Ep. 175 - Stem Cell Therapy for Menopause? Let's talk about it with Dr Joy Kong

Foreign I'm Dr. Fiona Lovely and this is the not yout Mother's Menopause Podcast. I'm taking the taboos of menopause and perimenopause and bringing light to the dark. No bullshit, no shame. It's time for us to gain a new paradigm in female health. Out with the old and in with the new, and I'm bringing fresh perspectives from someone in the arena. I've been practicing women's health for nearly 20 years and I'm spill the T and what it means to live at midlife knowing that the best is yet to come. I'm sharing my Gen X approach to living through this transition. Sassy, a bit sweary, and always honest. Tactical tips and instantly usable information is my aim. I hope to make you laugh and that you learn something new that helps you embrace the change. Together we bring power to the Perry Onward to the podcast. You're listening to the not yout Mother's menopause podcast. I'm Dr. Fiona Lovely. Thank you for joining me today. Today we're going to have the discussion about stem cells and where they fit in the whole landscape of the anti aging spectrum, if you will. Today I welcome Dr. Joy Kong, STEM cell expert, triple Board certified anti aging physician and specialist. Renowned for her expertise in stem cell therapy and commitment to educating both physicians and the public. With a strong presence in the industry, she has established herself as a trusted voice through her extensive lecturing at national and international conferences as well as her publications in scientific journals. As a dedicated educator and pioneer in the field of regenerative medicine, Dr. Kong has founded the American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy and train numerous physicians from around the world. Her innovative approach has also led to the creation of Chara Health USA and Chara Biologics, premier companies providing cutting edge products and services to patients across the United States. With numerous accolades including Stem Cell Doctor of the Year and Stem Cell Doctor of the decade, Dr. Kong continues to be a respected figure in the medical community dedicated to advancing the field of regenerative medicine and improving patient outcomes through her emphasis on scientific data, passion, authenticity and integrity. Her inspiring memoir, Tiger of Beijing, which she recounts her remarkable and memorable journey as an immigrant from China at the age of 20, starting with her visa rejection in 1991 and was named 2020 Book of the Year by IAOTP. Now, Dr. Joy Kong and I talked about a variety of subjects related to how we regenerate cells, what stem cells are, what they come, where they come from. By the way, be prepared to have your Mind changed on that because it turns out stem cells can come from a lot of places. Be open to hearing what she has to say about how her own health changed with regular infusions of stem cells, but also stories of her patients, which I found to be some of the most inspiring parts of this conversation. She and I talk about how the science has come so far in the advancements of the aging process. It used to be the kind of thing I refer to it with her as the Jetsons science. The truth is the this is our reality now. How cool is that? So what do you use stem cell therapy for? I certainly am familiar with it in the realm of sports medicine, but to hear her talk about it for other things I think was part of the most important part of this conversation. There's just lots to be learned. So she tells us how they're delivered, how they're collected, how they work, where they come from. One of my favorite moments was when Dr. Kong tells the story of when she was working as a psychiatrist and one of her mentors working with her at the time used stem cell therapy for an autistic boy. And what happens to that child when having the infusion of stem cells. Remarkable. Listen in for that story for sure, because I'm telling you, this was one of those conversations, guys, where it's going to challenge a lot of the thinking you have about things, and it's going to make you realize that if we we're really on a beautiful learning edge of how to age well and it's just not all that weird. I ask about stem cell applications for perimenopause and menopause, and I asked the mechanisms of how stem cells reverse aging. Again, such a complex subject, but somehow Dr. Kong made it really interesting. And I want you to pay attention to how she talks about stem cells as a potential therapy for cancer. So interesting. We talk about growth factors. We talk about mesenchymal stem cells, in case you want to know what it's called when the stem cell potentiation is measured. It's the meson chymal stem cells, or the MSCs are the ones you want. So can you grow them in the lab? Do they have to come from human source, et cetera? This is the conversation we had, really a very fascinating discussion. I hope you find it so as well. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Dr. Joy Con Foreign. Are you navigating the changes of menopause? You're not alone in experiencing shifts like weight gain, sleeplessness, and body changes as sex hormones, such as estrogen change, they can affect appetite and how your body uses energy. It is not surprising then that in addition to other changes, many women notice increased appetite and and reduced energy expenditure. Studies have shown women typically gained around 3.3 pounds a year during the perimenopause transition, potentially reaching an average gain of 22 pounds by the time we reach menopause. This is distressing. This includes increases in fat mass, especially around the abdomen, reduction in muscle mass called sarcopenia, exactly the things which contribute to frailty as we age. To help manage this, it has been estimated that women need to reduce their caloric intake by around 200 calories a day during the transition. But stress, feeling hungry or battling cravings can make that challenging. I would like to introduce Kalocurb, a plant based all natural supplement. Callocurb is a patented world first GLP1 activating supplement. It contains Amerisate, a natural extract from a specific variety of New Zealand bitter hops. Taken an hour before meals, Amerisate is released into the small intestine from a patented capsule. It works by stimulating bitter taste receptors in your gut to activate your body's own gut hormones like GLP1, CCK and PYY3, the hormones that help you feel fuller, longer and slow down Gastric emptying. Clinically proven Calocurb has been shown in studies with women undergoing fasting to reduce overall hunger by 30% and overall food cravings by 40%. It has been shown to help reduce calorie intake by 18% on average. And in studies Calocurb is designed with no artificial ingredients, sugars, calories, stimulants or caffeine. Alongside physical activity, strength training and protein forward nutrition, callocurb can help you work towards your goals. Empower yourself during menopause ladies. Let Callocurb help you stay lean and energized through midlife. Visit Calocurb.com and use the code lovely10 for 10% off your first order. This is the not yout Mother's menopause podcast. I'm Dr. Fiona Lovely and Dr. Kong. I'm so excited to have you on the show which I was just saying to you and thank you for the sweet compliment, I appreciate that very much. I think it's a voice that was born for radio. I guess is is what I've heard. So thank you, thank you. Now you are coming on the show as our first regenerative medicine and anti aging specialist and expert, MD, triple board certified. I'm so excited to talk to you about your topic today, which is regenerative medicine and stem cells in particular.

Yes.

So exciting. Which is so cool. So, you know, I look at the way medicine has really evolved in the last, oh, I don't know, even 10 years, let's say. And it seems to me that anti aging medicine, the science is real and ready for us. It's not something out there that maybe one day we'll see happen. It's ready. It's happening.

Yes.

Is that true?

It's actually true. It's a little scary, but it's true.

Oh, no, it's. Here's the thing I say on the show to my listeners all the time, is we don't want to see aging in ourselves. The way we walk watched it in our elders, and I think we're at a beautiful time, a beautiful conjunction of generation X and the elder millennials are saying, we're not going down like that science is ready to help us with it. So tell us a little bit about how you got to be the person talking about regenerative and anti aging medicine, please.

The answer is I don't even know. Okay. Yes. I don't know how I got here. I just. The moment I heard about what stem cells could do and actually seeing the evidence of it from a real case, that's when I thought, okay, all right. So I was taught all this stuff in medicine, and then in this particular case was autism. I thought I knew how to handle autism. Of course, it was abysmal because what psychiatry was doing. So I was a psychiatrist in my past life, and what we could do was very limited. And then this one doctor I met who treated this kid with autism using umbilical cord derived stem cells with one infusion, he was making changes. Of course, the family never told the teacher, you know, they had no idea what's going on. The teacher started to notice all these differences. Like there are like 40 things listed. Better eye contact, better expression, you know, better no longer procrastinating. And, and you. But, you know, as far bowel control, et cetera, all these things. And I just couldn't believe this guy did this doctor did a simple IV infusion and he had no knowledge, really didn't know autism the way I knew. Right. I was trained on all these conditions. Autism was kind of the realm of psychiatry. So that's what really prompted me to dig. Because if some miraculous thing is happening with what you put some cells in the body and this happened. Why?

How?

What's going on? So the curiosity, and that's what I want to bring this to really people's attention, the curiosity. What about the miracle of life? Have you. It was just a stem cells, and maybe you have to come. Such a buzzword, but what about what it can do? Doesn't that inspire you? Think about it. Yeah, you've done. Oh, you. You've done all this training, you have all these medications, and you can't make a dent on this patient's condition, let's say Parkinson's or whatever, you know, some autoimmune conditions. And there goes somebody that was not even trained in your specialty. Give this infusion of these cells, and your patient just got way better. Like something you could never do. You can't even imagine because you tell the patient, well, there's really. This is all I have. This is really. This is as much as I can do for you. Yes. There's slow progression and decline, and then all of a sudden, somebody put something in your veins and the person's getting better. You better be curious. Otherwise, you're betraying your job as a healer of why you went into medicine. And that's the part that's a little hard to see. It's sad because doctors, so many doctors have strayed away from their true passion. This love of knowledge, this. This curiosity of wanting and really doing everything they can to help. So if you're rejecting stem cells, when stem cells have made such a difference for so many people, then you really have to question, why are you in medicine? So anyhow. But the moment I found out about this, that's when I just started reading and reading, and there was no textbooks because this was nine years ago. So the only way you can learn is by reading published articles. Because the articles will have an introduction. The introduction section will give you the background of everything, right? So you. That's like a. Like a little piece of textbook, you know, very, very small textbook. And you learn from that. And then you read another article, another article. So I just. I was piecing everything to really have a full understanding of what stem cells are, how are they making these changes and what are the right ways to approach the therapy, and what types of cells there are and what kind of evidence have we seen? So that's. I think I just. And I couldn't stop talking about it. I just. The moment someone get me, like, you touch stem cell. Oh, there it goes. It's so inspiring. It's so cool, right? This is like tapping into life.

Okay, we gotta unpack that. So I. I love this conversation about curiosity because it's true, we lose that Sense. As we get older, for whatever reason, I think we may very well feel boundaried by our professions or our legacy or, or our community or whatever. But you're so right when you say if you stay curious about things and I always say when I get the youngsters that come into the office and say Dr. Lovely, I don't know what I want to do with my life. I say don't worry about that. I know you get pressure from all kinds of place. Just follow your curio, let it turn your head just a little bit and then go that way and see what comes up. You never, you never know. You absolutely never know. I love what you said about this autism. The child experiencing autism getting the stem cell injection or the IV infusion. Wow. I. That would have blown my socks off too. I totally get why you went, I got to go over there.

Yeah. What's going on with these cells?

What, how so, what, what, what did you figure out when you started to look? What happened? What changed in that particular case?

Well, I wanted to understand what kind of cells these are and just what can they do for the body. So what I found out is that yes, we're all born with lots of stem cells because we, we came from a single stem cell. So we have really. We were first like this, this cluster of cells, right? We were. And they were all very primordial stem cells. And, and then when we form a full human, right, when the baby is ready and is born, this little human is still having all these stem cells in the body ready to repair and regenerate, right? Is this little human probably is going to damage himself herself, you know, run into something, you know, eat something terrible. Yeah, it's going to cells are ready to repair this, this little human being. However, as you grow older, as you do more damage to yourself, you know, eat bad food, drink alcohol, cigarette smoke, environmental toxins and you know, UV damages, etc, you start to lose these cells. You not only lose them in number because they die off. You also lose potency. They start to not be as effective and as ready to work. So when we re even just when we reach our teenage years, we've gone down to 110 of the amount of stem cells we had when we were born. So yeah, if you do an operation on newborn, you may still see a scar, but definitely the earlier you are, the smaller the scar is going to be, right? Because your body just ready, ready to fix right up and make new tissue. But the old you are, the slower the repair is. And that's why age is the biggest predictive factor of chronic illnesses because you just can't fix it anymore. So now we can bring some cells back in here, got the right signals to tell your body how to fix it. So that's why this is one of the powers from stem cells, because they have the untainted messages. If you use your own stem cells, it will still be helpful, but your own stem cells also have been damaged as you age. When you make a new human, woman and man, you know, having a baby, there's a biological reset. A lot of the damages and everything is the spark of light. There's a reset, right? There's a miracle. So what we're using in our practice and also have taught hundreds of doctors is using this very young source of stem cells. If you can find untainted cell sources in our human body, you know, that's great. Unfortunately, we haven't done the reset. You know, we just, just look at the sperm and egg, right? Very, very essential. These primordial cells. When these two come together, they make a new human. But even the sperm and egg start to age and they start to be defective. So they're not, we're not that protected. You know, the, the environmental damage will get you no matter what kind of cells you are, so you're going to start to lose potency. And when you put back in the body these very young, these reset sources, then you have clear messages and correct messages. And then your body can just repair yourself in a way that you much older or sicker body cannot anymore.

Okay, well, how do we get them? Where do the stem cells come from?

It comes from, well, anywhere in our body we have stem cells so you can harvest from your own body. But the one I use, the reason I choose this one is not just because, you know, that somehow I, because that's the first thing I encountered is because I went through careful analysis of different sources. So if you compare umbilical cord derived stem cells versus the two other most popular sources, bone marrow derived stem cells and adipose derived stem cells, and both will carry, the cells will be of your own age. So when there's direct comparison between these different sources, the umbilical core stem cells are always coming on top. They have longer lifespan, they have longer telomeres, they have more generations left. They can, you know, divide a lot more number of times. They have wider differentiation potentials. The growth factors they secrete are more potent and, and wider range. So there's more types of growth factors. Yeah, they're just the neuroprotective effects Etc, you know, so everything that you're looking at, the younger cells is superior. So that will be the type that I use, and that comes from the umbilical cord. Umbilical cord is just such a. Just like what a gift because it comes from this primordial. Right. The. The younger source. So when the embryos is forming, there's the placenta, there's the cord. The cord, of course, is connecting to little. Little fetus. And when the cord was forming, there's all these cells that get trapped in the cord and they stay there. We don't know exactly what their functions are yet because you certainly don't need the cells. And if you just want to protect the blood vessels, right, then why not just make a tube that's just full of collagen and, you know, full of some matrix. Why have cells there? But no, it's rich in stem cells, in this type of stem cells called mesenchymal stem cells. So why are they there? You know, if indeed umbilical cord's mission in life is to cushion and protect. Right? That's what the FDA keeps talking about, cushion, protect. So you must give back the cells for the same purpose they must cushion and protect. And I was like, how do you know what the cells are there for? You think we need those cells to cushion and protect? You really think so? Okay, all right. A little naive, right? So that's a whole other subject. So, yes, someone somewhere thinks they know it all, right? They think they know what everything is there for. So. So just please have some humility. Just realize that there's so much we don't know. But we can harness some of these powers that's given to us, that's part of us. So these cells were trapped very early on in the embryonic formation period. So they carry a lot of the primitive characteristics that only exist in the much earlier stem cells that's lost in the stem cells that's in the baby. So the baby stem cells are not as potent as the umbilical cord stem cells. So you can't just.

That's interesting.

Yes. So they're younger than the baby. And then what we do is a mother, by the way, we screen mothers very heavily. We screen them for every. Everything, anything that. That can have anything to do with the health of the baby. And the. And the local cord is screened for. So their own health history, family history, their prenatal history, their travel history, work history, toxic exposure, everything that. All that's screened for, sexual history. And we also do not accept women. So the Laboratory I work with, we do not accept women that have been vaccinated by the COVID vaccine. So I don't care what your position is. If you come to me, there's too much unknown. I am not going to jeopardize my patients because we still have a lot of unanswered questions. So that is a pet peeve of mine. I'm never going to compromise on that point. So when the mother that fits all the criteria, criteria under the age of 30, when they're about to give birth, they're asked, you know, first of all, we only accept elective C section births because we want to be able to obtain the tissue in a sterile field. We don't want to introduce, you know, everything that's in the vaginal canal. And, and you, you, if you have child or have seen a. Childbirth is not. It's not a sterile.

It's not sterile. No. It is very organic, very.

Put it that way. So. So we only choose women who are. Who wanted to just do elective C section. So then it's a surgical field. Everything will be obtained, you know, sterily, so then that once the baby's born, the cord is cut and the umbilical cord and placenta will be put in a normal saline bag and then shipped to a tissue bank. And that's where they process it and carefully separate out the cells and then cryopreserve them. You just lower the temperature by one degree per minute, you know, just slowly so you don't, you don't drastically lower the temperature, then you kill the cells. Right, that's. It's over. But if you just do it very gently and they use a little bit of cryopreservative, which. The purpose of it is to prevent the crystals from forming to puncture the cell wall. So they don't want water, you know, during temperature changes to, to harm the cells that once they're frozen, they're just frozen in animation, really, just slowly. So it's like a person talking slower. It's a little slower, right? Slowing down to the point where, you know, there's just frozen in animation until the doctor's ready to use it. You can thaw it out and the cells will come back to life. It's processed correctly. By the time you saw them out, they should be alive. Of course, that there's a technique, you know, in there.

Oh, of course, of course. So just to be crystal clear, everybody listening, you're saying the mothers are opting to donate their umbilical cord.

Oh, yeah. So the Mothers, etc. Yeah. Are screened. If they don't want to save the cord for themselves, for their own baby, then they're. They can donate. And most of the mothers actually decide to donate.

Interesting. Okay, that's great because I know that's part of the sort of mythology around, around stem cell therapy is, is let's, let's just deal with those issues that are out there. I mean, these, these ethically manufactured isn't the right word, but ethically collected cells by consent, so perfect. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I think that's. Yeah.

And until this day, probably is less. Now I'm hoping I'm. I've been dispelling the myths enough, but I used to hear, oh, you're, you're killing babies. You know, these are from aborted fetuses and blah, blah, blah. And no, nobody's not right in this country. I've never met a single. I've never heard of any. It's illegal, okay? Get it out of your mind. In this country, it, it doesn't happen. Yes, okay, that happens. Report the person.

Yes, yes, yes. And of course you're referring to the United States for sure. We've got listeners around the world, Dr. Kong.

So that's true. Yeah, there are, there are, you know, less, you know, some countries that can provide that. So that's a whole other. Yeah.

Okay. So we're talking about your practice. The way you have done the stem cells is using the correct collection methodologies, ethically consent informed, etc, and so other places on the planet, less so. So if you're listening from outside of the United States, make sure you're looking into this subject right here. But for what Dr. Kong and I are discussing today, this is very true. So tell us. We've got these frozen stem cells and they've been done. They've been frozen in such a way that they can be reconstituted and used to be helpful. You've talked about autism. Let's talk about some other things. What are stem cells useful for, please?

So first of all, I can't make any claims. And you know that very well.

Yes.

So FDA has only approved a couple conditions because, you know, use for. That's like a. Almost like a trap. Right? Laymen don't realize when you. When a doctor says this can be used for. Oh, boy. You have just. This is. You're about to make a claim. True. So true. Watch out. The medical board, the fda, they're all watching again. Okay, I'm gonna watch. This doctor's making a claim because FDA approval.

Yes.

Is condition specific, so you have to go through a drug study to get that approval. However, in medicine, probably 60% of medicine is practiced off label, no approval, but there's a consensus. However, the way we're using these cells is that we're not using them as drugs. We're using them as a tissue transplant. We're allowing this is, this is why the legality part, you know, if you want to market and use these drugs, I mean, these stem cells as drugs, then you have to go through the fda. However, we're not using them as drugs. We're using them as tissue transplant. So it doesn't need to involve the fda. It involves the American association of Tissue Banks. You have to adhere to those standards. The FDA will issue guidelines. I mean, they, there's this, there. There's a sector of the FDA for the biologics, you know, that they control blood products, vaccines and, and then, you know, stem cells, et cetera. So they issue guidelines. However, if you use the tissue the way it's. The nature intended intended these cells to be used for that, you know, whatever that that means that. And you don't manipulate cells, then you're just providing tissue transplant. So what can you use them for?

So how do people use them? How are they used? Let's ask it that way.

The bottom line is that we are supplementing the body, supplementing the ability to heal and repair, the body's ability to hear heal and repair. So we are assisting the body. So that's. That's the bottom line. The cells are an origin of signals to assist the body. What does it assist? You know, what kind of things is it assisting? So assist in sending signals to your own stem cells to tell your own stem cells to wake up and start make more of yourselves. You know, be it live like a stem cell. Come on, you know, be a stem cell. Because what you do is that you divide asymmetrically. One is just a copy of yourself so you can keep, you know, doing this. The other one is a differentiated, more specialized cell. So do that. Right. So you wake up the cells a lot of times when the body is in a chronic condition. Is stuck. Is not getting the message through. The inflammation is so overpowering that the cells are just, just like kind of. Yeah. Stagnating and not really doing what it needs to be done. What needs to be done. So then the stem cells can come in and speak the right language into these cells, like whispering into your own stem cells and waking them up. And. Yeah, another one is it calm the inflammation, it secretes all these anti inflammatory, you know, cytokines and, and different, different growth factors. It can help calm the bout the body and reduced inflammation. Inflammation is very much the antithesis of growth of, of repair. So you may need inflammation in acute injury so you can bring about more action into the area. But if you don't move on from that initial acute reaction and you just get stuck there then, then the repair is never going to happen. So stem cells can calm the inflammation. It can also shift your immune system. So balances your immune system. If you have too, too overactive of an immune system like in autoimmune conditions, these cells can come calm it down. And if you have underactive like in cases of let's say infectious diseases or some other kind of. Yeah, just lack of repair, your immune system is not keeping up with the repair. Then the cells can actually boost your immune system and then it can break down scar tissue, you know, which is really cool. I'm talking specifically about mesenchymal stem cells because they're studied so much and they're everywhere in your body. So they're literally like a resident, like soldiers throughout your body. They're ready to fight for you and, and their job is to help you regenerate. So they will break down scar tissue. They have to. And they will grow blood vessels if they have to and they will tell your cells to make more tissue and they of course calm inflammation. They can salvage damaged tissue because you know when things are damaged like somebody has a crush injury, just the area or a stroke, the area that got damaged acutely is not actually the final damage. Oftentimes the area that the blood supply was not cut off ended up dying. Why? Because of signaling cascade from the damaged cells. When the cells die, they, they spill out all this, you know, signals, the calcium and all of a sudden the cells next to it start going down a pathway. So the stem cells can also salvage that, prevent that and they can also recognize cancer, which is really awesome. They have anti cancer properties. However, just remember, the older you are, the lesser the less the capability of your own stem cells to recognize cancer. Unfortunately.

Okay, so is this just a matter of. I'm thinking of my next door neighbor hearing this conversation saying can I just go and have some fat taken out? And then it being it be processed and I can use that more targeted therapy. From what I'm picking up from how you're talking about it, it would be an IV infusion so of my own stem cells so that my body can take them and use Them wherever they need to be used. Is that with. Is it as simple as that?

Certainly. Use your own. And I know plenty of doctors do that. So using fat is a very convenient source and a lot of people don't like their fat, so they're happy to.

Anybody please go on.

So, so yeah, so it's an easy way to just, you know, grab some cells. Because it's not really about the fat is really what we're trying to get. The blood vessels that supply your fat. So it's, it's. Yeah, because you, you can't take other tissue, right? Is, is it, you know.

Right. No, of course not. You know, we don't have extras, a.

Chunk of muscles, you know, so. Right, yeah. Or part of your organ. So you can't really do that. Fat is easily accessible and. But we're targeting the blood vessels that, that's supplying the fat cells and then you can get the stem cells out of that and use that. So I, I know a lot of patients and people have gotten good results. I've looked into it. When I first got into the field nine years ago, I was like, well, should I do bone marrow stem cells, Should I do fat derived stem cells? I will do whatever that's the most effective. And that's how I went on a deep dive and realized, oh, when I look at every parameter of the cells, they're not as metabolically active, they're not as anti inflammatory, the immune modulating, every property that you look at, they're just not as potent and also they have a harder time recognizing cancer. So when you put a stem cell, because from a direct study looking at a comparison of fat derived stem cells versus umbilical cord derived stem cells, you put them next to a cancer cell, in this case glioblastoma, they put the cancers, the, the tumor next to these different stem cells, either in a petri dish or on animal's body. So in both cases the fat derived stem cells make the tumor grow, whereas umbilical cord derived stem cells make the cancer shrink and go away day. So they are drastically different. And that's why I don't feel like if I'm a doctor, you know, we all evolve in medicine, right? Oh, here a new, a new and better medicine. You know, a new, a newer option, right? The new version of things. So if I have something that's better and that's safer, I'm just going to use that one. Like why would I devote my life to something that may give people less results and cause more problems? Right? So that that's me as a doctor of how I want to choose to treat my patients.

Treat? Yeah, choosing the most potent, the most, the most useful. So you're talking about the mesenchymal stem cells, right? The mscs, which is the umbilical cord source. Can those be grown in the lab?

Yes, they can. And actually they're done all the time. One reason people love MSC so much is because they are easily grown and they seem to retain their characteristics, except that they do change and lose some of the characteristics even with one passage. So the passage, you know, people talk of P1, P3, so those are passages. So each passage is when you put in cells in an incubator on a, on a, in a, in a container. When you reach confluence, so reach full capacity of the container. That's when you can separate them out, you know, know, seed them, you know, basically in, in different containers. And that's a passage. So every time you, you, you take them out to start to divide them, that's a passage. So even one passage they've noticed, oh, there are genetic changes. There are, yeah. The cells are morphing. The cells are not the original cells because the cells have a tendency to divide asymmetrically because that's who they are. Right? They're stem cell, that's what they do. Asymmetrical division. So they rarely do. They make perfectly identical copies of themselves. So that's a concern with your microscope or not as sophisticated equipment. You may be thinking that they're the same, but they're actually not genetically. They have moved on. So that's, that's a problem. So when they move on, what happens? They can secrete different cytokines, including some inflammatory ones, because it's stressful. Like they have no business in a petri dish. Like what's, what, what's going on there. That's a stressful environment. So they will secrete certain inflammatory molecules and also they start to differentiate. Right? Differentiate means gaining function. How do you gain function is through expressing different proteins. Then you can work, right? You use the proteins to work, you know, receptors and signals. So then you start to grow surface receptors and, and markers that the cells are no longer are expressing the genetic expression of the donor. Now you have a chance for rejection. So you've used very young cells from somebody else. Now you just increase your chance of rejection. So using umbilical core cells, you divide and divide and then you put back into somebody's body that's not the donor, then. Yeah, you have much higher chance of having side effects. And I've seen that over and over. I'm sure overseas a lot of clinics do good work and there are good results. However, there's also a higher chance of side effects and I've heard that quite frequently either. For some people it didn't work. For some people it caused severe fatigue for a few months. Tony Robbins even talk about this cytokine storm that oh, you're going to get. Cytokine storm is part of the picture, part of the healing process and then that is just not true.

Not true.

Okay. I have never seen cytokine storm. You shouldn't get them. No cells are pro processed properly and the, the, the treatment is provided properly. Yeah, you shouldn't have those.

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The Times. I've seen a couple of patients getting fevers and chills. And these are people who actually have some kind of underlying infection. So it's like your body is tricked, you know, triggered into this fighting mold. Yeah, but that's very, very rare.

Okay. Okay. And like when someone is having stem cell treatment, let's say they're having an IV infusion. What sort of things do they normally expect to feel? I know, normal is such a funny word. What, what do you see? Do they feel more energy? Do they sleep better? What, what is, what is it like having the experience?

Depending on if they were having problems. Right. If there's no problem, then the common thing is feeling more energy. Yeah. The energy is, is a main thing that people talk about. And people may feel, you know, have a higher sex drive, their focus is better.

That sounds pretty good, all of that, to be honest.

Aches and pains. Yeah.

Okay.

Go away. So that's the, the comment. Or just, you know, feeling rejuvenated, like a sense of well being. So that's. But a lot of people also say they don't notice any difference. I actually, I'm one of them. So when I, when I take it, because I've been taking it on regular, actually today I'm going to get another infusion. I do it every three months.

Months.

That is my anti aging, like the cornerstone of my anti aging regimen. So regular IV stem cells. And I've done, so I've done, you know, in nine years. That's a lot of stem cell infusions.

Sure.

And most of the time I don't notice anything. But it doesn't mean that it's not doing something for me. You know, I don't have anything wrong per se. But what, you want to keep it that way, but I'm also aging, right?

Yes.

Like all of us. Right. I don't think there's anyone living on this earth that's not aging. So the cells actually has incredible anti aging benefits. This has been demonstrated through animal studies. When they looked at mice and rats who only live for about 20 months, when they give them regular IV stem cells, they actually end up extending their lifespan by about 30%. That's been pretty consistent. And not just extending lifespan, but also health span. The mice and rats look a lot younger and they move better. Their, their cognition is better. Yeah. As if they were younger. And then when they dissected their muscles and brain and look at the neurotransmitters and the Growth factors and the cellular waste product accumulation, all the markers of where the, the, the cells is at as far as its, its health and, and age. Everything was dialed back, Everything was brought back to the earlier stage.

Wow, that's so interesting. Oh, there's. I have so many questions I want to ask you, but let me ask this because this show is ultimately for women in midlife perimenopause and menopause. Would you say that there is application for stem cell therapy for women in their menopause era?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's just, it's just part of the aging process. And I don't think it's, you know, menopause is anything mysterious is just a part of the aging of your reproductive system, your hormonal system. So if you have everything, you know, dialed in, you shouldn't suffer from those symptoms. So we know stem cells can enhance fertility. In some of the studies, not as many human studies, but definitely animal studies, one of them was very powerful. They were looking at perimenopausal rats. So there is a thing per menopausal rats. And they started giving them stem cells.

Okay.

And then they looked at their ovary, the size of the ovary, how many follicles it contains, and all the estrogen, progesterone production. And then the number of pregnancies, everything was improved. Right. A lot more pregnancies and, and better hormones. So everything was brought back to a younger state. So that's what it can do for your reproductive system. Yeah.

So I, I know. I, I feel we're, we're both dancing the line, right, of asking specific things about specific claims, let's say health claims. But I know there is a body of evidence on the ovarian senescence in particular. Are the, for those listening, the aging, the natural aging process of ovarian tissue and how that process turns on now the aging of bones, brain, heart and, etc, and so could it be that slowing the natural aging. I'm choosing my words very carefully, Dr. Kong.

You tell me if I need to.

Change what I'm saying. Changing the, the ovarian senescence could then keep all of those other systems healthier longer. Is that ultimately what we're talking about here?

I believe so, yeah. I think, I think that's why. Well, when you look at the animals that they, you know, everything. I, I don't, Yeah, I don't know if they, in that case, you know, the longevity study, they, they studied the fertility, but it's, it's the health of all your tissue. I mean, this is a global, Global effect. Yeah.

Fascinating. Fascinating.

Yeah. This is why this is. It's. I can't think of anything that's more holistic than stem cell therapy. It literally is the origin of messages of your body.

Yes.

All the messages.

It sure is.

All together. Yes.

Well, this is amazing because when I thought we were going to have this conversation, I was thinking about this conversation, doing my research for leading up to, to this chat. I thought we were going to be talking about can I do stem cells and have. Instead of having a hip replacement. Right. But actually what I'm realizing in talking to you is that it's not even that specific. We go way back and we just go, no, we're just going to make everything work better. Right. But I want to say that I think the first time I heard stem cells in the context of therapy, I was probably in my first two years or so of practice and I. Peyton Manning was the, the quarterback for the Indiana Colts at the time. And he was having, he might have been with the Broncos at the time. Anyways, forgive me, someone will tell me that I got that little statistic wrong, but he went off to Germany and had stem cells on his neck because he was having neck problems. And I remember thinking at the time, I was like, oh, I wonder how that works. Like, is that just an injection in the joint itself, of course. But again, I'm a joint doctor, so that's what I'm interested. That's what I'm looking at and thinking about it. But it's far more global than that. Okay, well, this is.

Thank you for educating my very first patient. I'll just give you an example. My very first patient, who was a 69 year old gentleman with osteoarthritis in both knees. And so he was concerned about his knees because two separate orthopedic surgeons told him, absolutely, you need bilateral knee replacement. You know, you're in bad shape. So that's what he was looking at. He didn't want that to happen. So he, and then I was like, well, I have stem cells. How about, let's try that? He said, yes, let's do it. So I give him an IV infusion of stem cells because really, when you look at osteoarthritis, why don't little kids have osteoarthritis? If you think the, the, the, the condition is a wear and tear disease is not a wear and tear disease, is an inflammatory disease. Your body can't keep up anymore. This is, your whole body is falling behind. So it has Nothing to do with wear and tear. Maybe when you were wearing and tearing and is making it more difficult now, you just created more injury. Now you can't heal. The problem is that you can't heal, not the injury itself. So. So the. We have to address the full body. I give him an iv. And also because the larger joints, like the knees and hips and shoulder, the outer one third of the cartilage is nourished by the blood supply. The inner two thirds are nourished by the synovial fluid. So you want to attack from both angles, you know, as far if you want to trigger those cartilage to regenerate. So I give him IV and put some in his knees. And what's funny was the next day he said, well, you know, I slept through the night, and I haven't slept the night for decades because every time when I rolled over, my rotator cuff injury that sustained when I was very young actually wakes me up. But I. I didn't wake up last night. And he never was bothered by that again. So what happened? Like you mentioned, the cells will do what they do. They go in there.

Yep.

They repair. Yes. They find places. The shoulder probably has been screaming, you know, for help, but your body just couldn't. Couldn't give the help. And cells recognize those signals. They. That's their job, to detect inflammation and injury, and they will aggregate in that area and start to produce the right. Give you the right signals. Right. Tell you what to do. And now your cells can hear clearly. Before, it was just like in a fog. Now it's all lifted. Now the cells can go to work. Now the tissue is getting repaired, the inflammation's down, and then you can repair. So that's the beauty of stem cell therapy. You know, of course, I was hooked. And, you know, I would be, too. Yeah. I was a psychiatrist. How do you think I felt? Right.

I thought you probably felt duped. You were like, wait a minute, why didn't anybody mention this to me before now?

Right. I was like, like your orthopedic surgeon needs to talk to me, you know, like, teach them something.

Wow. I can only imagine. Well, I feel just a little emoticum of the excitement that you must have felt at that time just listening to you speak about it. But also the.

Of course, now is nine years later, the guy's still walking around, still go to more trade shows than anybody I know. You know, he's walking around, walking four miles a day. It's beautiful. You don't have to subject yourself to that if you Wake up your body, then you, you will be. You may be very, very happily surprised.

So how do we find out for our international listeners? How do we find out if stem cells are being done in our country? Is there like an international governing body? How do we look into that if we don't happen to be nearby you?

Yeah, it's a little bit of Wild west, and a lot of countries are not very open. I know Canada is not open. Australia is not open. UK is not open. So we have people flying from all around the world to come to the U.S. yeah. So the places that are a little bit more open will be Central and South America. They seem to have, you know, they, they, they don't really, they don't feel that there's, they need to restrict this area so much.

Much.

But my issue with them is that they do expand the cells, which I don't think is necessary because we're getting tremendous results without changing these cells. When you change them, there's more side effects and there's more chance of rejection. And possibly they're less potent because that's what some research have shown, is that you can give 10 times the number of cells and end up having less results because the cells have changed and they're just not working as well.

Okay. No, that's good to know. Now, when you say not open, meaning not open to the harvesting of the tissue of the.

No, it's not open to the whole field.

I see.

So new. And they're so stuck in the conventional medical model.

Let's hope that's all changing as we have arrived into the age of Aquarius. But that's a conversation for another day. Let me ask this question because I am a personal fan of Dr. Peter Attia's work. And so when I talk about the Four Horsemen, the things that typically we. That it typically age us, cardiovascular disease, cancer, metabolic disease, and neurodegeneration. That's the question I have that, that's sort of left in my mind now. And I'm, I'm going to try to ask it in a way that we'll leave the, the, the. Your answer sort of open to whatever you need it to be. Is there an application for stem cells in neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, dementia, etc, which maybe I'll just pull back from that. Like, let's. Is there an application here? Is it being studied?

It has been research. Yes, there has been. I wish there's more, but there has been some research. Neurodegenerative conditions are definitely Some of the tougher conditions. But even in our clinic, we've seen just some really wonderful results. You know, getting people out of wheelchair and, you know, getting them to walk and. Yeah, it's. It's been pretty amazing. And, and dementia, really slowing. Not only slowing it down, but reversing. Right. Gaining better function, better brain function. So we've definitely seen that traumatic brain injury is tremendous when it comes to repairing the brain, Mississippi. I've had really good success with that. Yeah. So even als, you know, I remember a patient who, you know, started to be able to actually eat regular food, like eating beef from, you know, not. Not being able to swallow and pretty much relying on liquids. Yeah. So definitely, we. We've seen some interesting things, wonderful things that, that, that. No, no other routes are able to. To. To. To bring. Yeah, right.

Okay, I got what you're saying. So stem cells then can cross the blood brain barrier.

The mesenchymal stem cells can't to some extent.

Okay.

It's not. Not a thoroughfare, but some can get through. But in our clinic, we do use Manitol to infuse patients prior to the stem cells because they actually shrink the gap junctions of the. The blood brain barrier is commonly used in emergency rooms when somebody has had a brain injury to allow the fluid to come out of the, you know, the, the brain and, you know, instead of the brain in the brain, but actually leave. Leave the brain region open up the. The blood brain barrier. But we use the. The fact. The fact that they are more open so more cells can actually pass through. The mantle also has its own antioxidant and neuroprotective effect. So it's nice to. To combine the two. And then we can use exosomes, which will cross the blood brain barrier with no issues because there are nanoparticles secreted by the stem cells. So if you let the stem cells circulate, they will produce all these exosomes, and the exosomes will get to the brain. However, we. In our clinic, we also do intranasal route, allowing more to be uptaken directly into the brain because your mucous membrane and then your nerves will actually take these particles into the brain. Wow.

Well, we're, We're. This is Jetson style science today. I love it. I'm just totally here for all the wonderful ways we are learning how to do it better. That's the way I look at it. And I have just learned a whole lot from you today. Dr. Kong, thank you for bringing your information to the show. I think this will be really useful. There'll be somebody that will be listening, that will, they've been waiting for what you just talked about and hopefully many people. So where can people find out more about you and, and your stem cell therapy?

Yeah, so I, I'm, you know, doing several things. I, I have a, a clinic in Los Angeles. I also have an academy where I train a lot of physicians. I'm the founder of a stem cell pro company that provide products and I've developed formulations that are really unique and with high potency. So I'm all about integrity. So scientific integrity or just integrity as a business? You know, how do you bring integrity to, to what you do and to give people the best type of cells? And you know, to me that's really important. And unfortunately in this space, in the stem cell space, there's a lot of lack of integrity and that's why I decided to do it on my own. But so in my website, joyconmd.com it talks about everything that I do. I've also developed a skin cream called Char Omni and that's a stem cell cream. It's a 100 natural. It's got stem cells and peptides and a lot of herbal extracts and antioxidants, prebiotics. So it's a pretty amazing cream. And then I wrote a memoir, Tiger Beijing. So everything is there. So if people want to, want to look at that. And then my YouTube channel is a really good resource.

It's.

Anyone wants to know a lot more about stem cell therapy, please go to my YouTube channel. It's Joy Kong, MD. Just yesterday I published, published one talking about side effects of stem cell therapy. So there's still, you know, it's a, it's a conversation. There's so many things to go over if we're talking about side effects because the cells are going to be different. Like what kind of cells are you talking about and how's the doctor using it? How's the doctor giving it to you? I mean, all these are facts, factors. So you, you. That you can't just say, oh yeah, you side effects. It's not simple, right? But I, I break a lot of different topics down. So that's a really good resource. And people can find me on Instagram too, I guess, just at Dr. Underscore. Joy underscore Kong. And, and people can contact me if they want to.

Okay. I love it. By the way, are you using your own cream because your skin is gor. Just.

Oh, I am. Yeah. I'm definitely. My, my. I would say My two tricks is IV stem cell infusion and my own cream. That. That's it.

Okay. I'm looking at you, and you're gonna tell me that your age is like 117. And I'm looking at you going, you look 27.

Oh, thank you so much. Well, I'll tell you my age. I'm. I'm. Well, I'm almost 54. I'm 53 years old. Yeah.

And fabulous.

Thank you. Yeah. So, I mean, we're. That's why, you know, when you said anti aging, you know, this is a real possibility that we're here. And I say, yes, it is a little scary because it's uncharted territory. All of a sudden, we can live as if we are, you know, younger and for a very, very long time. So we just. We're literally. It's a time. We're creating two kinds of humans. One kind is the one that's a regular one, the regular aging. Right. If you're 50, you look 50, you're 60, you look 60, and that's it. And then there's going to be a whole other group. They're going to be 50, 60, 70, and they still look like they're 40. Like, what's up with this group?

I want to be in that group.

That's the real reality. Yeah.

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for dispensing this information on the show. I think it is just so unique and interesting to hear where medicine, where science is around this regenerative practice. So thank you, Dr. Joy Khan.

It is here to stay, let me tell you, is not going anywhere. Even though the government is not really. They say they're supportive. They're not. Not really. So they could be better. Industry making. Yeah. People jump through a lot of hoops and. And trying to catch people, you know, they can't talk about science, they can't talk about research. For example, I was made to take down any mention of research studies in our company's website because that is equivalent in their eyes to making claims.

That's what happens when a bureaucrat makes decisions and not a medical professional.

So when is it not okay for me to shine, to share scientific information? Why? Why is that? Just. Why is that not good? Like, so don't people deserve to know?

Yes.

Anyhow. So despite that.

Yes.

Stem cells are just getting hotter and hotter and hotter. It's like a wildfire they can't contain, period. Because people want to feel better. People are sick and tired of being sick. Right. They. Yes. Who wants to be in live this life and be sick and. And you tell them that there's no way to get better, but they found about stem cells. Their friends got better. So they're going to try it. You can't stop that.

No. No, you can't. They're going to try because they always do. And humans will find a way because, as we always do. And innovation is a beautiful thing.

Yes.

And human ingenuity, when those two things go together, it's fireworks. And as I said, I'm here for courage.

Have some courage. I want. I want doctors. I want doctors who grow. Grow some. A pair. Yeah, you have some courage. You know, do what. Yeah, right. That's right. You can. You girls can. Can have very big pairs.

And we just. I love it. We just run a bunch of words and let's throw in curiosity and integrity in there, too. And if we all operated from those places, the world would just be a better place, just overall. Dr. Kong, I have a question. I ask everyone at the end of the show that I'd like to ask you now, please, if I may. And please have some fun with it. Don't be too serious about it. It's all good.

Okay.

Knowing what you know now in your life, what would you tell your younger self?

Yeah. I don't know. You know, I've always been pretty courageous and pretty. Yeah. Very driven, but probably just not take myself so seriously. Yeah. Because it really. It really is kind of a game. This life is a gift. You're here to play. You're here to play this game and have fun and to enjoy that. That. That's the thing. I think what every one of us, you know, should. Should remember. But. Yeah.

Don't be so serious. Right.

That's right. Yeah. Keep it light. And I like that. Yes.

You are the tiger of Beijing. I like this.

Oh, yeah. If anyone's interested in listening to my story, it's on Amazon. Tiger Beijing. And it's also on Audible, so it's a good story. Yeah. I'm just gonna tell people. Caveat, please. If you want to know how I got into regenerative medicine, you're not going to find that in the book. The book is a good story. It's about how I came to America and how I survived the first two years. None of the two was easy.

So it's the trials and tribulations that make us in the end.

Yeah.

Dr. Joy Kong, thank you for coming on the not yout Mother's Menopause podcast.

Yeah. It's been such a pleasure.

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