A Conversation With Plants & Pascal Fafard

Hi friends, I'm John Kemp, hosting this podcast. I am passionate about developing regenerative agriculture systems that improve soil health, produce crops that are completely resistant to diseases and insects, and produce fruit of such an exceptional quality that we can have a legitimate conversation about growing food as medicine. I've discovered that there are many people with incredible knowledge and information about soil and plant systems and and how to develop regenerative agricultural systems. However, much of this knowledge and this information is scattered. It's found all over the place, some of it has been published in peer reviewed publications, but there are many incredible stories and a lot of knowledge that has not been published and that hasn't been shared with many people. I started advancing EcoAgriculture in 2006 to bring this knowledge together in a more coherent fashion and incorporate it into products and growing systems that growers can easily put into practice. It's my personal mission to have these regenerative agricultural systems become adopted globally and become the mainstream, the status quo against which all other growing systems are compared. To help achieve this goal, I want to share the knowledge that we have learned in the last decade and make it available to everyone while we have developed products at AEA that embody the principles of regenerative agriculture systems and make them easier for growers to apply. This knowledge and these principles can be applied anywhere and when they are applied properly, they will always increase farm profitability and resilience to climate stress. If you have any questions, suggestions, comments or ideas, topics that you would like for me to discuss, Please connect on LinkedIn or on Twitter where my username is visionbuilder7 or you can also email me at john kempf.com I would very much like to hear from you and to hear your feedback. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and thank you very much for listening. Enjoy the show.

Many great growers have had the experience of walking through a block of fruit or through a field of vegetables and saying something like something just doesn't quite feel right. This block is off. It's sometimes hard to quantify, but we know that something doesn't feel right. What if you could tap into what your crop is attempting to communicate in this episode? I'm delighted to host a good friend, Pascal Fafard. Pascal is a consultant in Quebec, as you'll be able to hear from his awesome accent and is in very high demand to work with the largest vegetable growers in the region. While Pascal has decades of experience and a background in agronomy, his consulting work is not focused on managing insects or managing nutrition. Instead, he helps growers figure out how to tap into what is happening with their soils and plants and how to determine what is going on when things just don't feel quite right. This is a very important topic, a very different topic from our typical agronomy science focused, but one that I believe is very important and that you'll greatly appreciate and enjoy. This season like the last is brought to you by Advancing Eco Agriculture. Each episode we gift a community impact spot which features the efforts of organizations who are doing really great work in the sphere of regenerative agriculture and food. We hope that you'll check them out and get involved and support their work as well. This show we have Chelsea Green an important publisher in the regenerative agriculture space. They have long been a valuable source of information to growers intent upon learning more about ecologically sound farming practices.

Chelsea Green Publishing, employee owned and mission driven, is recognized as a leader in content about organic farming and gardening, homesteading, local food, restorative living, regenerative agriculture and diet focused integrative health publishing expert authors that that bring in depth practical knowledge to life with books, ebooks and audiobooks. Go to chelseagreen.com and enter code REAG30 at checkout to receive a special Regenerative Agriculture Podcast discount on your next print book purchase and be sure to sign up for our newsletter and stay up to date on new releases. Chelsea Green Publishing cultivating change since 1984 I love it.

My own library has many titles from Chelsea Green and I hope that you'll take advantage of the discount they offer. Many growers and agronomists have asked that we develop more in depth information to describe the concepts that we've developed in.

Our work at AEA and which I.

Allude to here on the podcast. I'm delighted to announce that we've been able to produce a series of online courses where we do a deep dive on important agronomic principles. You can find the Regenerative Agriculture Academy by searching for it or you can find it at Academy Regen Ag. I'm very excited by the information that we are sharing and I look forward to seeing you there.

Hi friends, I'm here with a consultant who is loved by his growers for his work as a coach and consultant. Pascal Fafard has a fascinating story and I think a story that is very relevant for all of us as growers and as consultants. One of the most important things that we can do in working with plants is remembering that the image that we hold in our mind of success what success looks like and the space that we come from within can have a tremendous impact on the crops that we're growing, on the people that we interact with every day. Pascal has a fascinating story, has done some very interesting work in this area that I wanted to share with all of you. So, Pascal, thank you very much for joining us today, for being here and for sharing your story. We're very excited to have you.

Thank you very much, John, It's a pleasure.

Pascal, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what has led you to the work that you're doing today?

Yeah, sure. So, first, I am an agronomist. So I made my studies at university for four years. Mainly, I think I learned to learn because most of my expertise, I really found it in the field with grower, with other advisors, and in general with my life. So I've been working 10 years in a group of consultants doing IPM integrated pest management. So the main goals was to look at the farms and reduce pesticide. I learned a lot there on the methodology, you know, to. To look on the very scientific, but, you know, counting the insect, the disease, to decide if we reach the appropriate level to take an action. But most of that time the action was put a pesticide, insecticide, fungicide, to kill something. And after some time, I realized I was ready for a new area, a new way to deal with the farms, with the. The grower. I quit. I started to work for two years using different product coming from Germany. The name of the project is not important, but is it was more now on building something so product to promote health of the plant, health of the soil, the microbiology and really building something. So I think it's. It's probably at this moment the guy who is. Was using those products was a naturopath. That is a good word. Sorry for my English. Is that a good word in English? Yeah, yeah, naturopath. It teach me. It brought me a new way to look at the farms as something living. So the soil would be as similar as the digestive system. So you want to help it to work in the proper way so that the plant receives the proper nutrient. So for me it was a shift and I was ready for that. But all along my career, I met so wonderful people who bring their richness, their expertise, who make who I am now. Anyway, so I've been there for two days and after what I was seeing is yes, I'm working more with the nature, but I see so many grower stress with child or the next generation who just don't want to take the farm because they see their parents or their, their father doing 100, 120 hour per week, being stressed, not fully fulfilled. And I'm talking about good farms, really successful farms in the area from 100 to 500 acre of vegetable, mostly very established enterprise, but still with a lack of happiness. So based on those experiences, decide to take care specifically of the grower, family business grower and put aside all the agriculture for two years. So it was a good opportunity for me to really feel the challenge that experience of a farmer, a grower, yes, grow plants, but manage a team of employee, do the marketing, do the sale, repair the machinery, create new machinery. So so many domain that they have to be really good. And what I felt is there was a lack in staying connected to what is their first passion. So after those two, three years of coaching, I came back as a consultant, but more in a way to teach first because my main goals in. It's a big answer for a small question, John, but my main goals is really to bring back autonomy to the grower because that's their farms. So I start more to develop kind of survivors that we're going to talk later to bring back autonomy. And I really think it starts with educate and teach and make sure that the basic function of the soil and the plant is understood.

So Pascal, you're describing yourself as being in the area of bringing autonomy to the grower. And you're working with fruit and vegetable growers in Quebec, which is, we can hear from your accent really.

What are.

Some of the memorable moments that led you to do the work that you're doing today? And when you describe bringing autonomy to a grower, what does that really mean to you?

Yeah, first, as I said, I think Since I was 25 years old, the first time that my older brother told me, you know, Pascal, life is just incredible. The only advice I can give you is do course experiment, you know, learn. Because life is so much complex that we can see it. But it's so exciting to go through it with a mindset of discovery. And naturally. Since 20 years, I really open minded to new way to see life, to understand life. As I said, I love people. I really try to see people for their own color and get the gift that they have to share naturally and in their unique color based on that, you know, you are a person. That first time I met you, I received a lot on your way to see life, your capacity to explain in detail something so complex. Example, the photosynthesis of the plant. But why is this process is there for the plant and put it in perspective. So people as you bring a richness to my life to help me to become who I am now. It's a process, it will never end it and I'm really excited because it keep moving and. And also it bring me a sense of humility. You know, if there is something I want to say today that I'm not here to say the truth. I have one truth and my only desire when you offer me this opportunity is just open new possibility to the grower. And if there is something resonate in themselves, in what I see, just take it. If there is something that doesn't talk to you, just put it back on a toilet in the garbage. And it's really an opportunity to look at your own relationship with your farms, with your family, with your employee, with the nature. And look if you can get a gift and add it to your own tools.

Pascal, when you were working with a grower and coaching, as you describe it, what exactly is the scope of the coaching? What are you really doing with the growers that you're working with?

Okay, first I have really a focus to what is the priority in the farms. So when I, when I arrive on the farm, usually I really try to find what's working and where there is an opportunity to improve. So sometimes I'm going to talk about the field, the fertility. Sometime I can, you know, we have a problem at the harvest time and example the the plant are not at the same stage. So I have a feeling that oh, okay, maybe we need to go back to the planting time or the seeding time and we can go back and just walk behind the machinery and get information to find a good dynastic about the situation. So I really try with the grower to get an overview of his farm and find opportunity to improve. I look at it in different aspect. What is success? You know, when I started as an agronomist 25 years ago, it was the damage of the insect or having a good yield. It is still something very important. But now I had other aspect as you have fun, you have pleasure to do your work as a grower, are you still connected to that passion that brought you to the farms or to follow what your parents did or. I don't know, no matter if you start your own business or if you're a second or third generation, are your employees also fulfilled? Are they expressing their full potential? Because I really think that it's when everybody bring their own richness and is in the good place in the Farms that we have the most chance to have success in every area. Clearly profitability is important. I saw a lot of grow or, you know, work hard, really hard, being really committed, but they, they had a lack to just step back sometime is okay. Do I put my time, my energy at a good place. For me, it was a big revelation. Is that a good word in English? Yeah, yeah. Revelation to see that. Wow. You know, I expect that some people who are on their farm for 10, 15, 20 years would know their farm very well. And I'm not saying that they don't know nothing. But what I realize is a grower, a farmer, is not different than a businessman in any area. Things go, can go fast, life can go fast. And sometimes it's easy to go on the automatic pilot and lose that awareness. That gonna help you to, oh, something going on here. I need to look more closer or I need some help to really understand what's going on. And once I get the information and I know what's going on now, I can maybe adapt my strategy and make it happen.

So following up on what you just described, what does success look like for you? What does a successful grower look like?

Yeah, I really think the biggest way from what I saw with my grower is are they fulfilled? Are they fulfilled in what they are doing? What I realize is when my grower slow down, take moment to go in the field, take moment to have an overview of their farms. Look, the employee, you know, ask the question, is that person is the good person at a good place? You know, I really see that a new state of peace of mind come for them. They take better decision because they got better information at first. They attract different things too. We didn't talk about it before, but I teach also to my grower that I truly believe that our farms, our life is made of energy. And no matter your religion or your spirituality, I think if you are a grower or a consultant in agriculture, we accept the fact that there is something bigger with an awareness. And we can call it God or universe or energy or nature, but there is something bigger that bring life or make life happen. And as a human being, we are part of that world, of that system. So what I observed during those years is, okay, you need to work with your mind, with your rationality, but you need also to develop your intuition, your connection to the nature. And I think it's when you put both together that you get the best, best result. So if I go back to your question, I think when I observed that one of my growers Become more fulfilled, happy. It's because naturally all the other aspect got in place. Yeah. He is proud of of the field. Good yield, good quality. Is proud of the way grow it. I'm not working with only organic grower. I take all the people and I take from where they are. And naturally we evolve to work more with the nature. Because I think that's the more efficient way to produce good yield and good quality. But it's also the most natural way as human being to be with. They realize that, okay, when I put a pesticide bring disorder in the soil on my plant, it's toxic. The costs always increasing on the market to buy the product. And I'm not building something. So naturally they think differently. They prepare the soil, they work with more natural product. And after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years they realize, wow, I completely transformed my way of growing. No matter they are already organic or not, there is a process going in that direction also. I heard a lot of my grower hearing that now the seller want their product. I don't know what you're doing on your farm, but that shallot green onion, the conservation it's much better in the grocery. So you're a bit higher on your price. But I want to pay it because my customer want that I buy from you. That's other for me result of the success, you know, the quality. The seller want your product usually the price go it because. And also profitability is important if we want a long term success for a farm. But what I realized if I bring my. My grower fulfill in what he's doing. That's where you're going to use the most in the best ways his potential. And it's going to reflect on everything on a direct way. And also in a subtle way as attracting good things on an energetic level.

Pascal, I find this to be a very interesting topic. We don't often hear consultants speaking about fulfillment of farmers and growers. And the question that comes to mind is what are the areas that you find most often that growers are dissatisfied with or that are preventing them from feeling fulfilled in their work?

I think a lot feel often overwhelmed. You know, running, running after a list to do that will never ended until the. The winter arrive.

If it ends then.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a very good point. Because I know some my grower, you know, store some vegetable like carrot, onion and they can keep the same same speed. Maybe that brings me to something I didn't share yet. That five years, five okay. Times go fast. Five or six years ago. I've been introduced with a woman, Maya Kincaid from Sedona, Arizona. And Maya, since she is very, very young, express a gift. She can talk telepathically to animals. And mainly that's expertise and enterprise. Now she teach people in business or just individual to connect with the nature. She mostly work with animals, but one day through a friend, we connect. And she told us that she could teach us how to communicate with plant naturally. I was really, why not? You know, I heard so many story in my life, you know, I've been misdeeding for many years, not on a constant way, but every two weeks. I don't know. Anyway, I. I knew that there is many aspects of life that I'm not mastering, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So for me, when I heard about that woman, that she can communicate with animals and that she answer us that she could teach us how to communicate with plants, I told myself why not? And in the first way I saw the opportunity as an agronomist, wow. If I can communicate with the plants and the plant told me I want more nitrogen, increase the population, it's going to be much easier to develop a strategy. But it was just, it was nothing about what I've been discovering over the five, six or seven years. And I naturally integrated in my work with my grower. Why am I talking about that? Because at first I wanted to teach it to the grower to get the information, as I said. But what I realized after I start implementing that technique in grower and farmer's life, they start to slow down. And at least one times a day take 15, 20 minutes, sometime more, but at least 15 minutes go in the field and just connect truly with the nature. And just that 15 minutes calm the mind, bring more peace, put some light on the priority. And after, when they go back to the other usual tasks that they have or responsibility they have in the farms, they look at it with a new sense of awareness. And if I go back to the fulfillment they are in relationship with the challenge of being a farmer in a much more calmer and quiet way. So instead of being rushed and always reacting, they start to dance and you know, like surfing with the wave, they start to dance with challenge. And naturally, after weeks, months or years of practice, they are completely in a different place. They are much more powerful to deal with the responsibility and the challenge of being. Yes, it's, it's beautiful to be a farmer, but that's a reality. And I'm sure all person who are listening now, they experience Some time that. That's tough. You know, the climate, the sales are just growing. There is a lot of challenge. But what I saw is with bringing that skills, you can completely transform your relationship in a good way to your farms.

Pascal, talking to plants. This is a fascinating skill that I've heard other people speak about. One of my mentors, Bruce Tainio, was very gifted at speaking with plants. Bruce is unfortunately no longer living, but I'm really intrigued. Tell us a little bit more about what is the experience like in communicating with plants and what are the types of things that you learn?

Okay. And as I said, that's. That's my truth. I don't say it to force it. I'm just sharing what I have experienced, what I notice. So at first it was a knowledge that someone teach me. I don't know the verb in past tense. It's an English course for me now. So anyway, someone teach me the technique. And I had it with my own past experience about meditation. About as. On my personal life, I. For many years, I love to go have hike in mountain or nature. And when you are in nature, naturally, you slow down, you start observing the bird. We develop a new sense of awareness. Okay. Example in the. In the spring, when the, you know, the. The nature is like awakening. Awakening. Yeah. Yeah. We can feel something happening. You know, it's. It's not. It's. It's. It's not something weird or bizarre. We feel there is a new sense of life growing. Another thing. Sometime I'm sure you go into feeling, Hmm. I don't know why there is a problem here. I cannot point it out right now, but something wrong or the opposite. Oh, wow. I don't know that. That feel is so alive. I'm really excited to see it at the time of harvest because. Wow, that's wonderful.

You know, you're absolutely right, Pascal, and both of those things. When you walk into a field in the springtime, the air feels different. There's songbirds singing, and there is a burst of vitality and energy that happens in the spring that is very observable. And also, I couldn't agree more with the second comment that you made. I couldn't begin to recall all the times that we have walked with a grower through an orchard or through a field, and the grower will say something like, this block just doesn't feel right. Something is not right. I'm not sure what it is, but this block just doesn't feel right.

Yeah. You know, at first, honestly, when I got the course, I remember it was late August 2011. I remember the name so well. It's kind of wild. I took the first course. It was by phone. If I go through the process, it was really easy. I expect a very complex technique. But what Maya told us is, okay, first, just be aware of your mind. Do you have expectation? Do you have other worries that on your day. So what I develop afterwards is, okay, I put all my worry, I put it aside. It's like I'm talking to myself and I'm gonna take you back later, but now I'm gonna just experience something. She gave us example to remind a positive and a negative souvenir. Just to observe, to connect to the. The emotion inside and to realize, to be aware that, okay, there is something going on in my. In my body. And it's. It's emotion. And what's emotion? Again, it's energy. You know, you could say that the. The flow of the blood increase or. Yeah, that. That's the physical part. But what's emotion? That's. That's energy. That's something subtle. So second step, we just accept the fact that we can communicate with any living organism. In my believing, I really believe every living organism as a soul or a consciousness. Usually I don't put much importance to the world. I just try to describe that something and I know it exists. And that's the way I go in life. I want to know the basic, but I don't. In French, we have an expression on the sans French, pont la fleur du tapis. I'm sure you don't understand the French or the way I said it. But the point is you don't give too much importance to the detail. You just get the overview and that's the main goals. So I accept we accept the fact that we can communicate with plants. So I was in my city, my other friend was another city in Quebec. And Maya was in Sedona, Arizona. And the way we did it that she asked us prepare a list of plants, insect, field that you want to communicate with. I use the word communicate because talk for me sometimes and for some person, it's harder to accept the concept because talk we say automatically that there is a sound. For me, usually it's more in my mind. It's like more telepathic. Sometimes you can talk. So I know some growers prefer to talk, but I just want to say that it's a kind of communication. Anyway, tell me if I go to too much in detail. So we're having this conversation to go into detail. So. So at that first Course I have to be honest, I have a small doubt. I was really open minded. And honestly, I had a talk with the person and I saw she was a grounded person, nice personality. So for me, she show me the sign of someone I can have confidence. So anyway, I'm gonna try it and we see what happened. And I still remember the first communication. I chose a field of corn one hour away from my city. It was a customer that I had and we had some trials where we test some new product and those products in general promote really good result. But on that field there was no result. So I had the idea that why we don't talk with the film. And we have a very practical example. So the way we did it, Maya asked, okay, I'm going to ask the question. We wait for two minutes and we observe what we get. And after we share our answer, both, all three of us. So the question was something like, oh, we can help you or something similar. So she said it and right away we observe on our own side in our home what show up. And for me, right away I got, I don't need your help. And clearly I could feel it was not myself talking to me because it could be one of your questions. Are you sure it's not, you know, your mind, you know. And I could feel there was a different personality bringing me some thoughts. And I start laughing and go, what's going on? And what you know, I was ready to receive a beautiful nice answer. Oh, you could tell to micro her to bring more nitrogen. No, that's I don't need your help. So I start laughing. Anyway, after two minutes we share our answer. And I think I was the first and I shared that and I got a strong I don't need your help. And I start laughing and I start just dancing with that first answer. And inside my mind I told myself, oh, why that corn is saying me that? At the moment I asked a question, I received an answer, probably not from the coin at that time, but from a higher level. And as I said, for me it was not important, noticing that I was connecting to a higher level of consciousness in a very practical way and there was an opportunity to explore there. And the first answer I got from why is he answering me? It was, yeah, maybe it was a pretty fast and straight introduction. You know, he don't know who we are. I didn't introduce myself. And I noticed that my intention was to get answered to take care of my customer. Honestly, I didn't care so much about the coin itself. So anyway, we share the Answer. And the three of us has mostly the same result. Maya and Michael received that why I would answer to you, you don't like corn. So the same tonality, the same kind of emotion that you disturb me. And both of them share to me that, wow, I realized with the answer of the coin that Maya and Michael have in the background, believing that there is too much corn on the, on the planet, it's too hard on the soil. It's. It's take water. It's, you know, it's not positive. It's not a positive plant. So what we realized that, wow, the exploration, the discovery has already started. We notice that the plant felt judged. So in the future, if we want to create a nice relationship and develop communication, we need to respect the organism that the living organism that we are, we want to communicate with it. I don't know if you have question at that part of my story, or I'll just continue.

Well, there's a number of different questions that have come up, but let's continue. I'd love to, love to hear the end of that and then I'll follow through.

Good. So what come in my mind now is maybe some people listening now are. Or maybe I don't know that, oh, am I able to do that? Or it's almost impossible to believe, or okay, I will not censure. I will express myself freely. So I have two answer to that. First, yes, is that like everything, the more you practice, the better you become. So my aptitude now, seven years later, is much better than at the beginning. Second, yes, I've done meditation. You know, I've. For many years. I work in nature, so I develop my sensibility and my awareness. But what I see is I've teached that to particular, to individual, to any kind of farmer, some very rational people who think everybody was able to do it. Everybody. So I'm not different. Yes, maybe I reach a level of mastering. I don't know. And I know people who are much better than me. But the point is, everybody I truly believe in that is able to do it.

One of the questions that I have, Pascal, you expressed that you had a desire to learn about and thought you might be able to get answers about nutrient management or irrigation management. And then the answers that you received were actually about your relationship with the crop rather than about nutrition management. In that example that you shared, what were the types of answers that were common as you continued with this over the years?

Very good question. You're a good interviewer, John. I think you should follow on that okay, I'm gonna answer your question with finishing the story with the coin and I'm gonna bring additional example with the coin. After that first question and first answer, we realized that, okay, we need to connect with heart, with deep soul, you know, with a good intention with the plan if we want to receive good answer. So the second step we did, we introduced ourselves. So I the corn was not able to see me. So I'm a human. I am an agronomist. I like my grower, I like the corn, the plant. And I'm really interested to know more about you. And I could feel, you know, the energy changing for me, I see no difference. Okay, mostly. But really mainly a plant or an animal or a human is mostly the same. It's living. It want to have a purpose in life. There is emotion. So on that specific case, the coin, he felt like attack. So he protect himself. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't walk on my feet. And who are you? Where, where, where are you coming from? So after a second step just introduced, I could feel the protection energetically going down. And I could feel he feel my desire really to take care of him. And at the end, what we got, because it was a short conversation. But if you, if you want to help me, the only thing I can tell you, don't put more of us in the field. It's already too much crowded. So he was talking about the, the level of the. The rate of seeding in the field of the population. So that was my first practical example of agronomic answer coming from a plant. As you brought up, there is two kind of answer we can receive agronomic answer and relationship answer. If I can say that if I start with the agronomic, I got a case. I think it was a second. The first summer, the second years. I start with a grower and about 400 acre vegetable farms in mock soil. Lettuce, onion, carrot, some many crop. He had a disease of carrot. There was still another agronomist doing the IPM management, you know, reduce pesticide. It was the same organism that I was working before. And he had me to bring different view on the forest. So he called me Pascal, my advisor come in the field. They observed there was root disease in my carrot. Most of my field is attack. And he recommended me to destroy it and never plant carrots for three, four, five years to make a rotation. And he said probably the disease is going to stay there. But we, we just tried to decrease the level. I know you look at things differently and I would like you come in the field and give me your opinion. So I went there. It was one of my first big challenge. So I was a bit nervous, you know, it's not because I learned the technique, I practice the technique that I'm. I'm always full of confidence and wow, I'm hot. You know, I'm human as grower and advisor. Yes, I doubt something. But what I learned over the time is. And that's a shift if I can open that. In my first 10 years, first years of advisor, I brought the obligation to myself to bring answer. There was a smooth transition to where now I bring light on the situation, I bring question. And when I do that, I realize that we find better information, we have better diagnostic and we build something. We build an expertise as grower, as advisor. We really build something on a short, mid and long term in that way. So I catch myself, I told myself, okay, forget about your doubt. Just walk in the field and do the technique with no expectation, no, no obligation to perform. Just connect and look what you got, what you get. At the moment I thought that in my mind I start having problem to breathe. Really important problem to breathe. So I wow. I become more emotional. What's going on at the moment? I ask what's going on? I receive something telling in my mind, thoughts telling. It is not you, it is the soil. And now I start smiling. Oh, wow. Okay, I got it. And now it was a dance. I was dancing with the answer, the rational agronomists with the intuitive part of me. I asked myself, okay, problem of breathing. Root disease. Oh, maybe there is a lack of oxygen in the soil. I go take my shovel, dig a hole. And it was mock soil. And what I saw is the. The first maybe, I don't know exactly 20 centimeter was well, decomposed. Is that it? Is that a good one In English?

Yeah.

Well, aerated, no, but the. The process of decomposition.

Yeah.

So because it was a mock soil. So usually there is a lot of fiber, right? But with time with microorganism, it start to decompose and smaller fiber and it's released the nutrient from the process of decomposition. So I saw a first part very well decomposed. And right after there is no decomposition on that part. So it's really orange, big thick fiber where water has problem to go through. Clearly a lack of oxygen. And I see that because I dig other hole. Every area where there is more disease, the. The depth of the decomposition is higher. So when there is deeper decomposition, the roots when better, better health system, better area and There is less disease. So wow, that's really interesting. We walk that field many times but we never dig a hole. And that's the thing, I see so much and I, and honestly I, I studied four years at university, but never someone put to the emphasis of look the root, go dig hole and hole and hole and get information. And many of my growers, when I went with them dig hole, it was the first time of their life doing it. I'm not saying it's everybody, I'm clear, some of you listening and you did it. But with my experience I would say that 80 to 90% of my grower and really I'm working with really top grower producing very good crop. But most of them never took time to dig, all to look at the roots of their crop.

Yeah, we see the same thing. It's very common. Growers are very busy and they've never, they've never been taught to look at root systems and they're easy to ignore. They're out of sight and out of mind.

Yeah. So if I go back to the technique, I connect in the field because I receive a physical experience because for me it's dependent upon the person. When you communicate with nature, you can receive information as a thought, as an image, as an emotion. You can be pulled to go somewhere in the field. So it depends of the person. Sometimes some people hear a voice. Me, I never hear a voice. It seems it's not my kind of sensibility. But you know, be open minded in the way it's going to be your way. So anyway, if I go back, I go in a field, I have breeding problem. It bring me back to my analysis about the link with root disease and plant. I, I got the feeling I need to dig a hole. After that I got information about it's not the same in everybody. You know, the other advisor said that. But no, there is different place. So I, I've got intuition to go in different place in the field, dig out a hole. Got other information. What? We got the first recommendation that you can do nothing. I asked the field, okay, can we do something? I got some information. Yeah, you can put that product to bring more vitality in the microorganism in the field. You can plant some area, not the other. Anyway, I got some information agronomic to give to the grower and to understand more what happened and what we can do and not do. So that was mostly for the agronomic part. Second part human, part relationship, human within nature. I was ready to leave the field because it was an Area of the farms outside of the main block. So it was maybe 2km. So I go in my car at the moment I go out of the field. I feel I need to pull out on the side and to wait. So I stopped my car and I got. I missed to see my grower. I miss the presence of my grower. And again I smart smiling and go what? And I got nothing else. So I go to see my grower and I shared what I just shared to you about the. The soil, what I got the way I got the information. I dig hole. And so he's really excited. He trusts me and he's really open to develop other skills to put in his toolbox. So it's very excited. And that's the time that I know I have to talk about the last message. And I asked myself, is that too weird? But with time I know when I have to say things and never it happened. When I have a strong message for a grower or another person, I know it and I know it's gonna be accepted. So I told him, I have another message for, for you. He started smiling like he was already knowing it was gonna be special. I told him, do you go often to that field? And now a bit guilty smiling, said, no, you know, my main farm is here. And I felt that it was going well. You know, I see visually that it was well. So I don't go often. So I shared that. I got that the field, the block, you know, really the soil told me I would like, I would enjoy. It's not. I would like, I would enjoy that my owner, my grower come to see me more often and that would help me to grow more healthier plant. For me, it was so beautiful to really realize that the soil or the plant, they have a relationship with us. And with developing that skill to communicating, we really can create a partnership. You know, being aware there is a partnership, but doing it in the. In a way that we are aware of it and that it's possible. And for my grower, he really understood what I. What I meant when I said that. When we were talking about, you know, going to spring and feel there is something going on or going to field, oh, something good or there is a problem without knowing what is the problem. When I told him, it touched something in. In him that yeah, yeah, I. I knew it, I knew it. I had to go more often. But you know, things going fast and I was not listening to, to that inner voice to go more there. So I commit to myself and to my land. I'm gonna go there and not because I'm in application, because I'm excited to really go there and spend time there. So again, long answer to small question. With that technique we get, you can get agronomic information, but there is so much more to explore about developing a relationship with the crop or the soil for the result in the field. But also we know one time we asked, what's your purpose to the plant? It was a general question to all the species, what's your purpose? And the answer was clear. It was our main purpose as a plant is to participate to evolution of human being. I really tried to keep that in mind that the plant, the soil, they want to being involved in our life, they want take care of ourselves and, and I experiencing in the. The years after as we develop that the more you develop your partnership with the farms, it's like magic. It's like things flow much more naturally.

Yeah. Something that I've observed over the years, and this is, this is more commonly and perhaps better understood or more relatable perhaps by growers and farmers who are working with livestock. I grew up in a community with a lot of smaller dairy farms, 40 cows to 100 cow dairies. And on some of these old dairy farms where there's Thai stalls, there can be two rows of cows with their backs turned to the farmer. The farmer gets up in the morning, goes out and walks to the barn as the cows are getting up and he will stop and say, there is something wrong with that cow. And yet there is nothing. There is no visual symptom or no visual expression that something is not okay. It's just an intuitive connection that they develop this relationship and this connection with their livestock and with their animals that they know something is not right. And I've observed this same characteristic with really good growers and sometimes very large growers. They spend time out in the fields, walking through the fields, and they know when something isn't right. And so the question or the comment that you just made really kind of struck me pretty hard because I was about to ask the question, what is the role of the relationship between the grower and the plant? What is it that plants desire from the grower?

I would say that you should ask. Yeah, I would say in general, plants are not different than human being. They won't have partnership relationship. They want we take care of them and they want to take care of us, you know, guiding us in our decision in life. You know, participating on the success of the farms in every aspect from fulfillment, profitability, healthy and abundance in crop. What I could add is I realized that really plant as a human want to have a purpose. And it's not automatic, it's what I observed. I was surprised that, but I saw it many times. If I do the correlation with human being, you know, sometime we feel a bit lost and we have a lack in the sense of what am I doing? What's my purpose? You know, what am I useful for? So there is a different level of where you can be. You can completely out of your purpose, you can be right on and you know, no doubt about what you want to bring to society. And you are fulfilled and you can be in between with the plant. Sometime I found a field. Honestly, the feeling it was. It was. The field was depressed, the emotion was there. The field and every single plant was depressed, growing. But it's funny you say that in English, but in a vegetative, vegetative way, you know, for us, in French it means that it's automatic pilot with no awareness. I realize now that we judge the nature when we say that. But anyway, the point is when you, When a grower, when a team work in the field, you bring your color. If you're joyful, you seed. You bring the energy of joy in the field, if you're depressed, if you're stressed, if you're frustrated, you bring that energy in the field too. And slowly the soil or the plan gets impregnated. Can we say that?

Yeah.

Wow, my English is very good. I think that's the first time I use that word. That's cool. Anyway, so about the purpose. When I observed that, I realized, example, I have a case in mind. I arrive in a field. The. The film is like dead. Visually it's okay. It's not a nice feel. It's not a very nice feel, but it's. It's okay. But I feel like it is dead. So I just do my little usual step, you know, breathe, put my rear ray beside. Bring my intention to connect. And I listen and I start noticing some. It's like the field wake up from a night of many days. You know, it's come. Okay, who's talking? What's going on? And as I said now, sometimes when I go in the field, I introduce myself. Okay, I am the human being. The communication you're receiving. I am the human being at the end of the field now. And now I really get the intention. I feel that they. They know where I am. I don't know how does it work? Do they see me? I know they don't have eyes do they see me? Do they feel me? You know, I don't want to go there, but I'm just saying that I feel that there is a recognition. They know I'm there. And usually that's the first time that a human talk or communicate with them. So there is a naturally an excitement coming up, what's going on? Wow. So we start now communicating in different way. And naturally what's coming is by my. By showing interest to them. It's like they become more joyful, more alive. And often at the end, they have so much gratitude for me just being in communication with them. And it's like a reminder, oh, I'm here to grow, to feed people. I'm here to grow, to be, sell and participate to the prosperity of the farms. So sometime I go deeper and I really create partnership. I participate to make sure they understand how important they are. You know, you gonna feed people and can feed a family, child, parents. By harvest, you, the grower gonna receive money. With that money, gonna pay employee that those employees gonna take care of their family. With that money, gonna maybe be able to take more time for himself, take care of himself, build a good team, build new machinery to take care of the soil, you know, so it's really incredible how they can participate in the success in every way of the farms.

A couple of years ago, you described a story for me of a grower who was working with several fields of lettuce who had been damaged by hail. And the relationship and the image that he held in his mind those fields. Can you share that story?

Are you talking about? Twas storm iron in 2011, I think, and the field has been damaged a lot. Not by eel, I think it was, but, you know, big drop of water push with the wind. So there was big damage on the leaves. And there was a field. He told me, tomorrow I'm going to destroy it because there is too much damage and we need still 10 days to get the size to harvest. So in that field, when we entered, there was so much sadness, we could feel it. That was my first teaching for that specific grower. And I was just sharing step by step what I was getting as information. For me, it was new too, so it could feel that, wow, what are we doing with that? And it's funny because it was very vulnerable. Usually I'm not able to deal with sadness in my own life. So what do we do? And what come in my mind is just connect and take care. You have child. If your child is sad or what will you do? You just listen to him, you hug him. So let's do in a virtual way the same with the plants. So it was really interesting. And later in that experience I was sharing all the different way to experience could have a thought, an image, emotion. And on that specific case we got pull. It's like something pull our shoulder to look in a different way. And that time he look at me, you got pulled. I start smiling and said, yes, I got pulled. After, after that experience with the lettuce, I started having some image. And that's probably what you remember. I, I got an image and I said, do you realize if we start to be able to communicate with plant, create a partnership, create a good context of existence for those plants. I see a head of lettuce in the middle of the table with three child parents. And the letter is going to feed the plants. The plants fill the human. And now I realized seeing it, wow, it's going to be digested and become blood. So the letters become now part of the human system. And we were looking at each other. Wow, it is just incredible. And at the same time that we share that we turn the head on the direction of the first field, the one who was too much damage and was supposed to be destroyed. The day after we look at the field, we look at each other, we look at the field, we look at each other and at the same time we say, it's greener, it's greener. And he said, that's impossible. And as I told you, I'm pretty open minded. You know, I heard and I experienced so many things in my life. I accept the fact, okay, I'm not crazy, it's clearly greener. And I asked the question, okay, what happened? And what I got commenced was a course I've done in university. You know, in my course of agronomy there was animal physiology. And we were talking about the eyes, how the eyes perceive the light and the color. And it's only a question of frequency. I explained it the best way I can. But red, if you compare to blue, it is just a different frequency of energy. And in your eyes there is some specific part that can perceive those frequency and transfer the signal to the the brain. So with that reception of different frequency, we know what we call blue, we call yellow or red. Anyway, the more you have energy in yourself, the more your frequency gets higher. It's well documented by many researchers. So more energy, more frequency. My explanation that got validated by nature was as I was talking with my grower about what was possible. Imagine the letters that the field beside Was listening. So without knowing I was creating live a new context of existence for that field of lettuce. As the letters individually hear that, they get excited their level of energy. As you know, if you compare a human being depressed and fully joyful, you know which person has the more energy. That's the joyful person. So what I realized that by talking, I created a new context of existence for those lettuce. Their level of energy went up. So my eyes, in the eyes of my grower perceive a different frequency, still green, but a higher level of frequency of green. So we perceive it greener, darker greener. So I'm sure if I would have do a leaf analysis, I would not have found more nitrogen or more iron or I know it. But my eyes was able to perceive a change, a difference. And what's cool with that? That field, my grower told me was supposed to destroy it the day after I talked with him two weeks later or he text me and he told me, we finally harvest the field. I decided to keep it. I gave some natural spray. But I know it's not that I really know that that day that we went, something happened. And honestly, I forget the point. Very important. When I got the explanation of why my eyes were perceiving a greener color, I told myself, I'm gonna ask the field. And at the moment I asked the question the field, the letters told me, sorry, we cannot answer now because we have not so much time to be ready for the harvest in 10 days. So it's like, okay, we gonna heal. We're gonna be ready so that the grower can harvest us. Any harvest. Almost all the field, you know, it was almost 100%. Clearly there was some leaf on the bottom that with damage. And you know, the market was very, really low because many other growers have problem, but he was still able to harvest a quality of lettuce to sell it. And I'm clear that it started with with the new context we created me and my growing that let us hear us.

Wow, wow, wow. So you've described a number of different experiences in communicating with crops. And I think something that I've learned over the years is how important it is for growers to have a clear image of success and what success looks like for them in the context, just as you described, of not success in terms of money and boxes of produce in a cooler, but success in growing a crop to really support and sustain people. And I've observed that the growers who have a clear image of their crop sustaining humans tend to have Very strong successes in the field, very consistently so. All of these pieces and I think all the experiences that you must have had, Pascal, I'm sure have given you a very interesting perspective on agriculture and on food production. So a question that I have for you around that is what is something that you believe to be true about modern agriculture that is different from the mainstream view from what most people believe?

I think we put too much emphasis on the exterior versus what's inside. Second things I think we need not we need, but there is an opportunity to work with the nature instead of fighting it. And I'm clearly, I'm not judging, I'm just bringing some observation and some fact. You know, I've been working with conventional, if we call it conventional. And with organic grower I've saw good organic, bad organic, good conventional, bad conventional. I mean in a way to the result in the field. But sometime I saw organic grower fighting nature. They fight nature with natural product, but they fight nature. And I saw conventional grower using, you know, chemical fertilizer, but with love, with really trying to understand the nutrition of the plant. Really caring observing with really beautiful result. And I'm not saying that one is better that using chemical fertilizer is good or what I'm just saying is in what context are we doing the things are we embracing nature? And because you know, if we, if we are a grower, if you are a crop advisor, most of them, most of us more for of you, you do it because you like grow food, you like grow plants, can be animals too. Some doing for business. You know, agriculture is like a small society, you know, it's. There is no difference. There is entrepreneur with integrity and who love what they do. And there is some people who did just for the money. So in general, I think we fight too much the nature instead of working and creating a partnership and the opportunity to develop your awareness and your communication is just that. It's just a tool to fit with what I think agriculture should go. Going in the way that we build something, we are proud of what we do, we bring love, passion and that's it. And I think doing that the agriculture can just be positive. And you know, I was giving the example of the storm with my grower. Sometime nature I think remind us that whoa, take it easy, you're not going the right way. So it's not cool or comfortable at the moment. But that doesn't mean it's not that is supposed to happen for our own development or the development of the farm or the enterprise or the Agriculture that.

Is intriguing within the context of all the pieces that we've talked about. Pascal, what is a book or resource that you would recommend most often?

I don't have one specific. I would say if that interests you, look at the sign. In the next days, in the next week, someone gonna call you or someone gonna talk about a specific book, a new technique, life gonna show you the way clearly on the telepathic communication. Maya Kincaid in Soda now was someone who made a tremendous difference in my life. I am in a process also to develop my workshop and really spread that approach or that way of seeing life. But I would say another thing that I love too. It's a. It's an energetic technique. It's called Pranic healing. Healing with the Prana. It's an international course in about hundred country in the world. And it. It's a way also to develop your spirituality. But it's teach on any kind of religion or people without religion. Because the founder of this technique was a chemical engineer. And he developed his technique of understanding energy in a very practical and grounded way. I know the level one of that course predicating is made a huge impact in my understanding of my system being part of that system, explaining it as a fact. And after you can just expand and you know, add your own understanding and skill to improve it. But that's some example I have in mind. But I would say trust, have faith that the path gonna show if you ask it at a good time, but in the right way.

And I would add to that. I think there are two books very relevant to actually what we're speaking about which were very influential for me. One of them is titled the Lost Language of Plants. And the second one is titled the Secret Teachings of Plants, both by Steven Herad Buhner. And both of those are very good at describing the relationship aspect of the relationship that plants desire and that we can have and provide a very interesting perspective. Pascal, we've talked about many different and very exciting topics. What is a question that you wish I would have asked?

What do you eat for dinner? I don't know, I really. I am nothing specific. I really love the way you lead the interview. For me it was really an opportunity to just share my experiences. You know, I really appreciate who you are as a. As a person, as a consultant. I think you. You set up the table, the place with all your question that agriculture, it's not only about harvesting something, it's about living off some of a work just that can be just wonderful. And then with opportunity to evolve and to connect with something beautiful, that it's called life. And I have no specific question more than what you brought today.

Wonderful. Pascal, thank you very much for joining us. And thank you for sharing your stories and your examples. I'm very inspired and I'm sure many.

Other people will be as well.

Thank you very much, that's very kind.

The team at AEA and I are dedicated to bringing this show to you because we believe that knowledge and information is the foundation of successful regenerative systems. At aea, we believe that growing better quality food and making more money from your crops is possible. And since 2006, we've worked with leading professional growers to help them do just that. At aea, we don't guess. We measure, we test, we analyze and we provide recommendations Based on scientific data and knowledge and experience. We've developed products that are uniquely positioned to help growers make more money with regenerative agriculture. If you are a professional grower who believes in testing instead of guessing, someone who believes in a better, more regenerative way to grow, visit advancingecoag.com and contact us to see if AEA is right for you. Thank you for listening and we look.

Forward to working with you. Experienced so many things in my life. I accept the fact, okay, I'm not crazy, it's clearly greener. And I asked the question, okay, what happened? And what I got commensur was a course I've done in university. You know, in my course of agronomy, there was animal physiology and we were talking about the eyes, how the eyes perceive the light and the color. And it's only a question of frequency. I explained it the best way I can. But red, if you compare to blue, it is just a different frequency of energy. And in your eyes there is some specific part that can perceive those frequency and transfer the signal to the the brain. So with that reception of different frequency, we know what we call blue, we call yellow or red. Anyway, the more you have energy in yourself, the more your frequency gets higher. It's well documented by many researchers. So more energy, more frequency. My explanation that got validated by nature was as I was talking with my grower about what was possible. Imagine the letters that the field beside was listening. So without knowing, I was creating live a new context of existence for that field of lettuce. As the letters individually hear that, they get excited their level of energy. As you know, if you compare a human being depressed and fully joyful, you know which person has the more energy. That's the joyful person. So what I realized that by talking, I created a new context of existence for those lettuce. Their level of energy went up. So my eyes, in the eyes of my grower, perceive a different frequency. Still green, but a higher level of frequency of green. So we perceive it greener, darker greener. So I'm sure if I would have do a leaf analysis, I would not have found more nitrogen or more iron or I know it. But my eyes was able to perceive a change, a difference. And what's cool with that? That field, my grower told me was supposed to destroy it the day after I talked with him two weeks later, or he text me and he told me, we finally harvest the field. I decided to keep it. I gave some natural spray, but I know it's not that I really know that that day that we went, something happened. And honestly, I forget the point. Very important. When I got the explanation of why my eyes were perceiving a greener color, I told myself, I'm gonna ask the field. And at the moment I asked the question the field, the letters told me, sorry, we cannot answer now because we have not so much time to be ready for the harvest in 10 days. So it's like, okay, we gonna heal, we're gonna be ready so that the grower can harvest us any harvest. Almost all the field, you know, it was almost 100%. Clearly there was some leaf on the bottom that with damage. And you know, the market was very, really low because many other growers have problem, but he was still able to harvest a quality of lettuce to sell it. And I'm clear that it started with the new context we created. Me and my growing that let us hear us.

Wow, wow, wow. So you've described a number of different experiences in communicating with crops. And I think something that I've learned over the years is how important it is for growers to have a clear image of success and what success looks like for them in the context, just as you described, of not success in terms of money and boxes of produce in a cooler, but success in growing a crop to really support and sustain people. And I've observed that the growers who have a clear image of their crop sustaining humans tend to have very strong successes in the field very consistently. So all of these pieces and I think all the experiences that you must have had, Pascal, I'm sure, have given you a very interesting perspective on agriculture and on food production. So a question that I have for you around that is, what is something that you believe to be true about modern Agriculture that is different from the mainstream view from what most people believe.

I think we put too much emphasis on the exterior versus what's inside. Second things I think we need not we need, but there is an opportunity to work with the nature instead of fighting it. And I'm clearly, I'm not judging, I'm just bringing some observation and some fact. You know, I've been working with conventional, if we call it conventional. And with organic grower, I've saw good organic, bad organic, good conventional, bad conventional. I mean in a way to the result in the field. But sometime I saw organic grower fighting nature. They fight nature with natural product, but they fight nature. And I saw conventional grower using, you know, chemical fertilizer, but with love, with really trying to understand the nutrition of the plan, really caring, observing, with really beautiful result. And I'm not saying that one is better that using chemical fertilizer is good or what I'm just saying is in what context are we doing the things? Are we embracing nature? And because, you know, if, if we are a grower, if you are a crop advisor, most of them, most of us, more of you, you do it because you like grow food, you like grow plants, can be animals too. Some doing for business. You know, agriculture is like a small society, you know, it's. There is no difference. There is an entrepreneur with integrity and who love what they do. And there is some people who did just for the money. So in general, I think we fight too much the nature instead of working and creating a partnership and the opportunity to develop your awareness and your communication is just that. It's just a tool to fit with what I think agriculture should go. Going in the way that we build something, we are proud of what we do, we bring love, passion, and that's it. And I think doing that, the agriculture can just be positive. And you know, I was giving the example of the storm with my grower. Sometime nature, I think remind us that, whoa, take it easy, you're not going the right way. So it's not cool or comfortable at the moment. But that doesn't mean it's not that is supposed to happen for our own development or the development of the farm or the enterprise or the agriculture that.

Is intriguing within the context of all the pieces that we've talked about. Pascal, what is a book or resource that you would recommend most often?

I don't have one specific. I would say if that interests you, look at the sign. In the next days, in the next week, someone gonna call you or someone gonna talk about A specific book, a new technique life gonna show you the way clearly on the telepathic communication. Maya Kincaid in Sodona was someone who made a tremendous difference in my life. I am in a process also to develop my workshop and release spreadsheet that approach or that way of seeing life. But I would say another thing that I love too. It's a. It's an energetic technique. It's called Pranic healing, Healing with the Prana. It's an international course in about hundred country in the world. And it. It's a way also to develop your spirituality. But it's teach on any kind of religion or people without religion. But because the founder of this technique was a chemical engineer and he developed his technique of understanding energy in a very practical and grounded way. I know the level one of that course predicating made a huge impact in my understanding of my system being part of that system, explaining it as a fact. And after you can just expand and you know, add your own understanding and skill to improve it. But that's some example I have in mind. But I would say trust, have faith that the path gonna show if you ask it at a good time, but in the right way.

And I would add to that. I think there are two books very relevant to actually what we're speaking about which were very influential for me. One of them is titled the Lost Language of Plants. And the second one is titled the Secret Teachings of Plants, both by Steven Herad Buhner. And both of those are very good at describing the relationship aspect of the relationship that plants desire and that we can have and provide a very interesting perspective. Pascal, we've talked about many different and very exciting topics. What is a question that you wish I would have asked?

What do you eat for dinner? I don't know. I really, I am nothing specific. I really love the way you lead the interview. For me it was really an opportunity to just share my experiences. You know, I really appreciate who you are as a. As a person, as a consultant. I think you, you set up the table, the place with all your question that agriculture, it's not only about harvesting something. It's about living off some of a work just that can be just wonderful. And then with opportunity to evolve and to connect with something beautiful that is called life. And I have no specific question more than. Than what you. You brought today.

Wonderful. Pascal, thank you very much for joining us and thank you for sharing your stories and your examples. I'm very inspired and I'm sure many.

Other people will be as well.

Thank you. Very much. That's very kind.

The team at AEA and I are dedicated to bringing this show to you because we believe that knowledge and information is the foundation of successful regenerative systems. At aea, we believe that growing better quality food and making more money from your crops is possible. And since 2006, we've worked with leading professional growers to help them do just that. At aea, we don't guess, we measure, we test, we analyze, and we provide recommendations based on scientific data and knowledge and experience. We've developed products that are uniquely positioned to help growers make more money with regenerative agriculture. If you are a professional grower who believes in testing instead of guessing, someone who believes in a better, more regenerative way to grow, visit advancingecoag.com and contact us to see if AEA is right for you. Thank you for listening, and we look forward to working with you.