How To Heal The Body Without Medication | Dr. Leisa Grgula

So you've treated a lot of patients. Have you seen people's mentality affect their results?

For instance, a musculoskeletal condition like a shoulder issue or a knee issue, and the first thing out of his mouth is, nothing you can do with my shoulder, because it is what it is and it's going to be this way. He's already made his mind up. I'm not sure we're going to get the right result. Not to the level that maybe I would expect for that patient, because some people just have to be sick. They just have to have a condition. But I want that perfect patient to want to get better. I have patients who walk in and they start, look at the step I can take. Look at this. I can stand from a seated position. That's the best part for me. The letters and the testimonials and I know we all do it for social media now, but it's really in my heart.

Today on our podcast, I'm excited to welcome Dr. Lisa Gergola, a chiropractic physician with nearly three decades of experience helping patients heal without medications. Dr. Lisa earned her Doctor of Chiropractic degree from the National University of Health Sciences, and she's the owner of Accurate Care Medical Wellness center, an integrated clinic dedicated to providing proven alternatives to drugs and surgery. At the clinic, she leads a team of physicians who focus on regenerative therapies and personalized care that respects each patient's values and goals. Beyond her clinical work, Dr. Lisa is a seasoned TV host and economist for various outlets, excluding exploring important health topics. And welcome to the show. Dr. Lisa.

Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Yeah. So I'm so excited about our conversation because I know you have a wealth of knowledge helping patients using innovative and alternative methods to focus more on drug free recovery. Right. You do use medications in your practice, but a lot of it can be done without drugs. And so why would you choose that kind of approach?

A lot of it depends on what the patient wants because they've gone to their medical physicians, they've gone to practitioners who maybe have over medicated them and they've got side effects they're just done with. So they'll come to us just to try something else. And I listen to that. And another reason I like that we have both in our practice is that they don't have to hide anything from their medical practitioners. And that happens a lot more than I ever had known. So they won't tell them that they're receiving acupuncture, chiropractic stem cell therapy, sometimes you just don't know. But if it's all under one roof and they're getting their medical care and their alternative care, there's. There's no reason to hide it.

Right. Okay. I'm curious because I've been in the US for over 30 years and now, and I remember when I first came to the country how me just mentioning acupuncture because I came from China. Right. That's just part of how you IGN exist is that you embrace both Chinese medicine and Western medicine. So to me is a no brainer. You know, we know sometimes acupuncture and Chinese medicine works great and sometimes Western medicine works great. So I didn't have any prejudice when I came, but when I started mentioning Chinese medicine or acupuncture, I was in San Francisco. That's supposed to be more liberal and open place. Right. But people were looking at me like I'm just weird, you know, very strange out there. Right. But that has changed a lot. However, there are still prejudice that's existing. So what do you think are the common myths and misconceptions about alternative medicine?

First, that there's no science behind it and we have to try a lot harder. And even as a chiropractic physician, we have to try so much harder and work harder at science behind what we do. And we have to do that especially for insurance reimbursements, et cetera. And when it's with acupuncture, there is science behind acupuncture. Acupuncture has been around, as you know, since the Stone Age. So it wouldn't be around since the Stone Age if it wasn't working. And when people say to me, I don't believe in acupuncture, usually my answer is, it's not a religion, there's nothing to believe in, it's a science.

But what's interesting, the same people who say I don't believe in it, when they have intractable aches and pains and they nothing helped. And then they went to an acupuncturist, all of a sudden it's like a religion. They have a conversion and now they are a believer and they're telling everybody about it. Thank goodness.

I see that. Yeah, I do see that too. And I've seen it over the last 30 years. And I love what I do because I can turn the light bulb on for them. And when the bulb goes on and they get it, it's such a good feeling to me. And that's really why I'm a physician. I like it.

Yeah. So I do see, you know, part of the change in, in how we're looking at alternative medicine is that there are successes, is the successes that are driving this movement of acceptance. So if it doesn't work, then it's not going to be accepted, but it's shown over and over again. And I've, you know, had, you know, seen many people who said, oh, yeah, I'm a believer. I'm a believer in acupuncture in Chinese medicine. And of course, me personally, my own, My mother. So when someone says, I did a post about tcm, traditional Chinese medicine, and somebody commented on social media, said, I can't believe you're talking about Chinese medicine because it's pseudoscience. How can you, as a medical doctor promote it? And I just, I. I said, you are speaking from ignorance. It's just pure ignorance. You don't know the thousands and thousands of research papers that have been done on all these therapies and showing, even clinical studies, controlled clinical studies showing the benefits. And of course, I have my own mother that's incontrovertible. I. From my own mother who was diagnosed with multiple myeloma when she was 43 years old. So I was 13. I thought I was going to lose my mom, that she had maybe two years to live. And she lived in the hospital for six months, literally, among all these cancer patients, There were about 10 patients in a huge ward. And she was there for six months, six rounds of chemotherapy, and her veins were all blackened. And she was. She fainted multiple times during the chemotherapy. And then most of her, I guess, roommates, you know, in the ward, mates have. They walked in and then they were carried out on a stretcher dead. So she decided, this is not working. I'm miserable. It's been six months. I'm out of here. So she left. Where did she go? She went to a Chinese medicine doctor. And this doctor specialized in mutant health. So, you know, there are different specialties in Chinese medicine, too. So he looked at her, you know, know, with, you know, the tongue and paws and looking at her constitution and gave her a prescription of, you know, I don't know, 20 different herbs and probably animal parts and. And then me and my dad went to a Chinese medicine store and they, you know, put it. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It's a pharmacy. It's incredible. And so they put this concoction and. And, you know, put them in little parcels. So each little paper bag contains all the herbs you need to. To brew. Yeah, it's horrible. Smells horrible. Tastes incredible is the worst. But the Chinese medicine have the saying, you know, the best medicine is bitter. So they believe in this. Tasting horrible is probably really good for you. That's all she did. She drank this potion morning and night and then did some aerobics in the morning. That's it. One hour in the morning, went to the playground, did aerobic, aerobics, and then drank this horrible thing. Nothing else changed. And within six months, all her markers went back to normal. She went back to work and lived for another 32 beautiful years. So that's. And it's so shocking her progress because the doctor's like, how so? The doctor who's the chief doctor on the ward came to our house asking my mom, what did this Chinese medicine doctor give you? Because I need to bring this back to my ward to give it to my patients. So that's like an illustration of east west integration.

Right. The interesting thing that is, it's specific just for her. So it's not like that.

So he was still using Western medicine mentality, thinking, oh, this one brew is going to heal everybody. But everybody should get their own brew.

Yes. Yeah, I've done it. And it has done miracles for me. Miracles for me. And even with the accident, what kind of.

What kind of miracles has. You're talking about Chinese medicine?

Well, the herbs.

The herbs.

I've done herbs myself.

How did it help you before?

The most recent one was when I fell and I damaged my shoulder and tore everything. I had fractured three bones in my face and I had awful scarring and bruising. And obviously I was being watched by a maxillofacial surgeon to ensure that the bones weren't displaced and I would need surgery. And they did not displace. It was perfect. So I went to my Chinese herbalist and she read the tongue. She read. She took the pulse, everything, and I took the herbs. And the maxillofacial surgeon could not believe that he would call it runaway healing. And I would go in every two weeks and his staff would see. In the beginning, it was weekly. His staff would look at me and say, how in God's green earth did you heal so quickly? Swelling went down, the bruising went down that fast? Yeah, like it didn't happen. And I was going to post all of that on my website, but I think it was pretty graphic, so.

Wow. So at the time, did you also use stem cell therapy for. For healing of your face?

I had my stem cells. I did an IV push.

Okay.

And we did exosomes. And that was miraculous as well because that include in combination with PRP and ozone at that time. And an hour. And exactly an hour, I was at a red light on my way to that maxillofacial surgeon's checkup. It felt like my skin. When you go to get novocaine for the dentist and it starts coming back and it tingles. An hour later, I felt it. Oh, and I told him. And we talked about that for a little while. Very fast. Within an hour. I'm not saying that I was healed in an hour, but I could. Things are happening in 60 minutes after that.

I've heard that from my patients as well. Of course I have. I seen people swelling. I mean, you. That's visible, right? Swelling go down within 30 minutes of a stem cell infusion. And I remember the patient came in like she couldn't make a fist. She had rheumatoid arthritis. And during the infusion, that's really within 20 minutes or so after an infusion since she started. She made a fist and started crying. Because that hasn't happened for, you know, two months. So it can be very fast.

Yeah, I like it. And that's why I did it. And then when my patients see that story or hear the story and I talk about, I just have to be careful because we are not all the same. We don't heal the same, we don't respond the same. I'm a quick healer, quick responder. I'm very uninflamed.

You probably have improved or optimized your system to the point where your regeneration is always ready. A lot of people's regenerative potentials are stagnating because they put junk in their body. They're not moving their bodies, and things are just not ready to go.

It takes time. And they say also exercise. And because I'm an amateur bodybuilder, when you tear and build and tear and build, the body gets that message, oh, it's time to build this back. And that's what one physician had told me in the field. So that could be it as well. I don't know. We still get great results in the office. I just have to be careful not to promise the results that I get. And as quickly as I get them. And some of my patients do. Yeah, they really do. And a lot of it, we were talking before filming. It's what's between the ears.

Right? Right.

If you want it to happen and you're willing to work with it. It's an innate process.

So you've treated a lot of. Have you seen people's Mentality affect their results.

Absolutely.

Okay.

And as we were sharing earlier, just for instance, a musculoskeletal condition like a shoulder issue or a knee issue, and someone. Spouses in my reception area, and maybe the wife will say, now, I want you to see my husband and take care of him and fix that shoulder. And the first thing out of his mouth is, nothing you can do with my shoulder. Because there's nothing. It's, it's, it's, it is what it is. And it's going to be this way. He's already made his mind up.

Yeah.

So if I were to do anything regenerative, any stem cells, ozone, even if I did acupuncture, I'm not sure we're going to get the right results. We'll get results, but not to the level that maybe I would expect for that patient. And are they even expecting results? Because some people just have to be sick. They just have to have a condition, and that's okay. That's who they are. But I want to. That perfect patient to want to get better, to want to respond. And they just don't have time for the trips to the doctor, the trips to the pharmacy, the pills, the side effects, the downtime after the surgery, et cetera. That is, you know, those. The patients who don't want to deal with it is a perfect patient for me. So it's absolutely their attitude.

So you've seen, on average, people who have a positive attitude, believing that they're going to get helped, they have better results comparing to people with negative attitudes.

And they're so excited about it. I have patients who walk in and they start wearing their arms around and walking real quickly. Look at the step I can take. Look at this. I can sit up from a seated stand, from a seated position. And my other patients, they'll jokingly say, do you pay them to say this while we're sitting here?

Really?

It's happened. I have a few of them. And so then, of course, we'll get the camera, the phone out and start to video because they are so excited. That's the best part for me because as a physician, you know, sometimes we need to hear that. We need to know and see. We can know their progress objectively. But when subjectively, someone just is over the moon and feeling so good. You see, they're losing weight, their skin is clearing up. They feel terrific. And their personalities are so much more open. It's. It's the light bulb going on. I love that. So. Right, right. That's one of my favorite Parts of practice.

That's true. Yeah. I think that's what keeps up go going. Right. The inspiration and the excitement in our patients.

Yeah. The letters and the testimonials. And I know we all do it for social media and for promotion of our practice, but it's really in my heart. And there are days that I'll just see that and say, oh, I forgot how great she did on that. And I have patients who stay in touch with me. One woman is actually traveling around the world right now and put me onto one of those social media profiles where I can follow her and she can share her results, and not her results, but her activities with me. And that's someone who's brought me into her life because I gave her the ability to use her hands again in her knee and what she can do with her family. These are really cool things that we do now.

Right. And you also share your own healing story. Right. So one of the remarkable stories is your. The healing of your shoulder. The reason is remarkable was because you actually completely tore your tendons.

Supraspinatus and infraspinatus in my shoulder.

Right.

And the subscapula with retraction, complete tear. And then the subscapularis underneath was partial tear. Those are three of the four rotator cuff muscles.

Okay. So right away, after injury, you got your mri, right?

Correct.

That's what it showed, yes. And then what did you do?

We. Well, first thing I did was they wanted to. The physician I had counseled or consulted with wanted me to go to Chicago from Scottsdale, go to Chicago Rush Presbyterian Hospital and have it replaced by a specialist who specializes in difficult cases because I'm also a chiropractic physician and I need my shoulder. So it wasn't an option for me to not use this. And it was a. It was an option to replace the tendon, to replace the whole shoulder. They wanted to. Shoulder replacement. Yeah. This. The whole thing. My MRI went on for two pages.

That's a big.

Those were just the beginning. Those are number one, two, three.

They want to take your body part out.

Yeah. That's an amputation. Then. Patients don't really understand that they, you know, you can't get a shoulder replace. Try it out for six months and put the old parts back in it just. And they don't think that through. You know, they're sawing bone and it's gone. That thing is gone, or those bones are gone. So the joint. So when they put that new shoulder in. I work with people after they've had surgeries. I've seen them in the gym. I've seen them in my practice. I've seen some go very well, and I've seen some go not well at all. Failed surgeries and the downtime and all the things that they have to go through. And when I saw that in my mind, immediately, I said, gosh, I don't want to do this. We do stem cells here. I want to do it. So I consulted a friend of mine, a colleague who's a researcher, and I asked him, I said, please be honest with me. Am I wasting my money by purchasing product, having it done, and then still having to go to Chicago? And he says, no, try it. If for some reason it doesn't and you're not comfortable with the results, then go to Chicago and have it done. Exactly. Use it as plan B. Yeah. And I did that. I never went to Chicago. I had my first injection about maybe four weeks or three weeks. I'm sorry. About three weeks after the injury, and I'd fallen running is what happened. And I hit the curb. It was horrible. And I broke my sinus, my orbital and my temporal bones. It was pretty damaging. Yeah, it was. It was rough. So. But I didn't have any retinal tears. Luckily, the universe was watching out for me, so I did more than I would have for the average patient, because this was not an average condition or situation. So I initially went in with Wharton's jelly and exosomes. And then.

So you did an IV infusion?

I did an IV first of the exosomes. That's right. Okay. And I did that on the same day as an ozone injection. And I never did injection into the face, ever.

But you inject into the shoulder.

You inject in the shoulder. Okay. But that first IV was the initial thing that we did. And I did an iv. I didn't, but my nurse practitioner did.

That's the one. You felt the tingling?

Yeah, within 60 minutes. And I was sharing that. I was at a red light on my way to the maxillofacial surgeon. He was watching me weekly in the beginning, and then every two weeks to watch those bones to make sure I didn't need some sort of facial surgery. And I did not. So that happened. I got the tingling. And I tell patients that it's like when you go to the dentist and you've had Novocaine and it starts to come back and you have that tingle. That happened exactly an hour after my iv.

Waking up a nerve ending.

Yeah. Was beautiful. And I was so excited. I didn't realize how numb everything was until things started coming back. Because I had other worries. I had the face to worry about the shoulder, to worry about my patience, my practice. Though there were a lot of things going on. So an hour after those exosomes went in, it was just miraculous because it just brought that inflammation down so quickly.

Did you do the ozone at the same time? Yes, I did iv. Okay, so you put some ozone in your shoulder.

Well, our protocol is to do stem cells first. We're going to say stem cells, the regenerative. Then we do three separate injections. If it's a shoulder, knee, whatever, we're treating of ozone and prp, the patient's prp. And then in two months, we kind of ride that healing wave. We do the stem cells again and exosomes. Okay, so it's a total of five injections over two month period. And it made me.

So that's what you did.

I did that. So I did it a little quicker because I had to. I didn't have time. And I. I had the time. I had the effort, the energy, the brain and have time for this to be down. So I had not gone back to upper body gym until. See, my first injections were in early June, late May, and then to early June. The second round of stem cells was in July. And normally I would have waited the two months, but my body told me I was ready. I wanted more, and I said, okay, let's go in more. I ordered them, got them.

So you did the ozone first and. But you also did stem cells.

Prp stem cells first. I'm sorry, stem cells. And with the EX in PRP and ozone 3. And then my body wanted to not wait the two months. And I went in with the second injection of Wharton's jelly and exosomes.

Okay, so the first time you just use a PRP injection. Second time you use stem cells.

Well, stem cells, PRP and then stem cells again. Oh, that's what we do. All right. And we separate them. I never put PRP with the stem cells. It's at a different time.

That's just how you do a different approach than mine.

But so when I wanted that and I felt good. But then in August and every once in a while I'd have the nurse practitioner put the ozone in. I didn had some prp. It wasn't as necessary in my mind because I was following my intuition on this one and what I needed. So by August, I did the third stem cell and exosome injection. And after that my body said it was Over. I didn't have anymore.

Okay, so just within two months, you did three injections.

Exactly. It was three months, and it was three instead of two.

Did you. When did you notice a difference?

I was back in the gym doing upper body by August. I'm sorry, late August. And I was swinging a golf club.

So within two months.

Yeah, of June. Within two months of. Within three months of the injury.

Okay.

I was swinging a golf club, and they said that if I didn't get the shoulder replaced, I'd never swing a golf club again. How's that?

Wow. Well, I would have advised you not to swing the golf club.

Yes, but it felt good. I mean, I was. That's.

That, you know, that's a common mistake people make. They feel so much better. But the tissue is still healing is not the final product.

And I know that, but.

But you couldn't help yourself.

Couldn't. And I was. I mean, I was putting and chipping back on labor day, but by September 15, I said, let's try this. And there was no pain. And that is always not indicative of full healing. And we know. So the average patient. Don't listen to that. Do not listen to your doctor. But I just had that innate feeling to do it. Now, I wasn't playing 18 holes. I wasn't playing every week. It. But the fact that I could do it was miraculous. And then over time, over the months, I worked back into playing again. And by the following March, I did another. Because the researcher, my colleague, he said, let's do the mri. He was chomping at the bit. Couldn't believe we got the results. We did, and then we got that mri, and it showed growth and it showed change. It was wonderful. And, yeah, that. So then in a year later, I.

Just want to comment on the speed of healing when it comes to stem cells, because one of our doctors actually got amazing help from stem cells and exosome infusion after a very traumatic surgery of the face and the oral cavity. When she was extubated, her. Her. Her throat was kind of filleted, you know, the. The trachea. So they ended up, you know, telling her that she probably wouldn't be able to swallow any solid food for five weeks. But after stem cells and exomes, within. Within seven days, she was swallowing and eating normally. I mean, the. The speed. Right. That's astounding.

So inflammation that comes down and the signaling to the body to make the changes necessary is expedited. And this is the one thing, too, I wanted to mention today, is that patients Will come in and say, oh, I already had the surgery. It's too late. I don't need stem cells. I've already had the surgery. Whether it's shoulder, knee, you know, musculoskeletal, whatever it might be. That's not true. Because we can do it as, you know, as an adjunct to their healing. And that is miraculous. It's just. It speeds things up and it makes things go properly and makes it happen. Exactly.

The pre and post post surgery stem cell or whatever regenerative medicine therapies is just so powerful because I see it, it's common, and I'm sure you see that too. It shortens the healing time to about one third, or at least half of what it would usually take, but to one third of what we usually take. That's a common thing. It just speed it up so much. Not only that, your surgical site is going to be better. The scarring. Right. Gonna be less scarring, better tissue formation. Yeah. So everything is going to be more complete. The healing is. You're gonna just have better formed tissue. Yeah. So it's not.

Just don't discount it. If you've already had surgery, it's okay. Yeah. And we've worked with failed surgeries on shoulders. Have a wonderful patient story. He'd gotten it done about September one year, and he got the ankle on the bicep tendon. And the surgeon said, you'll get 95% of your motion back was like 5%. We actually had two of those. But this guy in particular has done so many videos because I run into him at some car events and he's waving his shoulder. So we just grabbed the phone real quickly. But he's doing so much better. And now he's a year out after getting the cells. He's playing drums again. And this guy's about 68 years old, I think, and just so active and feels so much better. And the initial surgeon wouldn't even do another mri. After nine months after he'd gotten surgery, he still had same level of pain and same decrease of range of motion he did before the surgery. He was so frustrated. Then he came to me, he knew me outside the practice. He said, please, can you help? We did it. And. And he's over the moon with it now. So it can go for failed surgeries because that would constitute a fail. Yes, it failed. Surgery doesn't have to mean that it was bad and wrong and something was a mistake by the surgeon. It's just that the outcome didn't come out as. As promised or as expected, or maybe to not the same level or something else also could go wrong. And then you get another condition altogether that you never had going into the surgery. But what I'm seeing more is just surgeries that just didn't get the same results or the results that the patient wanted, and neither did the surgeon. So rather than going in and doing another surgery, which is usually the option from the surgeon, these patients now have another alternative to come to me.

Thank God, then get this done. Nice to know.

And then they're. They're still working and doing the things that they love to do. So they get their lives back that way.

Right. And there's no downtime, and that's incredible about it. But I want to come, come back to your shoulder. So torn tendons complete, complete with retraction, with which, if you ask any orthopedic surgeon, they will say absolutely. If it's retracted, there's no chance that those two ends are coming together. But what happened to yours?

I don't know. And it's, it's not showing up in the MRI objectively, but it did in the seven month one, and it showed the growth and the changes and when.

So there's part partial reattachment.

Yes, there you'll. You'll see it in the report. And it's just growth, growth of the tendons so that they could see that it was this, a certain measurement, you know how they measure it was the same radiologist who read all three films as well. So that was nice. And she's an expert and I've known her since 2007. So it was good to have that continuity. And I even went to the third MRI at the same facility as I did the first one. So we got through everything that way and everything was more continuous anyhow. So it's not that it says you have a perfect shoulder again, objectively, which is what the report says, but what I know subjectively, I'm doing things, which is a great thing with, with stem cells. It's fixing things that were, that were broken or torn, damaged way before my accident. So, for instance, I always bring up dips in the gym, in the dip machine. And I haven't been able to do those since 2018 because I have a degenerative shoulder. I'm a chirop. And there's an old saying, it's not if we get bad shoulders and we have to lose our practice or our practicing, it's when. And in the beginning, when I graduated 30 years ago, there was only one company who would write Our disability insurance because of our shoulders. So we have bad shoulders. And then you put bodybuilding on top of that, we have a problem. So my MRI reports are all two pages long. We're just sharing the top four things out of about maybe 11. So we don't worry about number five after. We're looking at number one, two, three, and four from my accident. So I. I'm able to do dips. And. And I had a trainer in the gym. Look at me. What are you doing? And this was last December. And I said, dips. He said, we haven't done those. And we did the math. 2018. So it's fixing old stuff. Yeah. And that's what I'm loving. So when the patient comes in and they're pointing to that bicep tendon here, sometimes the injector will actually the physician or the nurse practitioner will pepper leftover with PRP or ozone if there are leftover product with stem cells. Not usually, but they'll put it somewhere else. And. And by the guide of the mri. By the guide of the patient. Subjective. Subjective findings, yes. And it's fixing and signaling the body to fix better things that they need as well. That's the coolest part.

Yeah. So did your MRI reading became shorter, become shorter?

Well, the old stuff. Well, no, because she mentioned everything she had to say what was the same, which was not. Yes, she tracked everything. Everything but. But yes.

As far as subjective improvement.

Yes.

All of them.

Improvement.

Yeah.

The fifth, the third one, not as much. Believe it's. It was strange seven months after it showed more of the. Of the improvement on the MRI than it did the. Actually the year after.

Right.

So it's stabilized later.

So basically the improvement. Stabilized and whatever. The new tissue that's formed has gotten so strong that the body believes the healing is. Is done. Right. There was. They didn't have to reattach more of the tissue. So functionally, you actually felt stronger a year after comparing to seven months after. Right.

Stronger than before the accident.

Right.

And that's what's so unique. So it's my subjective how I feel. And granted, I haven't trained as heavy because it was almost a year of not doing the same, lifting the same weights. My weights are back to where they were. There were a couple of moves that I'll do or certain activities that just. They're shut off. And I don't know why that is like with cable crossovers. So I'm having to build that back up a little more. Things are surprising me, but that and my. How I practice and how I adjust and we don't do really a high velocity, low impact. I do more of a decompression and pumping of the table and I had to go to the left side of the table from the right and do that after the injury. I'm back to how I was practicing before.

And you mentioned the shoulder that got injured now is doing better than the one that never got injured. That's pretty amazing.

I didn't realize how bad this one was until now. I know how wonderful this one is. So if I'm going to pick up something heavy, if I have to lift something up over into a shelf, I'm using the right shoulder.

Yeah.

And I like that. But I'm not stupid with it. And I don't press too much. But here's something that my patients also share with me. And I had a gentleman come in. I think it was Wednesday or Thursday, probably Wednesday. And he said he's gotten both shoulders, both knees done because more he gets, more he wants. His mom's come in, his mom's friend has come in. They're. They're great referring patients. And he said he fell the other day and he had some little gash on his head. He does doors, he installs doors, he repairs large doors. My doors, my acupuncture rooms are custom 450 pound doors. And this is what this guy does. And he says he has to get his side on the floor. He was unable to do that before the stem cells we put in and now he can. And he's one comes in waving the shoulders around video. And he said the one thing that he loves to hear, and this is what I do to loves to feel is that when you do re injure something, it used to take maybe. Oh no, what have I done? This is two weeks to get better. I've got a nurse and I've got to treat it, I've got to massage it, whatever. Then you find after the stem cells, I know myself I got a little nervous thinking I re something. I tore it off again and it was an hour and then I got better. Now it's 10 minutes and now I got it. And that's what Dan said. He said I got up off that floor and he says in a day it was like it never happened. Wow. He said that never would have been. He said I wouldn't have probably been able to work for over a week or two.

See, he went back to closer to how he was as a kid because we injure ourselves all the time as little kids. Yeah, the crazy things we. We've done. Right. I jumped off high fences and, you know, fall off trees, bounce back.

Like Rubbermaid.

Exactly. So that's what we're trying to give to patients is the awakened potentials because we've got these new young cells that remembers how to do this.

Yeah, that's a great way of putting it, because I never put the connection of being like a child again.

Yeah, yeah.

The first thing, and I will share with patients and people out there is that it's just our human nature to think Western medicine. They'll ask me, when is this going to wear off? Off. When is it gonna stop? Because you took that pill and it wore off. You got a steroid injection and it wore off.

Yes.

This is different. And when you do these little re injuries and they just heal so quickly and they don't hurt 10 minutes later, I can now take a breath. I was trying to put something back on my hot tub with my landscaper one day, and I tweaked my shoulder. Oh, no, what have I done? Lisa, get over it. I get over it, and it felt a little Tweaky for maybe 10 minutes and it was gone. So I now accept it myself because I'm still a patient. So that's the big change, that it's not a shot that you get that's going to go away.

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. I tell people, hey, if you don't enter your shoulder again, you're done, you're fixed. However, you will be aging. Right. We're all going through the aging process. No one so far has escaped death, so. So why are we dying? Because the system are all shutting down, down. So if you want to slow down that process, then you may want to do some upkeep. And stem cell therapy has been shown to revert your body back to a younger state. And in animal studies, extending lifespan by about 30% consistently in rats and mice, not just extending their lifespan, but health span. They look better, better fur.

They.

Their capabilities of being running around is better. And their. Their mental capabilities, perfect placebo.

They don't even know what to expect.

Yeah, exactly. And then when they actually dissected the. The brain and muscles of these animals, they showed that everything. All the markers of aging, that everything that's supposed to be going either down or going up in the markers was reverted to the younger levels. So that's objective evidence that on the cellular level, in the tissue itself, that these are younger tissue. So it's just powerful. Yeah. So we were just bringing it back to the younger tissue level.

Yeah, I see it, I see it in their face, I see it in their eyes. Not necessarily that their age is looking younger, but there's a vivre. Their joy is younger.

Yeah.

You know when a patient comes in and feels sorry because they're old and they're in pain and I'm so old. I don't like to hear that. We don't allow that in our office. And then to have, have that type of a patient turn around and feel so young and, and really have a different attitude. Yeah, it's nice.

Yeah. And I want to mention about the MRI reading because it really illustrate a really good point because a lot of people are over reliant on Mr. Readings, including the doctors. But you don't treat imaging. Right. You treat the patient. So the fact that your MRI. So you did two Mr. Readings things after your stem cell treatment. So the first one showed great improvement. Right. But then it was not fully healed. But the second one after treatment wasn't that different from the first one. But subjectively you were actually doing better. You were, you feel more complete healing. So how do you explain to patients when the imaging is not showing that much difference but boy, you feel great.

Exactly what you said. We don't treat, treat the mri. We treat the patient. Listen to the patient. Surgeons out there listen to the patient. Because there would have been many surgeons who would have even at that point said let's replace the shoulder. I'm sure they would have.

Wow.

Because even though I was doing well and I felt well and I could, you could see it in the gym, you could see it on paper, so to speak. Not on paper, but you know, in life. But didn't see it on paper. Don't be so attached to the imaging. And the radiologist told me that. You have just told me that. I know that as a physician to just step away from a minute and realize what is my lifestyle, what is my life, what am I doing and what am I able to do now? And what am, what am I willing to give up? Surgery can go wrong. Not every day on every patient and every surgeon, but every day there's someone going wrong. But what if, what if people can die on the table? You may never use your shoulder again. These are side effects that are all those pages that you sign. It's right there and those are the informed consent. If you really read those, it's there and that's real. So are you willing to do that when you're shoulder. Look at mine. It was fine. Why would I Put myself through that and open myself up to that. So try to trust yourself. Try to trust your healing. Trust the stem cell process. Process, yeah. That's what we're doing. Yeah.

And there's one study I want people to, to be aware of because it's such an elegant study, because these are for people who had taken a lot of steroid and they had bilateral knee deterioration. So then what do they do? They split the patient in half. So one knee, they did the surgery.

Okay.

Knee replacement. The other knee, they gave a stem cell injection. So now you have the same patient, patient, half his stem cells, half his knee surgery. So that's 30 knees. So 30 patients, that means 30 knees that got surgery and 30 knees got stem cell injections. So out of the 30 knees that got surgery, six of them ended up having to have revision surgery. And you know when you have to go back in to revise it, that means things didn't go well. Right. They have to make it better to cut the cut again. But out of the 30 knees that got stem cell injections, only one actually needed surgery in the end. This is after years. Yeah. So that just gives you. Shows you out of 30 knees that actually got cut and, and got a new part. Right. Got amputated. In a sense, it didn't really have to happen because you could have saved. You didn't have to change the whole.

But in that surgeon's office, it did have to happen. And that's why I practice alternative medicine, because I want to give them an alternative view. And patients will come in and say, I talked to my surgeon and he or she said, stem cells are not going to help me. Stem cells won't work. I have been a chiropractic physician for 30 years. This is my life. People will come to me and say, excuse me, my medical doctor says chiropractic isn't good for me. Or I don't need this care, this treatment, treatment plan you put me on. I need surgery, medication, injections, not stem cells, but steroids, etc, And I have been trained to tell them, when you get a second opinion, go to another specialist of that specialty. So you, if you're looking for an eye surgery, you're not going to go to a podiatrist for a second opinion. You're going to go to another eye surgeon. So please go to another stem cell facility, an integrated place, someplace that does regenerative medicine and let them tell you yes or no. If that's a second opinion, the surgeon probably isn't as well versed. The surgeon probably doesn't practice regenerative medicine and stem cells and that's not their specialty. No more than I will tell you if you have to have a surgery. I will give you my opinion as a chiropractic physician who saves people from surgery every day. But ultimately it's that surgeon's decision and your decision as to where you want to go. Go. But just go to another physician who does this for a living and has for a while. Right. That just give yourself. Yourself the, the ability to make your own decision.

Yeah. So in your practice, what kind of treatments have you seen that makes the biggest difference for patients? What are your go to?

Well, first stem cells or just chiropractic and acupuncture?

All the different, just the, all the.

Modalities that you're using, I would say say right off the bat, as a chiropractic physician, I do Cox technique and I'm one of only. I think right now there are three in the state of Arizona. The only one for 30 years. And what we're able to do with a pumping of the table, not the typical high velocity, high or low impact ballistic adjustment. I can do those. I've been trained in them. This is totally different, very scientific. It decreases intradiscal pressure. So we want to release the pressure that's in there and, and relax that patient. So we want to be able to decompress because they've been to, they've been compressed and we're able to bring that disc matter, actually the gel back into the disc. And that's huge. I save people from surgery all the time and I work on failed surgeries. So chiropractically, that's huge for me. It's just after 30 years, I'm finding my shift in practice to go more toward the regenerative and some of the other things with my acupuncture, also with psoriasis, migraines, what we're able to do with that.

So just hold on one sec. So you, you were, were you kind of decompressing the spine? That there's a machine. Are you.

It's not holding the table. And so on my website, on the home page, there's me doing a video of me doing it. So your patient is prone and we contact. I will contact. The spine is processed, the little bumpy parts of the spine for the people watching. And I, I hold that and the table. It only takes 60 millimeters of mercury to decompress a T disc. So we don't have to bring this table all the way to the floor. It is not painful in most cases. It's very comfortable. And it's nothing you can do in yoga or stretching or with regular chiropractic. So we're opening up that joint and we're actually. And I didn't know this 30 years ago when I graduated, but it's now been federally researched. Federally. The study's been done and it's a huge study. And even the author of the study said it actually sucks the disc back in. Use that word. And that's phenomenal. And I had one patient who actually got another mri. We usually don't because we go over subjective findings. But she was 71 and we decompress. She had a bulge of L5s. One same radiologist read it a year later, the bulge was gone. And that would not have happened on its own. This is a degenerative condition. Right.

So which, why it was, why I think the spine is particularly challenging because the physical aspects, because if you have misalignment or this compression that sometimes is very hard for it to release. Right. You have to do something that's mechanical. You have to, you know, respect. There's physics involved.

Yeah, there. Lots of physics with this. And, and it's intuitive. So I know what I'm doing as far as feeling the surrounding tissue on you versus someone else and someone who's larger. Someone, someone who's a sports professional athlete, professional bodybuilders, they're all different. And so we have to know the body. We have to have an mri. And then when I see the changes and I feel. The patient feels that, it feels great. So that's been for 30 years.

And you said there are only three providers in Arizona. That's why only three.

Well, it's hard to do. It's not something you take a weekend seminar. There are three parts of it. You have to usually go to different parts of the country. It's not on a webinar. And the tables are very expensive. They started around $20,000 now. So why would you not just use a $400 bench when you have to do that? You know, they. It's a different lifestyle actually, even for me. So I have my tables. I even have special people who have to work on those tables. It's not easy. And one of the repair guys calls them the Ferrari chiropractic tables because they're really kind of high ended. But the patients respond well. And I don't think I've ever had someone not like the treatment.

So that's what I do. Amazing. Are there. What are you Other favorite therapies?

Well, of course acupuncture, as I said, that is such a, almost like a silent healer because it doesn't feel like there's much going on and patients don't understand. Why are you doing this in my ear when my problem's over there? You know, they don't understand all of it.

But how do you explain that?

Well, meridians and there's just specific points and this is going to be for your chi or energy flow and they get over, over it sometimes some are more painful, as you know, and that means that's the point we really need, you know, and they over time because I don't just do a one and done. So they usually get a course of care and after a few visits they'll get it. I even have one patient, she's 88. She's been coming to me probably seven or eight years now. And she'll say, I'm not sure this is working. But I keep getting it. Of course it's working. She's walking without a cane, she's doing this, she's doing that. You know, whatever we do do, she's get more energy, she's not napping as often. And so she's almost afraid to, to admit it because on her medical doctor side, because she doesn't get her medical done in my practice, maybe she's hearing other things from other, you know, other practitioners, I don't know. But she knows it's working deep down and that's all that matters.

So yeah, the meridians are so interesting. I think they were. Yeah. Of course the Western science is trying to dissect his say, where's the energy channel? I think that they're, they're realizing that there are flow of, of energies that are not anatomically doesn't go along with anatomical structures. However it's there. And what I heard how the origins of these meridians came about was in ancient times people meditate, right? People, you know, in a lot of traditional cultures, they go inward trying to understand the physical world. What, what is the, this, where are we at?

Because they can't see it, touch it.

Then they go inside, they use their mind's eye. I mean this is all, you know, woo, woo, right. But one day I believe medicine and spirituality will merge and we'll realize it.

Is one and all Western medicine, because Eastern's already there pretty much.

That's true. Yeah. One day it's all going to merge. We're going to find language, you know, between. Because Western medicine, the problem is it doesn't have language for spirituality. It doesn't know how to explain it. So it can't verify it. It doesn't, it doesn't know quite how to do it. And they're beginning to, to figure out. But it's. It's maybe a different language. You may require to update your, your instrument or your, your language. So right now it's. It's really hard to merge the two. But in ancient times, when they go inward, they literally see with their mind's eye of these energy channels. So the ancient Chinese have seen it. So if they say so, there's a saying, seeing is believing. So if you see in your mind's eye, clearly staring in your face of all these energy channels, these meridians, and they said it's there. I. I saw it. And that's how they, you know, started, I guess, utilizing those channels. And you were telling me in the beginning they were using blunt objects, objects.

In the Stone Age, and then evolve. Acupuncture has evolved throughout the ages.

So they were trying to press on.

The acupuncture points were working and things would improve and function improve.

It's so deep in Chinese cult. Like, if you have nausea. So there's a point that you press. Or if you are, I think, yeah, pregnancy nausea. I mean, that's very common. You just press on this particular point on your hand, that nausea goes away. And I've tried it. I mean, not from pregnancy, but just from nausea. Amazing.

Works really well for seasickness.

Yeah.

When you get those little bracelets, that's acupuncture point.

Yeah, yeah. And even when we were in high school, I remember having a Chinese medicine doctor or just practitioner who was just coming in and showing us all these points along the years. Right. So your ears, your hands, your feet. Has all the spots control all your organs. If you find the spot is connected to all your organs. So he was telling us what to press to help with our eyesight. And I mean, just, it's part of, you know, and it works because people see real results. So when people say it's pseudo signs. Well, how do you contradict real results? Do you. You just bury your head in the sand saying, well, it doesn't exist. When it does exist, the better attitude is to say, oh, my God, how can that happen? What do we not know? How can we try to explain this? Yeah. So you don't just deny reality. And that's what happens to a lot of doctors. They would rather just deny saying, no, it's not real. Why don't you change Your attitude and, and have some curiosity. Let's figure out why, why, why this could happen. So don't just say, oh, that's enough one. Because I've seen that and it's really, really disheartening because doctors, these are the healers, these are people's guides to health. Right. And if you close off your mind and then you become a stuffy, know it all. Yeah. Arrogant. Yeah. Then you can't guide people. Then you, you could be leading them wrong down the wrong path. For example, I've seen the results of stem cell therapy, this intranasal treatment for, for dementia. And literally within a few months, I think it was three, four months period a person. Because in, in neurology or psychiatry, one way of testing their mental capacity is to draw a clock. So you draw the clock, you put your, you know, the, the different hours and put a needle. Usually you ask patients to draw. So I saw the before clock that the patient, demented patient, it was barely, you know, it was not even round. It was strange shape and you can't see and all the, the hours are like scooched to one side and the needle, you can't tell. It's a just terrible clock. Within a few months after the stem cell treatment, now we got pretty round clock now with the hours are in the right place and it's wonderful.

You can tell right there.

Yeah. So when I showed it to the psychiatrist who works in the famous clinic for brain health, and I said, look at this amazing thing that this is what you can introduce to your patients if you do stem cell treatment, there's a chance for these severely demented patients to come back in their mental capacity. He looked at the clock and his comment was, oh, yeah, but that's n of 1. So n is the number to treat. Right. So he's the skew of not looking further is that, oh, this is just one case. But to me, the first time I heard about how stem cells were helping this autistic kid, my response was, what, my goodness, how were you able to do that? How can you put some stem cells into this autistic person's veins? And then he's making all these improvements where I can't after years of therapy with, with this autistic kid, what do you know that I don't know? What do these cells do that previously I haven't been able to tap into that is the right response as a guide for people's health.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that just unfortunately, I see that a lot. And, and you as a chiropractic physician, you probably have faced prejudice. Oh, my goodness. One of the chiropractic doctor I've interviewed, actually here is Dr. Ryan Manning. And, you know, we've had, you know, posts of him talking about the chiropractic care. I could not believe the kind of negative comments that were surfacing. I said, what. Where did this come from? How are people? Why is there such animosity? I. Yeah, so I can't imagine you trying to provide care and how much negativity that you had to deal with.

I have, and like I said, over 30 years, and I still do today. They're still out there. And. And I think I saw that podcast and he was explaining how chiropractic, the actual industry had gone to the. To. They take. They took the AMA to court, and we won. And so no medical doctor can ever say chiropractic is not. Not indicated. Unless, of course, it's a fracture or there really is a contraindication. But you cannot tell a patient, do not go to a chiropractor. So that's. That's. That's really lost. So it is what it is. It is still out there. Not as prevalent as it had been over the years, but now I see it with regenerative medicine.

Yeah.

So I just shifted all of my focus to. I understand that. I know that there are people out there who are always not going to believe in something. And the reason I took the oath to be a physician was to keep healthy people healthy and to give them an alternative. And my article that I write in the newspaper is my health column, the other side of your health story. So if a patient comes in and they have a shoulder problem, they've had an accident, they had the MRI that I had, and they say the surgeon wants me to get surgery. I don't want that. I've had older women say they've been in a doctor's office, usually a surgeon's office. Surgeon closes the chart and says, there's nothing I can do, only surgery. The woman or the man, whomever will say, I don't want surgery. There's nothing. And they walk out of the room, and the patient's left crying. What are they going to do? Where are they going to go? So I give them another side, whether I'm writing about it in the paper. They're coming into my office. We're in my consult room. We. I show them. I do this similar situation, like with chiropractic, with informative video information. I have models of the joints. Explain what we're going to do other testimonial patients sharing. They can even call my patients patients, or they'll call them and share their story. And it's a similar situation. So I give them the other side. Then it's up to the patient to make up their mind. They may walk out and say, you know what? I think the surgery will be okay. Or 99.9% of the time, pretty much a hundred, they'll say, I want to try this. So I've given them an alternative. That's all. But they make up their mind. I don't make them do it. I don't force them into any decisions and let people think for themselves. And it's been a really exciting career because now with stem cells, it is exciting and it is new.

And how long have you been using stem cells in your practice?

About 18 years. I'm sorry, 18, Tony? About eight years now.

Eight years.

Okay, eight years.

Yeah. And what are some of the cases that stand out in your mind that. That you were even surprised by the results?

Another gentleman who. Who like my shoulder, bilateral shoulders, both of them were just about like my shoulder. And I looked, I said, he was 78 years old.

Oh, wow.

He wanted to take. He's on my website for testimonial. He wanted to have one more. He was a hunter. He wanted to go elk hunting. And this is my last hunt. He said, this is it. And both shoulders were so bad. Oh, my goodness. Not that he had more forms to fill out, but we really had a heart to heart. His wife came into the room and I said, said, I'm not going to make promises. Not that we promise anything, but this is going to be a difficult case. You're probably going to feel better. But, you know, I had already gotten my results and 78 versus what I've done. And our histories are totally different. He's on my website, waving the arms around.

This is what they do.

I don't tell them to do this. He took his. He went on his hunt, and I believe he got two out. He did and he did. And anybody who shoots knows that. And I'm sorry, he didn't shoot. It was a bow and arrow. It was a bow and arrow. Anybody. That takes a lot of pressure. It takes a lot on the shoulder. That was why he kind of said, this will probably be the last one. That was a. I don't want to say it was a miracle, but it was a wonderful result that we got. And he couldn't wait to do a testimonial for us. Yeah, that was A real big one and another one on the opposite end because you don't have to be in your 70s or 80s or 60s, 50s or aging older degenerated joints. We had a 17 year old girl come in. She was a volleyball player. She was a junior in high school at the time. It was June and it was a weird move that she did and she fractured one of her wrist bones and the lunate. And so what happened was she got an X ray and they missed it, they missed the fracture. So by September they believe that was when she got the first mri. They put her in a cast from September to December and then the surgeon did a surgery in December because nothing was getting better. So he did a surgery and the second step was going to be to take one of her veins out of her forearm and put it into the wrist to increase vascularity. And her mother said, no, Dr. Lisa will know what to do because I've treated so many people in their family with chiropractic and gut health and nutrition and everything she says. And I write for the paper. So she knows my me. She said, let's go see Dr. Lisa. So she brings her daughter in in March and she said, what about stem cells? And we said, yeah, this is going to be a great case for that. So we did similar protocol to what I had, but she didn't get anywhere near what I did because of my situation.

So she got an iv.

She did not get iv, did get a local injection of the stem cells and exosomes. We did the ozone and prp, which really sets the US out differently than others because they'll do PRP and ozone, but not in the order that we do and how we do it. It just works. And I know my colleague who does the research says don't change your protocols, that they work. So we did that for her and she went back. So that was over a two month period. She went back to the surgeon in. I'm going to say that was about two months later. She hadn't even gotten her second injection yet. And she was, was. He said that she was 60% improved. And then after the second one, this was three months after he had seen her, she was fully released to play volleyball and her life was better. And at this point now she was a freshman in college and that's when she did the. She's a testimonial with her mom on my website and you'll see the two of them together at 17. So you don't have to be 70, 80, 60, 50. She's a young girl. And the fact is that she had growth factors. Factors. She's young enough. Why didn't she heal? And what the surgeon was saying, she had what was called soft bones. I've never heard of that. But he, that's the only thing he could wrap his head around, why his treatments weren't working. And when we did ours, he finally understood, okay, this is something different here. It was 100 understanding, but it was good. And the bottom line is she's gotten her life back and she's playing volleyball and doing anything.

And the stem cells have angiogenic potentials, can help form new blood vessels. So he didn't have to transplant, you know, take a vessel somewhere else and put it there. And it's just, it's not never going to be as good as if your body is making its own. Right. Exactly. It's got its own plan, it's following its own plan. It's beautiful. And that's, you know, I love these stories because it really shows people the path of healing because people may trust their doctors ideas so much and discounting their body, body's own abilities, just give them the boost.

Give the body a boost and give it time. And just like they said to me, my colleague, if it doesn't work for whatever reason, use the surgery as plan B, not the stem cells as plan B. And every one of the patients that we have treated who have had the surgery and it didn't work and got the stem cells have wished they had gotten the stem cells first, but they didn't know about it. And they weren't given the that opportunity. And no surgeon even gave them the other side of their health story to say, why don't you go and consult with this type of a practitioner? And that's what's sad. But you know what, they're still feeling better. And the bottom line is the patient's where they need to be now. So.

And what's interesting is, you know, a lot of people are trapped in the medical system because their insurance will only pay for these doctors. So they think, okay, I'm saving money by seeing this doctor and following the plan because insurance is covering it. But if you have a surgery, you have all this downtime and possibly is, you know, causing future, you know, side potential damages and that you have to address and you're not fully functioning. How much is that costing you? I mean, people and really, how much is your cost, your health worth?

Worth money? Yeah.

And your health, your quality of life, downtime.

And I've seen shoulder surgeries when they can't even move their arm back, let alone do dips in the gym. Not everybody goes to the gym, but maybe you're stretching, maybe you cook and you can't put the cinnamon back up into the spice cabinet. You know, these are things you'll never do again. And they just sort of take it and live with that and just trust more than just one surgeon's opinion. Trust your body, right? Go for more than one stem cell consultation until it resonates with you. Think about it, meditate on it, whatever it takes. You know, ask your friends, ask people, talk to people who've done it. And yes, we're going to put all the positive cases. We really don't get negative cases. So that's why they're not on there.

Stem cell therapy, I mean, again, you know, when it comes to legality, I mean, there's nowhere in the US that says stem cell therapy is illegal. And actually there's are quite a few states that are saying stem cell therapy is absolutely legal. You can practice here. So in a lot of states is in a gray area. But the beauty of the treatment is the same thing as, as ozone therapy, peptide therapy, or a lot of the nutritional therapies. There's nowhere you're not going to find a law that says, yes, you can practice this. However, when you practice something, you better be sure it's safe. You, you're, you're hoping that it effective. But of course, effectiveness seems to be only determined by the fda. They can say whether or not something effective, that's a whole other subject. But at least it's safe, right? You're not hurting your patients. And that's the beauty of stem cell therapy that is so extraordinarily safe. Unless of course, doctors can always make mistakes. You inject in the wrong place, you're not putting the right things into the body.

Yeah, you know, it's pretty simple. And I know you know that because you inject. I'm not the injector, but I'm in the room and I see how it's done. It's not that difficult and I don't know how they could screw it. It's pretty simple and straightforward. You know, I think it's a lot more complex with the other things are getting on the medical side, you know. And how many hospital stories have you heard where they amputated the wrong leg, the wrong limb? That was going in Rhode island for a few years. There was a hospital, there were issues. And I know that because that's where I'm from. So that's a pretty big deal. And people dying on tables and not coming back from surgery and the side effects from that. And I even had one patient. We counted the number of visitors, visits. She has some sort of an allergy to a medication prior to her getting a surgery in a very big teaching facility in our area. Over 30 visits before the surgery. And then she had the surgery. She couldn't drive for two weeks because she lived alone. Then she couldn't get acupuncture. I believe it was almost two months prior and two months after because it was an inject, it was a needle. And they were afraid she could get some sort of infection. Infection. So her acupuncture was gone. Everything was upside down. Then how many months? It was two months of physical therapy. Going to and from the physical therapist all that time. What did that cost her? Also it was covered on Medicare. And that's the sad part. So look at yourself. I wrote an article. It's. They're all on my website and it was about what is your time worth and is it really worth it to get surgery after. And I don't even remember the actual article title but it's there. And what you have to go through for all of that. So just trust it, do it and think of yourself. And just because it's on insurance or the FDA said so may not be the best for you. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think people are still stuck on that. Everything that's been approved by the FDA is safe. They certainly don't know the history of all the medications and all the medical devices that have been approved and how many horror stories and yeah, and that's not even. I mean the current medical system really is unfortunate because you, I'm sure you've seen the statistic. Medical eras is the third leading cause of death in this country. And these are eras. So we're not counting the doctors who are doing what they're supposed to do right. According to the protocol. And how many people actually die from this? That so. But those are not counted as errors. Errors means that they're really just, they just screwed up. They, they didn't do follow the right protocol. They. Something was wrong. So yeah, it's much higher.

And people aren't taught that or told that prior to the surgery. Back surgery. I've been working with post surgery Pre surgery for 30 years. They were never told the numbers of what would be a failed surgery. That can go up to 76%. And I've asked every single patient. Were you told that? No. Are you sure you weren't under half anesthesia when you signed the paper. No. And then they would say they, they would have done it because they were in so much pain that their lives were almost over that they would do anything to get the pain relieved. And then the pain wasn't relieved. And that's when it's a big problem. But no one ever told them it was up to 76% of failed back, back surgeries.

Wow.

I was never taught that in school. So what are you gonna do? And that would be like jumping out of 6% chance that, that, that parachute.

Certainly the doctors who are teaching us surgery, I mean the, you know, the supervising doctors and training doctors, they're not going to tell us that. No one are huge.

It's not 2%, it's not 1% up to 76%. And then you're talking. Those are failures. Maybe those aren't even effortless errors. We don't know. So I don't know if it was segregated, segregated that way because I was writing the article and I didn't even get in that deep to it. But yeah, just open your eyes and just because it's not on insurance. Yes, there is an expense involved. None of it is on insurance. Unless maybe Medicare will cover the nurse practitioner's exam on you and, and your mri, your imaging. That's it. Yeah. But otherwise it's not going to be covered and that's okay. Just know and get your lives back and, and start to heal. Remember the other things that were diminished before, the actual arthritis or whatever or the tear or the accident. Let the other things heal as well. It just works so nice.

Yeah, I think surgery is definitely one of the shining spots, you know, for western medicine that we can go in cut and actually make things better. So that is, it's an amazing thing. It's always nice to know that we, we are good at it. We, we can do it. But comparing to what the body can do on its own, probably I, I don't know the statistics, but possibly 80% of surgeries could have been avoided if you just allow the body, give the body the right tools to heal. So there are definitely cases where you have to put the pieces back together and thank God that we have these surgeons that knows, know how to do it. And it's wonderful, it's wonderful to know that we have these amazing surgeons if.

Needed it is there. Yeah. But in many, many cases we just said, including mine, it was an option.

Right. You were told in no uncertain terms that you need that. And our mutual friend Jeff Thurston was told by two orthopedic surgeons. Oh, with your knees. Absolutely bilateral knee replacement. And he said, he told me, well, I don't want it, so what can you do? I don't want artificial knees. So all I did, one IV infusion, some stem cells in each knee. This is 10 years later, he's 79 years old. I mean doing amazing.

Raving about those injections.

Yeah, I mean he didn't need it at all. But when two separate orthopedic surgeons told him, absolutely bone on bone, you have no other hope. And same thing with my other patients. You know, plantar plate injury by was three different podiatrists. Absolutely uniser surgery. I didn't, I don't want to do it. Okay, let's do it. Do it. All I did was IV infusion, I did use some ultrasound, therapeutic ultrasound on the bottom of the foot and the plantar plate healed up within three months. Did an iron man.

Wow.

Yeah. This is a great, great story. Right. And it, that's, that just shows you. So if you listen to the doctors then you think you only have one option when you could have saved yourself. Not only you have no downtime time, you could have had better results. And yeah, it's, I think people deserve.

To know that's absolutely true. And just go within, ask your friends, come to me, go to my website. Go to your website, do your research. Yeah, there's. There are other sides to every story and when you do it and it works and you talk to people, it's worked with, it's fun.

Yeah, yeah. So Dr. Lisa, how do people find you?

They can find me on my website, which is caring pain relief.com and we're right now in process of moving it over to more of regenerative medicine. That's happening now. My phone number at the office is 480-584-3955 and leave messages, get in touch with us, we'll get back. I always offer a complimentary consultation. So if you don't live an hour within an hour of the practice. Medical tourism is very popular and I know patients come to me for the decompression that I do do for the Cox technique. But you can come. Scottsdale is a beautiful destination. You can golf, you can do a lot of things and you can come to the office and from any place. As long as you can get on a plane and fly to Scottsdale, we'll be more than happy to see you.

How many sessions does it take?

How many days for me, for over two months. Which you wouldn't spend two months in Arizona. But if we can get you with all of the injections, those can be done within a week, maybe a week and a half, depending on my physician's time to do that.

But the decompression.

Over the decompression, that's 30 to 40 visits for some people, depending depends on the severity of their condition. Okay. Maybe 20. It's. It's all. It's not cookie cutter. I see. And they'll spend time. And if that happens, I've spent a whole month. And they've come in every day for a month.

Wow.

Because they've got a place to stay or someone they know, or they'll rent something, and this is how it works. But.

Yeah.

And then they can go back home and they're in better shape. They're doing what they need to do.

Wonderful. Lovely. Thank you so much, Dr. Lisa. It's such an enjoyable conversation. Thank you for sharing your experience and congratulations and your wonderful healing capabilities.

Oh, thank you so much. And thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. Of course.