The Hardest Thing I’ve Ever Done (and Why I Did It Anyway)

Welcome to Million Dollar Grit, the podcast that dives deep into the world of entrepreneurship, where tenacity meets strategy and dreams meet reality. My name is Julie Chenell, and I explore the raw, often overlooked truths of what it takes to succeed in business and in life. It's not just about the glossy success stories. It's about the grit it takes to get there.

Hey everyone, welcome back to Million Dollar Grit. Today I have a super fun episode. I am here with my dear friend, former client, and current publisher, Sheri Ward. And in honor of my book launch coming up, she has agreed to come on this podcast and interview me, which is kind of silly and fun, but I thought that Sheri would have a unique perspective to bring to the table as someone who has been my client, has been with me for the entire journey of Million Dollar Grit, and also is the person who helped me publish it and get it out into the world. So welcome to Million another great— Sherri, thank you so much. This was actually your idea.

It was fun. I'm excited. It's finally arrived.

I know, finally, after 3 years of moaning and whining, Julie's gonna publish a book.

You've been through so much writing this book.

So I know. All right, well, you, you take over. You have questions for me.

I do. Yeah, I do. I, I know that most people know you as a business strategist and co-founder of FG Funnels, but Is this the first book you've written?

Technically no, but officially yes. Not sure if you want me to explain what I—

yeah, unpack that a little bit.

So back in the days when I was a blogger, I— KDP, Amazon, the Kindle store was like up and coming. I had taken a bunch of my blog posts, threw them into a book, published it, and sold a few copies. Then when I had a real traumatic episode with a family member, I actually wrote a memoir, published it on Amazon KDP, and then got interviewed by like big people, sold hundreds of copies, but then deeply regretted publishing it because my stance had entirely changed. Not only that, I didn't have an editor, I didn't have anyone edit the book, and so I took it down and I just kind of wanted to forget about it. And that was in 2011 or 2012. So it's been 12 years, and man, what a different experience, like writing a real, a real book. I mean, I know those are a lot.

Yeah, you've been through a lot of life experience since then too, for sure, for sure.

And I'm really proud of this work, and I'm really excited to get it out there.

Me too. I'm excited too. And you've ghostwritten a book, right?

I have, yes. I ghostwrote Marketing Secrets, which I did in about 3 months. That was a book for Russell Brunson based on his podcast. I, it was pre-ChatGPT. I went through all his podcasts, all his transcripts, and wrote a full 50,000-word, you know, nonfiction type book summarizing his lessons. Yeah, that was quite the project.

Wow. Wow. I know that you've built like funnels and businesses, so people are like, oh, Julie, it's probably easy to write a book. You're also a really good writer. So was it easy?

No, it was the hardest thing I have ever done. I, and I, I still think it's hard even though I've completed it. And even though I've had support, there is nothing quite like writing a book. I mean, I've built, I mean, Sherri, you know, I've built like huge courses, you know, 10-module courses, and I've written thousands and thousands of words in emails and blogs and social media. Writing a book is an entirely different animal.

I agree with you. So what about—

No, but no, no. Why? Why is it different?

I have to know. I feel like the book that you wrote was very personal and business, both. You combine both in this book. True. And I've seen a lot of people writing that, and there's a lot of healing that comes through that. Even really high-level business people— and I've said this all along to you, even in our mentoring and all that we've done— even high-level business people, it's like they write that first book for the healing piece. There's a healing piece that nobody talks about on some of these books.

That's so true. And there was a lot of stuff that I needed to grapple with. And I actually changed the whole length and arc of my book as I was wrestling. There were several late nights with you in my home listening to me with this, with this wrestling.

Yeah.

But I do think, I do think the difficulty of writing half memoir, half business development was really difficult because I wanted the story to be true to what happened. I also wanted it to be something that people could learn from no matter where they were, what kind of business they were in, and something that wouldn't expire with trends. And to try to hit all three of those goals in every chapter was difficult, extremely difficult.

And so it kind of do a compare contrast, like, because you did part of this, the whole memoir piece earlier. So how does this— how was this piece different, or how was it different this time around writing that? More of the personal stories in this one?

Yeah, well, I had to figure out what stories really mattered to the reader. When you write a memoir, you— I mean, I would say when I wrote the memoir that I wrote that I then regretted, there you're absolutely right. It was a lot of me trying to process what had happened to me and also to try to make meaning of my story to help others, right? That's how people process trauma. They like try to make it mean something. And I do think the book in some regard helped people, some people, and helped me process, but it was very raw and it was very soon after the event. So as I took to writing this book, I knew people wanted to know things about my life and how stuff had happened, you know, my divorce, how I, you know, had a baby while I was trying to moonlight my business. But I actually realized that there were other stories that nobody knew that were not as salacious but were really important to the lesson of how I became who I was. The interesting thing is there's a lot of stories in the book that I never thought would be interesting in a memoir, but became really critical because they tie directly to the lesson that should ideally help the reader. And I think that was the key shift, was like a memoir written for me or a memoir with business written for somebody else. And, and that was the key difference.

I think that's really important. And I always say, I got this from another gal, but she says you write from hurt to heal to help. Mm-hmm. So, you know, you come from that hurt place and then the healing, and then you can help people. And I, it feels like first one was coming from that hurt to heal. Place, and this one is more— now you're able to help people and think about them and what's in it for them reading it.

Yeah. And I, you know, originally I was going to write the entire story all the way up to the present day, and I made a decision to not do that because, well, two reasons. One, that some of the things that have happened in the past couple years are deeply complex and nuanced, and I don't feel like I'm far enough removed from them to write about them in a way that will truly help the reader. But number 2, I went back to the original goal of the book and I thought, well, what do I, what do I actually want for the book? And what I want is for people who are struggling, who have not hit those financial goals yet, to pick up a book and feel that they now have permission, they have lessons, they have things that can deeply change how they behave, how they think, and how they act. And for me, all of those lessons that, that got me to that first million dollar year happened before I was anybody, you know, before anybody knew who I was in the internet marketing world. So I end the book right at the stage where I become, you know, I'm putting this in quotes, internet marketing famous. And I worried at first that people would be disappointed that I didn't talk about Funnel Gorgeous or Digital Insiders or my years at ClickFunnels, 'cause that's what everybody knows me for. But ultimately what will help the reader are the lessons that I learned before anybody knew who I was.

I love that. So it doesn't include the FG Funnel period yet.

So not even, no. And I told people, I said, you know, you can get on my email list. It doesn't mean that I won't tell stories. I thought, you know what, I feel better probably telling, telling those in short story form because the, the years from 2018 to 2022 were like 3 decades in terms of stories.

And I walked some of those with you.

So yes, you did.

You know, so I get that. I remember one night we were up late at your house for one of our mentoring retreats, and you were just sharing very vulnerably about like what you were going through writing it and all of that. And I remember Kathy jumping in and she's like, Julie, why don't you just like, you know, kind of scrap this one for a while or put it off to the side? And she's like, why don't you just go write the like other business book first? And you're like, no, I can't. Why was that?

I don't know.

I, I, I don't know. I, I have, I have some ideas because I remember that night and I remember Kathy saying that like, this is causing you so much angst. Like, people knew how much angst— they're gonna read the book and they're gonna be like, why? It's, it's just a normal book. Like, you don't understand what it took to get it normal. But, you know, she said that. I remember going to a Steve Sims event having the same, um, you know, angst, and someone saying to me, why don't you just write a fiction book and change the names, and then you can write all the details you want? And I, I thought about that briefly, and I thought about Kathy's, but for— but there was a need for me to close this loop because I knew that there were important things that I wanted to share with an audience. And I don't know if it's just my, my nature of closing loops. I also have a funny feeling that, you know, as someone who believes in God, I think that God was trying to bring me, bring me out of the desert and bring me back into connection with him because the book didn't really finish until that happened. And it's, the irony is, is that this entire story takes place during essentially the, the 10 years when I was sort of walking away from my faith. And I, I dedicated the book to, I dedicated the book to Jesus of Nazareth because I am now out of that wilderness season. But I just, I think about the scandalous mercy of God that the 10 years when I was basically like, I don't, I don't really know you, I don't wanna have anything to do with you. You can see that the blessing that was still on my life, I mean, completely undeserved. So I think there's also some timing that happened there that, that I didn't realize was happening and why I said, no, I have to, I have to push through. I have to finish this project.

Does it also feel like a closed loop from the first book that you published that you're like, ah, and then you pulled it? Does it kind of feel like a closed loop on that as well? From the very first memoir at all?

Yeah, I mean, the first, the first memoir was really about one 9-month period in my life, and it was 2011. And this book, that, uh, story makes an appearance in chapter 4, and I feel really proud of how far I've come from those days. And I think that there is a small part of me that wanted to close that loop from back then. I mean, I really have dealt with a lot of the feelings about it, even the feelings about having published something that I then changed my stance on. And I use that as a lesson in the book to say, you know, like, listen, if you think you can't make it in the world and you can't get yourself out there because of your past, well, hold my beer. Let me tell you something. Yeah, I hope that gives people permission. So yeah, it does feel a little bit like a, like a good, nice, tidy loop closing.

I know, because you'd like to close those loops.

I really do. I'm a loop closer for sure.

What do you feel like was the biggest healing moment for you in this book?

Honestly, the biggest healing moment for me was when I finally hired an editor.

And you're a ChattyG gal, so yeah, I mean, and I did not—

I, I really did not use— I honestly, when I wrote the first draft of the book, I used ChattyG for some assistance on the later chapters that never made it. Like, they never even made it into the draft. But these first 15, 16 chapters, most of them I wrote pre- pre-my obsession with Chatty G. But when I finally hired you and got your editor in my manuscript, there was so much fear. I had had people reading the book and giving me feedback, but like, now it was like someone who does this for a living was looking at the book, and I was so afraid of feeling that like gut of, oh my gosh, they don't like it and it has to all be rewritten, and You know, she made a lot of changes for sure. There were, there were a lot of changes, but it was so much easier to edit a book with someone telling you what to edit. I like, it was like this big scary monster in a closet that like once I finally did it, I opened the door and it was like a jacket. It wasn't a monster. Not only that, but, but Rachel said she loved the book and that she was learning things about her own business as she was reading the book.

And, uh, so that must have felt really good.

Yeah, she said it even— she said, I read the book and it was changing, you know, the way I was thinking about my business as I was reading it. So I thought, okay, okay, you know, all this fear that like it would be too boring or too simple. And I still do worry about that sometimes because people know me as like a tactician and And this book is, is, you can give it to your neighbor who wants to start a business. Like it's, it's meant to be for anyone who wants to build a business. And that's great.

But sometimes simple's harder.

Well, it is. It like, I, I, this is what I'm trying to explain. Like the amount of work it took me to get this book simple, you know, I, I guess that is one of those things like Steve Jobs claims, like simplicity is hard to pull off and It was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Is that where the wrestling and the angst came in, or where, where was the wrestling and the angst coming from?

Yeah, it was coming from a fear, lots of fears, that I would let down my audience. I thought, you know, people are going to want to know the salacious, you know, behind-the-scenes tales of ClickFunnels. Oh, it's not going to be there. Or people want to know the latest tactic on how you get a webinar to close. That's gonna be in. And I thought, after all this time and all this energy, I'm gonna give a book and people are gonna be like, yeah, I've heard you say that a million times. And, or this is not anything I couldn't get in any other business book. And that was my biggest, that was my biggest fear. But as people have slowly started reading it, and the edited version is so, so, so much better than anything I could have done on my own. I have just a level of confidence that it's exactly the type of book that I wanted to, to give the world in terms of what I learned those 10 years in, in, uh, behind the scenes growth.

I love that. What was your biggest surprise in writing the book?

My biggest surprise in writing the book, aside from how hard it was, you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think I'm gonna give the same, I'm gonna give the same answer as my biggest surprise was working with an editor. I had never worked with an editor and I didn't realize how much easier editors make life. And coming from someone who, you know, uses AI, having a human editor was an absolute game changer. I'm starting to realize that maybe is how people feel about me when they hire me as their funnel coach, you know? 'Cause I just knew nothing about it and it was just, I was like, I'm never, I'm never writing a book without an editor again, ever.

Yeah. Yeah. I could, I could tell. It's just, there's something about that human component that you just can't replace.

No, you, you can't. And because half of the game is between the ears too, you know? And I would message her and I'd be like, tell me it's bad. Tell me it's good. You know?

And unless you change your settings on ChatGPT, then it's, they're always like, you know, telling you how wonderful you are and you're like, are you really sure?

Yeah, exactly. And also, but, but also like an editor reads lots of books and edits lots of books, right? They have a vantage point that, that other people don't.

Yeah, that's true too. Well, what would you say to someone who's, who feels like they should write a book, but maybe they're running, you know, a large company and they just keep putting it on the back burner because I know like with a lot of business people, they just, I don't have time, I don't have time. What would you suggest to them?

Well, I would suggest to try to make sure you have a good outline and a good goal from the beginning. It'll make it a lot easier. And I think part of my problem was that that wasn't super fleshed out and I kept toggling between goals and missions. And so there was a lot of wasted time and effort. The second thing I would say is once you have a good goal and a good outline, It's scarier in idea than it is in actuality. If you write 500 words a day, you will, you will get to the draft and then get your butt to an editor as quickly as possible because that second half will go way, way faster, uh, if you have an editor.

Yeah, because you spent a lot of that time without the editor that, that would've speeded up the process and probably your angst and that worry and all that probably would've went down a lot quicker as well. Yeah.

I mean, I, I think though I spent a year and a half trying to decide, am I writing a business book or a memoir? You know, like I kept, yeah, I kept going back and forth because I wasn't really sure. And I ended up doing a full hybrid, which felt a little dangerous. I'm not gonna lie because it doesn't really fit in either category, but I think we did it well.

I love it. I love it. So how does this one fit? Like, did you, did it, like, you're like, I'm ready to write the next one or? Yeah, like, no, just let me get through this one first.

I, I definitely, when the, when the book was finished and I sent it off and your proofreader and formatter were working with me and I saw it like fully edited, I, I felt so much relief and I thought, okay, I'm ready to do another book and this one's going to be easier because it's going to be a clear category and it's not going to be so much about like the, you know, my personal story. And I still feel that way, but I'm also not in any rush to start another book yet because I want to focus on marketing Million Dollar Grit and getting it into as many hands as possible. It's a free, it's a free gift to my community, my followers. It shouldn't be hard, but we'll see.

I love it. I know one of the things that I admire the most about you is just that honesty and integrity and like pulling back the curtain. So are there any surprises in the book?

I don't, I don't think there are any major surprises. If you've been following me for a long time, you'll probably remember bits and pieces of the story. So I don't, I don't really think there are any big surprises. If you don't know me and you pick up this book, you will probably be surprised at some of it. But overall, I think, I think people who know me, it'll feel very much like a Julie book.

A Julie book. I was just gonna say a Julie book. Yes.

All right. And one of the, one of the nice things is that because of, you know, AI, I am, you know, inside the funnel there's going to be a couple paid products. One of them is a book GPT, and I am absolutely loving it. I created a GPT, I split up all the chapters. And I just think that's going to be a really helpful way to integrate and incorporate the lessons so that it actually, you know, makes a difference in your business. I'm excited about that.

So meaning that if they do the ChatGPT and then the applications and the lessons that you give, it'll help them for their own business, correct?

Correct. Or you could, you could even ask it like, you know, cross-reference chapter 3 about you know, follow the problem and chapter 6 about saying yes quickly and apply it to my business, right? So you can also like ask it to cross-reference chapters. The, the book is very organized. It's like a story. It's, it's chronological, so it's going in order of actually how I did it. It's a story, then it's a lesson from the story, and then it's the application of the lesson. It's so— in that sense, it's a very organized memoir business hybrid. So the GPT can really can really do a lot with it.

I love that, man. I want to get my hands on that one too.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right, so when someone closes the last page, what do you hope they walk away with?

When someone closes the last page, I hope they walk away with a deep sense that it is possible for them, that they are not as far as they think, and that it doesn't require super genius IQ or some, you know, hard-to-acquire skill, that you can do it even with the current skill set you have and the mindset shifts from the book. That's— I really just want people to feel a sense of permission and hope, and, and I want it to inspire them to action. I mean, that's one of the things that I love about teaching is I want to actually help change people's minds in a way that changes behavior so that they start acting differently. That's the best I could hope for.

I love it. So I know you've got a lot of extra goodies. You want to talk about what you're offering with it? Because I know it's not just the ChatGPT, but you've, you've done a lot of extras with it as well.

Yeah, the book will be free, uh, on the thank you page of the download. You can purchase the private podcast version of it. So each chapter is a podcast episode. I also have a 5 to 7 minute commentary on each chapter. So it's a, you know, 16 chapters plus 16 commentaries, like 32 episodes. Private podcast, that will be $9. I also have a Million Dollar Grit spreadsheet. It's a little mini training on how to think about the million dollar year and your million dollar business. That will be $12. And then the GPT, which will help you work through the book's lessons, that'll be $27.

I love that. I love the application of that. So it is launching October 26th. Yes. So where can they sign up for all these delicious goodies?

They can go to milliondollargrit.com, download the free book, and then it'll take you through the funnel. You can purchase whatever suits your fancy. If you are a Kindle lover, you can also purchase the book on Amazon for 99 cents on Kindle. Of course, I would love a review. That would be fantastic. And it all goes live on October 26th. My one-year anniversary.

Yay, I love it. I love it. Yay. Thanks, Julie, for letting me interview you and get the backstage tour of your book.

So yeah, this was fun. This is a great idea. And where can people find out more about your publishing services? I just want to give a shout out to you and your amazing team. Where could they go?

SquareTreePublishing.com. And then we have weekly interest meetings. And that is launchingauthors.com/interest.

Awesome. All right, well, I will put those in the show notes. Everyone, thanks so much for listening and I'll talk to you soon. And there you have it, folks.

Another dose of Million Dollar Grit. I hope today's episode has left you feeling inspired, equipped, and ready to face your own entrepreneurial journey with resolve. Remember, until next time, embrace the struggle. Struggle, harness your grit, and keep pushing forward. You're stronger than any challenge you face. I'm Julie Chenell, and this has been Million Dollar Grit.