Emmi Fortin and How to Get Over a Break Up

Hello.

So my guest today is a breakup coach and author, and they help women and men process and recover from an ended relationship, the ones that are keeping them stuck So they can attract a happy and healthy relationship and live the life that they want in the future. Welcome to the show, Emmy Fortin.

Hi, John. Thank you for having me.

You're very, very welcome. It's a pleasure to have you here. I didn't include in that introduction that you're also an author. That was a very brief synopsis of who you are. So please tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself, who you are and how you help people.

Yeah, thank you. So I call myself a breakup coach because I help heartbroken women, men heal, process, recover from their ended relationship or even a toxic relationship that they might still be in but are thinking of leaving and just having trouble making that leap. And I really help them rebuild their own foundation so that they can feel confident, they can have that high self-value to be able to create the relationship that they want in the future.

Awesome. Tell us a little bit about how you go about that. How do you help someone that either is in a relationship at the moment that they're finding really difficult, or that they've had a difficult breakup that they're finding hard to recover from? How do you help them in that space?

That's a great question. Actually, people ask me all the time, how do you get over a breakup and how long does it take? And, you know, there's lots of different approaches and Similar to what people may have heard about the grief process, there's really no linear way to go about it. But I kind of stick to what I call my 3 Rs. And I've created this whole coaching program around kind of layering these 3 ideas. So the first R is reflect. So we'll spend a few weeks doing different strategies, exercises that get you to really identify all of the emotions and behaviors and thoughts and patterns that you have. The second R is release. So then we do some work around asking yourself, is this serving me? And is there a way that I could change things so that it serves me better? And then the third R is reinstall, where we kind of shift our thinking into forward thinking about who we want to be, where we want to be, what our life looks like, what our relationships look like. And so The 12 weeks are structured around those 3 different areas of personal development.

Okay, awesome. So there, there is a lot of looking at how we got to this space in the first place.

Yeah, for sure.

How we feel about being in this space now, what our thoughts are about being in this space, and then creating an idea of a relationship that you would like moving forward.

Yeah, I think any kind of growth involves our awareness around where we need to grow, what we need to learn, and I actually call my program Wake up from your breakup. And I put it in all caps because in my mind, I visualized life. This is what happened to me. I visualized life was coming up to me and literally just like smacking me across the face and saying, wake up.

Okay.

Right. And so it kind of made me ask myself the question, what am I supposed to learn about myself from this situation right now? I started to really see it more as an opportunity to change the trajectory of my own life rather than continue to do things that were leaving me to end up in the same place.

Okay, so that you created a huge self-awareness of how you'd got yourself into this relationship space in the first place.

Yeah, I think it's important. You know, people— I'm sure that you hear this all the time, and people come to me and say, you know, I've been in a bunch of relationships, but even though they're with different people, they all seem to be the same. And so I know that, you know, even you talk about in your book, we tend to repeat our patterns. And so until aware of them, how are we going to be able to change them and create something different?

Yeah, I think that's, that's vitally important, isn't it? It's all of this stuff that we do that we're completely unaware of, especially with relationships. And this is the thing I've been talking about recently with some, some, some clients, but also some colleagues, is we're not taught any of this stuff about relationships growing up at all. Like, we go to school, we learn about maths and English and science and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But no one actually sits us down and says, okay, this is the signs of a healthy relationship. This is the signs of an unhealthy relationship. These are the kind of patterns that we can reproduce based on certain things. And how do we create a healthy relationship with somebody moving forwards? We just learn it all from our environment, don't we? And the experiences that we have with the relationships that we're in. Then that forms our patterns. It forms our beliefs. It forms these ideas that we have around relationships. And nobody ever sort of takes us to one side and says, this is what a good relationship, this is what a healthy relationship looks like.

Yeah. And it's unfortunately just kind of the luck of the draw as to whether you get to emulate a healthy model in your home or not. And if you don't have that from the people who are raising you or the teachers that you have, where are you supposed to learn that? From movies? From TV? Those are not healthy either. Those are even worse. Those are like a completely fairy type of, you know, message that we're constantly inundated with of what romantic relationship looks like and, you know, how you live happily ever after. I mean, how many times are we inundated with ads for getting engaged and, you know, getting married where it's just this fairy tale day, which is great, it's fun to have that, but then what do you do after that?

Yeah. Yeah. What do you do before that? Yeah.

Yeah.

It's that kind of like making that idea in your head of what it should be. If that doesn't come from a realistic space, a healthy space, then you're going to create a relationship, which we're going to talk about a little bit about from your kind of perspective of what your book's about, about that relationship that really didn't create a lot of Healthy spaces for you.

Yeah.

Just want to come back to before we go on to that, it's just to talk about what you talk, what you want to create for people. And that was your breakup recovery period. I want to know a bit more about that. We touched on that previously when we spoke. Tell me about what that's about, that breakup recovery period.

Yeah, thank you for asking because it's, it's a term I just created, but it's, it's born out of this need and it's from my own experience as well, learning that I needed to take this not only time, but also energy and space to prioritize my own personal development and processing of what I was going through and learning more about myself in order to get clarity about where I wanted to go, self-understanding and acceptance about choices I had been making, which were also having an impact on me that maybe I didn't realize in the moment.

Yeah.

But the fact that I kept choosing unhealthy circumstances relationship-wise, dating-wise, those were also taking a toll on how I felt about myself as an individual and my own personal value and worth. So you have to spend time in that space, which can feel very icky and just hard. But the breakup recovery period, my intention with that is Spend time in that space so that you can get clear about where you're going and how you're going to get there consistently. It's all about increments. It's, you know, you don't have to do like a 180 overnight.

I guess that's what you sort of said earlier on about that grief cycle. You know, I guess a breakup is a grief, is loss, isn't it? So you're going to go through some kind of grief cycle, and I think you need to give yourself that time. To reflect on that relationship and understand the meanings behind it.

And I do want people to know that just like the grief process, you don't have to do your breakup recovery period exclusively. You know, people ask me all the time, for example, like, when can I start dating again? And I don't really have like a black and white answer for that. But what I will invite people to do is make sure that even if you do start dating, Make sure you're still doing the work within your breakup recovery period that is required. You know, because what happens when we meet someone new? We get excited, and then you know we get the butterflies, and we get all the you know beginning of the relationship feelings, and that can make us toss out like, oh, I'm fine now. Like I don't need to do that work anymore, right? And so whether you're doing it on your own and staying, you know, saying, you know what. I'm not going to date until I feel like I'm in a really balanced place. But for some people, you know, maybe having someone come into your life that is really nurturing and supportive, it could help you along the process. But the point is, don't stop. The point is keep doing it and keep going through it.

Yeah, I find that with my clients as well. It's depending on where they are as to whether it's a good idea for them to be dating again. But actually having someone like a coach holding their hand for want of a better phrase, and holding them accountable and making sure they're still working in these spaces is— I think that's quite good if they are able to date while you're working with them, because you can see what might come up. Like you said, you might start to like someone, you might get all that flush of hormones coming through your system, and you might kind of lose sight of all the work that you're doing and just lose yourself in this idea of this new relationship again. Forget what you're supposed to be looking at and all the work you've done in the last however long. To help you not to choose the same types of people again. But it's also, I find it very interesting, especially when we're in the, in the coaching period that people still have a tendency to choose the same types of people. And I think that's really good in the moment of the coaching because we can say, see what you're still attracted to. You see what you're still bringing towards you. You can see how you still feel about this energy that's, that's coming into your life. And that's the type of energy that we want to try and move away from. But like you said, if actually, if they do bring in somebody who could be the secure person that we're looking for, that's going to nurture and support and help them through their self-development and the creation of a healthy relationship, then, then why not if it's an appropriate space? Yeah.

And I love that idea of working through it real time rather than having to, okay, I know all of my stuff, I'm ready to make these changes. And then it really is a true test. You know, relationships are such a mirror. They tend to exacerbate our own personal issues. And so I think that you're absolutely right to be working with a coach while you're going through that can just be hugely helpful in the development process and your decision-making process.

Yeah, completely. So let's talk a little bit more about yourself and the book and the story of the book. I can see your book behind you. I know what it's called. If you want to tell the listeners what the name of your book and then tell us actually the story. I mean, it is a memoir, isn't it? About your own personal experience.

It is a memoir and it's called Who Is Your Red Dress? One Woman's Quest to Break Up with a Love Addiction. And so people will be like, what do you mean, who, who is your red dress? And it's not giving the story away. It's the whole basis of the story to tell you that the red dress is a metaphor for a man. I have been a salsa dancer for probably 17, 18 years now, and I met a man in the salsa dancing scene here in Boston. We ended up having this very rollercoaster, passionate, on and off relationship for about 6 years. In addition to all of the uncertainty of what I call a situationship, we did also go through numerous breakups with each other over and over again.

Okay.

And so we had both been repeating that cycle, which creates a whole bunch of elements, um, you know, a dynamic that I couldn't pull myself out of for a very long time. And so this red dress symbolizes, you know, the urge and need to want to wear it. You know, you want to feel sexy, and it makes you feel so good. And at the same time, it's really tight and binding, and you can't breathe and move the way you want to. You know, you take it off and you're like, oh, like, I'm so glad I just took that off. I'm so much more comfortable, you know, but then you see it hanging right there in your closet and you're like, oh man, I can't wait to wear it again. I remember how good I felt when I put it on, you know, the lady in red.

Okay, great. Oh, that's a great metaphor, isn't it? For what it sounds like the relationship that you went through, there were times when you felt on top of the world. Confident, cared about, passionate. And then there are other times when you just felt very restricted and claustrophobic, and you just needed to get out of that relationship. You need to get that dress off.

Exactly.

But like you said, it was never gone. It was always— you'd come across it as you were going for something else in your closet that you were looking for to wear, and it would just be there, and, and you'd get drawn straight back into the idea of putting it back on again.

Exactly. Yeah, it was something, you know, the, the whole relationship at times, for anybody who's experienced a devastating breakup, I mean, you would go from feeling completely broken, you know, I mean, I remember like literally lying on my living room floor in the fetal position, like clenching my heart and crying so much, to then having these like euphoric highs.

Yeah.

And so those peaks and dips were just creating this entourage of emotions. Um, and I started to live out every day of my life in this heightened state of anxiety because of all the uncertainty around it.

Okay. And was that something that you experienced prior to this relationship? Because generally, like you said, there's a pattern to The kind of people that we attract into our lives or are attracted to. Was this just like a really bad example or a really extreme example of things that you'd been through before? Or did this fit a pattern of relationships that you'd already experienced?

Yeah, I had experienced this pattern actually in my earlier years, right around like college age. It was like my first really long-term relationship, but that one was on and off as well. Okay. Um, but then I went into a very stable long-term relationship. But at some point, I felt very disconnected in that. And then I felt like there was no passion. And it just kind of like started being very monotone. And so because, like I say, the breakup recovery period is important, because at the end of that relationship, I did not give myself time or space to really process what happened in there, right? I immediately sought a relationship that filled me with passion and life and vibrance again, right? And it was just so easy to fall into that because it's what I needed in that moment versus acknowledging that this was actually something I had to rebuild in myself, and I was seeking it outwardly from this man and from our experience together.

Yeah, it's interesting there for the listeners. You just said needed in inverted commas. Can you, can you explain why you put needed then? You said it's something that you needed. Can you explain why you put that in inverted commas there?

Yeah, I put it in air quotes because I think, um, when you haven't reached a place where you're really self-aware, I think it can be confusing to identify what your true core needs are. Versus what you feel like you need in that moment. Sometimes those things can overlap. However, in my case, and I do see this with clients as well, if you tend to have— I'll call it like a deficit in yourself in a certain area— it can be very easy to try to fill that deficit through something outside of yourself. And so people could mistakenly identify that as a need.

Mm-hmm.

when really it is a need, but you need to kind of do more of the work to fill it in yourself first.

Yeah.

So that you can, you know, come as an equal to a partnership versus relying on that other person and really setting an unrealistic expectation of what that person means for you or what they're going to do for you. Because what is love? I mean, love is not I found a person who's going to do all the things for me that I need.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Most definitely. Now, I like to think of love as someone who comes in and kind of complements your life rather than completes your life.

Yes. Right.

And if they're complementing you and you're not quite whole yourself, then there was, like you said, there's going to be some deficiencies there that you need to work on. There's a counseling term and it comes up quite a lot in the talks and interviews that I do. It's called your external locus of evaluation. So actually you're only validating yourself and evaluating yourself by all the external things that go on in your life and nothing is coming from the inside. So we need to switch that to an internal mechanism in order to evaluate and validate ourselves internally. And the person that we want to have in our lives is just going to, they don't, we don't need them to fill that space. And as you said, you came out of that long-term relationship where you felt it was quite Monotone and had gone a bit stale and you needed somebody else to create that excitement for you.

Right.

And that's what the relationship you ended up going into.

Yeah. And I mean, I even, I don't know where I said it. I said it either in the book or on social media somewhere, but oh boy, did I get the passion, but not in a way that I was prepared to handle because it really, you know, the passion turned into just drama, which, you know, I essentially was creating for myself. I, for, for years, I blamed him, right? He was always the villain. He was always the one doing things to set me off and, you know, trigger me.

Yeah.

But I was the one who was creating my own drama, because I could have walked away from that at any time. And yet I chose to keep returning. And so it wasn't until I took that radical responsibility of my role in that dynamic, which honestly came through writing the memoir. But I was able to process so much just from writing the story. And also writing it from a third-person perspective allowed me to step out of my own life as my inner voice and me and really view the 2 characters and how they were interacting. And sometimes I would even laugh while I was writing part— I'm like, that's so silly. Like, it's so clear when you're watching from the outside.

Yeah.

What's going on, right?

But then it's like you're looking at it and going, that's so silly, and I'm doing that.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like when you watch a movie, you know, you have these 2 characters that are going through this like heated moment in their lives together, but you're watching it and you're like, well, clearly she's doing that because of this and he's doing that because of that. But it's because you have that back seat Yeah, yeah, you're not in it.

Yeah, yeah, you're not your emotions. I do say that it's when your emotions get involved, you're pretty screwed because they overtake, don't they? The emotions, the hormones, that that kind of space that we go into, it just creates an irrationality. And like you said, if you were looking at someone else doing that, you'd be like, "What are you doing?" You know, you need to leave this well alone because it's it's it's. It's damaging you beyond, beyond your comprehension. But when you're in it and your emotions are in it, and like you said, your needs are in it, and, and there's these insecurities and things missing within you, you're just driven to keep this kind of thing going, aren't you?

So just as like a little back history as well, I was a high school biology teacher for 16 years, and I love like learning about the physiology of, you know, living things and humans in particular. And so what you're speaking about It's not just, you know, your thoughts. It's like this whole cascade of physiology that's happening. And I was just reading a study the other day that, you know, if you have cortisol levels, which is the hormone released when you have a stress response, when those are elevated for too long, there are some studies that show it can actually change your brain and how you are able to make decisions. In some cases, it actually increases people's, um, like risk-taking when making a decision. You know, we can kind of generally say, oh, emotions cloud your thinking, but it's not just like a metaphor. It's, it's physiological. Your chemical makeup is changing.

Yeah, yeah.

There's another study that shows that heartbroken people, if you take an MRI image of their brain, it's similar To those of people who are experiencing cocaine withdrawals.

Okay.

So there are serious things going on within your physical self. And I think for me, even just knowing that allowed me to have a little bit of grace with what my behavior was.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it was very powerful.

I like to think of it like an urge or a compulsion, isn't it? There's just— your body is telling you to do something. And even though you've had a good talking to yourself, and the thoughts are generally they're all right, you know you can think straight, and you're saying I know that what I need to do, I know what's the best thing for me to. I know that's really bad for me, and I'm not going to go back there. Then then your body gets this overwhelming urge to go and do something that you that again is just going to put you straight back into that space again, which you don't want to be in. And like you said, the hormones play such a massive part. I did a couple of I think I've talked about it on. the podcast about trauma bonding. Um, I guess when you're in it again with you, with this up and down roller coaster type relationship, you're getting a smash of good, good feel-good hormones, and you're getting this smash of really negative feeling, lousy hormones. And then your body doesn't know what to do when that's not there.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, you're trying to break away, but you're, you're chasing that hit again of something, aren't you? And your, your body craves this this hormonal release that you've got so used to experiencing. And to be aware of that, like you said, I think it's really important because it gives you an understanding of, I can see why I'm doing this. It's not because I'm stupid. It's not because, you know, it's just I can't control it. My body's telling me to do one thing and I just need to make sure that I tell it to do something else.

Yeah. And I'm glad that you said that because I did feel really Disappointed in myself all the time, because I knew the whole time that you know I knew what was happening. You know I knew I was in this cycle, and I was disappointed all the time with myself that I wouldn't just take myself out of it. I compare it to even gambling. You know my behavior was like that of a gambler because you know every week when we were broken up, I would go to the salsa club and. Well, I'd be taking a gamble. It's like, is he going to be there? Is he not going to be there? Are we going to talk? Are we not going to talk? We're going to get back together, are we not? And even though I knew it would be really bad for me if he was there, you would think you would be like, oh good, he's not here. Like, this is, this is healthy for me.

Yeah.

I would feel disappointed.

Yeah.

Deflated. Yeah. Right. And it's just like, you never know what's going to happen. No, you could win, you could crash.

You could temporarily win, perhaps.

Exactly.

Definitely gonna crash.

In the long run, the house always wins, right?

Yeah, that's a very good saying. Yes, the house always wins. Um, so how did you kind of— so you did a lot of kind of looking at yourself. How do you— how did you break away from that draw? That urge and compulsion. How did you manage to break away from that and say, I'm not going back to this anymore?

Yeah, it was tough and it was a process. And, um, you know, there were times when I would make advances and then times when I would fall back. And I always would, I would even tell myself like, oh, another relapse, you know. However, there was that very clear moment for me. And it was actually the one I told you about where I was lying on my floor, like heaving, crying.

Right.

Um, but I stopped because I all of a sudden just got this really clear message that said, you are keeping yourself here. The reason why you are here bawling your eyes out on your floor is because you are choosing to do so.

Right.

And actually, like, giggled, and I was like, that's— this is so dumb. Like, I have my life to pretty much together in like every other area. Yeah, you know, I've got a great job, I've got a great family, I've got awesome friends. I am an intelligent woman who's competent in all these things. Why am I on my living room floor crying, you know, after years and years? So in that moment, I made a decision that I was going to do whatever I needed to do to start helping myself rebuild. I mean, I even thought about it just like Emmy, it's brick by brick. I'm just going to build up your building, you know? And that's what I started to do. I started to learn all about different practices that will help you calm your nervous system. You know, I'm a big yoga person. I started a 21-day meditation challenge, you know, just started to do things that I knew would help myself, even if I wasn't, quote unquote, good at them yet, as long as I was doing it with consistency.

Mm-hmm.

And the biggest thing, which is a chapter in my book, is I decided to go on a solo trip to Spain.

Right.

And I not only needed this to physically distance myself from this person, but I really needed to do something that I— where I could prove to myself that I could be independent, that I could be competent, that I could Do something I really didn't think I could do. I mean, I had never even taken the Boston subway by myself, and I was gonna go to a new country where I didn't speak the language yet. Never taken a subway. I mean, all of it. And let me tell you, John, I am not a good navigational person. Like, following directions is just like speaking German to me. Like, I don't speak German, and it's just—

Yeah.

You know, someone's like, just look at a map. I'm like, that doesn't help me.

I don't— Yeah, it doesn't function in that way.

Oh yeah, I had so many challenges on that trip, but I did all of it, and that was extremely empowering for me to be able to make some shifts in my mind about how I saw myself and how I was going to kind of deal with my life moving forward.

I get you. Like you said, you proved to yourself that you could, you could put yourself into an extreme circumstance and be okay. You could rely on yourself.

So many circumstances where I was so far out of my comfort zone, right? But that is required. And I, I tell my clients, this is, you know, we have a whole like 4 weeks of strategies on stepping outside of your comfort zone because, as you know, you mentioned it in your book, is we are drawn to things that are familiar. And so you have to push yourself to do things that are unfamiliar because it's uncomfortable.

Yeah.

But when you can start getting used to doing uncomfortable things, it allows you to be able to create new opportunities and paths for yourself.

Thank you. It's also that uncomfortable becomes comfortable as well. I was talking to a client about this the other day about trying to engage in the relationship with their partner. Because they had a very unhealthy upbringing full of abuse, of sexual abuse, physical abuse. And they found— they're finding now at their age, in their later 40s, that they've actually withdrawn a lot more now than they were when they were younger. The fear of intimacy, the fear of being close to someone, and it feels so uncomfortable. Um, but like you said, with, with someone they can completely trust, that's not gonna hurt them, abuse them, or use anything. And they completely know that about their partner, that this person is there for them and will keep them safe. But they have this block in themselves to be uncomfortable. And so we've been working on that. It's slightly making you slightly uncomfortable. Just, you know, you know, we go through some phases of creating intimacy. And that's the more they're doing it, the more comfortable they're becoming. And they're recognizing that this uncomfortable space is, again, it's just something they've made up in their own mind. But based on their experiences from the past, you can completely see why their brain is trying to keep them familiar and keep them safe and keep them in, in the space that they've always put themselves into. But it is trying to become, like you said, you go out there, you've done that, you know, you could do that again because you've got an experience, an example. You can go, actually, no, that was, that was a bit crazy, but I did it and it was great. And, and I learned so much and I don't need to feel as uncomfortable. I might feel a little bit uncomfortable if I decide to do something like that again, but at least I know I've experienced that now and it's, and I can be okay in that space.

Exactly. And it, you know, it doesn't have to be something as drastic as that. It was that opportunity. Plus I went for, you know, the first time I went, I went for 3 weeks. And so going back to the breakup recovery period, like, you know, the 3 weeks isn't very long. However, At that time in my life, 3 weeks was a really long time.

For sure.

And so even just giving myself that 3 weeks to totally focus on my own stuff and not constantly spend every, you know, minute of my day worrying about what that other person was doing or what was going on with us and bringing that focus back to me for that allotted period of time was tremendous.

And how much salsa-ing did you do in Spain?

How much what?

Did you do much salsa dancing in Spain?

Oh, yeah. Every time I go anywhere, I always check out the salsa community and the salsa nights because it really is kind of like a home away from home. All the salsa nights are pretty similar in every city, even if you're in a different country. I've danced in Amsterdam, I've danced in Colombia, Cuba. Spain. And yeah, it's, it's like an easy way to know that you can go somewhere alone and feel comfortable as long as you're, you know, you're careful and safe. Like, yeah, it's an environment that I am familiar with.

Like one of your kind of space where you know where you are, where you're at in that.

Yeah. Yeah.

When I went to Spain, I went to flamenco for the first time.

Oh yeah. Nice.

I'd loved— that's one of my things. I know it's been a few years since I went, but it was still— it's still on my to-do Is to learn to learn it. Learn flamenco.

Yeah. Nice.

Fascinating. Absolutely intoxicating. In fact, I found it. It was just, and I just thought I'd love to do that. And I've got really fast legs because I used to be a sprinter. So I thought my legs can move that fast as well. So I definitely need to have a look into this because it's something that I'd find really not only fascinating and I think intoxicating within myself, but Fitness and things are very important to me and, and, and to keep my fast twitch fibers moving around. I think it would be great.

Yeah, dance is great for that. And they also have studies that show that, you know, choreographed dances actually really help your brain functioning. Even for people with, you know, like it's, it helps to prevent like dementia later in life. Alzheimer's is these because you're in Integrating, learning a new thing with the kinesthetics of movement.

I'm definitely gonna have to find somewhere.

Great time to learn how to dance.

So yes, yes, definitely. Um, slightly off topic, but, um, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. If people want to get in touch with you, um, how do they reach out to, to get in touch with ME14?

Yeah, I would love to hear from anybody. You can email me at info@emmifortin.com. You can check out my website, www.emmifortin.com, and I have a few free downloads. One of the things that we actually were talking about today was learning where your deficits might be before you hop into a relationship. So I have a free download called the Relationship Cheat Sheet, and even though you're filling it out To design, as you, if you will, like your ideal partner. The idea is that you actually then take it and you flip it and turn it on yourself as a mirror. Am I all of these qual— do I have all these characteristics? How I want to feel in a relationship, am I already making myself feel that way in my own daily life? Things like that.

Okay, so do you live up to the same kind of level of the person that you want to bring into your life? And I think that's, that's a very important thing, isn't it? Because we generally will attract people in, in the way that we see ourselves as well, you know. So if we're bringing in someone that's going to criticize us or not be particularly complimentary, that's generally because if we look at ourselves in the mirror, we're saying a lot of that stuff to ourselves.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, great. So that's great. If you want to get a hold of those freebies, do visit Emmy's website, and Emmy is E-M-M-I, Fortin is F-O-R-T-I-N. Do go to her website, have a look at the freebies that she's offering. Before we finish up today, do you have a favorite quote or some words of wisdom that you would like to leave with the listeners today?

Yeah, I was thinking about it. And I actually want to share something that a psychic told me once. And it's such a It's a chapter in my book, that psychic conversation. And she said, make sure to turn your lighthouse light on and shine bright.

Okay.

And it really helps you to, to think about how you are attracting what you want into your life based on how you think, feel, and behave. And so You are a beacon and you can attract the thing that you want if you do the work.

Awesome. Couldn't agree more. Thank you, Emmy, for your time today. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. I'm sure there are things that listeners are going to resonate with and hopefully be able to take away and think about their own relationships and the things that have got them into the spaces that they might be in right now, have previously been in before, and How they can think about that in a different way to change the pattern of their relationships and bring that light that they need towards them.

Exactly. Thank you so much.

You take care and I'll speak to you soon.