Finding Brave 147: Reclaim Your Time With Strategic (And Affordable) Outsourcing, Pete Mockaitis

Okay.

All right. Hello, everybody. Finding Brave today. How are you? Kathy Caprino here. This is the second amazing interview I've done today, so I feel like so darn blessed to be in the Finding Brave world. And I'm so excited to have the amazing, inspiring Pete Macaitis with us. Hello. Hello, Pete. Thank you for taking the time. I know.

Oh, thank you, Kathy.

Little one running around and. And I want to tell you people, I was on Pete's show. How to Be awesome at yout Job is the title, right? Mm, I got that right. And holy cow. Well, you're gonna hear about this, but you probably have more downloads than I've ever heard of. Of a podcast. I'm flattered. And it's a great. It was such a fun talk. You know, when you do this a lot, there's some people that kind of just show up and ask questions, but they're not really listening. And I thought we had a really rich conversation, so I'm so grateful.

Oh, thank you. Well, I thought so too. And so I was. I was pleased to chat with Kathy some more.

All right. And we are talking about a very different topic. I have not covered this in 142 or 45 episodes and it is how to reclaim your time by strategically. And I'm going to throw in affordably outsourcing. Such an important issue. And there's. We're going to. Pete's going to talk all about it, but there's so much resistance to it. There's so much confusion about it. There's so many missteps. I think we take doing it. So we have so much to learn from you.

Can't wait.

But everybody, let me tell you about Pete. Pete Makaitis is an award winning trainer and coach who helps professionals perform optimally that doesn't roll off the tongue so well at work. His work has been featured in the New York Times, Forbes Inc. And more. Pete has delivered one on one coaching to over 700 leaders hailing from world class organizations such as Google, FedEx, Amazon, Apple, Anheuser Busch and the United Nations. Now I'd love to hear about that. Fifty countries and every Ivy League university. Fascinating. He began his career at Bain & Co. And currently hosts the how to be awesome at your job podcast. So this is the number people. The show has been downloaded over 13 million times and consistently ranks as the top business show in Apple podcasts. And you live in Chicago with your two little babies and your wife. How. How old are they again?

About two and a half and one and a half.

That's a lot. That's a lot of baby. How do you seem so calm?

Well, it's just fake. It. It's a total sham.

See? So honest. I get it. I live that world. All right, Pete, I have to say we have, you know, we have a prep. Prep sheet that guests fill out, and I love that because it's what they want to talk about. But you have three key bullets, and other guests write those bullets. And I read them and know. Okay, this is what we got to focus on. But I want to read out loud your three bullets, one slider.

Thank you.

And I want to riff on those if we could, and do more. So, number one, Pete says it takes courage to let go of tasks and give to another. The first hurdle is your own internal resistance. Build in safeguards. I mean, I feel like, why didn't I talk to you 10 years ago? But because, darn it, did it take me a long time to do this. Number two, when hiring, don't just have them tell you what they can do, but rather show you what they can do. Oh, you know what? I read that wrong when I first read it. I thought it was, don't you just tell them what to do. You show them what to do. But you mean the other way, don't you?

I think it's true that way as well.

I was like, how am I not showing? And I think I wasn't. Number three. I've relied on this type of help to build my. Pete says to build my show from 0 to 13 million downloads, and I trust them with just about everything. Okay, I gotta learn, so I'm gonna ask you the questions I need to understand. What is this internal resistance we have? And we're talking entrepreneurs here, right? Or people who. Anybody's launching anything, a podcast. Anybody who needs help.

Yeah, I guess I think about it from an entrepreneurial perspective myself, but I think it's true of folks in all kinds of roles. And, you know, I mean, I think we can have trouble. Internal resistance. Letting go of any number of responsibilities and asking for some help. Maybe it's help cleaning your house. Maybe it's help taking care of your kids. Maybe it's help doing some recruiting or any number of jobs or pieces of work that need to get done in your professional, employed life. It takes courage. And when you are accustomed to doing something yourself, to then let go and invite someone else to take it on. That could be challenging.

Well, I want to tell you, I was looking for the actual number. This issue is power gap. Number three of the seven Damaging power gaps, professional women face of reluctance to ask for what you want and deserve.

Yes, some.

So I know why women do that. And the most powerful for you, the book talks about when you can't ask for what you want. And it's all that you said, help from your spouse, help from your grown children. Look, you're living here now during the pandemic, could you cook a meal? Could you do your own laundry? But it's also, I think, understanding. When should I stop being a perfectionistic over functioner? When am I doing too much? And that for women is particularly hard. But can you talk about. So you're saying we have a resistance. Is it that we are afraid to let. Like you said, I trust my people with just about everything. Are people afraid to hand over important tasks because we're afraid others are going to blow it? What is it? What's going on? Why we don't outsource, why we don't get VAs and all sorts of help?

You know, I think there's any number of points of resistance there. I mean for one, I think that, you know, we tend to do things that we find to be important and then to stop doing them, it feels off, it feels a little iffy in terms of. And the fears can be numerous, like are they going to do it right? Am I going to be, am I going to lose touch in terms of and forget how to do these things myself? Are my skills going to atrophy? Am I really the kind of person who outsourced their, their, their cleaning? Like it will I no longer be self sufficient, self reliant? I'm not one of those rich people, you know, who are going to have their butlers and their mansions and you know, that's not who I am. Or are they going to do it right or the way I would do it or up to my standards? Are they going to embarrass me or screw something up in a way that is sort of irrecoverable and disastrous and embarrassing and ah, you sort of. We can very easily create these nightmare scenarios in our own imaginations.

Can I bring it home to a real situation when I look at what's hard for me to outsource? It wouldn't be something like podcast editing because I don't know how to do. Won't be reaching out to my guests with an email confirming here's your link because I know, you know, I don't have particular talents with that. But when it comes to for instance, social media, social media engagement, one of the challenges the bugaboos for me is I always want to be authentic. So the idea that someone could be writing like, what I will not outsource is someone responding to a heartfelt question. I get on LinkedIn, you know, I'm going to quit my job and I listen to you. Hey, Sally, will you write back to them? Because that doesn't feel right to me. But why I'm bringing it up is I think there's some piece of authenticity that people feel they're giving up. If certainly what they think should be their voice and their thoughts is being handled by someone else. Would you agree with that?

I think that, that that is a real issue and you're zeroing in on the some key thinking associated with what should you outsource and what should you not outsource?

Yeah, let's talk about that.

And in terms of authentic voice messaging stuff, I think that's a prime category for something to not outsource. Now, at the same time, I think you can make some inroads there. If so, for example, if I have a recurring, five recurring requests, and I do, like, in my inbox, like, I think it's totally appropriate for, let's say, people pitching to be guests on my podcasts, I think it's totally appropriate to say, hey, here is the script and the template for the response when someone wants to be on the show.

Because it's not so much tailored.

Yeah, you know, thanks so much for your interest. Here's our process, you know, and good luck, blah, blah, blah, or vice versa. When I'm inviting somebody, someone to be on the show, it's like, I have a similar perspective there in terms of I think you've got great stuff. I think our listeners need to hear about it, and I think our show is pretty cool. So check it out and, you know, tell us what your decision is. So I let one of my producers handle that for me, and it took a while, you know, for me to let go. It's like, ooh, I don't know, does that seem like, oh, you're outsourcing this to your lackey because you're too busy and too good for me, when I'm the big deal author that you want to have on and you can even take the time with your own self, it's like, first of all, I don't think anybody's thinking that at all. I think they're just, they're thrilled to.

Hear from your team. I don't care if it's Joe, Sally, you know, you're right.

You know, so.

So can I. Can I highlight this? I mean, this is a not nice no and a not fluffy word, but sometimes you have canned responses.

Oh, sure.

And there's not people. There's nothing wrong with that. If, if truly you're getting a thousand of these requests or, you know, inquiries every six months, it would be absurd for you to recreate the responses. You know, use a canned thing and of course, tailor it if you need to, but give yourself permission that anything that you're doing to that volume probably doesn't need your exclusive touch. Is that right?

Certainly, absolutely. I think that's dead on. And so if there's things that are show up again and again and again, and they aren't that super, like personal or emotional, it's kind of more transactional. One of my other big ones is people want to write a guest post on my website.

What do you do?

Well, we.

I don't even do that. Do you write? I gotta ask? I get probably 10 of those a week.

Yeah.

Of course I don't respond because I don't have guest posts, but then they keep emailing me and then I get mad and then I write. You know, they're like, just write no if the answer is no. Well, what do you think? If I'm not responding 10 times, but I'll write, sorry, no, I don't take guest posts. What do you do with something like that? That's somebody pitching you to do something for them over and over. How do you handle that?

Yeah, well, I think for one, you know, you can sort of automate that. I really like the tool textexpander. So if I type in a little abbreviation like semicolon. No, that'll really. It could expand that into a whole, like sentence or paragraph like that you've already written. Thank you so much for thinking about me and participating in your project. You know, unfortunately, at this time, I just don't have the bandwidth to dedicate what. Whatever you want to put it. Like, you're not saying no. Like, it could expand like three characters into like 300 characters.

I need that.

Or sometimes I've adopted the counter pitch as I call it, in terms of like, hey, thanks so much for this. You know, this isn't really something we do. However, if you're building out a campaign to try to reach backlinks, it sounds like you might benefit from exceptionally talented English speakers at an affordable rate. And my company, AwesomePros Co can accommodate you.

Do you get business that.

Well, I haven't really done it at scale, but. But it also, it kind of. I don't want to call this. I don't want to. I don't think this is malicious, but I do get a certain bit of a glee. There's like, you're bitching me now. I'm bitching you. But, you know, but I really do believe it's like, no. If this is an important initiative that you're undertaking, is this. This outbound outreach for, you know, link building and exposure. It's like, the odds are good that you could be doing this more cost effectively than you are currently. And I've got some people who could help you out with that. So I think it really is a value add and sort of actually is nicer than be like, you know, buzz off.

Oh, Pete, you're hilarious. All right, so I think we're sharing, folks, what are the common reasons we are blocked in having someone else do something? I also think, you know, in talking about it in a more therapeutic way, what I see is people thinking that they're less than if they can't do it all. And I want to say to you, that is not accurate in a business setting. And you're going to get crushed. You're going to get drained. You're going to end up really hating the thing that you thought you. You're gonna love. Because if you're trying to do all of this, it's just not possible. Like, let's say, launch a podcast and make it successful. There's so many parts to it. Right. That if you really think you're gonna do it all and can consistently do it all at a very high level, you're really gonna set yourself up to fail.

Absolutely. And just to be. To be real about, hey, what are your strengths and what are your. Your limitations? I mean, like, if your strengths happen to be at every stage of the podcast episode production life cycle, I don't know whose are then, yeah, may that make sense to do it all yourself. But, I mean, odds are there are folks who can get down and dirty with them. Audio programs, iZotope, RX8 advanced, using the D Plosive module, like, all this stuff that you don't have a clue about, they can do masterfully and faster than you. And depending on, you know, what folks pay for your time, potentially much more cost effectively. I think it was. I had Michael Hyatt on the show. He had a great example in terms of he was sharing with someone about, like, you know, doing your own website. And so he was chatting with a guy and he said, you know, I Kind of know how to do websites a little bit. And he said, okay. And so he was sort of reluctant to outsource that to someone else. He's like, okay, so you kind of know how to make websites, or, you know, you could pay someone 50 bucks an hour for a website. Okay, and what would you charge a client for coaching or whatever? He's like, about a hundred dollars an hour. Okay. So you're to pay a guy twice as much who doesn't know as much about making websites yourself, as opposed to this other guy who knows much more. And so then the light bulb aha. Moment kind of clicks on is like, yeah, it is just a lot more sensible for someone else to do this because they'll do a better job at a better price than me hiring myself to do it.

I love it. And I thought you were gonna say, oh, you kind of know. How would you hire a plumber who kind of knows how to fix your, you know, leaking toilet? I don't think so. All right, now, what people are gonna say. I have a gift of knowing what listeners are gonna say while they're listening is, yeah, but I don't really have the money. I'm just starting out with my podcast. Do you have anything to say about the financial reason we don't outsource?

Oh, sure thing. Well, and I think when it comes to, you know, we've got time and we got money, and I think you just got to take a good look at, you know, where are you right now? Like, do you find. Maybe I remember in college, I had plenty of time and not a lot of money, so that was the right move, is that for me to do a lot of things myself? I think a lot of real estate investors go through this same journey in terms of, like, their first property. It's like, okay, I don't have much money, but I've got some time. So let's learn drywall, let's learn painting, let's learn a little bit of plumbing. And so. But then over time, it's a different ballgame. So I think that's the thing, is you want to take a clear inventory of, given your income and your expenses financially, and then sort of how you're spending time and what are the demands of your time right now to see, like, that might be appropriate for you. But I also just encourage you to. Maybe you might be overestimating, you know, just what it takes to get some good help and so not to be Mr. Pitchy over here.

Let's do it, though. Let's talk about what? What would I expect to get a va, you know, virtual assistant who can help with the administrative or whatever levels you all work?

Oh, sure thing. Well, you know, you can find price points up and down, up and down the aisle. You know, I have, I have spent over $100 to have 10 seconds of audio edited before, but that was high stakes and there was an error, a background noise that had to be out. That's exceptional most of the time. Well, my company, AwesomePros Co, you know, you can have exceptionally talented English speaking folks from developing nations help you out with any number of tasks at about 12 bucks an hour. So they're smarter than the average US college graduate and they have their different bits of expertise and smarter than the average U.S. graduate? Oh, yes, I would say fresh college graduate. Like, you know, like I've hired interns from Northwestern's journalism program. And then I found that the folks I've hired in developing countries like the Philippines, after going through my selection process were actually sharper, better writers. So it's. So it's possible if you got the patience, hey, you can find these folks yourself. And not pay my markup. I had to do a lot of trial and error to figure out how the heck to do this to find amazing people and sort of pass them through all the filters and the tests and such.

But people come to you, Pete, who say, okay, I'm really ready for an online business manager. Can you help me? And then you do the selection process. Is that how that works?

That's right, yeah. So we, we have a quite a robust selection process for our folks and we're mostly just looking for folks who can read, write, think and type very well. So they've got sort of a general smart skill set that could be deployed to, you know, writing content or doing outreach or lead generation or any number of things along those lines. So when it comes to audio editing, you know, we can do that too. Although it's not so much that we've got folks with like a brilliant, you know, composer's audio engineers ear, but rather they know, they just know a lot about, hey, what sounds good and what doesn't sound good and how to run the software and rock the checklist and the protocol so that, you know, you get it done. And so then that's more affordable, you know, if you wanted like the most delicious sonic storytelling.

Well, of course not.

Try to get a Grammy award winning, you know, sound designer on your side and you know, rock it that way. But I think that's the scoop is like you Know, you got your cost and you got your quality and you got your qualifications and your time. And you're always just sort of thinking about the trade offs. And that's just my main invitation for folks is to don't just knee jerk, assume, oh, how do I get it all done? It's like, how does it all get done and where is it appropriate for me to do it? Versus a super genius professional specialist, you know, doctor, lawyer, accountant or composer, versus, you know, just a pretty smart person that can live in any nation and can learn it and do it.

I love it. You know, I'm sitting here thinking, excuse me, thinking about myself. I really resisted. I bet you'd have a lot to say about this. I was a marketing person for 20 years, not digitally, but direct marketing. When we were sending out, you know, brochures. But honest to goodness, internally, I felt like I just, I need a strategic marketing person to help my business grow. And I would hire agencies and expensive. And I never really felt I got the full picture, what I really needed. And I'm guessing there was some limiting belief there, you know, that how can it be that I've hired quite a few of agencies and it's not coming, but when I finally found the person, I can't tell you what a relief it is. And not only a relief. You're gonna have a better product when you have someone to take all that weight off you that you don't want, who actually is better at seeing a bigger picture because you're so in the weeds. Like, this isn't just a kind of nice to have. It's if you can afford it, it's so important to get that kind of help that you really need. I mean, I feel like probably I wasted a few years trying to scale in the wrong way because I didn't have the right strategic help. Does that make sense to you?

It absolutely does. In terms of the quality as well as the quality of your life. Are you exhausted and stressed and running from thing to thing to thing and never quite feel that you're getting it done on time or as well as you'd like it to be? Versus are you thinking, oh, okay, they've got that handled.

Oh, it's cool.

What big strategic thoughts am I gonna go have now?

It's really true. When you're not in the weeds, you can really see it, see the sky. All right, I gotta ask this question. How did you. More from that work running this business that, you know, lands great outsourcing sources to. How did. What's the Connection between that and your podcast. What was the idea that you had to watch this?

You know, it's funny that it started with the podcast in terms of I started doing three episodes a week before.

You had your outsource.

And, and I thought, man, this is a lot of work. And so I was trying to find, okay, I need some help. And so I had my audio editing outsourced. But I thought, you know, there's a lot of like thinking word work to be done in terms of what parts of interview should be stay versus Go. What could be some perspective titles and some teasers for this. How can we sort of sift through many potential guests and pitches? How can we get sponsors like, like all the, all these things? And you know what, I had some experience hiring folks in developing nations at a great price and I thought, this is really cool, but normally it worked great for sort of like follow a process or do some data entry or research things, but it didn't work so well for, you know, write amazing English, you know, as well or better than I can. But then, you know, I just had this stubborn streak in me which said, you know what, there are brilliant people in nations all over this world, some of which can go quite far on the dollar for your living wage. And I am actually seeing English language newspapers with writing I think is good coming out of other nations. So by golly, someone over there is writing for them. How do I get them writing for me? And so that was sort of the beginning of the journey in terms of, okay, anybody who's written for any of these publications, you know, come one, come all, please apply.

Wow.

And then I just sort of started filtering and then I started finding some amazing people who were helping me out at a great price. And then I had some friends like, hey, so do they have any extra time on their hands that maybe I could get a few hours? It was like, oh, well, funny you should ask. Let's see what we can build out here.

Wow, look at that. This is a sensitive question. If you want to pass, pass. But have you ever heard the objection? No, I want keep all the work that I generate here in the U.S. oh, sure. Well, actually, I'd love to hear your thoughts on.

I haven't heard it specifically geared toward what we're doing, but I've heard it more broadly, you know, and so here's, I think in terms of ethical considerations, you know, here's. Here's how I'm thinking about it. Firstly, it is absolutely, crucially important to us that we pay a living wage to anybody who's. Who's working for us so that they're able to provide, you know, food, healthcare, shelter, et cetera, you know, for them and their families. And not like we're objectifying or, you know, like exploiting someone's misfortune for our benefit. So that's number one, is that the person where we're hiring, no matter where they are, you know, is getting a wage that is strong and in fact, better than many of their alternatives. So they think this is a sweet deal. I love it. So that's first now, in terms of the work and is it in the US and is it elsewhere, you know, at our particular price point? What's interesting is it's almost. It's very challenging to find, in my experience, folks who can do this caliber of work and accept $12 an hour in the United States. That happens, in my experience, almost never. And for brief periods like, oh my gosh, there's a genius intern and we have three blissful months together, and off.

They go to creating.

They get hired by Goldman or McKinsey or Google. It is like, okay, well, that was nice while it lasted, you know, so. Or there's just a project that someone says, you know what? This is just really interesting to me, and I'm willing to do it almost for free or close to free, just because I want to develop the skills and the learning and scratch that intellectual itch. So that's the story is like. It's like you almost can't get it here. And I'm sure maybe if I looked super hard or tapped some new pools, I might be able to find it. So that can happen. And I think ultimately, at least where I come out is when I was in college, I took a trip to China with my academic minor. And so we started to learn about, hey, business in China, what's going on? And I just walked away in terms of just thinking about. And we all have a different take on this, but if you think about the global human family and condition, it's like, you know, there are folks who need opportunities everywhere. And it's like, if and in some ways, and I have it sorted through all this.

I flung it at you.

But in some ways it's sort of like if the same wage allocation could support three families instead of one and result in three times the output or three times the quality, then is that a better use of resources on the global stage? And I'm leaning towards yes. And I'm sure there's all kinds of moral reasoning perspectives like subsidiarity etc. That we could. We could operate from. And so that's my story. You know, I think about it, I wrestle with it, I pray about it, and my conscience is clear, and we'll see if we run into any trouble that we need to tweak.

Think it's a global perspective that we're all on this planet doing our best. Yeah, I love it. Thank you for being honest about that. One final question, which I got to know about. How do you show the new onboarded person what you want from them and the work that you want, other than tell them, let me know, because I bet I blew it already.

Oh, that's so good. Well, you know, I was. I was chatting with a coach once, and I don't know where he got this, but he had a great frame of reference. So I'm going to give you a conceptual thing and then like a tactical thing. So he said, you know, when you outsource something, it's not so much like you just say, here you go, it's yours. But he sort of called it sort of five stages to enablement. And the first stage was, watch me do this. Was like, okay, you're not doing anything. You're just watching me do the thing. And so in so doing, you're kind of learning what's going on. And then the.

What would they watch? Give us an example.

So let's say I am. It's like, here's how I make a decision on whether or not I want a podcast guest to be on my show.

Wow.

Watch me do this.

That's like a teachable point of view. Noel Tissue, leadership expert. Okay, gotcha.

And so I'll say, I want three key things. I want relevance, I want authority, and I want engagingness. Here's how I define relevance. Here's how I define authority. Here's how I define engagingness. Kathy nailed all three of.

Sweet Thing. I'm gonna take that, but thank you.

And so then it's like, hey, so now here's an incoming pitch. All right, we know what I'm looking for. We know we got an option on our hands. Let's go through it. How would I score this or view this? And so that's the first thing is like, watch me do this. And then the second phase would be help me do this. So in terms of. It's like, I'm doing most of the work, but you're chiming in with a little bit of a help. So it's like, hey, why don't you go ahead and help Me with the assessing their engaging perspective, hunt down a few videos of them being interviewed or doing talks and just kind of see, hey, what's that YouTube like ratio looking like? Are you moved and interested and intrigued by what they've got to say and are leaning in for more? So yeah, you help me with that part and I'll handle the other two parts. Alright. And so then the third phase is that let's do this together. You know, it's maybe 50, 50 in terms of. All right, so you give me the initial research phase of all the stuff and then we're going to talk about it together in terms of how I might come to reach a decision based on those research inputs. So, you know, third phase is let's do this together. And the fourth phase is I'll help you do this in terms of you're doing almost everything and I'm just chiming in with some little pointers and tips here and there. And then the fifth phase is I'll watch you do this.

I left the building, I'm watching from.

Afar and just saying, yep, that's good, keep it up. And so in so doing, we've sort of gone down that bridge, you know, in five distinct steps as opposed to one huge anxiety filled, I'm letting go. Here's everything. Please don't mess it up. You know, I thought that was very useful.

And can I ask you, I mean, I always think, okay, am I doing this? I think I do this, but not in that linear way. And I think if I did it in that linear way, it'd go smoother and easier for everybody.

I think it is handy to have a framework or a name to things in terms of, hey, where are we on the five stages? You know, we're here and we're trying to move it to the next.

I think I got to do a Forbes interview with you, Pete. We have to credit the guy who told you too. Can I ask you this? Now? People are thinking, well, how long is that going to take? I need someone to get on board right away. How. I mean, we're not talking eight months for this. It could be a matter of days and weeks. No.

Oh, sure. Well, and I think it really varies on, on what is it?

The complexity of it, the how complex.

Is it, how, how risky is it in terms of like, how bad would it be if they screwed it up and then how particular are you about it and to what, to what extent do you need to chill out versus does it really need to be that particular in those ways?

Right.

And So I think some things, it can be done, you know, pronto, in terms of.

Right.

We got a pile of stuff. Start cranking it, and I'll check in and see how that goes and other things, you know, bit by bit. Although I think you can really accelerate it by. You know, one of my favorites for watching me do this in a remote virtual world is. Is Loom. That's screen software. Oh, it's so good.

My team will say, okay, this is how you go into infusionsoft and find the campaign. There it is. And then I have it for life. And when I forget, which my mind does, I'm like, I'm gonna go back to the loom. Love it.

Totally.

All right, Pete, I kept you too long, but I gotta ask this question. What did you do before the podcast and before the outsourcing business for a living? Yeah, that.

Sure. Well, you know, immediately before that, I was doing, you know, speaking and coaching, you know, kind of coaching. I was. It was interesting. It was specifically for people who wanted jobs in strategy consulting, prepping them for their. Their case interviews.

Wow.

It is. It is. But what's really fun about it is that we were just basically working problem. I kind of thought. I felt like I was kind of almost like a chess coach. It's like, okay, we are playing a game of strategic problem solving together. Hope you're hiring me because you want to get the job, and I want you to get the job, too. But even if you don't, I feel great knowing that we're developing a particular set of skills for you to flourish, whatever your career may be, in terms of thinking and problem solving. So. So, yeah, I do a little bit of that here and there, but, you know, not as much. But before that, I was doing strategy consulting myself at Bain.

Did you do that right out of college?

I did, yeah.

You got a prodigious mind, my friend.

Oh, well applied.

I can see it. I can see that you is it right. And then I'm going to let you go. You see a problem, and immediately you're strategizing like a chessboard. That's how you think?

Yeah.

Okay, everybody, that was so fun. What did we not. Where. What did we not cover about outsourcing? I think we covered a lot. And where does everyone learn about you? Check out your amazing business, listen to your podcast. Where do we send them? Where do we go?

Thanks. Well, yeah, so to the first part. What have we not covered? I would just say with the showing versus telling.

Yeah.

I think that strategy consultants ask people to do Case interview, solve this business problem before me. Salespeople sometimes say, hey, sell me this pen. Artists will sometimes say, let's see your portfolio. I think that's the name of the game when you're hiring, is that I want to get a sample of what you can do, maybe even paying for a work sample, in terms of saying, hey, those three hours of work you did for me that I paid for were amazing. Let's do 300 more. Or you know what? They weren't. Maybe I'm gonna find someone else. So I think that's. That's the key rule. And then in terms of, for me, you can listen to how to be awesome at your job, any podcast app, look for that yellow background and friendly gal. And then if you're interested in getting some help at a great price, we're at awesome pros, and you can find some of our awesome pros who can help you out.

I can't thank you enough. I learned so much. I really love this. I love it, and I just love every piece of it. What do you think, people? You ready to outsource? So, you know, in. In light of the fact that we're saying Pete and I don't answer probably every email that we get, because it's thousands, but I do think that hopefully if you have a question and you see this, I'm, you know, I have a Finding Brave Facebook page which I haven't been active on. I've been promoting the podcast everywhere else. But we're going to reinvigorate that page so that people can ask questions right there in one spot. I don't know what. It took me three years to do that, but if you have a specific question, ask us and we'll do, you know, tag us both and we'll do our best to answer. And I hope you will fly over to Pete's resources because I know just listening to you, I learned so much. I hope you're inspired. People, it's time to stop being a perfectionistic over functioner. It's time to close power gap. Number three. Reluctance to ask for what you deserve and you want. And if you really want to scale and let go of the burden and have more fun and have more reward, this is how to do it. It's time to stop doing everything yourself. Anything else, Pete?

I love all that. Yes. Good luck and rock on.

All right, everybody, Hope you loved it. Have a wonderful week and see you next time.