Ep 263 Celebrating 5 Years and 500K+ Downloads! of Finding Brave

Hello, everybody. Kathy here. I'm so excited to bring you this episode of Finding Brave, which celebrates two milestones that I'm very proud of. First, we're celebrating five years of the show, and secondly, we're celebrating reaching over 500,000 downloads. We're thrilled too, to be ranked in the top 1.5% of over 3 million podcasts globally and to appear in the top 100 Apple career podcasts all over the world. I'm so grateful to all of our amazing guests who have provided so much thought provoking and informative content that enriches our lives, careers and relationships. You'll hear today brief excerpts of the top 20 most popular episodes of the show since its beginning. I hope you love them and I'm very grateful to you, our wonderful listeners, who have been so supportive and encouraging over the past years. Thank you again for all your interest and support of the show. It's been a true joy to bring it to you. I and my wonderful team are sending our deepest thanks and we look forward to the next five years together. Here's to Finding Brave in your life every day. Hello, everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast, Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life. To rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week, I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of Finding Brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful and meaningful life, business and career. Episode 186 with Joseph Grenny how to have those difficult but crucial conversations with friends and colleagues. The first part is called what to do before you open your mouth. And it turns out that about 80% of the problem is pre verbal. 80% of the problem is what's happening inside of me, which no matter what kinds of diplomacy skills I might have mastered, they're not going to overcome. The fact that, frankly, I just want to prove you wrong, or that I feel defensive, or that I want to be right, or I want to punish you. And so my motivational set really trumps any skill set that I might have in getting that right. First is the beginning of the solution. Is that because I learned this in therapy and other things, you can't hide energy. Everything is energy. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm sitting here disdaining what you're saying, I can be as sweet as possible and smile. You're going to know cares if you make value statements. Who cares if you start with facts rather than accusations? None of that matters because I can see the seething look on your face, and I'm picking that up so literally, there are parts of our brain hardware that are dedicated to viewing expressions and reading expressions. There are significant parts of our cognitive real estate whose total job it is just to look at people's faces, because that has survival value. So again, the words that come out of your mouth will have part of an effect. But if there's a contradiction between what I read from your face and what I hear from your mouth, I'll trust the face. Episode 187 with Cheryl Porter, number one vocal coach on how to pivot your creative business and soar. You didn't have any range, you didn't have any power. You know, you sing like a butterfly. And then when I won my full scholarship to niu, to Northern Illinois University, and I said to myself, I said, if these people see something in me, then it wasn't all an illusion. Then I wasn't just imagining it in myself. Because if you're in high school, it's something, but go to college and the next day you get a call from the director of the music department, the vocal department said, we want you to study. We want to give you a full opera scholarship because we think you are incredible talent, and it's crazy. And that's what turned everything around, Kathy. That's what turned everything around. So I believe in the beginning, you have to believe in yourself. If you believe in yourself enough in the beginning, those people who believe in you will come along. Sometimes you have to wait for them, but you're not going to find them if you don't believe in yourself in the beginning. So for me, as a coach, I try to teach most definitely vocal technique, vocal skills, teach that voice to fly. But the most important thing that you have to teach is the soul. You can't teach the voice without teaching the spirit. The two go together. And you know that because you're a singer and you've done incredible things with your talent on multiple platforms. And you know you cannot teach the voice without teaching the soul and the spirit, and they are one. If your soul is crushed, your voice is not going to fly. If you do not believe in yourself, you're not going to be able to hit those notes. If you have any doubt whatsoever in yourself and in your talent, your vocals are not going to ever be 100% episode 190 free audio chapter number six of the most powerful you losing sight of your thrilling dream for your life with Kathy Caprino Important concepts to understand A job versus a Calling in coaching people to achieve breakthrough in their lives and careers, I've observed the powerful impact of asking oneself the question, am I longing for a job or a calling? And answering it with brutal honesty. These are two distinct professional dimensions and they're not at all the same. Thousands of people confuse them or want both at the same time. In the end, you can't go from a purposeless job to a tremendously meaningful one in one fell swoop. Years ago I read a thought provoking article on a Wall Street Job can't match a calling in life by Michael Lewis, then columnist for Bloomberg. He had some powerful insights about the differences between a calling and a job. What struck me most were two intriguing concepts. There's a direct relationship between risk and reward. A fantastically rewarding career usually requires you to take fantastic risks. And a calling is an activity you find so compelling that you wind up organizing your entire self around it, often to the detriment of your life outside of it. I couldn't agree more. Many people dream of having a fantastic and thrilling career, but in essential ways are not willing to do the work to achieve it. They often think, do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. From my experience, that is 100% wrong. Work is work and it's challenging and often frustrating, scary and confusing. But if you are thrilled with your work, it will be so well worth all the time, effort and energy you invest. Episode 192 with Anthony Trucks making a powerful identity shift that will elevate your life. What do you think about social media and followers and desperately trying to get that? What do you think? Yeah, for sure. So I think that's the thing is I don't think that anybody should tell you how to run the race until they've crossed the finish line. So there is something about having a mess. The biggest thing is if you're going to have this mess, you got to cross the finish line before you make it a message. But I believe the best people who to teach it or run the race are the ones who didn't hover over in a helicopter, but they were down on the ground stepping in potholes and you know, and having to climb to the grass and like they did it because they could be like, hey bro, don't take that left. But it's faster. Yeah, but there's A damn scorpion pit right there. Like, don't do that. You know, there's. So it's like. But you can't do it until you've got to the finish line. Because if not, I'm like, hey, guys, I'm making a left. Let's go with the scorpion pit. And I don't know what's coming. Right? So, yes, turn your message into a message because you know what to do with it. But cross the finish line after you've turned the message, after you've done something inspiring and something you're proud of. I'm. If not, then you're just in the bubble of just being the guy or the girl who's out there leading people astray. And then you'll have an issue internally of like, oh, I'm doing problems to people. And if you have any kind of integrity, you'll feel bad for wasting people's time or hurting their lives. So if you really want to get there, like, solve the problems for yourself first, then go back and, yes, it's beautiful to be able to make anything better from what you've already experienced. There's just something that's a spot that's the same thing as get to the point of loving it, the journey, and then go share this thing that you love, that people love you do. Episode 193 with April Rinni using a flux mindset to better navigate the future. This one is about our relationship to control. And the superpower is let go of the future. And a lot of people go, wait a minute, You're a futurist. You can't say that. What are you saying? To be clear, when I say we need to learn how to let go of the future, I am not saying give up. I am not saying failure. I'm not saying throw in the white towel on doomsday. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying we are so caught up in needing to control the future as we want it to play out that we actually miss all the different possible futures that may play out and how you might contribute to one of those. So riffing a little. But I want to come back because this fear, and fear in particular of change, it is at the heart of flux. And I tee it up. I mean, what's lovely is that change is messy. It's complicated. Like we love. Humans love certain kinds of changes. Changes typically that we opt into. The kinds of changes that we resist, they unravel us. We really, you know, they just make us crazy. Are typically those changes we can't control that are foisted on us often right and or they blind I mean losing my parents blindsided like it was definitely forced upon me but it wasn't the same. It was a different kind of change that's forced upon you. Like you're going to do X, Y, Z in your, in your job. But it's those changes that blindside you. It's those changes that go against your expectations. They challenge your script. They, you know, they're the kinds of things that don't. Your plans aren't going to work out like you wanted them to. And so that's where I come back and it's this through thread of the book which is when change happens particularly changes that are unexpected, unwelcome, you didn't want them. You're inclined to fear them or feel anxious about them or resist them. How do you right then and there flip the switch, flip the script and turn that challenge or the worst thing that could possibly happen because of that change into the best thing that could possibly happen. Episode 194 with Dory Clark how being a long term thinker will improve your life and career I got very into the idea of building a portfolio career around the time I was writing my book Entrepreneurial you and this was really. Is that 2015? No. What year was that? It came out in 2017. And I really was interested in this mostly as a risk mitigation strategy because sometimes things take a long time to percolate. But in 2001 I was laid off from my job. I was a newspaper reporter and I was late laid off on Monday September 10, 2001 which is a not great day to lose your job and then be looking for a job. And so, you know, it kind of scars you. You're like, oh wow, things can change on a dime. And to not have any income, I realized from what I had perceived as a secure job was really terrifying. And so I realized that what we need to do if we really want security, I mean we know this when we're buying stocks, right, is you don't just buy one stock, you invest in a portfolio. That's why you buy an index fund or what have you. And similarly, we need to do the same thing in our careers. The way that we're investing the resources we have, we need to do the same thing with how we're bringing in the money in the first place. And so thinking about what are the different pillars that you can create. So I wrote entrepreneurial you as a way of exploring that and just thinking about ways that we can make ourselves more economically resilient. And the good news is Covid kind of bore it out. I mean, I was not predicting a pandemic, obviously, but I was thinking, all right, if there's a recession, if there's a downturn, if there's a problem, how can we have different non correlated income streams? And that turned out to be useful. Episode 195 with Dr. Fred Luskin how to forgive someone when you feel you can't, you only tell somebody not to take it personally if they're taking it too personally. So it's not that you don't take something personally. You create a balance between personal and impersonal. That's the goal. So if you take something too personally, you get enraged and you become a nasty like vengeful person. If you take something too impersonally, then you go like the way you said, it's just my karma, man, I'm not going to do anything about it. Neither of those is effective. They're both ineffective. They're both like pretty limited as human responses. What you want to have is both. You want to have your own storyline and your own suffering to learn from and adapt from. And you also want to recognize that you're part of a human experience where suffering and difficulty are common. So you cultivate compassion for more than just your own little drama. That's what not taking it personally is about. It's like if you didn't just see your sexual harassment, but at that time maybe you empathize with Monica Lewinsky, you know, who was being sexually harassed at work or, you know what I'm saying, Like there's thousands and thousands of women who are every day being like denigrated at work. It's not so much just anger, it's a deep well of sympathy and compassion and. But that keeps your brain open to find solutions, not just punish. It's a very different experience. Episode 196 with Jason Mark Campbell how to sell with love and love doing it if you're an artist, I often suggest people to get agency because your incentives are way too lined up for you to discount yourself. But if you're offering coaching, I know there's a lot of coaches that listen to your show or any kind of consultant or in any business really. You have to remind yourself that if you're mission driven, if you're an impact driven entrepreneur, then every time you discount yourself is you're limiting the potential energy you can reinvest within your business. And that includes within your own self care your own development, you're cutting your mission short. Like, let's say one client you discount by 20%. That extra 20% that you could have collected could have went into some more marketing, could have went into some better technology, could have went into improving the service delivery. And so now you've cut your mission. And part of that mission means that you need to be highly functional, highly efficient, and best person that you can be to be able to bring that mission forward. Episode 197 with Kathy Caprino the Five Biggest Blunders Career Changers Make I want to leave you with something I hope is really helpful and it's a five step process to take. Go through these steps. Don't skip them, don't fly through them. Go through these steps if you want to make any kind of change whatsoever in your life. But this is particularly true with careers. The first is step back for an empowered perspective of who you are. I'm going to read them all five of them. Then I'm going to tell you a little about them. Step back for an empowered perspective of who you are. Number two is let go of the thinking patterns and behaviors that keep you stuck so important. Number three, say yes to your most compelling visions. Number four, explore it and try it on first. And finally, create it smart with specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and time bound goals and with an accountability partner. So let me go through these a little more. Step back for an empowered perspective when we want change, most often we're moving away from something and often that's because we've broken down in it. We feel holy crow, I'm I can't succeed, I can't make the money I want. I just got passed over for a promotion or someone 20 years my junior just took my job or I've interviewed 20 times 20 places and I don't move forward. That's the mindset we're coming from. I want to remind you, you are amazing. Every one of us is. Every one of us is like a thumbprint, absolutely special and unique. And you have talents and amalgam of gifts and abilities and passions that no one else has. But you have to have an empowered perspective of yourself to realize that. So get some outside help. Ask some people that love you, that have given you a recommendation on LinkedIn. Ask your friends. What do you think is special or unique? Ask an old boss who is a big fan. What do you think I bring to the table that other people don't. Get that empowered perspective before you try to move forward. Episode 198 with George Grombacker. What's really holding us back from earning and having exponentially more money? I very much am of the mind that cost is what you pay and value is what you get because I know it to be true. And I think that great professionals should be compensated greatly, obviously. And that's all going to worthiness again. But we need to be super mindful of the fees and the expenses that we are paying. And as long as they are reasonable and we're receiving value for that, well then that's totally fine. So that's just being an active participant in our finances and that seems potentially very, very basic. But then you look at the other unforced errors that we're making and a lot of them are going to be lifestyle related, which I keep getting away from money, but you know how it goes. The cost of divorce, that's probably the biggest creditor that we have on our financ finances. So being in bad relationships and toxic relationships, negative relationships, getting divorced, that has a horrible impact on our personal finances, which is obviously above and beyond just personal finance. But potentially personal finance leads to bad relationships or vice versa. It's kind of a chicken and the egg kind of a thing. And then also recognizing that our brains, while they've kept us alive for a very long time, so we're grateful for that. They're terrible at helping us to invest. Scared because it's all risk. And what right is that it? Well, the same part of our brain that responds to moral danger is the part of our brain that responds to financial loss. The amygdala, you know, the fear. Right. Looking at when the tiger's coming out of the cave. And so when I see the stock market go down, my brain says, oh my gosh, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. But intellectually I know that I'm supposed to buy low and sell when things are high. So stuff like that blows us up. And a lot of the time that's a hard thing for people to recover from. Putting too much trust in outside advisors, even though I'm telling you that potentially an outside advisor is going to be a key component to your overall success in every area of life. But see exhibit A, Bernie Madoff. Obviously we need to make sure that we are checking in and trusting but verifying kind of a thing that these people are not charging us too much or they're not stealing from us and that everything that we're expecting to happen is actually happening. Episode 201 with Heather Hubbard are the stories you've been Told, supporting, or suppressing you. So much of it is, I believe, it's in constantly giving yourself little bitty things, little bitty areas to push yourself outside of your comfort zone and to treat it like an experiment to say, well, what's going to happen? Right? Like not trying to figure out, well, here's what's going to happen. Because that's what most of us say, I can't do that. Because that would work for you. Because that's nice for you. Because as opposed to saying, this is what I like, this is my hypothesis. I think this is what's going to happen for X, Y and Z. But I'm going to do this test and I'm going to experiment, and we'll see. We'll see. And the experiment doesn't have to start by being quitting my job. You can do lots of other experiments, but it's. But it's when you get in that mode of experimentation, that's when you start to realize, oh, it's not a big deal to experiment. And the more you get in that practice and the more you do it, it's what gives you the freedom and the courage to then make those bigger experiments. Because you realize that even then you can always come back from anything. Nothing is ever permanent. But when you're in the mindset of you're afraid to experiment at all and to see what's going to happen and you just need to prove your point, then of course, you're not going to be able to do the big things. Episode number 202 with Laura Khalil building greater business success by answering three key questions. The easier you understand that message, the faster you know, the faster you're going to grow, and the faster you're going to grow. I don't know. Is the ego sort of hanging on to needing to be liked? If so, maybe evaluate that. But one of the lessons that I learned very early on in business is someone said to me, Laura, 30% of people are just never going to like you. And just get used to about 30%, they're not going to be crazy about you. Don't focus on. Great tip that you got. No one ever said that. I kind of had to learn it the hard way. Oh, she doesn't like me. This one doesn't like my approach at all. Okay. And we feel bad. We feel bad when someone doesn't like us. But when you realize that's just nature. Do you like everyone? I don't like everyone. That's normal. It doesn't make them a bad person. It simply means they challenge our values in ways that are not compatible. It doesn't make them evil. It doesn't make them wrong. It just makes them not right for us. Episode 204 with Karen Catlin how to be a Better Ally at Work and Build an Inclusive Culture we don't see the privilege when we just have it. It is invisible to us when we have it because we just assume everyone else is experiencing life in a similar way. Yet when we have our privilege pointed out, we often get defensive. And I think that's because we think that when someone says, oh, you have so much privilege or you're privileged, we equate that to them calling us lazy, that we've never had to work hard, everything handed to us on a silver platter. But that's not what it's about. It's simply that it's a set of unearned benefits you have because you're part of a social group. Yeah, I'll just call it a social group. Generally speaking, it's unearned benefits you have that help you navigate life in a very different way. And I do think it's important for people to realize not everyone is going to experience the workplace in the same way you are because of your privilege. I mean, just one example of let's think about this pandemic lifestyle we're most of us are living in right now. We have privilege if we can work from home. We have privilege if we have high speed Internet. We have privilege if we have a decent quiet space in our home to be doing our work from. And not everyone has that. It's so important. As I think back on the beginning of the pandemic, I talked to people who were living in small apartments with roommates and didn't even have a desk in their bedroom. Like, how am I going to work from home without these, without this key part of working? So there's a lot of privilege as we think about just even our recent work style. But of course, so much more. Now, at the very beginning you mentioned this list of 50 ways you might have privilege in the workplace. It's from my book Better Allies, but it's also a free download PDF from my website, episode 205 with Kathryn Morgan how to build financial well being into the heart of your life and work. Shame is your sense of self. I am bad because I am in debt. That's shame. Guilt is more to do with you've done something, it's a behavior you've done and you can kind of get over. Yeah. So that's massive, right? Because if you're holding on to guilt and shame, the first question to ask yourself is, does this guilt or does this shame belong to me? Like, does it even belong to you or has it just been passed down the generations? And that's a really interesting narrative that we choose to use with ourselves sometimes. Because when I was in my 20s, in these debt cycles, I used money and I massively overspent on clothes. Why? Because I had a huge negative relationship with body, I had anorexia, I was bulimic in my teenage years and my twenties and that was the way I kept in that cycle of negative self worth, was using money to keep me stuck in that cycle. And the reason I was staying stuck in the cycle was because it was familiar. And the brain loves familiarity. The brain loves to keep you stuck in patterns of familiarity. But a lot of the guilt and shame that I carried around money, a lot of the beliefs that money is greedy and selfish and can be used to manipulate others, wasn't my belief. This was coming from parents beliefs around money. And the day I asked myself that question, whose shame does this belong to? I was like, it's not even mine, it's literally my mum's. I'm carrying my mum's shame and guilt around money. And if you follow the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton, he talks about epigenetics and how literally beliefs can be passed through our DNA cellularly, you know, cellular level. Yeah. So anytime someone says, like, I am bad with debt or I. Or they feel shame or they feel guilt, I always ask them, like, who does this belong to? You know, is this time to give this back with love and appreciation and gratitude for how it served you, but is it time to give that back because it's no longer serving you? Episode 207 with Amy Morin how to build the mental strength you need to reach your great potential. How do we know what mental strength looks like? What is it? A lot of people will ask that because they'll say, oh, I'm depressed, so therefore I must be mentally weak, or if I have anxiety, I'm not strong enough. But that's not the case at all. It's sort of like again, if we were to look at physical strength and physical health, two separate things, you could have physical strength and physical health. Yeah, right. You could have a physical health problem, maybe have diabetes, but you can still choose to go to the gym and lift weights. Mental strength and mental health is the same. You might have a mental health problem like diabetes, but you can still make choices every day that help you become stronger. So mental strength is a choice. It's all about what you choose to do every day, about getting control of the way you think, feel and behave. So how do you respond to self doubt? How do you deal with negative thoughts? How do you deal with those catastrophic predictions? How do you deal with a bad mood? Do you get yourself out when you're angry? How do you calm yourself down? And then our actions that we take. So maybe you don't feel motivated, but what do you do? Episode 209 with Tony Vlahos how to tell a riveting story about who you are and why that matters. Can you tell me how you define. It's gotta have soul. The story has to have soul. Can you define that? Yeah, I think there's so many components to that. You know, fundamentally we're talking about a story with characters and emotion. The characters are going to be human. And when we start unpacking what a human is, we're talking about someone who desperately wants to be understood and heard and touch people and find meaning in their lives and hopefully create meaning in the lives of others. Otherwise, why do anything, you know? And I think now we're beginning to bleed into the aspect of soul. You know, the stuff that says the spirit that I have needs to be shared in some way. And we often don't understand that about ourselves. We again, especially. Well, at least in the corporate context that. That I look at the world through most days, you know, there seems to be no room for that. We focus on other things. We forget that there's something larger about us as people. And I think there's that nature that ultimately the greatest story has to unleash and allow to go out and touch people. And that's what we're really focused on. Episode 210 with Michael Bungay Stanier how to begin doing something that matters. And so the practical version of that is to go. How do you set a worthy goal? A goal that is thrilling and important and daunting. And those three elements are all kind of equally important in my mind. Thrilling is kind of what lights you up and it gets you excited, makes you rub your hands and go, yeah, that sounds amazing. And it's also an antidote against obligation because you know, how society and ourselves as well, we create obligations. I should be doing this by now. I ought to be doing this. And thrilling allows you just to own what gets you super excited. Important is about serving the world. How do you make a contribution so it's not Just the worst of self development. Sometimes the worst of coaching is it's all just me, me, me, and me expressing my inner self. And I'm like, okay, I don't have time for that if that's all it is. Because I was like, you're part of a bigger scheme here. You've got to be serving the world. You've got to be giving more to the world than you take. So that's important. I need you to repeat that. I was sitting here thinking, do you think a worthy goal has to be that you're ambitious for yourself plus the world? You answered it. Can you repeat that? You don't have time. If it's just. If it's just self indulgent and it's just the kind of me, me, me thing, I'm like, you know what? There's plenty of people teaching that, which is like, follow the secret and manifest your mansion in your car. And I'm like, that's not the world I want. I want a better world. And I want people going, how do I give more to the world than I take? That's a phrase from a woman called Jacqueline Novogratz who wrote a book called A Manifesto for a Moral Revolution. I love it. Give more to the world than you take. And then daunting is important because that's where growth is. That's when you step out to the edge of your confidence and your competence and your sense of who you are now to give yourself a chance to become the next best version of yourself. Because the literature around adult development is we kind of move up steps within a stage, and then we leap to the next stage of development. And I want people to be moving up those steps and I want them to be leaping to the next stage. Because the more evolved we are, the better versions of we are, the better our world is episode 211 with Wendy Pease stepping out from corporate life to entrepreneurship by buying a business. Yeah, I mean, that is something that is. That's a. That's communication style between men and women. You know, men will say, yeah, I can do it. Women will, you know, go. You know, they don't want to put it out there unless they're absolutely sure they've done it. So they have to stand behind the words, you know, when we're talking in generalities. Yeah. The research always also shows that the women led companies, the big companies, tend to grow faster and do better, and the companies with women on their board are much more profitable. So it's really ironic to me that the women do Better yet, they're less positive about saying they can do it. And they're also more ashamed or embarrassed when they don't perform as well. Episode 212 with Dr. Nate Zinser how confidence is the key and how you can get it, build it and keep it. Socialization is the process of fitting into a group or a culture and becoming normalized within that. Now, to a certain degree, we are all social beings, us humans. We do live in groups, we do need one another. But I think it was, you know, Bertrand Russell who pointed out, you know, after a very certain small degree of shared experiences, being socialized is just a formula for mediocrity. So Barbara Tella was right. You do have to resist some socialization. Those seven deadly sins that I just read off are points in our acculturation, points in our socialization that tend to retard, inhibit, limit our sense of certainty about ourselves as we pursue what matters to us. So we got to be honest about which one of those are hanging us up. And we got to be willing to let it go and cultivate an alternative belief about that that feeds our energy and motivates us to make better decisions with how we manage our memories and how we think about ourselves and how we construct those still photos and those short videos in the wonderful video production studio that is our imagination. Episode 218 with Stu Massengill Find your direction and fall in love with what you do is one. We have to be really honest with ourselves, which I think is sometimes the hardest part. Like, we have to really ask ourselves, are you actually happy in what you're doing? Are you actually enjoying this? Or do you really not like what you're doing? And like, deep honesty is where beautiful things come from. So I think as we have that honest conversation with ourselves, figure out what are some of the things that we've always been pulled towards that increase our energy. All of these things. It's allowing ourselves to go, try these things, things. And I think the third piece, to answer your question, where people get stuck is we get in this place of analyzing or we go, I think I might like that. And from the outside, it looks cool, it looks great, and I might really like it. But what if I try it and I don't like it and then I got to stay there or let me try this other thing. It's like a really simple analogy I give people is it's like think of the first time you found out you liked pizza. It's like, did someone pull it out of the oven? You smelled it you looked at the toppings, your friend came by and was like, pizza's awesome. And you were like, oh my God, I love pizza. It's like, that's not how anybody found out they liked pizza. You tried the pizza and then you found out you liked it. You know what I mean? And so I think sometimes we try to analyze and think and wonder what these things are going to taste like and feel like in our life. When I think the truest sense is the way you get clarity in your life is through experiencing, not thinking. You got to experience things, you got to try things, and that'll bring you clarity. And I think oftentimes we get stuck in this place of thinking what it's going to be like, but you got to actually go try it. And as you and I have spoke about before, you can try it in a way that's not super risky. You can try in a way where it's like, okay, I think I like this thing. Let me go volunteer on the weekend and try that. If we even need to. Let me take a week off from work and go shadow someone at this other industry or company that I want to work for and just see what it's like. But if we're really not happy, we got to find ways that we can try these other things that we think we might like in our life in a way that's not super risky. And then once we try that, that's when we get clarity and then we make a decision from there. Hello, Kathy here, and thanks so much for tuning into today's episode. One quick thing I'd love to share before you go is about my new digital training program for organizations and professionals called the Most Powerful you, which is the companion to my book the Most Powerful seven Bravery Boosting Paths to Career Bliss. I'm so thrilled that recently an international division of the United nations brought in the Most Powerful you program as a training tool for members of their staff, and I'm speaking with other global organizations right now to do the same. This program brings to organizations real world transformative training for leaders, teams and professionals to help them thrive at the highest level in their work and projects. So here's my Please take a look at what I'm training in the most powerful you. And you can find that@mostpowerful you.com and if you feel the content would be instrumental for you and your team, I hope you'll ask your leaders and DEI managers to bring in this training program to your company. It's truly transformational for work cultures everywhere and it generates amazing results. Thanks so much. And here's to you becoming the most powerful you. Thanks so much for joining us today. And please don't forget to check out finding brave.org for more programs, resources and tips. And tune in next time for your weekly dose of Finding Brave.