288: How to Recognize Your Success Wound and Heal It with Brooke Taylor

Ask yourself the question, what did success look like in my family of origin? What did that image of what a good or optimal woman look like in my family? In the media and the people we admire or look up to, what is your almost like unique collage of Frankenstein, you know, woman that we've put together and pasted together that we're unconsciously comparing ourselves to?

Hello everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast, Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life, to rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of Finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful and meaningful life, business and career. Hey folks, is it finally time to make a big change in your career but you just can't figure out how to do it? It's time for help and time to invest in yourself and finally understand and shift what hasn't been working for you. Join me as I coach and guide you through powerful, proven steps that will unlock your fullest and happiest potential. I've worked with thousands of professionals across six continents and the results have been transformative for them for a limited time. Also take advantage of my 10% discount for you, my amazing finding brave listeners. Save 10% off my one on one succession career and leadership breakthrough program and my most powerful you video training course that helps you close the seven most damaging power and confidence gaps that are in the way of your ultimate success and happiness. You can work with me in both of these programs for the comfort of your own home at your own pace. Now's the time. Don't wait. Build the career you're ready for. Check out the show notes below for details and I can't wait to support you. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. How are you? We are recording this in when is it? Mid June and you all are seeing it in late July. I am just so happy. I'm on cloud nine. I love June, maybe because it's my birthday month, but the weather is so beautiful and I just feel like a different person, which means maybe I should move to California. Are you in so Speak Kathy, introduce our guest, Brooke Taylor, who is here and I'm so happy to have Brooke and serendipitously Brooke today as we're recording, we were Featured in a piece from Fairy God Boss that we will link to below about how to recognize and overcome imposter syndrome. And when we first met, I think one of us reached out because we were featured as the in a list of the top 10 career coaches for women. And you are a rock star in what you do. And I'm so grateful for your time today. Thank you for joining me.

Oh, it's an honor. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Cannot Wait. And we're digging in on how to recognize your success wound. Where does that resonate and heal it? So here we are. But I'm going to tell you a little bit about Brooke, but I'm forgetting Brooke, are you in California?

Yes, I'm in Los Angeles.

What's the weather there? Just dying to know.

You know, we have June gloom, so it's very strange. But like May and June are almost our winter. It gets a little chilly, but it's starting to turn around. I know, it's bizarre.

Does it get gray or just sunny and cold? Colder.

Very gray.

Okay, interesting. So, you know, every, every location has a little downside, but that's just a little downside. I think most of you would take it. Californians. All right, everyone, let me tell you about Brooke. Very inspiring. Brooke is a transformational career coach for women and a former marketing lead at Google. She was named, as we said, oh, no, this is even more top career coach to watch by forbes, Fortune magazine, LA Weekly, and has been featured in Women's Health, Business Insider, and more. Her clients are top female executives at Goldman Sachs, Google, Coinbase, PwC, and IBM. Her transformational group coaching programs and workshops have changed the lives of over 5,000 women globally. Brooke is the global expert. Expert in a phenomenon she called the success wound, which we're going to hear all about, which is the pain high achievers experience when they mistake this, their success, for their self worth. I already have a new question that we weren't prepared for, which I will ask you in a minute. Brooke has lived in five countries. Wow. Before settling in her home state of California with her husband and her puppy, Paloma. All right, my dear, let's dive in. I want, I would love to know a little bit about why you're drawn to focus on the success wound. And, and if you would define that for us first, and I'm dying to know, within that definition, are you seeing that women struggle with it in ways that men do not? So will you tell us.

So in my experience working with people that I call unfulfilled achievers. So this category or generation of mostly professional women who, despite all of their achievements, all of their accolades, all of their success on paper, still never feel like enough. And often people point to systemic issues like the gender pay gap as a reason for that or unconscious bias in the workplace. I found that in my coaching with these women, I was brushing up or bumping up against something else, this other kind of invisible foe, and it sounded like, you know, I don't have what it takes or I feel behind despite them, you know, being in the top 10% of achievers at their companies or things like I'm lazy, despite them being anything but, or if I don't do it, nobody else will. And these types of beliefs, these, that continue to kind of echo across all of my clients. And as soon as they said them, I identified with it too. And, you know, finally when I would ask them, like, what's, what do you think is driving this? They would say, oh, it's my perfectionism, or it's my lack of boundaries, or it's my toxic boss. But really, when it boiled down into it and kind of got underneath it, it was this phenomenon that I call the success wound, which is the pain that comes from mistaking success and productivity and achievement for self worth and identity. I would hear my clients say things like, if I could only just, you know, separate myself from my work, or if I could only just get out of my own way. What they were really talking about is if they could only just like hold their ambition in one hand and their success and achieve and their, excuse me, their self worth in another hand, then they would finally feel kind of content and fulfilled and they were onto something. So through my research and work with over 5,000 corporate women, I've found kind of figured out a process to not only diagnose the success wound, but to heal it, such that women can actually have the fulfillment and the contentment and the satisfaction that they're looking for, all coming from this one kind of core issue.

Wow. And, you know, we were talking earlier, I think all of us who focus on mid to high level professional women are seeing this very, very clearly. But we all have a different lens. Like, as you know, my book the Most Powerful you is about the seven damaging power and confidence gaps. Every one of them, you're nodding, you would nod your head. You've lived it, you've experienced it, you're working with a thousand women who have it. And I think that those of us who love to create frameworks to intervene in a problem do it In a way that makes most sense to us. But, you know, one of the women featured in this very God Boss article, I will remember her name, she mentioned in the piece that it's so important and enlivening to learn from the insights of the other people doing the work that we're doing, like you and me. Yes. Because I think it's going to make our own frameworks richer, you know, so I'm so grateful to hear about, not that we have it, but what to do about the success wound. But I do have a question I used to focus only on. I need to help women because we have a long way to go to love ourselves, to accept ourselves, and men seem to be in a different place. I am not painting all women with the same brush or all men. And I do not mean to categorize unfairly, but I want to ask you this because I've interviewed a lot of men who are working with healthy masculinity. Mark Green, Ludo, Gabriel, Terry, Real. I'm gonna guess that men have a success wound because they're taught from day one, you need to be the breadwinner. You need to be successful. Not all families, don't get me wrong. But, you know, you need to be not vulnerable, not emotional. You need to get it done. Why do you think the success. I'm asking, let's not assume. Do you think the success wound is. Looks different in men and. And hurts them differently? Can you talk about that for a minute?

Sure. Yeah. I think it's totally true. I know that the success wound, you know, goes across gender, it goes across location, it goes across ethnicity and background. And in fact, it is those very culturally informed identities that impact how we experience our success wound. Because in our cultural upbringing and what that looks like to be a man or to be a woman or to be a mother or to be a father or to be a person. In our own unique cultural upbringings, we try to live up to this ideal of what a successful fill in the blank identity looks like. So the gap between where we are and who we are and our ability to live up to that ide of that's that deficiency that creates that success wound. And so, for example, with the men that I've spoken with, they say exactly that I'm expected to be a caregiver or provider that looks, you know, this way. Right. That, you know, is not vulnerable or is able to provide with ease and has hockey stick, you know, revenue growth or whatever that looks like. But. And for women, and it's because I work Specifically with women. And I would argue that because the success wound is created through a lot of patriarchal and capitalistic notions of success, women are actually better positioned to heal it. And so that's why I work specifically with women and I have more data in my research around how it manifests with women. And so I'm, I just speak mostly to the female experience.

Wow. I have to. First of all, you've just unlocked something that I've never in my entire life thought of and I will. Incredible. I'll tell you that in a minute, which relates completely. But can you explain what you just said here? Did I hear you that be. Let me see if I get it right. The way women interact with the gap between success and self love or self fulfillment or who we really are. What was the term you used? There's achievement and then there's. What do we really.

I think I said self worth or something.

There we go. But then you said the way we interact in patriarchal systems help set us up to heal it better. I'm going to make a big assumption is that because men in patriarchal societies are tipping and we don't need. We're not men, so we're not speaking for men. I hope we hear from men, you know, wherever they hear this. But that the patriarchal mandates are so firmly established that it's very, very difficult to turn the Titanic around and shift it in your own life. Is that what you mean?

What I mean is that I think patriarchy impacts men and women differently. I think it has harm in both of those gendered groups and experiences and across gender lines. So for example, my definition of success, what I call my success idea deal when it's driven by my success wound. Look something like this and tell me if this relates to this, if this, you know, rings any bells. It's like the effortless entrepreneur, right? It's. And who works 35 hours a week and has hockey stick growth and is invited into all of the most relevant and inspired communities and can raise her prices with ease and can delegate to a team and all her sister systems are automated and she has enough time for to work out and to meal prep and to self care and to, you know, spend time with her family. I know that that sounds ridiculous.

That's a myth. It's a myth, damaging myth.

It doesn't stop me from thinking I should be that person. I see I am always comparing myself to that success ideal. And when I ask my clients questions like what's your success ideal? I hear from like my client Nicole for example, who says I want to be the kind of effective side hustler, she work at Google and she wants to start a non alcoholic rum brand and she says I want to be able to kind of kill it in my 9 to 5 and then I want to be able to leave work and you know, effortlessly speak about my non alcoholic rum brand and I want it to, you know, replace my corporate salary so I can, you know, effortless. It's always this kind of like effortless ideal that it just, it kind of happens and that, you know, when we reach this vision of success, this success ideal, then we will finally feel fulfilled and happy and good enough. And I think we all logically know, right, our salary is in our worth and our job title won't make us happy. But there's still something inside of us that is trying to live up to this success ideal and that is A, culturally informed but B, very much driven by this success wound, this belief that as soon as, that I'm not enough, I'm not there and I'm behind unless I can finally live up to this success ideal. Does that resonate with you at all?

Yes. So as I am, I'm really grasping here, trying to. It sounds like the, the gap between where you are today and this ideal that you formed is the wound.

That's right.

And the ideal probably for the vast majority of us is not attainable but somehow through social media, which is really messing us all up, it makes us everything look so simple. If I only did what she does right now, it'll be so. And is that also then constantly impacting our self esteem and our self worth? The fact that we're not where we think we should be? It's a direct correlation, I think so.

I think that's part of what's driving this. Like I said at the beginning, that I don't have what it takes, I'm behind, I'm lazy, right? If I haven't done everything that I possibly could do because there's so much to be done, that I'm lazy or I don't deserve to have it, or if I fail, then I'm a failure. Those are some of those myths of the success wound and how we try to live up to that success ideal. We all have different strategies for that. We all have different ways that we attempt to work when we're actually working from our wounding. So there are kind of five categories for that and I call them the five types of unfulfilled achievers. And the first one is the grinder. So this is the most common. This is the person who wants to be valued for their work ethic and they perceive their value with how much they do and how much they produce. The second one is the pleaser. This is of course, the person who wants to be liked. They find safety and fulfillment and contentment by everybody approving of them. They tend to have more of an anxious attachment style at work and they want to find success and kind of make it to the top through their relationships. The third is the hider. So this is the person who, you know from the outside kind of kills it at what they do, but on the inside is very scared to step outside of their comfort zone and to actually try to do something different or to accomplish their dreams.

Wow.

The fourth is the work hard, play hard. So this is the one that I really embodied when I was early on in my career. So this is almost like the bro culture influenced ideal of I'm gonna kill it in my 9 to 5 and then I'm going to have all the peak experiences outside of that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna drink, I'm gonna party. I'm going because I deserve it because I've worked so hard. And then there's the final one, which is the seeker. So we all have a seeker friend, right? That person who's constantly in an existential crisis, who's thinking, well, if I could only just get this next job, then I would finally be happy. Or if I could only just, you know, finish this cleanse, then I'll finally feel clean. Like it's this very destinational idea of fulfillment and success. So these five types, most of my clients tend to fall into one of these primary types, although you can have, of course, different, you know, all of these types at different types in your times, in your career, or different times of day even. But these are the five primary manifestations of the success wound.

I have so many questions. You know what, speaking of insights from others that rub up against ours, do you know, I. I have identified five action styles. Dominant action styles, striver, seeker, pacer, researcher, challenger and advocator. And what, what is similar is often will manifest a style that we think will bring us success, but it's actually not who we really are. So striver is your grinder. And I was a striver in my corporate life. That was it. It's about accomplishing goals. Doesn't matter how you get there, you know, terrible health, exhausted, depressed, sexual harassment. I'm getting to the goals, right? But interestingly, I'll just say this and you'll. You. You can read. We'll link to it below. The seeker is actually someone who values learning and growth and in their job seeking is not appreciated or wanted. It's striver behavior that's wanted. So it's interesting how each of these can overlap and can have positive connotations and positive drives and ones that also hurt us. But I have to ask one about one. I would say I'm a work hard, play hard. I don't mean I'm pounding down the the vodka. I mean I sing regularly and perform. I'm a tennis player. My life is full of passions and that's what makes me so happy. So I'm interested in, for anyone listening, the work hard, play hard. What is the downside of that? That they're always in action and they can never just let me just be, for God's sake. I don't have to be winning. I don't have to be playing pickleball today and skiing tomorrow and is. And dancing. Is that what that means? What's wrong with work hard, play hard is what I'm getting at.

Well, there's nothing wrong. And that's the thing about all of these. There are strengths in all of them. The question is, are you coming to your work hard, play hard in an effort to numb or distract from that pain of not being enough? Or is your work hard, play hard coming from a place of passion and desire and connectivity? So, for example, when I was in my work hard, play hard in my early career at Google, it looked something like this. Work super hard Monday through Thursday. Be, you know, both the life of the boardroom and the life of the party. Go to all the happy hours because that's where my managers would be so that I could put in the extra time. So that. And because I knew that they played favorites. And then on the weekend, you know, I would burn it to the ground. I'd stay busy, I would travel. I wanted all the peak experiences and the extraordinary because I hoped that those extraordinary experiences would make me feel extraordinary. And so my work hard, play hard was very much a influenced by the bro culture of Google. And it was very much coming from my desire to numb that feeling of not being enough versus a pleaser, you know, might be working to numb their experience of not being enough through trying to get approval from others or a grinder numbing that experience of not being enough through working harder, producing more. And so that's the nuance is where is this behavior coming from? Is it coming from your wounding or is it Coming from your wholeness, so deep.

And I'm sure you hear what I hear. I'm almost every one of these. At some point I have been, you know, it's not. And someone will ask you, but wait. I see myself sometimes I'm doing this. Oh. In this community or this environment. And sometimes I'm doing this. Yeah. You know, I'll never forget when I was in the corporate world, I took the Myers Briggs and I came out as an entj. And there was one aspect of it that didn't seem right to me, but I answered all the questions correctly. I mean, honestly. So I went up to the trainer and I said, I gotta ask you a question. I'm in entj, but it doesn't feel like me. What could be happening? And he goes, look at every leader in your company. They're all ENTJs. What we tend to do is subconsciously adopt the behavior we think is going to help us get over.

Oh, that's powerful.

Wow. And I feel like this is true of the action style of. This is so fascinating.

You got it.

And I want to ask you, I definitely want to dig in about what the heck do we do here? Where do we begin? But I want to tell you what came up for me earlier. My parents are in heaven. My mom died last year at 98. Dad died 10 years ago at 93. They were so supportive. You know, I had challenges with mom because I couldn't speak up to my Greek mother. I couldn't challenge her. Dad was the strongest supporter and he was brilliant. Phi Beta Kappa 7 patents, photographic memory scientist. Holy. So here's what would happen when I would come home with all A's and an A minus. First of all, they never celebrated it. They expected it. But he would say, what happened here with the A? Not meanly, but I knew that wasn't good enough. So I always felt not. Did I always feel not smart enough? There was an undercurrent of you're not quite there.

Yes.

But when I got there, there was no celebration. There was an expectation. But here's what I want to tell you that came up when you spoke. He also was very traditional Italian. And it came out that he believed that women should be the caregivers at home because he felt they were more empathic. Look at that dichotomy if you're really going to try to please your parents.

Right, right.

I mean, I was the opposite. I did not want to be a stay at home mom. I'm not casting aspersion on It. I just saw what my mother went through, that when we left, she got depressed, clinically depressed. And I said, that will never be me. I'm not going to guilt my kids that they've left and I have nothing. But isn't it interesting that I never thought of how challenging that the dichotomy is Succeed, be the best. I was, you know, the top in a lot of things in high school. But yet the expectation of what a good woman is, is. She stays home.

Yes.

With the children. Do you ever hear this with. Well, you're working with executive women, but do you ever hear. I'm sure you do that from childhood. There are competing. What does that do with the success wound when you're. It's a little bit whiplash. You're supposed to be this, but at the same time, you're supposed to be this.

I think that's indicative of the entire kind of paradoxical expectation for women. Right. That Barbie speech from America. America Ferreira. Right. That's so famous around be agreeable, but not too agreeable and be assertive but not aggressive. And therein lies. Right. That success ideal that was painted for you. And that's how I always start with my clients. I ask them the question, what did an ideal of a good woman look like in your family of origin? What did success look like in your cultural upbringing? What were the expectations that were said and unsaid and demonstrated to you about what goodness or excellence looks like? And so often we get those mixed messages. For me, it was this notion as, like a daughter of the second wave feminist movement. It was like, sky's the limit. You can do anything you want to do. Congratulations. You know, you were born in an era where the glass ceiling is shattered. But in reality, sky was not the limit. There was a very narrow definition of what was acceptable in my family of origin and in my cultural upbringing. It wasn't be whatever you want to be. It was, you know, go get a very stable job, go get a very stable paycheck, climb the corporate ladder, and be the best at whatever it is that you want. And this kind of generational, even parenting style is really talked about in depth in a really fantastic book called Never Enough. It's about achievement, culture, and what it's doing to children. I can't remember the woman who wrote it. Jennifer.

We'll link to it, definitely.

Yeah, please do. Jennifer Briney. I think Briney. And it talks a lot about just exactly that, that paradoxical expectation of children to be happy and be fulfilled, but do it in this specific way. And I think that's different for everybody.

What a powerful set of insights. I also think I remember my mom used to say when I was struggling in my corporate career, almost like, annoyed, you can do whatever you want. So why are you doing this awful thing that you hate? Sometimes saying to your child, you can be anything is pressure and not helpful, frankly.

Right.

And especially because parents have an expectation of what doing anything is.

Exactly. Yeah.

They don't mean do anything. They mean do anything in the way they. Their success ideal was.

That's right.

Unless they're very, very aware and have had therapy.

Do you agree with that? I do, I do. I mean, I can only relate to that through my own experience in my work with women. And the expectation is always work hard, you know, take care of yourself and your family, and do it in a way that's not going to rock the boat. That's not going to rock the boat culturally. And I think especially, you know, the data shows that specifically, parents have started to see their children's ability to achieve as a reflection of their parenting. And there's a lot of data to support that. And so I think, you know, my process is about healing the success wound within us. And I could see myself one day maybe writing a book about, you know, parenting around this. I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. But I think it starts with deconditioning and deprogramming and unlearning these cultural myths around success within us first so we don't pass it on.

Boy, do we need that book. You know, I. I don't know that. If you knew. I was a marriage and family therapist for five years. That's right. And a lot of the discussions when children were troubled or acting out with how parents want to talk about it, it would be because the parents were either overtly or covertly trying to live through their children. I mean, we see it, you know, I want you to be playing the top instrument, you know, number one violinist, chair. I want you to be number one in soccer. I want you to get into Harvard. I. And I basically won't really fully love you unless you do these seven things. And so there would be a lot of discussion about these children didn't come into this planet to live your thwarted. To fulfill your thwarted dreams. They have their own lives.

That's right. And to be clear, you know, their parents are part of the cultural soup, too. I think it is first cultural. I think all of these ideals of what success is comes from first kind of culture. Patriarchy and capitalism and what it means to be productive or successful within those systems. And then parents want their kids to, you know, be healthy and happy within. But within those systems. So pointing the finger mostly at the culture.

This is powerful. So now what do we do? I give you five minutes to help us heal. Here you go. But I. I think your first question is, what is your success ideal? You've got to get to the root of it. I'm going to do that exercise right away and we're going to point folks to your site and I'm sure you have downloadable stuff. But what do we do once we see. Oh, boy, I get it. I have been chasing something that's unattainable. I don't even want it, or, you know, it's a clash with what I. What is happiness to me? What do we do? Give us some steps.

Yes, it's that. It's that first step of diagnosis. So ask yourself the question, what did success look like in my family of origin? What did that image of what a good, good or optimal woman look like in my family, in the media, in the people we admire or look up to? What is your almost like unique collage of Frankenstein, you know, woman that we've put together and pasted together that we're unconsciously comparing ourselves to? And then how does your success wound manifest? What is one of your. What is the primary Unfulfilled achiever archetype? We'll link the quiz below. It's just a free quiz. You can take that brooktailorcoaching.com quiz and from there, once we've understand and understood what our success wound looks like and how it operates within our lives, we then want to say, okay, how do I get about healing this? And it really requires a shift in how we be, how we work, and how we think. So those three primary shifts, how we be, which means, you know, our value comes from our being, not our doing, how we think. Meaning, how do we define success in a new way? How do we talk to ourselves? How do we find the ways to say, for example, if our success is telling us I don't have what it takes, or it's not safe for me to shine or I'm lazy, How do we replace that with a more productive thought, like, it is safe for me to shine, or my value comes from my being, not my doing, or, you know, let me write down the five ways in which I've been valuable outside of my product. Traditional productivity, and then finally, new ways of working. Right? So for the grinder instead of, you know, operating from our wounding, which means I'm going to do everything in my power to just do, do, do. Maybe sitting back and applying an essentialist approach. What are the two to three things that must be done today and how do I do those really well, for the seeker, the person who says, you know, maybe this, you know, are you my purpose or the next job? Or the next job, it's about kind of, to your earlier point, how can I seek within as opposed to without? And what do I really want for the hider? It's about taking turtle steps outside of your comfort zone. Those small, tiny little next right actions that can lead to something greater than just continuing to have, you know, the same experience over and over again. And for the work hard, play hard. It's about slowing down and asking what's underneath the busyness. Is this really coming from again, like passion and collaboration, which it sounds like it is for, for you, or is this coming from trying to live up to that success ideal and, you know, never kind of continuing to feel like enough? So those are just some examples of that shift in being and thinking and doing.

How beautiful and in the end, does that result in what you call aligned ambition? Tell us in a sentence, what are we doing this for? Where we're going to do everything you suggest, and what are we going to come out with? What's going to happen?

Yeah, the essential question, if you were to take anything from this, you could ask yourself is, am I working from my wounding or am I working from my wholeness? Am I working from my, you know, strategies that I'm using to try to protect myself and live up to this unachievable ideal, or am I working from a space of, again, kind of collaboration and creativity and confidence. Aligned ambition is that second option. It's the state of fulfillment and contentment and satisfaction that comes from following the directions of your true self rather than the directions of your success wound or the culture. And this is the process that, you know, that new way of thinking, doing and working ultimately ends you up with. And it really requires you to really parse out and really understand what is the voice of my success wound and what is the voice of my true self? And here's a hint. You know you're in your success wound if you're failing to see other possibilities, if you're trying to act out of a place of trying to control or manipulate or even analyze, but you know you're working from your true self when you see nothing but possibilities, abundance, when the experience of Work feels confident and playful and present and you're in a state of flow and that is possible. It's not possible 100 of the time. I think we're human beings. No, I mean, I get tripped up on this stuff all the time. The most important thing is about how to come back to that space. And that's what I help my clients to do.

It's so beautiful. You know, I know I have to let you go, but you know what came to me as an exercise and maybe you teach it and that's why I'm getting it. But a lot of people, like even today about this article have written to me, wow. And this is not to brag, but you know, I have a big following.

I love it.

But I'm saying this to frame it. You know, they'll say, I'm I feel honored to be in the same article as you because you are so this. I would ask everybody listening, man or woman, write down the name of someone you don't know well but you think is the pinnacle of success and then write down what you think they have that you don't have. Right. And I don't mean 850,000 followers on LinkedIn. I don't mean that. I mean how do you, how are you assuming they have success? And then I want you to look at is that real or is that your success wound saying they have something you don't have?

Right. Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Totally. I think that's exactly it. That's that success ideal. Right?

Success, the ideal that is really a figment of our a little bit thwarted imagination, you know, I think. Oh, thank you. Now where do people go? Just give us a few links. Any programs that you're delivering. Where do we send people? It's sure.

So my website is brooktaylorcoaching.com you can find me on Instagram. I'm Brooke V. Taylor and I have a mini course that's available called Healing the Success Wound, which is a very bite sized and very actionable set of exercises that you can do take on a daily basis to help you heal your success wound.

I'm hopping over there this minute. Brooke, thank you so much. It's so powerful. Like I know that it's aligned for me because calms me down. Yet I see that there's work to do which is usually those clash. Usually I've got work to do.

Right, Right.

Very calm and very centered and I can't wait to dive.

I appreciate that. Well, thank you, Kathy. Such a great conversation. I love having it with you.

Thank you so much for joining me. All right people, as I say every time, if you don't have questions, we're not doing our job. So hop over to Brooks material. Wherever you see this, please ask a question or share an aha that that meant something to you. We would love, love love to your feedback and I hope this helps you have a very Finding Brave two weeks and we will see you next time.

Thank you, thank you.

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