307: Visibility Starts with Recognizing Your Value

That growth is so uncomfortable in the moment, but it's so important because that's actually what helps you identify where the misalignment is. And you might not be able to snap your fingers and change it immediately, but it's giving you indicators of what you want more of or less of, or what you need to explore, or what might need to change for you.

Hello everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast, Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life, to rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week, I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts, and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of Finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful, and meaningful life, business and career. Hey everyone, Kathy here. Quick update. My eight week live course, the Most Powerful you, is now open for spring registration. We start May 15, and if you register by May 10, you'll save $300 and get nine amazing bonuses, including one month of free access to my digital career coaching tool, Kathy Caprino AI over eight weeks, I'll personally coach you to build build confidence, step into your leadership, speak up for what you want, job search and interview more successfully, connect with influential mentors, and finally make the career changes you've been dreaming about. You'll also be part of an amazing support community, both on our live calls and in our private Facebook group. Spots are limited, so don't wait. Visit mostpowerfulyou.com to claim your early bird savings and bonuses before May 10th. Let's make this the year your professional life transforms in the way you dream it to see you there. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. Kathy Caprino here, levitating once again to be on the show with the amazing and inspiring Octavia Gorodema. Octavia, thank you for being here.

Once again, thank you so much for the invitation. It's always a joy talking to you, Kathy.

I always learned so much from you and also feel so good from your energy, which is so beautiful. Thank you again. All right, people, we're talking about something that Octavia and I probably talk to people about pretty much every day. It is visibility starts with recognizing your value. And you know, I need to tell everybody, I need to read your bio. It's so illustrious and I want to say I'm ever surprised and I'll have to say shocked that so many people and I will say I think particularly women, but I do see this in the male clients I have. People are so resistant to being visible in every way we can imagine it.

Yes.

So I really hope that if you tuned into this, this is going to give you that energetic boost you need and it's going to demystify visibility and branding. I hope that's our hope. But let me tell you about Octavia. As an author, career coach and founder and CEO of Fire Memos, Octavia's passion lies in enabling people to unlock their fullest potential at work. Octavia leads her Fire Memos team as they empower individuals to record and recognize recognize their achievements with AI powered check ins. I cannot wait to hear how this is going and what people are saying that this allows for them. Can't wait. Fire Memos, excuse me, is a Tech Stars portfolio company. She's also the author of the book it's great book Prep Push Pivot, published by Wiley and the host of two Audible original series, which is truly an honor Brand Yourself for Success which you were so kind enough to give me a little shout out there. I'm so grateful. And how to Change Careers with Octavia Gordima. Check those out. We'll link to everything below. Originally from England, she was appointed this blows me away a member of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth 2. And as a dual US and UK citizen enjoying living in California right by the beach where you just had a walk last night. Maybe Octavia was an an esteemed guest on this show with episode 248 on Essential Career Strategies for Underrepresented Women. And we'll link to that below. That was really a game changing conversation. So thank you again my dear. Let's dig in here. Now first of all, can you explain why in your mind and your work, why visibility starts with recognizing our value and why so many people struggle with that?

Yeah, I I love this question, Kathy, because the stumbling block to this can often be self promotion. Just feels so hard or cringy or icky. And to get past that feeling, we really have to connect with ourselves. And before we can talk to anyone, anyone else, whether that's a co worker or our boss or our networks about the work that we're doing, we have to recognize our value ourselves. We have to recognize what underpins the work that we do day in and day out, we have to recognize the problems that we're solving. We have to recognize our own growth. We have to embrace the mistakes that we've made and what We've learned from them. And so if there's a disconnect, and if you haven't fully embraced this yourself, and if you haven't fully respected and honored that journey and your progress, then it becomes really hard for you to share that, whether that's online or in conversations or on your resume or in an interview. And I know you know all about this. I've got your book right next to me.

Thank you, dear.

Thank you. And if anyone is watching this, like, on YouTube, can you see all the folded pages I have? Oh, I see things like. Because this book is such a gem. But in this book, the most powerful you. For anyone who's listening and can't see me holding Kathy's wonderful book, Kathy talks about how important it is to start with recognizing your own accomplishments. And. And. And that's the thing we become. I think we become wired from a very early age to wait until someone gives us recognition. Right? Until someone says, well done, Octavia. Oh, wow, Kathy, you did that right. And that's great when that happens. And often a lot of things move forward when we get that validation, whether it's a job offer or a promotion or an award or whatever it is. But what underpins all of that is everything. That's the magic. It's the way you show up for yourself. It's the way you consistently keep moving forward, and that's where we can miss that magic when, especially, we feel like we're not where we want to be yet, or we're a work in progress. So that's why I think this is such an important topic.

We could not agree more. And I would even go so far as to say it all emanates from that. If. And if we demean ourselves, diminish ourselves, say we're behind, you know, nobody wants to fall on their face, and we all have. Nobody wants to be shamed in the workplace. Nobody wants to have an idea shot down. Nobody loves this. We're human beings. But I think for so many, what's missing is the resilience to say, wow, that hurt. That is not what I signed up for to do today. To be humiliated in a meeting or to be passed over. I think the problem is where we punctuate that, that we end it there. You know, I always say human beings only look at the tip of what's at their tip, the tip of their nose, not the arc of the whole experience. That. Okay, I learned something very valuable from that. But I'm interested, Octavia, since, as you said, we both live and breathe this. And I have my ideas about why people don't recognize their value.

Can you.

I didn't prep you for this. I never do for my poor guests. I just spring it on you. But if you had to say three underlying reasons why people really don't see their value or their worth, and I'm interested. Did you always see your worth? Because I. I think I struggled to. I think I saw it, and then I got a little slapped down. Don't be a braggart. I don't like how this is looking. Little too confident there.

But.

But can you tell us a little bit about your journey and where you recognize this essential tenet?

Yeah, of course. And no, I definitely didn't always recognize my worth. And today I often have to be reminded. I have to coach myself or talk to others sometimes to. To reinforce certain things because we're all human. And I think there are a couple of things to it. First of all, there can be things that we underestimate because they come naturally to us or they just seem obvious. It's like, well, or that's my job, right? I'm doing what.

That's not a talent. That's a skill. I learned it in school. So what?

Yeah. Yeah. Or it's just something that I. I do. I don't hold that much value in it because I'm focused on the things that are hard. I'm focused on the things I can't quite do yet or that I really want and I'm not doing yet. So that could be part of it. I think there's also sometimes part of it that, well, shouldn't my work speak for itself? I just had a conversation along those lines yesterday with someone who I was coaching through an important conversation she needs to have with her boss. And she was just saying, I just wish that my work would stand alone for itself. And I had to remind her, your work does stand for itself. Your work is the most important thing. But also it's important for you to use your voice and talk about what you want to do next, not just what you've accomplished as well.

Good point. Good point.

That's what matters. And you also have to remember when you do a good job, especially when you're on a team, the ripple effects of that are felt really broadly. Right. And so it can be. And often leaders are focused on what isn't working. That's what they're there for. They're there to problem solve and troubleshoot and to put out fires and to fix things. And so because our energy is drawn along Those ways, in terms of the people we work alongside, but also for us, ourselves. We're always thinking about, what do I need to do next? We then underestimate the things that are working well, have worked well. We're moving through because we're always focused on the next. And then sometimes there are societal or cultural lenses that impact that I know myself. I felt the need to not shine too brightly often and. And to dim my light sometimes. Not to be too ambitious or not to be too overly confident. It's really interesting as a. As a mother and parent. I have two teenagers, but I remember my eldest was in kindergarten, and I was able to get an afternoon off work to go and volunteer in her class. And at the end of the day, I was like, how do you deal with that? And she was like, what, Mom? I was like, all those boys that are shouting loudly, dominating the attention of the teacher. And I don't want to put it completely on gender lines, because it isn't, but it was a real eye opener to me to just see how certain classmates had no problem with using their voice and getting attention and reaching for what they wanted. And then others were much more subdued.

She noticed that. Had she even noticed because we're the fish in the water. We don't see the water.

No. She had become conditioned to show many.

Things she can put in a kindergarten. Soon, you know, I'm gonna come and read, and then I'm gonna watch everything. The dynamics. That's interesting, that is.

And that was now 10 years ago, but it really resonated with me. I was like, oh, my goodness. Because as an adult in work, I can see those dynamics playing out in not the exact same way, not the exact same behavior, but. But similar tendencies. And so I think the older we also get, the less we want to make a mistake. As you. As you alluded to earlier, we want to get things right. We want to do things well. And so it becomes sometimes even harder if we feel like we're working towards something, to have the confidence to actually articulate what we're doing as we're doing it, until we know that it's a done deal.

This is genius. I say this a lot, but I just want to insert this. Octavia, if I could, again, particularly with women, but I have a lot of male clients, and they struggle, and often it's cultural and societal how they were raised. But I do want to say this. I have learned that if we can stay, state what we've done as fact, it is the energy of braggarty. People say to me, I don't want to sound like a braggart. That word. I'd be a millionaire if I had a dollar for every. Every time someone said I don't want to be sound like a bragger. I just want to give a quick tip. It's in my TEDx talk. Time to brave up. We'll link to it, but I give it to every client, which is this. Sit quietly this weekend with a pad in front of you or a laptop, whatever you want. Your device. And I want you to think about the 20 things you've done in your life that you are most proud of. Not your mother, not your boss, not your spouse, you. And that could be. I was 8 and I had a lemonade stand and I made $100 and I gave it to. I don't care what it is. It's what makes you the most proud that you know you did that no one could take away from you. A lot of people tell me, women in particular, but men too. Well, I don't want to say that on LinkedIn. Why not? Well, someone may say I didn't do it well. So I say did you do it or did you not do it? And they say, well, sometimes I just led the team. You didn't just lead it, of course you're not going to steal the credit from your team. But you, you strategically led it. You got the resources for it, you got the attention for it, you got the buy in for it. So if you state it as a fact, like for me one of them would be, I had an 18 year corporate career, high level. So I've lived the challenges high level people live. Then I became a therapist. So I go more deeply than other coaches. So there's two other. But these are facts and I don't feel uncomfortable saying them because they're simply facts. Similar to, I have brown, brown hair. Well, gray hair, but that's dyed.

But anyway, too much information.

But do you understand what I mean?

It absolutely. It's fact.

It doesn't make me feel like I'm conceited. What do you think about that?

Oh, absolutely. It is so important to do. And the thing is those facts start to fade over time, right? They, they do. They're the, the, the, the poignancy of them become less and less to us personally over time because often we think, oh well, that was then. Or to your point about LinkedIn, that doesn't perhaps have correlation to what I'm doing now. That doesn't even belong on my resume. That doesn't matter to anybody. Else, it matters to you because it shapes who you are. And there is so much that underpins us that might be invisible to someone else. They don't know your narrative. And I firmly believe personal branding starts with owning your narrative unapologetically and embracing it all. And knowing that a LinkedIn profile or a personal website or a bio or a resume really is the tip of the iceberg. It's like the highlights, which is fantastic, but there is so much depth and resonance underneath that which is uniquely yours. You know, as I said in my first book, Prep, Push, Pivot, your career is the most valuable and the most personal investment you will ever make. It belongs to you. It's a compounding investment. Whether you are leveraging every component part now doesn't matter. Those component parts all make you who you are. And we have to recognize our past, but also pay attention to our present.

I know I'm speaking to a genius when, in one sentence, there's 17 questions that come to mind. So I'm going to not give you 17, but I want to amplify and ask two things from that. The very first thing is, I think, that I learned when I was a vice president, things weren't going well emotionally, that networking was hard because I didn't like who I was in that role or what I was doing. And I think for many people, they're in a career or a role or an organization or a plateau that makes them feel less than. And in that moment, again, we only look at the tip of our noses. They don't feel there's anything good to talk about, because where they are in the moment is painful or less than. So hold that thought. I want to hear what you tell people about this. But the second thing is, I would say this. It's our trials and tribulations, as well as our amazing accomplishments and accolades that make us who we are. And I always say, you know, you are truly unlike anyone else on this planet. Yes, there are. There are marketing managers and finance directors, but nobody's doing it like you, with your mindset, with your history, your trajectory. But I think the challenge is people want to hide. They think it's a dirty little secret, the challenges they've had. And I think both you and I, Octavia, I mean, I publicize my challenges. You know, that I got laid off in a brutal way after 9, 11, that I was sexually harassed. There was gender bias there. There was hard stuff.

Yes.

That I, you know, got defensive in one very important meeting, and it was really kind of the kiss of death. Not, don't get defensive in front of the president who's, you know, criticizing your work doesn't go well. But these are part of who I am and what I learned from. So what I would suggest for everyone who's listening, don't make those hard things your dirty little secret that you just keep inside. And it erodes your self love and self trust. It's who you are. And the question is, how have you grown from it? How are you using it? What do you think about all that?

Yes, I was going to say. And you just said the word. It actually is growth, that discomfort that we might feel either in a role that doesn't feel aligned or a work relationship that that isn't exactly what we want it to be, or just feeling that we're not using our fullest potential. That's something I felt at multiple points over my career so far. That growth is so uncomfortable in the moment, but it's so important because that's actually what helps you identify where the misalignment is. And you might not be able to snap your fingers and change it immediately, but it's giving you indic. It's giving you indicators of what you want more of or less of or what you need to explore or what might need to change for you. And then ultimately it's up to us to set our intentions in terms of how we do that. Not all of us can just quit a job without something else to go to. Not all of us can immediately change direction if that's something that we need to do, but we can start to take steps towards what we want more of. Absolutely.

I want you to repeat that. This part, you know, to me it's. I'll say it. It's a spiritual concept that if we don't overly attach to outcomes that we think are essential. I need to rock this interview. Maybe you don't. Maybe this is not the role you really want. But how do you know if we don't overly attach, then something that's coming at us that hurts or is embarrassing is what you're saying. It's a sign of misalignment. Yes, but most people, and I certainly was this way. I didn't see it that way. I saw it as a failure or. Wow. Right? I, I could. Didn't even advance after the first conversation in that series of interviews. Yeah, well, you would have been miserable at that organization, probably. So I hope, folks, you hear this in the spirit Octavia is offering it, which is, I think the word is energy, where you're using Your highest energy, your most exciting energy, the resonance to say, you know, is this hard thing really something I'm supposed to keep silent and feel shame about, or is it growth?

Yes.

You agree?

I completely agree. And also, it's not always easy to be transparent while we're growing. And sometimes you feel, yeah, we're licking.

Our wounds in the corner.

Yeah, we are. We're licking our wounds and we have to take care of ourselves in that process. But it's so interesting when you, when you do shave. And if it's just something that happened yesterday or a week ago or a month ago or a year ago or a decade ago, whatever the time frame, there will be someone who needs to hear that. Now, that just happened to me this morning right before I logged in to get ready for this podcast. I, I, you know, posted a LinkedIn newsletter and someone commented and I shared a story about a challenge I had. Yes, well, it's thanks to you that I'm doing this, but we'll get to that, Kathy. But, you know, I shared a challenge that I'd had and how I'd overcome it. And someone commented and said, this is just what I needed to hear today. And so I, you know, I replied to the comment and then she left me a voice message, like on LinkedIn, to talk about it further. And I wasn't thinking yesterday when I was writing this newsletter about the impact that this one anecdote, you know, might have on somebody, but it did. And that's someone who just happened to tell me. There are a lot of people who are observing what you do, whether it's in the workplace or looking at you from a distance, and they're learning from you. And it's really important to also remember that, because even while we're trying to get through the day or where we want to be, there is someone who would love to be in the position that you're in or can learn from something that you've experienced because they're navigating something similar.

That's so beautiful. You know what it reminds me of in that job, that vice president job. And if I've said this a million times, people, please forgive me. Episode 300 and whatever, I repeat. But I did not feel like a good leader because I was getting my, my rump kicked. I really did not feel like a role model. And so being laid off after 9, 11 plus, not really feeling my highest self, I was really hurting. And you. Several years later, I got on LinkedIn and the very first recommendation, I still have it there, there it Is. Was from a lovely young woman who was not in my department. But as I remember it, she said, Kathy was always someone I admired as a leader I would want to be. I literally cried and put my head down on the desk. Because that recommendation healed years of pain. Yes.

And you didn't know at the time?

I had no idea.

In your immediate orbit, I had no idea she.

She even knew, you know, anything about how I operated and how generous to say that. So the whole point is, look at the impact we're making that we don't know. Yes. Positive and negative. Sometimes we are role models, you know, for whatever behavior. Number two, look at the impact of those words on me. She healed a myriad of things that were really probably going to stay put with me inside. That I was a bad leader. Yeah.

And you were not. But it's powerful that you actually were able to recognize that. It wasn't until perhaps you heard that that you were able to reconcile this.

Exactly. I mean, look. What. So what's the tip? Give a recommendation. I always. I'm on LinkedIn constantly, and I look at people, what people are saying about that person. But also, are they giving recommendations? If they have 20, but they haven't given one, that's telling to me. There we go. That's an aside. All right, Octavia, can you tell us now we're understanding what people get wrong about personal branding. That it's icky, that it's cringy. Why should I have to do it? This is impossible for me. I don't know what my talents are. I think. And if you're listening, write down the things that you're thinking when you hear this. I don't want to have to do this, or I have no idea what I'm good at. All of which can be helped by your book, by your Audible series, by my book, by a million others books. But what would you say are the. When someone's really in that situation, I don't want to be visible. I don't want to build a personal brand. Why do I have to do this? What are three steps that are really baby steps? We're not making you go from zero to a hundred. What can they start with, Octavia? What can they do?

Well, the thing to remember also is you have a personal brand, whether you feel you're investing in it or not.

Whether you're aware of it or not. Right?

Yes. If you. If you went in the room and someone had to describe who you are and what you do, people are going to say something. They might take a guess. If they don't know, well, they'll make an assumption. So we. We have to pay attention to this whether we feel like we want to or not.