How to Combat Ageing and Diseases Through Stem Cell Therapy with Dr Joy Kong

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Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tarmity. Brought to you by lisatarmity.com hi everyone and welcome to this week at Pushing the Limits. Today I have a fantastic doctor to guest. Dr. Joy Kong, MD. She is the founder of Chara Biologics. She's an anti aging and regenerative medicine specialist and the president of the Theia center for Regenerative Medicine in Los Angeles, California. And she's also the founder and president of the American Academy of integrative cell therapy. Dr. Kong has just such a broad range of expertise and is someone who has really del into stem cell research and this is what we're going to be talking about today. I'm very, very excited this for this anti aging and regenerative field of stem cells. Dr. Kong graduated as a valedictorian from San Francisco State University and completed a medical training at UCLA School of Medicine. And she's a triple board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, American Board of Addiction Medicine and the American Board of Anti Aging and Regenerative Medicine. She's from China. She originally came from Beijing and Immigra States at the age of 20 where she's gone on to have such an illustrious career. And I do hope that you enjoy this episode today with Dr. Kong. She's fantastic. Before we head over to the show, just to remind you to check out what we do@lisatamity.com is my main website. We have our epigenetics program where we help people understand what their genes are all about their DNA and how to optimize their lifestyle, their food, their fitness programs, their mood and behavior, understand their hormones, all of these aspects that go into making up a healthy lifestyle. So if you're interested in that, make sure you head over to lisatantey.com we also do everything anti aging and longevity. That's my specialty. That's what I am interested in and have been studying for a number of years. So everything from the keto diet right through to stem cell therapy right through to hyperbaric oxygen therapy, we cover it all in the show on Pushing the Limits and I hope you enjoy it. And we also have lots of health Consulting programs, our epigenetics and anti aging supplement range as well, as well as our Run Coach fitness training, all of that sort of good stuff. So head over to leesatamity.com and check out our programs. Now over to the show with Dr. Joy Kong. Well, hey everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits Today. I have a fantastic guest for you. Now this lady is absolutely mind blowing and I've already given you her biology and the intro, so I won't go through all that again. But Dr. Joy Kong, welcome to the show. It's fantastic to have the honor to have you on today. So really excited.

Thank you so much, Lisa. I'm so happy to be here with you.

It's just fascinating. Julie, can you give us a little bit of background about your story because it's quite interesting. You have an unusual background of how you came to be where you are in Los Angeles now. But you weren't born in America, right?

I was born in China, so I grew up in Beijing the first 20 years I spent in Beijing and actually wrote a memoir about how I came to the US Called Tiger of Beijing. So you can get a little flavor of the punchiness, the story. But it's a very fascinating journey of how I even made it to the US because my first visa was rejected. And that's where my book started. And so it talked about how I actually ended up getting to America through fairly unconventional route. And then after I got to America, how things became difficult and how I survived the first two years. So just a three year journey. It's an interesting story, but basically you have a different cultural background, right? Growing up in China on a university campus, very science driven. But Chinese medicine is everywhere, right? It's part of life and it's been around for thousands of years. But we're also a very science driven family. My dad is engineer, my mom chemist. So we love science, we believe in science. So in our family medicine drawer there will be Chinese medicine, there would be Western medicine. They're all mixed together. Like you can't tell you just my mom just go in and grab and find whatever that works for that particular condition. So it's all, there's no prejudice, it's just all about okay, for this, this Chinese medicine worked much better. And for this problem, okay, let's do this Western medicine that works much better than the Chinese medicine. So that was the way was and knowing that sometimes Chinese medicine works really well and then also beginning to understand, actually read the book called the Web with no Weavers. Really interesting was the journalist who went with Nixon to China on the first trip where he witnessed that either him, I can't remember him or a colleague got appendicitis. And the Chinese doctors were able to do the operation under acupuncture, not anesthesia. So he was like, how is this possible? What's going on in this country? So he started to dig into Chinese medicine and then he realized this is a. The medicine is a web approach, looking at the human body as a complex web and with no weaver, probably the weaver's God. We don't know who the weaver is, but this is an incredible mystery, incredible web. The Chinese medicine or Ayurveda, these traditional medicines, they were able to look at from a system view. So they look a little step higher. So they're able to see how the web and one part of the web may affect another part of the web. Just think about all the knots, you know, on the web. So they're able to look at it from a system view. And that's what's lacking in Western medicine. So when I was in medical school, it's great at looking at linear relationships from A to B, but if you have CDFG and then, you know, like the whole Alphabet, then you get crazy because you don't know how everything's affecting each other. So the Western medicine doesn't yet have a system to understand how you put all these, you know, all these relationships together. That's where it's lacking. And that's where I wanted to borrow some of the wisdom from Eastern medicine where you can look at the body from a system point of view. But when I was trying to incorporate Chinese medicine with Western medicine, I also ran into the problem of the two systems speaking completely different languages. So one is, you know, equations and you know, formulas and you know, the scientific, you know, the linear explanation. The other one is speaking poetry. So it's, you know, cloud dampness. It was like, how am I going to put the two together? And what happened was that I encountered, you know, functional medicine or anti aging medicine. You know, it's just a name. It's really about this new branch of medicine was trying to look at the body as a system and they're trying to look at a lot of new therapies. So instead of being stuck in the medication route, they're looking at, you know, is a dog body toxic as a hormone, imbalanced? What about all these hormones? How are they interacting with each other? You know, what about nutrition? What about all these vitamins, minerals, antioxidants? How are they going to interact with everything. So they were looking at all these angles. And that I thought was a perfect approach to bring the two systems together. Because we can investigate why Chinese medicine or Ayurvedic medicine, why those herbs work by using Western language. But we can look at it from, you know, it gets complex. So I think at one point, you know, maybe we'll bring in artificial intelligence. We'll bring in something that can simulate that level of complexity. Because right now we're not. Medicine is not handling it very well. That's why people are so sick. People spent, you know, their, the end of their life being miserable sick. So what people were saying was that we're not extending, you know, lifespan. It's like a, you know, like. Right. So we're extending the time that people are sick and spend all their money on medications in the hospitals and then you die in the hospital and you spend another huge fortune. So it's great for the medical system, the hospital, the drug companies, they're doing great. They're making a ton of money, you know, in your, you know, last 20 years of life. But is that how we want to live? That. That's when I know this new form of medicine is going to take over. You know, I think just like how we look at medicine, you know, like 150 years ago, we're like, how could the doctors do that? You know, that is so barbaric. 50 years from now, they're going to look at what we're doing now, what the doctors are doing now. They're going to be pulling their hairs out and saying, how could doctors do that? That is the dumbest thing. You know, that is so counterproductive. So we're going to get to that point, but we're just in that transition point where the, you know, the old, you know, the die hard is going.

To establishment is not going to go easy.

Yeah, that's the way we've been doing things. We are the smart ones. Who are you to tell us that you have a better way? So, yeah, there's a clashing, but there is.

But the statistics aren't lying. I mean, we have the worst statistics and I mean, America has got the biggest outlay on per capita on healthcare and is one of the worst countries as far as the health data goes. Right. And obesity is rampant, chronic diseases are rampant. And we're not, you know, I think where western medicine is so brilliant when it comes to broken bones and, you know, surgery, injuries and hip replacements and, you know, all of those sorts of things, they do really, really brilliantly. But when it comes to chronic disease or health, and this is what this whole show is about, is about health optimization and being in the preventative space. When I go to a doctor here, unless they're a functional medicine doctor, they have a different approach, as you just said. But when I ask, I'm working with clients and I do DNA testing and epigenetics in my practice, and I said, can you get these bloods done with your doctor? Right. Because I can't order bloods. Right. I'm not a doctor. Very often they'll go and they'll go, what do you want those for? You know, you don't. Do you have a problem in that area or this area? Like, you know, But I want to know what's under the hood so that I don't get those problems, you know, and this approach and what's coming down the line with all that, with the technology and this is what we all going to dive into today in your specialty area. But there is just so much cool stuff happening, and I'm just like temping it a bit to get some of the technology down here and get the wearables and get the CGMs and the, you know, all the stuff that's going to give us this feedback so that we have an insight into our own bodies and what's actually happening and a better, better look. And I'm excited for this, this change, but it is coming difficult and it's still very much. And, you know, having personal experience with my own family of, of fighting against the system pretty much for the last, you know, six, seven years with both my parents and their journeys, I just, it's not, this is not a, a crusade against doctors. This is just like this system is not quite right here. We need to be looking and being in that preventative space. And I love the idea of marrying, you know, the traditional medicine with the, in bringing instead of this arrogant attitude that the Western medicine has had to date, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, rubbish, you know, because it was in that poetic language. And now they're starting to go, hang on a minute. They've got something which is cool.

Things have changed a lot. Even just acupuncture has been, you know, from when I first came to us 30 years ago, if I talk about acupuncture, even though I was in San Francisco, you think it's a very progressive place, but people still look at you sideways and they think that you're just, you know, you know, a little weird. But now, I mean, it's been probably 15, 20 years that it's covered by insurance. So now all of a sudden everybody talks about acupuncture. Yeah, I see. Acupuncture. Yeah, it helps me. It is no big deal anymore. So you can see, see the progression in the changes in our consciousness. And the same thing happened with stem cells. So you know, when I got into anti aging medicine quickly, stem cells was part of the anti aging, you know, you know, strategy because it's such a powerful, you know, powerful discipline and these powerful treatments. And so when I saw how it actually helped people and how well they worked, and then when I saw all the evidence that's out there and you know, all these studies across the globe, that's what's really, really exciting. So that's when I went really deep. But what's funny was when I first got into it about, about six years ago, you know, people will come to me and they will ask me, Dr. Kong, tell me about stem cell, what exactly is the stem cell? Like? What, what are they exactly? But now people will come to me. No one asked that anymore. They know I know about stem cell. I know as incredible. But hey, doctor, I have this condition. Do you think stem cells can help me? So you can see, even just within five, six years, huge change.

And this is, and this is part of what you're doing now. So the stem cell, let's go and do a deep dive into stem cell and the regenerative and anti aging stuff that you do. And I mean you are the founder of the American Academy of Integrated Cell Therapy. You teach other physicians about stem cell therapies. You are an absolute expert. And there was a lot of clinical research that you have been part of in New Zealand. It is just beginning. I think like there is a couple of doctors from, from what I can research, there may be more, but that are, that are starting to get into it. But it's, it's even. We're probably a few years behind you. Can you explain what is stem cement cell therapy, how it works and why does it have such a massive range of diseases and ailments that it can help? I think we'll start there.

I think one of the things that's confusing for people is that I think the stem cell field, it's complex because when people say stem cells as if there's some magical cells that are stem cells, but really there's like this gradation of different levels of cells that are powerful and primitive and they're all stem cells. But there could be, you know, a Hundred or a thousand different layers of evolution. So what happens if you imagine when you were conceived, fertilized egg, that is your number one zero generation stem cell, right? So we all came from that, you think of this complex, complex organism. We came from that single, single cell. And what made that cell so powerful? The DNA within that cell is capable of interpreting the environment of self evolving and self generating. That is the intelligence that's embedded in that DNA. From that one cell, you get all these other stem cells. They all start to form, divide and form different structures and then they start to hollow out. And then the cells on the inside is forming the organism that's the baby and the outside is the placenta. So the, all these tissues contain stem cells. It's only until the organs are being formed. Then you have specific specialized cells. Those are not stem cells anymore. So liver cells, your skin cells, all these are, have you differentiated into a particular cell of a function, it's called an organ, you know, tissue specific cells. So these are not stem cells anymore, but what comes before them. They were all stem cells, but they're, you know, huge variation of what they are. Some are going toward your, you know, nervous system, skin, some are going toward your bone and muscles, and some are more internal, you know, GI tract and pancreas. So all these have different specialization. They may all be stem cells. So how do we, what do we utilize? So right now, the gold standard, what's really popular is mesenchymal stem cells because these are something that has a more generalized function. I think the stem cell field probably is going to move into something more specialized at some point. But you can never ignore the general regenerative properties of mesenchymal stem cells because they modulate the environment that all other stem cells work in. So you think of mesenchymal stem cells. Just think about your blood vessels all along, all around your body, everywhere, anywhere you have blood vessels, you will see these mesenchymal stem cells huddling around the blood vessels and they are sensing what's going through the blood. They're also sensing what's going on in the environment. So they're modulating and they're sending out signals, the blood to bring things, you know, you know, to your system to bring in maybe immune cells, maybe other hormone signals. So they're, they're telling your, your overall system what to do, what to bring. But then they're also talking to the local environment, maybe directing what's going on locally, but also talking with the local tissue specific stem cells. So those are the cells can only form cells of that particular tissue. Yep. So they are. They're having this coordinating effect.

If you had defined mesenchymal for somebody who doesn't.

Has never heard, that was just a name. A chemo from the mesoderm layer. So when you're formed, babies formed ectoderm. Mesoderm, ectoderm. So they're just different germ layers that, you know, the embryo, the cells start to, you know, evolve. So it's a little bit misleading, even though it came from the mesoderm layer. But these cells have such a vast level of capabilities. And this is why the doctor who discovered mesenchymal stem cells said, I don't want. It's a misnomer, you know, to call them mesenchymal stem cells is giving the wrong idea to people. Because what these cells do, really, is to produce signals and coordinate this regeneration. So he wanted to rename it medicinal signaling cells.

Wow.

So that's.

That's.

It's a very special category of cells. But you also have other cells. We can. But we're not there yet. We can always get cells, let's say embryonic stem cells, or get cells from your own skin or from, you know, your other cells and induce them to go into an embryonic state and then use other signals to trick the cells into developing into a particular direction. So then you get tissue specific. Let's say you want neurons. And then you can trick the embryonic stem cells or the induced embryonic, like stem cells, induce them into that direction and help them to replenish cells in that particular organ. But what we're doing right now using mesenchymal stem cells is that we're changing the environment and we're waking up local stem cells. So that's where we're at right now. And just. That has been pretty powerful, has been giving people a lot of hope. And I think that hope is really important. There's so many conditions where traditional doctors just said, you know, there's no more we can do. And then they come to do stem cells, and they get incredible results. So we are, you know, transforming people's lives.

Absolutely. So. So if we go into. Then what. So these mesenchymal stem cells, are these harvested from umbilical tissue and birth tissue that's, you know, no longer required when the baby is born. So from the umbilical cord, from the placenta and then stored and then processed and do whatever you guys do with it. Is that where these. Most of these mesenchymal stem Cells that you're using and therapies come from or is this from also from? Because I know you can get stem cells from fat tissue. So what is the difference there?

And fat tissue has a lot of mesenchymal stem cells. It's not the fat itself, is the body blood vessels that are supplying the fat. So because rich in blood vessels, so you're getting the cells out of the blood vessels. So basically when you harvest a fat, all the cells that are lining the blood vessels, they get harvested. So bone marrow is another source of stem cells, but they are more off the hematopoietic progenitor cell type. The mesenchymal stem cells is very, very small quantity. It's about 0.01 to 0.1% of the cells are actually mesenchymal stem cells. So they're tiny quantities. So what I use is birth tissue derived stem cells and these are from healthy births. Babies are live and healthy at the time of birth. They clamp the cord and cut it. And the procurement company are there to collect the tissue that's going to be tossed into the biological waste basket otherwise. And they collect them, put in a saline bag and then put it on ice to ship to tissue banks to be processed. So that's what I prefer. The reason I prefer that and I have actually YouTube video where I went pretty detailed into scientific evidence of why I think that's the better source. I really went into researching that with no prejudice whatsoever. I just wanted the best source for patients. I wanted to understand what the differences are between these different tissue sources. Because you have bone marrow derived, fat derived and birth tissue derived. And these are the three main camps. And I just want people to have the best results and to be the safest. Yeah. So when I. So the, the YouTube video is called Are All MSCs Created Equal? Yep. So it turns out they're not. So if you're getting it from adult tissue, from the bone marrow versus from fat versus from the birth tissue, even within the birth tissue compartments, you know, different compartments, whether or not it's amniotic membrane or Wharton's jelly or placenta, everything or cord blood, you know, all these different compartments will contain different groups of cells. So you want to understand what you're giving people. And the, you know, from all the studies I've looked at, really when you look at potency of these cells, the umbilical cord, the birth tissue derived stem cells are more primitive, they are more active, they have more anti inflammatory capabilities, they have more ability to shift your immune system. And they have longer telomeres, they have more generations left, they have broader range of directions that they can differentiate, so they're more powerful. And when you look at their surface markers, they're kind of in between embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells. So adult stem cells, let's just say adult MSCs have lost a lot of these primitive surface markers. That shows that they have more potentials. But the good thing is that when it's embryonic stem cells, I mean, when it's umbilical cord or birth tissue derived stem cells, these cells not only have some of the capabilities of the embryonic stem cells, because they're more primitive, because they were trapped when the umbilical cord and placenta when they were forming. So they're trapped in there and they kept a lot of the primitive characteristics. So they're more potent. But they don't have the kind of potential like the embryonic stem cells that actually can cause tumor formation, can cause tumor, like new tumor called teratoma. These are uncontrolled growth of different cells types, you know, of different tissues. You know, hair, teeth, and you know, muscles, everything clumped together is a crazy growth. So embryonic stem cells, or even induced embryo, embryonic like stem stem cells, pluripotent stem cells, they all have that potential. We still can't, we haven't been able to harness them or control them adequately.

It's too dangerous to do that at.

The moment because that could end up use embryonics. But when you use umbilical cord stem cells, you avoid that type of problem. So birth tissue stem cells avoid that kind of crazy tumor.

Yeah. Which could end up in cancer or something.

Yeah, exactly. But they're also safer than adult stem cells because adult stem cells have lost some of the intelligence of detecting cancer. There's a lot of instances of adult stem cells actually promoting existing cancer. They probably won't form new cancer, but if you have existing cancer, because they tell everything to grow, so they ended up telling cancer to grow. But the younger stem cells from birth tissue have much better capability of detecting that cancer. So it can tell the cancer to die. It actually gives specific signals to tell the cancer cells to go on programmed cell death. They have direct comparisons between fat derived stem cells versus umbilical cord derived stem cells. Both are MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, and drastically different results. The fat derived stem cells caused the tumor to grow and the, the birth tissue umbilical cord derived stem cells made the cancer shrink and go away.

Yeah, that's how drastic so that's really good because I never understood the difference between the stem cells that are derived from fat and the stem cells that are derived from umbilical cord or for the birth tissue and why there's such a difference. And I sort of. When you said the telomere length is a lot, much longer, their ability to reproduce for longer. So that makes sense that you would want to get the earlier tissue and before it's differentiated. And this is, you know, like for, for people trying to understand the, you know, a pluripotent stem cell can become anything that it can regenerate into whatever is required by the body. Like when I hop on that hyperbaric chamber there. Hyperbaric has been shown to produce more of your own stem cells. So this is not a stem cell infusion or, or stem cell thera helps produce more of your own stem cells. However, these are older stem cells still, aren't they? They're not like you say, that have come from an early situation where it's actually got more potential to do more therapeutic good. And so the safety of the umbilical cord or the, the, the, from the young tissue from, from, from birth is much safer, is what you're saying, than using the stem cells.

That's the evidence I've seen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. So how does one get stem cell therapy? Like, is this an infusion? Is this. You also have a skincare range, which I've been blessed to have received some, and I've only had it for a couple of weeks, but I'm feeling like I'm younger already. How can you use this? How. So you can use this topically, it can actually get through the skin layers and actually do good.

Cells are not alive anymore. In the skin cream, it's almost impossible to keep them alive, but they do contain a lot of these signals and these very young, very vibrant and powerful signals is what's helping with the regeneration of the skin.

I'm counting on it can tell you that much.

Yeah. But as far as how you, you can utilize these cells really depends on what you're trying to do. So if you have a, you know, you're a young athlete, you have, you know, you just injured your ligament, tendon, you know, joint, we can inject directly into that site and you may heal very well. But if you are an older person and this was an older injury, and somehow there's deterioration going on. So what's called osteoarthritis, and that's when it's a chronic inflammatory condition because your body is not able to keep up with repairing and so there's even if it's a joint is inflamed, if you put a, they've shown if you put a cartilage construct so like a fresh new piece of cartilage you put into osteoarthritic knee, the construct away. So, so, so it's not that you're wearing it down, it's not you're wearing and tearing is because you cannot keep up, you cannot maintain tissue. For those cases then we need to help the whole body to better be able to regenerate, calm the inflammation so your body is younger and that I do believe that you need to have a systemic approach.

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So for those who have osteoarthritis, I actually do both IV injection and inject into the knee itself and the result has been amazing. First of all, when you have large joints like the knee or hip or shoulders, the outer one third of the cartilage is nourished by the blood supply and the inner 2/3 is nourished by the synovial fluid. When you inject into synovial fluid, that's great, you can get to the inner 2/3 but the outer 1/3 you can't. Reach through the blood supply, you can actually reach that. But not only that, we know that these cells interact with your immune system, with your spleen, with your lymphoid system and it actually help change the internal environment of your body. So of course it's going to get to a lot of different places as well. So wherever you have inflammation. And that's what I've seen in my patients. That's why it's so elegant. It almost doesn't matter what kind of conditions you have. Sure. You know, if I have brain disorder, I may do something more special, you know, joint. I do something different. Maybe it's, you know, penile issues. I may inject locally, hair restoration, I can inject locally. But for the majority of the problems I can just put the cells in your body and the cells will find its way and then what do its work? And this is why it's so fun to be a doctor. Therapy not only is so powerful, but it's. I'm counting on their own intelligence. Yeah.

So it does its own repair. And I'm so glad that you said this about the inflammatory process. I have a good friend who's a longevity specialist in regenerative. You'd love her actually. Dr. Elizabeth Yurth out of Boulder, Colorado. And I've done a lot of courses with her and she's a regenerative medicine specialist. And she says the problem with stem cells is if the person, if they have not gone and done the regenerative stuff, they're getting rid of the inflammation first and doing what you say, like you've got the stem cells just going into the knee joint, for example, without doing the systemic stuff and without addressing the inflammatory disease process that's going on in the body, then you're not going to get the full effect. You'll get some effects, but not the full effect.

Is that how edged sword? So there has been evidence that high inflammation actually make the stem cell work better. So basically the inflammation of the body sends signals so they make these cells more active. So it's double edged sword. That's why I don't say, oh, I can't give you stem cells unless you calm your inflammation. No, no, no, we're going to treat your inflammation. Right. We're going to, we're going to help you, we're going to help you regenerate. Your inflammation can get relief from these cells because your inflammation can actually, you know, like, like almost like trigger these cells to work harder. But at the same time we do want to address your whole body. It's very important that we reduce the toxicity. We, you know, get your nutritional to status to the right place. And we use, you know, energy therapy to, you know, optimize your cells. There's so many things, you know, oxygen, ozone. There's so many things you can do to talk to your body to make sure it's got all the ingredients to work correctly. But you don't have to wait until the inflammation is down in order to get stem cells and you're, you're, you're.

Doing the cells systemically plus into the actual joint. If we're talking about a joint issue or, and helping the body to, on a systemic level, I suppose like with the hyperbaric oxygen, that's also very much a panacea, a thing that can help so many. I shouldn't say panacea is probably the wrong word, but it helps so many different ailments because it's hyper oxygenating the body, it's attacking the inflammation, it's producing more stem cells. And so the body is intelligent enough to go, well I need a bit of that down here or up there or wherever it needs it. And it's working on that systemic level. I'm just putting, you know, two and two together on my basic understanding of.

Yeah, you're right. And I've seen that over and over again. You know, I can give people some cells and all of a sudden, you know, their, their neuropathy symptoms were going away or you know, some people have liver issues that, that you know, got resolved long and you know, or traumatic brain injury, people with, you know, psoriasis and some kind of systemic conditions and people with even testicular swelling and nodules, you know, that some of the nodules went away and, and you know, resolved. I saved somebody's testicle. So it really. But the treatment is very similar. I put it in the vein and that's how powerful they are.

And so this is an infusion. Do you have to have a whole course of these infusions or injection. Are they injections or infusions that you do it?

Well, a lot of times you can do injections as well. So even if you inject something into the muscle, this is where, you know, silly. Everything is systemic. So whatever you put in the body is all going to be systemic. So even if you put in the muscle. Yes, they can live in the muscle for some time, but muscles also have blood supply and they can get into the blood supply and become systemic. So it's. Yeah, so yeah, they're gonna find their way. But this is Those dependent, if you have a lot of inflammation, you put a little bit of cells in there, it may get to one place with inflammation and then decide to stay there. And there's really not that many cells to go around. If you have flaming inflammation all over your body, then there's only so much that this group of cells can do that you may need another treatment. What I tell people is that if someone has a fairly significant illness, doesn't matter which organ, we probably are looking at at least two or three sessions to really see if, if this is helping. You know, we can't expect just one treatment that's going to fix everything. And if it didn't work, then, oh my God, stem cells doesn't work. That is not fair. Because all the medications, everything has a dose and has a regimen to it. And stem cells are no different. You don't say, oh, just because the stem cell, not medication. So it's not, we're not going to look at the dose and we're not going to look at a treatment program. It's the same thing like medications, you may need to, you know, three doses, you know, over the course of three to six months, which is what I do. And, but if someone just come to me for anti aging purposes, you can do it, you know, every one to every three to six months. So you just, you don't have to do, you know, a series. But if you have any serious issues, we probably need to do a series.

Do a series and really get that inflammation and all that systemic benefit from it.

Wave a repair. It's built upon the previous wave.

Okay. And you, like, you've, you teach other positions, you've established the Integrative Cell American Academy. You're, you're incredible. Like, you're at the cutting edge of this and you've only been involved in the space for the last six years. Like, how did you like, end up being the boss in this space, so to speak?

Well, no, I'm not the boss. I'm just really driven and really want to understand. I think it's intellectual curiosity and it's passion because I went into medicine to really make a difference for people's lives. I want to see them actually transform and heal and do better. And I was in psychiatry before and a lot of medications were actually helping patients a lot. But there's nothing like functional medicine that's looking at all the root causes. So when I found that and when I found stem cells, which is probably the most holistic treatment you can ever seek, this is really, it's addressing the whole web because the cells are talking to all your systems all at once. All these signals. You can't even imagine how complex it is, right? Because the cells are doing its work. They are using the kind of intelligence that created you. You can't compare. You can't. No drugs, you know, no devices can there to the intelligence that created us. So, you know, it's really. Because this is so exciting, this is so revolutionary. You know, I tell people this is the first time in history that we are injecting intelligence. We're not injecting a molecule or a group of molecules like in herbs. Were injecting intelligence itself. That's why it's so exciting. So I just kept reading, I kept studying. I was like, what the hell is going on? This is just so cool. And seeing how I can help all these patients and no other doctors can help. I mean, I had no business doing this. I was doing psychiatry. But, you know, I love medicine overall. I mean, I chose to study psychiatry. I could have very well gone into neurology, but neurology was giving people no hope. I was like, I just want to be a depressed neurologist who's diagnosing people left and right and give them no tools to heal. Like, well, I don't want to do that. At least in psychiatry, I can give people medications and stabilize them and give them a better quality of life. So that's why. But, you know, I'm a doctor, so, you know, all this is exciting. So when I see how this one simple treatment, right? A group of cells that have this primitive young intelligence, I give it to the body and all of a sudden I can be a rheumatologist. I can be an orthopedic surgeon. I can be, you know, dermatologist. I mean, I urologist, I'm everything. This is. How fun is that? So I'm. I'm looking because I love science, I love medicine. So I'm reading articles from all these different, different disciplines, right? That's what the academy. My course actually divides the evidence into different organ system and disease categories. There are like 30 categories. So I get to learn everything. So it's super fun. So then you realize that there's all these common themes between all these organs. So that's why the treatment can be so elegant. And the cool thing about stem cells is that it's accepted by everybody. Because if you are a new age or naturopathic person, your integrative doctor, holistic doctor, you're very, very drawn to this because this is Very holistic, very natural. And it taps into your body's own intelligence, treats things at a root causes level. But if you're traditional or conventional medicine, doctor, you're all about science. And that's where stem cell science came from. It came from conventional medicine. So don't knock it.

Right.

You know, that's how we found that there are stem cells. So embrace that. It's because of modern medicine. That's how we even know that there are stem cells. So this is true integration. And it's what you've been. Both fields. Yeah.

It's what you've been searching for your entire life by the sounds of it. The way you light up when you talk about this, it's just like the answer I've got how these two worlds together that I wanted to bring out. And there it is, you know, and it is wonderful to find these. Anything that can help so many different in so many different areas. Because you're going up the tree, so to speak, literally in regards to stem cells. I mean, even with things like hyperbaric or looking at genetics or we're going a little bit further up and looking at where is the problems come from rather than the band aid on the bottom when you've got the disease, you know, which is the approach generally. So speaking in the. In the traditional, you know, in the conventional, I should say, medicine world is oh, you've got a headache, take a Nurofen, you know, oh, you've done this, put that on it or take this pill, rather than going, how is that interactive with that system? And it's much more complicated to do it. And it takes a lot more time to do that approach, but it is much more, you know, going further up. I like to think of it as a tree where you want to, you know, go back to the root cause for the want of a better description, rather than being the band aid, you know, in just dealing with the symptoms, but going to find out why.

The time will come that functional medicine, this whole new approach to medicine, is going to be the new standard. It just is going to take some time. But it's a grassroots movement because it's not the doctors who are trying to push this, it's the patients who really want it and need it. And I can't tell you how many people I've heard functional medicine, that a lot of people are realizing they're waking up, that the traditional route is not helping them very much. And a lot of functional medicine doctors actually were the people who either themselves got sick and couldn't get enough relief from conventional medicine or their family members. So in a sense, they're part of the grassroots, right? They were on the patient side and they're seeking something else. And they realize, oh, these other things actually work. So same thing with stem cells. So many doctors actually come to me saying, hey, I think I need to do stem cells because I got all these patients asking for me. They want to do it, so can you teach me how to do it? So the patients are the ones that's giving them the push.

Well, I hope you educate thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of doctors all around the planet so that we can get this fantastic information out there, do it in a safe environment, and, you know, that these tissue banks and things become more available. You know, I'm always frustrated because I live in New Zealand and we seem to be, you know, at the edge of the world, but not a great huge population and everything is like all these cool things we don't necessarily have here. And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, because I would love to know if there's one already in New Zealand. But what sort of things can we just go into briefly before we wrap it up? Like I read on your website, there's clinical research around spinal injuries, multiple sclerosis, motor neurons disease, ibs, kidney repair cause, collagen diabetes. Like, this is just such broad, broad areas. What are some of the research that you've seen that where you would say, like, yeah, this is like, you know, I'm working with people with motor neurons disease at the moment, so very interested in anything that you have in that realm. And yeah, what are some of the really interesting clinical research that you've seen recently come out with STE cells that can help different ailments?

There's so many areas. Right. You mentioned diabetes. So both type one and type two that they actually shown that the beta cells, you know, the actually getting regenerated and, you know, with endogenous, you know, the body producing its own insulin again. And, you know, I mean, it's from head to toe, you know, neurological conditions. I think it's a little bit. A little bit more difficult and a little bit more slower. But there's research on, you know, hemorrhagic stroke, ischemic stroke, and traumatic brain injuries, spinal cord injuries, and, you know, I think for, you know, Parkinson's, animal models. But unfortunately, I think there's still. It's still lacking when it comes to human studies. But for autoimmune diseases, there's. I think the most research have been done on autoimmune disease, diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, inflammatory bowel diseases like ulcerative colitis and crohn's disease and psoriasis and then things like migraines. Actually great evidence, tremendous evidence. And copd, lung injury, end stage renal disease, liver cirrhosis, and of course, musculoskeletal, you know, everything musculoskeletal. And there's, you know, research on autism, research on addiction, but addiction is more in the areas of animal research. But it's still very fascinating, these alcoholic rats, how they were, you know, stem cell treatment. I know they could shouldn't stop drinking. They love it and they are alcoholic. So when you give them stem cells acutely, it quickly decreases their alcohol intake, but at least 50%. And then if you put them into like a rehab situation because you give them free, they give them 73 days of 10% alcohol. And then I think, you know, how many days of 20%. And then they cut them off for 14 days. So it's like, you know, like a human's going to a rehab center, you completely cut off. And on day four, they either give them stem cells or give them control, you know, a placebo. The ones that got stem cells, what happened was that, you know, 10 days after they give them stem cells, right? Total 14 days of abstinence, they allow them free intake of alcohol for one hour. They record how much alcohol they drink. The rats that got stem cells drank, their drinking was decreased by 80 to 85%.

Wow.

They just not as interested. So the suspicion is that because it reduces brain inflammation. So that's a really cool one. And then there's, you know, research on anti aging, on longevity also in animals. The results has been pretty consistent. It increases lifespan for about 30%. And it's not just lifespan, but it's health span. They look younger, act younger, they just, you know, their brain is younger. And they dissected their muscle and their brains and looking at different neurotransmitters and growth factors and checked the waste products. So everything was restored to the younger state. So that's anti aging. But even things like glaucoma for the eyes or even hearing loss, there have been evidence of stem cells being helpful.

Wow, this is all mind blowing because it's just basically taking you back to your younger self before all the shit hit the fan, so to speak.

I don't know how many people know that we, we are running out of stem cells as we age. There's just no way around it, you know, you don't keep your stem cells forever. The fact that they are with you and the fact they go into battle for you, the more you mobilize them, the less they are because there are only so many generations they have. And when they fight the battles for you on your inflammation, there's an attrition rate. So when they come out of hibernation, when they are activated and they go fight your battle and they eventually die, you know they're not going to live forever. So if you get your own stem cells and put back into your body, it's the same thing. You're activating them, they will fight your battles and they die. So you could potentially in that sense just exhausted your stem cell supply. So that's one reason, you know, that I think is a disadvantage. You can't really do anti aging with your own stem cell cells because you're running out of it anyhow. And then you just activate it and then you just reduced it. So you just, you just reduce yourself more temporarily, getting better, but you're reducing your stem cell supply.

Wow.

Yeah. So when we were born, every 1 in 10,000 cells is an MSC, you know, this major type of signaling stem cell. And when you reach your teenage years, it becomes one in a hundred thousand. So from one in ten thousand to one in one hundred thousand, this is just getting to teenage years. When you get to your 40s, it becomes 1 in 400,000. When you get to your 80s, it becomes 1 in 2 million. So there's like a straight line decline. So that's why we wrinkle up. That's why we get white hair, that's why we get sick easier. We get chronic illnesses. Because your body can't keep up with the repair.

Yeah.

If you get sick, if you get injured, as long as you have plenty of stem cells that are vibrant, then you know you're going to fix it. But if you're running out of stem cells, that's a final source of regeneration. So you. But all the other things are important. I call stem cells the engine for regeneration and everything else we're doing like the hyperbaric, like the nutritional therapy, you know, light therapy, all these things are the fuel. Eventually it fuels the body, but it also fuels the engine. So the engine needs all, you know, all these important factors, but you still need the engine. If you don't have the engine, you're not going anywhere.

Oh God, how do I get some of this? Why can't we all just fly over and see you in five minutes? That would be fantastic. Are you aware. So on an international scene, I know you're in America, but are you aware of lots of these sorts of clinics opening up around the world now? Is there hope for us Kiwis?

Is there hope for us in countries that are a little bit more open? Countries like Costa Rica, Bahamas, Canada, Mexico, Colombia, they're all over there in the tropical area. But when it comes to. Yeah, places like New Zealand, Australia, Canada, I think they're very regulatory.

Slow thing. Is it because of regulation? Damn. Okay, so we're sort of reliant at the moment on, you know, just using things like skin for skin care and getting some benefits from it that way. But we, yeah, we're gonna, but this is what's coming down the track. And the more people ask for it, the more people are going to be pushing for it, the more we're likely to see it start to happen. And I am aware of one clinic up north that does the fat cell stem cell stuff, but not the. I don't know if we hit the tissue banks. I'm definitely going to go and find out. Where in New Zealand, Australia, can we get, can we get to this stuff?

And if you're interesting, let me know if you find one.

Oh, absolutely. You need to start a data of who is where, you know, because you've got enough jobs. I know, but is this also for parents who are listening to this who, you know, maybe about to have a child, something that they should be thinking about, like for their own future, for their own children's future as well, storing this tissue?

They certainly can. But okay, this is my sentiment. Yes, you can bank your own child's cells. And if the child has any conditions, you know, during childhood, it probably is very helpful to have these cells because they're younger, they're, they're powerful and it's identical to the, to the babies is great. You don't have. It doesn't have to be identical, frankly. That's why we're using other people's cells. But because they are so young, they're primitive and because they're meson kind animal stem cells, most of them, they are immune, evasive, so immune privileged. They don't get, you know, because they don't have surface markers that mark them as foreign. So, so, and then they work and they die. Right. Just like, you know, we take any cells out of the body, we activate them and put them back and they work and they die. So, so it's the same thing. Very few actually end up living your body. And if, even if it's they do. It's not a problem because even human cells can live in animals bodies, you know, from these research. But we, I don't know if you know, 60% of women research. I've shown 60% of women actually have Y chromosomes in their body.

I listened to one of your lectures on that and I was like, wow, really?

And I thought it was not on the children that they bore. Not as frightening. And people are so frightened. Other people's DNA in me, I have done IV stem cells on myself every three months. I don't know how many people's DNA in me, I welcome them. I was like, yes, become part of me. Yeah, it's okay. It's only a few cells. I mean compared to what I have, you know, trillions so. But I welcome it, you know, because they help me heal. I think it's, you know, people's fears are completely blown out of proportion as not based on science but. But anyhow. So I think the actually how like white.

White. So they've done it with women, haven't they? So tested that we have Y chromosomes, in other words male chromosome cells or whatever you call it in there for was it 20% of women or 60% of women have. Have these. And I thought it was from if they had bore a male child that they would have some of the children's DNA in them. But that's not the only. Yeah, that's. Yeah.

So basically that research was trying to figure out why 60%. They were trying to use statistics to account 60% they couldn't because they were thinking, oh, maybe it's from, you know, having male children or having male children who have, you know, went through a miscarriage, who the mother never knew. Maybe it's from male sibling that, you know, that got DNA mixed up with, you know, with the mother. When the mother and the male sibling that you know, they were. But the male sibling died, no one knew. So they were trying to figure out every potential possibility. And then finally they said okay, we can't account for all that. So the only explanation is through male female intercourse. That's how the Y DNA Y chromosomes actually got into the female body. So it just is part of the human experience anyhow. But I think you know, back to your question about mothers, whether or not they should bank their own babies. Court, first of all, if you're banking them for your own reasons, like for selfish reasons, then it makes no sense. First of all, your baby is 50% different from you, DNA wise. But also good luck in trying to get the Cells out for use for yourself because this belongs to the baby. I've had people, parents who are trying to get the cells out to use for themselves. They had a hell of a time because the tissue bank did not want to release it because they, this belongs to the child. Maybe so that's one thing. But some 10, 15 years down the line, the stem cell therapy is going to advance so much that you probably don't even need it. Maybe at that point we'll be able to take a cell from your body, bring it back to the embryonic state and then coax the cells into becoming so many different kinds of cells that we want the cells to be. So I just think, yeah, if you want to do it for your children, great, do it if you have the resources. But just know there are a lot of possibilities.

You don't have to even if you haven't done that. So you don't need to necessarily bank that for your child's future or whatever. Wow, there's just so much to think about and the implications of everything as well. Dr. Joy, you've been so generous with your time. I want to respect your time. Thank you so much. You're wonderful. Your work is amazing. Please keep this going and keep educating those doctors so that more of us get access to this incredible therapies, stem cell therapy. I'm excited. I hope I get to have some before I get too old.

I'm flying to Los Angeles. I have a lot of people flying from all over the world, all over the world.

So people can book in with you, come and see you in Los Angeles if that's within their realm of possible. That's absolutely fantastic. So we will put all the links down below. But just briefly, where can people find you?

So my clinic is called Uplift Longevity Centers. Uplift with a Y. So they can just look me up uplift center.com but if they want to listen to my lectures or you know, like my education, educational, you know, input, they can go on YouTube. I try to put out some videos and you know, discuss different aspects of stem cell therapy. So my YouTube channel just Joy Kong, MD. So just, you know, my name. And also they can, they want more information, they can go on my, you know, the academy I founded, the American Academy of Integrated Cell Therapy. So it's a aict.org they can go on academy, find some research articles and they're, you know, and some case studies. So there are a lot of case studies. You know, a lot of them are, you know, patients who I've treated some are, are patients who are, were treated by the doctors I've trained. So it's, it's, it's going to be very interesting for people to read those cases.

Heck, yeah. I'm just so excited for this, for this research. Thank you, Dr. Joy. I am so glad to have you on the show.

You're so welcome. It's been very, very nice to talk about wonderful things.

Fantastic. That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team@lisatarmity.com.