Finding Brave 70: Essential Rules for Building Mental Strength, Andrew Wittman

All right. Hello, everybody. I've taken my glasses off. Welcome to Finding Brave. What a series of episodes I've had. My. My head. You. I say this constantly, but my head is absolutely exploding with my guests. I mean, what. I'm pinching myself that I can sit and have conversations like with my guest, Andrew Whitman, who are so accomplished and so brilliant and have so much to say that we need to hear. So I think just get ready, folks. This is going to be amazing. We're talking about, with Andrew, essential rules for what to share about your child on social media. And I think we're going to go way beyond that. So what is parenting that brings up a resilient child? A child with self esteem, A child who feels safe in the world. We're going to talk all about that. Andrew, thank you for being here.

Oh, my gosh, Kathy, I am so excited to be. I'm like, like I said, I'm like starstruck. Okay. So when I started my consulting business back in 2013, mental toughness training center, like, you were one of the first people like, I subscribed to your newsletter and I've been, you know, a faithful subscriber since then. And you didn't even know it till we just, like, you know, talked about it, but I'm like, so. I'm such a huge fan of yours. It's just ridiculous. I'm so thrilled to be here. I'm so excited.

Thank you. That means the world to me. All right, folks, let me tell you about Andrew. I just read his full bio and holy cow. All right. Dr. Andrew Whitman is a United States Marine Corps infantry combat veteran, a former police officer and federal agent. A special agent for the US Capitol Police, Whitman led the security detail for Nancy Pelosi and has personally protected. I mean, can we just do a podcast on this? Hillary Clinton, Tom DeLay. I don't know Tom. Trent, Lottie, King Abdullah of Jordan, Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, Sir Elton John, as well as well as Fortune 20 CEOs. Oh, my gosh. As a security contractor for the State Department, he taught high threat diplomatic security to Navy SEALs, Marines, Rangers and Special Forces. Whitman is a founder of the Mental Toughness Training Center, a leadership consultancy specializing in peak performance team dynamics, resolving conflict in the workplace, and is the author of the books Ground Zero, CEO of youf and 7 Secrets of Resilience for Parents. You hold a PhD in theological studies and as a guest lecturer at Clemson University and co host the radio Call in show Get Warrior Tough. What? I mean, this is like seven. Seven careers in one, Andrew?

Yeah, pretty much. So. And. And like this, like, listen, my wife has had many panic attacks over this, because the second I get comfortable or I get bored with doing, like, I feel comfortable, like I'm stay. I quit a job and move on to something else.

I quit what I'm doing, feel training. I mean.

Yeah. So it's all been exciting, though, I got to tell you. I. It's. Yeah. Buckle up, man. I'm an adrenaline junkie.

I think you would have to be. Can you just. Because this is so. This is probably the most interesting bio I've ever red might be. Can you just tell me, of all of that, and that's a lot. What do you think taught you the most about life?

Yeah, this is a difficult one. Because my obsession with mental toughness, it started in the Marine Corps. Like, so what people don't know in that bio is that I was the fat kid in high school and I got bullied and I wasn't allowed to fight back. Right. So I was 5, 3, 185 pounds, and my nickname was beach ball. So I didn't want to go through life in fear and anxiety. So I knew I needed what the Marine Corps had. So it was like such a, you know, shift in mindset. And so that was the beginning of it. And. But the Marine Corps did really great at getting my body under control. But what I found out is after I got married and stuff and started having kids, that getting your body under control is the first level of mental toughness. Getting your emotions under control is something completely different. And so that's been my obsession. And I've learned. I'll tell you what, you cannot freak out in traffic when you're driving Nancy Pelosi around, right? And you're in the front. You're the agent in charge. You can't be yelling at somebody that cut you off, right? So you just be like. And so that really taught me the beginning of how to get my emotions under control.

Can I just ask you this? Because, you know, I'm a former therapist. Was. All right. How do I put this without being too invasive? Was some of what you learned in childhood also contributing to maybe a lack of mental toughness? Or was there trauma in childhood beyond.

No, no, no. My mom and now my mom and dad were missionaries. So it was. We were brought up in a really, you know, turn the other cheek. And we're, you know, and they're great people, but we just weren't allowed to fight back. We're pacifists, man. They freaked Out. When I joined the Marine Corps, I was, you know, I'm five out of six kids, and I was supposed to go in the ministry, right? So. And I joined the Marines.

You went to the Marines? I thought, oh, gosh, that. I don't know. I got the feeling that must have been really hard. But you needed it. It was what you needed on this journey.

Absolutely. And you know what? I was saying this. You know, I do my. We do our Desert Storm reunion every year, and it's, you know, been like 30 years or whatever. We were up at the Marine Corps Museum a year ago, and I. Someone said, thank you for your service. I said, hey, listen, I got way more out of it than I put. Put into it, you know, that I put in. I got way more out of it. And my commanding officer was standing. He's like, yeah, I know, Whit. Cause I was there. I was like, come on, Skipper. You know, come on.

Like, give me a break. I am crying because, you know, I know you hear it all the time, but thank you for everything you've done for us.

Oh, no, you know what? And I. It was all for selfish reasons, I'll tell you. And that's what people say. Thank you for your service. Like, listen, I did all this stuff. It's great that the country got some, you know, use out of me, but I joined the Marine Corps so I could get my own life in order. Right. And. And. And I did all those other things because I liked doing them, and if I didn't like doing them. We all do stuff for selfish reasons, right? I mean, and. But, yeah, it is a great career. Great.

I have to just say, you're about the 10th person in a row that makes me feel very humbled. Like, kind of like, what the hell am I doing with my time? That's how I feel, honestly. But I'm not asking for. You know.

But that's not true because, like, I just told you just now that you've been an influence in my own journey going into this coaching. Because coaching is a big piece of what I do as well, following you when I started. So you kind of, like, were a trailblazer for me. So you shouldn't feel like. Because you're doing great stuff.

Thank you. Thank you. I so appreciate it. All right, let's get into. Tell me why you wrote this book. This is about. Let's get the title right. 7 Secrets of Resilience for Parents, and then how that morphed into, you know, parents. Look at what you're doing every day. That Negatively impacts your kids. What made you go that direction where you could teach a thousand things? I think right now.

Yeah. And really the book isn't about parenting at all. It's about mental toughness. It's about resilience. Right. It's not even about raising your kids. It's about you navigating the stress of parenthood, which is the subtitle. Right. So that's the really the subtitle. Because, listen, kids are resilient. We all know that. But what happened to us when we grew up, right? We're a train wreck. We're a dumpster fire. By the time we become adults, we all have, you know, we all intrinsically have resilience, but we lose it along the way somewhere. So when I was teaching my corporate stuff, right, I'm teaching this, you know, mental toughness to corporate. People would come up to me after the audience, they're buying the ground zero leadership book. They're like, oh, this would help me so much at home. Could you write a, you know, a book about, you know, how to apply this, you know, with my kids and in my family? And I was like, it was so. It's a market driven thing, you know, so. And I did want to wait until, like, my two oldest boys are in the Citadel. One's 21, the other one's 18, and my little girl, she's 15. I wanted to wait until we had, you know, a track record. I didn't want to be like, yeah, and they're. All three of them are just phenomenal. I mean, I gotta tell you, Kathy, my greatest joy ever is just to sit back and watch them when they don't know I'm watching them, you know.

Isn'T that to have children who grow to be people that you learn from and you, you're pinching yourself that they're in your life?

Yeah.

What a blessing.

So, I mean, huge can. I can't say that enough. It's huge.

It's such a gift to us. How did you.

How.

You know, I spent a few years as a marriage and family therapist. And I have to say that training and experience, there are no words like, it turned me inside and out. And everything I thought about myself, about everything got exploded. And I think that's why I might be a very effective coach where other people's coaching falls short maybe sometimes. What made, you know, the stuff that you're teaching here about? How did you look at your own parenting and other people's parenting and come up with a framework?

Well, what's not in My bio. And I'll just share that I do have a PhD in theology. I actually pastored a church for five years. So all that therapy that you're talking about and family and marriage, I did it as a pastor. So. Yeah, so you could see all that kind of stuff. Like just our tracks are very similar, you and I.

When did the pastoring happen? How the heck old are you?

I'm 52. Right. I'm 52.

So this is possible, all this amazingness.

Well, what had happened was Nancy kind of suggested that I might should run for Congress. So I moved back to South Carolina in 2004, ran for Congress and lost. And then the natural progression, of course, is because of my, you know, background as a minister. I'm ordained minister. Was to just kind of roll. And there was a, there was a groundswell, if you will, to pastor a church. So I pastored a church for five years until like the economy went in the tank in 2008, 2009, and people lost their jobs and, you know, I just couldn't. It was hard for me to say, you know, give to the church so I could take a paycheck when you can't even. So I stopped taking a paycheck. My wife started waiting tables. I started working a security job at midnight. We did that for like a year. And then my wife said, how long we going to do this? And I'm like, well, I can fix it, but I got to go away. So once she said okay and green lighted me, then I was on the track with the State Department and off I was to Afghanistan within a few weeks for my first of four deployments to Afghanistan.

And I have to. Kudos to your wife. I don't know that a lot of wives would do that.

Well, she's a Marine Corps wife. You know, when we got married, I was, you know, Desert Storm, Republic of Panama, you know.

Oh, she kind of knew what the drill was.

Yeah, she.

Yeah, I see.

She's tougher than me. Listen, she's my mental toughness coach. Like, don't, don't be fooled that she's five three and 105 pounds soaking wet. Man, she'll way tougher than me. Oh my gosh, I love it.

All right, let's get into this. And listen, if you want to take this in another direction and we're not just talking about social media, we're going to go where? Sure. Wherever we go, spirit moves us. Yeah, but what are you seeing? I'm so glad to have a mouthpiece for this. What are you Seeing parents doing that is irrevocably damaging right now. What are you seeing?

What? We don't have time for all that. But I'm gonna say with the social media piece, okay, so listen, I know we, I know we're all proud of our kids and stuff, but our default mode should be everything is private until we vet it and decide that we should put it out there. Because once it's out there, Kathy, you know it's out there, it's never coming back. You can't get it back. You can't put the horse back in the barn. You can't put the bullet back in the gun. Once you share something on social media, it's out there. So I'm very aware of what I put in social media, especially with my kids. My kids, I'm still, I'm a selfish parent. I want to save all those moments for me and then some for grandma and grandpa, but it ain't for the whole world, you know, get your own kids, you know.

But don't you feel, let's just get to the heart of it. And you did in our interview that's going a little viral there on Forbes. It's funny how two posts I've done on parenting really are flying. And I think it's because leaders who read my Forbes stuff are parents. You know, not everyone, a lot of people are parents. But what I love that you said, and we learned it in therapy and I'm sure in therapy training and as a pastor, what you have to look at is why am I saying what I'm saying? Why am I sharing what I'm sharing? And what you just said, I have to say, you know, my kids are, this is private. This is for me, that's not what millions of parents are doing right now. They are getting, speaking of not resilient, they're, they're breaking that boundary of living vicariously through how beautiful their kid is, how smart their kid is, what college their kid is, whether the kid got in on its own or not. I mean, that's a whole other story. I don't want to jump on people who are, you know, in the news and going through hard times, but I have to say this, parents that cheat for their kids to get in, you are damaging them more than any great four year university that you cheated to get them in could ever give them. Do you agree with me?

Oh, it's the biggest insult to your kids. Because what I'm saying to my kids when I do that is I don't believe enough in you. For you to achieve on your own. So I've got to do it for you because you don't measure up. And it's like the worst rejection that any kid could ever feel.

And it, there's another layer to it, right? It's also okay, you can't get into usc, you're gonna go to the, you know, local community college. I can't bear that. Right. So yeah, right there, who you really are.

And that's really the crux of my book Seven secrets of Resilience. Here's the deal. The number one need of all human beings is acceptance. And the number one fear is rejection. If you haven't internally accepted yourself, I asked this question, can you give anybody anything you don't have? If I didn't have a hundred dollar bill, could I give you $100 bill? Kathy?

No.

And if I haven't accepted myself, then I cannot give that acceptance love to my kids. And the numbers on self esteem are phenomenal. I mean it's like for 85% of 2 year olds, which we all know they have healthy self esteem, 2 year olds don't judge you, they don't have a problem with themselves, they don't care.

If they come out of the womb not feeling good about ourselves.

But by the time age 15, it goes down to like 5% of 15 year olds have a healthy self esteem and then it does come back up from age 24 to the grave to 30%. So that means seven out of every 10 adults, seven out of every 10 parents, if we look at those numbers do not have a healthy self esteem. They haven't accepted themselves. They're looking for acceptance from others and they can't give that acceptance to their kids. And so that's why we're on social media, because I'm looking for validation from outside sources.

I want to say, oh yeah, as you say and I want that story about in a second. I want to say this. I know you, you are the same way because you just shared about yourself. I don't want to sit on a soapbox and say I'm perfect. You know, part of getting marriage and family therapy training, what it did for me is to show me if I keep going the way I am as a parent, a meshed all of it, right. It's going to mess everybody up. So, so you know, I'm so grateful for that training and not that I'm perfect, but you know what I mean. But I want to tell you when you look at these vanity metrics or the vanity things we put out about our kids. I remember when my first book ten years ago came out, I was obsessed about going on Amazon and refreshing the page to see how many. I mean, I was like, this is an addiction. I couldn't stop myself. And I look at having 900,000 followers on LinkedIn and yeah, I tossed that number around because it says something. But I think that it's, it's a rare individual who is not on, who is on social media and doesn't look at how many likes their new headshot got or how many. You know what I mean? Like even my kids on Instagram. Well, one kid in particular, if she puts up a picture and there aren't as many likes, she'll go, wow, people didn't really like that. So how do we balance the fact that social media encourages that addiction? I mean, if we didn't care about who liked us on social media, there would be no social media.

Well, yeah, and what it is, what social media did was just tap into this thing that's called, you know, the approval addiction. Right. And that's what, that's what. Because we get humans. When you haven't accepted yourself, you get addicted to the approval of others. And this. I was just in Greece last week and I was.

For fun.

Yeah. No, no, I was doing a CEO Clubs International forum. It was their 10th anniversary.

I love it.

Yeah. So I was there and we were talking. I was doing a one day seminar with like 30 of the top CEOs in Athens. And, and so, and so we're talking back and forth and I'm being pretty mental. It's, listen, it's mental toughness. It's not massage therapy. Okay? So they're like, so they said, you know what, you know, do you not care that people, you know, people get mad at you? I said, listen, I like it better when people like me. I really do. But if not, I'm getting on a plane on Friday, right? So, and here's the deal. If my kids and my wife, I'm good with them. I really don't care if anybody else approves of me or they accept me because the social media is a whipsaw. You'll. If you get likes, you feel good. And so you're on the up roller coaster. And then if you get, you know, you don't. Or there's like, listen, I have haters. We all have haters. I'm sure you do too, Kathy. I know that sounds crazy, but we do. And then, then I get upset because someone made nasty comments about me on social media. Well, if I don't need your approval, then I also don't get upset when you reject me.

That's a Buddhist philosophy. What is the term? Don't attach to the goodwill of others or, you know, the good opinion, not the goodwill, the good opinion of others. Because when you do that, then you're attaching to the negative too. You're attaching to all of it.

You get it? All right? So, and I think that's really a problem in our society is that we're on this emotional roller coaster of approval addiction. And this, look, this is what we know in neuroscience, that rejection is registered by the brain as physical pain. So when every time someone says something, you feel that rejection, there's physical pain. So it's like the hot stove thing, right? When you touch the hot stove, and then you did touch the hot. Now you'll never touch the hot stove again. So you draw back whenever you feel like you're about to touch the hot stove. So whenever you feel like you're about to get rejected, if you haven't accepted yourself, you will draw back and become defensive in your posture. And that's why conflicts happen.

Isn't that also a kind of a neurobiological construct as well? That first of all, we have a negativity bias in our brains. And that was, you know, there's a lion. But now we're looking at, you know, oh, you look ugly, you know, on Facebook as the lion, like we are, our primal brain is still very active, isn't it? Right.

And you train, right? You have to. Yes. And you have to retrain your brain. And so what. And this is what I. What do you feed on? Like, what shows are you watching? What are your friends? What are they saying? What, radio. And like, if you're feeding on your stuff, it's fantastic. But if you're feeding on like mainstream media and talk radio and TV shows where it's just drama and we hate each other and it's violence, if you feed on that, you subconsciously begin to pick up all those beliefs and then you act on them, it becomes a medical, self fulfilling prophecy. So I always ask people, well, what is it you're feeding on? You know, if you're living vicariously through your kids and you're, you're cheating to get them into college, like, why did you even think of that? Like, you know, and what made you think that it was okay?

And, you know, it just. That's what's very scary to me. I think that in some ways, I don't know why this is. But our integrity, our transparency, our honesty, it's all gone. You know, why did someone think to do that? Because I think the moral compass is a little off. What do you think?

Oh, absolutely. And that's, again, this is a huge thing and this is why. This is what's driving the suicide rates, not just amongst teenagers, veterans across the board. Suicide rates are going through the roof. And it's very troubling to me. But. And here's what it is. Because we don't have a purpose. That's why our moral compass is off, because we don't have a purpose. And if our purpose is just to look good. And that's the, that's the worst part of social media, is that we're all running a reality television show and we're playing a role and we're not playing ourselves, we're playing what we want to put out. So we're. It's all about crafting our brand and our reputation and what we. Right. So. But we don't have a purpose. If you had a purpose and you're focused on your purpose, you don't care whether you look good or not. You care about accomplishing your purpose.

You're right. You're 100% right. I'm so interested. We're going to talk about a little more about, you know, the rules for. What should I. What should I share, even verbally, you know, about my kids or about. There's this wonderful book, the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. And the very. It's about agreements, spiritual agreements with yourself about how to live a full, healthy, happy life. But the first one is be impeccable with your word. And he's looking at the root of impeccable. Not to sin against yourself or others with your word. I mean, if you just even listen in a coffee shop or on the train to how people talk about either themselves or their bosses or their colleagues, it's, you know, it's kind of poison. A little bit.

Kind of. It is. I mean, and that's what I. And that's what I do as a coach, right, is I'm gonna. I can listen to somebody literally now. I've been doing this long enough. Within 30 seconds, I'll know exactly what your mindset is based on the language that you use. But your self talk. And it just, it's just. You just. It's like a GPS pinging, bing, bing, bing. I'm over here, right? And this is where my. And it's. It is poison. And that's what I said. What you're feeding on. Because if you're listening to, like, if you're like, you driving to work in the morning and you're listening to whatever the DJs, and they're playing to that mindset. So I'm not mad at them because that's their audience. But it all be like, blue Monday, Wednesday is hump day. Tgif. Thank God it's Friday. Like, thank God it's Friday. Why would you ever try to speed through five days of your life just to get to the weekend and do nothing? Yeah, right. And when you say that, you're telling me you don't have a purpose. Like, I almost dislike the weekends because nobody answers their phones and it's hard for me to accomplish my purpose because everybody's doing nothing. Right? So I almost don't like weekends and holidays.

You know, my mother, when I was in miserable corporate life, you never had a period of being miserable, it seems you seemed like you were rocking it all. I had 18 years of misery, my mother would say, because we'd go on Caribbean vacations. My husband at the time and I, she would say, you know, you can't live for vacations. And I'd be so angry. But how true is that? Like, I'd parcel out how good I feel in the year. By the spring break, the summer break, the. I need. I need to ask a question. Andrew, this is not. This is off script. You know, you. I'm gonna say something here you strike me as. I don't want. I certainly don't want to say soft, but let me preface something. I interviewed a therapist, Terry, real couples therapist, who's best selling author, and he looks at how patriarchy, living in a patriarchal society messes us all up. But basically he says, in a patriarchal society, when we know very well what masculine is supposed to be, tough, invulnerable, gets things done right. And we know what feminine is. Soft, vulnerable, connected. Right. Weak. And obviously those aren't accurate, but that's how we feel. And he said, in a patriarchal society, we condemn the feminine. Both men and women condemn the feminine. If I were just to meet you, I would feel like you have a very well developed feminine side.

Yeah, my wife is my feminine side. And I try and get in touch with my feminine side as often as possible.

So when you. What I'm interested in is when you're teaching mental toughness to the Marines or to Navy seals, how. I'm fascinated in how you balance that. Can you be your softest, vulnerable self? As I See you now. Or do you have to have a different Persona so that these CEOs in Greece can see? I mean, do you.

No, I'm just me. Yeah. No, I'm just me. It's just easier to live that way.

Do you know what I mean? When.

I know. And that's what they said in Greece. They actually said that in Greece, that they were all shocked that because of my bio and then I'm an American, that I came over there and was, I don't know, say, soft, but that I was, like, funny and kind of a goofball and not a tough guy. Yeah. All that invulnerable. I'm not. Right. But this is because I've accepted myself, and this is the reason that. That I have to be tough and disconnected. It's because you haven't accepted yourself and you're looking for validation. So I'm gonna act like how I think people want me to act. Right? Because now. Because I'm looking for their validation, I always try to, like thinking like General MacArthur. Like, I imagine. Like, can you imagine General MacArthur in World War II walking down a line of troops and he just stops and slaps one private on the back and says, good job. You're doing great. Like, how would that guy feel? Right. He's validating that guy. Does General MacArthur care if the privates like him or not? Does he care if his generals even like him or not? He didn't even care if Harry Truman liked him or not. Right. So I'm going to be the validator and not looking for validation. And especially so, as a parent, I'm always going to validate my kids. They're safe with me. You can be you here. I'm not going to put up with bad behavior, but you are 100% safe. There's no performance stipulation on my love.

See, that's. That's. And I want people to walk away with a lot of practical tips. What you just said, I think, is the essence. I studied narcissism and emotional manipulation and what that does to kids, and you just said it. If I put a measuring stick on what you have to do for me to love you and accept you, you're going to screw up your kids big time, forever, unless they get therapy and a lot of help. But what you just said is what parents think they're communicating. Like, they say, I love you, but they withhold the love when lots of different things happen when you're challenging me. Like, narcissists tend not to be Challengable So if a kid, you know, I kind of went through this when, you know, I don't really agree. Holy cow. The love gets withholded. Withheld, Withhold, withheld. So how we're gonna give people tips on how to do this? It's. Oh, do you get this question? A lot of people say to me, I don't understand this unconditional love thing, that my kids are going to be running around like crazy banshees. If I do that, they mistake discipline or boundaries or guidelines. They mistake. I'm not saying have no boundaries.

No, the opposite. Listen, got very clear boundaries. And if you love them, you will give them clear boundaries. Like I use the example, right? All the other kids, moms and dads are letting them play in the street. You're not being. You don't love me because you're not letting me play in the street. Well, I do love you. And you're playing in the backyard, not in the street. Hate me on the back end when you didn't get run over by a car. This is simple. We already know this stuff. And it just. And here's really what happened. And this is the practical tip. I call this being CEO of you. Right? Being the CEO of you means that you. Your job is to get your board of directors to act in concert for your betterment. And we all know our board of directors as our body, mind, and emotions. And I asked this question. When you have a boardroom meeting with yourself, who usually wins the vote? Body, mind, or emotions?

Emotions.

Right, Right. And how's that working out?

That's a train wreck.

Not too good. Right? So who should be running the boardroom is the mind. So then I begin to teach thinking the same way that we teach somebody how to swing a golf club or drive a car.

Tell us. Tell me. Give me a lesson here. If someone says, how do I get in control of my emotions and how do I accept myself? Tell us.

Yes, so what? I want the mind to be running the boardroom. So here's the four levels of thinking that every human on a human any day. This is where either on autopilot. Just like when you're driving the car home from work, you don't even remember getting off in your exit or stopping at the stop. But you're just. You're just. The body is driving the car. Autopilot. Then there's the negative thinker, which says, you know, if I cross the street, I know a hundred people across the street, but I'll be the one person if I set foot in the Street, I'll get run over. Right. The emotions are running the boardroom. Then there's the positive thinker, which, listen, I hate positive thinking because the positive thinker says, listen, I can lay down in the highway, cars will swerve around me or they stop. Nothing will ever happen to me. I could literally lay down in the interstate. Well, that's crazy. But that's also the emotions running the boardroom. So we want the mind to run the boardroom. We have to be a critical thinker. And so I took the Socratic method, which is like nine steps, totally unwieldy. You can't use it in real time. And I came up with the four best, the four top steps that would get us 90% of the way there. And I use these four steps, and I train that as a physical skill. And I call it buckle up thinking like crap. C, R, A, P, so that you won't forget it. Okay? The C is clarity, the R is relevance, The A is accuracy, and the P is precision. Now, the critical thinker, if you want the mind running the boardroom, this is great for parents and great for. And I put this in the article, I think, in our interview. Right, I think you put it in. But the first thing that I need to do is clearly define what's my target. What is it that I'm trying to accomplish here? What is it that I'm going for? Not what I don't want, but what do I do want? What do I want to happen? That's the very first thing of getting your mind to run the boardroom.

Can I stop you there for a minute?

Yeah, yeah. Let me take a breath.

Let me take a sip. I think that what's happened, and it goes back to your corollary of I don't accept myself. If parents were really. And everyone. Leaders were really honest with themselves, what do I really want? If they're really honest, it isn't healthy. Well, functioning kids. It's kids that are going to make me look good.

Shame. But you're absolutely. Yeah. Their behavior belays that. Right.

I mean, I think they're really not stopping and saying, I want healthy, functioning kids who, like. I have one friend whose son is a tattoo artist, and she rolls her eyes every time she says it. She's so disdainful.

Wow. And here's the acceptance problem. Right? So. And this is. Listen. This is really what's wrong with our society is that we're running around judging other people. And listen. And when someone judges somebody else or rolls or like, those kind of things, that you just said they're disdainful, they roll their eyes, they're shameful. About what? Listen, what you do for a living is not who you are. Okay. And if you attach that, then that tells me that that's an external label that you're putting on yourself. You haven't accepted yourself, and you've got serious self esteem issues if you're judging somebody else for what they do.

Can I almost. Can I make a caveat?

Sure.

I always ask people, what do you do? And a lot of people don't like that because they don't actually like. But because I'm a career coach, I do think that what you do with your time and often how you negotiate your value for money is very telling about who you are. It may not be where you want to end up. Like, you know, I, I'm a tattoo artist and don't want to be a tattoo artist, but I do think that what people commit to spending their time doing for a living is very telling. Do you not?

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I see, I teach, I coach all my clients to come up with an identity statement, an internal identity of who you are, no matter what role you're playing. Because people will be like, wow, I'm a cop. Well, you know what? 80% of cops die within three years of retirement. Why? Because all that Waffle House, free Waffle House food we're eating? No, because we lost the badge and the gun and that was our identity. Right. Football coaches, senators, what percent die after three years? It's about 80% either have a heart attack or die within three years of retirement. Every law enforcement officer knows it. We're very familiar with the stats. That's why a lot of them, after they retire, they immediately get another job in security or, you know, the sheriff's office somewhere else doing the same thing.

Wow.

Because that's our identity is the badge and the gun. It's like people say, well, I'm a Navy seal. I'm the EVP of whatever. Yeah. Who are you when you're not that? Or even when people say I'm a mom or I'm a dad, I kind of cringe because when the kids are out of the house. Now what? Now there's going to be a tough transition period. So, like, for me, my identity statement is I'm a man of excellence who always keeps his word. So no matter whether my dad, the CEO of my company, I'm coaching little League, I'm a parent in the sideline watching my kids play, I'M a man of excellence who always keeps his word. That's who I am. It will never run out till I get to the grave.

I love it. I get it. All right, I cut you off. Where were we?

The id.

Oh, yeah. Thinking like crap. Go ahead.

Yeah. So then the R is relevance, right? So what's the target? So I teach this as a golf swing, right? For the golfer, the target is the hole. Then I ask, are the sand traps and the water obstacles relevant? And people like, oh, yeah. Well, no, because if you say, don't hit it in the water, where's the ball going?

Right?

Because that's what neuroscience. If you say don't, and then anything after the don't becomes the new target.

So give. Give me a practical thing for parents about how to think of relevance.

Oh, this is great. So my oldest is a rule follower. And my young. My middle son. My youngest son, he's the middle child. He doesn't really care about consequences that much. So if the oldest, like, comes in five minutes late, which was, like, you know, from his curfew, that would just be unheard of. This is back when they were in high school. If he came in late, I wouldn't even say anything about it because I know there's. He's got a legit reason. He's such a rule follower that he's probably. He's doing me a culpas, you know, I'm sorry. I'm five minutes late. I'm like, hey, man, don't swipe. It's okay. The other one will be, like, 15 minutes late. Just to push the boundary, you know, on a regular. Be like, well, it's just 15 minutes, you know, like, dude, where were you? He's like, and here's not relevant. Dude, you. You came in late last night, right? Well, you never say anything to Drew when he comes in late, right? That's not relevant. We're talking about you relevant to him.

He's like, why are you coming down on me?

Right? It's not relevant to him.

Has nothing to do with what the situation at hand, right?

And this happens all the time. And, like, say you're at the family dinner table, somebody, you know, and you're, you know, trying to get, you know, a vacation planned, and then we're arguing over who ate the last bowl of cereal. Not relevant to what we're trying to accomplish here, right? Or get the chores done or, you know, any of these.

Is that similar to. My dad used to say, let's not talk about the past. Is that similar to we're trying to plan a vacation and someone's going on the cheap and someone wants to go excursion, you know, And. And so someone says. The wife says, you are always.

Yeah, that's. That's the next thing, which is accuracy, which is what's the difference between fact and truth? See, facts and truth are two different things. When she says always, that's a truth. That is not a fact. That's her perception that nothing is ever, always or never. Right. So I always, like when I was in law enforcement, what got entered into evidence was facts. But the witnesses swore to tell the truth. And we know that facts and evidence is way more reliable than witnesses. So there's a huge difference between facts and truth. Right. So when people. I only as a parent, I moved things from truth to the fact column. Like, you know, they'll come home and they're crying like, what's wrong? Nothing. Well, that's a truth. So what's the facts of nothing? Right. Well, everything. You know, any of these things are truths. So I want to take those truths, you know, so. And so is being a jerk to me. Well, that's a truth. Tell me the facts of the behavior that caused you to come to that conclusion.

Wow, this is great. So helpful.

Right? So. And then I see now I'm taking the emotion out of it. So the truth is the emotion of whatever my perception is when I say the facts. This is great for parents, too, because you'd be like, stop disrespecting me. Well, that's a truth. What are the facts of the behavior that caused you to say they're disrespecting? Well, they put their hand on their hip and they rolled their eyes. Okay. Could that be taken any other way than disrespect?

Right. Maybe they're an introvert and they can't think of an answer right at that moment.

Right. See, that's what exactly.

In therapy training, we lear every behavior makes sense when you understand the context. I feel like that's a little. But what you're getting at.

Yeah, I'm going to give people the free. Listen, I like people not judging me. I like it when. When people don't judge me and I have my truth and my opinion, I'm going to allow others the same thing. Have you ever said anything you wish you didn't say, or is it just me, Kat?

How about, like every other day? What do you say?

I'm always going to give somebody the free pass because I like it when they're gracious with me. So I want to be gracious with other people. Same with my kids. I didn't like it when my dad was not gracious with me. So I, I don't. I remember that, you know, and so I'm going to be gracious with that.

And what I'm also getting at by the context thing is we might be looking at a behavior going that is just not acceptable. But if we understood the full context of where that was coming from, we would have a different Knee Jerk reaction.

100%.

Right?

Yeah. And I call that cultural health. Right. Listen, yelling at each other in New Jersey, totally fine in South Carolina, you know, we're all like, yes, sir and yes, ma'. Am. Right. But that's cultural. That has nothing, you know, and you.

Switch cultures, be like, it's really true.

Yeah. And then the last thing is the p. Is precision. Can this fact be more exact? Right, so here's an example of, you know, we got to have this done by Friday. Friday is a fact. But that's a big block of time. Well, when on Friday? All right, I need it by 11:00am Eastern Time. See, that's a precise fact. So now I've drilled down. Now this is great with kids because if you say if you don't give them a precise fact, they're gonna find the loophole and get away with.

You said Friday. You didn't mean this month. You know?

Yeah. All right, I'll get it to you in a few. Here's another one. Oh, yeah, dad, I'll get that done in a few.

A few what?

Right, Years. Like decades. What are we talking about here? Like, exactly when are you gonna get your room clean? Like, give me a dead, like a date and time. And I want the time zone too, so that I pin this down. We all agree to it, right? So when you do all that, it takes all that, you know, the shenanigans that you don't want. Because, listen, I like shenanigans. I like goofing off with my kids, right? But they're not the ones, you know, not the bad shenanigans.

No, not the bad ones. Yeah, that's truth, not fact. All right, now let me ask you one thing. The heart of this is acceptance. Accepting of them, accepting of other human spirits. This is probably your path pastoral work that really informs this. But if parents are listening and if they're really honest with themselves, they might say, the piece I can't get to is really accepting myself. And, you know, I work, I call it perfectionistic over functioning more than is appropriate, necessary and healthy and trying to get an A in all of it. Why? Because you're driven by a fear that you're not good enough. That that's why we're doing, period. Otherwise you're not a perfectionist and otherwise you're not overdoing. And in a couple, if you're over functioning, then one of them has to under function. You can't have two over functioners.

No, you're not in the same space. Right, right.

So how give, give parents everyone a tip, even your leaders. How do you accept yourself? How'd you learn how to do that?

Well, this is, this is what I do. I go, I go. This is the homework I give them. I gave it to him in Greece too. I said I won't be, I won't be back to find out for a while because I'm not coming back till next July. So you guys have some time, but go home and look in the mirror and just love you accept yourself, flaws and all. Because this is what we do when we look in the mirror, Kathy, is we look at all the stuff we don't like, right? So I mean, I do the same thing and I work on this. This is the thing. Mental and emotional work, or even I'll call it spiritual work, is harder than physical work.

So much harder.

Okay? So every day, every day, every day I'm going to reaffirm my acceptance of myself. Listen, welcome to planet Earth. We all have stuff we don't like about ourselves, okay? I'm looking for eye cream with retinol because I don't like the wrinkles in my eyes, okay? I don't like that my hair is turned. Yeah, see, it works.

Give me the brand later, please.

Right? Offline. No, but see, this is the stuff. Whenever we look at. And look, I was the fat kid and I still every day see a fat kid in the mirror. I struggle with that every single day, right? And I'm, I'm a fit nut. I mean, my wife tells me I'm, you know, you're like a freak of nature. I do intermittent fasting. I only eat one meal a day, right? I eat all my calories between 4 and 8. Like that's my window. And then I sit down and I'll eat like for 15 minutes or 20 minutes, eat my calories. I work out six days a week. I'm like a fitness nut and still look in the mirror and have to fight that thought of you're still a fat kid so you got to work on it. Like it's not going to Just boom, poof, you know, pixie dust. It's good. So you got to commit to like loving yourself every single day and then you can go love your kids every single day.

Oh, I love it. You know, my therapist, when I was in spiritual psychotherapy years ago, he said, I'd like you to look in the mirror and say, I thoroughly love and accept myself. And I went, yeah, sure. I went and do it. Andrew did it. I like coughed up a hairball. I'm like, wait, let me say it again. I literally. And so everybody try it. I literally experience the self hatred and self rejection.

Sure.

And I kept doing it and I was like, this is ridiculous. I don't thoroughly love and accept myself. But I finally got to the point where I didn't have an allergic reaction that I went, oh, wait a minute, maybe I do. But I think just so we over. Don't oversimplify, I think for many people who've had childhoods that taught them not to love and accept themselves, you know. Do you know this quote? I use it constantly. Einstein said, you cannot solve a problem on the level consciousness. Consciousness that created it. So if you use it, if you can't love and accept yourself, don't beat yourself up. But there probably is some trauma that you can't. You're not releasing on your own. And that's why we have outside help 100%. Right?

Absolutely. And the first thing is like awareness. Right. That's the key, is like not denial. The first thing is coming to grips. What I call an honest assessment. If you can make an honest assessment and look at yourself hard in the mirror and say, here's the stuff I don't like about me. But see, I want, and this is what I would like your listeners to understand. There's a difference between liking and loving. You can love somebody without liking them. I'm related to a lot of those folks.

That's really true.

Yeah. So I would get over yourself. Like, there's stuff about myself even today I don't like, but I make course corrections. That doesn't mean I don't love me. And make. No. And again, let me give you the neuroscience behind this, because it's not oversimplification. There's a little piece in our book, you know, bottom of the brainstem, called the ras, the reticular activating system. That little piece, it regulates our sleep and our wakefulness and where we put our focus. But the beauty of this little thing is that it doesn't know the difference between real events or synthetic events. So like when you're dreaming, that's your RAs, you're dreaming, it feels completely real. Even though you're bending the law of physics at that time, for you, it's 100% real. So when you tell yourself, I love me, I love, this is the truth, right? I'm going to keep telling myself that I love me, I love me, I love me. And that's why originally it was a hairball. You keep telling the ras that and you program the ras. It doesn't know the difference between what's fact and what's not fact. Eventually it will take on that message that you give it and start to believe it, whether it's real in reality or not. So even if it doesn't feel like this is what I coach on my clients. Listen, you're going to say your identity statement. That's the first thing we craft, and you're going to say it over and over again. So when you stub your toe, you're not going to say, ouch. You're going to say, I'm a man of excellence. Always work, right? And so that I'm going to build that self talk over and over again. And I'm going to use the brain and the neuroscience to my advantage so that I'm. And this is what I break this down so that. Listen, you don't have to believe me. Just do what I'm telling you and it's going to work. It's no different than less calories and more exercise. You're going to lose weight. It's. This is just work with me on this, right? So it's not an oversimplification, but you don't even have to think about it. I will take care of all that. I give you the science and just do the process.

Well, I feel like I'm in good hands with you. I would be like, oh, good, he's giving me something that's going to work. I don't need to know why, right?

You don't. I'll tell you why. But, yeah, but I. Trust me on this. You don't have to believe it. Your belief is not necessary. If you believe in me enough to do what I'm telling you to do, then you're going to get results.

I love it. I'm aware of our time, but I have to ask you one other. Could you have time for this?

I do have time. I got. I blocked off all. I'm so excited to be with you. It's all the time that I did. You want. I'm for you. I'm here.

Thank you. So you and I were talking about how we think leadership and parenting is very similar. Of course, there are differences, people. But I have to tell you, I interviewed the amazing guy Kawasaki, you know, Silicon Valley guru, right? And in email, and he said, no, I don't think they're similar at all. Shut it right down. I would love to hear how you think they are similar leadership. And you've led kind of the highest people who need intense resilience and strength. How do you feel that is similar? Leading people in those situations and leading and being and parenting.

Right. So. Right. So the definition, I'm. I'm like, you know, I know I'm recovering ocd. I know that shocks you, but I'm obsessed with, like, language and what words mean. So I heard the great leadership guru John Maxwell say that leadership is influenced, nothing more, nothing less, one time. And I'm like, what? Come on, man. There's got to be more to it than that. So I started, like, studying the root of the word and everything. It comes out of the old English. It derives from the word craftsmanship, which is the. It's. And it means this skill, like a blacksmith or a carpenter in influencing direction, course of action, attitudes and opinions. So let me say it again. It is skill, like a blacksmith, a craftsman, in influencing direction, course of action, attitudes and opinions. Now, that's the definition of leadership. That's a fact. That's the definition. I would defy anybody. I don't care who. You are right to say that parenting is not skill in influencing direction, course of action, attitudes and opinions of your kids.

There you go.

Boom. There you go. It's the exact same thing. I mean, it's 100% the same thing, and that's factual.

And, you know, if we wanted to dimensionalize it more, if I'm a great leader, I have a vision, which is your identity statement. I have a vision for where I'm going, a vision where we're going. Number two, I want you to be the best you can be and leverage everything you are towards that vision. Number three, I believe in you like I believe in me. And you're gonna see that more than you're gonna see me not believing in you.

Right.

I'm going to look with precision at what I'm saying, and I'm gonna look at my. I mean, it's the same damn thing.

Right? Right. So now management is completely different. Now, if he was thinking leadership and management, because management is. I run the trains on time. Right. I'm not influencing anything. I'M not asking anybody their opinion. I don't care what their attitude is. The train is running like, did you imagine the conductor going to ask, like the passengers? What do you think about the schedule? This is what parents do with like a 2 year old. Like when they're young, they're your management, okay. Until they're in middle school and they can begin to think critically, you can't be trying to influence them and logically explain stuff to a four year old. Okay? Just manage the schedule. And when they begin like 12 years old and around that time and their brains begin to develop enough to have those, you know, cognitive, critical, executive functioning skills, then you can begin leadership. So in that respect, I guess when they're little, it's management.

Although I'm going to say I do think that we force management and leadership a little too far apart. You're a sh. I'm going to get bleeped out. You're a shitty manager if you're not leading in any way.

Oh, I'm 100% right.

I mean.

Oh, no, you're right. Yeah. No, you're right.

Separate them. Too far, I think.

Yes, I concur. Can I say concur? That's a good word.

Good word. Now tell us the booyah story. Then I'm gonna let you go in, but you have to tell us where we can learn more about everything you're doing.

Sure.

At your books and all of it.

So, okay, so, you know, I'm a Marine, and the Marines say their motivational chant is ooh rah or. Right. And the army is like, huah. And then the Navy has theirs. Everybody has a different one. Right?

So I don't know anything about this. Do you actually say those words like, together? There's a chant?

Well, it's like, you know, it's like when you're like doing something hard and you're like, you know. You know who. Yeah, it's a motivational chant, right. To get you pumped up. So I'm Senator Lieberman's detail. I'm Joe Lieberman's lead advance right after 9 11. And he's on the Armed Services Committee, right? And so he always wants. He's like, andrew, I want you to pump me up, you know, every time, you know, I need. We need. And I was like, well, I could say ooh ra. But you list your Armed Services Committee. I don't want to use the Marine Corps one. I don't want to use the arm. Let's make up one, right? So that it's like covers Everybody, Nobody gets offended, but it's just you and me. We know what it is. So we're just going to go with Booyah. He's like, I love that. So booyah. He's booyah. Booyah. Right. And, you know, we're, you know. And he would get all pumped up wherever he's going to do a speech or whatever it is. Booyah. Booyah. So then we were up at CNBC and we met Jim Cramer. And then we're booyah and booyah. And then the next thing I know, I see on his show booyah on the street sign Buddha is.

So it's a common thing. You made it up.

Well, I'd never heard of it before. Neither did the senator. So I'm. So we started yelling at each other.

There you go. You are a man ahead of his time in every possible way.

Yeah, I don't know. That's my story. That's my truth. So I'm gonna stick with my truth. Right.

You made it up. Oh, my gosh. Now tell us, Andrew, where can people read about you? Tell us everything.

Yeah, you get. My main website is get warrior tough, getwarriortough.com. that's where, you know all my. Our main stuff is I have a website for the parenting book, which is Andrew Whitman Witt T M A N dot com.

Great. We'll list all that below.

Yeah. And then the thing that I'm working on right now is for what we call. It's an app that's perpetual resilience. Because I can't coach everybody that wants coaching. And I micro slide. What I did is I took like a resilience workout of the day. So you just get a little tool. It's on. It's called innerarmor Us. Right. So innerarmor Us is the resilience app. Now there's one there for the. I'm developing it for the Marine Corps, for the entire Marine Corps right now. I have one up there for veterans and for law enforcement. There's also a version for individuals, and that's called my inner armor. So if you just want to be a better parent, a better leader, a better person, you want to deal with stress better. You know, microso, there's like a three minute video, a couple critical thinking questions, and then like within eight minutes, you know, a day, maybe three days a week, and you can work on reprogramming how you respond.

I'm getting choked up. I can can not even hear your words. Just because I know this sounds like I'm blowing smoke. I Don't mean to, but we so need your messages. And we so need them in the packaging that you are. Do you know what I mean when I say that?

Kinda, I mean, it's like, don't shoot the messenger. Right? So I'm like that kind of thing.

What I mean is you're clearly an embodiment of mental resilience and strength, yet there's a vulnerability and an accessibility that I. I'm guessing is not seen enough in some of the circles that you work with. Would you agree with that?

Yes. Yeah, I'm kind of a freak of nature. Yeah, that's what my wife calls me.

But yeah, I mean, in the most beautiful way. And you are a model of that blending of the masculine and feminine that we so need.

Well, you're so sweet. I appreciate that. And I work on it. I mean, you know, I didn't used to be this way, really. My wife is the one that helped me. I was 24 years old. We were brand new. You know, we weds, and I was a sergeant in the Marine Corps infantry. And I would come home talking to her like I was, you know, talking to my Marines. And she said, listen, I'm not one of your Marines. You're not going to talk to me like that. I have a cast iron skillet. You have to go to sleep sometime and I will use it. And I believed her and I wanted to be with her. So I began, you know, I began fixing my issues.

Well, we thank her too. Thank you for being here. I learned so much. Can't wait to dig in even more. And thank you for being on my list, which I can't believe I never even knew till this minute.

You go check. I just got one like a week ago. I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, this is so great.

Thank you for your time.

Thanks for having me.

I really feel this is going to help you. I hope you can find brave, which is every message that Andrew is sharing. And the bravery is to love yourself in the. In the full view of all your foibles, flaws, warts. We're not talking about that. We're talking about love it. Love it all down to your core. And then you will be a better parent, better leader, better manager, and a happier person. Thank you, everyone. I hope you loved it. Let us know wherever you find this. Give us a comment. We live for these comments, don't we, Andrew? We want to know how you took this in, how it might have changed your parenting, how you're thinking crap now. Whatever you can share. We'd love it. All right, everyone, have a fantastic week. And Andrew, come back again, I hope.

Will do. Anytime.

Thank you so much. Goodbye, everybody. See you next time.