Mastering the Impossible: Leadership, Reinvention & Impact with Hinesh Chauhan

All right. Hi, friends. Joseph Varghese here. Welcome to our podcast rulesforsuccess.com. this is our first interview of the year. I am beyond, beyond grateful. I get to interview a friend of mine and his name is Heesh. Welcome to Rules for Success. Today we have the. Today we have a guest whose journey is a master class in resilience, reinvention and impact. From being a combat engineer to consultant, from navigating high stakes government initiatives to helping divorced dads rebuild, from curing his own autoimmune conditions to launching solutions that empower youth, Chawan is a man who doesn't just solve problems. He masters the impossible. Let's dive in. Henesh, how are you, brother? Let's cook in.

I'm really well, Joseph, thank you. I'm flattered to be here and being the first guest in 2025. So really looking forward to this. Thanks for having me on.

Of course, of course. And Hesh and I connected through a couple masterminds were part of when we last spoke a month ago. Realized that we had a lot in common and I just appreciate his journey as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as an engineer, a former engineer where I used to be, and as somebody who's really motivated to make an impact in the world across different areas as a dad. And also just also some of the. We'll talk about suicide prevention too, amongst teens. We'll talk about that too as well. Excited about this interview and with especially who he is from me is just a leader, somebody who's getting into organizations in a way that really impacts their decisions or choices and much more. Yes. So let's get started. I'm sure our audience wants to connect more. By the way, this interview can be captured@rulesforsuccess.com just go to that domain, you'll find it there and across different podcasting platforms from on Amazon and Spotify and Google. You'll find it across all of that. On top of that, if you go to our website, the great thing is that you'll also be able to access the mind map. A summary of this. As an engineer, one thing I love doing is creating these creative mind maps where you can kind of see things organically across like left brain, right brain and so you can access this there as well also. So let's, let's begin. So in I want to hear your journey. How did you go from being an engineer to being like a combat engineer? I want to hear about that and that whole evolution to where you are now.

Yeah. And I'll try to Keep it brief because there's so many different chapters and I feel lifetime of experiences along that journey. So as I was in high school and I learned that the army, the Canadian army would send me away to teach me how to use explosives, which is probably most teen boys dreams. Pay me, house me and really take me away from my parents. So I signed up and without thinking past a couple of years, I thought I'd do for a couple of years, have a bit of fun. And what I ended up learning and doing was phenomenal. It was a, what I think was the most physically and mentally challenging and bringing those together and the sense of satisfaction you get after that and being pushed to your limits and pushed and pushed and seeing others fall out was amazing. And the role of the combat engineer on the battlefield is to help friendly forces to live move and fight and deny the enemy the same. So we're the guys that are building bridges, clearing landmines and helping the infantry and the armor at the front get through anything that taught me not only the resiliency, but it was a problem solving piece because you had to come up with a solution. And there was no will continue tomorrow. It's, this has to happen now. Whatever you have on your back in your armored vehicle, in your truck is all you've got to make it happen.

So it's a high, it's a high stressful situation, right? And you're, and you have a whole troop of people depending on you, right? Life or death situations, right?

They've got all these other units, friendly forces depending on you and then your own soldier. So I went up the ranks and I was commissioned to be an officer afterwards and, and led a squadron and thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy it. And then I continue to study economics and do a master's in management at night when I was about to deploy again, my wife at the time said I don't know about this, what's this all for? And realized yeah, you know what if we're thinking of having a family, have to make some choices. So dedicated to public service, got into the federal government within, in Canada, the equivalent of the United States treasury and Budget Management Office overseeing high value, high risk military initiatives and did amazing work there and then moved into infrastructure, overseeing surplus assets for the government. So the Canadian government had assets that before Confederation were the owners of custodians and a series of other assets across the country that in an initiative to reduce debt in the mid-80s, remained on the books. No one could get rid of them. I managed to get rid of them in a Couple of years simply through out of box thinking, revisiting policies and authorities with, with cabinet to be able to give me the, the structure and the authorities to be able to negotiate and lead different teams across the country to make it all happen to then leading Canada's infrastructure, stimulus programs and some other jobs, managing life cycle, the lifecycle, management of fixed assets for the Coast Guard and other organizations, lighthouses, Coast Guard bases, labs and the capabilities behind them to then thinking, wait a minute, I don't think our government's doing what's best for Canadians. And it started to eat away at me. We're not making evidence based decisions. So realizing the skill set I have and the gifts I had, went to the private sector for a bit to be able to work with government agencies and realized that the values were the same there because they're working with the government and thought I'm going to go out and help organizations get the results that Canadians need and Americans need. Now that I'm working throughout the US as well to just fight through because there's really no, no one that has the level of expertise in understanding the machinery of government at state, municipal, federal, provincial levels and how industry and other stakeholders can work together, including first nations, to get a win, win, win scenario. So that's, that's what it's all led to with some other offshoots like helping families and divorced dads and suicide prevention and affordable housing.

Yes, correct. Yeah. What has that taught you? So from going from the military to work in the government, dealing with bureaucracy on different levels, consulting with government as well, also getting back into the world of business, business, what has that taught you about that? And it's a unique journey, right? It's a very, very unique journey from a high pressure situation to another high pressure situation, perhaps with bureaucracy, to now, you know, working for these, for these companies, organizations and different executive roles.

Yeah, there's really three things. Everything is human based. If you don't understand the people and understand how to lift them up, how to give them the incentive, how to empower them, you're not going to get the results you want. So that's, that's, the first piece is extraordinary people management and I think as a non commissioned member in the army where you are side by side with your troops and working with them, the different personality types, the different cultures they came from. Psychology has been an interest to me because of how I was raised and, and the difference I saw in the peers around me who were from different cultures and standing out surrounded by mostly white people in, in A suburban Ottawa where I grew up.

And your back, your background's Indian like mine as well. But you're. I think we mentioned last time that you're grew up in a community where you're one of the few Indians perhaps, Is that correct?

That's right.

That's right.

And my parents immigrated here and they had an interesting past where my mom was born in India, grew up in Uganda, to the uk, to Canada, and my dad was born in India to Kenya, sorry, Kenya, born in Kenya to India to the us to Canada. And what I like to joke about is that he went and grabbed my mom on his way hunting trip and brought her back to Canada.

Wow. But he was in the US for a little bit time also before.

Yes, yeah, he came to the US to do his masters and then went to Toronto.

Cool.

So yeah, coming back to that people element is you have to engage the people, understand what motivates them, what they're struggling with, because they are your sources of intelligence in the organization. In terms of what's working, what's not working, what resources, tools, support do you need to be able to help me satisfy my mandate? So that's part one. Part two is the problem, getting down to the problem and I recognizing when problems are symptoms and getting down to the root. And once you start addressing the root, that's when all the magic happens. Whether it's medicine treating symptoms, whether it's municipality and developing infrastructure, whether it's in a company and understanding where profits are or not happening or revenue's not increasing, what is that root problem? And then the third part, which is, I think for me, the most fun. The rules. What are the rules? The policy, the regulations, the legislation that governs what I'm trying to do, what are my restrictions and how can I work in and around them. So this was something the military I'd like to rock the boat to.

I.

Think for my own entertainment. Because there's a culture where you could get away with things because if you're a high performer, I got away with a lot of things, things that were probably inappropriate in today's time as an adult, as a parent, but understanding what I could do not do and push those boundaries. And then in government that was, how do I get these things done? Oh, I can seek exemptions to policy to get around things. I can present options to cabinet to get to get conditional approvals and layout will all come back. Because it's all about risk management. And the government looks at things through a lens of three things. Risk to reputation, risk to Health and safety and financial risk. So if you can frame it this way, identify proactively what may, what can go wrong, what they're considering will go wrong and present solutions and present to them. I will return and update you on X, Y or Z or Z for you guys in terms of how I'm managing these risks. So proactive risk management is just inherent. It's so intuitive to me, which was a big part of my role in the military. It's all about risk management. So as an example, as a, as an engineer commander, you're supporting the infantry or the armored commander. So we go to a country, you go on an exercise, they're leading it. I'm supporting them and looking at the battle map and identifying terrain of where we think the enemy is coming, where we can go forward, where we can stop them, block them and start establishing those risk mitigation strategies for us and to counter the enemy and what they can do. So that mindset has been so established in me that just carries over into every aspect of my life for the good and bad, because I'm also wired to always think about what can go wrong.

Yes, yes.

Which comes up as anxiety.

Yes, yes, I gather that and I gone through some of that myself too, out of the mindset. But you're significantly deeper because you actually did that for the military, into government, really tapping into like how to, what are the rules, regulations and sometimes like that. You know, we, we think overthink things. Right. In situations. Right. That's there. And then kind of getting into the human experience too as well. Also working with companies, individuals and you know, our kids, you know, all of that. It's fascinating, it's fascinating journey, really fascinating journey, all of that. Wow. Well, what are some things you can teach us like beyond that? So when you're working with companies now, so I know, you know, we talk about government, being an entrepreneur, the whole nature, reinvention. We'll get to also some of the personal journey you've gone through before. Also autoimmune issues you've resolved that I'm sure taking some of the minds. But what are some of the things you've learned in bringing this into the consulting world? Like with, with. With small companies.

I think fundamentally a starting point for everybody. So in delivering large infrastructure projects, bridge, bridge replacements, the infrastructure stimulus programs at a national level, or working with small, medium sized companies are dealing at a municipal level or with local businesses. We don't know what we don't know. And in construction there's a style called integrated project delivery. Where you gather all the people that will be involved. At the front end, you don't know what you don't know, and you just identify how this is going to roll out everyone's role and get that feedback and input. So within a community, have community consultations, bring people to the table at the beginning while you're in that definition stage, to get the best solution for everyone so you're not trying to pivot halfway in where you're getting or just becomes costly and complicated to make those changes. So you can make it easier at the front end and to make it more palatable for your listeners or viewers. It's. If you're cooking, you've got kids coming at you, you've got phone calls, you're trying to tackle a few things from your day. What's easier is it doing all the food prep, chopping all your veggies and trimming the meat and getting it ready, or doing it on the fly, hoping that you're not burning stuff as you try to add things in. It's easier when you set everything up at the beginning.

Yes.

That you can deliver, cook, implement more easily.

Yes. Yeah, it's absolutely. Especially if kids are running around to also doing their own thing and maybe getting them involved as well. And your kids are a bit older than mine, so perhaps they can be.

More involved and mine are. Everything I've done, I just want to make life easier for everybody and looking at what the challenges are. I've taught my kids how to cook from a very young age incrementally. Watch me do this. Stir the food. Help me chop this. Okay, you chop, you add in, you stir. Okay. Help me plan the menu, Help me make the grocery list. Okay, you guys are gonna make a meal each. I'm going to supervise. Then it's. They've been making meals on their own for several years now. They're 15 and 17. And so they know the value of every cost per item so they can identify what's good, what's not. Distill the small can versus the big can for what's good value and make meals. So it's getting them engaged because it's more fun. And everyone. If you know how to cook, then you'll never starve and you'll eat well. Because what we put in our bodies is, is really important to understand.

We teach them, you teach them how to be resourceful, like to teach them how to fish. Teach them how to be resourceful, that whole metaphor. And so, so they can do this on their own, especially as they're approaching adulthood which is pretty soon right in like cliche.

But they just, they, it's accelerated the age they're at. You know, boyfriends, girlfriends, sports, jobs there. It's hard. No one's ever around at the same time.

Yes.

I want to bring this to other parents as well because as a single parent and how I made it all work was me dissecting what works, what doesn't. How can I fine tune this, refine it to be more efficient and effective. And so I've, I've created a cookbook. It should be coming out in the fall and it's based on a simple way of two week meal plan because you'll have your kids some or all of that time so you don't eat sloppily like I did for a period of time where I, I remember a week of not in a good mental health state. Too much whiskey and saltines and cheese whiz.

Okay for me it was for me, for me in college it was like ramen noodles and like McDonald's hamburgers. But that's, that's, that's, that's might be an upgrade maybe.

And so the cookbook is based on four flavors, really simple, really healthy, gluten free, minimal dairy. And it shows you how to engage your kids at every age and how to create a simple meal plan that's nutritious and delicious. And then alternating pages teaches parents how to do no cost or low cost activities without screens. So just movement, get outside. And it's really not hard to just set up a kappa bowl and a mixing bowl and get small marshmallows, give it a point system, stand in your hallway and throw marshmallows at it. As an example of curious.

How do you teach people? How do you teach your kids and organizations people like how to buy into this. Like for me, I lead accountability groups. You know that success circles. 20 years ago we launched this and it's holding entrepreneurs to their game, their why each day putting in front of them in a way that inspires them. We've gamified it. We made life be play like you've got a playbook for the things you're doing. I'm curious, what's your methodology? Whether it's going into a medium sized business to work with your kids to get people to buy into the framework you're about to present, especially knowing in your mind that it works. You've done this before in the past in the military and other organizations and your kids. How do you get people to buy in to Be accountable to take ownership, you know, and like we have our methodology, like I mentioned, play games, all of that. But I'm curious about yours really.

Thank you. I don't think I've ever been asked that. So my brain's spinning in terms of breaking that down. I've got instructional ways for my kids and I've done a lot of instruction in the military. I used to teach martial arts as a tutor and things I'm probably missing and then professionally. So this one on the kids side, it's providing the context and the intent of what they'll get out of it and how it will benefit them. And I use something I learned from the military edi, explain it, demonstrate it and get them to imitate it and then provide, provide feedback and after, after, after action review for every activity, which is what I've done with my kids. But what, well what didn't. Why did you and your brother fight? You didn't communicate this or that. And then professionally it's different, it's broader. So the broad context, the intent of what we're trying to accomplish, make sure you get that validation from everybody. And talking about the what's been done, what's working and what's not working, getting input and feedback at that point in terms of agreeing if there's anything else that we can take for lessons learned to implement in what we're doing going forward and then identifying options on what needs to be done based on the evidence, based on what hasn't been working and then starting to get input. This is important input from them because when you start micromanaging or, or putting that solution out to others, you're not getting that buy in. So it's really identifying where each team, what group, what business line can do what to move that mission forward. But it's the intent of these are the outcomes we want. This is the measure of success. Do we all agree on that? And so aligning them each step of.

The way 1000%, getting a buy in, have them repeat, maybe even share also, you know, like, like, like what they've learned out of that, maybe repeating it and after they've applied it. Well, how did that work for you? Just so things are clearer and they can kind of own up to it and maybe as repeat that in the future. That lesson now is even further internalized too as well because they've taught, they've taught it now.

Yes, exactly. And then of course everything's in the follow up execution, follow up and measuring.

That's amazing. It's very simple. Like I love that whole journey. You brought your kids too, and maybe have them see this play. But I concur the value of that. I've learned how to be very adaptable with my kids. I could probably bring more structure into like you have as an engineer, like. Right. And that would be of use. Right. I find. So that's cool. That's really cool. Especially as you've gotten older and more responsible and where they're at now.

So, yeah, getting again kids or your professional teams or your clients, it's getting feedback in terms of what's working, what's not working. So something I. I had with my kids when they're younger was asking three questions at bedtime. What was the best part of your day? What's something you did today that you're proud of? And what's something that you're grateful for? And so we do one on one or we do it collectively. But then as they became teens and I realized I was butting heads with my son, it shook me up a bit because I didn't want to push them away. So a fourth question now is, what's something I can do differently as a parent? So I get a continual improvement loop back.

Amazing. I love that. I'm gonna start implementing with my kids as well also.

That's great.

That's powerful. And also closes the day too. So when they go to bed, go to sleep, they're not. Their mind's not thinking open loops like, you know, what did I do wrong? We teach our members in successor that too. Also that the journal or day before, they go to bed, maybe hours before, so they can kind of close the day out. The day itself is a game. So the game's over. So that now their dreams are now focused on maybe creative thinking or fueling what's next. So I love that you're gifting out your children too, as well also. And also holding yourself accountable too, because, you know, as a parent, like, it's. It's. It's not just you guys. It's also, how can I be better as a dad too as well. Absolutely brilliant.

That's it. And it's also part of the things I try to implement for myself to improve my mental health over the years with the different challenges I've had. So even now, I've got a sticky next to my toothbrush at night that says what went well today and why and where. I'll say it out to myself to just remind myself. And then next to my nightstand is my WINS journal where I just write three bullets what went well. So that exactly what you said.

Let's talk about, let's talk about that. So you've also re engineered yourself over the years, right?

Continually. Continually.

What are some things you do on a daily basis? You mentioned got some of the notes just around that bull, your bullet journal reflecting your wins. What are some things you do each morning at nighttime before you to bed to keep yourself engaged and as you're continuing to re engineer yourself.

Yeah. And and this comes from severe mental health challenges where in my mid, early and mid 20s was the first time I started pur therapy. It started with cognitive behavioral therapy which is great for people like you and I who are methodical in our thinking. However, it causes you to ruminate because you're constantly reviewing past circumstances. That was a takeaway. And then as I had autoimmune issues build up because of psychological challenges. I was off work for 14 months about five, five years ago and had to. The way I came back was, was an interesting process. As I reflected as I was healing I would, if I follow what the doctors wanted I'd be on some pretty harsh pharmaceuticals and biologics for the rest of my life. And I'm not on anything. And and it was the discovery words. There are six things that were essential to stack to create that balance of my life. One or the I think the first three are to most people givens good sleep, good nutrition, good movement or exercise. Next one was mindfulness or spirituality. And then there was time in nature. Time in nature is so healing. And then when I what got me over the top was what feeds your soul. It's creation we're meant to create. Whether it's in our professional space, whether it's vacuuming the carpet and drawing nice lines in it as I like to do cooking, playing music, gardening or even I, I cherish just reading because when it's the methodical repetitive behaviors which is meditative in ways and then looking back to see my garden clear. And so that brought me over the top to be able to be functioning again and go back to work. And so on a daily basis I try to read in the morning meditate and journal gratitude journaling. And I say try because I probably hit about four days a week and then throughout the day take time to just recognize when my autonomic nervous system is, is, is not where it should be and to bring myself into that particular sympathetic state to just yes, breath breath at work too to bring myself back and in my, my house is that I've got a say a little ab Roller here. I've got a pull up bar in my bedroom. I go out and jump rope in the morning sun a couple times probably, but at least earlier in the morning. But it's minus 30 Celsius this morning. Snapped. Wow.

Well, okay, I got it.

And then push ups and body weight squats. So I just break that up throughout the day too. Manage that cortisol.

Yes.

And it's, it's. Someone told me this had stuck with me. Do a little, a lot.

Yes.

And so that's, that's my principle.

It's brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Do a little, a lot, get out there, just. And even if you don't hit all of those things, if you hit some of those things even like the four days of journaling that it still adds up, it still compounds over time. Little things, those little investments add up quite a bit over time in terms of our mental health and how we show up. And as we set the context to our day, we're able to effectively set the context to our children for the organizations we consulted and so forth.

Yes. And that's really key is everything you just said was about really celebrating what you're doing and what's getting done as opposed to looking at what's not getting done and what you didn't do. So perception, perspective is so important and shifting it so that it's towards the positive. And the same thing is for kids. And as a parent who grew up in a world of a lot of my think my need for high standards is, comes from my parents. That's, that was the expectation.

Well, having Indian parents will likely do that more for anybody out there. I can, I can. And we're, we're, we're, we're doing our best to be balanced with that. My wife has high standards too. Just like I, I, I, I, I, I joke around a lot along the house. I studied improv for years when I left engineering and that, that's helped me bring a lot of humor and fun and song into our household to combat my wife's, her high stamp, she's a top physician and what she does, so it's like balancing it out and being adaptable. I've learned one of my NLP coach years ago, 20 years ago, taught me in a relationship the most adaptable person creates the most progress. So I've had to embrace that. However challenging that can be at times.

Yes, that's a really good takeaway. At most adaptable person creates progress.

That's basically. And I'm, I'm adaptable. Like love languages. I Drive my wife to work. And, and it's just being adaptable and bringing fun and play into it, which you mentioned before too. How do we make these things fun? Especially when we're cooking together as a family. How do we laugh about it? So it's, it's not like a. It's. It's not as serious.

Yes.

Where it's all play. So really well said, my friend.

Yeah, I really like that. Excuse me. Really like that. And a good reminder, I just scribbled that down.

So we're all learning from each other. So this is, this is great. You're teaching me tremendous things as well also. Plus you, you re engineered yourself. You basically cured yourself of an autoimmune issue. We talked about mental health things. Things I've dealt with the top of the vagus nerve last time. It's a whole. The conversation on that parasympathetic nervous system, it never ends. Especially I found as we get older, we, we ask people, we atrophy. So how do we prevent atrophy? What can atrophy? All it means is muscles get weak or how do we prevent that? Even our minds, our brains, muscle too, getting stronger. And it takes work. It really takes work. And if we teach kids this at a young age, like as you've been doing with your son, daughter, you're giving them the skills to essentially exponentially get better, even beyond their finances in terms of how they show up and how they are able to cook for themselves and do the basic things. Our kids went to a Montessori school for a short period of time. And like, there's an element of that that's there where mindfulness, you know, you take a toy, you play with it, and then you put it away. Right. And then you speak like, how was the experience about tapping into that? When this is like a muscle early on that you've done with your kids, it's becomes like second nature to them and.

Absolutely. And. And it builds their confidence, their certainty, and things that become innate to them. Where they've done the reps, then they have to worry less about that and can focus on the next phase, the next thing, and what they need to do or what they want to do to get to that next goal.

I love the way you framed that, doing the reps as you did, I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands of times when you were in the military, like doing the reps. And that's encoded in you. So I'm sure you're in the military. Am I correct? You're in the military. After high school. So basically going from being a teenager to being an adult to being a leader in the roles you had in military, then going into government. So that's all wired and coded from doing all those reps, now you're bringing up the companies, organizations with the consulting worker do. Is that accurate?

It is. Absolutely it is. So I was in competitive martial arts and it was about the reps, where it's instinctive and even for me, sometimes my kids will creep up or try to do something to me and it's instinctive. And the military is all about that as well. If under pressure, you need to be able to react and do the things you're expected to do. And then coming into what I saw in especially the government is layering on of bureaucracies, things become over complicated because it's gone. Got to be formalized in some way or they need to bring in one of the big four, pay a ridiculous amount of money to do something that's really simple. And so as I said to me, everything is risk management and change management. So you're about to cross the street. Taking a step is the change and the risk is looking left and right before you cross. How do you simplify that? So what I bring to organizations is let's keep this simple. And the simplicity comes from improved communication and call it leadership. But leadership is top down, down, up, left, right. Leadership is everywhere. Yes, doesn't matter where your role is, but just empowering people that we want your feedback, we want to understand what's making your day harder or easier and communicating that with different parties. So you break down the silos, you're able to communicate that intelligence across the board. And. And this jumped out to me. So I. One of my roles in the military was the title was lessons learned Officer for domestic operations. But I was doing change management for domestic operations. And as I read through because I'm infinitely curious, I want to see how this is done in other militaries over the years. The one something that stuck with me was the most effective way for change management came from the messes in the military where you had segregation between the ranks, which was actually beneficial because they could be open and honest with each other and talk about what was working, what they didn't like. And that's where the greatest exchange of intelligence occurred, to create the fastest change. So it's informal communication and empowering that and then formalize it later. But just keep that conversation going.

And that's your book. Bring your, bring your problem. Mastering the impossible. I know it's on your website and I haven't read through parts of it. What's one impossible problem that you crack wide open in your consulting career? What's maybe one case study, something that you've solved, help solve, given your unique background and what you brought forward.

I'd say it is getting a client to get a government contract in a non competitive manner because they had a solution that wasn't present or available with domestic, with the domestic market. And so you've got a foreign competitor, non combat competitive process and being able to engage the stakeholders to get that traction and get them the work. So it was really identifying what they had that was different and then understanding the rules of resistance and barriers to get them in and being able to mitigate that and provide them with the language to provide to work with politicians and the communities to get that out.

You're a bit of a simplifier as well as I understand it. And so I know you specialize on specialize in operational and effectiveness. What's a common mistake companies make that create unnecessary complexity?

Oh wow. That's a, that's a really good question.

Because I know organizations over comp, especially with bureaucracy and of course there's more bureaucracy when you're working with the government directly. But now with organizations, maybe people who are organizations that are also working with the government, what are some things that maybe they're overthinking or that maybe take too long. Whereas in this new world we live in with AI and much more things can be optimized and innovation is growing. What are some things they can do, what are some things they think they can do?

Just thinking that through really, I think the best thing is to get a face to face call or meeting and share what you're trying to do. In terms of satisfying the red tape, working through the bureaucracy, being able to compete in a process, you don't have to go through all those steps and then have that conversation, always have that conversation up front and bring other players. Because the level of education that occurs between the different parties is actually mind blowing. And everybody all of a sudden is brought onto the same playing field and from there everyone can win as opposed to looking at it as a win lose or win win between two parties. There's never just two parties, there's multiple stakeholders. And getting that up front dialogue going changes everything.

Every yes thousand, a thousand percent. In our community also we talk about when people connect together, accountability. Set the context early, right? And the context will set you free. But setting that, establish that early on the first meeting, two Meetings establishing who the players are, what the culture is, what the code is, how you're going to work together. That's what you just said essentially, as.

I hear is really well synthesized. And one of my favorite sayings from Peter Drucker is culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Yes.

And if you don't understand the culture, you don't really know what you're up against. So yes, well said.

I know we're up against time soon. We're almost the hour. What's the DDAT initiative? I know this is something that's very important to you as far as your legacy, the future and I align with this. But please share with our audience what this is about.

Yes, thank you. The DAT app is an initiative to empower youth and prevent youth suicide. I lost my brother to suicide a few years ago and I've lost friends, other brothers in arms to suicide. And what I've realized again getting down to that root issue, is that if we can give people at an earlier age the tools, the resources and to just deal with their challenges is one piece. But then empowering them with the tools to understand where they want to go and how to get there, along with connections to the mental health resources and everything they need to overcome their challenges will create a better healthier society society for our kids, my kids, your kids. For them to have healthier relationships with partners, with colleagues, with employees. It it all starts at an earlier age. So how can we create the greatest socio economic benefits is is looking at the youth risk for everything. So we've got this has grown and is growing so big and it's all because of the brilliant leadership of this wonderful professional out of North Carolina named Shonda Spates who I met and said I need to be part of this. So we've collaborated with a few others to bring this forward with the Dallas Austin foundation, the Florida Panthers. We'll look talking with other partners in terms of collaboration and sponsorship and looking at a soft launch within the next couple of months. But it's physically starts in Charlotte, North Carolina to then go across the country and then internationally.

Incredible, incredible mission and I'm sorry about lost your brother and sounds like that catalyzed things for you to really impact people. I also hear that you're teaching children your kids, other residents initiative. It is a framework right? And what I understand with DDAT Discover, define, affirm, achieve thrive. It's an extraordinary framework. The DDAT dash app we'll put the link of the website onto our podcast site rulesforsuccess.com Heinous how can people connect with you and else to access your book that you wrote recently?

Yes, the the book is was on Amazon will be on my my website. But they can connect through me by going to evoluteconsult.com and they can fill out the form to set up time with me or they can find me on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is probably the best place to go. So really happy to connect with anybody with whom this resonates and is interested in supporting anything I'm doing to be able to improve those socioeconomic outcomes for communities. So it's not just suicide prevention. It's also affordable housing, which is a whole separate conversation.

Yes. We we'll say for another episode. Well, this has been really extraordinary. So our audience evoluteconsult.com access hesh his work, his book and much more. I I'm really in all this conversation because you just covered so much here, right? From family dynamics to reengaging yourself to organizations to the government. We covered a lot. So much you can cover in like 40 minutes. 40, 40, 50 minutes. But this has been exceptional and thank.

You, thank you, Joseph, just for facilitating this conversation and to be able to share all these things and hopefully there's some value that your, your listeners get because I just want to simplify things for everybody like let's just get results and do the things we want and have good lives. That's. That's it.

Exactly. Exactly. We can bring the fire together and across the communities I lead. It's not difficult. Let's make the day better, make each other better. Right. And we tap into a way of looking in life each day. A lot of it is context which finish talked about before also establishing context. Extraordinary things can come out of it, especially for our kids, future generations, especially in a world that's getting more complic perhaps complicated with AI and a lot of other advancements and things. Henness, I know you're involved with two which in technology and organizations and all the great things you do out there. It's been a privilege connecting with you this way for our audience. Once again. RulesForSuccess.com access this entire interview, the mind map summary and also we'll add a couple links for different replays transcript much more on our website rulesforsuccess.com it's been a pleasure and let's go out there and rock it.