Finding Brave 326 - Listener Favorite - The Brave Leap To Live Your Life Purpose with Jeffrey Allen

they needed somebody to come in and be like the bowling ball to knock over all the pins, to put the energy in motion, right? Because if you went back in 6 months or 12 months later, you'd notice that things are starting to change. But somebody had to break the energy, somebody had to start, and you were brave enough to step in and do it.

Hello everyone, this is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my podcast Finding Brave. I've created this show for everyone who longs to create something bold and brave in their life. To rise up, speak up, and stand up for who they are and to reach their highest and biggest visions. Each week I'll be speaking with inspiring guests from all walks of business, leadership, entertainment, the creative arts, and the entrepreneurial world. And they'll be sharing their intimate stories of finding brave and offer their best strategies for building your most rewarding, joyful, and meaningful life, business, and career. Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. I know I say this a lot and it's true, I just feel so very blessed to speak to the people I speak to on this podcast. I feel like it's, um, a masterclass in every dimension of life and work that we would want to know. And boy, today is no different. I have the— we have the amazing honor and just blessing to be speaking with Jeffrey Allen today. First of all, Jeffrey, you've come, you're in Tokyo, it's early in the morning and you've just gotten over COVID. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to be with us. Thank you. So much.

Oh, thanks, Kathy. Yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm excited to be here and yeah, it's gonna be really fun.

It's gonna be so fun. People, I think you're in for a very huge treat. And this is not something I've covered in the show in this way. Well, Jeffrey's one of a kind, so I wouldn't have done it, you know, in this way. But we are going to bridge some areas of career and leadership and personal growth and performance. And talk about— there's so much we're going to talk about, but the first piece is— I didn't even prep you on this title, Jeffrey. I hope it's okay. Taking a Brave Leap to Live Your Purpose. And I feel like we're also talking about how do I— how do we identify the work that we're meant to do and how we authentically want to do it? Would you say that hits— it hits home with your key messages?

Yeah, it really hits home because especially now there's more and more people that are sort of naturally tuning into what their inner guidance is saying, like what they truly want, whether they're trying or not. Even if you're not on a, like, a concrete personal growth path of your own, it doesn't matter. The energy right now is set so that all of us are sort of getting more authentic, whether you're asking for it or not. And so being authentic comes with what you just said, Kathy Caprino. It comes with this realization that 'Ah, my priorities are shifting a little bit. My desires are shifting. I'm like, even though I'm glad I'm doing what I'm doing and I feel, you know, successful at it, I don't feel as fulfilled as I used to. And I'm kind of wanting to do this thing over here, which sounds a little scary, and maybe I won't make as much money, or, you know what I mean, like, or maybe people will think I'm funny,' you know. So a lot of people have been going through that right now. Wow. Even, even more than before. So yeah, perfect.

Well, this is perfect. So folks, let me tell you about Jeffrey. His bio is amazing. Jeffrey Allen is a spiritual thought leader, Mindvalley author and speaker, a powerful energy healer. I can attest to this. And a pioneer in online energy training. Oh, through his programs with Mindvalley, he's introduced more than 1 million people worldwide to the exciting world of personal energy healing to improve their relationships, deepen their spiritual connection, and increase their personal presence, happiness, and impact in the world. Jeffrey's mission is to make energy work and accessing a higher consciousness available to everyone so we each can unburden ourselves from conflict and pain and build fulfilling lives of true passion, purpose, and meaning. Jeffrey now lives in Toronto with his beautiful wife, Hisami. What a story about how you met. Maybe we'll touch on that.

Tokyo, actually. Yeah, Tokyo.

What did I say? Toronto?

You got the first syllable.

Oh my goodness. It's late for me, Jeffrey. It's late for me. Yes, Tokyo. That's the story. And fascinatingly, you don't quite speak fluent Japanese yet, do you?

No, I don't. Even though I've been here 15 years living in Tokyo. And we've been married 15 years. I'm still not fluent vocally and I'm mostly illiterate, which is really unusual. Like 15 years I've been illiterate. This is so strange.

In terms of the language.

In Japan. Yeah.

Right.

Right. Obviously in English I'm great. Yes.

And you were an incredible software engineer and brilliant analytical mind. I really would love to get to that. I wonder, is it possible? We're not done with the bio. Here we go. I'm asking questions. Is it possible that the universe doesn't want you to actually speak with words the same language?

Well, that's, that's part of it. You know, Hisami and I are both, both very tuned in energetically. She is more so than me. Like, she's naturally— Hisami's— from the time she was born, her whole life, she never really felt disconnected from the source. She never felt the sense of separation that, that it's kind of normal for almost everybody. But, you know, so when we met, even though we didn't, you know, we didn't speak the same language, energetically we could really feel each other and we could communicate that way. And, and there's something really pure about that. I always tell people, if you want to have a really fun first date with somebody, don't talk.

I've told 10 people that because I've seen so much of your material. I think that the average person, not average, I don't mean that, a person who's not tapped into energy would be so intimidated. I'm not discouraging folks, but you and she speak the same language of energy, I think. And I know she has it. And I'm fascinated about how you said she never read, she never trained. She must have been born into it. Well, all right, I have questions, but I do wanna tell everybody that— yes, it's Tokyo, my goodness. And you've created with her a transformational course, which I can attest to. I've listened to every chapter 3 times, Awakening Your Spirit Mind. And you talk about, teach about the spirit mind versus the material mind, which is so helpful, and why energy is shifting now. So let's start from the top. And I would love to talk, have you talk about briefly, you were a software engineer, made good money, beautiful house, but you had other callings. And so, you know, part of this is how do we hear those and honor those? And what does it take to actually make the leap? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, you bet. You bet. So, uh, yeah, I was a software engineer for 15 years. That's my training, mathematics and computer science. And I loved it. I really enjoyed being a software engineer. But somehow it, I didn't, like I said, I just didn't feel fulfilled. And it was really weird because I would, like I said, I'd get up, like I'm leaving my beautiful house, driving my cool car, going to my cushy job, making good money. Why do I hate it? I don't understand.

It was that visceral?

Like, I hate this. Yeah. I'm like, how can this be terrible? It's like, feels terrible. I'm like, I don't understand, because there's nothing wrong. And, um, but you know, that whole time also I'd been doing energy work on the side. So I had this side gig, like doing intuition and energy healing. It was just something fascinating that I was, you know, I was surprised it was even possible. I found some schools that could teach, and I'm like, sure, see if you can teach me that. If you can teach an engineer that, anybody can learn, right? And, um, so as that was opening, I I started to get the sense that, wow, when I'm doing that, I'm helping people directly and I can feel it. I can see it in there. I can see the change in people's lives when I'm doing this engineering thing. Most of the software we write doesn't actually get installed. I can't really see that I'm helping anybody other than myself. Like I'm making good money. It's really helpful for me, but, but I want to help other people too. Right. I don't want to, I want to do both. I want to, I want to have abundance and I want to help people. And I think that's the way. Money is actually set up to work for us. If we focus on helping people and giving, it's natural that abundance and money is going to flow back to us. So yeah, so the transition for me is, you know, I was in that space of suffering and I just, I just got this hit that, you know, something's going to change. And for me, a big thing with intuition is to not ask why or how. If you know the what and you know the when, that's enough. So I'm like, okay, things are going to shift. I'm going to be out of this. It's going to take about 2 years, and I'm going to be doing something else. I'm pretty sure it's going to be energy work, but you know, whatever it is, I'm okay. And knowing that it was 2 years later gave me the freedom to relax. Like, I don't need to figure it out. I know how the universe works for me, and it's It's things are going to shift, right? So I kind of relaxed and just leaned into being present in my job. And sure enough, about a year and a half later, I noticed, ah, it's, it's, uh, it was actually 2005. I'm like, oh, this is the year things are supposed to shift for me. Nothing's changed yet. Interesting. What's going to happen? And then coincidence after coincidence, things opened up. I ended up moving, um, or not moving, end up getting a month off. Of work paid, which I didn't expect. That happened to line up exactly with— somebody later told me, oh, I want you to come to Africa and teach at my intuition school. I'm like, just everything lined up, and I didn't actually do anything other than say yes and step in, which was super scary, right? Saying yes and stepping in is scary, right? And it was that time, that one month when I was in Africa teaching, and the students there, I was afraid they were going to find out that I'm an engineer just pretending to be a healer.

Imposter.

Yeah. And, uh, because even though I've been doing it for 10 years, this was new to me to do it at this level. But all they only knew me as their teacher's teacher, and they totally accepted that. Uh, by the end of the month, I accepted it, and I realized, oh, I'm actually a healer pretending to be an engineer. No wonder I'm not happy. Like, it was just such a, such a big shift, just, you know, just to try something out you know, and, and get that feedback. And that's when I was like, okay, I'm all in, universe, just whatever, just bring it to me. And within, again, within the next 5 to 6 months, everything lined up. Um, I had, I had moved out, I'd sold my house, uh, at a time when that was difficult. I had, uh, moved to Sedona. I didn't even know about that place before. And all of a sudden I'm in this whole new life and I'm, I'm, I feel fulfilled. I feel happy. I feel excited. Even though it's Syrian. So it's—

All right, I have questions. Can I ask you?

Yeah.

People, I— there's so much fabric of what you've said, so many stories that I want you to listen to, Geoffrey, on YouTube, on, um, find everything you can, because the stories about how you were guided here, they're so captivating. But I've listened to hours of you, Jeffrey, and here's my— there's like 3 questions I have. Um, so a little bit of disclosure. I was telling Jeffrey before, um, you know, I did quickly— I, I remember, and I've never said this out loud, I'm gonna really— maybe you will know the answer to this, but I remember when I was in 5th grade. I'm bringing it up for a reason. All I can tell you, and people don't get scared, yes, I'm a career and leadership coach, but here we go. I remember I would get this weird metallic taste in my mouth mouth. Maybe it happened 10 times, and suddenly it was like I could see the classroom from the ceiling. Have you ever had that kind of experience where I could see everything from up here? I never told anyone because I thought— and I even looked up years later, metallic taste in your mouth, what does that mean? But I knew early on that something's a little strange here with me. And then Quickly after corporate life, I became a therapist and I could see and feel things that were not being communicated. I could see videos in my mind. But the reality is I got scared about it because I don't think I was well-boundaried and no one in my life or my master's degree in therapy really, I think, would've understood that. So I tell everybody that, and still to this day, I can feel energy. I'm an HSP, highly sensitive person, but it's more than that. But Jeffy, this is what I wanna understand. You said you knew, okay, in 2 years my life is gonna change. What I've been struck with listening to you is you hear, you call them your guides, I think. You hear them so clearly and you listen. Yeah, I don't think I'm wrong in saying this is the one thing that most people are going to struggle with. And I have tried myself so hard to really listen to the voice of guidance. And what's interesting is, before maybe 2 years, there was a group of guides that I could hear and talk to. And I can't hear them now. I can't hear them. And I'm wondering if there's been a shift energetically or a quantum shift. I'm not hearing them. But the question is, have you always, as a child, had this gift? And how did you learn to hear? Yeah. And, and understand the this is a voice I should listen to? Sure.

Yeah, yeah. I would say the answer is both yes, both yes and no. And, and to your story for just a moment, like when, when you're saying, did the guides go away, or what happened there? What's happened is you've integrated that awareness.

They're in me now. They're me.

Yeah, you're, you're listening, but you're contextualizing it differently. And, and that's why I say, um, huh, that's why I say yes and no. Have you always had this? Because We can really only see what's part of our belief system, right? And fortunately, there's— our experiences shape that, but it's very common for us to want to discount or throw away experiences that don't fit in our beliefs because it begs the question, like, is society going to accept us? Are we going to be kicked out of the tribe? You know, it probably goes back to tribal days, right?

It's primordial. It's, you know, life or death, I think.

But I remember when I was in my late 20s, it was when I first got into this intuition school, and we're sitting in a circle and we're doing this guided meditation with the teacher, and they're saying, you know, tune in and just visualize an apple. And we go around the room and talk about it. And I remember one guy, he was just this, you know, really interesting person, just had a normal job. Everybody in there had normal jobs. None of us were like professional, you know, crazy people. That's what they called it back then. And, and, and he'd say, oh yes, I can see the apple in the detail and the stem and this in the background. He'd go in, it's like he's seeing this whole painting in detail, right? And I was just— it'd come around to me and it'd be my turn. I'm like, well, if it's a black apple in a black room, I'm seeing it clearly. Meaning I'm seeing nothing. I'm seeing— I'm getting nothing.

I got nothing here.

And I remember that that was— that happened for a long time. And I did. I couldn't hear anything. I couldn't see anything, or so I thought, right? Yeah. The trick is that I was, I was in the part of the mind that doesn't access that. I was in the— we call it— somebody calls it the material mind.

Right.

And, and that, that mind is not for that purpose. It's about things you can touch, feel, the body, logic, emotions. You know, it's— it has a whole different purpose. But it doesn't have access to intuition. It doesn't have access to, uh, the— just that interconnected information stream that has, you know, across all time and space and everything, everybody, all at once. You know, that doesn't— it can't tap into that. Um, wow. So it's what I— but what I noticed over time, like, that started coming in. I practiced a lot, so it got a lot better. I, uh, experimented with it, you know, and so it got a lot better. I just had fun. I was curious instead of seriously trying. All those things help. And then I noticed people would ask me this question, right? So, oh, when's the first time you heard your guides? And at first it's like, oh, I remember it was, uh, like I was 32, I was in Sedona, was— this was happening. And then somebody else would ask me the question a year later, and I'd be like, oh, actually I kind of remember now, I was 25. And then somebody else would ask the question later, I'm like, actually now I kind of remember when I was 10, like something happened. And then— and that's when I started getting it. And I was teaching and seeing the same thing in other people too. And I was like, We all have these experiences all the time. It's part of being alive. We're all intuitive, we're all healers, we're all mediums because we're spirits occupying bodies. This is just part of the game. But we're not paying attention to that. We've been told, like, if you do that, you might get burned at the stake, right? So it's very scary to lean into that metaphorically, or not realistically burned at the stake, right? No.

Do you happen to believe in past lives, Jeffrey?

I do, in the sense that, you know, I did professional readings for 10 years just talking to people over the phone. I'd never met them, I didn't even see them, and like you said, I could, as soon as we started talking, I could see the whole thing. It's like a video playing out across—

Of my energy, or?

Yeah, of the person that I'm reading, and then they could say, "Oh, and then my brother, my brother's wife, my brother's wife's daughter," you know, and it just all kind of shifts. It's like all the information is there. And, um, it was fascinating, you know, and I always told people, I can't tell you that what I'm seeing is true, but what I can do is tell you what I'm seeing. And, and I love that.

That's really ethical.

Yeah. And if it's, and hopefully it's helpful. And if it's not, that's totally okay too. Just let it go. Anything that's not helpful or feels bad or scared you, let it go. But, but it's, it's kind of interesting. Let's see what, let's see what I see. So we'll just dive in and, um, But what I saw there in with regard to past lives is that, yeah, very clear images of past lives. When I would tell people this, what I was seeing, they would say, wow, for the first time ever, my family makes sense now. The way you described all the relationships in that past life, the ones that are playing out in this life too. Now I understand why I feel that way about my brother, my mom, my father, my kids. You know, it, it sort of was, and I was shocked.

Like, like I said, I'm just, you know, I'm like, because it's coming to you, you're, you know, here it is. I'm gonna tell you what I see.

I don't know if I agenda it. Yeah, it's no like special wisdom that I have, you know. I would tell people, I'm like, it's not like you're asking me for something that I know. It's just I just happen to have figured out how to look at that, and I, I like talking about it.

And, um, it's so fantastic. I do want to—

I— one quick thing though, but what I noticed, just like I said with your guides, how you're contextualizing it differently now and then it feels like they're not there in the same way. Yes, the same thing is true with past lives. So contextually, it seems like it's one person going from life to life on a thread. But the deeper I look, I realize that's not actually true. It's not— the spirit world does not operate as linearly as the material world. Because I started noticing that there's— there are past lives, and there are past lives that I've experienced. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're unique to me. Like that. There's some, there's some collective, just like there's a collectiveness in our consciousness, even in present time in this life, there's also this collectiveness in, in the past as well. So it's, but it's really hard to understand that. It's hard to understand infinity when you're dealing with the, you know, with your mind that knows finite things and is a finite expert.

So, um, well, you know, I had a past life regression. And all I can tell you is the woman's name was Mary, and I felt what it was to be in her body and to have a different mind. It was a simple mind, not an anxious mind, not an inter— it would— I mean, I literally felt what it was to be another human being. So, but I understand, I understand what you're talking about. Um, there was something I wanted to ask you Darn it. Oh, as you're all listening, folks, my wish is that you naturally find a way to connect with what we're saying and not think, oh, that's so weird and that's so way out. Because the more people I know, the more we have what you're talking about. We just don't identify. Label it this way, but this is what I want to say. I heard 5 times that you said before you'd really stepped into this world, this life, your boss would send you in your software engineering world to these meetings that you— yeah, you were getting on planes, you were going to meetings that you— what am I doing here? I don't even— I'm not even on this project. And she— I know I'm paraphrasing, but This is how I heard it. She said, "But you make the meeting go better. Everybody gets along better." And I was so struck because— and people, I think you're gonna resonate with this. For years, I would walk into a meeting and it wasn't, I don't think, that I made people feel better. It was that I could feel what they were feeling. Oh, she's very threatened. He's afraid. He's checked out. This one's jealous. I would just feel it. But my material mind, later, after I became a therapist, said, well, that was because in my childhood I kind of had to really be vigilant about what was going on in order to, you know, Kathy Caprino. Yeah, that's true too. So what's fascinating is it's not either or, right? But I think there's a lot of people listening who might nod their head and say, oh, I think I make people feel better in meetings. Can you elaborate on that? I thought that was so cool.

Yeah, definitely. It's so natural. And yeah, two things come to mind. One is, yeah, in that, that was in the corporate world. I was working for Sun Microsystems. And I was just bored. Meetings were boring for me. And so I would just sit there. And I was like, well, let's play with this other thing, this energy thing. So I'd just sit in the meeting. And play with the energy. So I'd look at if people weren't communicating, I could kind of see like, oh yeah, there's a lot of, you know, tension there. And so I just had my hands under the table and I'm kind of like, just kind of seeing it.

And this is what you do, people who are watching the video, you use your, you move energy with your hands, don't you? Yeah.

Yeah. It's just, it's just natural. It's, it's not, um, yeah, I guess the thing that's unique to me is that at some point I stopped caring if people thought it was weird.

Well, there's the key.

And like, and once you do that, all of a sudden it's like, okay, so I'm excited about talking to people who are very much like me in the sense that they're very analytical, they're very logical, they're very, you know, kind of counter what you would think to a person being intuitive, and they're highly intuitive. Like, there's just so many people like that. Creative people are so intuitive. That's all that flow that's coming through you all the time. Or like you said, when you walk into a meeting and it's like you're connecting with people and you can see the change and people— there's some kind of relief there. You don't even know why it's happening because it happens all the time. You know, your experience seems normal, but it's not. Not everybody has that effect.

That's right.

But, but if you start to notice that, and, um, and like you said, you're looking around feeling what people are feeling, as long as you're not judging it, it flows really easily.

And you have empathy for it. Oh, that's why they're behaving like that. And sometimes I'll even see, as a child, they never were listened to, so when they're talked over, they get very triggered. I'm sitting there having all these thoughts. Focus, Kathy. But I have another question for you that I haven't heard you talk about. I, I think some people might have experienced what I'm about to share, and that's why we shut down. So how many years have I been doing this work since I was a therapist? 20. Um, I was invited to give a series of workshops for a particular organization. It was women, and I made the mistake of saying, you know, I, we, I was talking about kind of a higher self, but it's not a religious concept at all. It's a spiritual concept as I mean it. But I mentioned that I talked to my angels, and I didn't mean it religiously.

Yeah.

And they all seemed okay with it. And I said, you know, not all of you are going to do that, but what I'd like you to— maybe you want to talk, walk in nature, or you want to whatever. So I leave the room, leave it. It looked like a great workshop. I was coming back next week, and the boss runs out into the parking lot shaking, saying, I'm sorry, but We can't have you back. I can't even say this without crying.

Wow.

And I said, what happened? And she said, they're all freaked out. So the mistake I made, and I recognize this now, when we use religious connotations, words like God, it's so subjective what we think is whether we think there's Source or the universe, or we don't. And I hear smiling, Kathy, I'm sure you have a lot to say. I steer clear of that because I'm triggered by very religious content, because I'm a spiritual person. And I've had a lot of experiences with a lot of, with a lot of different religions. But I think I misunderstood what was going on there. And I shut down. He's laughing. Will you tell me?

Yeah, I'd say you did misunderstand it, I would say. Because you said that the mistake you made, but I don't see that at all. As you're telling the story and I can see it playing out, there was no mistake at all.

How so?

What they wanted, what they needed was somebody to come in. You have a lot of people that are really dogmatically positioned. They want to change, but they're afraid that you know, it's like a group thing. One individual changing is scary, so they kind of stick in the pack, right? They needed somebody to come in and be like the bowling ball to knock over all the pins, to put the energy in motion, right? Because if you went back in, uh, 6 months or 12 months later, you'd notice that things are starting to change. But somebody had to break the energy. Somebody had to start, and you were brave enough to step in and do it. And it's— it's—

what a reframe, right?

It's beautiful.

I wish I'd talked to you 18 years ago. Oh my.

But, but you also had your personal part too. So what it did for you is it also knocked some things over in you and caused you to, you know, uh, think, oh, maybe I should see this differently. Maybe I— you know what I mean? It's that— it's the same thing that happens to all of us when we step into something new and scary. Um, it doesn't make it less scary to do it, it makes it more scary to do it. And then some people are going to give us negative feedback, and that's even scarier. It hits us harder.

Well, unfortunately, I didn't have anyone like you to talk to about, okay, well, let's look at it. What do you want to take from that? But it just did is shut me down and scare me. Have you ever had that? Have you ever had people say you're crazy?

You see what happened energetically, right? So that energy being shut down and stuck and scared, you pulled some of that out of that group.

I did.

And took it with you, right? Oh, yeah. Because you're an empath, right? You said you're highly sensitive. Did you forget that? So when you went in that group and you're You're talking here, you're like, woohoo, here we go, vibration. You're like, okay, let's all come up to this vibration. People can do it in the moment. And then up there, it's, you're in resonance, you're able to say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to take some of that with you. I have similar pain. I'm going to take that with me because I have, maybe I have more tools and enthusiasm for healing it. And then so you left and all of a sudden, like, it really helped them. But yeah, it was, it was more for you to process. Um, but yeah, no, no mistakes. That's why when you start really looking deeply at energy and, and being brave, going with the flow, trying these, these things out, uh, what I've noticed is I don't have any regrets. There's, there's, there's no judgment about the way things went down. I can always, I can always see how I could have done better or differently, and I'm going to change and do things, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn and improve, but there's no real mistakes in the moment. And so now, once you can step into that, boy, life gets—

can I step into that? It's much easier starting this minute. I think that segues well, and I'm keeping you over. We'll make it a two-part series, Jeffrey, if you're okay.

Sounds great.

This is Spirit Mind versus Material Mind. I think you tell me, and you're going to— and this course, Awakening the Spirit Mind, is so beautiful about how the energy today has shifted on this planet and elsewhere, etc. But can you explain, just in this one way— you live in a, in a manner that I think anybody would kill to, that you don't feel there's regret. You don't feel that, yes, okay, I could have done this better. You're not saying you're perfect, you're not a narcissist, but You don't harbor it. It doesn't get in the way. Most humans, I think— you tell me, you work with millions— um, when, when there's something that we view as a misstep or painful, we regret, we beat ourselves up. And I think we don't process it in a way, unless we're really evolved, the way you just helped me process that painful trigger experience. Do you think that if we could give people tips— and, and watch the course, the— there's a link below, people, but listen, watch, there's visuals, it's incredible— but do you feel it's the material mind versus the spirit mind that gives us those reactions? Oh, I blew it, I'm not good enough, I'm going to be rejected. Is that the material mind?

Yeah, definitely. That's the material mind, which is the mind that's great at the material world, organizing things, uh, counting things, assessing, monitoring, judging, measuring, all these things. It's also very emotional. And, um, yeah. And so the trick there, you actually said it, but maybe I'll say it again just to make it more clear, is that when you start noticing that you actually have two minds and that's okay. You don't have to try to turn this off. Like, when I say that there's no regrets, I'm talking when I'm over here. Like, from, from spirit mind, I have no regrets. I know that it's true that I'm doing my best. I'm helping even when I don't— even when I think I'm causing pain, I'm also helping in some way. You know, like, I, I trust the universe. I trust myself. The whole system is really beautiful. And I also have this other mind. I have it too. So I'll feel like, oh, I screwed up, that was terrible. But I don't take it seriously, right?

You don't.

So what I used to do is like—

How long does it take you to have it and then let it go?

It's getting faster and faster. It's getting faster and faster. But it used to be this would come in and then I would just be in this space for weeks, months, years, right? And then, and things can stay with us forever. But once I started to say, oh, okay, you know, like Hisami's trick, my wife Hisami, she always just says, ask yourself, which mind is this? It's like, oh, oh, that's my material mind. All of a sudden I've moved it a little bit further away, there's a little distance, and it's over here, and I'm still— I'm not part of it. Ooh, something shifted. Now I can see myself with a different clarity. I can see myself with love. I can see a different, a different story. Doesn't mean the story is not true, it's just that there's two things happening all the time. And if you're only listening to the one that, that makes you feel unfulfilled and like you've made mistakes, it's, it's rough. It's really rough. But you can also listen to the other one that's saying things are beautiful. Actually doesn't have words. So I'm trying to paraphrase here, but that energy of spirit mind is this sense of peaceful presence, love, this universal wisdom. You know, there's so many words for it, but none of them are sufficient. And when you can have that too, it's like all of a sudden I have compassion for the part of me that has pain and suffers and feels guilty and gets angry and, you know, like all that. It's— I don't have to, I don't have to make that all stop. I don't have to stop being a human to also appreciate that I'm human.

Oh, all right, two things I want to say and one I want to ask. One thing I adore about your course, and you— we don't see this much with teachers. You have said Hisami is advanced in your mind in, in a lot of ways, that you learned a lot from her. And in your course, you'll say, oof, this video was very helpful for me just yesterday. I got very defensive about, you know, elevated teachers don't often want to be to show that they're going through the material at the same time they're teaching it. And I want to tell you, I really admire that because I feel it makes you more real. I don't want to just be talking to a guru who's so evolved that they can't remember what I'm feeling. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just— I'm thanking you for that.

But yeah, we're all in it together. We're all— there's no— I don't think of myself as like super different than everybody else, even though I know that I express myself differently. I'm like, I'm a little bit less prone to get stuck in fear. I have this adrenaline junkie part of me that serves me well in my personal growth, you know, and, and, but still, I'm not really that different. We're all very, very similar. Everybody, like I said, everybody's intuitive, everybody's a healer, everybody's a medium. We all have pain and, and and, and, uh, frustration. And we tend to, when we're circulating it inside, we spread it to other people. You know, that's just natural. And, um, but we also all have love inside and compassion, and when we're circulating that, we spread that to other people.

So, but I have to push back. We may all have inherently the ability to be healers, but most of them, most of us are not pursuing it. So you are different, and I think you're so humble. I think you don't see how different you are, and maybe that serves you not to.

But well, I would say one quick thing there before you dive into questions. So as a profession, maybe. Yeah. So yeah, I was a professional healer for a long time, or have been. And, but I don't think that's the only way to do healing. Like when I, when I go and get my haircut at the salon, that person's a healer, right? They're talking to me, they're listening to me, they're touching my hair and working on me. They're like, they're all wrapped up in my emotions about my appearance.

And my therapist, while I'm in the chair.

Yeah, people are doing healing work all the time. And that's one thing I want to, I always want to, a little caveat add is just because I quit my engineering career and went into this doesn't mean that you have to. There's also an equally valid way to say, I'm changing my motive, my way of seeing the world. The things that interest me are changing, but I want to stay exactly in the career I'm in and bring a new flavor to it. I want to bring that light and that awareness into this place that I'm already in, which I'm not trying to go somewhere else. Yeah, that's, that's totally okay too. We need light and love everywhere.

So I love it. And this might be my material mind, but I think there's so many— how do I want to say it? There are many damaged humans who are not healing.

Ah, yeah. Okay, I got you.

Am I not, am I not right?

Uh, yeah, if you're in pain and confusion, right? All of us, when we're in pain and confusion and circulating that, we can't help but spread that to others.

That's right. And so that's a differentiation I'm making.

Yeah, so, so, and when you, when you see it like that from the energy perspective, instead of seeing like, here's a person doing horrible things and being harmful, you say, that person must be in a lot of pain and confusion. I can't imagine the level of pain and confusion I'd have to be in to do those things.

Yeah.

And then suddenly, even though I still loathe the things they're doing, all of a sudden they're a human. I have compassion for them. And that's weird. The first time I was like, what? I'm starting to have compassion for dictators? Like, what? This is too much. I want to, I want to hit them. No, but actually hating the people that are already in pain and confusion just makes it worse, right? Right. It just makes it worse.

Um, and for— and then we're feeling it, you know. Yeah, good. I, I think, I think you and I see Similarly. All right, now here's a question. I also have been listening a lot to Dr. Joe Dispenza. Do you know of him?

Yeah.

And I find your work and his, you know, very different but in some ways complementary. So check him out, people. But he talks about quantum and that one thing I find helpful, that if you want a different reality, he says, I think he says, you have to change your personality to change your personal reality. So, you know, if you're going to resist things and push against it, and you know, it's going to be very hard to experience a different reality. Um, here's what I want to ask you, because I think some people will— part of my material mind does this. Let's not project it on other people. I want to be, and I have been, an incredible positive thinker. It will all work out. And sometimes it has not all worked out. It's been a disaster. And what I'm very worried about, careful about, is I don't want to just go to a positive thinking place but yet not take action. Like, you know, I've been— it'll be world— it'll be okay, it'll be okay. And it wasn't okay because I was just in that positive thinking mode. Are you following me?

Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's, um, so how can we— normal. Yeah.

Yeah. How can we— what do you think about that when I say, do you ever see people doing that and they're confusing that with the spirit mind? Do you understand what I'm asking?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So what you're talking about is, uh, what I would call material mind spirituality versus spirit mind spirituality. So we have two minds. And this one is, the spirit mind is always connected. It's not even connected. It just is this universal consciousness and love. You know, it's, it just is. And so you have that. Everybody has that. But we're much more used to using this mind over here.

Right.

Which, because that's just what we get validated for. It fits well in the material world. And, you know, it's, you know, we make more money, we think, if we're doing what, you know, this mind. Uh, wow. And this mind likes to figure things out and make models, right? So, uh, this mind will like build up, uh, a set of premises. Uh, you know, we can maybe put affirmations on our mirror, you know, and we can, we can build up a set of beliefs about and then convince ourselves that it's true. Like, because we oddly, we, we always believe that our story is a true story, the story that we're making up. This is, uh, And I don't want to scare anybody here or offend them too bad, but I'm sorry, but your stories are not true. Your beliefs are not true universally. Neither are mine, right? Because this mind's job is to fill in the blanks, right? The job is to take a limited set of information, a limited set of understanding, because this— the spirit mind is the only one that has a full understanding. Material mind is taking a limited set of information and then making— extrapolating, kind of filling in the blanks. It's, it's, that's what it's for. And that's what it's doing all the time. It's always making stories, right? We're always making stuff up and, and we have this just fascinating ability to believe ourselves all the time. Right. And this one, this one really strikes me as funny because, um, I've done this so many times and I see everybody doing it. Like, I'll be totally convinced that something is true and then I'll get some new information and new insight and I'll be like, ah, I was wrong. I was wrong. Like, I thought— I'll just pick a silly example. I thought eggs were bad and I got new information and now eggs are good, right? Okay. I was totally wrong and I'm— now I'm totally right. Okay. So if I just in a moment went from like totally believing one thing to totally believing the opposite, what's to say that what I'm believing now isn't just something I've fabricated, made up and just grabbed onto? Nothing. It is. We're always just— our belief system is always evolving. It doesn't really mean anything. I'm not saying it's not useful, like we need that, it's super important. But when you can kind of take a step back and say, um, the things I believe, uh, that are helping me and bringing me joy and helping me spread joy and love and peace and everything that I want to spread to other people, I want to hang on to those. But the ones that— the things I believe that make me feel bad about myself and other people I want to find some new beliefs to fill that in. I want to, I want to grow those or change them or evolve them into something that, that, you know, I'm not circulating this energy of despair or pain or frustration or anger. I want to, I want to change that. And just, just wanting that, that's enough to open it up a little bit. And those new beliefs and experiences will come in. And, um, you know, I always tell people when I start my workshops, because I know what I'm talking about is, is kind of far out for a lot of people. I always say, you know, are there any intuitives in the room? Are there any healers in the room? And I say, are there any skeptics in the room? And a few people raise their hand. I said, I'm with you. Like, I'm one of those people too. Like, I think that my beliefs should be based on my experiences. That's why I encourage people to experiment and try things, even things you don't think will be true. Try them out and find out for yourself, right? And then all the skeptics are nodding, that makes sense. And I say, So if your beliefs should be based on your experiences, are yours? Are the beliefs you have right now based on your own experiences? Think about it. Tell me why you believe the things you believe. Why do you think this isn't true? Why do you think that? And people are like, hmm, because my beliefs are true. Because my beliefs are true. And I'm like, okay, so you're going to have to set that aside. Tell me, why are they true? What experience backs them up? Do you have any? And then this is something I went through in my early 20s when I was first having intuitive experiences. I had this, you know, I was like, okay, something doesn't jive here. My experiences, my beliefs don't match. Which one's insane? And eventually I was like, I'm going with experiences. Something's wrong with my beliefs. Uh, where did I get them? Best I can come up with is my parents, my teachers, people around me, TV. And all hearsay. Very few were based— I was very young— very few were based on my beliefs, or my experiences, rather. I see. Just that little key, like that little opening, suddenly it's like, ah, so being skeptical is great, but don't just apply it to everybody else, apply it to yourself. All right, cool.

Question, question. You're going to be— you need a nap after this. Um, as I hear you A lot of what the material mind teaches us and reinforces in us causes pain, causes separation, causes— is it always that what the spirit mind delivers to us, gives to us, is always peaceful, always loving, always of that energy?

Yeah, it's a, it's a how would you say, like a holistic unconditional love observation space. So it's seeing things how they actually are energetically, not the way we want them to be, not the way we think they should be, not the way we're afraid they might be. It's just seeing what's actually happening. Like my wife, you saw me, she just calls it the real world. She's like, she just always told me, she's like, I just live in the real world, so I don't really understand why everybody else lives in this— it ain't real for a while because they're not happy. Why is everybody in that fantasy world? Or now you could call it virtual reality. We all have our own virtual reality that we're in all the time, but you don't have to be. You can, you can have that— like, you can take the headset off sometimes and also look at the real world and then put the headset back on because it's fun, you know.

All right, Jeffrey, here's what we have to do in the remaining 10 minutes. I can hear when you share about it. And when she shares, um, it's so natural. Like, I'm in the real world, she says. But so, so many of us, we didn't have access to these beautiful beliefs. We had programming, we had training. I'm not trying to blame our parents. They did the best they could, you know. And here I'm walking out of being fired from the thing thinking I failed, and there was no one there who could say just hang on a minute now, wait a minute, let's look at it from the spirit line. So it isn't real to most of us what you're talking about, and I'm not trying to push back, you know this, you train millions of people. How can we, when we're talking to people, and a lot of my world are very analytical geniuses, they've written 10 bestselling books, they're advising governments. I'm not saying they can't be spiritual, don't get me wrong, but Highly analytical, coming up with frameworks that teach. How can we help people who may have very well-developed material minds that have worked for them in a lot of ways?

Mm-hmm.

Gosh, somebody comes to mind who I have to share. April Rennie, who I had on the show. I just wanna say she, her story is that she got a phone call in college. I'm gonna cry at 20 that her parents were both killed in a car accident. Ah, what she has done with her life and what she drew— I can't even say it— from who they were and what they gave her. It's so— she's so beautiful and so remarkable, and she's making such a difference in the world. She teaches about flux, how we can thrive in constant change. I mean, what could be more healing? But I think often it takes a life-changing experience to rip away— I don't know if she would agree with this terminology, but rip away that facade of what we think life is, and so that we have to see it differently. Anyway, I digress. How do we— and I'm dying to know what you think— how do we help people who want what you're talking about? But they're so immersed in the material mind. I mean, listen to Jeffrey, listen to his meditations, listen, get his course. But what would you say 3 steps are to help us make the shift?

Yeah.

Did that make sense? My little diatribe there?

Yeah, totally. I would say, um, yeah, to that story, that, that's a really powerful way to shift. That's amazing that she was able to use that in that way. I know. The energy has changed though recently so that it takes less. You don't have to like, have a big crash in some place to be able to kind of shake up your beliefs. Everybody is starting to notice whether they like it or not that, you know, what they're thinking isn't totally true. So the stage is set right now for us to all change in a more graceful way. We don't have to have Wow. That life-changing event. Um, or our life-changing event can be small. Like I said, for me, a life-changing event was I took 2 weeks off from my engineering career, from my job, and, and built an addition on the back of my house with my friend who's a carpenter. 2 weeks outside enjoying, you know, doing physical labor that, you know, as soon as I went back in, I was sitting in a dark conference room pretending that things we're talking about are are super important. And I know it's sunny outside. What am I doing here? This stuff is not important. That was life-changing for me, right? Wow. Now, nobody— it didn't have to be traumatic, but that was, that was an aha moment. Like, why am I— like, I'm not, I'm not angry at the people in here anymore for having a, this meeting. I'm not angry that I'm here. I'm, I'm just noticed that I'm wasting my time here. I'm wasting the day and, and I'm wasting my life. Wow. Ah, okay, well, what do I want to do if it's not this? You know, that's, that's it. And so, yeah, so if there were 3 things—

yeah, I'm making you say 3, 3 things. Prep you.

Yeah, one would be, one would be just that, like, uh, noticing that— are you excited about what's happening right now? There's going to be some yes and some no there, right? So, and then number 2 is let that be okay. Like, totally okay. Nobody has all yeses. I don't have all yeses. I've got some frustrating things too. I just don't talk about those, you know, or actually I do talk about a lot of them, but, but, um, I can talk about them because I'm not, I'm okay with it. I'm okay that life is not all roses. It just wouldn't be that exciting if it was, right?

I mean, what are we doing here if it's all a playground, you know?

That's why we go to movies that are sad or scary or make us angry, because we enjoy it. Like, we don't have to be there. We paid money to be there because we enjoy it. We enjoy all, all the ups and downs and sides and everything. So that's okay. So too, yeah, let it, let it be okay that things aren't perfect where you are. And then number 3, I would say, is that let it— just like you're letting the situation be okay, Also let it be okay that you have two minds. This is such a powerful shift because then you don't have to change the mind that's bothering you. You don't have to change it. Just sometimes also notice, okay, I also can feel good. Yes, life right now is, is pretty rough when I look at the material world around me, either whether it's, it's money or health or friendships or, you know, whatever is really rough for you right now. That's still true, right? But somehow in the middle of it, there may be a moment where you're just like, ah, this is the best coffee I've ever had. This is wonderful. Like, okay, so you can have both of those experiences, right? You, you can be in that space of love, um, even though there's a lot of stuff happening that's hard and challenging and painful too. So let it be okay that you have these two and As soon as you open that up and stop trying to say, I have to make everything perfect over here before I can touch anything over here in the spirit mind, I have to make everything perfect in the material mind first, because that's not going to happen. You're never going to make everything perfect in your life because we're all aging. And so at some point that comes with some imperfections, you know, so it's, it's going to catch up with you eventually, right? You know, and so, and that's okay, that could be fun too. But so you're never going to be perfect in the material world. But you can all— you can always tap into that, that love, that perfection in the moment of whatever it is. And the more you do that, the more you let yourself have those moments, all of a sudden they start to fill up your days. And all of a sudden, my, my— even, even in a really tough time, I can have a whole day that's full of beautiful moments that I really enjoy. It doesn't— and I'm not faking it, I'm not pretending that I'm that I fixed everything. I'm not, like you said, I'm not pretending that there's this beautiful, my life is perfect. I'm just, I'm just really enjoying these moments even though my life isn't perfect.

Wonderful. Here's, I, I forget where we left off. We had a little bit of a break, but let me ask you the fourth step. I can understand easily how, gosh, this is horrible. I mean, what am I gonna do? But I can still have a walk in nature. There's water at the beach. There's, Now, how do we— you talk a lot about listening to your guidance, your guides that are giving you strategies or ideas and following the breadcrumb of that idea.

Yeah.

Would you say that would be the fourth step? Because we're going to appreciate, we're going to see that it's not either or. It doesn't have to be all horrible. But then what do we do next?

That's perfect. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, great question. Yeah. So, yeah, so the fourth step there is, so once you get into this state where you're able to say, okay, I'm not— it's okay that my life isn't perfect, I don't have to fix it all to have moments of joy, and then you start having those moments of joy, what you'll notice is that's when all the magic happens. That's when you figure out what you're doing, what the next step is, what your next idea is, where you're going in life. Because in those moments, you're tuned into spirit mind that has all that information all the time. And so all of a sudden, it's really fun. Like, I watch you, Sami, and we were talking the other day, last night. We just had dinner. She's still sitting at the counter. I'm like sitting on the couch, we're having this deep conversation. And all of a sudden, she just kind of freezes. She's got this half smile on her face. And she just kind of zones out like this. I know it's happening, but I'm just kind of watching her and smiling and appreciating that I get to be with this person that's so entertaining. And then about a minute goes by, and then she comes back and she's like, whoa, huh, I just got this huge understanding of everything. And then we just, and it was continue, right? And it wasn't about what we were talking about. It wasn't in the context that it's just Uh, when you're, when you're in the moment, all information is available, right? We know this from quantum physics actually, right? So when you're in the moment, every, everything is available. And so, and you're not, you don't have to figure it out. That's the mistake we usually make. I have to figure out how to fix my life.

Yes.

You don't have to do that. That's not your job. Like what you have to figure out is how to enjoy your life. And then what, what your true desires are, and then start saying yes to things that align with your true desires. And, and step in. Like, see, when the opportunities are coming to you— the universe is giving you opportunities all the time— when they come in, be brave and, and step in. Now, it's, um, it's funny, the analogy I like to use is like, for, you know, the way I see manifesting happening, or that the change happening, is that It's like I'm throwing myself a ball, right? So I have this idea of this, this vision, like, whoa, I see this amazing potential future. I'm going to say yes. And you just kind of like throw that, that pass, this Hail Mary, right? And then you just go back to your life. Maybe you check in and go, it's going to take 2 years for that ball to land. Okay. So you go back to your life and then you just have to notice all of a sudden later you'll be like, so you're drinking coffee, if that's your thing, and you're like, oh, In this beautiful moment, and all of a sudden you notice, whoa, oh, wait a minute, that opportunity is coming in from 2 years ago or 2 months ago or 2 days ago. Like, oh wow. Oh, I need to, I need to go to the store. And then you go to the store, you don't even know why. And then you're like, you bump into that person you've been trying to meet and can't get ahold of for months. You bump into them at the store. Oh, and then you have a conversation. They happen to have time. And then the next thing builds and the next thing builds is an opportunity. Everything lines up and it all comes together. You don't, um, figuring it out is the slow road.

Oh, and that is a quantum thing, isn't it? Yeah. Find yourself in the place of gratitude and excitement wherever you can. That's what I cannot thank you enough. Obviously I could talk to you for another 10 hours. This was a masterclass and a webinar and everything. I learned so much from you. And I'm so grateful because I can be honest with you, it's come exactly at the right time for me. I'm so grateful. So where does everybody— where do we send them? And of course I'm going to have links in, in the show notes below, but where can we send them to soak up even more of your experience?

Either go to spiritmind.com, that's where you'll find out about— you know, we've been talking about material mind and spirit mind and the work I've done with Usami, so you can find about it that at spiritmind.com. Or for me in general, you can go to iamjeffreyallen.com, and you'll also see my energy work training. You know, the more sort of popular one that maybe is a little more tangible for those of you that are really, you know, really into the material world and growth and, you know, making money or creating things or relationships. Like, if you need data and information, iamjeffreyallen.com. If you're just following the heart and you're just super ready to go that direction, spiritmind.com.

And I have a special link for spiritmind.com, so you'll see it below. I can't thank you enough. What a blessing and a gift you are in this world. And I can't imagine a time where we need what you're teaching and Hisami to more. It's challenging. Thank you. Thank you for joining me.

Thank you so much, Kathy Caprino.

Oh, so I'm so Blessed people, we want you to comment. We want to hear what you think. If you're skeptical, bring it on. If you don't understand— I mean, it was deep what we talked about. We would love to hear your questions, your comments. You can write. I know you're terribly busy— not terribly, wonderfully busy, watch the words. Um, but wherever you see this, if you have a question, we'd love to hear from you. And we certainly pray that this was healing for you and it gave you a new perspective. That you can step into with great joy. Thank you again, Geoffrey. Thank you so much. I hope you'll come back again.

I'd love to. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Everybody wishing you, you know, we were talking about Finding Brave. This is the definition of it. We were wishing you a wonderful Finding Brave 2 weeks, and we will see you next time. Thanks so much for joining us today. And please don't forget to check out findingbrave.org for more programs, resources, and tips. And tune in next time for your weekly dose of Finding Brave.