Leadership Through Horse-Powered Healing

Do you want to know the secret to Success? Welcome to rulesforsuccess.com a platform that unites the accomplished and the ambitious. This is where successful entrepreneurs reveal their winning strategies, their profound wisdom, and their practical guidance. Whether you are a pioneering entrepreneur, a determined business leader, or simply someone who craves success, RulesForSuccess.com is the podcast designed for you. We're here to arm you with the invaluable knowledge of individuals who have paved their own path to success. And now let's get into the show with dynamic host Joseph Varghese. Hi, friends. Joseph Varghese here. RulesForSuccess.com I'm excited for our next episode of our podcast. For rulesforsuccess.com I've got a friend of mine who I've gotten to know over the past couple of weeks. Her name is. Her name is Jen Zoe Hall. Jen Zoe Hall. She does something unique and extraordinary, especially in alignment of this world of leadership and growth. As many of you know, I lead community success circles, focus on the idea of 1% progress each day adds up quite a bit. That's oftentimes being in communication with extraordinary human beings who are out to make a difference in the world, who are mission driven. And Jen is somebody I've gotten to connect with and she gave me a tour recently virtually of some of the things that she's creating with horses. She's out, based in Florida, super excited. So. So Jen is the horse. Jen hall is a hors brewer from a small town in southeast Missouri. Jen Zoe hall had been fascinated with horses. Her first experiences was riding a Budweiser Clydesdale at the age of four. Her career with horses, however, did not begin until the age of 30. This is also a milestone year. I won't mention the that year, the year it is because we're both the exact same age. It's really cool. And she's gone to do extraordinary things. She's worked with Tony Robbins. She's been a platinum partner in that community. She's immersed herself in understanding the deeper way horses teach humans. And after years of research and training, Jen launched Zenergen and her equine assisted personal development programs using horses rescued from abuse and neglect to help transform lives of people. With her own stories, Jen is now looking to move to a new facility where she can continue this critical mission to save more than 80,000 horses. And we're going to go into this whole conversation soon. But she brings horses, she brings the world of horses into person, development, leadership, which excites me, which Fascinates me. It's something that I'm personally not. Haven't been exposed. I've probably ridden a horse maybe once or twice in my life, but I've never had that experience. What's also cool is that in this incredible facility that she lives in, her horses can walk in. She has five horses. They can walk in at any time. They can be part of the conversation. And so we can. We can see that maybe if we're lucky, we're just a little lucky. She might even give us a tour of her whole campus. What of this incredible retreat that she's created. So you can take a peek of what's there in the event you're interested in checking out one of her fabulous, incredible retreats that I've heard a lot of great things about. So, Jen, welcome to Rules for Success. How are you today? What's going on?

I mean, life couldn't be any better. And what a. What a great introduction to exactly. What I'm doing is, you know, changing lives to the spirit of the horse. So thank you so much for having me here. Actually, it's just not just me. I've got my little mascot here. This is Tuesday. She's one of my horses that I have taken. She was actually an orphan when I got her, and so I'm very excited to share a little bit about what she's got bringing to the table or if she's coming to the table. She just wants. She just wants carrots. But there's a lot of great things to. To unpack today, and I'm super excited to be a part. So thank you.

Yeah, of course.

For having me a part of your podcast.

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's beautiful having Tuesday and maybe a few other horses on Thursday and Friday and Saturday.

Yeah.

This is a new, new experience for me, being able to do this and also have. Being able to see and kind of partake in that. And I think in the future, with a lot of this stuff, people can kind of put the 3D glasses on, be part of your experience virtually and hang out.

We're already there, my friend. We are already there. We have some really great things coming down the pipe with what we're able to do to not only provide the depth of what these horses can teach you. Look at her little teeth. She is actually technically a miniature horse. But they can teach you so many things. All of us want to, like, be out in nature these days. We want to get outside and, you know, post pandemic. We're really understanding the value of getting Back with nature and reconnecting with Earth. And these horses, they are nature in its finest form. And they can teach you some really incredible things about focus and alignment and being in cohesive, in a cohesive state, as when you're there, man, you make some. You make good decisions when you're. When you're aligned and feeling good and high vibration and willing to receive or bad decisions. I mean, come on. That's an absurd question to make my point. Like when you come out with these horses. And again, thank you for such a clear introduction of what it is we do here.

Yes.

And. And each of the horses will actually have their own personality. Like this one. Like, she. She's my little. She looks. She's got her little. She's in the house and she's doing her thing. She's her own. Of course, I'm. I'm giving her carrots. I'm kind of bribing her today, but that's okay because she wants. She's such a cute little character. But each one has their own personality. Some of us are more introverted, some of us are more extroverted. And what are the values that each one of those Personas. Because what ends up happening is unless you were in alignment.

Yes.

What the conventional wisdom says you should be. Which back in the industrial age, you know, the Rockefellers and all of that, they were like, we want to teach the school systems to create what. Right. Kids that know how to learn by sitting still, being quiet, paying attention, taking good notes, and doing what we tell them, rather than teaching them how to think. Right. So that when you come into this perspective and you look at it from. From how. From horses, it's like you can force them. You can, like.

Incredible.

It's really creative that way, you know.

So I want to unpack a number of things. You said we're going to go deeper into your journey. There's a lot to unpack, especially with the world of, you know, horses. And these are not pets. These are. These are. These are other creatures who can teach us extraordinary things. And I'm just mesmerized by a lot of that. So we talked about the nature of experiences being present to these animals, Even human conditioning, human behavior. Something I've learned over the years is the nature of the prefrontal cortex and that we have different kind of. We have different type of personality types. We mentioned a little bit about before. I know you've got a personality process with what you're doing with the horses. Like, that's a lot aligned with the popular Disc process. Dis Process.

Yeah. So this is a really good way to look at it. It's like if you've ever done a disc profile or a Myers Briggs or, you know, there's a lot of them out there. You know, you name, you know, pick your, pick your poison. But when you do it with a horse, it's a little different. You know, they show up as a pure reflection in real time as to, as to what is happening in your life. And you know, whatever the adaptive is, whether it's your environment or if, you know, if you're showing up with, in a different learning environment or a different leader environment or when you're with yourself. Like, this one's really self confident. This little one, she's like, I'm opinionated and I know it because I've encouraged that with her. Can you imagine what it would be like if we didn't have to say no? If we could just continually and positively, with no commas, redirect the, the conversation. Right. And, and build that confidence in each other and that's, that's the different way of looking at learning.

Yes.

Whether you're a young person or an adult.

So what got you on this journey? So you mentioned, I mentioned before that you had an experience at age 4 early on with horses. Oh yes. And you've gone through a whole like. So people can watch your TED Talk. If you have a TED Talk. You probably have done dozens of podcasts in the p. In the past, but people who don't know you. Let's see people in my community which, which a lot of my clients tend to be entrepreneurs who are very growth minded, growth oriented entrepreneurs. Please relate to them. Like your journey that got you where you are now, building this retreat center, teaching leadership. You, you've gone through some challenges over the years, right. And ups and downs. And then coming back to being with his horses. Right. And, and, and, and Wolsey go, who.

Who hasn't like had challenges, you know, and, and, and I, I, I think about that a lot because we tend to have an issue when it comes to actually dealing with certain challenges. I was on a speaker panel one time where I, there was a woman who'd been through some really horrific things. I was like, oh God, I hope I don't follow that, you know, because part of my story was about some of the challenges that I'd face. I'm like, well wait a minute, what if I just focused on only the good? And this comes back to, and you were talking about that and you about, you know, Leadership is like taking those steps, right. You take those little baby steps. I say big vision, baby steps. Right? Baby step. Baby step. Like. Like the, the analogy of the boiling frog.

Yes.

So, you know, if you've ever know frogs are amphibians, they adapt to their environment. And if you are clever enough and sadistic enough to, you can take the water temperature and turn it up slowly enough to that frog actually boiling instead of jumping out of the pot. So. And there's a lot of different ways to look at it from the perspective of, you know, you got to have a product where you go the. Actually a little bit more pain would be better because that would motivate them or inspire them or make a change. Right. So when you look at that with the. The experience with the horses, the horses will tell you what change you need to make. Is it some kind of something that is a focus that you're missing? Is it something that, like over here, Tuesdays over here, like really distracting me. But how do you stay really in alignment and focus? I wish I had a B roll camera right now saying, like, what kind of optimal am I being like, don't eat this carrot. Come over here. Pay att. So you. They're all. All are faced with those things. But don't hang your value on your challenges.

Yeah.

You know, it is not about what hardships you've went. You've gone through. And I think about it when people say, you know, it's not, you know, and it's tough because the personal development world tends to like, sort of exemplify that. Like, oh, look how. How much of a hard time this person has been through and they've risen from the ashes and now they're know they're Superman. But if you were to just say, do you have to have gone through all of that? Now the cool thing is, is that I look at my horses and all of them have been through some kind of trauma. Whether it's a physical trauma or I have different stories of, you know, like this one, she was. Her mother attacked her. The. The little one's mother attacked her. And we had to actually take her away. So she instantly became an orphan. So whatever your story is, how are you taking that and repainting that as for your future and what pieces of. Stop it now she's causing real trouble. He's like coming over here, they want.

They want your attention.

So she. But it's the. It's the key piece of understanding where you're coming from. Like, you want. What part of your old story do you want to actually be a part of your new story of where do you want to actually be a part of the past being a, a value add for your future?

And how do you, how do you, how do you bond that together at your events, your sensors, how do you bring that together? So someone comes to your center and they're teaching leadership. They're different horses, different personality types with horses. They get to ride the horses, perhaps. And you mentioned before the nature of focus, which I'm very passionate about, by the way. I, I'm all about helping entrepreneurs who might have a little bit of ADHD learn how to master focus, make progress. So there's aspects of that that are there. How do you bind.

What a great example. If that's your, if that's who you're talking to, what a great example. I have a £300 horse here, distracting me, biting my cord and doing all this stuff. How can you be like, this is, you know, not let it be something that is a destructive distraction? You know, how can you use that to say more? See?

Ah. And I, I mean my whole experience of you today, I mean before the session started, just like the amount of love you have exuding out of your heart toward these animals, it's, it's, I mean, it's like I. Two young ones, two children and it's, it's that. It's like unconditional love, unwavering love. That's their instant forgiveness for that. Right. And then like, like. And there, there are lessons here to teach me.

Yeah.

And always. That's, that's, that's very inspiring. Especially, you know, you mentioned personalities and focus and like, do you teach people how to ride? Is that part of the, it's a part of the, like the retreat center. Like, how does that work?

The, the part with it. That's actually such a great question because we, you know, we keep coming back, you know, talking about scope, like you could do this like virtually. I have a lot of great. I've an online university and virtual programs and trainings and things that you can do. Even, even, you know, some of my masterminds are like that. But at the same time, you have to look at how do I take people, you know, and make and, and, and set it up to where I have a train, the trainer type of process. So do I train people how to ride? Man, I have a hard time saying no. So the answer is yes. But that's not the question. You're asking the wrong question. It is really. Where do we have the privilege? Where have we earned the right to have the privilege of riding these horses and being on their backs because I believe that you can be on their backs and ride them and experience them in a natural way that is, that is exciting for as. Just as exciting for them as it is for you. You know, when I like the little one, she's been, she's kind of the star of the show. She's. She pulls a carriage and it can actually, she's strong enough to pull like two full size adults, you know, so. And guess what? She loves it. So do I teach horseback riding? No, I don't think that's the right question. Do I teach you how to develop a relationship where you have and experience to interact with the horse while being mounted? Yes, I teach that.

Amazing. Amazing. So it's kind of like learning how to engage. I mean, you're like the horse whisperer. Like, that's why I see you. It's about learning how to engage and communicate with these animals. Where there's trust, right?

Yes.

And building that trust. We learn about ourselves too in the process of that too as well. Would you say that?

Yeah, absolutely. And here's the big domino. Everything you do with a horse, you're doing with people too. Tony Robbins says how you do the little things is how you do everything else. How you do. And listen, I'll repeat this if you need me to. How you do things with a horse is how you do everything in life when it comes to relationships.

Wow.

It is a pure reflection. Not some kind of fun house mirror because you went to some rah rah seminar, but a pure reflection of how you are showing up to everyone in your life. And when you see it in a. As a mirror with no ego and only love and, and benevolence from this divine lightning rod called a horse, which is a naturer in its purest form.

Right.

You will get answers to your. The soul's questions that you never even knew needed to be asked. And you'll get a level of clarity, peace and serenity that will you will carry for the rest of your life. And you'll never forget the horse that chose you.

How has that. Like, what have you learned yourself as a leader doing this work? What has it opened you up to? Of course you're, you're passionate about this retreat center and building us out and impacting people. But what has it taught you, like on your own journey, like, and give people maybe a glimpse of that.

Stay, stay young. Stay weird. Stay goofy, Be playful. Don't worry about the money. It'll all come. Don't worry about anything. Just be a weirdo.

Love it. I love it.

You know, eat it. Eat the. Eat the cotton candy. I have an autographed copy of Jamie Kern Lima's book Worthy over here on my dining room table. I'm reading it with my mastermind. And Tuesday's over here trying to chew on it. And I'm like, I'm not gonna tell her no. Sorry, Jamie. My horse is not going to get told no.

Yes.

So just, just like, be, be that fun, playful. If I were to say anything to anybody, just praise source and creator God.

Yes.

Whatever your religion is and say, what can I do today to align.

So perfect? And I'm excited. Maybe we'll take a tour of your. Of your. Your farm retreat center soon as well also. So I'm excited.

Absolutely. I'd love to. I'm in West Palm Beach, Florida. I'm just south of West Palm Beach. I'm a place called Wellington, Florida. There's a. An enormous. A very, very large amount of horses here. Okay. I can't. I can't with this face. Are you kidding? He's so stinking cute.

A.

But. Yeah. And it's just. And. And all of these horses are like this. Every single one. Just like every single one of you, you. You have this in you. You have this ideology in you to be like, loving and fun and playful and giving. And what is more attractive than fun and loving and playful and giving? Yeah, that's like, that's. That's the most attractive thing in the world. You got a horseplay.

So our tagline for success circles my ventures is about play. Dare to play bigger. That's our tagline. And the idea of that is that's all game. All. If the more we enjoy it, the game of life, whether it's working business, building things out in business, making sales calls, going out with family, it's all play. When we see this play and enjoy that journey because it's play, it makes life a lot easier and releases stress, releases attachment, and we're able to make progress because it's all play. And like, I love how you framed all that with, with, with. With Tuesday over there. Because it's just love and play and progress and, you know, I imagine the people who come to your retreat centers experience all of that. Give us some.

Yes, always play. We know. It's always. It's always. We gamify everything. We gamify everything. Yes.

I love it. Some of my most. I've invested a lot over the years in trainings some of my favorite trainings and those ones who created the most impact for me are ones that were experiential. So we'd learn a lesson, we go through some sort of like some notes, like a seminar or whiteboard, and then we go out and do a hike because.

And that's, that's brilliant. And I'm going to cut you off because this is really important. It's like adults learn differently. You know, horses are a precocial species. They're full faculty learners at birth. Like they have their, they know how to run and, and, and they can control their bowels, you know, Whereas humans are intrinsic learners, you know, or, and they, they learn over time developmental learners. And so they don't know how to do those things. So to gamify as an adult is the best way to learn where you do. And there's four stages that I teach here. Information, simulation, demonstration and exploration. And by the time you're out there exploring all of these things with the horse, you look like a horse whisperer. Because we've set it all up and we've created that deep, rich, black dirt, topsoil environment of what you need to learn. How it looks, to learn it, how it feels to learn it, and then exploring and how, how you can, you know, grapple into the new context and get it instantly. You look like a prodigy when you come here. And when people leave here, they're like, I had no idea I was going to learn this much about horses, but oh my God. I know more about horses now than most people that own them. And not only that, but I know more about my husband, my kids, my kids, teacher. I know so many things about so many things as a result of playing with a horse. Playing with a horse.

Love it.

Oh boy, don't we have a good time.

What are some experiences that people have had? So anyone specific? You don't have to get their full name or whatnot, but what's, what's something that has inspired you when you saw this person, this child, this adult, you know, business owner.

Oh gosh, that's such a great, that's such a great question. I've had the good topics around. I had one of my clients, he lost over £100, you know, and kept it off for years because he wanted to have an experience riding Dante. That was his big goal. I said, I told him, I said, there's no way that is as large as you are. It's safe you to, you know. And he said, I said, what? He said, what do I need to Do I said, this is what you needed to do. He did it and it was like his big dream to ride my one horse, Dante, which we kind of jokingly called my 1200 pound Tony Robbins. He's like this big, large, pleasant sort of horse, you know, very extroverted, you know, and ironically he kept the weight off. But he only rode the horse one time. He only rode Dante once. You know, so like between losing that much weight or having a connection with self, you know, people change their management teams in business because they realize they have the wrong person in the wrong role or the right person in the wrong role or the wrong person in the right role, you know, so they learn all of those kinds of things. But I can, I can't tell you like, you know, what kind of story would you like to hear, you know.

Well, you mentioned, you also mentioned before that there are different personality types and they're a bunch of different types of Myers Briggs extra introvert. There's disc any grand there, a ton of them. But with regard to disc, right. The idea of dominant and you have different horses have different personalities. Do people who come to any retreat centers, do they match personalities? If someone's dominant, did they choose a dominant animal or is they choose something they can try.

They're not going to, they're not, they're not going to succeed because the horses will tell you which one, which horse you need. They'll tell you there's a there. That is why I call them a lightning rod to the divine. And that's where spirituality comes into contact with us. Because, you know, leadership is a spiritual game. You know, being a strong leader is about having a strong spirit. And having a strong spirit means having something that is connected, that has a connection to source, that allows you to show up and you know, in your own authenticity. Right?

Yes. Amazing.

Yeah, it's like the, you know, the horses will tell you and you go, oh, I like the, I can't tell you. Oh, I want to work with the white one. Nope, the horse will tell you. You know, they know, they know that they know the answers. And, and I could tell you stories. Oh my gosh, Joseph. I could tell you stories that unless you were here seeing them firsthand, you would have a hard time believing if, believing if you didn't know me well, you know, things where, like where this little one has shown up as a healer or Dante has shown up, you know, like he's my warrior. You know, if you're familiar with the archetypes, I've got four horses, you know, he's the number four, you know, king.

King, warrior, magician, lover. At least some of the archetypes.

Yeah. The sovereign or the king, king or queen, the, the magician and the lover and the, the warrior. And then, you know, you could also tap into the crone, which is Tuesday. Like so I have four and then the book, the four. Like then the fifth agreement, like the Johari window that like the, the all of these different things, you know, play into and, and why we eat certain types of food, like what we believe culturally, all of it taps into the depth of what these, these programs with the horses offer. You know, you can't learn that. You can't, you can't learn that. And, and I don't know from a whiteboard or a seminar. But experiential learning in a playful modality allows you to relax your autonomic nervous system and to receive the things that, you know, your body, you know, somatically.

Can receive absolutely 1,000%. And we know now more about the mind body connection than ever before based on research to dispenza like other people leaders.

Oh you say dispenza. We do the walking meditations with, you know, the Dr. Joe meditations with the horses. I, I need to send some video that way because what happens when. Oof. When humans get incoherence.

Yes.

And the, the, the I've seen things. The horses will lay down, they will come over. And I've had horses line up to someone and like come up and bless them. One horse, then the other horse would come up, then another horse would come up and another. And this person was just getting all of these blessings from the horses where they will come up and put their nose on this person's chest. You know, they, there's story after story.

And you said something just now, you mentioned earlier before also and unpack a little bit. So the idea of coherence and as I understand coherence as, as it relates to heart math. Heartmath.com heart.

Oh yeah.

It's our ability to receive. Some of. So, so many people go to life.

Theas there's, there's re. There's that scientific research studies that they did back in the 90s.

Yes.

About. They did heart math with horses.

Yes. It's profound. Profound. And, and what if we, and basically this is science heart math. The idea that what if you can build coherence and coherence is basically our ability to listen, to receive. I got my first heart math reader back in 2007 and kind of measures pulse and it gives you like A sine wave.

Yeah. It gives you heart rhythms versus your brainwave patterns. Exactly.

Exactly. And the more coherent you become. And coherence could be a matter of connecting with gratitude at the deepest level. We have now the ability to receive new information, to learn new things. And most people go through life being incoherent because they're so traumatized by life and challenges and work.

Living in a high beta brainwave state.

Exactly.

So it's out here we do some breath work. I'm certified in pranic healing. I'm advanced certified in theta healing. I've done a ton of different things like that. And just experience. And when you come out, you're, you're. You leave all your. At the gate. I don't know if I can say that. We leave all your stuff. Hey, you know, you leave all that at the gate because when you get out to the barn, like, let's, let's face it, you're interrupting their day. You know, it's 201. They're ready for their hay.

You know, do you want to walk around and give people a tour with your.

Yeah, yeah, let's do it.

Let's take a tour. Let's take a tour. And hopefully somebody has everybody a tour.

Yeah. Because this is such a beautiful place. Come on, little bug.

I'm taking a tour with Jen Zoe Hall.

So we've got Tuesday here. She's coming with me.

Hey, Tuesday.

Tuesday we're doing a fun experiment of what will my horses eat. Last week it was a pulp from my celery juice. This week it's watermelon. Next week it's asparagus. So love it. Come on, little bug.

Hopefully your WI fi will hold too, as this happens. Great.

Absolutely. But this is my. This is the space. It's beautiful. We just. And you can't see it on the computer. There's no way. But right now there are hundreds of dragonflies in this little glen right here. Just hundreds and hundreds of dragonflies. And then the stables are out back and all the horses are kind of tucked in for the heat of the afternoon. And then Tuesdays here. Look at her little. Her little Mad Max hairdo. But we really have an incredible space here. I've got enough room for eight people comfortably and tons of space in Wellington, Florida. And so we're doing online things to help you get acquainted with what we're up to. And then on site things when. If you want to go a little deeper. But I have an incredible space and I'd love nothing more. The host Anyone that would like to come out and experience forces in a unique way.

Amazing. Amazing. You're doing a retreat coming up soon. I know, yes.

Oh I'm running a special on them right now, so I don't know how long that's going to last. But my. I've just opened up registration for my fall retreat. So it's too hot in July and August. I mean I don't mind it but you guys might. So. So I don't do much in the summer months but Definitely we start September 7th I think is my, my first fall retreat. I'm doing some very topic specific retreats this fall. I've got one around the four agreements as we were talking about earlier and one around my Persona of horse called Bella. And I have a lot of Bellas in my life and excuse me, I have a lot of really great insights on if you are a Bella because sometimes us Bellas, we attract the wrong people into our world and love to please and give and share but sometimes forget to do that for ourselves. So I have some great self love retreats coming up this fall here. That's energy. Beautiful huh? I'm in South Florida.

I love it. X energy. That's, that's, that's.

And I'm Jen. So that's how it works out.

I love it. It's all woven into your identity as a person, as, as a leader and I love how you bring horses into it. It's quite extraordinary. Mind blowing in so many ways and this has been fun. This is a really fun interview. My first time with the horses and a tour. It's. It's just. I'm a disbelief by, by seeing it, all of it. And I challenge people. So there we learn. Books for agreements might be a book you might be learning. Maybe you might be going through one of his personality profiling processes when you were able to intensify adding other elements of like, like fun and play and going through an experiential training with, with, with horses. It internalizes faster. It becomes memorable. And what, what makes. When things are memorable like high quality shared experiences, you walk away with enormous lessons that can be life changing. I've certainly had those for myself doing a lot of those camps over the years. Leadership and one of my buddies Rich does that and not with horses. And I'm going to connect you guys together.

Doing it with horses is. It changes everything.

Changes everything completely.

It does profound and there's. The reasons for that are really deep because our entire human culture is steeped in this. The building of civilizations on the backs of horses, they. We. We evolved as a civilization when we connected with the horse. Yes, yes, but again, in a totally different way.

I look in, I live in New York City. It was only like 100, maybe 20 years ago where automobiles came into play. Part of that was horses and buggies even. I think it was a Paul or deer. Right. Rode a horse. And basically I warned us that the British and did that and crossing thousands of miles and this whole country wouldn't exist for Warren, for.

And the world, honestly, you know, even the evolution of, you know, of any civilization, you know, evolved and elevated in ways that now we are beginning to understand. We're more deeply spiritual than mechanical, you know, than. Than fighting the wars or plowing the fields. But yes, now we can. As we've evolved as a soc and as a culture and a consciousness, we can look at how horses can support us in understanding ourselves so we can be better humans and raise the. The level of consciousness worldwide.

This has been incredible. This has been a lot of fun.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Of course, for our audience out there, rules for success to come. We actually have a whole mind map here that my team's designing, optimizing even more, kind of summarizing all the points that Jen has pulled from as an engineer. I love mind map. So we'll do that.

Oh, we. Oh, that's so much fun. We did. Yeah, we. I've done those a lot. Those are. They're a lot of fun.

Amazing. So check out Jen's work. So Zen Urgen Z N E R G Z.

That's what everybody throws everybody off. But you know what? And you can just, you know what? This. Everybody thinks I'm crazy for doing this, but I don't care. You can reach me on my cell. 407-412-0252. Text call. I don't care. I. I am so passionate about what I'm doing because, you know, not to put any kind of dark shadow at the end of this, but there are tens of thousands of horses being shipped out of this country to slaughter every year, and rescues need our help. So my ultimate mission is to have the people that are listening to this are interested in having a beautiful experience with horses to really understand the value that they bring outside of their physical capabilities. So. And please, you know, I don't care. Reach me out on my cell phone, find me on social media. So my. Right now, my YouTube channel is doing really well. So if you want to subscribe to my YouTube channel, please do. And I'D love to see you here at Zenergen having an incredible life changing experience for yourself because you deserve it.

You have an extraordinary mission. Thank you. Incredibly passionate and I acknowledge you for the journey you've been on like these decades, like showing up for these horses. And if this podcast can save like, you know, like fifty horses or, or a thousand or two thousand or whatnot, that would be fantastic. I know your mission's more about leadership and growth and like loving and honoring these animals and the lessons that come from them.

The number doesn't matter. One is enough.

Incredible. Well, I, I appreciate this conversation. Appreciate you, Jen. For our audience out there. RulesForSuccess.com access this this recording, share with your friends and also tap into the mind map if you choose to. RulesForSuccess.com We've had a profound conversation with Jen, Zoe hall and I will see you on the other side.

Have a great one, guys. Thanks for having me.

That's it for today's episode of rulesforsuccess.com podcast. But the journey to success is far from over. Join us next week for another inspiring conversation with a successful entrepreneur. Until until then, remember to be bold, be courageous, and go after your dreams.