The Menopause and Perimenopause with Jacky Wood

My guest today is a licensed menopause champion with the Menopause Experts Group Limited and offers guidance and encouragement to people who want to learn how to support themselves through hormonal fluctuations during perimenopause and the menopause. It's everyone's experience to be unique and learning ways to cope is empowering and motivating. Welcome to the show, Jacqui Wood.

Thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me, John.

Absolutely. Pleasure to have you here. It's a fascinating topic. I know it's in the news, been in the news a fair bit recently too. So I'd like to get your take on it, definitely. But please, first of all, just tell the listeners more about yourself. What you do and how you help.

Yeah. Well, I think the reason I'm doing what I do and helping as much as I can is because my own experience, which was very challenging to say the least. And my perimenopause began quite early by average terms. So I was 43 when my perimenopause started. Perimenopause means the years leading up to menopause and menopause is just one day. Perimenopause is the symptomatic time, usually the most symptomatic time of the transition as a whole. And what's happening to a woman is she's losing her hormones that she's been operating beautifully on for many years.

Yeah.

So that started with me because I'm a woman. And so the same thing happened to me as it does with 51% of the population of the globe. But in some cases, for some people, it can be, actually, I don't know what all the fuss is about. You know, I just got a bit warm one day.

Yeah.

And for others, so kind of 5% of women roughly get it really bad and it can affect their lives so drastically. So I was in that 5% club. It means that it affects your every waking minute. It affects how you operate on a daily basis, really affects your work, your relationships, your social life. Physically, emotionally, cognitively, everything you can imagine. And, and that's not to frighten people because that really is extreme. And for the most part, you know, probably 75% of women can get their solutions fairly simply and spend the rest of their lives happily supporting themselves with knowledge or support from supplements, deciding on, depending on what they want to take, or HRT. Again, it's all a personal choice. But my journey lasted about 20 years. So for the first 10 years, I was very confused, angry, resentful, upset, in denial, totally in denial. Because for me at that time, it was when I first realized what was happening, I just thought it was something that happened to older women and I didn't feel old enough.

Right, yeah.

I got that wrong. So menopause is not an age thing, it's a hormone thing and it can happen, you know, to people at any time. And so for the first 10 years, I did everything wrong that you can think of. I was eating wrong, I was drinking too much, I wasn't doing my exercise and dancing that I'd been doing. I was in a bad relationship, I was in bad work, just everything was going wrong. And also my mother was getting dementia. And so kind of life events were happening.

Mm-hmm.

I'd come to the end previously of a 16-year relationship that had a very toxic end. So kind of things were piling up. And as it kind of happens a lot to people at midlife where, you know, kids are growing up, parents are getting older, you know, the women might have a responsible job, they've got husbands or partners, they're looking after the house, they're running the show. And then life events happen and then menopause comes along and it's gone, blimey, you know, what else can go wrong? For some people it can be a real shit show. So kind of for me, that's how it was. I had a very unsupportive partner and round about year 11, year 12, maybe a little bit after that, I moved away from the partner, I moved away from the job, I moved away from where I was living. I completely changed my life.

Interesting.

That's when I started to rebalance myself. And that's where my learning really started in terms of how I could go on and help people because of my own experience. I think we're all, you know, we all experience things for a reason. And I certainly think that all those years I had of punishing myself and going through some horrible experiences has been a gift for me to take forward and do what I do now.

Oh yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. I mean, that's, that's, it's hard, hard to comprehend actually going through something like that for 20 years. But it was, again, you, you, through the, like you said, the first 11 or 12 years, you were just experiencing everything. So there wasn't really, you don't feel like you kind of had any ability to change anything, any control over anything. And like you said, you were in denial about what was happening to your body. There was all this other stuff going on at work and your relationships sound that they were pretty Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was all happening. And, you know, I think often when we're in a state of feeling that we can't control what's going on externally, we feel that numbing ourselves is probably better. So we kind of don't face up to what's really happening because it's just all too much. But towards the end of that time, I reached a point where, well, I'm either going to check out completely, which was a consideration at the time, or I'm going to do something about it because I really felt like I was I really wanted to carry on and I wanted to use the experience. I wanted to improve, get better, live life again. I'd gone in, I'd really shrunk my life and shrunk everything. So it became a time for me of, it was rebirthing really. I made brand new connections and I actually made brand new connections with a lot more women. And kind of up to that point in my life, I much preferred the company of men. I thought they were more fun. They weren't as bitchy.

Right.

They had much more interesting things to talk about. That was just kind of how I was.

Right.

But when I started to form friendships with women and communities of women, I learned what massive support that I could get from them and that I could give and I could contribute as well. And it felt like a much more kind of warm and welcoming place to be. I felt less like I had to be performing, you know, on my best behavior. I felt I could be more naturally me. And I think that was kind of half the trouble when I was in perimenopause. I got to a point in my life where I'd been a people pleaser, and, you know, I felt that I had to conform to certain programming that I'd grown up with in work and in relationships and in friendships and what have you. And You know, dressing a certain way and acting a certain way and just my whole demeanor. And those later years enabled me to realize who I really wanted to be. And I, it was a much more relaxed and easy place to be. It's a work in progress, actually.

Yeah, I think we're all a work in progress, but that definitely sounds like it'd be a much, much easier life to feel that you can just be yourself. And like you said, not try and conform to expectation and try and That you're not in order to try to fit into some kind of mold that you're trying to fit into. Was that because you started to look at yourself a bit? Like you said, you got to that point where you realized you wanted to do something about this. You didn't want to feel like this anymore. You got yourself out of your relationship. You completely kind of switched your life around.

Mm-hmm.

Did you have that recognition that you didn't want to keep being something for somebody else? Before that, or was that something that came after you'd kind of, kind of got out of that toxicity that you were in?

A bit of both really, because in the relationship that I left after 11, 12 years, I'd probably been in that relationship for about 4 years too long. And having talked to a lot of people at midlife, that seems a very common thing actually. And I think through that whole time, I was more about, I've got to hold this together, you know, need to keep the equilibrium and earn a certain amount of money, and I don't want to appear as a failure.

Okay.

And then in the end, I just didn't give a damn. I thought, no, I've got to do this for my sanity, really. And I think when I got to that point, I realized I'd have to change everything about my life or I just wasn't going to survive, really. And when I came to that realization, it was like a light bulb moment. It was one night, I was, I was yet again at my bedroom window.

I say my bedroom window because we'd been sleeping separately for a while.

separately for years and crying, crying up to the night sky very dramatically.

Why?

Yes, I know, I know. In fact, at the time it felt very dramatic. And then I kind of had this light bulb and I thought, you know what, Jack, do something about this. I think I kind of felt a certain entity or something in the room because I'm a bit woo-woo. I'm very woo-woo actually. And I just felt a strength, just a spark of strength inside me.

Mm-hmm.

Thought, you're gonna do this. You're gonna tell them that we can't do this anymore. I'm gonna find somewhere to live, and that's gonna be my first step. One step at a time to change everything. And that's how I did it, just one step at a time. But I felt my strength returning, and I felt a courage inside me that I'd never felt before. Didn't know I could Do all of that. Although I had been a very independent person, I thought, I think I felt a massive difference in my level of independence once I made that decision. And I didn't look back, I just carried on.

And again, you said at the start that you, you hit perimenopause early in life. And you had, you went into some kind of denial. I guess it is a tough Realization, isn't it, to know that this is, this is a massive, going to be a massive change in your life moving forward?

Yeah. I mean, you know, there, there wasn't the information that there is out there now. There's masses, you know, we can go to all sorts of websites and forums, Facebook groups, British Menopause Society, Balance. There are some amazing resources out there. But there's also quite a bit of rubbish, but at least there's something for people to grasp onto. And generally speaking, we know somebody that knows a bit about menopause that we can start a conversation with anyway. But back then, there was nothing. And I kind of had to find my way, if you will. I had to leaf through what I was feeling, but I didn't really know. I didn't join the dots up that perimenopause could make you feel so bad.

Right. Okay.

So people kind of talk about hot flushes. It's not just about hot flushes. There's so much more. And some women don't even get them anyway. But I was getting sort of 6 and 7 an hour. Now, just that one thing alone, because I would perspire from top to toe with these. So I'd start the day off Showered, hair done, makeup. By about 10 o'clock, kind of all that was gone. The hair had gone flat, the makeup had melted away, and I would feel really grubby because I've been sweating so much.

Mm-hmm.

And the worst thing about it was as well, I was in a, a job, quite a responsible position, and I was in an office with people who were a lot younger than me as well. And I felt embarrassed and I felt, I felt kind of, felt very old, you know, in all honesty. Even though there was probably about 10 years between us.

Yeah.

And in my mind, because I'd never spoken to my mum about it and I've never really spoken to anybody about it, to be honest. In my mind, I was completely on my own in the whole world suffering these symptoms and who else was talking about it? Where was I going to get any help? You know, I just didn't know who to turn to. And I felt desperate. And I felt, oh, all these horrible things. And this went on for months, you know. And I found my confidence at work really diminishing. And my self-esteem was going, you know, up to this point, I had had responsible jobs that I felt I could handle really easily.

Yeah.

And all that confidence was, was Just washing away with all this sweat on a daily basis and not pleasant at all. And, you know, I just thought everybody was looking at me and all I wanted to do was dive under the desk and never come out again. Yeah.

Yeah. Really hard to function in that space.

Really hard to function. Anxiety went through the roof. Depression started to come. I didn't want to get out of bed in the mornings. When I got home at night with the partner I wasn't happy with, just open a bottle of wine.

Right.

Because that could help me numb.

Yeah.

I wasn't eating well and I'd lost all self-care. You know, after sort of 2 or 3 years of this, I thought, oh, you know, what's the point? I just feel horrible. And I don't want to go to work. I don't want that job. I don't want to face people. Didn't want to go outside the front door. So it That is extreme for me. As I say, you know, I am one of the extreme ones, but there's a hell of a lot of women that do go through that. And this is where women in that position need a bit more guidance and help and education than those perhaps that are like, I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Yeah, for sure. I can tell that it was a complete mindset shift required. But again, like you said, not only were you going through the physical sensations and stuff of perimenopause, but I guess What do you think, what kind of impact did it have on you, the fact that your hormones were changing, not just the physical outward signs? What do you think was actually going on inside with those changes?

Yeah, so what happens is, in, if we talk about the average time of life that menopause occurs, so between 45 and 55. So perimenopause generally comes along at 45 and over. I started mine at 43. So it's considered slightly early. But then what's happening leading up Our hormone, our main hormone that is our operating system and it's our CEO is estrogen.

Mm-hmm.

And estrogen has receptors, sorry, our cells have receptor sites for estrogen. Every single one of our cells, we've got 30 trillion cells, every one of them has a receptor for estrogen amongst a whole host of other things. But estrogen therefore runs through our body and it is our OS, it's our operating system. And therefore, when it starts to decrease, it can affect anywhere and everywhere or nowhere consciously.

Okay.

What's happening though, John, it is affecting us. So as this hormone decreases along with other hormones that are decreasing, we may not consciously be aware of that happening until we get to the perimenopause that we start to notice And it's when the symptoms start to happen. So we might start to feel some anxiety or hot flushes. We might get headaches where we didn't before. We might start to get aches and pains. We might start to get more thirst. We might notice our hair falling out. We might notice our eyes are dry. We might notice that sex is more painful because things are going on in the pelvic area. We might notice that we are losing confidence. You know, there's so many symptoms. They used to say there's 34 symptoms. Well, that's a joke because there's way more because it can affect every single cell in the body. So I might get an ache in my right big toe and never have another thing wrong that I notice, you know, but that could be attributed to the fact that my estrogen's dropping.

Right.

We'd never know because I'm unlikely to go to the doctors with that and say, can you test my hormones? I think I'm perimenopausal because I've got a pain in my toe.

Yeah.

That's extreme. But so often we don't join the dots and think, okay, you know, this is happening to me. I wonder if it could be perimenopause. And at the moment, there are still a lot of healthcare practitioners that don't consider that our problems could be hormonal.

Okay.

So for instance, if I turn up with heart palpitations, they might send me for an ECG. If I turn up with lower back pain, they might want to send me for some sort of rheumatic test or an X-ray or something like that. If I'm getting constant migraines, they might want to send me for a scan. And all these different scans, they might want to give me different blood tests for other complaints I might have. But what's emerging more and more with, with a lot more research that's happening is that a lot can be attributed to perimenopause effects. So the effects of our estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone actually decreasing.

Right.

Because as men and women and everyone else, we've all got a mixture of all these hormones, many, many other hormones as well. And they affect us all differently. And this is where, you know, we need to speak to somebody who really knows what they're talking about in terms of healthcare and where we're going to take that, because it needs to be somebody that's familiar with what happens to the body when the hormones start to decrease. So when I got to that point, I had no idea that it was decreasing estrogen and other things that was affecting my body so, so badly. So I couldn't know what I could do about it. For instance, hot flushes. I was so dehydrated the whole time.

Yeah.

And although I was drinking a bit of water, I wasn't drinking nearly enough like that. And I was so dehydrated. And it really is important to, you know, if you're thirsty, you're already dehydrated. So you would keep that, that, that water intake going, that hydration going in. But dehydration can affect us in myriad ways. You know, it's, it dries the skin, it dries the joints, it dries the muscles, it dries the tissue through our body. It dries our eyes, our nose, our vagina. It's, it's You know, it's something that is really important in our body. And that is the effect of estrogen and other hormones decreasing to a certain extent.

Okay. Wow. Okay. It's definitely something for, again, it's, it may be then it needs to be thought of as a first thought rather than a secondary thought. Like you said, if you've got an ache and a pain or something here and something there, Like you said, automatically people will put it down to something muscular or whatever it might be and send you off for certain tests here and stuff.

Yeah.

In that case, I guess when you get to a certain age and you might start experiencing these different things within your body, I think, is it then to think about menopause as being the first thing to think about rather than the last thing to think about?

I think it definitely shouldn't be the last thing to think about. Whether it's the first thing to think about depends on one or two things. Yeah, okay, so you might be getting new symptoms, and a lot of people say, oh, that's what you get when you're getting older. And—

Hmm.

Okay, that is one consideration, but getting older and losing these hormones at the same time can be counteracted. And in many, many cases, people that have supported themselves in whatever way they decide have found that those complaints, those issues, challenges have disappeared. So it's not always acceptable to say, oh, it's just a part of getting older, because there's lots we can do to, in inverted commas, reverse that. It takes work. It takes a little bit of time and a bit of effort. But the main thing is it takes consideration of self. You know, have the motivation to give that gift to yourself. And I think the best thing to do is speak to people that know a bit. So I'm one of those. I know a bit about it.

Yeah.

And once we reach a point where, okay, you're having these aches and pains and they weren't there before, are you getting any other symptoms? And often when we deep dive, there are one or two other things showing up as well. So that's kind of an indication it could be perimenopause.

Yeah.

And then we can look at the symptoms.

Yeah.

The ultimate is to speak to a healthcare practitioner that knows their stuff. So if there is a need for a test, then they can do that test. And generally they won't do tests and blood tests after 45 because a clinical diagnosis can often reveal what's going on. Prior to 45, they might do a blood test. Again, it depends on the knowledge of the healthcare professional. And I always say, if you're going to do a blood test, make sure they have got a special interest in menopause, or get an appointment with somebody who is a menopause specialist.

Yeah.

And when you go, make sure that you're armed with all your facts about yourself, you know, what's going on and what's been going on, perhaps for a month, 2 months, so that you can really go with as much information as possible. Because other things can come into play, like thyroid issues can, can affect menopause. be very similar to perimenopause symptoms as well. But that is something that a healthcare professional, doctor, or a nurse, perhaps, would know what to look for. So, I think it's a consideration, but not necessarily the only reason. So, the whole picture needs to be looked at.

Yeah, but definitely something to keep on the table rather than over something that's overlooked By the sounds of it, quite regularly. You've talked about how you help people. So you're a menopause— sorry, I forget what it was, right?

Champion.

I was going to say advocate then, and I know that's not the right word. But it is, I guess you are a menopause advocate anyway. But you've mentioned before when we spoke about working with the other work that you do with couples, and also I'm very interested how, because you didn't have the support, No. So it's incredibly important, I guess, you do have the support. How does this impact on relationships?

My experience was one, again, that was a gift. You know, it taught me so well how things can be so bad. To put it in a nutshell, in an ideal relationship, we communicate well together, you know, on all levels, don't we? You know, with all aspects. But when a woman is reaching perimenopause, she can often change so drastically, she becomes unrecognisable. So the partner, you know, if it's a male partner, they don't even know what it's like to have a period, be pregnant, get perimenopause, let alone know what all these changes must feel like. They do not stand a chance. And I feel very sorry for people that, you know, don't have those experiences and are trying to understand and support their partner. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And then women who find themselves in that situation and that perhaps don't address it early on could be getting worse thinking it's gonna go away, I'll get better, I'll sort it out myself, and then don't, can often get to the point where they're screaming inside and really don't know how to articulate what they're feeling 'cause it's so alien.

Right.

It's so different to how they felt before. My own example is I absolutely danced through life until I got to 43 and there were Wow, did it all go tits up! And I was just shocked into another way of life. And at that time, I was just coming out of a relationship, and it wasn't until much later I went into another one, and my worst years came along, and I wasn't getting the support, which was— it was so upsetting and destructive because I wanted cuddles when I wanted them. I just wanted to be able to cry and know that I wasn't going to be judged. And I got judged.

Right. Okay.

What's wrong with you? And that's kind of the— what's wrong with you implies there's something wrong with you. And when I used to get a hot flush, if we were in bed in the earlier years, you know, ooh, you know, that's— you're really sticky. I don't like it. It was— so I got hurt a lot by those comments and completely unsupported. And that wants me that drives me to work with couples because I want to be able to speak to couples on an even basis. So, so often we've got advocates, champions, mentors for women, and then we've got people that speak to men. And I want to speak to men and women or women and women equally so that they they both get a chance to say exactly how they feel. I'm not a relationship coach or a sex therapist, but I really deeply understand what it's like to be misunderstood and not be able to articulate, and then for somebody else to not know what the hell's going on. Where do I begin with this? You know, how am I going to talk to her? How can I understand what's happening? You said to me at the top of this, you know, that I just, I'm probably not gonna know most of what you're gonna talk about.

Yeah.

And I really, really get that. So I want to help couples to understand each other and, and, you know, kind of fill in those, those gaps because she will be saying, how can I explain to him just how bad this feels? And also, how can I tell him that, Most of the time I just don't want sex, or I want to be on my own, or I just want to be allowed to go off and scream or cry. But I still love him so much, or her. You know, the love in my heart is just the same. But sometimes I really need this space so that I can sort myself out. And, you know, and in talking to people, we can sort that out.

Yeah.

Find out what the initial most important needs are so they can be met. And so that then he feels, or he or the other partner, because if it's the same sex, if it's 2 women, they don't necessarily go through it at the same time. And if you get one in the 5% and one in the other 25% who are like, what's all the fuss about?

Well, yeah, I guess that could be more difficult in some Circumstances, kind of, because at least a guy will go, I have no idea, never gonna go through this. Um, so, you know, I'm all ears. Whereas another woman might go, well, actually, I'm going through it as well, and I don't really get what you're going through. So, yeah, I don't understand this. But again, I can't maybe necessarily try and be in your experience with you because they're not experiencing the same thing.

That's right. And that's, that's a dynamic that you can get. It's completely different. But, you know, and everything in between really. And partners, you know, if there is love between the couple, then that's enough to go on. That's all we need.

Yeah, I guess there's also that, like you said, someone being able to put themselves into your shoes, like your ex-partner clearly had, was far too self-centered to think about how their comments might affect be affecting you, or how their behavior might be affecting you, and just couldn't be there to support you at all.

Yeah. And then that's where the hurt comes. And because I was already feeling destroyed in so many ways, you know, I'd run myself into the ground through, um, being in denial and not really knowing what was going on and doing all the things wrong nutritionally and socially, um, through movement. I wasn't doing anything. Anything he said was like another knife in my back or in my heart or something.

Yeah.

So I was at a very weak place, but I really do believe, John, that all of this has been such a gift. And I'm, I'm not saying any of it for sympathy. I'm just looking at it as an observer now. I'm thinking, oh my God, how is it for people? And the statistics show us quite clearly that separation of couples and divorce goes sky high through those years that I mentioned, 45 to 55. Okay. As do women's suicide rate, actually. And so we know that hormones affect us much more than was originally considered, you know, many years ago. But there is so much we can do, but we can't do it until we know what's going on. And so when I speak to people, I like to explain what's going on in the body and why, you know, how these hormones affect us. Estrogen is like good for everything. And when we're juicy and we're full of it, It's just wonderful. You know, we can dance through life as long as we haven't got other issues, of course.

Yeah.

Testosterone. You know, we produce more testosterone in our ovaries before menopause than estrogen. And you guys have estrogen too, you know, and we all, these hormones all decrease as, as age, as we get older at different levels. So for guys, your testosterone decreases. Nice and smoothly, you know, over quite a long period of time. For us, we're like this, we're up, we're down, we're up, we're down, you know, and which is why we get these very, very erratic mood swings often, you know, we can literally be crying one minute and laughing the next and think, what was that all about really? Inexplicably, you know.

Yeah, yeah, Nadia, I had a guest on a while back and she talked about the 4 stages of the menstrual cycle. And even just within those few, 4 weeks or so of time, how your hormones can just kind of obliterate one mood and create another one.

Yeah.

But yeah, I guess when you're going through such a big change within your body and the hormones are so, so doing, doing their own thing, that it's going to have a huge— it can have a huge impact on lots of different Yeah. Your mental health, emotional health, physical health, and everything else. And you won't know what's going on, will you?

And you can't predict it either, really. You know, you can, you can try and predict it by adjusting your nutrition, by increasing movement, by, you know, hanging out with the right sort of people, having a supportive partner, or, or being able to support yourself if you live alone. And really stress management is probably the biggest one, you know. I mean, that's the biggest one for everybody, isn't it? But our needs in all sorts of ways go sky high during perimenopause and menopause. And any ounce of stress can change our day or change our night, you know. So we really need to learn to cope with that. And when we have a supportive partner and that partner really wants to help and get involved, it can be such a huge relief. Huge help to do that because it's almost like, okay, I've got this piece of stress in front of me, and then somebody comes along that is in your sphere that can help you. So it might be a friend or a partner or a relative. You can actually feel stronger and you can see an end to that. But when you don't have that support network from either friends and family or a healthcare professional, or not having any knowledge, it can sometimes be so vast that you feel hopeless. And the more, or I should say, the less support that you get, or the less you look for it, the more overwhelming that piece can become.

Yeah.

And it affects everything. So we know that it affects women in the workplace massively. And 1 in 10 women consider leaving their work. In fact, I might have I have to relook at that. It could be 1 in 10 that do, but 1 in 20 that consider leaving. But certainly such a high percentage prevent themselves from going for a promotion, for instance, because they don't feel they can cope with, you know, more responsibility. And if you're a team leader or a manager and you're in the boardroom and you've got a meeting going on, you're on a Zoom meeting, and suddenly you forget somebody's name or what you're gonna say next, or—

Yeah.

You know, and if that's happening more often than not, then it— that can be devastating to your, your reputation and your self-esteem.

Yeah.

But if you can learn what's going on, and if you can get to that point of strength where you can go, do you know what, I've forgotten, brain fog moment, hang on, give me a minute, and maybe make light of it, and everybody in the room knows about it, and you're not embarrassed about it, It's an enormous relief you haven't got to have this burden yourself entirely.

I think that's really important, isn't it? That openness and honesty.

Sharing it.

Yeah, if I was going into a meeting with somebody, I'd much rather they say, oh, by the way, again, without any judgment, is I'm going through menopause. I'm having a few flushes at the moment. So if I lose myself, just bear with me. And we'd be like, all right, great. You know, because at least you're, rather than looking at someone going, are you all right?

You know, have you been drinking or something?

Could you really be here?

That's right.

Yeah, that'd be a much, much healthier space, not only for, for everybody, for the person, like you said, being able to feel comfortable that it's okay to say this is what's going on, but for everyone else in the room to go, that's okay, what's going on?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it normalizes it then, you know, to say the word menopause or flushing or having a tropical moment or a power surge, you know, whatever you want to call it.

Mm-hmm.

But it just means that you're sharing it with everyone. And we all know what stuck energy can do. It's really harmful. But actually being able to get that out there, and it destigmatizes the whole menopause thing. You know, I mean, we've done a great job over the years with mental health and being able to talk about it. We've got a ways to go, but it's out there. It's being talked about, and it's actually being addressed We need to do the same with menopause. And it is happening, you know, it is, it is becoming more normal, but we, we still have a way to go yet. And, and I really want to work with people that, that they want this for themselves, this gift. They want it for themselves and them and their partner and them and their family, actually. You know, I talk to women who scream at their kids, you know, when they're teenagers, And then afterwards think, oh God, why did I do that? It was just trivial. And then there's so much regret there, you know. And if that is happening, then let's get that addressed as soon as possible. Let's see what we can do to, to sort that out. What do you want to do?

Yeah.

We've got so many options. We've got natural ways, we've got spiritual and energetic ways, we've got HRT. There's so many things that we can do. It takes a conversation or a number of conversations. And as the light bulbs start to come on, yeah, people are more empowered. And as a couple, it opens up a whole new conversation for them. And they can start to really understand each other and what's going on. And in actual fact, that sometimes leads to the guy saying, well, actually, I think I might be losing a little bit of confidence in certain areas as well.

Yeah.

You know, and so, you know, I'm all about maintaining intimacy. And I'm not just talking about intercourse and sex, but the intimacy that couples really, you know, can benefit from growing and maintaining and sharing. It's beautiful. And having the conversation around that means that they're, Their relationship can become so much more full, so enriched, and it just gives it longevity. But having a hiccup like menopause coming between them can tear them apart. Let's not let that happen.

It can create a whole heap of differences within the relationship, whole shifts in the relationship, can't it? And if you're not on page with that, if you're not if it isn't normalized, if it isn't— again, I think like you said with yourself, that, that space you went into because you couldn't accept that this is what was going on in your life.

Mm.

And how you got depressed and how you got more anxious and everything else. And if you, even if you were in a supportive relationship at that time, that would have been hard work to a certain degree of you being able to be on the same page with somebody and for them to be able to support you in that space, especially if you were going through such a, such a difficult time. such a fluctuating time. If it was more accepted, you would have been better because when it started to happen to you, you would have gone, ah, menopause.

Yeah.

Bit of a bitch, but there you go.

Yeah.

You know, I don't really want it right now, but what can I do about it rather than how can I run away from it?

Absolutely. I was speaking to somebody at the weekend and she's got some aches and pains. She's a bit older, you know, and I said, okay, so what have you, what have you done about that? When did that start? What's happened to you? Oh, it doesn't matter. It's just me getting old. And that's the worst thing to say to me because I'm like, no, come on. What can we do?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Even if it is just you getting old, why accept that your body is breaking down if you could do something about it?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, given that we have the ability, and I appreciate that there are some that don't, if we do have the ability to do even the tiniest little thing that can improve life's quality, Let's do it. Let's see if we can find it. Because I love having that conversation. It's just where you can find something, you know, because everybody's desires are different, you know. And some people are like, you know what, I'm not going to stop drinking my wine. I'm not giving up the fags. I'm not going to stop having the pizza. That's okay. It's a lifestyle choice. And we're all at liberty to make those choices. But we do have to accept the consequences of that.

Definitely.

And also understand the dangers of that as well. You know, diabetes is ridiculous at the moment, and it's so easily put rightable in so many cases. But the knowledge is lacking. So, you know, with menopause and perimenopause, the knowledge is is lacking amongst so many people. If we just have a conversation, let's dig together. Let's pick it pick it up because as you talk about couples. When we're going through, when we're going through any kind of problem as, as a couple, we can get very defensive and very selfish. And it's such an unhealthy way to be, only physically for you to hold that in.

Mm-hmm.

But it's also really unhealthy for the relationship. And if it's a slippery slope, that can go all the way. So I wanna cut that off at the pass and go, okay, so why? Why are you feeling like that? And often it's because people have just let it go too far without addressing it. So I'm about nipping it in the bud as quickly as possible. And I think if the people that are great to talk to are the ones, I guess I probably am my ideal client because I always want to look for a solution.

Yes.

So I think there must be something. So That, that's the kind of person that lights me up. But, you know, anybody else that perhaps has a glimmer and, and wants to talk about it, yeah, I'm there. It's a subject close, close, close to my heart.

Yeah, because I guess there needs to be a turning point, doesn't there, for some people like there was for you, where it's being able to go, okay, I now have come to terms with this. What am I going to do about it? And I think that's like everything, even with relationship coaching and everything I do. It's when someone says, there's a problem. I accept that there's a problem. And now I need to know what I can do about that problem.

Yeah.

Then put yourself in the space when you start acting on doing something about that problem.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

That's the kind of same thing with this is if people want to reach out to you, Jacqui, and find out more about what you do and how you can help, how would they do that?

So I do have a website. Um, it's helpwithmenopause.net. But they can find me there, and the links are on there as well. I'm on LinkedIn. I've got a Facebook group called Your Menopause Mentor. And, uh, yeah, I'd love people to join the group because we, we talk a lot in there. And I also spotlight people that can come on and talk about what they can offer people going through that, that stage of life.

Mm-hmm.

Whether it's getting themselves a gorgeous new handbag because it's going to make them feel better, or they want some really Much more serious therapy, therapeutic help and discussion.

So you work with couples as well as people on an individual basis. So some of this stuff is for both people to come along to understand how this is, what's going on and how they can work together to help.

Yeah, very much so. Yeah. I'm open to having the conversation with, with anyone that just wants some guidance really. I love it.

And I think if you're just the partner, just to maybe find out a bit more about menopause and what could be going on anyway, right? Because again, I might be, as a therapist and as a coach, I've been aware of what's going on for somebody before they've been aware of what's going on for them because, because of my practice and everything else that I've done. I can go, that, that looks or that feels a bit like you might be struggling with this.

Hmm.

No, I didn't even think about that. And so I can point that out before they even realize it themselves. I guess if you can You know, get as much information for this as possible, whether you're going to go through menopause or not. If someone that you're with is then showing any kind of symptoms, and, or is getting to the age where they might start to experience that, and you might go, oh, that could be this.

Absolutely. So sometimes guys get in touch, you know, I think my missus is going through this, you know, what do you advise? And, and we can set off a conversation. So I do get guys contacting me without the partner knowing. But then they just want to go back and support them because, because they love them. They just want to go back and get some knowledge, you know, to help them.

Thank you very much for your time, Jacqui. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

You too, John. Thank you. I've loved it.

Again, probably one of those conversations, there's so many topics that were popping up into my head as we were talking. I think, oh, well, maybe a part 2 is required.

Happy to do it.

Okay, lovely. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

So if you want to reach out to Jackie, please do. The, the link to the website will be in the show notes. So just click on there, see what Jackie does and reach out if you need some help. Thanks again for your time. Absolute pleasure talking to you.

Loved it. Thanks, John.

Be good to yourself. Take care.