit card now? And the guy said yes. And I shut my mouth, I charged him, and his credit card didn't work. And then I asked him, and then he went and put his own credit card in and it worked. But the crazy thing about it was that I literally used the words that came out of Jeff's mouth. It's almost like a hypnotizing thing that you do. Like, you're in that moment and it's kind of weird. And then you're like, oh, most people will say, oh, think about it and call me back tomorrow. Call me back next week if you want it. You know, it's the easy thing to do. But Jeff is like, hell no. Jeff, can you talk more about how you're going to teach people those, those weird hypnotizing, not, not like forcing people to do a thing or manipulating them, but like hypnotizing them to just do what is in their best interest.

Yeah. So there's no hypnosis and you're right. It's all about just being genuine. And the phrase I teach is actually, in my professional opinion, the smart thing to do is, and then fill in the blank, which is register or whatever it is. You know, sales is mostly psychology. So when I say, in my professional opinion, what did I just tell you I am? I'm a professional. You should listen to me. The smart thing to do is, well, the implication is if you don't do that, You're not being smart. So there are little words. And by the way, I can't resist, Joe. I had a client that I worked with for many, many years, a corporate client. And are you familiar with the phrase? I know you're not. You're not a Christian. But what would Jesus do?

What would Moses— can we say, what would Moses do? Can we kind of shift it?

That's not a famous phrase. But a famous phrase is WWJD, what would Jesus do? That's what Christians often ask. Because if you do what Jesus do, you'd be doing the right thing. I walked into a client one time after having worked with his team probably for 3 or 4 months, and there were WWJD signs all over the office. And I said, dude, you're Jewish. What do you have WWJD up there? He goes, what do you think that stands for? And I said, it's what would Jesus do? He goes, no, that's not the way we operate in the sales room. It's what would Jeff do? I was nearly floored. I mean, it's just amazing. But yeah, so I actually forgot your question, but I'll be teaching all these little tips tips, tools, techniques, and strategies that I've been teaching to professional salespeople for 20 years. I've been in sales for 50 years, but own my own training business for 20 years. And we're going to buy— by the way, we're going to be focusing probably about 40 to 50% on the mind game of selling because that's half the battle.

Okay. So, so you, so you walk people through this process of 12 weeks. You're going to sit with them, what, for an hour, an hour a week?

We're going to do 2 hours a week. It's going to be every Monday starting on the 21st from 1 to 3. There'll be—

So hang on. So they're getting 2 hours a week with you?

Uh-huh. And part of that's gonna be Q&A. Part will be training. Part will be Q&A eventually. And I don't wanna scare anybody, but we're gonna do live roles.

So that sounds like 24 hours of training.

Uh, 12. Yes, it is.

So, so they're gonna, you're gonna work with them for 24 hours over the course of 12 weeks. And by the end of 90 days, they're gonna have like an MBA. This probably, this probably sounds like it would cost thousands of dollars, but it's not. It's really affordable. So, you know, like if somebody wanted to sign up to this, would they just set up a call on your Calendly or reach out to you somehow? Or guys, put in 12 in the chat if you're interested in— I didn't even know it was that much training. I thought it was kind of like, you know, like an hour here, an hour there, but you're literally gonna sit with them and go so deep with them. How do you have the time to do this?

I set it aside on my calendar. How do you do anything? You know, I've blocked off my calendar.

Wow.

So that nobody, You know, my clients all have access to my calendar, just like you do.

You know, I have a question for everyone. On a scale of 1 to 10, how good are you at sales? 1 means you're terrible at sales and you're not really closing deals even when you speak to people on the phone. 10, you're like, you're Jesus basically at sales.

10 means I should be taking your class.

Paul's a 9+ with a smiley face. Marlene's a 1. Manuel's a 9.7. He just, before he was a 10, now he went down to a 9.7. He's going down by the minute. Rick, Susan's a 4. Um, what do you think gets— and Murray's a 3. What do you think gets people from like a 3 to a 10 or to a 9? I don't think anyone could really ever be a 10. If you're like, if you have a growth mindset, you can't be a 10 because there's always something to learn. What, yeah, what are the things that people are missing that you're going to teach?

One, confidence. That's why it's called the Sales Confidence Lab. They just don't have the confidence that they can have a conversation with people that's genuine and will result in as many times as possible, people going, sounds good, I want in. So one is they don't have the confidence. And 2 is the reason they don't have the confidence. They just have never been taught. They never took a class. They never read a book. They never went to a seminar. They never worked with somebody like you or me. They don't know how to sell. So they're winging it. And amateurs wing it. Professionals plan. Look, I'm so good at sales that people do pay me a lot of money per hour to teach them how to sell. But I didn't pop out of the womb knowing how to sell. Now, I will admit, I have some of the characteristics that I was born with, which tend to make somebody more likely to succeed in sales. Doesn't mean they're guaranteed success, but I'm outgoing and I'm personable and I'm funny and I'm honest and I know how to speak to people. So all those things make me more likely to be successful. But I studied sales. Look, there's 3 shelves. You can't see the top one. Those are all sales books. There's 2 more floor-to-ceiling bookcases in my home here that are filled with sales books. I still read almost every sales book that comes out. So the second reason is they were just never taught. They don't have a process. You have a process for teaching people how to use LinkedIn. You have a process, Evie AI, for putting in posts and doing all kinds of amazing things. I know it's a whole suite of things now. It's amazing. But without a process, you're just winging it.

Okay.

Hope's not a great strategy. Well, you can get on a lot of calls if you're lucky enough to have people involved willing to have conversations with you. But if you're just winging it, you're walking away like this all the time.

Okay. So sales process.

I gotta finish my thought. Why didn't this close? How many of you, how often have said, why didn't that close? They're the perfect client for me and I'm the perfect coach or consultant for them. It happens all the time. And that's the calls I get. Why am I not closing? Because you don't know how to sell. I'm going to teach a very straightforward, honest, simple— I like to call it, it's an organic way to sell. If you can have a conversation and you can learn a little something, I will teach you the right way to have those conversations.

I love that. And thanks for finishing the thought. I have a question for you, Jeff.

Sure.

If someone doesn't have a process and they take your Sales Confidence Lab, will they then at the end have a process?

Yes, they will walk away with a process. They're going to walk away with the right questions to ask. They're going to walk away with a brief commercial that you can use for both networking and selling. And it's important in both. And by the way, everybody who signs up, I'm personally going to look at their brief commercial and critique it for them. But they're going to have a boost in confidence. It's going to make them feel better when they're actually having conversations. And they're going to walk away with the belief, I can actually do this.

Okay.

I would be curious as to how many people on this call right now feel, you know what, I just can't sell.

Okay. So guys in the chat, tell me, right? I need a process or I have a process in the chat. I'm just curious to know right now, do you need a process or you have a process? That's number one. So in the chat, tell me. So Barbara said, I have a process. Marlene says, I need a process. So let's just see how many people say have versus need. And the other—

They're doing that, Joe. They're also going to walk away with the ability to stop getting ghosted. I don't know how many people are getting ghosted all the time. You know, people set appointments with you, they'll meet with you, maybe you give them a proposal, then they disappear. I've got a method called Be Nasty, which I know you're aware of. Let's not share that right now, but the Be Nasty method avoids ghosting, almost completely eliminates it. I can't promise it'll go away completely, but if you are having situations where people are disappearing on you, I not only have a way to avoid that, I will also be teaching everybody how How do you reengage people when they're ghosting you?

I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. Love that. Love that. I'm not going to tell you guys a secret. You have to—

the most important thing I teach.

Yeah, that's so important. So if you guys need a process, you already have a process, you probably want to take your process to the next level. If you don't have a process and you need one, speak to Jeff. If you want to hire him hourly, I don't think he's even available now. You can get on his waiting list. But if you want to take his 12-week program where he's literally giving you 24 hours of things at a free Fraction of the cost of what it would cost to work with him. I highly recommend you consider it. I know that he has to go on a sales call or on a coaching call, whatever you're doing at at at the top of the hour. So we're almost done. I want everyone something.

I'm so confident that this program is going to be great for anybody who registers. Thirty days in and you're not happy? I'm giving you your money back, guys. Money back guarantee.

So so dumb for you not to do this because he's going to give you 100% money back guarantee. So like. For sure do it.

And all the sessions are going to be recorded and everybody who is in the program has access to the recordings. They're also able to email me in between sessions if they have questions or there's something they need.

Just incredible.

I've worked for a long, long time, 20 years working with professional organizations, and about 6 months, kind of an epiphany came to me and said, I love what I do, but there's a whole group of people out there that just need what I've got and don't know how to get it. They don't consider that. If you don't consider yourself a salesperson, you wouldn't be looking for a sales trainer. And I don't say that each of you who are listening right now or watching right now are sellers to insult you, but you are. You've got it. You could be the best consultant, the best coach, the best trainer, the best anything, but if you can't sell your services, you're gonna starve. Okay guys, how do I serve more people?

Guys, click on, click on the link in the chat. That's Jeff's profile. Send him a DM. Say I heard you on the Joe Applebaum Live. Click on it, send him send that, and he'll return back to you a special offer at fifty dollars off. So click on that link, send him a DM. If you can't send him a DM, send him a connection request. He'll accept it, and then tell him that you heard it on the Joe Show. It's for those listening in somewhere else. It's linkedin.com/in/crushsalesgo. That's his LinkedIn URL, linkedin.com/in/crushsalesgoals.

You can also email me at jeff@salesconfidencelab.com.

jeff@salesconfidencelab.com. Jeff, this has been really enlightening. Guys, if you got value, write value in the chat so that Jeff knows that you gained value. I love you very much. Love having you in my life, you and Duke, and your energy is so beautiful. So thank you. Duke is his little dog over there that he has a picture of, right? Right over there.

He's laying outside the door right now.

He's laying out.

When Joe comes over to my house, let's just say that Duke pays a lot of attention to Joe. He loves him desperately.

Yeah, he does.

Joe, I can't tell you how much I do love you and respect you. You're a genius. I know you don't like when I say that, but you are truly a genius. I don't say that to say, oh, you're just a— you are truly a genius. Your generosity and your caring for people and your giving spirit inspires me every day, even though you're Like half my age.

Ah, thank you. I appreciate you very much. And I just want to say that if anybody buys this program and joins you on this, they'll be thanking me after. They'll be thanking me profusely saying, oh my God, Jeff changed my life. Jeff's not going to be doing this for the rest of his life, but for now he's doing it. So I highly recommend you guys jump in, grab his knowledge, and then, um, you won't regret it. And tell your friends about it as well. So thank you very much, Jeff, for being here. Thank you everybody else for watching this live and for attending the Zoom and all the stuff. And I appreciate you guys, and I'll see you guys on the next one.