How regenerative agriculture farmers optimize crop performance | An open discussion with AEA

Well, hi, friends. Welcome to our webinar. This afternoon, this lovely day and the end of November. Our topic today, being led by David Miller, is on measuring and managing and optimizing plants and crops, thinking about next season's performance rather than just this season's performance. This is a very important topic because it's very common in the approach that we take to plant nutrition. When we think about using plant SAP analysis to think of this as managing this year's crop performance. But we actually can have a tremendous impact when we think about how does this data and information help us shift and change for next year's crop performance. So we have a really great panel here today. David Miller has been kind enough to lead this conversation with some of the growers that we have worked with here at aea. And we're going to have lots of fun. If you have any questions at any point for anyone on the panel or just general questions, feel free to type them in to the Q and A box. David is going to be monitoring that and we're just going to have a fun conversation, learning from all of our experiences and how we can improve and do things better. So thank you for being here. I'm sure you'll find the information very valuable and useful. And David, I'm going to turn it over to you.

Thank you, John, and welcome to everyone on the call here. A delight to be connecting with farmer friends, people who are producing food, which has been largely the reason that I've been with John for the last 10 years and just really passionate about the food we grow and the value that and the influence that all of you have on the wellbeing of the people consuming the food. So want to thank Joel and Zach and Steve, who are with us here today to share their story, share the things that they look at when they're measuring success, measuring even failures from this past year and how that helps them plan for the next year. So thank you to all of you for coming. And we invite all of you, the audience here, to just put your questions in the Q and A. And those questions can be for the whole panel. So we're looking forward to having a conversation. We'll just kick it off by a quick introduction from each of you panelists. Maybe we'll go by alphabetical order and have Joel, Steve, and then Zach, just give a quick introduction of yourself, a little bit of your operation, what you grow, and some of the goals that you have.

Hi, everyone. My name is Joel Grossbach. I live and farm in southwest Nebraska. We are on the high Plains in the rain shadow of the Rocky Mountains. We get about 18 to 19 inches of rain every year. We have sandy to silt loam soils. We have both irrigated and dry land, crop ground and systems. And we also have native pasture. My father runs a beef cow calf operation on that ground as well. I would say historically our major crop has been corn, although we are certainly looking to diversify that cropping system. So we include soybeans, grain, sorghum, wheat, oats, millet, and I think the primary crops that have really driven our regenerative journey here are popcorn and dry edible beans. As we're looking for a better way to raise those crops so that they're simply healthier and of a higher quality because they are our human food crops.

Great.

Thank you, Joel. Go ahead, Steve.

Well, hi everybody. David, thank you. Thank you, John. I have to, I have to admit it's a little intimidating to be on the same call with John Kemp. I look forward to meeting you guys someday. But my name is Steve Cockroft. My wife and family and I, we own and operate croft family farm just outside of Greeley, Colorado. So we're not probably that far away. Joel, didn't realize you were in, in southwest Nebraska. But we have 20 acres that we grow a wide variety of vegetables on and we also have chickens on pasture for egg production. One of our main goals at the farm and our big desire is to connect people with real food.

Great. Excellent.

Thank you, Steve.

Go ahead, Zach.

All right.

I am Zach Mater. I am from Grand Island, Nebraska, which is in the central part of the state. We are all irrigated mostly by pivot irrigation, some by gravity irrigation, a little bit of subsurface strip irrigation. We are all commodities on our farm, what I would call just raw commodities. My standard rotation would be soybeans and then to rye that I raised for seed, milo and corn. Milo is relatively new to me the last couple of years. I'm looking to diversify even further. I'm a fourth generation family farm that was a couple of thousand acres. And since then my cousin and my brother and I have kind of split off and are very amicable. We're all just, they wanted to go back to what was conventional agriculture. I kept my 8 or 900 acres and continuing down this path of regenerative ag, I would like to actually add in a real food production of some sort. Rather be berries or I'm already into the cow calf farm to table in the beef world in a small way, 30 or 40 pears. So I guess My goal moving forward would be to continue this. I want to get into more actual food production and out of commodity production.

Great, thank you.

Thank you.

And maybe we'll just kind of have you continue, Zach, with the story of how you, how did you get started.

On.

Regenerative practices and that you have seen thus far. So how did you start? What, what are you seeing thus far that gives you the hope or the intent to continue with that?

Right. So I went to no till on the plains many years ago, 10, 12, 15, I don't even know what it was. And I have been every year since. But, you know, from Dave Brandt to Rick Bieber to I just can't. Dwayne Beck, you name it. Gabe Brown, that was kind of where my introduction into what wasn't regenerative ag at the time, but was basically the world of no till. And so that was kind of my beginnings. I was hook, line and sinker from the get go. Some super brilliant people with super sharp minds doing different things. So that is kind of how I started and that's kind of where I'm moving. Great.

Excellent. And what about you, Steve?

Well, we've been using organic fertilizers and farming in a regenerative way for about 12 years now. But really that way of thinking got planted in our minds, you know, more than 30 years ago. My oldest son, Jason, he's 31 and he is a special needs autistic kid. And 25, 30 years ago, as we were in that journey of trying to figure out what is wrong with this kid, what are his needs, how can we help him? And we found that diet and nutrition were some of the biggest things that either affected him very positively or very negatively. So in that journey that changed us, we farmed for years with relatives and my uncle farmed conventionally. And you know, you just, you grew up spraying glyphosate, spraying 2,4D. That was just how we, how we grew up and didn't think anything of it. Well, my son's condition changed how we viewed food, realizing that food mattered and what you put in your mouth mattered and the purity of the food matter and the freshness of the food mattered. And so all of this began us on a journey that basically started with trying to help our son that led us to this place. So because of his challenges, when the opportunity to farm our own ground presented itself in 2010, we already knew that we were going to be growing in a pure and organic way.

Great.

Wow. Nothing more powerful than having experiences like that that just teach us the Effect of what we eat is what we are. My story of how I got started with this is very similar to that of a health crisis. Changing that.

Yeah, great.

Joel, what is your story? What started you down this path?

I think I have to credit my father. Even 25, 30 years ago, he was starting to see weaknesses in the system. And so even back then, we transitioned over into no till, which was sort of a new thing because we got tired of watching the dirt blow. And so we could already start this thinking that if we can identify problems and maybe it's part of our system, and so we maybe don't change very fast, but we've always tried to look one step ahead and identify those weaknesses in our system. But really, in 2017, I had an opportunity to raise some organic crops. And I went into that really not having any idea what I was doing. Especially coming from a conventional fertilizer and chemical world, I went hunting for all kinds of information and knowledge. And of all the people out there and all the good information that you can glean from it, probably two really key points that I learned in that experience was that healthy plants will be resistant to insects and diseases. And a lot of the conventional way of fertilizing and raising crops actually contributed to those problems that we're trying to avoid or to solve. And so even though I'm not doing any organic production today, it almost became a matter of conscience that, well, I just can't go back to the way I was doing things before. And especially when we consider the popcorn and the edible beans. That's a human food crop, and I want to make sure that that is done well. And those two crops traditionally are very heavenly reliant on. On chemical inputs. And so, like I say, it became almost a matter of conscience that I just can't return to the way I was doing things, and I've got to develop a better way. And so now this is expanding to be really the whole farm. And how does this look as a big picture with. With rotations and inputs and livestock and whatever crops we raise. So, wow.

Wow. Thanks to your dad. Seeing that long ago, it's powerful to think what that means for the choices we make today for our sons. All things do make a big difference.

Yeah.

So, as the title suggests, measuring and.

Managing.

This year's data so we can plan for next year, I'd like to kind of dive into that topic. We know that one of the common metrics for evaluating success in agriculture is yield. Looking at bins and bushels and tons per acre and you know, just that's, that's the ultimate evaluation of whether you're a good farmer or not, a good farmer or a successful farmer or not.

And.

From, from where I sit and what I've been able to observe, it appears to me like there's a lot of growers that are farming. The inflation of the land value, that's what allows them to continue farming. But when they actually look at the profitability, it's kind of a guessing game as to where they are. And, and part of the challenges is, you know, the profit and loss is a bit more complicated than just purchasing in, you know, materials and manufacturing and putting it back out. And it's all just clean lines. You have, you know, hailstorms, you have a 10 year average. You have, you know, there's lots of things to look at when we consider success on an operation. So maybe we could start there and just, you could share with us what, what are you looking at when you evaluate and what do you consider success in the, you know, in the short term, but then also maybe in the long term, how do you think about success of your operation? Steve, maybe you could lead out on this one.

Okay, well, this, this might be a little unconventional because we're, you know, we sell, we sell a lot, we service a lot of markets in northern Colorado area, a lot of restaurants in the Denver area, etc. And so we're in touch with a lot of different people who are aware of what good health maybe looks like and are striving for that. And so this, this, this metric.

I.

Guess I said earlier, you know, one of our goals is to connect people with real food. Well, that statement right there is confusing and possibly inflammatory. You know, people say, well, if you've got a plant growing in the ground and you pick something off it, that's real, right? Well, not necessarily. Okay. And so when I am talking about real food, I'm talking about food that has dynamic flavor because it's full of life and nutrition. That's, that's my definition of real food. And there's, there's a lot more to that. But one of the main things, okay, I say this is unconventional. I think it, it hits a part of the answer, though, that needs to be heard and talked about because I've experienced this and as I interact, you know, directly with our markets and get to talk to people face to face about things. But taste, okay, taste is one of those metrics that I use and that we use to tell if we're doing a good job or not. I Believe taste is telling us something. I believe it's an indicator of nutrients. If it tastes good, I believe it is good. And SAP testing, which I want to talk about later on in the podcast, has really proven this to me, that when you have healthy looking plants because you're feeding them well and you're taking care of the soil, you end up with this dynamic flavor. So consequently, I literally taste almost everything before we harvest to make sure if it's ready. The carrots, sweet, you know, are things right? Did they get enough water, this kind of thing? Because I really am a firm believer that taste and nutrition go hand in hand. You know, we have a lot of people today that don't like to eat produce because it doesn't taste good. And interesting enough, I found that if someone doesn't like tomatoes, for example, chances are they've never had a real one. Okay. And if their experience with tomatoes is a grocery store tomato that was picked green in California and was gas ripened to give it some color, well, then I understand why they don't like tomatoes. Because, okay, that's, that's a prime example of fake food versus real food. But when you give them the opportunity to taste a vine ripened, fresh picked heirloom tomato, nine times out of 10, they have a change of mind. And I have a number of people who have begun eating real food because it tastes good. They've reconnected with real food because of the taste. So I love giving people that experience of real food. You know, not only do I gain a new customer through that experience, but through great taste. You know, I've potentially given them the gift of feeling better, having more energy because they're eating real food. And I think to maybe wrap up my thoughts on this, I think at some point in time, as growers, you know, as I'm speaking to growers and farmers, we need to ask ourselves this question. Why are we growing things? Are we growing things just to make money or to increase a profit margin? Or are we growing things because they're actually good for people to eat? And I believe that question puts a tremendous responsibility on those of us who are farmers to grow food in the best possible way.

Agreed. Yeah, that's. That's very powerful. So taste is wonderful, Steve. I totally understand. That makes perfect sense. But now how does that equate to profitability? What, what are, what are your experiences in how better taste, better flavor? Because at the end of the day, if, if you do all of that and yet your banker or your financial advisors say, sorry, better sell the farm, you know, you're bankrupt. That's, that's, you know, that's the metric. That's also a metric that needs to be added on that layer of flavor and taste. So I'm just, I'm curious what your experience has been in that.

With.

How does taste and flavor and your focus and goal on that equate to the financial side of it.

Well, obviously, if you're, if you have something that tastes good, people are going to buy it. They're going to be attracted to that product, and they're going to reconnect with food. You're going to gain more customers. But I'm glad you asked that, because. Let me just highlight one of the crops on our farm that we were struggling with, and that was our heirloom tomatoes. Our environment, as Joel knows, out west here, is very harsh. You know, we deal with altitude, which equates to intense sun, blasting winds, cold nights, hot days. Tomatoes hate all that. So we've moved all of our tomatoes inside in a high tunnel scenario. Still growing in soil. I believe in growing in living soil, but we were struggling with that program. And so three years ago, we connected with aea, I believe it was through an ACRES conference of some sort. And I was very intrigued with their SAP testing program that they offered, that you guys offered, and was hoping that that could help us dial in some better results. So three years ago, we jumped into that program, began to take the leaf samples or the petiole samples and started SAP testing. I have been very happy with those results and also the consultation that comes with it. There's been or there such a huge improvement in the last three years in our tomato programs, in the plant and fruit and in production. That last year I decided to actually keep track of what we were doing. So we weighed every tomato. We have a particular hoop house that we dedicate and rotate crops. We have several houses, but we dedicate one to tomatoes every year. And we weighed every tomato coming out of that house from 2020 to 2021. We had a 23% increase in production to give you some solid numbers. Now, I don't know what it was in 19. I think we were close to that in 19. So that's how. How much we were struggling with some of our soil issues, salinity and, and all kinds of stuff. You know, anybody who's grown tomatoes, very needy crop, very hungry crop, very feed me this right now kind of a crop, or, you know, you don't have a month to adjust. You know, you've got to adjust Immediately. So it's that kind of crop. Yes. So I have to say that the one thing that I was not expecting by SAP testing was the education that that gave to me. It's helped me to recognize certain nutritional needs and make feeding adjustments before plants become stressed or set back. And for us the. When you're looking at, you know, a potential, there's a lot of potential. Tomatoes can be a high dollar crop. If you have the market, there's a lot of potential there. And the cost of SAP testing was minimal. But in the education was unexpected, number one and powerful. Just absolutely powerful to where I was learning to recognize some of those needs within that particular crop. I also want to say that we use a variety of fertilizers and organic fertilizers on the farm. And a fertilizers have been very effective for us. You know, initially we just use them on the tomatoes we started. We do some trellis cucumbers as well. We use them on those. Those are kind of a similar crop with a lot of needs and very hungry and it can be a tough manage if you're going for high production this year. We just. I don't have any comparison numbers but it's very satisfied. We did start keeping track of some of our, our high tunnel trellis cucumbers where I'll have some numbers next year to share with as far as comparison. But been very happy with the results of that. But that your fertilizers or AA as far as dialing things in is leading the charge now on how we feed things at the farm. And quite honestly in some way or another, whether that's through fertigation or foliar, we're using those fertilizers on every part of the farm at this point.

Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Joel, let's go with you on that same question of how do you think about success? When you think success, what is that? What's it mean to you and how are you measuring that?

Yeah, I think with these broad acre crops, ultimately I'm not direct selling specifically, but these are contracted crops. There is a certain level of quality and standard that the processors are looking for. And I'm going to include wheat in this topic too. We raised some seed wheat for or a local seed cleaner, for example wheat. They're really concerned about test weight which for them translates into a better quality seed that they can sell for popcorn. They're looking for a kernel that's going to pop well and have a good visual appearance and have a large kernel and for edible Beans, they want consistent bean that is easier to clean and that they don't have to tear out and has a good visual appeal and shelf life. So those are all factors that we can chase. And again, unfortunately, at this point, it all gets put in the same bin and they process and sell it. Still working on that from my end of it. But it is satisfying to know that, well, your seaweed had had two points heavier test weight this year. And so that's a better quality for me. For the seed producer, the popcorn, it looks good, it pops well, it tastes good, it's a tender, it has a tender texture to it. And the edible beans, well, there's not a lot of clean out that we have to worry about. So that's probably general factors that we can actually influence and chase after. And again with the SAP testing and the nutrient balances that we can work on those things, specifically in field popcorn is notorious for its lack of stock strength. I unfortunately like to say that. I don't like to say that, you know, popcorn is ready to harvest when it falls over. And so it's a real challenge, can be a challenge to harvest. But we've noticed when we manage the nitrogen on our popcorn, in fact greatly reduce it, that popcorn is using biologically active soil, available calcium and carbon to drive the system instead of nitrogen. You end up with a much stronger and healthier plant. Initially, David, I think we looked at some of those comparisons between a conventional nitrogen program and a more conservative nitrogen program. And those, those first inner nodes down at the base of the stalk were much more tightly compacted and stronger with limited nitrogen. And that field stood to harvest. And so for me, that harvestability is a huge factor. And then of course, with edible beans, just not having to apply some sort of pesticide every 10 days during pod fill is just better for everybody. And I mean, we certainly pay attention to them and managing the nutrition through harvest. But we're not out there with something dangerous all the time. And they respond very well to that. Managed nutrition.

Great, Joel.

And I'd like to follow that with a similar question that I had for Steve. You, your, your crops are contracted, you have a certain price, and you probably get a dock or get paid a slightly lower price if you don't meet those quality metrics. But then above and beyond, you know, you're not really being rewarded for these efforts. So when you, when you think about the profit and the finance, where are you getting rewarded for? You know, for, for the things that you're doing. And you had better stock strength. Great and better harvest ability. Do you have any, Are you, are you measuring like what, what factors that persuade you that there's economical sense in, in moving this direction of regenerative agriculture?

Well, and I guess let's back this up maybe another step, maybe to a bigger picture even at least for my operation. This goes beyond just using a different fertilizer for a specific crop. Really. I have to look also at multiple years at a crop rotation at the entire system.

So.

I think it's a real challenge on my sandy ground under a center pivot to raise a consistent corn crop every year. That is not a sustainable regenerative practice. But if I can develop that sustainable crop rotation that has a better understanding and realization of our resource concerns in southwest Nebraska rather than trying to farm corn like they might in Illinois and raising crops that are more appropriate for our area and that are going to be more consistent through drought and hail and wind and tempest and fire. And that's probably the profitability angle that I'm looking at over a long term what is consistent and how can we use that rotation to set ourselves up for high popcorn or edible beans or these really high dollar high value crops that can then benefit from that multi year rotation and so that we're not throwing everything every year at these high dollar crops and maybe burning the system out. It's a long term thinking when it comes to that nature of it. Does that answer your question?

Yes.

Yes. Okay.

Great.

Well, let's, let's, let's hear Zach's to this question of success. Evaluating success and measuring that.

Measuring for me, both of you two, that was super well done. I'm a visual person and I'm also a, to some degree, I guess a risk taker. I kind of went for let's see how fast I can find the bottom and then let's build this deal back up in a roundabout way. I mean it's been a slow process, but there I got to a point in time where I mean we haven't added phosphorus, potash, you name it. Anything? No. Fungicides? No. You know, I'm still hooked on the herbicides in a roundabout way, but anyhow, so I tried to essentially crash the system. I had to stay viable. Let's not kid ourselves. I do owe a bank money and I am responsible to pay them back. But so I think I've found the bottom and now I'm working my way back up. I'm one that's willing to like take that chance. What can I do on zero. And I've done that on multiple pieces and not one or two or three acres, but on 30 or 60 or 80 acres, what does zero do for me multiple years in a row, it's pretty amazing what you can actually do with zero, which kind of gives me hope. You know, I kind of told you it was the no till on the plains deal. And looking at the. Going back to the days of the prairie and you know how all this. Look at my road ditches, they never get harvested. They grow. Grow their green. So that's kind of, that's kind of how I view life in a roundabout way and life on my farm, you know, a couple of instances, I can tell you we do, I do seed rye and have been for multiple years. It started off as for me, it was something. It was a cover crop. Then we got cattle, we could graze it all. So now it's actually part of my rotation. I come in with a big mix of seeds, we graze it. In fact, I just pulled my cows off the last couple of days and brought them to corn stalks. But part of, part of where I'm going with this is we sell this seed, have it tested. You know, my, my germ is very, very good on my rye with no inputs. And I've been doing this for 8, 9, 10 years. And it is like upper 90s, 97, 98, 99% with no chemicals, no fertilizer. I plant it and I harvest it, period. I do clean my own seed. But the second aspect there is when I graze that cover crop or my stocks, I'm a naturalist. My cattle fend for themselves. They do not get fed unless we have some terrible winter event where they need supplemented. But it has to be really bad. And they do super good in a, in a year with 30 or 40 head, I may spend 100, 200, $300 in vet expense. That's it. I mean, I almost never have problems. The only, the only creatures I've lost in my system are ones that I brought in from an outside, you know, by 3, 4, 5 here or there. And they're from a little bit of a different place. But, you know, in seven or eight years, we've lost very, very few. The livestock is very, very healthy. My brother and I are running almost 80 or 90 head. We have 80 acres of pasture. Is it. And that sounds like that number doesn't match up. But we use rye into May, sometimes into June for them to graze. It compresses our window of pasture life. When I take off the cereal grain in the first or second week in July, in 45 days, we have a really nice. A really nice crop of stuff for them to graze. And we can get away. We can graze it all the way through January most of the time. And you're looking at a quarter or maybe two. So we're not talking huge expanse acres, but the livestock part of the deal is partially how I measure some of this. They do very well. You know, for me, a corn yield is down from where it was seven, eight, ten years ago. I'm all right with that. I really honestly want to sign the backs of more check or the backs of more checks. And I'm measuring some of my success in that. Honestly, I'm all right without long term having to continue to pay for everything that's out there. And a lot of my crops I'm raising right now are specialty crops. Seed is provided for me, trucking is provided. I found a couple of nice niche markets. And as you go along, more of this stuff, that stuff either falls into your lap or somebody hears about, oh, here's what you're doing. There are some really neat things out there that you can do. And, you know, for me, a lot of this also comes back to. I have kids that are in high school. At some point in time, I would like to bring them back to the farm and, you know, what is the next enterprise for me? I want to do something like Steve's doing. I think that's beautiful and it's awesome. Can we produce real food? Farm to table, pick your own, clean it up with pasture raised pork, which John has been talking about. A lot of this stuff is. And I think it would be a great avenue for me to bring my kids back because under our conventional system, it wasn't happening. We had too many mouths feeding off of a couple of thousand acres. And so this, this is a way for me to do something on a smaller scale that's more viable and I think is better just for people in general.

Great.

Excellent. Excellent. Any of you guys have questions for each other in any of those responses? All right, great. So there's different scenarios, different crops you're growing, different reasons why you got started, from health to opportunity to just, you know, something new.

So.

I'd be interested to hear. This is not maybe so much on the. It is actually on the measuring because you can. You can go to a bank and you can, you know, put together a good plan and float a good story for a couple years, say three years or five years, and kind of get by with it. But what are you Seeing like what's one or two things that you see that you're persuaded that this is the long term future? This is what I can see my children doing this, or grandchildren or this is the right way to go and success from more of a macro perspective than from an immediate financial perspective? Maybe. Yeah. What are a point or two or three that come to your mind that you've either seen or that you're that convinced you in such a way that you've not turned around and turned back to chemical agriculture and spraying insects? Steve, you want to lead on that one?

Well, that might be a hard question for me to answer. I mean, we, we were committed from the beginning to growing organically. We were certified for a while and then got. Got tired of too much government oversight that didn't fit my personality, so. But still committed to that kind of growing. I think the term regenerative agriculture is, is the better term. But we never did use chemicals on the farm. You know, the beautiful thing about this place is that it had been set idle for about 20 years, so it was immediately certifiable. We had a lot of weeds to clean up and a lot of those kind of things. And that's been very challenging to work with some of those issues. But we had never experienced personally that transition from conventional aggressive to what we're doing now. You know, we always had that commitment and we've just built on that from the beginning.

Wonderful. What about you, Joel?

Yeah, I think, well, let's talk about fertilizer prices, or rather if you don't want to, we don't have to. But it's, it is sort of an interesting position to be in where, sure, I'm going to have to buy some fertilizer next year, but because the system, the regenerative system is beginning to develop and with the crop rotations and the different way of managing fertility, I know I'm going to have to buy fertilizer, but it's not like all my hope is found in fertilizer that I have to buy from a conventional fertilizer place, beginning to understand how these crops actually grow with a biological system. And so it just isn't a concern. And I think in our area in southwest Nebraska, we've been able to raise a lot of corn under irrigation and been very successful at it. But there is a growing sense that it's not going to last forever and that it's whether it could be the weather, it could be the politics of our water supply. It's going to be the politics of the Corn and soybean markets in the general global market that starting to move in a direction that actually acknowledges the limits of our environment and the limits of our resources is a very freeing and comforting thing. It's very grounding to just be able to understand that, okay, my sand does not raise 250 bushel corn every year, and it's probably not responsible of me to spend the money to import the resources to do that. So I need to go down a different direction, and that's. That takes a change in mindset that I have to be open to growing something else, to doing something else. I. To be honest, I've always been a crop guy. I like sitting in my tractor, and my father has been the cattle person. But we're in an environment where livestock and cattle have a significant role to play, and we're trying to figure out even how the conventional approach to raising livestock in southwest Nebraska might be flawed. How do we change that so that we're taking advantage of the resources that we have here? And again, it's not. We're not overrunning our headlights or overshooting our skis or whatever phrase you want to use. It's being realistic about where we are and knowing that making these changes now, I don't have kids in high school. I've got kids six and under. Knowing that it is worth making those changes to our own system now.

So.

That there's something here because it is a good place to raise a family. And so ultimately, that's why we're doing this, right? It's for our family, for our kids, and for the next generation.

So.

I don't even remember what the question was.

That's a perfect answer, man. That's perfect.

Yeah.

That's very good. I want to hear Zach's answer, and I want to come back to a comment you made there.

So, Zach, David, I hate to tell you this. I'm gonna have to ask you to re. Ask that question. After listening to both of those two, I'm trying to. I'm like, okay, what did. What was the question here?

Well, let me think. So, as you look at the longer term, the bigger picture, what's something that you have seen.