242: Marketing Trends Small Businesses Need to Understand, with Andrew Gottlieb

Once you have that rapport built with people over years, if you ever do have a need that you do need support with, it's not going to feel Taki. It's going to be like, oh, he or she's supported me and never asked anything returned for. However, for many months, years, it's been like, of course I'll jump in and help.

Hello, everyone, this is Kathy Caprino, and welcome to my podcast, Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life, to rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week, I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts, and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of Finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful, and meaningful life, business and career.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. Kathy here. I have to tell you, I've been you're seeing this in November, so it's going to be cold and kind of the holiday season. We're not there yet. We're in the warmth. And I just moved, so I am, first of all, my bad knee is shocked. Just, just so you know. And I'm a little tired and discombobulated. But that is all going to be fixed when we start talking to Andrew Gottlieb. Thank you so much for joining us today, Andrew. I'm so happy to see you.

Thank you. It's great to see you as well. And hopefully I don't sound too NPR oriented and I don't bore you, so hopefully that's possible.

No, that's not you. That's, that's other guests. No, it isn't. None of my guests. I love npr. What am I saying? I'm riveted. Anyway, here we go, people. We are talking about marketing trends small businesses need to understand. And I want to tell you, I've known Andrew, is it four years now? And I've been on your amazing show. No typical moments. We were saying maybe two to three years ago. And the reason I knew I have to have you on is we had a chat recently and you were talking to me about marketing trends. My business needs to know. And you know, my eyes popped out of my head because I'm hanging on by a thread. I'm savvy in some ways, but in some I'm like, I don't want to hear it because it's too technical or whatever, but I know you're going to help. So this is for small business owners or people considering it or even if you have a consulting practice or coaching practice. These are things you really do have to understand and if you don't, it will hold you back. I can tell you that. So thank you. Let me tell everybody all about you, Andrew. We have a quick bio. Founder and CEO at no typical moments. I'd love to know where that name came from. We'll find out. A highly specialized digital marketing agency that works exclusively with purpose driven and social impact focused businesses. I love that. I love that niche. To collectively advance humanity as a California benefit corporation. I don't know what that is. You'll tell us. Our talented team members are passionate about issues like climate change, personal development, gender equality and animal welfare, among others. When Andrew isn't working, he enjoys hiking, running, playing soccer and tennis, practicing and I don't know how to pronounce this.

What is it?

Muay Thai.

Oh, Muay Thai.

I don't know what it is.

Is it a martial arts?

No, it is. And actually now that you're reading that bio, I'm realizing I should have edited that. I haven't done Muay Thai in a year or two. When I wrote a very persuasive bio in the past, Muay Thai was something I was. I hired a coach and I was doing weekly training sessions.

Good for you. Well, it's a part of who you are whether you're doing it right this minute or not. Glad we talked about it. Are you still watching the Pittsburgh Steelers though?

Oh yeah. That's a non negotiable.

From Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh.

From Pittsburgh. Live in San Diego. I'm actually in Pittsburgh as we're doing this interview visiting my parents. So yeah, Pittsburgh's are Pittsburgh Steelers. Is a non negotiable. Every day wherever you are. I don't even attempt it to bother me. That's what I'm doing.

Really.

That's called dedication. All right, thank you again for being here. Let us dive in. But you know, it's interesting. I'm looking at the session prep form that my guests fill out and often they'll write three top bullets that I want I would love listeners to take away. And I thought that these were fascinating. I want to start there. Do not become married to a social media platform. Platform. I have my own story with that and we're going to dig into what's wrong with that. You're going to tell us but boy, I've lived it. Number two, figure out your tracking. I think people's heads are going to explode right there. And then learn the difference between. Now you wrote brand slash marketing and sales. You mean branding versus marketing and sales. All right, my friend, why don't we start with the one of those three that is absolutely the most important that people understand.

And actually, let me just correct you. Branding and marketing, I had in one bucket.

And then. I see.

So we can go in order. So we can start with number one of not being married to social media.

Yeah.

Wait a minute. Oh, my goodness. Oh, yeah. I thought it said stop recording, but we're recording. Good. Fabulous. Don't want to miss a word of this. Go ahead, tell us what you mean by so don't be wedded to one platform.

So what I mean by this is that I'll take what happened last summer in June of 2021. So we actually, for the longest time, were primarily a Facebook advertising organization. At no typical moments, which was going extreme. Yeah, that was really our bread and butter. And it was going extremely well because the platform was. Was growing, costs were super cheap. And, you know, it felt like that. What happened in December of 2020 is that Facebook and Apple, it almost felt like Godzilla and King Kong declared war against each other. So Apple over here said they were going to stop allowing Facebook to track its users on. On the iPhone. So what that meant was last summer, when you logged into Facebook or Instagram, I'm using that interchangeably as Facebook owns Instagram, you had a checkbox, more or less. It said, do you want Facebook to track your activity? And you could say yes or no. So if you hit no, that meant from an advertising standpoint, you couldn't do as sophisticated as advertising campaigns as you could in the past. And simultaneously, once someone left Facebook and they clicked your ad, you had less visibility into what the rest of their customer journey flow looked like.

So if they check no to that. Right?

If they check no. So what that means then is as an advertiser, you weren't as clear with, I spent this on Facebook. And that came back to me in revenue and even from kind of the daily maintenance of your campaigns, it wasn't as simple as it was in the past. So as marketers, if you have no idea if this is actually making your business money and you can track most things in the digital world, why would you invest more in Facebook? So that's one thing that happened. On top of that, there have been just a lot of PR nightmares with Facebook between Cambridge Analytica to the protests of large platforms saying, we're not going to advertise for a month during the summer of 2020. People just don't like Mark Zuckerberg. There's just a whole plethora of PR related nightmares Facebook has had. So if you saw how Facebook stock plummeted at the start of this year, that was really a result of everything that happened last summer with the iOS 14 updates. So for the first time ever, Facebook had a decrease in users to their platform. And there's new platforms that are emerging like TikTok that are just more fun to be on. So I that is the reason for number one is that you just shouldn't be married to one platform being the end all be all for the next 40 years. In the same way I got newspaper and TV were the way you advertised, you know, years ago, people aren't consuming content in newspapers anymore. Like that sounds like such a crazy concept to me that you would actually find news in a newspaper. And so what it really means is that you need to go where the attention is going.

All right, questions, Andrew, Questions, questions. So I want to give a quick personal story with this. I still adore LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my happy place. I call it the cocktail party in the sky. The great cocktail party in the sky. And that said, there are times where these platforms are on the rise and when you're riding that wave, it can be incredible. So in I think it was 2014, 2015, they launched the publishing platform. Can you imagine back before that you couldn't post a blog on, you know, an article, you could write an article on that platform. So I quickly, I jumped on it, went okay, what the heck, the second or third one went viral. 3 million views. Because nobody was doing it right. I think I was the first. I don't know, I think first hundred maybe. So then can you believe that they, when they came out with their first app and that feels like the dinosaur era, you know, your first app, they made me professional women's expert. They labeled me that and career expert for the app. Well, I think I told you, Andrew, I was getting a thousand followers a day.

Wow.

It was like, well, what happens is in the tech world, tell me if you don't agree, things change fast. And while that went on for two years, thus one key reason I have 800,000 followers there, things don't stay the same in the tech world ever, Right? So what's happened is, you know, 900 million people can write on LinkedIn. So the visibility is completely different. And even the engagement with all those people, your share of the engagement is going to be so much less. So I remember years ago, a marketing expert said to me when I was really putting a lot of stock in the writing I was doing on Forbes, which I still do, but I do much less of it. She said, I don't think you should be spending that much time doing that because you're not building your brand. You're the Forbes lady who talks about careers. And I thought, that's ridiculous. Now, Forbes has put me on the map a little, but I would say, had I to do it over again, absolutely ride the tide of being a part of a huge brand, but don't.

Disregard your own brand.

So I want you to, I want you to comment on that, but I would love you to answer this as well. When you say don't be wedded to one platform. Like, for me, Facebook never generated stuff in my ad campaigns. Now, maybe I hired the wrong people, but that's not my where my world lives. LinkedIn is it? But I'm seeing a lot of my colleagues who put out this similar genre of content rocking it on TikTok. So here's my question. I'm going backwards. Would you suggest that someone in a business like mine, coaching, therapy, whatever, you know, entrepreneurial growth. Well, yes to that. Should be on TikTok when LinkedIn is their primary world.

Let me answer that question to start. And then I think there's a few other you sprinkled in there. So what's happening on TikTok right now is exactly what happened to you on LinkedIn in 2014. And it's really a supply and demand equation that's going on, that there's not enough content creators on the app right now, but number of users who are downloading TikTok is just skyrocketing. It's not even like this. It's a, like, straight line of just how popular the app is becoming. So you have a unique moment in time to capitalize on building a follower base on TikTok right now.

And is that what you say to your people, your clients? Just because it's soaring, does it mean we should do it? I should get 300,000 followers on TikTok, should I?

Yes and no. So, well, answer with that is yes, because TikTok is showing you how content is going to be created, moving into the future. So if it's not TikTok, any future social media platform that developed is going to be building upon the momentum of that platform. So as you're seeing new stuff keep on being created, it is supported, at the very least, to see how content is going to be continuing, evolving, moving ahead into the future.

So, so learn the trends there because they're going to be built on whether it's TikTok or another platform. Is that what you mean?

Exactly. Because you can see Instagram with Instagram reels is pretty much just copying TikTok. So that's. That's why. Yes, because even if you're not building that on TikTok, that's how content is being created right now. That is catching on and viral and is super popular that you can transfer that skill into everything else. And YouTube has now YouTube shorts.

Look at this.

Which is again just the copying of what TikTok is up to.

Can you reap? So I want to validate, of course what you're saying. My wonderful social media helper said, look, it's got to be reels, it's got to be under 60 seconds. So yep, we're doing it. And the. The one two weeks ago got 22,000 views. It's fun to watch something go but exactly. So agree that you could use the content from TikTok and upload it as a YouTube short.

Yes. But not a literal upload. And what I mean by that is that if you create a TikTok and download it to your iPhone and then try to upload it to another platform, it. It will have the little TikTok.

We don't want that.

Yeah, that's going to look weird. But the essence of the content. Yes. Could be replicated to other platforms.

So helpful.

Okay, I think I'm getting it now. If you could go back to.

Do you want me to share why you shouldn't be on TikTok? On the flip side, as a counter argument.

Yes.

So as a small business owner, you do have limited resources in just how much you can do. Like yes, the answer is beyond everything and post five times a day. In an ideal world, not all of.

Us have a team of social media support. Yeah, that's a team.

I would say it's then an evaluation of who is your avatar. If your avatar is trending younger that a hundred percent TikTok. If you're trying to influence Gen Z in their career decisions like that is the platform to be on or even teenagers, whatever it is. But if you were trying to influence, you know, 55 to 70 year old moms, TikTok is probably not the platform just speaking out loud. Unless you are trying to market to their kids to then influence them. But that's a more advanced marketing discussion.

But Andrew, I'm glad you said this Because I want everyone to think about this. There's FOMO for me. Fear of missing out. I. My world is 35 to 55, you know, mid to high level professional women or emerging female leaders. I don't think that's the demographic psychographic of TikTok, but I see my colleagues rocking it 200,300 and I'm like, I'm missing out. Well, don't, don't. You isn't part of your message, rein in your fomo. You can't do everything. Is that right?

Reign in your FOMO and just be aware that eventually, over time, TikTok is going to have an older demographic. So I say that because it would be supportive if it's not right now, but in six months from now, you're starting to take some moves because just think about. I'll give this example too. Facebook used to be college kids trying to hook up with each other. Now Facebook is our grandma's and our older parents communicating with their friends. So just think about that, how Facebook has transformed in a decade. So TikTok might be teens right now, but eventually the older people are going to start to migrate to the platform. So just be aware, like literally at this moment in time, it might not have your demographic there, but it will eventually if TikTok sticks and who it might go out of business. It's so just volatile in the tech space. But just keep that in mind is my advice that eventually if it sticks to the platform, it will have that demographic and those people right now are taking that gamble that it is going to stick as a platform. They're getting first mover advantage in their community now where it's really cheap and affordable to do so. So it is a gamble in this, in a sense. They are devoting time and energy. They're going after first mover advantage. TikTok could go out of business in four months because of some policy, you know, the U.S. creates. Like, who knows that could happen, but they have first mover advantage.

And final thing on this, it sounds like we could take a great crafted reel that I put on Instagram reels, use that, but not upload that directly. If it has logos on it, you repurpose. We could repurpose. Correct. We could take that, upload it to TikTok, you know, without doing a lot of customization. Is that right?

Correct. So valuable now as a starting point. Yeah. There's, you know, TikTok influencers who have ridiculous videos that I'm sure it's like super customized and whatnot, but at Basic level to get in. You could. You could do that.

Okay. You know, another thing, for anyone listening who's a little older. I'm 62 now. I can't even say it. You know, what's a real difference, Andrew, Tell me if you see this. For me, I'm wanting it all to be perfect. I'm wanting the lighting. Right. No, throw the stuff up on a selfie.

Right.

In fact, I don't know. I haven't. You tell me. We're so used to and comfortable with the informal that the very, you know, heavy production value. I don't think it flies as well. Does it on, like a TikTok or an Instagram?

No, the more just authentic content you can create. Just selfie style, too. Uh, is even better.

Oh, my. You. Do you give a course. We're gonna. At the end, everyone is gonna. I'm gonna tell people, where the heck do we learn from you? Look how much we learned in 20 minutes. All right, what's the next thing?

Let me also say that, too. Is that a lot of my. I'm on TikTok now and I'm just experimenting with stuff. It's not even like I have a massive community, but I spend a lot of time just studying the platform. So I would say as homework for everyone, if I was their professor, I would say spend 10 hours in July, just download the app and see what's going on. That's what I tell anyone who's hesitant. But they are a marketer or business owner. I just put in their cord and just say, spend 10 hours of your life instead of watching Netflix, and you can easily spend 10 hours watching the Streamy Blinders.

I turn off Peaky Blinders. Yeah. But now, isn't there another problem? That tracking is a huge issue. You're going to talk about. Figure out your tracking. But I mean, these apps know what you like. So, for instance, I saw huskies like Graham, the way they bark, they're speaking. And I. All of a sudden, that's all I have on my Instagram reels. Huskies, I mean, on the. What would you call it on the feed. So how would you tell people to. Should they follow the 20 people that are top competitors and see what they're doing, who have a big following? How do they do that? Understand what I'm asking?

That's the simplest thing, is just to figure out whose brand you want to be like and follow them and study their content. If you don't want the voice tracking, which you were mentioning, that is one of the iOS 14 updates where if you hit no to that, you shouldn't get ads to you based upon stuff like that. I will if I hit.

If I didn't hit no. And now it's coming. But I want to change. Like you mentioned this before. No, I don't want you doing this. No, I don't. Can you go back into the settings of the app and change that? No. Probably.

I'm actually not sure. I know if you delete the app and reinstall it that it will repopulate that question at the very onset. So that there could be. I just haven't looked around in my iPhone. But I know for sure if you delete the app, reinstall it, it will ask you that question.

Will you delete all your stuff, all the content you've posted?

No, you just have to re log back in to your account.

Beautiful.

Thank you.

Look how much we're learning now. Figure out your tracking. Oh, no. I'm afraid of what you're going to tell me that I'm not doing. What am I supposed to be doing here?

So this is if you are getting into Facebook advertising. So like I mentioned, because of iOS 14 and tracking, it's not as clear from an advertising standpoint of I spent this and this is what's coming back in revenue to my brand. There are a few things that we do with all of our clients. So I'm just going to throw out a bunch of techy terms that people can go and research on their own. So one is getting Google Analytics set up would be important. Google Tag Manager, you can create custom utms on all of your campaigns.

Tell people what a UTM is.

What is it? So many acronyms. Unique tracking. Unique tracking.

We'll have to look it up. All right, that's your homework, people. You better figure it out. We don't know what it is, but you got to do it. All right, go ahead.

You could also have a advanced software like a Wicked Reports and then we are just starting to analyze a software called capi into our campaigns.

Capi? No.

Yes.

Okay.

Capi. So what we really have to do on all of our campaigns is that we have to manually cross reference our data. So whatever Facebook is saying is this is the revenue that we produced, it's going to be higher or lower. We have no idea why the variance isn't consistent. We just know it's going to be wrong. So we have to manually figure out with what we call the truth of revenue. So organizations need to figure out where actually can they trust their data. And this is the actual revenue for their business as it's not Facebook anymore. And that could be maybe your CRM like infusionsoft. It could be wicked reports. It could be literally your bank account. That'd be up to the business to figure it out. And then we need to cross reference Facebook in that and just figure out what actually is revenue.

Wow.

At your organization.

I mean what, what my mind is going to here is nobody can really do this who's not a marketing expert like it used to be. I don't think we did it well but I could because I was in. It was called direct marketing 20 years ago. But I know what a split test is. I know you know, so I could create a Facebook ad campaign. It wasn't good if you know, but I could do it. What you're describing things are so technical. You really need to hire people, don't you? Or a person, don't you?

Yes. And that was actually a big learning lesson I had last summer with which changed our business model. So what I mean by that is I believed it really put advertisers in one or two buckets. I believe you either became an advertiser who can lead client strategy or you're an advertiser who's behind the scenes. I believe there were a lot of advertisers who were truly more engineer behind the scenes people who were leading client strategy. And after iOS 14, I think they not they didn't get called out. Just their true skills were revealed because of the advanced tracking and everything you could apply and retargeting your campaigns. Just the results were so good. You weren't needing to think as holistically with how does a Facebook advertising campaign tie into my whole business model. And there's just a lot more you need to think through between the entire customer journey, financial modeling, just the, even the sheer customer service of dealing with a frustrated client because things were just going so well for so long. Who's going to get mad at you when they give you a dollar and you give two back to their business. But then now you need to go through just the customer service of they're saying they gave you a dollar and only 0.5% came back in revenue. Then you to explain to them, well actually if I cross referenced your backend data it was actually 1.5.

And so this is not, this is not boding well for the average mind that wants to try to do this on a shoestring.

You know.

So with this too I, I know of a lot of advertisers who are not touching Facebook anymore because of everything I just mentioned. And I, we actually hire now a team of fractional CMOs who start off our client projects specifically. So there's that senior level support to, you know, have a one, two punch with an advertiser on campaign style.

Amazing. What a service. All right, let's go. We have just a few more minutes. Learn the difference between brand marketing and sales. And you know, I'm doing some rebranding of my own business and you know, you know me, people, I'm transparent. When you're writing this stuff yourself. Look, I had, Let me just be clear. Several consultants said, I don't really know what you do. I'm like, you don't know what I do? When you type in woman's career coach in Google, I am the first result under the ads. I'm like, how do you not know what I do? Because we're so ensconced in ourselves. Right. What they meant is when I go to your homepage, I don't know, I don't, I don't have a clear understanding of the, of what you do, the services. So I go back to look like, humph. Well, there it is. There's my TED talk from 2016, Andrew. I didn't update my homepage and I've pivoted now, you know, it's career and leadership coaching. It's emerging female professionals and leaders as well as seasoned. But you know, the, the cautionary tale here is you have to look at your stuff as if, as if you're a brand new person who's never heard of the name Kathy Caprino. Not that everyone in the planet has, but you know what I mean, the people in my sphere who are looking for a career coach tend to know my name. So what's interesting is I'm saying this because there is branding that is separate from marketing. I mean, they're all, you know, infused. If your branding isn't strong, if that message about why me? Who am I? What do I deliver, what's the pain point? Isn't strong. Your marketing isn't going to be strong. So. Right, tell us. That's, that's my take. Tell us what you mean about branding, marketing and sales.

So let me give the example in relation to our business. And I'm actually terrible at branding.

How many skills can one have? I mean, yeah, you have a focus and it's not that. Right. So you're terrible with your own business. Or don't hire you for branding.

Don't hire me as an individual to do branding for you. So what I mean by this is so Google Adwords. That is straight up sales. It's someone's typing a Google career coach. You come up, here's an order form by. That's, that's the extent of it. Sales would be as well if you have a cold outreach campaign for B2B stuff and you're going in for the sale like instantaneously. So, and I'll bring this back to our organization and how I differentiate the two of that. We actually as a business, and this is our 10th year of operation, we actually don't do a lot of outreach sales in whether it be May of 2022 was the first time in our company history we actually did outbound sales and cold email campaigns approaching businesses. Oh, business has always come to us and that's because we have really a really strong brand. And I'll give a more specific example too. So this more, and I consider this to be a lot of your reputation as a business and a business owner. This morning I went and drove, you know, 45 minutes out of my way to meet up with a client for coffee and had an hour long dialogue with her. So I consider that to be part of the branding in terms of how I'm just building reputation and rapport and trust with people. And then at the end of the conversation she had said, you know, why don't you, you know, figure out an equity deal for our organization which you could take a percent or take a percent of the upside with some stuff we're going to work on together in a couple of months. So, and I kind of bring that back to that is that that came to me because of the rapport, the reputation of what we're producing. And I didn't actually even approach this dialogue with her for an equity deal. She came to meet with it. So I think when you have reputation, you have good branding, good marketing, that's getting your business out there in a really genuine and authentic manner. It allows the business to come to you versus you having to be on the hunt, going door to door, prospecting people 100%.

100%. Where does that not hold up? I think you and I were talking a few weeks ago when I was sharing. I'm going through a bit of a pivot. I'm still going to support the wonderful individual women who come to me, but the pivot is why don't I do this very same work and have organizations pay. But it's a different story, it's a different message, it's different pain Points, you don't just pivot. So, you know, I am going to start. For instance, I don't know if you know all about it. LinkedIn, sales navigator. I'm going to.

Yes.

Are you an expert? Maybe I'll hire you.

Andrew, a gentleman in our team does Sales and Navigator work for our clients. And I think it's a tremendous way to find people or organizations that you're trying to get in touch with.

You just signed up another client. Here I. Here I come. Awesome. But what in terms of branding, marketing and sales is your key point there? That and I would have to agree if this is it, first you have to do good. First you have to be an organization or a team that really delivers. And you know what? You also can't be all about what's in it for me. I've learned this the hard way. Like when money isn't flowing, we start to be a little desperate. And I know for me, we've talked about this. Probably I'm pitched something like 500 times a month because can I be on your podcast?

Can I be in Forbes?

You get a little jaded because everybody wants something, right? So for me, I won't say you all, but for me, it's so transactional. What's coming at me, that sometimes I am thinking, what's in it for me if I do something? And that is just not a happy place. It's not a successful place. So your point or your lesson? You went out of your way to be of service because that's who you are. I mean, we. You call me up, you know, once a year and go, let's get on the phone. How can we help each other? But you can't do. You can't do anything more potent in building your brand than do good and be generous and don't be transactional, which just. Just transactional.

What do you think about what I'm saying here?

Yeah, I mean, that's exactly it. So even when I reach out to connect with you, it's. I'm asking you, how can I make an intro for you that would be supportive. So for, for our podcast, actually, what I do is at the end of the episode, I have another call and then I ask the person, you know, what are some pain points going on in your business and who can I connect you with?

So you do that.

It's the whole Gary Vaynerchuk what it says book, like jab, jab, right hook, whatever. That's a very kind of masculine way of. I don't even know what that Is.

Yes, I do.

Yeah. You know, for instance, I think it's. It is some of the unscalable activities that allow you to scale your business. So, for instance, over holidays, I write handwritten thank you cards to, you know, I think I did 150. Hopefully you got one last. Okay, okay.

I was going to be getting a little 150. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't get one now I did. And it was. It's meaningful. Who does that now, you know?

Yeah, my wrist hurts at the end of that couple of day process. So it's stuff like that that is much more giving than taking. And if, you know, once you have that rapport built with people over years, if you ever do have a need that you do need support with, it's not going to feel Taki. It's going to be like, oh, he or she's supported me and never asked anything returned for. However, for many months, years, it's been like, of course I'll jump in and help.

Oh, and that sums it up. How beautiful. So we're at the end of our time. I want to ask you, where can we learn? Soak up all that deliciousness? But is there anything else that you want to leave people with small business owners who are like, what? I don't even understand what he just said. You know, I'm so over my head. You know, what is the first step for someone who understands I need more business, More business that's aligned with what I want to do. Serving people. I want to help. And you know, that might even be a place to begin. Sometimes small business owners don't even know the answer to that question. And I didn't 20, 15 years ago. Like, I want to sell. I want to help everybody.

No. So I have a simple answer. Go to YouTube.com type in your question and watch 10 hours of videos that answer it.

Yes, but some of them are horrible.

You might need to do some extra due diligence and find the right ones. But.

Or follow Andrew and what you follow. Right.

Well, Gary Vaynerchuk, I follow Jonah. Give some resources of marketing people I follow.

That would be amazing.

I would say Gary Vaynerchuk, that's a good one. Digital marketer has a ton of really great resources. HubSpot has a really cool podcast.

Yeah, I know.

I'll just leave you with three I want to.

Wonderful.

That'd be a great starting point.

I love it. All right, now where do we go to learn more about you and you? Do you have a course that teaches small Business owners, you know, soup to nuts. The beginning steps, we actually do.

I don't know if I told you about this. We're. We just started licensing it to organizations and we don't really have a direct to consumer version. I'm sure if someone emailed me we'd figure out a price point, more or less.

Figure it out.

Yeah. It's called the School for Humanity and it's. We probably have around 8 to 10 ish hours of video content related to what we call customer acquisition. So Facebook ads, copy landing pages, how to sell via via webinars that we do have available. But like I said, we're more planning to license it to masterminds and chamber of commerces and networking associations. I'd say the best way to learn more is just Simply going to notypicalmoments.com you should see our podcast there. Way to subscribe to our newsletter. All the links to our social channels will be there. That's the best way to connect with us and learn more.

I love it. And what's the one social media app we should be following you on?

I would say LinkedIn.

LinkedIn. There we go. My cocktail party in the sky. I learned so much. Thank you for being always so generous. I can tell you know your wish is to just give us as much information as possible. If that leads to a new client, wonderful. Bravo. But you're not just hunting, you know, eyes peeled for the next sale, which you know, sadly, many do. Thank you for all the great work you do. So great to have you come back again.

Thank you Kathy. Appreciate it.

Take care. All right everybody, I bet you're going to have questions. If you don't have questions, I don't think we're doing our job. So connect with Andrew on LinkedIn. Not that maybe you're going to get deluged. He'll do his best to respond. So wherever you see this on any app, any social media app, please ask your question or let us know. What did you get out of this? And even more importantly, what benefit did it give you? We would love to hear that. All right everyone have a wonderful week and thank you again, Andrew. Bye. Hi everyone. Kathy here.

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