Finding Brave 152: How To Be a True Standout In Your Life and Work, with John Walsh

Hello everybody. Kathy Caprino here. Welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. And this one is going to prove just as pretty remarkable if I do say so myself, as the other 140. Whatever. And I'm so thrilled and truly honored to have on as our guest John Walsh who I am just for the first time speaking directly to. But John, I have pored over your materials, your new book, what, what a mission and what a what an Illustrious life. But not with a silver spoon did you emerge and which, which I find even just more inspiring. So thank you, thank you for joining. I'm so excited. Here we see Standout X so we know what we're going to be talking about. We are. I don't even have a title yet for this one. Why don't you title it for me John? How we Stand out, how to Stand out in Life.

Yeah, that sounds great. Let's go with that one.

I'll tweak that a little. But everyone I want to tell you about John and then we are going to dive into, you know, John and my stuff I think really dovetails well and there's going to be a lot of similarities but there's going to be points of difference of course. And my world is helping middle mid career professionals who are lost. Your sweet spot focus right now as I understand it is young people and we're going to get into why that is and I can't wait to hear why it's why you've seen it so hard for people to figure out how to stand out. So here we go. Let me tell you about John. John Walsh is a best selling author. Now this is your first book, right?

It's my first book, yes.

Called the Standout How Students and Young Professionals can Rise, Shine and Impact when It Matters Most of that. Best selling author, keynote speaker and entrepreneur with a passion for helping people and businesses accelerate their potential and transform from start to stand out as fast as possible. His primary focus is on students and young professionals, but he also coaches executive executives and advises emerging businesses. Before he founded the Standout movement and became the president and CEO of Standout X. I'm pronouncing that correctly. Right, John. John spent 20 plus years as a successful finance and strategy executive with the Walt Disney Company. Wow. And the Madison Square Garden Company. He continues to serve on the board of directors for Disney's employee owned credit union. And as I read it, you also, you helped launch Disney Streaming, didn't you?

That's right, yes.

Can't that be one of the most successful things that's on in the planet right now. You have a lot to teach us. But where, where I want to begin is if it's okay with you, John, just to hear a little bit about your beginnings. Because I think it, when we read your bio, we think, oh, holy cow, he's just, he was so successful from second one. And what challenges has John faced? But can you talk a little bit about where you came from and, and why you're so passionate about doing this work?

Yeah, it's a story that first of all, thank you for having me and allowing me to share this. And it's interesting because it's one of those things that I've only recently started sharing. And as I was writing the book, I put some of this in the book and it was, I mean, talk about stepping outside of a comfort zone and what are people going to think? But the cutting right to the chase is there was a period where when I was a senior in high school that I found myself homeless. And it lasted probably for two years or more there and my parents got divorced and no fault of their own, it was entirely me. As I reflect back on that, I was just a rebellious kid, I guess, and my parents got divorced and then my stepmother came in. And imagine, I mean, it's hard enough being a mom, but imagine coming in and all of a sudden you have a 13 year old, 11 year old and a 9 year old and like, and you don't even know how to parent and now you've got teen preteen or whatever else. So we had some family dynamics there that were really tough. I didn't help the situation and there was a big falling out one night and I ended up, you know, I found myself homeless. So it was interesting because again, I was a senior in high school and you know, what is a senior in high school with no money and you know, like the only family, you know, at that point, my mom had moved up to Boston I think at that point already. So like, I had nowhere else to go. So I found myself homeless for a while early on and you know, it took me a while to claw out of that and I ended up. We can talk more about the story, but I started my career probably 10 years later than everybody else as a result of that story. Yeah.

Oh, I could talk for hours. So we'll talk until we're tired and then we'll do part two. But can you tell us. Well, first I'd love to know how was your first job with Walt Disney?

My first real job, it was whenever I talk about My life journey. I break it down into six segments. And the first segment really is that adversity segment, which is dealing with the homelessness. You know, just getting by. Right. You know, day to day. I would say the second was in my early 20s. Yeah, it was. Was in my early 20s to mid-20s. And I didn't know what I wanted to do, and so I didn't go to school right away. I don't know how I graduated from high school because I don't think I went to a single class in my. We were doing on a quarter basis. And so third or fourth quarter, I don't think I went to school at all. But somehow I graduated and I didn't go to college. I was not intent on going to college. And so I spent a number of years. I was like, I'm going to be a pilot. And then so I went and worked for an airline, you know, loading bags onto a plane. And I didn't like that. And then my stepfather is a senior executive in the music industry, and so I was like, well, I'm going to be just like him and I'm going to go into the music industry. And I tried that at a. You know, I tried working for a record store as, you know, my starting point. That didn't work out. Then I was like, well, maybe I want to be a dj. And I was. I was. You know, I tried my hand at that and then I was like. So it's like. It's that confusion period. I think we all go through it, not only for the demographic that I'm trying to help, but also yours as well. Like, am I doing the right thing? What do I want to do with my life? And that's kind of what I did for a really long time. I ended up working for. I don't. I think it's because someone told me, get an office job, because that's like, just. It doesn't matter. So I got a job at a law firm and I was working in the mailroom for a while, just delivering packages and that kind of thing. And I guess someone saw something in me and they promoted me to a litigation clerk. So I was helping people prepare for trials and like, all that kind of stuff, which is really cool.

That's a big leap.

It was a big leap. I ended up getting fired from that job, and I still don't know why. I think they went through a transition period. I ended up going to another law firm, and I was working there for a while and. Same thing. I started as a little. As A clerk. And then they moved me up to, I was doing legal assistant work, like research and helping prepare for trials. And then I became project manager there. And then I was helping manage the office itself. And it was that point where I eventually went back to school. So I didn't, I didn't like, that was really my first career. Disney was like a few jobs down the road. I ended up starting as an intern at Disney. I was in my late 20s when most people were starting in their 20s, early 20s. I was starting in my late 20s. I may have even been 30 when I got my first job at Disney.

What a story. All I can think of is the resilience you had. So what I love to do story is so interesting. But as I'm a coach, I love to tease out, okay, so what about me? The key question I have is here you were 13, 14, 15, homeless, you finished school somehow, and then you said, I gotta work. And you, it sounds like you were like, well, I kind of like this. Let me try it on. Which is a try on phase, which I recommend to everybody. But can you give us, you know, a strategy for how did you persevere through. You mentioned you never did a drug in your whole life. You know what you went through. There's depression, there's suicidality, there's drug addiction. What do you think allowed you to not be crushed by this? And in a way, it sounds like you had self esteem that was indestructible. Am I right? Tell us all about this.

I don't, I mean self esteem, maybe. I think there was. I've always been ambitious, but that doesn't mean that I was applied ambition, meaning that I wanted more. But that doesn't mean I actually went and did it and went after it. I mean, as an example of that, I always knew I wanted to get a college degree or I should, right? And so I signed up at our local community college to take classes because I need to get a college degree. That's the ambition. But then I never attended class, I never properly withdrew. And so there was a period where I had maybe 30 something credits under my belt and I had a 0.00 GPA because I either failed out, the teacher gave me an F or they, you know, a W for withdrawal. So I always had this ambition that sort of kept me there. And I don't know what it was. I don't know if I played sports all my life. And so I don't know if there was a competitive nature of not wanting to give up. But yet I wasn't also, like, going for the win. Like, I didn't want to lose, but I didn't want to necessarily go for the win. Right, yeah.

So was there a little self sabotage there, do you think?

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure there was. I mean, I think there's still self sabotage at times now. Right? I think we all sort of do that, but yeah, I think definitely. And I think it's also just a. It never got. So it's weird because when I talk about homelessness, I came from New York City before I started my company, and I walk on the streets of New York City and I see real homelessness. Right? The, you can imagine the ragged clothes and the, you know, you're holding up the cardboard signs and, you know, mental issues and all that kind of stuff. And I mean, I grew up outside of Washington, D.C. in Northern Virginia. And so for me, homelessness meant I was in suburban Virginia, you know, in Northern Virginia. And, you know, there were some beautiful houses and sometimes I would sneak into, you know, into a carport or something, and they had, you know, outdoor furniture. I'd sleep. There was a lot of construction going on at that time. And, you know, they do the wood frames of the house and they put the bathtub in. That's the first thing that really goes into a house. I would break into those houses because they either didn't have a lock or I knew how to get in and I would sleep in the bathtub. So I always had like a roof over my head. There were some nights where it was cold and occasionally a friend would let me stay at his house, not telling his parents or something. So it wasn't like. And I worked at a restaurant part time, which meant there may have been two days where I didn't eat. But that third day I was able to go to the restaurant and cook. I was a cook, actually. I was started as a busboy and then I moved so many skills and then I became a cook right there. And so I was able to feed myself occasionally. So it's like, it's. It's interesting. I. People have told me I downplay this too much and maybe I'm doing that again, but I just, I don't want to give it to my light. Just went off in my office here. But that's a sign. That's a sign. Stop talking about it.

But, you know, that point was accurate. Like you. I don't think you downplay it. I wouldn't call it that word, but it seems to me as a Former shrink. You have an incredibly refined, honed ability to see the positive. Would you say that's true?

I would say that. And I always knew that. I always knew that I, I wanted more and I'm competitive and I wanted more. And it really served me later in life because two things happened and have always happened. One is I was always running away from that guy 10 years ago or 20 years ago and not wanting to go backwards. That's a powerful motivator. And the second one, I was always chasing the person that I'm supposed to be 10 years from now because I started, I went to college 10 years later than everybody else. I started my job 10 years later than everybody else. And so I look at where I'm supposed to be and I'm always chasing 10. And I think it's great advice for anybody. You don't have to be like me where you're actually age wise 10 years back. But I think Matthew McConaughey talks about this in one of his award winning speeches or whatever. You know, he talked about chasing that guy 10 years from now. And I think it's a great strategy. And I've always chased where I'm supposed to be. I've always felt like I let time go by.

So you. Wow. Because when you say chase, that doesn't seem constructive to me. So let me ask, like I always say, do what you need to to stay afloat, but always plant the seeds for your future self. So some of us really see that future self even though it looks nothing like reality.

Right.

I would say, you know, cherish that future self vision that is you, but you got to do some shit to get there. Is that kind of the same thing you're talking about?

Yeah, exactly. Right. And I didn't know exactly what I wanted for that 10. I just knew that I was behind just the fact that I was behind. And I didn't really compete or look at other people later in life. I did early on and I always saw my classmates from high school, what they were doing and they were 10 years ahead of me. Right. They had already, they had already graduated, they were already getting promoted to executive levels. And I was just starting. They already had families and everything else and I was sort of competing, but then I was always really chasing myself and competing against myself. And I didn't know what it looked like. I just knew that what I was doing wasn't it yet. Right.

There's so much to pull out of this and I just want to highlight a few things. I think you had no matter what happened. You had an abiding belief in yourself that this is not it. But I'm going to keep going. And it doesn't sound like you for a moment felt like, what a loser. Why don't I just give up? Which is really an important lesson. The second thing I want to share is this bit about where we are on the timeline. So I had an 18 year corporate career. You probably saw that in one of the podcasts. And, you know, successful on the outside, gave me skills, but miserable on the inside and sickening, all of that. So when I went to the master's degree program, I was 41 before I stepped foot in that class. I, you know, felt like throwing up. I felt like, God, you're so old. Can you even read? Can you even study? And you're going to be laughed at. I get there. And basically the whole graduating class was, you know, corporate refugees. So, so much of that time pressure is really so fabricated in our own mind, don't you think?

And in our heart too. Right. It's, it's, it's the logical, this is where I should be or what I should be doing, and you're not. And then there's the, this is what I want to be doing and I'm not. And I think both of those things are powerful and kind of essential to get aligned. Yeah. Anytime you can be pushed by something and simultaneously pulled by something, it's pretty powerful.

All right, now I want to flash forward here. Can you. You had such amazing success here, and then, then you created your, your own enterprise. Do you, when you look back, can you state for us or share? What do you think contributed to being so successful? I mean, you were made to be in charge of launching Disney, for goodness sake, and all the finance and strategy work you did. What do you think was the key to your successes there?

I think there's a couple, and this is what my book is really based on, but I think one of them is, I was me. I didn't want me. I was me. I mean, I was who I. It took me a while to come to the reality and the acceptance of, okay, I am the person that's 10 years, you know, behind where I'm supposed to be. Right. And this is who I am. And so I really, I really was happy with me, whether I, I don't know how, but I was. And I think the other one, the other one was. And this is probably the, this is the key, I would say, and I would say there's two others. And this is probably the the genesis of where standout came from a long time ago is I always wanted to be different because I was already different. Not from a diversity perspective, but I was different. I was different in terms of. I was 10 years. I was, you know, I was an intern at 30 when other people were 20 and I was starting my career at other people were 21 and I was already different and it worked for me. And so I always wanted to be different. And part of standing out is you can't stand out if you're the same as everybody else.

All right, wait a minute. Questions. And I got choked up, teary eyed when you said I was me. And you know, my. I have a gender lens here because this is what I do. I work with women. I can hear a few women saying, yeah, I can't be me. Good for him. That he can be me, him. But I do believe that what you're saying is relevant and applicable to everyone. But can you tell us. And you're not a woman, so you probably can't relate in the way I'm really saying. But that was my problem for 18 years. I couldn't be me. I couldn't. It wasn't allowed. It wasn't. If I were forceful, then I'm a biatch. If I were soft and gentle, I'm too soft and gentle to be vice president. It didn't work for a second. Now, you didn't have those issues, I'm guessing, but how did you embrace. Look, I'm different. I'm going to go with it. How. How did you do that and not let the culture, the environment crush you down?

Part of it is, frankly, I don't know. I don't know what drove that. Later, I think I learned it or I was at least comfortable in my skin. Not because I did anything to do that. I just was right. And I sort of had a. If people don't like me, they don't like me. Right. And, and it's, it's tough. I mean, it's interesting because. Yeah. I don't know what.

And did that ever get in the way? I'm trying to think for a woman to say, okay, look, this is who I am. You're going to have to. Now there's a patriarchal world going on. We've got a lot of biases, so they don't work. But would you say that anybody ever said, I don't really like what you got going on there? I mean, did you push up against that ever or.

Oh, yeah, no question. There was stuff where I Where people didn't like the way I approach leadership or the way I approached my job. And, you know, there's a couple of things I did. One is I. Look, I'm not going to say I didn't take it personally, because I did. Right. But I wasn't going to let it, especially where I came from, dictate my. My life.

And you've been through so much. It's like, what is this? This is nothing.

So I either removed myself from the people or I removed myself from the situation and found places where I could be me and I was accepted as me, whatever that was. And I think. I think, look, I don't know what women go through, and it's hard. And I know that there's.

You.

You nailed it. Exactly how. There's this sweet spot on how you have to behave. And I sort of saw it a little bit at Disney where it's, you know, at least when I started back in 2000, it was. There was a lot of male executives and male dominant, you know, whatever. And I had. Some of my favorite leaders were women, and I saw what they ran up against. And one of my favorite leaders, Tracy, went through that same thing. And she was very. Not aggressive in a bad way, but she was. She got her job done, and she cared about people and everything else, but she was like, hey, you need to soften your approach. Until I saw it, I will never feel it. It. My stepfather is African American, too, so I've seen what he's had to deal with as well. But I think it's one of the hardest things. It's why life is so hard. It's why our careers are so hard. Because. And my book starts with the acronym standout, starts with S, which is self. And if you can't start with yourself and be you, it doesn't matter what you do for the rest of anything you're trying to work on. So, I mean, we all know it. The hardest thing is to put into practice, right?

Oh, so good. So rich. All right, now let's move forward here to your standout ex, your company, your book. What's the deepest goal for the book? Who are you really talking to? And what are you trying to heal or fix or address? What is it?

Yeah, I mean, what I did, the book really is just for me to get my ideas down on paper and put it out there and challenge myself to write a book. It's really intended for. Everything we're doing here is really intended for students and young professionals. I mean, maybe here's where Your, your psychotherapy and you can come back. And maybe this is me going back and mentoring my 20 year old self, you know, almost 30 years later. And that's what I'm doing. But I think students and young professionals are coming out of school or they're in school and they're like, what do I do with my life? Where do I go? What you know, you know, they're chasing the wrong jobs in many cases. You know, they're. The values that they have are different than the values that society teaches. And there's just a lot. And so, and then you look and you're like, personal development is multi billion dollars. No one is talking to students, young professionals, nobody. And I led recruiting for a while when I was at Disney as part of my executive function and I would go interview these amazing students, but they lacked the basic skills. They had the internship, they had the major, they had the desire, but they lacked basic life skills and things like that. So all that sort of combined to why I'm focusing on helping.

I love it. And you know, to your point, I think what a lot of us are doing when we're trying to, you know, share thought leadership or helpful strategies to improve lives is that we're turning our own mess into a message. I wish I came up with that sentence. I didn't. But I think that's what. Because we feel so much empathy for that and we. When I woke up and I was 40 and I thought, what am I going to do with my life here, my career? There was no help. The 20 things I tried were ridiculous. And I think that's what you're seeing. There's a gap and I got to fill it in. And also speaks to the younger me that was lost. Love it. So you've got the standout acronym. Would you read those for me? What those represent for us?

Well then I'm giving away the whole book. But, but I will share, I will tell you. So standout really is sort of. Let me first tell you where it came from. It came from there. Anything that a student or young professional, or by the way, a parent, a teacher, a leader in an organization who is leading students, young professionals. Everything you want to know is out there. Everything. Right. Read a book, go to a seminar.

There aren't that many new ideas, not.

A lot of new ideas. We're talking different. Like there's new research coming out every now and then, brain science and things like that. But at the end of the day, it's just where do you start? And so, and I am I'm a huge proponent of personal development, learning, constant learning, and relentless pursuit of perfection. And. But there was no way for me to like take everything and aggregate it in a way that made sense. And I started writing my book. I got about halfway through the book and this acronym, I kind of stumbled across it. I think I was bike riding one day and I went back and rewrote the entire book around the acronym.

So it came to you while you were bike riding to me, I was.

Thinking about the next chapters and what stories do I want to tell and that kind of thing. And so then that's where standout X came from. And it really is literally a step by step process that in reflection, I did to get out of where I was from. And so. And it's so. And we teach a lot about this, but the S starts with self. Like, if you want to stand it, first of all, we tell you why you want to stand out. And I've heard a lot of people say, I don't want to stand out. I don't want to. It's like if you've ever wanted to be that one person selected for a job, you ever wanted to be that one person, that, that person you're interested, you know, dates, if you ever wanted to get that one. There are times when you want to stand out, right? So once you convince people that, then it's like, okay, how do you get there? Well, there's a process and it starts with self. You have to know yourself really well. That's the S. And then it's, you have to know where you're going tomorrow. T. Right? So now you've got your point A and you've got your point B. Now we just fill in the gaps between the two. Then it's. So it starts with attitude, right? Let's get you in the right frame of mind. Right? Right. Your heart, your head, your soul. Then it goes to N, which is now, in the moment. And that's really about purpose, your purpose now. And what our purpose is, D is then what do you do day by day? So there's a journey that we all take, right? We make three choices every day. And by the way, 30,000 times a day, you're making decisions every two seconds. Science says so you're either doing something that betters yourself, makes yourself worse, or kind of keeps you in between. That's it. It's as simple as that. So how do you make decisions? And that's what D is about. O is then how do you optimize everything you have all of your foundational elements, the self, the tomorrow, the attitude. How do you optimize everything? Once you've learned it and you're working on it, once you've done that, you've kind of worked on yourself. That it's interesting because there's nine letters in the acronym and the first six are all about yourself.

Oh, that's what my course is all about. It's an internal job here.

Yep.

But then you have to take action on those internal shifts. Correct. Without that, you're lost.

Exactly. Right. So then it's. Once you've done that, then you is uplift. Which. Which is leadership. Right. You uplift other people. And then where am I? S T O U T. T is touch. So T is once. Once you've. Once you've worked on yourself, once you've assumed a leadership role, then it's what impact are you going to have? And it's how you touch other people. Like my goal today is to touch you and to touch your audience and to say something that they walk out. You got this emotional feeling, this, this logical. Whatever else it is, it's. It's one of my three core values. And so impact, touch. And then. And then X is the X factors I've identified. I've studied a bunch of people that you would call standouts, and there's 10 factors that they have that, that helps them, that that's the reason why they're standing out.

Give me one so we don't give away the book. Give me one. Your favorite. The one that you think you have.

I would say. I would say exceptional, you know, excellence. You do something with just. People stand out because they're themselves, they're different than everybody else. They move our emotions and they do something in a really excellent way. And we're drawn to people that just have excellent in them, aren't we? I mean, we're just like people that are excellent in their craft. Right. And so if you are. If you're different in your, your. Yourself, and if you are, you know, you're moving people's emotions and you are being excellent at what you do, then you're going to be memorable and you're going to stand out.

I love this. I do. You know, again, not to sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but when I lay gender over this, what. You know, so I've worked with thousands of women around the world. They. There's something called perfectionistic over functioning that I've found that. That. And women are doing it. They are doing more than is Appropriate health, healthy and necessary. And they're trying to. And they're trying to get an A plus in all of it. So women have excellence down pat. They have maybe even. No, they don't recognize their difference. They don't think they're great. They don't want to say they're great because we've been programmed not to. The touching people, I think they've got it in that they're often not all women, not all men, you know, but they're connective, they're emotional, they're empathic. But I do think they struggle with. If all you're trying to do is be excellent, you're going to lose yourself.

Yeah. And excellence. People think about excellence as perfect, and it's not right, because nobody's perfect. Excellence, really, if you really think about it, excellence is doing something exceptional beyond the norm and beyond what someone expects. So if I expect to go see a great Broadway play and I've heard something about an actor, and that actor gets. I've got a certain expectation going in about what that actor is going to do. And if they do something and they draw me in and they're just excellent at what they do, they may miss a line. They might, you know, not be in the right place, the right cue or whatever else. But. But I guarantee you I'm going to walk out because my expectation was one thing, and what they delivered was so much further above and beyond that. That. That is excellence. It's not perfect. That is excellence.

And. And can I build on that so that people really get this? I think when you're talking about an actor, for instance, and I think it's the same. You were moved. It wasn't that you were looking at an excellent performance. You lost touched that it was a performance. You were so engrossed. So what I want to say to women listening. Why don't you try to reshape the definition of excellence so it isn't that you're killing yourself working 24 7, it's that you are scaling back and doing what's healthy and appropriate, but you are doing it the way you do it. That moves people in the doing of it. Does that sound right?

It sounds exactly right. I'll give you another secret power for women that I believe right. Not being a woman. When you go into any meeting, any interview, any interaction, as humans, we're trying to do three things. Men are good at two of them. Women have the ability to do the third, I believe, better than us. Oh, you want them. And it's three questions. What do I want them to. What do I want them to think? Okay, what do I want them to do and how do I want them to feel? I think women have a. There's just something about women that just like men. More men. I'm not, I'm not. I don't want to like painting everybody with. Painting everybody like that. I'm just saying that it's a superpower that, that probably more often women have, they don't use. And certainly men as well, right? Men are more logical, the fact based. And there's some women that are too. And so whether you're a man or a woman, maybe, but I think there's a superpower in women to be able to tap into that more emotional connection to people. And if you can walk out, like when, when I interview people, I go through the, okay, this person can do the job. Okay. This person demonstrated that they're capable, great. But then I ultimately sit around, I had three great candidates, and I end up making a gut feel. Right. And it's something like a lot of, like Maya Angelou. Right. Talks about. Right, exactly. Right. It's like, it's how you make them feel. And I think it's just a superpower that people can tie into it. So I think excellence above the norm, like understanding what other people's expectations are and delivering it, the greater that is, the greater the excellence. And then tapping into people's emotions is just a powerful way. And by the way, inherently, you can only do that if you're yourself. Like, it's hard enough to be an actor and try to play someone else. The only way that you can really tap into a person's emotion is to be you. You naturally have to do that. And then, and then being excellent, it's harder enough to try to do it as somebody else and you do it as you.

So I love it. How are we doing with time? More. I want more. One thing I just want to tell people, a lot of people say, I, you know, I'm going on an interview, I'm doing this. I don't know how to make that. I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to make that connection. So I'm going to give you a tip. It's curiosity. Like, the reason I love this podcast is I don't. I'm not even looking at the questions you submitted. And I submitted. I'm literally just listening so intently, and I'm also not listening to what am I going to ask next? You know, sometimes I don't know till after you said it, you know, so true. Just curious, curiosity. What, wow, what makes you tick and wow, is that interesting to me. And I promise you people will respond well, don't you think? Would you agree with that?

No question about it. And the people that are the greatest problem solvers ask the greatest questions.

That's so true. And they're disruptive questions usually. All right, now we can't talk about your entire book right now, but you know what I'd love to know if you asked me what is the biggest challenge of mid career professionals? I can tell you, particularly women, but I can tell you with men. Can you tell us of all the things you mentioned that teens and young people and right out of college, you know, they don't quite know what they want or they were pressured by their parents. This is what I see. A 40 and 50 year old. I studied the wrong thing because I was told to. And they're not nice about it. They're mad, you know, or they haven't been walked through this process or they weren't taught life skills because there's hover mothers and fathers that say, let me protect my child from anything.

Correct.

Of all that, plus the millions of things you see, if you've got exactly the audience that you teach and work with listening to this, what's the one thing that they don't realize they don't have going for them in terms of what they've done or what they need to understand that you think is the big thing that holds them back? What is the one thing I would.

Say the one thing I'm going to build on something you said in that question. I think the one thing that holds people back, whether you're in your 20s or you're in your 40s, and this is something that I've said over and over again, we are more concerned about protecting what could go wrong, that we don't go after what could go right. And I think like you said, parents are hovering over their kids and all because they don't want to see that downside. They want to. There's that safety net. And too often we're worried about losing the safety net, that we don't go after what's possible. I mean, I was in New York City as the senior vice president at Madison Square Garden. The homeless kid had finally made it. Like I'm making more money than I've ever made I ever thought was possible. And I walked away. I walked away. I walked away to start my company. And by the way, I'm not in my 20s or 30s or even 40s right now. Right. So I walked away. And it's because I'm going after what's possible. And I was okay losing what was effectively a guarantee. Right. And I think people just don't go after what's possible for them. They either don't know it, so they don't know what to go after, which we try to help, or they don't have the activation energy to go after it. I'd say that's the biggest thing.

I would have to agree with you completely. And, you know, I've written a lot about this, about, you know, the. The top excuses we make not to move. And I say it like that. I mean, they're excuses. We don't know their excuses. We think, look, I have this big house, my three kids need the money I bring in. We need my 401k and my benefits and my health insurance. I get it. But in the end. And, you know, if you spend enough time with people. My dad died at 93. Mom is 96. She's just recovered from COVID but is much weaker. When you spend enough time with people who've had full lives and they're at the end of them, they're not talking about I stayed at msg.

No.

They're talking about what they didn't do.

No, exactly. Right. I mean, I. I have. I don't know if you have the time, but I could share a quick story about why I left msg, which is. Which is something that's really resonated with people. So my family, I've got a beautiful wife, three kids, but they were in Orlando when I got moved up to New York to go work and do this Disney thing. And then I got recruited to Madison Square Garden. So I was flying up to New York on a Monday and flying back on a Friday, and I was doing that. I did it for two years. Both my wife and I are divorced, and so our kids go with their moms and dad, respectively. So one spring break, my daughter came up to see me. Of all the stories I tell being homeless, this is the one that's most powerful for me. And you can tell I. Yeah, yeah. So she came up to see me and I, we went to the airport. I'm so proud because she's, like, flying. She was 11 at the time. Flying by herself, back to go. Back to go to her mom's, and we went to jfk and I went to, you know, put her on the plane. She gets the special little medallion thing and they take care of her or whatever else. And it starts. Started to snow. And so she goes down the ramp. I'm so proud I'm watching her. Can't wait to talk to her afterwards, you know. How did it go? She gets on the plane, it goes and gets de ice, goes to the end of the Runway, goes to take off. Plane takes off 50ft into the air. It's sewing so hard you can't see the plane anymore. Plane just lifted off in the air. I turn around, I'm like, I got to go to work. So I turn around, I got about five feet, and I'm in the middle of this concourse area where all the gates are. And I almost couldn't move. And I sat down right there and I started crying harder than I've ever cried before. And I was thinking about, I'm the senior vice president in Madison Square Garden. I went from homeless to where I'm at everything else. And I said, nothing matters. And I said, I asked myself, I said, what am I doing?

Does this mean. You mean you were so worried about your daughter getting there safely? That's what.

No, it was deeper than that. It was. It was. I am making the trade off for the money and the title and the 401k and everything else that I was.

To be with my child, not to be with my.

Was my little family. And it was at that moment where I decided to start writing the book and I started working on my business idea and everything else. And so that's what really got it for me. And you're right, we do all these things not realizing what's important. And I didn't want to wait until later. And so that's how I got to where I'm at now. And now I'm in Orlando with my family. It's great.

So I'm going to highlight one thing that I hear. You know, maybe it's going to be too woo woo or spiritual, but I think you're divinely guided. I think we're all divinely guided. Or you can call it intuition, or you can call it my higher self, whatever you want to call it. But you had a breakdown moment right there. And it's. And I always say, what is breakdown? It slaps you across the face and pushes you to your knees. And thank goodness for those. Those. Because it's those that rip us from that comfort that. That horrible comfort that we have that isn't letting us live a real life that we want. And you had it, but then you acted on it.

That's right.

What I See, like, I had breakdown moment after breakdown moment, but I didn't act until the universe booted me out of my job after 9, 11. I mean, it really was a gift. So I think people. What do you think, John? I'm praying that you get out of what John's saying, that when you have a breakdown moment, when you sit down in the concourse of JFK and cry, that's your breakdown moment. And that's where the breakthrough can come if you act. Would you agree with that?

I would totally agree, but I would go one step further and say, do it before you even have the breakdown moment.

That's the better way.

Don't wait for, like, if you know that you're not in the right place and you know that you're meant for something different and better, or there's something else you want to do. I'm here to tell you. And there's nothing special about me. I don't think I'm divinely anything. I think I'm just. I'm normal. Like, I. I just feel normal. And I follow all the other people out there and I look and like, gosh, they just. They have this or this charisma or whatever else. I'm no different. My point is, if I can do it, anybody can do it, but only if you actually do it. Right? And so I would say do it before you have that breakdown moment.

I love it. I love it. And just to confirm, the reason I think it's easier to do it after the breakdown is there's no turning back when you have that. You're like, you know what?

That's right.

None of this is worth what I'm feeling in this moment. And so that makes it easier. But no, don't wait. Start listening. Start. And, you know, you said one other thing I'm going to leave people with. And I talk about this constantly. Everything starts with self. That's where your book starts, right? You have to have the most intimate relationship with yourself. None of us do that.

Right.

We know everybody else. Our spouse, our mother, our father, our kids, much more than we know ourselves. So one huge takeaway, I hope, is it's now time to start knowing yourself. And I have a career path assessment. I'm sure in your book you have tools and resources, John, about. Well, how the heck do I know myself? Because there's so many layers of who I should be that I don't really even know who I am. Such a powerful talk. I'm so inspired. So where do people learn? Where do they get your book? Where do they learn about all your programs? Where do we send them?

Easiest place to go is to our website. It's standout movement dot com. Don't do the standout movement. It's standout movement dot com and from there you can link to all the social media. You can buy the book on Amazon there you can see what we're doing and we're just getting started. We've got four of our. We've got 18 programs that are on the roadmap right now. We're on number four and I think we're making a pretty big impact and we can't. I'm just super excited about what's coming.

Can't wait to read all about them. Do you have any. You're so inspiring. Any last words for the people listening who feel like, gosh, I wish I were in John's shoes, where I knew who I was and I could be me and I could make a difference with who I am. Any last words of.

I guess the only three things I would say about being you. One is it's okay, right? It's okay to be you and people that don't like you. Then you get rid of them, really. I mean, the second is that it really takes self reflection and discovery and you keep asking questions and questions and questions and you have to be really honest with yourself. So if you ask all the questions and by the way, have other people help you with that, it's really important. And I think the third is about being yourself is give yourself the flexibility and the freedom to change. I mean, we might identify and discover ourselves now, but the person that you like, the person that you are now is going to be different. Different than the person you're going to be ten years from now. And if, but if we get fixed in a point of time that this is who I am now and we actually change and we're holding in our brain to that person that was before then. You create this gap and you lose focus of who you are. So beautiful. That's what I would say. Give yourself the flexibility to change as you change.

That is so fantastically beautiful. I can tell you've read thousands of books and you've created your version of. So grateful, so inspiring. I'm thrilled that we've done this and I hope you'll come back again.

John, anytime you need me, whatever you need, I'm here.

So inspiring. All right, people, I say this after every, every episode, but honestly, if this didn't move you forward, I don't know, I don't know. What will. But I bet you'll have questions. And you know, I feel like I'm not doing my job if you don't have questions. And I'm sure John feels the same. I mean, how you hear this is different from every other person who hears. So it's in the questions that help us dimensionalize it. So wherever you see this and if you want to reach out to John on his contact page or me, wherever you see it on LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, write us a question, please, and we'll both or, you know, direct it to John. We'll both do our best to fill in that gap of I love what you said, but I don't know quite how to do it because that's often what what happens will you. We'd love to hear from you. And thanks again, John. Come back soon. All right, everybody, have a wonderful week and we will see you next time. Thank you.