306: How to Turn LinkedIn Into Your #1 Business and Career Growth Tool with Jon Lyndon

When we are sharing facts and stories and things that we've accomplished, if we have an outcome that we want to come from that I think it helps us be authentic and it helps us to be confident about those things because it leads into something rather than just sharing to share.

Hello everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast, Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life. To rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of Finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful and meaningful life, business and career.

Hey, folks, Kathy here.

Are you ready for a big positive.

Shift in how you're working and what you're achieving today in your career? Let's make that happen for you. While you might know me best as a podcast host and a writer, a key focus in my work is helping women experience greater success and achieve their biggest goals in the quickest, most effective way possible. In my six session career and leadership breakthrough, one on one coaching program, I help women get what they want most, which includes more confidence, impact, advancement, financial reward and fulfillment. I've worked with over 20,000 women across six continents and before that I served as a therapist and before that I was a corporate VP managing multimillion dollar budgets and global initiatives. I bring all of that experience to our work together, helping you build a new chapter that aligns with who you really are and what you're ready to create. Check out kathycaprino.com careerbreakthrough and I hope you'll register now. I'd love to support you. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. This comes to you. I believe in April. Well, I love April and boy, am I ready for it. We've had. I live in Connecticut. We've had a cold winter, but I know not nearly as difficult as what many other people are going through. But I hope wherever you are, it's. It's a beautiful day for you and I am so excited to have. Wait a minute. I gotta. I gotta change my little screen. There we go. Perfect to so that I can look up here.

Yeah.

Have our guest today, John Linden. And it's such a very cool story how we first even got on each other's radar.

That's right.

A long time ago. And I always love to Say how I learned of my guests. But, John, you. Well, I'm going to read to everybody about your bio, but you have been such a LinkedIn enthusiast from kind of the beginning, is that not right? A long.

That's right. A long time. A long time.

And I think when I first emerged on the platform, you, you somehow knew and, and I'm sure you were instrumental in some of the wonderful stuff that happened. But what we're talking about today, I got the perfect title. How to turn LinkedIn into your number one business and career growth tool. I'm so excited about it. John, thank you for taking the time from Toronto.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited for the conversation.

I'm thrilled to do it. So let me tell you all about John. John Linden is the CEO of Lynden Consulting, an independent strategic advisory that partners with global companies and executive leaders with their technology strategy with a focus on what they do and pay for on LinkedIn. And John spends his time working on corporate LinkedIn talent and sales programs, executive thought leadership, and as a professional brand advisor to professional athletes. So cool as they look to life beyond sport. And I can tell you folks, in one recent conversation with John, he moved me forward in a big way in how to reach out to new people that inspire you, but they may not know you. And a way to phrase that. And when somebody can move me forward that quickly on LinkedIn, where I'm on it about five hours a day, I know you have so much teach us, so. So where I want to start is what you just said to me before we pressed record, I asked you what's the biggest thing that maybe people don't quite understand or what is kind of the living, breathing mantra that you hold about LinkedIn. Will you share that again with us?

Yeah, absolutely. Because I feel that there's still a lot of misconception about social media and digital platforms. And you know, the way that I think about LinkedIn is a human connection tool, pathway to opportunity at scale. And so how can we use it to help people get to trust and credibility as quickly as possible and to do that through your branding of yourself, who you are, what you care about, what your passions, what are you good at? I feel when we look at LinkedIn in that lens, it helps shape everything else that we do and then get us closer to those outcomes that we're trying to achieve for our business, for ourselves and the success that we're looking to find.

I mean, you make it sound very easy, and I feel exactly as you do LinkedIn has been an enormous game changer for me, but a personal growth changer for me. Because when you do build a little bit of a following, you realize you could be a role model, you could be a thought leader, you could share yourself in a bigger way. And I think when we do that, it's a catalyst for thinking about those questions, well, who do I want to be in the bigger way? But can you tell us? What would you say? And some of these questions I haven't prepped you for, so sorry about that. But you live and breathe this, so I know, you know, I see a number of misconceptions and false ideas about what LinkedIn is. I would spew out a few here, but I'd love yours. The first is, you know, I will actually. I'm on it so much during the day that I feel like I know more about how a person is showing up in their career than they do by looking at LinkedIn. And what I mean by that is if you're kind of hiding, you don't have a picture, your headline is your job title, which I never suggest doing. When there's no about section or there's very little content, I think it sometimes means people are really hiding and they're not fully engaged in their career. But a lot of people say no, I think it's just for job search.

Yeah, that's right.

So that's misconception number one. Another, I feel, is just what you and I talked about. Some people use it exclusively as a sales tool, but to me they do it in a way that's so off putting.

That's right. That authentic.

Yeah, it's the opposite of authentic. So what, what would I say about that? I think you're using it wrong, people, and I think you're not going to have success and in fact you're going to push away some of the very people you want to connect with. I'd love your thoughts on that. And any other misconceptions that you see really do hurt people. Clear those up first.

I think it's a great question because I think there still today is a lot of misconception about LinkedIn or how to use it or how to find that success to it. And the first one you mentioned is how it's viewed still as that job site only, which it was definitely known for in its early days and that was kind of the catalyst for the platform is not only kind of growing your network, but going on there when you need a new job. And it can still be used in that way, but there's just so much more to it now. And there's a real ecosystem, I would say, around, around the platform and what you can do. And the couple of things I'll share on that is, you know, taking everyone back into a bit of the history of LinkedIn and kind of how it has evolved from, you know, just a job site or somewhere where you go to upload your online resume and look for a new career or a new job role.

Before you do that, John, can you tell people your role at LinkedIn and your tenure there and what you did there? So understand, you know, the ins and outs from a different perspective as an outsider would, you know, for sure.

Yeah. I spent almost a decade at LinkedIn, worked across a couple of different roles while I was there in the different business lines, so across talent and people and then sales as lines of business at LinkedIn. And so when I first started, I was in customer success as LinkedIn was trying to figure out what is customer success to an organization and how is it different to customer support or advisory or solution consulting? And so they were trying to figure this out and they, they kind of added me to that first team. My goodness. Success.

When did the platform begin?

Was it 2004? Yeah.

Oh, my. Okay. I came on around 2014. All right.

Wow. Yeah. So, so I, I started working at, at LinkedIn at the beginning of 2014 in a customer success role. And then that role changed as I moved throughout the organization. I moved into a talent intelligence role. So looking at the data that LinkedIn has globally and how people look at how they hire, who they hire, the skill development, the transfer of talent from, you know, industry to industry or job to job, and that was fascinating. And then I worked in a sales intelligence role. So again, using LinkedIn data to help companies and organizations with how they sell and who they sell to, who's in their target market using, using kind of real time data on LinkedIn. And so, you know, it brings up an interesting point because in 2014, LinkedIn was a very different platform than it is today. Right. And so that misconception has carried through the years. You know, in 2014, there was about 300 million members on the platform. Today there is 1.1 billion members. So if we think about 300 million.

Is a lot for back then, still.

A lot of people, good for them, you know, and if you think about the 300 million members in 2014 who were mainly using it as that networking platform or the place to find a new job to the 1.1 billion that are using it now for many, many different things, whether that's building your brand or looking for that next job, or marketing for your company, selling products and services, learning new skills with LinkedIn, learning being a thought and sharing content around articles and videos. It's now this ecosystem that has, you know, tremendously changed. And a couple of the other interesting kind of data points that go into that. In 2014, it was, you know, mainly used on desktop. We say about 47% of the users on LinkedIn were using mobile. That number today is 75%.

Really.

So if you think about the way that people even use LinkedIn and they're using it on their cell phone, their mobile device, and, you know, they're using it on their commute to work, or they're using it in the evenings, or they're using it while they're at work. And so, you know, this brings in just a lot of different aspects to how people use the platform or what the platform is designed to help you achieve in your career and to grow your business. And then the last thing I'll mention is just the kind of the revenue side for LinkedIn, because it does impact what they did and how they built products and what we do on LinkedIn versus today, they were about 2.2 billion in revenue in 2014. Now this year they're looking at 18 billion. And now being owned by Microsoft, they have such an enormous resource bank to build the products and continue to evolve LinkedIn. And kind of the way of how do we have an ecosystem where the world of work spends their time digitally?

I find it so fascinating.

Yeah. So hopefully that's helpful in going.

Thank you. All right.

On that one misconception, now we know.

Everything we need to know about LinkedIn. So we were talking about misconceptions. So one is, you know, people, this is how I would say it. Using it only for job search is. Is so missing the point. So curtailing the amazing opportunities that you can have with it. Right, so that's misconception one.

Yep.

Anything else you would say?

Yeah, there's probably two others that I'd mention. One is a misconception of not wanting to come across in the wrong way. People do build out their profile and they do begin to share content. A lot of people don't want to come across as boasting or having an ego or sharing only their successes then the way that they're perceived on their profile. Profile. So what then happens is they share very little. Right. And so that misconception of being able to build your brand and who you are and what you're great at is actually a strength. Right? And we should celebrate each other and we should be able to, you know, see what people care about professionally and, you know, especially small business owners or entrepreneurs. I want to learn about them. I want to know what they're doing. I want to gain, you know, new perspectives of what I do through other people. And so the more that people do share content, thought, leadership, their own branding on LinkedIn and telling stories through that, it's not egocentric, it's not oversharing. It actually helps and enables other people as well as themselves. And so I would say that's still a misconception on the platform of I don't want to use it or I don't want to spend time on there because I might come across the wrong way.

Can I ask you a delicate question about this?

Of course.

So my focus for 20 years has been on supporting professional women. Now, I have so many male clients, and I've always known this. But if we look at my latest book, the Most Powerful you, about the seven damaging power and confidence gaps, men have them, too. But the latest research that I did, women have them at a higher degree, and they also internalize them differently. But here's what I want to ask you. I work with this as a coach every day with women and men that they don't. Women tend to say, I don't mean to paint all women or all men with the same brush, but women tend to say, I don't want to sound like a bragger that that's the term they will use. Men won't say that to me, but they'll say, well, I'm not sure I should say this because I'm not sure I really did this. And I'll say, well, did you or didn't you? I mean, it's pretty clear. And usually they'll say, well, my team did it. And I'll say, of course, but you led the team. So I have to dig it out. But the fear of looking like I'm too overly complementary comes out differently. Do you see that same thing, John? Or do you see. No, yeah, not a gender.

Yeah, yeah, I see it. I see it across the board. Right? In. In many conversations that I either have with organizations or people, you know, my partner just, you know, the different array of people and kind of their perspective of not wanting to turn confidence into arrogance, Right. In what they share, but also, you know, telling stories and, you know, sharing in that human connection is what brings us closer together. And if you can do that in an authentic way, even if it's confident, confidence is, is definitely a strength. You know, I think it's really important in today's world, especially online, because there is so much scripting or over scripting of, of communication. There is AI that's, you know, playing a big role. And so the more human we can be in, in these interactions and these communications, the better outflow comes from that. Right.

I so love it. Can I just insert a tip here? People for people who struggle. I. I did a TedX talk time to brave up. And in it is an exercise about identifying the 20 facts of you and what that is, is the 20 accomplishments that you are most proud of. Not your mother, not your boss, you.

Yeah.

And why that mattered to you, what you did. And it could be, you know, you were eight and you had a lemonade stand that made $100 and you gave it to a charity, you know. Yeah. But also the skills that you used to create that accomplishment. But the reality is it's fact that you did it, it's not a lie. So if we can talk about it as fact. I got a master's in marriage and family therapy and served as a therapist. That kind of fact. I think it helps people not feel like they're bragging. It feels like they're sharing the facts of them that would be helpful for someone else to know. And I'm sure in your branding work you have all sorts of exercises and ways to help people get at this, right?

Yeah. And I try and tie it with outcomes. When we're, when we are sharing facts and stories and things that we've accomplished, if we have an outcome that we want to come from that I think it helps us be authentic and it helps us to be confident about those things because it leads into something. Rather than just sharing to share. Right. Or sharing your wins and your accomplishments to look good, if that's the outcome, then it is going to come across in the wrong way and inauthentic and kind of more egocentric. But if you have outcomes that are tied to these stories and experiences, as you're the only one who has those lived experiences, when you begin to share those Right. In the right way, other people then attach to those things and they're relevant because they say, oh, I didn't know that about you, but this applies in my life because I'm going through this as well. Whether that be starting a business or becoming a coach or trying to find that next job and that career, or learn that new skill, there's so many ways that it plays in from other people's stories and experiences, learning from those, I think it's a beautiful thing. And, you know, I talk a lot about, you know, branding on LinkedIn and how to build that professional brand, how to, you know, tell people more about what you do and, and why you do it and, and grow your business because it's important. Right. So, yeah, hopefully that's helpful.

Any other misconceptions, anything else?

The last one I'll, I'll share is about people feeling very confident or secure in the job that they have and so not wanting to be on LinkedIn or be active on LinkedIn because, oh, I don't need to, because I work at LinkedIn or I work at Google or I work at Microsoft or whatever company it is. So I don't need to share, I don't need to build my brand or my network or I don't need to be a thought leader. And where that has played out the most, I would say in conversations that I've had with dear friends of mine who have worked at great companies, and this is true for myself as well, is that I started being very active in 2014 when I started working at LinkedIn as I saw an opportunity to create some of that thought leadership on technology and innovation. And I wanted to connect with people that were in the industry and get to know other companies that were doing this really well. And so carrying that through and then where it really made the most impact on me was when I was part of a global reorg while I was at LinkedIn and I was part of a layoff and thankfully I hadn't taken the approach of I don't need to build my network, I know everyone that I need to know at the company. I don't need to increase that thought leadership or share content because when I went through that, that was definitely a shock and it was a difficult moment. Thankfully, actually got offered a job within about a week of that layoff because I shared about it on LinkedIn and someone had reached out, a manager had reached out another organization and said, I've been following you for a number of years and your activity on LinkedIn and I feel like I know who you are and what you're good at. And so I want to, I want to hire you. And so, wow, again, that's one area where people would say, well, I don't want to brag about that, but it's a way of saying these things become more and more important about our lived experiences and how we can share with other people and why it is important to grow your network and get outside of just the place that you work and share those learnings or those new skills or learn from other people and get to know what other people do and maybe what you're passionate about in case of these life experiences that we don't expect.

Which is relevant in my country.

Yeah, Laos is very relevant right now, of course. And so that's a topic where I try and talk with a lot of friends of mine in the technology world and saying, continue to build your brand, continue to talking, you know, with new people and build that network. And you never know when it might become relevant. It might not be a layoff, but you might want to start a new business, you might want to work in a new industry. And so how, how's the pathway to get to those things, those outcomes when you know, an experience comes along your way that, that you weren't expecting.

Oh, I love it. Now I have a burning question that I have a feeling a good percentage of listeners are thinking, I'm interested in how you shared that you had been laid off because if you look at the US There are so many layoffs. I know people, you know, and in the vein of being very authentic and transparent as a career and leadership coach with a focus on women, my world has changed dramatically since January 1st. So here's what I want to ask you. Did you come out and say you'd been laid off in a post? And I know you're not going to give advice for every single person listening. That's going to be exactly right on. Same with me. Everybody's different and everybody feels differently about it and has a different mindset. But for those who have just been catapulted from their roles.

Yeah.

What would you recommend? Would you recommend that they do a post or.

Yeah, I think it's different for different people in how they typically share and what they are comfortable in doing and how they do it. For me, as I had spent a number of years, it was six years at that point, and I left LinkedIn and then I actually got asked to come back to LinkedIn and spent another three years there. But, you know, I was of the mindset already that I posted very frequently about, you know, different topics and, and the world of work for me. And so posting was my natural reaction and I felt comfortable doing that right in sharing. Hey, the time has come for me to explore a new opportunity. I was part of, you know, a global reorg at Linked. You know, it was at the start Of COVID There was a lot happening, you know, around the world and being able to share that in not a negative way. You know, I definitely had to, you know, rewrite that. That post a couple of times before.

I'm glad you admitted that, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Because I wanted to come up with the right words that were, you know, true to me and the way that I shed post, but also to tell the story behind it. Right. And hopefully help that not only help other people that were. That were impacted, but also help people that were potentially hiring to know what my situation was and what I was then interested in. I wouldn't. I wouldn't probably recommend that for everyone. If you're someone who doesn't typically post to then just come out and, you know, with a. With a post out of nowhere might feel uncomfortable and not something you want to do. The people who don't want to post publicly about a layoff because it's definitely an emotional time and it's stressful, personally having lived through those decisions you've got to make. And there is a certain vulnerability about layoffs. You know what I would recommend to those people, hopefully listeners of this podcast, but is you can share messages directly with people on LinkedIn. So if you follow certain people on LinkedIn who inspire you or who are working at companies that you want to work for or doing things that you want to maybe do, whether that's starting a business or going to coaching or there's so many different, different ways to do it, is reach out to those people and have a. Have a. Have a human conversation with them and then you can, you know, explain, hey, this just happened, right? I am now looking for my next. My next move. And you're someone I want to. I want to learn from and, and connect with, and maybe we overlap and maybe there's something that we can do. And I think that is also really powerful. But I love it so much.

And you. That is exactly the language you shared with me. So that I think is so great. So let's just talk about that then. I want to talk about kind of the broader personal branding work you do with others. But you did say, and I don't want to put words in your mouth because it was perfect. When we're reaching out to someone that, yes, we already have kind of a warm connection with, it's not necessarily a cold connection, but it could be you gave some words about how you can share wanting to connect with them in a more deeper way. Can you share that? Speaking of overlapping, you know.

Yeah, yeah. I think there's, you know, ways that you can communicate with people that, that opens doors to a conversation. Right. And, and I think this is especially true in, in this scenario, or if you're looking to, you know, partner with an organization or with an individual and, you know, even if it's to sell products and services, you know, through those conversations, those are all outcomes that should come from it. But the way that you can approach a conversation with someone is, you know, in sharing. You know, I've wanted to connect with you or we are connected already on LinkedIn. Here's a bit about me and where I spend my time. I would love to see if we overlap and can have a conversation. If you do it in that way, people are generally pretty open to a conversation, especially in the areas where they see a value share. That's one area. The second area is more about that trust and credibility. Whenever I receive a message or a connection request, the first thing I want to do is then go onto their profile. Can I get to trust and credibility of that individual quickly? And so if someone had just been laid off as an example, and they sent me a message like that, I would then likely go to their profile and say, can I learn something about them and understand why they wanted to connect? If it's someone that, from a completely different industry, never done a role similar to mine, and I can't find that connect, or we don't have anyone in common on LinkedIn, that makes it difficult to get to that trust and credibility because I don't know who they are or why they're really reaching out. Whereas if you've built Your brand on LinkedIn and your profile and your network the right way and you share content when you receive that message, if I can find those things really fast. Right. So there's not a lot of work in it initially for that person. I might say to myself, well, there's areas that I think that we overlap. It's worth having a conversation.

And you have just created the perfect explanation for what I do 10 times a day, you know, having a big following there, I'm pitched or reached out to and I. That's the first place I go. Yeah, but you have given words to what I'm looking for and let me see if I got it right and let's see if this is helpful, folks. The trust and credibility piece is you're saying you want to reach out. Let me look at who you are presenting yourself to be. Do I have trust that there would be an overlap in the way you're saying there would. Or am I sensing you're. You're trying to just pitch me a service because you don't even know who I am. You can tell by how you're writing. And how about sometimes, I don't mean to bash this, but Sales Navigator, a lot of people use it. Sometimes I'll get the message, dear parentheses, name. And I want to write them, by the way, dear. You know, you should really make sure your settings are working. But, you know, that's an immediate, you know, delete. But you're showing how the way in which we show up on LinkedIn communicates so much more than we think it does.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

About who we are. Right.

Yeah. Probably the third word I would use, so there's trust, credibility. The third that I'd probably insert into there as well, is clarity. And I want there to be clarity on both sides. Right. When I'm looking at other people on LinkedIn to get to that trust and credibility, there should be clarity. Right? It should be.

I mean, you should, you should understand who they are, the trajectory, the best you can, the best thing.

That's right. And hopefully values rejecting that as well. Right. When people look at, at my company or they look at my website or they look at my LinkedIn or they, they talk to someone that I know, you know, they, I might have sent them a message on LinkedIn and we've got mutual people in common, they might go to that person, say, how do you know, John? And so trust, credibility, and clarity. I think really, if you're able to do that again, there's then a pathway to that conversation. And that's why I mentioned at the beginning LinkedIn really is a human connection tool. Right. It's not just a social media platform. It's not just, you know, somewhere where you can spend a lot of time or a lot of money and even as an organization, but if you view it the right way, as a way to connect with the people that you're looking to work with and for, and build your brand and grow your business, I think, you know, you can be set up for success.

Oh, I love it. Can I keep you a few more minutes and drill?

Of course, yeah. Yeah. I'd actually like to tell a very quick story because I think it relates to, to this scenario and I've told it before, but it's a story about a guy who's walking down the road and he falls in a hole and he can't get out, and a priest walks past the hole, and the guy in the hole Shouts up to the priest and says, hi, I'm down here. I can't get out. Can you help me? And the priest says a prayer over the hole and walks on by. The next person that walks by is a doctor. And again the individual in the hole shouts up and says, hi, doctor, I'm stuck in a hole. I can't get out. Can you help? And the doctor writes a prescription, throws it in the hole. The third person who walks by is a friend and a friend of that person who was in the hole. And he shouts up to the friend and he says, hey, I'm stuck in a hole. Can you help me out? The friend jumps in the hole.

No.

He turns to me, he said, now we're both stuck here. Why did you jump in? And the friend says, well, I've been down here before and I know the way out. Beautiful story of how human connection. And if someone that you know has been in a similar situation, right, they're looking to change their career, they've been part of a layoff, they're starting a business. Who are the people that we can lean on and learn from and get inspired by? And a lot of that lives on LinkedIn. And then you can take it from LinkedIn and into, you know, proper conversations like this. And we connected 10 years ago, right. And we're now still talking and seeing some of the output of that. So, yeah, I just think that story kind of encapsulates some of that sentiment.

I love it. I'm crying like I always do. I want to throw a few things out to.

Yes.

That I. That I think dovetail on what you're saying. I think the Recommendation section of LinkedIn is so powerful and I'm always looking at what we can do that in the process of doing them. Get us on the finding brave path and the self loving and self appreciation. I don't mean narcissistically. I mean I love and respect myself and I see that so many people are very scared to reach out and ask for a recommendation or even write one. People don't want to blow it. But I would say I want to talk about. I think I have 80 plus recommendations there and on the service page. So when you have services, you can create your own service page and people can rate you with stars and say what they feel about you. But I just want to say, kind of like your beautiful story, it all has a spiritual underpinning. When I was laid off in a brutal way after 9 11, I really felt I really cracked up. A breakdown moment, you know, and so I appreciate when people share when they're feeling a little vulnerable because that's a hard thing to do. But on LinkedIn about, you know, I got laid off. But the point is, I really felt like I wasn't the best leader because I was going through such a hard time. I was ashamed. There was a lot of shame. And I believe the very first recommendation I ever got was from someone who was not in my department. And it's still there. But she said Kathy was someone who I wanted to be like. As if. Look at me. I can't even say without being choked up. As a female leader, senior leader, I swear to you, that healed a myriad of things for me.

Yeah.

That I wasn't that terrible. That as hard as a time as I was going through, some part of me was still behaving in the way I wished I would. That's what a recommendation can do for you people. Because we don't have the words about what other people think of us. Normally they're not telling us that.

Yeah.

So I would say to you, if you want to help other people, be generative and generous and give. Just, you can go. If you're connected, hit more. And it says request a recommendation or give a recommendation. If you give, it doesn't automatically show up. So if you're worried about, I'm not a good writer, they see it first and they can ask. But I will tell you that receiving recommendations has been one of the most kind of career affirming, life affirming things. What do you think, John?

That's amazing and it's true. And a place that you can share those. Right. You can give and receive with the recommendations in, in a way that you can't on any other platform. Right. And it's very difficult to have that opportunity to share again in a, in a way that is human. Outside of that, you know, it's, it would be unnatural in a conversation to read out a recommendation that you got from someone. And the other part that it makes me think about is how your brand and who you are. Right. And those recommendations, the words that people use about you, follows you through your career, follows through, you know, through your life, really. But, you know, I think that there's this, you know, there's this quote that, that relates to it by Jeff Weiner, who was the former CEO at LinkedIn. But his quote is trust equals consistency over time. Right. And so if we, if we pair that with these recommendations, these words and these affirming things from other people about us, it then carries into your profile, how you present yourself, how your brand then carries into conversations with other people. And so when you know, Kathy, if you were to reach out to someone that I'm connected with and say, tell me about John, Right. I'm sure some of those words in the recommendations that are used or how you kind of present your brand and how you've been in words and actions through your career, they all carry in the same way. And so that's what that makes me think of. And the trust equals consistency over time. Is that over a long period of time, if you've been consistent in what you do, who you are, what your skills are, what you're passionate about, how you've helped people, how people have helped you, and telling those stories, you'll get to. You'll get to the trust piece. Right. Trust is just then a natural outcome. Right.

So it's so true, and I think it has so much more meaning than just what we do on LinkedIn. So there's something I want to say that relates to that. There's a lot of people that I'm in the circle of who are the best coaches in the world or whatever. Some of them, I read their material and it doesn't speak to me, the language doesn't land or I rub up against it. The whole point is, are they wrong? No. They have a set of values in the way they communicate that has a million, 10 million followers. But I think where I'm going here is when you are the real you, as much as you can be, you're going to attract the people that you're going to love to work with and support or hire, and they're going to love connecting with you. And that is not everyone.

Yes.

How could it be? We're unique. So I always love to say a lot of people don't see it, but you are as different from other people as your thumbprint. There's no one like you. So the more you can be you and communicate that, it's a filter for, you know, this person, their values, the way they talk to people. That doesn't really jive with my. Well, it's a filter. They'll look at my stuff and go, yeah, no, that doesn't work. So this is why it's so important. If you really. And we talked about this before, I really do think it's like the big cocktail party in the sky.

Yeah.

Wouldn't you want, you know, it could be a coffee shop, too. It doesn't have to be alcohol, but wouldn't you want to Be in the room with the 500 or the thousand or the 5,000 people that inspire you and uplift you and like they get you. Yeah, that's what we can do on LinkedIn. Now I've kept you, but I want to talk about helping professional athletes. I'm dying to know about that. But before that, anything else you would give people as a first step to bringing their brand, their personal brand forward. Anything that we haven't touched on that I may not even know, being on there 100 hours a week that you know.

Yeah. I think the first thing is getting clarity on outcomes.

Right. Of the outcomes you deliver and you support.

Yeah. The outcomes that you want to achieve on LinkedIn.

Oh, I see. Gotcha.

Yeah. So I think the more you get clear on what you want to get from the platform, the easier it is then to kind of reverse engineer it and say, well, what then do I need to do right. To get to those things? So there's a couple of simple examples would be if you're looking to get better leads or potential customers using LinkedIn, you're a small business owner. The outcome is more business. You want to grow your business, but with the right people, the right clients and right leads. So if that's the outcome, then you just have to go backwards and say, or how do I get there? When you hopefully again have, have started to build that brand profile. Right. Of who you are, what you do, and that can be on your company page as well. Make that as clear as possible so that when you do reach out to people or they go to your profile, they're seeing that overlap. Right. As quickly as possible and they get into the trust and credibility, then it's usually that focus and that targeting of who do you sell to? What types of customers are you looking to attract? Well, if you know that you can do that on LinkedIn very easily with the right companies, the right people that are in the roles that can make decisions related to what you're selling as a service or a product, and then having proper conversations, getting introductions into those people with people that you mutually know. You then just start on these, you know, steps and processes to get to that outcome. You know, the, the, another example would be, you know, I work with a number of people who care about nonprofits and foundations that they are either involved in or they care about and they want to elevate those. So if the outcome is elevating or bringing more awareness to the foundation or non profit that you're involved in is what then do you need to do? Beforehand, what's the type of communication you need to put out? Who else might be interested? And then you just kind of backtrack and saying, well, what do I need to do today to get to that outcome? And so when I.