Do It Because You Want To

Hi John, how are you?

Good, thank you Pam, how are you?

Just getting yourself sorted out, just to go in.

My cushion had slipped down.

Well, you know what, last time we talked about things to do for a healthy relationship, we talked a little bit about your article and how that can help people at this present moment in time in isolation. to create a good relationship with their partners, because we know it's gonna get to a point where people are gonna get frustrated and tensions are gonna go high.

Mm-hmm.

Today we're gonna talk about do it because you want to.

Mm.

So we can talk a little bit about what you wrote in the article, but then we also can put that into doing things at home. Last time I spoke about how I've asked my husband to do things and he's been fine, and when I've said to him, you should have done this, why don't you, you know, it's been not fine. So let's talk a little bit about that. You've said that when you, um, started working with clients, you spoke about the importance of compromise. I don't like that word.

No, neither do I. I did at the time. I thought it was a good word at the time. Yeah, yeah, because that's what I was taught as a couples therapist. Yeah, you know, it's important to talk about compromise within the relationships, but the longer that's my kind of experience has gone on, the more that word has become A no-no.

Yeah, I use more— when I talk to people, I talk to people and I say to them, you both got to step forward to a really good solution for both of you that works.

Yeah, yeah, and sometimes not. Again, it's— yeah, no, definitely yes, it's a solution that works, but it's sometimes— so the compromise word to me feels like I'm giving something up.

Yeah, definitely.

So we don't like to give things up. That's a very negative signal that we send to our brain, and it can make us feel quite resentful, and we don't really want to do it. So rather than compromise, when we say to do what someone wants to do, it's, I choose to do it because I want to do it. So if I know that by taking the rubbish out is going to make you happy, I take the rubbish out, even if I don't want to take the rubbish out. I'm able to suspend what I need in that moment to think about what you need because I want to, because making you happy is going to make me happy. Now, when we previously spoke, we touched on this idea of people pleasing.

Yeah.

That's a completely different thing altogether. That's when you only do things to make other people happy, but it doesn't make you happy.

Got it.

This needs to be something that makes you happy to do. And in a healthy relationship, that will be reciprocated. So when I work with my clients as couples and, and individuals, I try to encourage them to suspend what they need, because again, we don't know where that need comes from, and think about, is it okay for me to do this because this other person will be happy? And I'm happy that they're happy. If you're not happy, then again, we need to just have a check-in with ourselves. Okay, that doesn't make me happy. I do this all the time. They don't give me anything back, blah blah. So it's again, you go around it, you need to try to check this out to make sure it's okay for you.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but yeah, it's about meeting in the middle, but it's about saying, okay, I don't need this too much, but I know that you maybe you do, and I know that this is going to make you happy if I do this, and I am— because I love you, because I care about you, because your well-being is important to me. I am going to do this because it's going to put a smile on her face.

So you put in there the words, the keywords you used, um, is replace the should do with, um, I want to or I could do.

Yeah, yeah, so we know that shoulds, we throw our shoulds away.

I, I, I really, and it's a strong word, I hate shoulds, really do.

Shoulds are, I won't say the word, But one of the first things I learned in therapy was shoulds are poo, but with an S word. And Tony Robbins says people go around shoulding all over themselves. Honestly. So we need to get rid of those, roll them up and throw them away. So yes, I could do it. So when someone wants me to do something, should I do it? No. Could I do it? Of course I could. Do I want to? Yeah, all right. Yeah, okay, I do. Do I not want to? No, I don't really want to. But actually, if it's going to make them happy Again, not because I'm going to do anything detrimental to myself, but because it's going to help the healthiness of the relationship.

Sure. Like, example I have is like, so birthdays are important to me, and, you know, I make a fuss about birthdays for other people. And earlier on in my relationship with my husband, birthdays are not important to him at all. He doesn't really think that— it's just another day for him. So, you know, the conversations, I was like, you should be, you know, you should be, you know, doing this for me, doing that for me. And he— the more I said you should be, the more he didn't want to do it for me.

Yeah, definitely.

And it really has changed the point. Okay, I could do that for you because I know it does make you happy. And also he always adds, which is like, you know, he always says, well, if I don't do it, then I'm gonna get a good spanking. So I think he does it— probably does it to make his own life easier.

He does. He does it for himself. Yeah. Again, that's what we need to do. We need to do it for ourselves.

Yeah, yeah.

If it makes you really happy for me to celebrate your birthday, yeah, it's no skin off my nose to help you celebrate your birthday. If I can see that joy on your face, why wouldn't I do it?

Yeah.

You know, if I know that it's going to be easier for me to do the washing up because I know that you're knackered, or, um, that you always do the washing up, or it will help— be helpful for you, yeah, if I do that, and I know that you're, you're going to be happy about that, it's going to give you some kind of pleasure 10 minutes out of my day to do the washing up is no big shakes. I may not want to do it, but you know what, actually it's more important that you feel better than it is for me to not do the washing up. So we need to think about it. If it's not really a problem for me, then there's no problem with me doing it.

I think there could be a fine line there, because when you're talking about doing the washing, I think there's a really fine line there, because, because I think some people would take advantage of that. And some people would be like doing— start— end up doing too much. So it's a real, like, it's a constant communication to have with your partner, and it's a constant checking in with yourself kind of conversation, you know. Is this okay for me? Am I doing it for the right reason? Or am I— you know, it's all those kind of conversations you've got to keep on having them, don't you?

You definitely, definitely with yourself. Yeah, some of those conversations again won't go down well with your— with whoever it is that you're talking So if I say to you, blah blah blah, well, I've done all that washing up. Again, you're entering into some kind of confrontation or disagreement. Yeah. But if you just think, you know what, I've done the washing up 25 times and they haven't lifted a finger yet, they are taking advantage. They're just letting me do this now because they— and they don't have to. Again, then we go, okay, I'm just not going to do it. Or we have— I sit down, have a conversation. Do you realize that I've done this and you've basically done not very much?

Yeah.

I did this originally so we could help each other, and I don't feel like you're reciprocating. I think something that is not too confrontational or blaming or antagonistic.

That's going to come up a lot during this lockdown period because you'll have couples that are together on their own and then couples with children. I can see that these conversations, internal conversations, will be going around Constantly because somebody's going to feel that I'm doing too much and they're not doing enough and all that kind of stuff. Even with kids, you know, you're going to want the kids to do stuff and they're not doing enough stuff. So it's going to come up. I think these conversations are going to come up.

Exactly. And this is why, like you said earlier, communication is essential.

Yeah.

What are my jobs? What role am I playing? What are your jobs? What role are you playing? What are we going to do for each other? What are we going to do for the kids? So that there's a balance, that you don't feel that you're doing too much and I don't feel like I'm doing too much.

Yeah.

Because again, otherwise we're going to feel like it's unfair, we're going to get resentful, the antagonism is going to come in, we're going to start picking on each other. You're not doing this, you said you'd do that. And it's really important that you suspend everything again to one side and say, this is an exceptional time. I need to make sure that this works as harmoniously as possible.

Yeah, definitely.

If you find that your partner's not doing that, then your relationship was unhealthy in the first place.

Yeah.

Generally. So I would suggest that you reflect on actually what was your relationship really like in the first place. If they're not prepared to put their stuff aside for you, they probably never were. So we know that everyone's going to be struggling, so that might not be a clear-cut case, but I would suggest that generally that would be the case. If they're not prepared to do things for you or to have a balance within the relationship now, they probably never were.

Do you think, like, if you've got— if I think in this time people are going to realize either they really do treasure each other or they really don't like each other in this time, I think they're really going to get to that point.

So you might see an influx of divorces happening I think you're right, everything is going to be exacerbated, isn't it? Everything's under the microscope at the moment. Yeah, you know, you're spending 22 hours, 21 hours or something of a day with somebody. Everything that's right about it will have a light shined upon it, and everything that's wrong about the relationship would also have a light shined upon it as well.

Do you think that couples can really turn their relationship around?

If they're both willing to do so, yes, of course. Yeah, it needs to come from that space, as we kind of saw this conversation started, really, which is, do I want to do it? What do I want? If I want this relationship to be a success, then it's up to me to make sure that I put in the desired effort. Again, if that's not reciprocated, then there's nothing you can do.

Yeah.

You can only do what you can do. If that's not coming your way, then, you know, it's never going to work. But if you're both in the same space, you're saying, you know what, we're not getting on very well at the moment, what can we do about this? Let's talk about what you need, what I need, what we're doing, what we're not doing. And you want to do that enough, then you'll make the relation— you can make the relationship a success.

Yeah, so important to have those communication conversations. Yeah, going on to communication. Oh no, have I missed one? Have I missed learn about each other? No, we've done that one, haven't we? Oh no, let's go on to learn about each other. As you mentioned, in relationships we talk a lot about what the other person wants and the perspectives of where we're coming from. You've talked a little bit about the book about the 5 Languages of Love, which I absolutely love. Was trying to explain it to my husband and he got it the other way around. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm supposed to be doing what I think is right for you. I was like, no. It's not the language of love. We were talking about our son's birthday again. Again, the point about how he doesn't understand birthdays are really important. And for a 13-year-old, his birthday is super important at 13.

Yeah.

So just having that conversation, and he quoted the languages, the 5 Languages of Love. I said, you haven't read that book, so you can't quote it because you don't know it. So let's talk a little bit about that book, because I think that is so important at this time to be able to understand each other's love language so we can just have that moments, even if it's in the evening, like, you know, when, you know, couples have finished work and they're sitting down and just chilling and relaxing, or, you know, when they've had kids and the kids are gone to bed. Let's talk about how they can understand each other.

Yeah, so in a nutshell, I would say, suggest that they— you have a primary love language, so you have a way that you like to be shown that you're cared about.

Hmm.

Um, if that is given to you by the person that you're with— so if I like to be hugged and kissed a lot because that makes me feel loved, and the person I'm with hugs and kisses me a lot, I will feel like they love me. If they tell me they love me a lot, then I probably won't feel like they love me very much because they're not showing me in the way that I feel it. Same with the other way around. If I like to hug and kiss but they like to be told, and I give them lots of cuddles I'm never going to understand when they say, I don't feel like you love me. It's because I'm not saying it. So we all have a primary language. We all like all the different things. So we like gestures, we like words, we like affection and touching, we like gifts, and I can't remember what the 5th one is off the top of my head. But we all like those types of things. It all means something to us in some way, but we have a primary way of feeling that we're cared about. So like you said, with a birthday. You know, your son would have felt like his dad loves him because he remembered his birthday, he spoiled him on his birthday, and showed him that he cared about him on his birthday. Whereas your husband, if someone did that to him on his birthday, he'd feel very indifferently about it, and it wouldn't really matter because that's not how he feels like he's cared about.

My husband's acts of service— he likes me to do things for him.

Yeah, so on his birthday, if you went around making him breakfast in bed and sort of taking him out somewhere, buying him lunch, or, you know, kind of just making him feel like— yeah, which taps into his way of feeling cared about— he'll have a great day.

Yeah.

If you just bought him a present in the morning and told him that you loved him and did nothing else, he'd be like, well, you don't care, you obviously don't care. So again, yeah.

A lot of arguments can come up in this situation, can't they? You can see why people would have that conflict, because they're just not understanding. They just— I think as human beings we think, well, this is what I think is right, so if it's right for my head, it must be right for your heart, kind of thing.

Yeah, definitely.

So that's how they communicate that, not understanding that you're actually communicating to somebody. So when you're in a relationship, you've had a certain upbringing, they've had a certain upbringing, they are going to be reacting to things very different to you do. So it's really important to understand who they are For you to communicate that love.

Yeah, and also just, also just to tap into this, it's not necessarily the right thing for you either. So if I was a kid and my craving to feel loved came from my mum giving me a kiss and a cuddle, but she just bought me a toy, my primary language as I got older might be that I like people to buy me things because that's what my mum did. But actually, deep down, what I really need is a hug and a kiss. So you just also need to be careful that what I think my primary love language is, because that's where I got shown affection as a child, that might not necessarily mean that I feel loved.

Got it.

So it might mean something to me, but I still might feel like there's something missing. So I also need to get this all— what we talked about before, about this self-awareness and self-exploration. Is actually, yeah, you know what, I do feel like— because my mum still buys me stuff, right? So I feel like my mum loves me because she buys me stuff. My partner doesn't buy me stuff, but they hug me a lot. Actually, that feels really nice.

Mm-hmm.

So is actually being cared about meaning to me— is it, is it like, do I actually prefer kisses and hugs rather than being bought stuff? So again, there's a— there's— there is something in there which we can get confused about. But just be aware of again communication. How ask your partner? Do you feel like I love you? Well, yeah. When you hug me, I do. Or when you say I do. Or when you do this for me, I do. Oh, okay. Well, I thought because I like to be hugged and kissed that I was doing it the right way. So again, it's trying to break out again also going into deeper psychology here. What are your coping mechanisms? What are your barriers? If I If I want to be hugged and kissed but you've got a connection problem, which means then it's going to be really difficult for you to step into my space and make me feel cared about in the first place. So again, we would just sort of notice, I need to check in with that. Okay, I'll do what I can, but actually to do too much of that to me would feel too uncomfortable.

So it's a little bit—

I've lost you there at the moment. I need to take my barriers down to be able to do it in a different way too. So again, It's all about the communication, the self-awareness.

Yeah, let's go in. We have got a little bit more time, so let's go into communication. So positive and negative, how often, how well do we actually communicate with others, and how often and how well do we think we communicate with others?

Yeah, so we, again, it's— we probably think we communicate really well because we communicate from our own standpoint. And so, uh, you know, what we have a tendency not to do is be really positive about each other.

Gosh, yeah.

So if I do something that you like, then tell me. Again, we need to get the deeper psychology. Is it okay for me to do that? Is that opening a door which I'm not comfortable to step through? But if I notice that you're doing something that I like, Then I'm going to tell you, thank you very much, I like that. Um, you know, because we have a tendency to pick on each other a lot and tell each other all the things that we're not doing. Um, that's a lot easier for us to do.

Yeah.

We're all negatively brain biased anyway, but we've— we generally, especially under this kind of lockdown circumstances, if we're spending a lot of time around each other and we feel like things aren't really the way we want them to be, we're irritated with the whole thing, then the people close to us are going to be the ones we're going to take it out on. So if someone does something to slightly irritate us, because we're already irritated, we are going to give them a bit of negativity. Actually, can we give them some positivity? Not only will it make them feel better, but for us to be able to think about something positive makes us feel better because we'll get that hit of endorphins that go through our system. And our minds will focus on something positive out of all the negatives that might be going on. So it's really important for us, and it's really important for the people that we're with, that we are positive with one another. Yeah, not just negative.

I think, you know, like you're saying, you know, our prediction was that we're going to get into this place in lockdown where people are really going to start getting irritated with each other. And with that irritation, because we're feeling that anxiety, whatever we're feeling, that there is going to be probably a few people that are going to— a lot of people are going to burst out on their partners because that's the closest person to them. And, you know, I think the best kind of communication at this, at this present moment— I don't know if there is a best kind of communication. However, I think, like you said, it's finding that time and space to say something positive, which is not going to come easy at this time.

Mm-hmm.

It's not going to come easy because we're bombarded with all the negative stuff from the media and everyone, and we We don't— there's no— apparently we're locked down indefinitely. We don't know what's going on. There's lots of uncertainty. So a lot of people are going to feel agitated. So it's—

Definitely.

I understand it's not going to be an easy place to sit down and communicate with your partners. It is not going to be easy. But finding that positive thought, like you said, we're brainwired to have negative thoughts. How do you do that? I mean, you know, I'm always looking at a silver lining, constantly looking at silver linings in my Yeah, yeah.

I mean, like you said, uncertainty. We're in a time of uncertainty. So firstly, how can you create some certainty in your life?

That's a good one. Yeah.

Yeah, so create some certainty. So getting yourself into a routine, do things that you, you can do, focus on the things that you can do. And when, again, the positive comments— so if If you make me dinner, thank you very much, that was lovely. Don't not say anything.

Yeah, that's true. Yesterday I made dinner, and honestly, I made dinner, and after they've eaten and they put the dishes in the dishwasher, and I was like, oh, thank you, Pam, for making us dinner today. I really felt I needed to hear it.

Yeah, yeah, why not?

Yeah, why not?

That's lovely, thanks. Doesn't take a lot, and you feel appreciated. Yeah, I'm giving off something positive, so I'm in a positive frame of mind by thanking you and saying that was really nice. So that's going to do me good, it's going to do you good.

Yeah.

So again, let's pick up on all the little positives that, that we can do so that the other person feels good and you feel good at the same time. Let's try and get them into a more positive mindset. And again, let's think about what we can do rather than what we can't do. Let's create some certainty so that our brain feels more stable. And not so completely out of control.

So I'm thinking, like, you know, you and I talking, and we're kind of on the same wavelength. We understand, you know, that we've got to be positive, and, you know, it's healthy for us and it's healthy for others. There's lots of people out there who are not in that frame of mind, and they don't constantly look at what, what could make that situation or that relationship better. I don't know if people are going to be in that frame of mind to be able to to think of positive things. They've just got to, like, get out of themselves and, and get on just doing that, I suppose.

Yeah, I think the statistics say that 95% of the population just go around doing what they do.

Yeah, wow.

And I think it's really important now in this time that you can't just do what you do because you are so out of routine. You're so— this is such an exceptional circumstance. Um, but like you said, there are some people out there that will not Evening, it won't even cross their mind that they can do something differently, and they will just focus on everything that they usually focus on. So if they're negatively, in a negative frame of mind, it's going to be difficult for them to shift that unless they really want to, unless they notice that it's doing them some harm and they want to change it. I can't make you change that.

No.

No matter how positive I might be, you might still be the The saddest person or the most miserable.

You was gonna say something else, weren't you, then?

Yeah, the most negative person there is. Yeah, I can't change that. Um, so again, this is, this is really something that I need to look at within myself. So if I'm with somebody who is always moaning or constantly negative and always got a problem, watches the news all the time because they get fed by this negativity, It's really important I keep myself in a healthy space as much as possible. I know it's really difficult if you're around someone that's constantly bombarding you with negativity to remain positive. I grew up in a house like that, so I know what that's like. But for you to keep yourself as healthy as possible, so you think about the positive things. So, you know, even if you're stuck in a flat, I mean, I mean, I know it's different today because the sun's shining, but go out, just Look at the sunshine, go look at the trees that are budding, or, you know, put something, comedy on the TV, listen to something that's going to be enjoyable for you on a podcast, or just take yourself out of that negative space. Be self-aware of what you need and engage in that as often as you possibly can to keep yourself in the space that you want to be in.

That is, I think that's really healthy, really important message to do that, because, you know, everyone needs to be in that space. My son, he yesterday. He has a thing about playing badminton, so I'm constantly playing badminton. I'm sure I'm going to be fitter after all this. But he said to me something really interesting. He said, you know what? He goes, I like going with the flow of things. So I think he got himself into a really good headspace of, I'm just going to go with the flow. He goes, it's really working well for me. And obviously being in a family of like, with me constantly positive, doing affirmations with them.

Yeah.

Whether he says it consciously, I mean, normally he'll say, oh, Mum, here you go again. I don't want to talk about that, but subconsciously he's really picking up all the things I'm constantly talking about in the home and family, you know. But that was a good space, I thought, going through things.

Definitely. I mean, what is that quote? To be— give me the grace to be able to do the things I can control and let go of the things I can't control.

That's part of the AA meetings, right? That's one of the big things they do. Yeah, and that's where everybody is in at the moment. That quote is a great quote. What was it again?

So is it, give me the grace to be able to concentrate on the things I can control and let go of the things I can't control?

Yeah, I mean, that's, that should be everyone's quote at the moment. You cannot control what's going on out there, but you can control what is going on in your, in your own environment. You can control that, and not in a negative way, in a really positive way. So, you know, we've covered some really good topics there. And, you know, I think that if people take them on, I really do think that they will help them to create a really good, healthy relationship. And if they are not in a good, healthy relationship, you've given some tips to them to get through this time. Just, they've got to remove themselves and get themselves in a good mental space every single day.

Yeah. Consistency is key. Consistency is key. If you want to be positive, if you want to change things in your own life, everything's got to be consistent. It's been a consistent plan that's got you into the negative space in the first place. So to create a positive space, that needs to be consistent.

Constantly working on yourself, you know, constantly, constantly moving forward, because as human beings, we evolve, don't we? So I think a lot of the time in relationships, what I find is people talk about their relationship As from day one. But relationships are never— on day 1,000 of their relationship, it's never going to be the same. You've evolved as a human being, and that relationship has evolved. And people don't realize they need MOTs in between that all the time, just like your car would need an MOT. People don't get that in relationships. We need that.

No, that's right. I think I said 95% of the population just go around doing what they do.

Yeah.

And they don't think about actually what they want or what they actually really need to do.

Do you know what, John? As always, I love talking to you. And, you know, you know, if anybody wants your book, you know, just put it— we'll put it down. Just send me the link of what I can put down into our little section. So if anyone wants to buy your book, okay, use that to help during this time, more than happy to do so. Thank you again. Until the next time. So I look forward to speaking to you again. Thank you.