Second Order Effects In Sales

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Hey everyone, this is Julie. Welcome back to another episode of Million Dollar Grit. Today I I wanna dive into a webinar audit I did and discuss what a second-order effect is and why it matters in sales. A second-order effect is basically an indirect or downstream consequence of an action, specifically how that action might change people's beliefs, behavior, or interpretation over time beyond the immediate goal. And this is very, very relevant in sales. And a first-order effect is what happens when you deploy a particular strategy. The second order effect is what that causes, either consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or non-intentionally. And it's so important because there's a lot that goes on in any kind of sales conversation, whether it's a sales call or a webinar, and you're trying to achieve a goal, but that goal could inadvertently impact a different goal at some point else in a presentation or a call. Let's actually bring this into the real world and with a client that I'm working on. Now, I have a client who has submitted her webinar deck to me at least 20 times, maybe. Now she's converting at around 9%. She's not loving that rate. Keep in mind, 9% is a good conversion, but she knows that it's possible to hit 20%, so she keeps going at it because she thinks it's possible for her too, which is a great attitude. She just keeps plugging away. Now, this particular audit, I was looking at her buy live bonus. The reason we do a buy live bonus is it helps people take action today in that moment when you're doing the presentation, and that's really important. So she added a slide that said, buy within 15 minutes and you get a coaching call. Now, the first-order effect with this slide is that she's creating short-term urgency that pushes live viewers who are watching and are probably almost convinced— she's pushing them to go ahead and buy. Not pushing, but she's giving them an incentive to go ahead and buy. And the idea with this buy live bonus is that it's supposed to improve Conversions. And most coaches would sort of give that a thumbs up, be like, okay, great. If there was not a buy live bonus, a good coach might say, hey, you need a buy live bonus. Okay, so that's the first order effect, and that's where a lot of people stop. And this is why people who use templates that have good conversion rates— but if there's not a coach helping you, you sometimes can't replicate the like winning choreography that you're seeing in the call or the presentation because you're not understanding some of the nuance of what's happening slide by slide. And that's why high-converting templates don't always work when you are kind of on your own. So I looked at her slide deck and she's got this buy live, but there was a slide before that and it was the slide she was using to kind of set it up. And so she said, all right, she gets through her offer, she gets through her pitch, and then she says, you might be thinking, wow, that's a lot there. And I bought courses before and even with the best intentions, they just sit there and I don't need more downloads. I need someone to actually coach me. The first order effect of that slide is she's trying to set up the value of the call. So when she actually drops the buy live bonus, the value of the call is felt, right? And that makes sense because getting a 1-hour call with her or whatever, when it's normally $1,000, it is a high value call. The problem is that there's a second order effect happening, which is she's just planted the idea in the viewer's heads that the program they're buying is, quote, just a course, because she is saying, hey, I've bought courses before, but I didn't do something. I need someone to actually coach me. That sets up a great incentive to get the call. But if they weren't thinking, oh, this is just a course before, it is now. No, she did not mean to do that. And the program is not just a course. That's really important to know. It's a full system. It ran her 7-figure business. She then sold that 7-figure for 7 figures. I mean, this is a really valuable program, but in an attempt to set up the value of the live call to drive urgency to buy, she inadvertently created a second-order effect that she didn't want. Then the next slide actually showed the call and it said that it was active for 15 minutes. Another second-order effect happens here. And because the 15-minute timer is what? It's urgency, right? But it was actually quite random because they don't understand what's going to happen in 15 minutes. Is the presentation going to go on for 15 more minutes? Is there something that happens when the 15 minutes is up? And because it's not tied to anything logical, it creates this feeling of pressure. They can't really justify why it's available for 15 minutes. And she's also set up that this is one of the most valuable things they need, inadvertently making it sound like the course without coaching isn't good enough. Okay. That was the intended— that was the unintended impact of the way these slides were set up. So then she repeats the slide for the byline bonus, like 2 or 3 more times. Again, her intention is to remind them to take action. First order effect. Second order effect, rather than it being exclusive or scarce or something that only a few people can have, it's starting to feel like she's dangling a carrot. Okay? And if the buy live bonus is truly essential, which the more you repeat it, the more essential it feels, you might get people thinking, well, shouldn't that not be a buy live bonus? Shouldn't that be something that's integrated into the program? And that is a needle that you must thread. You need a buy live bonus that's extra, that's valuable, but also not necessary. And you're like, man, that's a tightrope to walk. Exactly. And I went through the audit and I explained all this, and then I sort of like mocked up a version of like how I would say it. I pretended to be her on the Loom and showed her what I'd say and how I'd say it. And I could do that, but instead what I did is I took that transcript and I put it into ChatGPT and I asked for some like, uh, teaching points, if you will, or outline of like what it was I was doing to reverse those second-order effects. First thing I did was I removed the time-based pressure. I did not— I told her, I said, don't make it 15 minutes. That creates that first-order speed but second-order distrust, right? What I suggested she do anyway instead is to say, okay, listen, as long as I'm live on this call and this room is open, and that creates a real condition, a logical— it's like logical, it's not like a tactic, right? As long as I'm here, as long as I'm live, this bonus is available to you. What it does is it also reframes the bonus as something that's a reward for being there live. It doesn't punish replay viewers, right? Like, oh, you missed it, too bad, so sad. I mean, they did miss it, too bad, so sad, but it's rewarding the live viewers. And it's kind of like parenting. You want to reward the good behavior and minimize the bad behavior. And a lot of times marketers do the opposite, right? They like lean on pain, but I don't like to do that. I like to reward people who show up, and then that becomes like a thank you offer instead of some sort of threat. And the biggest issue with the 15 minutes was that she was using urgency in a way that wasn't— in a way that didn't make sense to them. But what she actually had in her back pocket, which she wasn't using, that she could very, very easily justify, was scarcity. And she can't give everyone a call, right? And if she can't give everyone a call and she wants to be fair, it makes sense that you would offer the live call to people who took the time to commit to the webinar. And that is ethical. It is logical scarcity. It strengthens it as like, you do not need this to succeed, but because you showed extraordinary commitment by attending this class for an hour and you're still here live 55 minutes in, I'm going to offer this as a way of saying thank you. And that becomes a cherry on top. It's not the thing that makes the offer legitimate. Feels really good to the people who are actually there. And then I also recommended that she make it really concrete, which is, this is what you're gonna have to do. You're gonna have to buy while we're live. Then I need you to tell me your name. I'm going to go ahead and send you my calendar, right? And this is the, like, the very next steps of what's happening. Really important for people to make it feel like this is actually happening, not just words that you're spewing. The next thing I recommended is that this buy live bonus doesn't happen until the offer is fully clear. You don't, you don't want to add these buy live bonuses too close to when you're presenting the offer because it starts to all sound like noise. And once the offer is understood, once the value is established, once the price is already anchored, you reveal it right at the end before you get to the questions. And that's going to actually amplify the desire to buy. It's not going to confuse the offer. And that's really important. So instead of mentioning the slide 3 or 4 or 5 times, it's one time right at the end. And those are all the changes that I suggested that she make. And this is just one small example. And people who say, oh, webinars don't work for me, they really probably just haven't given the webinar the time of day that it deserves. I had a Voxer message just this morning from a woman in my mastermind who I, and I've talked about her before, just had incredible persistence. You know, she's not the kind of person who likes to do the same thing week after week. She's an idea-driven person, and so committing to the weekly webinar was really painful. It was painful for lots of reasons. She had a financial crunch, so she had to stop the ads, and she continued to do the webinar week after week after week, and doing her best to fill the class organically, which is hard to do. She had lots of small audiences, zero sales, I mean months and months and months, and now she's getting sales every week, and she was just in my Voxer. She said, "I had the most sales I have ever had. She said it was crazy, and this is just all a result of like hard work. And she also was open to the change that was going to be required of her to create an offer that would sell over and over again. I'm really, really proud of her, and I'm proud of this person too. This person who I've just spent this whole podcast episode talking about, she is Brilliant. She is persistent. And, you know, truth is she's doing great on her webinar, and her program is about $900, so it's definitely a little bit harder than a $500 sale. And she just wants to be the best that she can be, and I really admire that in her. And I am grateful to be coaching so many people like this. And if you are sitting on the fence about a webinar, it's worth it. It's hard work, But it's worth it. And as always, I'm, I'm happy to be there for you if that is something that would work for your schedule and your budget, because it really is a long-term sales asset that can make a huge difference in your financial future. Anyway, hope that was helpful. Chat soon.

And there you have it, folks, another dose of Million Dollar Grit. I hope today's episode has left you feeling inspired, equipped, and ready to face your own entrepreneurial journey. With resolve. Remember, until next time, embrace the struggle, harness your grit, and keep pushing forward. You're stronger than any challenge you face. I'm Julie Chenell, and this has been Million Dollar Grit.