278: What People’s Behavior Reveals About What You Can Expect From Them, with Robin Dreeke

Think about who it is you get excited about when they walk through that door, or when you see their cell phone number pop up on a cell phone and you see their name pop up on an email and you just get so excited because you know it's going to be a great conversation. And then ask yourself, am I that person for someone else? And then what behaviors makes it so? And then ask yourself, are those behaviors that I have when I'm being that person for someone else?

Hello everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast, Finding. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life, to rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful and meaningful life, business and career.

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Thanks so much. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Find your Brave. I feel like it's been months since I've done this and it actually hasn't. It's been two weeks, but I think that a lot has happened in two weeks, including a big snowstorm but anyway, this is coming to you in March. I hope you're doing well. I hope the weather's been good to you and I hope you're excited to dig in with us on a lot of things. But what we're going to be focusing on with the amazing Robin Drake, who I've had on the show before. And boy, did I get a lot of comments and amazing feedback from that episode, which we'll link to below. But we are talking about all things communication, but in particular what people's behavior reveals about what you can expect from them. And Robin is an amazing expert on this. Thank you for joining me in the midst of family and birthdays and Valentine's Day. Thank you, Robin. So happy to have you here.

Oh, my gosh, Kathy, it's so amazing to be chatting together again. And you know, it's going to be a great conversation as you're doing the beautiful introduction and intro to the show. I got goosebumps all up and down my arms right now, you know, because, oh yeah, when you get excited to see someone and that's a great question to ask yourself and anyone can ask themselves, you know, think about, yeah, here I go already. Right? Think about this. And actually, Robin Sharma wrote this in one of his great books. He said think about who it is you get excited about when they walk through that door or when you see their cell phone number pop up on a cell phone, you see their name pop up on an email. And, and you just get so excited because you know it's going to be a great conversation. And then ask yourself, am I that person for someone else? And then what behaviors makes it so? And then ask yourself, are those behaviors that I have when I'm being that person for someone else?

Oh, my goodness. I have so much to even ask you about right now about that. But before we do that, can I tell people, wow, I have questions, a lot of questions. But I want people to know who you are and I want to give a brief intro and then I have to ask a question. Robin, I have to put on my glasses. Robin Drake is a renowned. Are you a time author now?

Will be in October.

Yes, I, I admire that. A retired FBI agent, keynote speaker and trusted adviser to businesses, and brings his exceptional, truly exceptional skill set and expertise in behavioral analysis to the corporate world. This bio can go on forever. So because this, you have done so much. But I'll keep it brief. With a distinguished career that includes serving as the chief of the counterintelligence behavioral analysis program. Yike. Robin has honed his ability to navigate complex social dynamics and build unbreakable alliances based on trust. It goes on more I want you to read the show notes people, but we'll leave it at that as a teaser. But Robin, let me ask something here. It's Valentine's Day that we're doing this and I love to do things that are a little counter to what the the world loves to do. So today I posted a poll on LinkedIn about instead of focusing, sure, give your gifts and your flowers and your cars and love the people that you love. But what about self love? So I asked folks to vote in a poll on what one thing from the list of four below. I can only have four on LinkedIn. Do you think it would be most helpful and healing for you to have right now? And it was patience with myself, acceptance of myself, forgiveness of myself. And what's the fourth? I'll have to post it below. I can't remember right now, but I bring it up because so many people I work with do not have self love to the degree that would make their life more joyful, rewarded, successful, impactful, healthy. So I say all this because when you said are you that person for someone else? How many? I don't mean to be all judgy and mean. I mean I'm a former therapist, as you know, and the work you've done you it was therapeutic work or deep work, that's for sure. Do you think the vast majority of us are self aware enough to or healthy enough to in fact, number one, know if we are that person sense if we are not that person and number three, do something about it right away? That's a big question a hundred hours long. But what do you think?

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. And as you've already said with me, there's a lot to unpack in that question alone, in that reflection. I wouldn't even call it a question. It's a reflection because that's what this requires, to give ourselves what we really need. And what you said and all that is so true and so beautiful and so needed, it all comes wrapped up in shame. We have toxic shame. Some shame is good, a little bit because it keeps us on the straight and narrow from doing important things to ourselves and others. But when we have toxic shame, where we are so horrible at judging ourselves worse than we judge anyone else, and it destroys our psychology, it destroys our inner peace and when you do that, it destroys us physically, I mean many, many of our illnesses. If you want to go to Eastern philosophy of Health you know, many of our illnesses are caused by ourselves from all this toxic shame that we harbor inside. And the other many parts of your question on that self awareness factor. You know, Tasha Yurik wrote a great book called Insight and talks about the science behind self awareness. And even people that claim to be highly self aware are not. It's a journey. You know, self awareness is a journey. But I think all journeys truly, truly begin. I mean, you can't help it to be on a journey. It's just how fast and what tempo and pace that journey is progressing. But you start picking up tempo when you start asking yourselves those deep questions like that. When you start asking yourself and really being present, not just for yourself, but the entire world around you. And you engage life without an agenda. You engage life without an agenda. When you're talking to someone, just be present. And then you can really take in the affect and effect of everything you're doing and everything around you is doing. And when you then reflect on a great, powerful, healthy emotion of love, comfort and, and the bedrock of everything, feeling safe with someone. And when you light up, like I said, when someone walks into your life or an event happens, your life, ask your, let's get granular on that. Ask yourself what. Because what is a great thing to do? Not why, because why. We can get really subjective on, but if you ask yourself a what question? What specifically did that person do? What specifically does that person say? What specifically are they bringing to this relationship? That inspires me to feel that way and that makes us reflect, it makes us really focus on the behavior of others, the things they're doing. And then you can reverse it. And that's where that self awareness factor comes in. And reverse it. And you don't do so with self loathing or hate. Don't get down on yourself if you're not exuding those behaviors and just say, oh, I could do better here, I could do more here. Not better. Better is a horrible word. I can do more here to add that, those behaviors to myself. Because each of us has gifts. Each of us has this greatness and this capacity for compassion and love to give others. Sometimes it gets locked down in our own trauma that we've experienced and sometimes we're fearful of expressing it because we fear being vulnerable to others. We fear being transparent. We fear being open. Which by the way are the three bedrock behaviors of trust.

Say them again. Say them again.

Open eyes, communication and transparency. Honesty, Invulnerability. It takes courage. That's why I, I love it. You have to find Your brave to show those things. But when you do, you take that first step and you let go of that ego, vanity and our sense of insecurities, and you demonstrate to others that you're trustworthy.

All right, let me ask. Let me dig in. Now, this is what's so fun about interviewing. If you had 500 other interviewers, they're going to go in a direction that smacks to them what they need to know, you know, But I'm going to go where I want others to know and I want to know.

Yes, yes, yes.

I am by no means here saying I'm a saint. I'm not. But something happened yesterday that I think ties into what you're talking about. You're going to have a lot to say about it. So sometimes, excuse me, when I have a little too much coffee, I'm a little wound up. And I'm Greek and Italian. You like the, you know, here we go. The arms are flailing.

I'm with you. Me, my coffee. Yes, I'm with you.

I really cannot have this much coffee before a coaching session. But I had a session and I watched it later. I recorded, I record it. And during it, what happened is the person was defensive. There was defensiveness. Well, and everything. I was. So when I coach, I'm also consultant, but so I'm directive. But this is what I think you should do. This was what would happen. And there was a lot of pushback while other people said not to or my community said not to or why do I need to do that? Pushing, pushing. And my coffee mode made me push up against the pushing. I know you know exactly what I'm talking. And then I went, I took a breath and I said. And I said out loud, I feel that you're getting defensive, which I know is me making you feel that way, me doing something. What am I doing right? Or what are you feeling? And there it was. We got right to the heart of it in two seconds flat. But I feel. Tell me what you think. Anytime I'm having a. A serious conflict with someone, one or both of us is not willing to ask that question. What, what is my 50% of this? What do you think about that whole situation? That, I mean, we do bring our foibles and our. And our gaps and our challenges. So we're not going to be saints.

Every minute of the day.

We're human beings. We've got a lot of. But do you see it the way I do, that we are 50% of every relationship, not more, not less.

What do you think 100%. You, you did the critical thing. As I'm telling you for those listening, Kathy did the critical thing we all need to do. Own it.

Yeah.

You know, you just gotta own it. And, and, and I have no. So part of your question is, is it 50 50? Yes. A healthy relationship is a. I call it a balanced equation. And balanced equations are also perception. You know, if one person has a perception that the equation is balanced at 50 50, but the other person says, no, no, it's unbalanced. It doesn't matter what you think at 50 50, what matters is what the other person thinks. If you want to come to center on this. And then you have to ask yourself, am I willing to have a deeper conversation to understand their context from their perspective about why it's unbalanced from their perception? Because perceptions are perceptions. There's very, very few things that are true and real. Everything is a context and perception. I mean, it is true and real that you and I are chatting with each other, but your view and perception of me is completely different on my own right now. Maybe not completely, but it's off, you know, because we all have our own experiences. Confirmation biases group by all our things that impact how we see the world through our context and perception, affects how we interact with everyone and affects how I see a relationship as balanced or unbalanced and the other person too. So it's ability to, to do the hardest thing in the world of let go or ego or vanity. Our insecurities, which the other person you're talking with was flaring up. Their flare. Their insecurities are flaring up because you're, you're hitting trauma responses, you know, from them. And you, but you owned it. I was causing you out of a trauma response through a word or a phraseology that I was using that kind of flared up your own insecurities that you had a sense of need to kind of prove yourself to me by the words I was saying and pushing back because you can't admit your own. We have a hard time of seeing the world in any other way, seeing ourselves in another way that's positive because that would damage us. We fear that damage. But yeah, we got to dig deep on seeing how the other person sees that relationship and then ask yourselves, because there is no right or wrong to that either. Are we willing to engage them deeper to allow them to feel it is 5050 and do I keep my 5050 when they keep their 50 50? In other words, can we each balance it from our own context and our own Perceptions.

So there was so much there. I'm hanging onto a thread here.

It's called a narrative answer. Way too much.

Perfect. When I feel like I'm coming to an impasse is I think you're helping me try to figure this out. And I hope you all listening will do the same. When it's a real angry impasse or, you know, whatever emotion you want, it's because I feel I'm bending over backwards offering my responsive. My where I'm responsible, but they won't do the same.

It's.

It's kind of like, you know, in. When I was a marriage and family therapist, it's. It's the age old comment often the husband saying, I had to haul off and hit her. She made me do it. Oh. Oh, God, she made me do it. Don't make me hit you. Don't make me do this. Don't make me walk out on you. But is that what you're talking about? That and you were before we pressed record. I want to go back to that conversation about the serial killer. But is that what you're referring to in some way? That if you're with a person who won't take any of it, won't take any responsibility of meeting you halfway, I mean, a therapeutic mind would say, you know, there's trauma there that. That's making their bandwidth for holding themselves responsible very small. Am I making sense?

Yes. Complex question with complex answers. But it's not. It's so funny. It is, but it's not. Okay, the part that is, is that it's all these different perceptions of that reality of the moment. That's the complex part. The simple part to me is this from the other. I do these things called, you know, Einstein talks about it and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. The thought experiment. You do a thought experiment where literally this is the power of. Of tremendous empathy. Reverse it. You are the other person. And if you're to be that other person receiving the information from you that I am not bending over backwards enough to make this relationship work, would those words resonate? Would you actually think. You're not doing that.

Oh, say it again, Robin. Say that again. I'm not getting it.

So if you're the other person.

Okay, I'm thinking of the person who I just have had a big problem.

So. So we'll call them Jan. So Kathy's talking to Jan, right. Kathy is saying to herself, jan is not doing enough for this relationship. I'm the one bending over backwards to make this work. And she's not Doing jack crap to.

Do that or she's not admitting her part of why I'm hurt. Something like that.

Right now be Jan.

Okay. I'm. I'm asking myself right in this moment.

To be Jan. Yeah, you are now Jan. Yeah.

Jan has a completely different view. You're always so hard on me. You, you fly off the handle. You're emotional.

Right?

I didn't do anything. Why are you getting so hysterical? That's good.

And so that's empathy. That is literally seeing the world through Jam's optic, Jan's lens and not judging it, because that's Jan. Jan doesn't think she's a bad person. Jan's doing the best Jan can with the, with the tools that she has in those moments. And that's what you're part of her life to do, is to see if she and further those tools and walk that path. Now the question ask ourselves now, now back here being Kathy again in those moments. A healthy relationship to me is really again going to really simple here. Does a relationship cause in you resentment or not?

Yes, it is.

Then we walk away. Then we disengage. I don't, I don't do crazy. So. But here's the challenge. If you can now see through the pain, trauma and all the things that are causing Jan to act that way and you can let go of your resentment and be a resource for her, be there for her to see. If she's willing to start walking a path together to help her through the inappropriate behavior, well, then I'm willing to engage because I won't have resentment over that. I never have resentment over anyone walking their path. I, I will start getting resentment and not want to engage with someone who wants to continue unhealthy and isn't curious about how do I be healthy, isn't curious about balancing. I don't mind unbalanced equations in relationships. They happen all the time. I mean, to have perfect harmony and balance, you know, rare. That is, it's extremely rare and it constantly fluctuates. What is less rare and more enjoyable to be around is someone who's trying and curious about how to continually balance that equation when. When it becomes unbalanced because I'm taking a little bit more than I realized today. But you let me know. You know, Robin, you're a little off today. Oh, I'm so sorry. Let me recalibrate for you. That's someone I want to engage with. And so it really comes down to. Let's go back to Jan again. Is Jan curious about walking that path is Jan. Well, then.

Well, there's. There are some people that you kind of can't walk away from.

We have those in our lives as well. Then we just have to understand them. Doesn't mean you agree with them. We have to understand that's where they're at.

And when we go so far as to say we are responsible for whether we feel resentment or not.

Yes. They're not doing anything to you. They're just being who they are.

Right.

So that to that point, I can be mad all I want, I can be resentful all I want. Why do I have this right in my life? Okay, well, maybe there's a reason you have this. So, so basically we're saying it's a lot of internal work. It's a lot of looking at what is really going on, how we're contributing to it and how we want to hold it. Oh, Lord. It's a lot.

I guess I call it. I said I love the show of life. It is a beautiful show. It is. It's a beautiful show. So this comes down to our own personal philosophies and views on who we are and. Or not in this life. I see this as a beautiful mechanism by which my soul can witnesses place in. And so part of that is everyone is doing the best they can to learn the lessons they're here to learn. If I can be a resource for it and forge great alliances based on trust. Because literally we are here to do it together. We're not born into this place alone. We're here to do it together. And so part of the great experiment and the great path we are all on is how can we do it together and program and it's beautiful. It is. And, and it sounds pie in the sky, altruistic and everything, but it. But yet part of the fun is work. We don't, I mean, think so go back to our biological and genetic upbringings as a species. We don't thrive in. In abundance. We are horrible in abundance. Look at the world right now. I mean, the world generally turns into chaos when we have abundance.

Why is that?

Because genetically we are not predisposed to abundance. We're predisposed to stress, to anxiety, to. To basically deal with a little bit of deprivation every day. So we have something to overcome. We have something to hope for, we have something to move towards. And so when we have a little bit of deprivation, it forces us to collaborate, it forces us to innovate. In order to innovate, we have to feel safe. We have to work Together. And so when we feel safe, we have trust, we can collaborate and work together and form alliances. That's when we advance. That's when we can actually come into flow. That's when we can actually see the world through a very positive optic and lens. I mean, think about the most positive times in the history of our, of our species. Post World War II, right after post 9, 11, post pandemic. It's when we actually face insurmountable odds of crazy. And we collectively came together and we rose above, but every time we rise above, we start hitting abundance. And then the world goes crazy again. And so it's always remembering. I mean, I'm a former Marine, and it's one of the laughing things in the Marine Corps is the Marine Corps is always underfunded. And I said, I think it's intentional. Because one of the reasons, one of the things the Marines are known for is we can do anything with nothing. Why? Because they have life reps. We have a reputation as an organization of being in constant state of deprivation. So we always have to innovate to solve the problem.

So, I mean, you were a former Marine.

Yeah, and so think about. Yeah, and so think about this too. Think about the companies that have really gone and surged above. They were the ones that were in such dire straits of almost going bankrupt, but they came together, they collected. Instead of placing the burden on the employees and firing employees. I mean, Simon Sinek writes in all his books, Leaders Eat Last and the Infinite Game. And you start with, why is that the companies that have thrived are not the ones that took it out on the employees by firing them. They're the ones that everyone took a pay cut to stay together, to innovate. Because you form that circle of safety where people feel trusted. That's when you innovate. That's when people feel safe. Because people have invested in failure. We know we're going to fail. But if you're going to fail, fail fast and move forward. I know I've got a lot of different tangents here.

Oh, my gosh. I did not prep you for this. And maybe this is too sensitive to talk about, but I got tears in my eyes when you said abundance versus, you know, deprivation. I, I sometimes talk out loud in my apartment and say, when I read about war every single day, how is it that we think it's a solution by killing people? I don't get it. How, how did we get here that killing so many? To me, it is the last resort. I don't understand.

It's A very tough thing to understand.

Do you have given your counterintelligence and your, your deep military and other governmental work, do you have a, an understanding of, is the, you know, eruption of war in any way connected to that statement you made that if there is abundance, then there's chaos and then it can lead to.

There's a lot of, I think there's a lot of things that play into war and death in our society. There's the genetic and biological impulse as a, as a, as a species, a genetic organism on this planet, every single organism is battling for resources. That is, that's the primal part of why we go to war. Because someone else has it and I don't. I want it. When you have individuals that are more primal in their thought processes. When we start dealing with psychopathy and narcissists at that high level, Granted, I'm not a licensed clinician, so I don't throw around terms of art like that. But, you know, in generalizations, when you start dealing with individuals like that that have a lack of ability to realize the impact of their actions on others because they don't care, they're pro, pure predator like wolves, like psychopathy are, and they become leaders of organizations and countries and someone else has resources they want, they're just going to take them. They're just going to battle and take them. So that's one reason for war. Then you have the political reasons for war. Where my beliefs are the right beliefs, your beliefs are the wrong beliefs, Then you have the. As I was talking to you before we started, I, I love reading history. I love reading biographies especially. And if I don't understand a certain thing that's going on in the world, first thing I do is I read everything I can about it. And so in the US Right now, we have Black History Month. On my long list of people I've read this past year has been Mahatma Gandhi's autobiography. And right now I'm reading Nelson Mandela's Long Walk to Freedom. And we all heard about Nelson Mandela, I think, growing up in school. But when you get granular on his autobiography that is 29 hours long that I've been listening to, and you hear the true apartheid system and the laws that were so incredibly unjust. I mean, I mean, it, it makes the Jim Crow laws in the United States look like nothing comparative to apartheid in South Africa. And you understand another reason why people go to war for freedom, for feeling of safety. So there's a lot of complex reasons. And then just recently, you had. Vladimir Putin gave The interview with Tucker Carlson, which some people lambast, some people won't. Everyone will say Putin was nothing but lying. He's exaggerating, blah, blah. Okay. But what you also got was a context of Putin, of how see the world through his optic. And you know how he sees the world. He's a victim. He sees it as he's being victimized. Everyone's victimizing Russia. And so he's fighting against. Against victimization, which is at the core what we go back to. He doesn't feel safe. Doesn't matter whether I think it's true or not from his perspective. He's not safe. His country's not safe. Who is always going to battle against people, go to war because he doesn't feel safe.

And in his mind, I don't know him. It's probably, I need to protect all the people in my country that also feel unsafe as I do. Right.

That's what he says to himself.

Thank you for explaining that. So interesting.

Holy crap.

Now, can you go back to what we were talking about before we pressed record if you think it's, you know, relevant here about the individual in jail who's depressed?

Yeah. So we were talking, and this goes to what I was saying. I was just on a show a little while ago. I do a lot of true crime commentary, which is kind of funny to me just because I'm not a true crime guy, but I'm human behavior guy. And so true crime falls under human behavior, obviously. Anyway, there's a case going on right now, Rex Heuerman. He is an accused serial killer out of Long island, accused now of four murders and maybe countless more that have taken place in Long Island. Anyway, he's behind bars. He has had. Whether he's guilty of the serial murders or not is becoming more and more well documented. His really abhorrent behavior he's had towards women to sex workers, I mean, it's been really, really. This is really disgusting behavior by a human being. But part of this is he's behind bars right now, separated from his estranged wife, and he's now getting counseling from. For depression and being lonely, which some people that are seen and accused serial killer. And all these things are like, good. He should be. He should be lonely and screw him. He shouldn't get counseling. And then you have people say, well, how come there's people on the outside not getting that kind of counseling that need it? And then you have others that are like, screw him. What's interesting, kind of going to what I was just reading in Nelson Mandela's book. And he has got another quote I'm going to read here in a second, too, which is pretty profound because he said this in 1959. But one thing that Nelson Mandela did was when he was jailed, and he was jailed multiple times throughout his life, was that you can always judge a country and a nation by how it treats its lowest people. And the lowest people are. It's imprisoned. And so when I saw that Heuerman was getting counseling, you know, my first impression was not screw him or anything else. I was like, good. You know, that's a court system, at least in New York, where he's getting that they recognize that someone is in pain and need, regardless of whether he committed these crimes or not. And they're treating him as a human being, even though he might not have. Even though he might not have treated others as a human being. And so I thought that was. It reflected well, I thought, on the legal system there, because you judge a country and you judge individuals, and that kind of goes to the deeper question we're talking about, about how individuals treat others. So ask yourself, you know, when you're talking about, you know, are you that person that you can't wait to see walk through that door for someone else? When you're assessing others and the people you're letting into your life, look at how they treat others, not how they're treating you, necessarily. When you go out to lunch, when you go out to a meal with someone or you go out to a social event with someone and you see a waiter or server or some other service person coming to your table, how do they treat them? Because I guarantee you that's how they're talking about you behind your back, positively or negatively. Do they tip well? Do not tip well. Do they take care of others? Do they gossip about people? Those are the things and behaviors that I'm always looking at. Because I want. First of all, I'm looking for transparency with everyone and everything. So with me, I want I and you and I talked on and off air and everything else. I mean, you and I are exactly the same people with each other, no matter what we're doing, for who, wherever, because we're completely transparent and open. And that's what I'm looking for. That's what we should all be looking for in healthy relationships in our lives. And so assessing others by how they treat others is a. Is a good way to kind of see where they're at on that path, not by judging them as being wrong. They shouldn't do that. It's just where they're at on their path and same thing, you know. So the Nelson Mandela thing came up just because I just read it and then here we are as a country treating Lisa nuisance. I know people will lambast our court system, our justice system, our prison system and all that but hey, there's an instance of someone needed help and is getting help and especially when you compare it again, you don't want to get caught up in the cult of comparison a disease of of more as I call it. But it's not bad. It can be better. All these things can always be better. That's why it's a journey, not a destination that we're on but pretty good comparatively to other places.

So you know one thing that emerges for me when I talk to you, you are so well read and I think that it's an art that is disappearing a little bit in that literally our attention spans have collapsed into a one minute reel on Instagram and TikTok. But I can see how much reading explodes ideas in your mind and I'm sure what we attend to is what we already have on our radar typically. So I think it reinforces everything, you know. But what I love about it is even the quotes that you choose tell me if I'm wrong but I think they're the things that make you learn ex those things that you repeat are the things that maybe you weren't as aware of the minute before you read Would you agree or seek out 100.

Matter of fact I'm going to read you that quote I so I confess I wish I could say I read, I listen whatever way you digest I'm discovered I'm an audible person. So Nelson Mandela's Long Walk to Freedom is what I'm currently reading. I I go through about 60 or 70 books a year. Wow. Because I I I walk a lot and I let listen while I walk and I take notes. I've always taken notes on the books. And so here he was so think about this 1959 and he's talking about the press. Very apropos to what we deal with today. Listen, listen. So absorb this because this is power of context and this is so important for the information we bring in and assessing the information others bring in and realizing it's a small part of the whole of the whole of who they are. So he said this beautiful thing that just makes so much sense and it's 1959 news media sheds light not on the information they provide but on the biases of those who produce it. And those who consume it.

Oh, dear.

1959. See, we think we're so unique in where we are today, in 2024. No, we're not. That's one of the reasons why I love reading, because it gives us context of. Because I hear all the time, oh, my God, the world's going to hell. No, we're not. We're actually much better today than we were a hundred years ago. Much better. Much, much better. I mean, as a species, we have conquered the big ones. And so there's another great book I love called Sapiens, and the follow on to Sapiens was Homo Deus. So Sapiens is a book about our evolution as a species and how. How we as a species has killed off everything on this planet. We had five other, you know, sisters, cousins, or whatnot that we wiped out as a species because. And also extinction events have followed where we've been as a species since we've been around on this planet with spears. I mean, we just. We cause chaos everywhere we go. It's pretty remarkable. But, but Homo deus, which takes up from the point of evolution where we left off now to where we're going in the future, really hits on. On the critical thing that we have done as a species. So for people that are feeling like, oh, my God, the world's going nuts. No, we're not. We have conquered a few things. We have conquered famine.

Oh, okay.

We haven't wiped out hunger. People go hungry. But famine from drought, from pestilence and all these things as a, as a species, famine's gone. When's the last time you heard of a drought killing off crops? And we've starved.

Isn't that happening in other countries, though?

Hunger is different than famine. Okay, so people do go hungry, but it's not because there's no food to feed them. It's because we're not getting it to them to feed them. Big difference.

I see.

All right, so that's one thing as a species we've conquered. Another one is health. Hell, our. Our genetic and biological organism, according to the Homo deus, we are engineered to be. To roughly hit 80 years old before things start falling apart. You know, granted you have centurions and things like that, but on average, 80 is the lifespan of this organism. And we have gotten medicine as a, As a band aid to generally get us to that, if you have the resources and socioeconomic status, things like that. But we have the technology to get us to that. And so we've conquered family, we've conquered that war. Believe it or not at. Even though there's Hella's chaos and even with Hamas and we have the, you know, Israel and all the wars going on in the world, by and large we don't, you know, the way that wars were waged aren't anymore. You know, the fact of having a large conventional war like World War II, where millions are wiped out, the possibility of that is extremely low. Are there going to be constant conflicts like we were talking about before? Yes, but by and charge that safety like death of violence from another human being is at an all time low of our, of our species. Even though we have these massive shootings, we have all these things that have going on that are horrendous that we see in the news are horrible. But as a species it is at an all time low. So the question that's postulated then is where, where do we go from here? That's where Homo deus comes in. We're actually trying to break beyond our bounds of 80 years old. We're trying to go for longevity. All the things that go to longevity and our science of exploration, our curiosity. So that's one another area of, of now.

This is where, my goodness, I could listen to you for hours and it's already, you know, where you go and where I go I think are very different in hearing that exact content. I really believe, you know, okay people, hang on to your hat. I believe we have many lives and I believe we choose our lives. I believe we'll have many more. Okay, you believe that too?

Yep.

I, I'm sitting here thinking if this is the best we are, we've got. How would I put this? It's not good enough. And I look, I don't want to die tomorrow, don't get me wrong, but I look forward to another incarnation where the species aren't as low functioning as we are today.

The best is yet to come. So if you look at the, the speed of our advancement of our self awareness. What was the book I just read actually talked about all this? Oh my Lord, I read everything. I gotta pull it up on my notes real quick. Oh, the Seat of the Soul by Gary Zukoff. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, it talks all about this. Absolutely. And you know, I've also read everything by Eckhart Tolle, you know, the Power of Now, the New Earth. I'm a big reader of the Dao de Ching.

Must be very full of ideas.

Man's search for hap, man's search for happiness, you know, the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu talking together. That was A beautifully well done book.

Well, I'm sure it's inspiring because it, it pulls us out of the here and now, which can, can appear very bleak without the context of how far we've gone. All right. Wow. Final question.

Great show. This, that's why this place that we are inhabiting. It's a beautiful show. We do our part in it and it's. We're going, we're on our way to a great place.

I love it.

Any last words about, you know, the title I think is going to be, you know, how people show who they really are. Any final words about how we can determine who we want in our circle of life, in our finding brave community that makes us grow and learn and love life and be the best we can be. Any other final words? Robin?

Yes. I want to share what I think are some beautiful communication strategies and techniques that are very, very simple. And these are, I call them, the four keys of communication. The arc throughout my next book I have my free YouTube channel that I teach these things on my YouTube channel. And these are things that you want to utilize when communicating with others and things to search for in others when they're communicating with you. Because again, when you are using these keys of communication, both you. That equation is balanced because it literally shifts the focus from yourself to others and literally when someone else is doing it, it's shifting the focus from them to you. It's a beautiful combination. It's really simple. Number one, seek the thoughts and opinions of others instead of telling them all about yours. Two, speak in terms of their challenges, priorities, pain points, friction points instead of yours. Three, be non judgmentally curious. And I call it active curiosity. Really dive deep. Fill out the, you know this, go back and listen to this conversation. For those that are listening, this is a conversation. We're filling out nooks and crannies through active curiosity. It's called validation. There was no right, there was no wrong. There's curiosity about finding the nooks and crannies about who we are, the things, how we see life through our optics. In other words, see context. Finally, four, you empower people with choices because when you give someone a choice, it makes them feel safe, doesn't make them feel controlled, and we positively respond to each one of them. So if you can use one of those four things, fantastic. If you use all four, even better. So those are four ways in which to shift the focus from yourself to others. Because when you're doing it, you're doing the most important thing in the world to, for another human being. You're making them seem, feel seen, they're being valued and you appreciate who they are and you're making them feel safe. And so when you do those things, you're going to have a great healthy relationship. And when they're doing it back to you, that's called poetry. That is an artful conversation. And artful. I mean, so again, re. Listen to this, hear all the what questions, the curious questions, the seeking thoughts and opinions questions, the non judgmental curiosity aspects of it. And that is a beautiful conversation because each one of those elements was utilized through both of us throughout this conversation and dialogue.

It's so good, Robin.

I can't even stand it.

And you, and you. I can't. And I get choked up. Who would, who would have guessed? But I will leave, folks, if that's okay with this. When you talk about these four things, what I realize is that I do much more of these four things on this show. But in my every. And in coaching and in coaching, no doubt. But I would say in my personal relationships and there's much more, you know, twisting, tying up myself because I don't do as much here. I'm just, I'm just learning. I'm asking you what I need to learn. I have no judgment. I don't have time to have judgment. I'm just soaking it in.

Wouldn't that be great if we just.

Applied that a little more in every dimension?

100%. And you know how you can, how here's a brave thing you can do. So the people that are close in your life where we get lazy on making it about them, which is common, very common. Empower them with choice. Be transparent and open. Share with them those four keys and let them know when I, when I fall short on this, can you be my loving critic and let me know so I can right the wrongs that I just did? You.

How can we, how can we not.

End on that note? I'm gonna go cry. And once again, Robin, I just. Look, I love talking to you. I feel like I'm getting trained and taught and hugged up all at once.

Likewise. Kathy is the greatest gift, isn't it? There's. So ask yourself this too. If you had. I love these profound, deep questions. If you had two hours left on this beautiful planet of ours, Only two. This isn't like a bucket list. You have a year left of your life. This is. You have two hours. And I will say where you're going, you have two hours left. What do you do with two hours? You know, I I'll answer it for most people. I know what I would do. I would have the most beautiful conversation I could with the most beautiful people in my life and just laugh, enjoy, let them know I see them, let them know I love them, let them know I'm here. And I. I've loved every single minute with them. So if that's what you do, you last two hours, why don't you do that all the time? Cost you nothing.

I love it. I'm gonna go do that right this minute. It would be with my beautiful family members. Love it. Robin. Where do people soak up everything you've got?

I made it really easy.

Yeah.

Yeah. Robindreak.com R O B-I-N-R-E-E-K-E.com of course.

We will post that below. I come back again. William, let's make this an annual trek into self awareness. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

You're a gift on this planet, my friend.

Thank you.

The gift is mine. Thank you.

All right, people, will you please let us know what you got from this? What is hard, what Robin made sound easy, but you're struggling. Perhaps, like I will be anything you can, you know, wherever you see this, which is on all platforms, please let us know. Please give us a comment or a like or a share with someone who might really benefit.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening and I hope that this really catapults you into a new finding brave sphere every day.

Thanks again, Robin.

I'll see you again soon. Bye, everybody. Have a wonderful week.

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