Finding Brave Ep. 167: Living The Confidence Code, with Katty Kay and Claire Shipman

Hello, Kathy Caprino here and I'm so excited to share that my amazing career project 16 week online course is now open for enrollment. And if you act fast before March 25, there are some really great early bird bonuses, including $500 off the price and five other great gifts that'll move you forward. So this course is 16 weeks that teach the most essential steps that women need to take to build amazing, rewarding, happy careers they love. I've been through, as you know, if you follow my work a lot in the years that I've been working and I didn't know this information when I was in my 18 year corporate career and it really showed because I struggled in so many ways. So I teach in this course everything I've learned in reinventing my own career and working with thousands of women around the world to help them build happier, more joyful and fulfilling and impactful careers and professional lives they love. So there's 16 weeks of video homework assignments, calls with me, 90 minute calls with me, an incredible Facebook group of wonderful support, and so, so much more. So I hope to see you again register as an early bird before March 25. The course starts April 5 and I can't wait to work with you this spring and help you build a career that you will love and be proud of. See you there. Hey, welcome to another episode of Finding Brave. Kathy Caprino here. I want to tell you that you hear this a lot from me, I think, but one of the most joyful things about doing this podcast is connecting with people who are doing sex. Such inspiring, important work. But on top of it, in this case, you two have been so influential in my own work, you have helped in terms of the confidence code work you've done. You've helped give research to, you know, actual factual data to what we all know has been going on in terms of how girls go underground and how I think Caddy, was it you? I heard you say girls at a certain age lose a third of their confidence. You have helped us not just talk anecdotally about what we know we're facing, but you've given it hard research and factual background and I'm so grateful, so grateful to have you here.

Everyone.

We have Caddy K. And Claire Shipman. So again, thank you for because you are hot on a book release tour. A book tour. And so thank you for taking the time everyone. We are talking about living the confidence code today and your latest book and how I am sure your knowledge and understanding of confidence has shifted as you have done this over the years I cannot wait to hear. But before we dive in with all my questions and it is going to be hard to shut me up, clearly I want to read your bios and obviously that could take 30 minutes. You are, you got a lot going on. But I'm just going to give you all a little taste of Claire and Katti. Katti K. And Claire Shipman, along with Jill Ellen Riley, are the best selling authors of the Confidence Code for Girls and the Confidence Code for Girls Journal. Caddy and Claire, longtime friends, have been writing books together for over a decade. They've also co written the New York Times bestseller sellers Womenomics and the Confidence Code, which was so influential to me when I started out as a career coach, I've got to say. And your new book is Living the Confidence Code, which we're going to dig into now. Caddy is the anchor of BBC World News America based in Washington, D.C. also a frequent contributor to Meet the Press and Morning Joe and a regular guest host for the Diane Rehm show on npr. In addition to working on women's issues, Cad covered the Clinton administration sex scandal, four presidential elections, the wars in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq. And I didn't know this till I read this. You were at the Pentagon just 20 minutes after it was hijacked and some of the most memorable journalistic experiences you have. Right. Were interviewing soldiers still shaken from that. Oh, dear. Wow. And Claire. Claire's a journalist, author, public speaker. Before turning to writing, Claire spent almost three decades as an award winning television journalist. For the last 14 years, Claire was a regular contributor to Good Morning America and other national broadcasts for ABC News. Before that, good grief. Served as a White House correspondent for NBC News, where you regularly reported on presidential policy and politics for NBC Nightly and today. All right, there we go. Too bad you're not too busy. Sorry about that. All right, ladies, I want to dig into Living the Confidence Code, your new book, but can I ask a question that I'm dying to know? With all this that you have done, what made you say we have to understand deeper the issue of confidence in women? I know how I got to it, which is coaching thousands of women around the world asking why am I seeing the same problems over and over, no matter what socioeconomic level, education level, no matter what field? What got you into? What was that first conversation, you know, like, hey, I think we have a problem here. Let's do something about it.

When we wrote, when we finished Womenomics, actually, Kathy, we were both struck by something we picked up much in the same way you're talking about. We had interviewed so many women about women at work, the economics of it, decisions they were making. But this theme kept coming up where we hear women say, you know, off the cuff, well, I'm supposed to get a promotion, but I don't think I'm ready. Or I mean, women, we would look at and think what you know, and we, caddy and I would always joke because we'd say, well, we know we could never do that kind of thing, but those women seem really qualified and confident. And so it just, we realized as we were sitting around thinking in the aftermath of that first book that we really think there's something here. And then when we started to dig into it and we started to see some of the data, we realized there really is a gap and it's worth writing about.

You know, women would often say to us, oh, well, I'm lucky to be where I am, or I was in the right place at the right time. And we just never heard men say that.

Right.

Men don't attribute their success to luck generally. And so then we were thinking, well, maybe there is this thing about confidence that here, these super competent women, it's not that women don't lack competence, they are super qualified, and yet they seem to undervalue their abilities. And the more we looked into it, the social science, the neuroscience, the more we interviewed academics about this, we realized there really was a big. Not so much when it comes to our personal lives, but when it came to our professional lives, at least this big gap between men and women. And then we started thinking when we were writing the confidence code for women, it became so clear to us from all of the sociologists and psychologists and neuroscientists that we talked to that really the problem began much, much earlier than in adulthood. It began around middle school. And so that's what led us to our new work and all of the work that we're doing at the moment on girls.

Oh, I love it. Question for you. Well, two things I want to talk about. Caddy. I've heard you mention, I'm sure Claire, you too. Perfectionism.

So I've.

I was a former marriage and family therapist before, you know, after corporate, then before this. And we would talk about the dynamic of perfectionistic over functioning where or simply over functioning where in a marriage or a partnership, one would over function, meaning the other was going to under function. What I've seen with women is there is a perfectionistic piece to that. So we're doing more than is healthy, appropriate, necessary, and we're Trying to get an A plus in all of it. Do you see that? That's a large. EVERYONE LAUGHS Everyone. You know, when I say to my client, you're a perfectionistic over functioner, they laugh because it's almost every high achieving woman I've ever met and probably everyone else. Do you see that as a real theme in the confidence work you're doing?

Katie, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, we definitely. So one of the studies we did very early on in the work we did on confidence was men and women were given what's called a spatial aware test and they had to solve a whole load of puzzles. And the women did less. Well, this academic in Italy told us, than the men. And he went back over these puzzles and he found that what was happening is the women were skipping the questions more often than the men. And we said to this guy, well, why are they skipping the questions on this spatial awareness test when they know it's going to give them a lower score? And he said something really interesting. He said, they don't want to risk getting the answers wrong. They would rather skip the questions than get the answers wrong. In other words, they wanted to be perfect.

Did he know that? Did he understand that or did you?

No, he was the one that put us on that track. Then we did the research and women are 25% more prone to perfectionism than men and girls are really prone to perfectionism. And some of the confidence gap. Kathy, you were speaking earlier. That girls suffer between the ages of about 8 and 13 is to do with an onset of a perfectionistic tendency.

Right.

So they, they never want to fail. They don't want to take risks. They want to be perfect. And of course, it's an impossible standard. You're never going to get there. Give it up. Because no one is perfect. Robots might be perfect. It's a really annoying flaw in the human species that we aren't. We screw up. We all do.

Tell me this. You know, my world is. Is helping women take action unlike any other action they've ever taken. Brave action that builds confidence. My belief is we're not born, we don't come out of the chute with confidence, any of us. It's built. That's my belief. But what would you say? Well, I have to ask this question. Do you see neurobiological differences that contribute to this tendency or is it all cultural and societal and social because we.

Got obsessed with this.

I'm so glad with the science part of the, of the book. But, and this is the book for women, but it really also pertains to girls. There is biology to this. And in fact, you're, you're. There is evidence that some people do come out of this chute more confident than others.

Right out of the gate, day one.

The gate kind of. That really bummed us out because.

No, I have to revise something in my book.

I think it's going to be. But what we. But it is true that. So some people have different genetics that make them more pro, slightly more resilient, really. Right. And it's almost the flip side of like the genes you see or the, you know, the hormones that influence sort of anxiety and depression. Some people are just more, you know, able to shrug things off than others. But you're right in that the way we amass confidence once we're here is by failing and risking. But there's also a biological difference between men and women and in our brains. And testosterone has something to do with it. Testosterone is a real boost for risk taking. Women are more cautious. I mean, and that's an asset, Right. Our caution is an asset. But when it comes to being cautious about our own abilities. Right. Or not taking a risk in our profession, we just need to recognize that we tend to be more risk averse and therefore we often need to. I just tell so many women, anytime you tell yourself you're not prepared, you're wrong. I mean, it's that simple. And it really almost is. I mean, because we're always telling ourselves we're not prepared, but it's, you know, estrogen affects us differently. We have a different part of our brain that's a little bigger. That's sort of the worrywart center where we look out and see. We can sort of see all of the potential problems. Like, who needs that?

I don't know. We have a negativity bias our brains. But women, I think, have more of it, right?

Yeah. But the good news is that that's only a part of it. Right. So when Claire and I decided actually to do our own genetic profiling to test for the genes that predispose you genetically either towards confidence on the one side or anxiety on the other, and we did this genetic testing and we tested for three different genes that regulate the hormones dopamine, serotonin and oxytoci. And both of us came out pretty low. I mean, we do not have a good genetic set of cards when it comes to confidence. Actually, when we did that testing, we decided that was too depressing. We almost didn't put it in the book.

No, it's inspiring.

Actually, it's because it's like 25 to 40% is what you're dealt when you're born. The rest is what you choose to do. It's what psychologists call volitional. And it's all those choices you make every day about how to grow your confidence. And Claire and I have become confident women through, through the choices and the risks that we've taken and the hurdles we've overcome and keeping going at things and mastering things. And that's how you do it. The vast majority of your confidence is in your hands. It's what you choose to do right now.

And wouldn't you also say, and then we're going to get to your book? It's also mindset. What I see with people who struggle with confidence and resilience is what, when there's a failure, they go to the loser place. I am not enough. I am not worthy. C. Whereas someone who has a tendency to build more confidence doesn't look at it like that.

Oh, my God, there's a great. This reminds me, do you remember the study we did with Dave Dunning's study, Claire, on women who were doing PhD math? So he, this psychologist academic, realized he was picking up on what yours is talking about, Kathy. So he did a survey of students who were doing a PhD math program. And what he found is that at some point in the program, it gets hard, right? It's PhD math at the beginning. What he found was that the men in the program would tend to say at that point, wow, this is a hard program. And the women would tend to say, you see, I knew I wasn't good enough. Oh my God, that thing of, you know, how do you. It's hard, but how do you respond to that? What is, as you say, what is your mindset when you approach a hurdle? Is it that I'm not good enough or is it, this is difficult and I'm going to overcome the challenge and carry on.

That's the Carol the growth mindset.

What a groundbreaking work, right?

Yeah. But women tend to have that less easily because we personalize. So it's important. And it's important to start with girls because again, right at puberty is when all of this kicks in. The people pleasing, perfectionism, confidence drop. It's one big storm. And you have these girls. People like parents won't recognize them. What happened from one year to the next, right. They'll have girls who were just going right along up till age 9, 10, 11. And then.

Do you think that I interviewed an amazing guy, Terry Real, who's a renowned couples therapist and a best selling author and he's an expert on the dynamic of patriarchy. And what he says in a nutshell is we split ourselves in half. In a patriarchal society, we all know what that is. Masculine is strong, invulnerable, gets it done. Assertive, confident, feminine is soft, malleable, pleasing, puts other people first. Do you think that part of this is at age 12 we begin to be even more influenced by patriarchy? Do you think so?

I think that we are, I think it's heavily hormonal. I mean, I think that the girls hit puberty and the things that give us that ability to read people's emotions, feel the pain, react to it, right? We have higher EQ typically. And I say we, I mean we're all on spectrum, right? There are women who don't have high EQ and there are a lot of men who are enormous, you know, enormously smart emotionally. But all of that lets that it makes girls just more risk averse because they're studying everybody's reactions and emotions all the time. But, but I do think there was Caddy, you remember? I mean we, there's also the fact that girls get rewarded from an earlier age for good behavior. So that part, that's the societal bit, right?

That's the cultural bit.

We're rewarded for that, that pleasing behavior.

Thing, for sitting still in our seats, for getting 100% on our spelling tests. And so we get, we start to think that's why we're valuable, because we do all of that and then we don't want to change it.

I do want to amplify what you said, Claire, that I really believe, because we have an expanded emotional intelligence and we can read cues when you're going to do the hard stuff, like ask for a raise. We can read the energy of the person we're asking and if they don't want to do it or it's uncomfortable, you know, that's harder for someone who's more empathic or more understanding of the emotion. Did you find that in your research too?

I mean, there's definitely something about. We train our girls, you know, with certain cues to be good girls. I mean, I wish we could banish that phrase. You are such a good girl. Because actually what we are training them to do is not rock the boat, right? And maybe in the lovely world of academia, in school, being a good girl pays off because you put your head down, you work hard, you become a little bit of a perfectionist, you stay up all night revising or essay, and guess what? It gets you a straight A. And then we get our girls and we put them into the world, real world of careers and professions and there's a whole different set of rules. The rules have changed and then we don't play so well. And no one's ever said to us, actually, you know what, all of that perfectionism that we taught you to do, all that being a good girl that we taught you to do and that we rewarded you for in middle school, that's not actually going to work very well in the professional context. But we're not really equipping our girls for that world where you need to be a little bit more of a self promoter. You need to not worry about am I here by the grace and favor of my employer, but start thinking I'm here because I'm good and I deserve that pay raise and I'm going to ask for it. And if they look a little bit uncomfortable, that is their problem, not my problem. And we're not really training our girls for that.

And can I say, Claire, I want to hear, but I think that we're not training society for it yet either. So a lot of people say, okay, Kathy, I'm finding brave. I took the powerful step, I took the. And boy, it didn't go well. Because still, let's say we're a 30 year old, 35 year old rocking it as a director. We're still considered a biatch if we are strong and strident and confident. Don't you, don't you think, or are you seeing it shift in your wrestling?

I think there's more of a shift.

Right?

I mean especially in the last couple of years and especially post. Me too. I think there's more awareness and a willingness in organizations to have the conversation. But there's no question that, you know, women are going to have to rock the boat a little bit and broaden the way, broaden our behavioral lane. And the people who are doing that initially are the ones who are going to find it a little bit harder. But I think we have to, it has to happen. But I agree.

Now tell me about the latest book, Living the Confidence Code. How did this idea emerge? How is it different from your other books? Tell us all about it.

Well, we, we had an incredible reaction to the confidence code for girls and it was so exciting. We've, we've had a lot of grown women say that we like the girls book better because there are all these quizzes and exercise scenarios and it's, it's really, really fun to do. One thing we found was that girls really related to the stories that we had at the end of each chapter. And so what we've. I think we just spent a lot of time in the confidence code for girls figuring out what, what, how do girls learn? How will they be influenced? What's going to work? And one thing we really found, which is obvious because it's important for all of us, is that stories have a huge impact. Right? We learn through stories. And so then we thought if we could find a group of girls with incredible stories, teenage girls, maybe this would, you know, have an even greater impact for girls. And we weren't sure, honestly, because we thought we really want to find voices like theirs. So we were determined to find teenage voices and we thought that might not be that easy. It's incredible how many amazing girls there are out there doing extraordinary things.

You're so right. Yeah.

This is a collection of 30 girl stories from around the world. It's wonderful. We have girls from Ethiopia, we have girls from Latin America, we have girls in Asia, a girl in Nepal, girls in Indonesia, I mean, really from the uk, you name it. We are in every part of the world. And in every part of the world, the problem was not for finding girls doing amazing things. The problem was we found so many girls we just had to use the best 30 stories. And what I love about this book is that some of the girls are doing, you know, are changing the world. Right? There's some sisters in Indonesia who launched a campaign to pick up plastic from, from the beach. There's a girl in Nepal who's gone on a radio station to talk about menstruation because girls are taken out of school during their menstrual cycles and she wants to keep them in school. So there. And the girl in Flint who's working on a water project. So there are girls, amazing things, but there are also girls who just have everyday challenges. Right. There's a girl in California, I love her, Taylor Fuentes, who's was bullied in fifth grade. I mean, like really bullied about how she looked, how she sounded. She's of Mexican heritage and she started becoming depressed and occlusive and she dealt with it. She dealt with it by talking to adults about it. And that took bravery and it was a risk for her because there are so many girls who suffer from bullying and are silent about it and just. And I love the fact that some of these girls are doing big things, but some of them are doing small things. But the small things Take just as much confidence.

I would say, you know, the impact of that is huge, right. You know, a thousand or, you know, half a million girls will read your book and they will say if she can do this, and I see how she can do this, I can do this. That might be an enormous ripple.

And they're just hearing another girl who's like you, who's your age. It's so much better than Claire and I telling them, right. We are not, we're annoying 12, 13, 14 year old girls, but we have found the voices of 12, 13, 14 year old girls.

I think what we tried to, it was important to us in these stories to embed and hopefully not in an obvious way, but to embed the lessons of confidence building. And it's the same stuff you're talking about, Kathy, right. It's taking a risk, failing, most likely some failure and persevering. And so the stories weren't about girls who just sort of went from here to here, right, with no trouble. We look stories where there were bumps, there was failure and where the girls would talk about that and talk about their fears and how they felt. You know, one girl in Texas, I just love her story. Anahi, who founded a thrift store in her high school because she goes to a very, you know, poor public school where people just don't have really enough money for clothes often or winter coats. And her idea was to take away the shame and be essentially let people trade clothing, which a huge failure at the beginning. Right. Our whole story starts with her just wanting to hide under her bed. And like clearly I this was. And then she figures out how to pick herself up and start again. And I think, well, the girl who.

Opens a little light crepe restaurant and she has a soft opening and no one comes and she's like, oh my, you know, and again it's that reaction of I shouldn't have aimed so high, you see, I shouldn't have done it. It was too much for me. So then she goes back to the drawing board with her family and they figure it out and it becomes a success. But we're as keen to show the failures that these girls go through, the struggles that the girls go through to get there as we are, to show successes, because that's reality.

Oh, I love it. You know what comes to mind? I am now serving as a mentor for an organization called the Diana Award in the uk. Have you heard of it? But you know how I heard of it? Quickly, a 21 year old young woman who was a Diana Award Recipient reached out to me and said, I admire your Forbes blog. You know, maybe may I be so bold as to share what I'm doing? She did it so 21. She did it so beautifully. I couldn't resist featured her. But this is the most important thing that came out of it to me. She said, you've been so helpful. Is there any way I could be of help to you? Now? Look at those lessons at 21. At 19, we don't think we have anything right. And I said, well, actually, you know, so many. She has a mental. Mental health app that colleges all over the world are adopting. And I said, you know, so many colleges. I. I'm speaking a lot. I'd love to speak anywhere. You think it would be helpful about, you know, girls, young women. In two days, she interview inter. Introduced me to five people, all of whom have said yes to either me, mentoring, judging. I want to tell you, that is more than any one adult person has ever done.

Right.

You know, it's just remarkable.

That's something else important about this generation, especially this generation of girls. They're activists. It's a girl. You know, the girls are just seizing on issues and accomplishing incredible things. And I think that's another confidence trick we talk about, which is if you can stop focusing on yourself and you focus on something bigger, it's a way to bootstrap yourself to confidence, right? Because suddenly it's easier when you're helping with plastic bottles or the environment or working for other people. And it just. It's a great trick for all of us.

In fact, we have a great story in the book about a girl, Kiara Beth. She's in Ireland. And actually, this is exactly what you're talking about, Claire. She had grown up always thinking she saw things a little differently, but she didn't quite understand why people would say, like, oh, it's raining cats and dogs. And she'd look out and literally expect there to be cats and dogs. And so she realized, and her family realized that she. That there was something that was a bit different about the way she saw the world. And so eventually, at the age of 13, she was diagnosed with autism. And she. Her immediate reaction was, how do I help other people? And she started developing an app. And it's so simple to help look people in the eye because she said, for autistic people, it's really difficult to look somebody in the eye. And she'd always had a problem looking people in the eye. And at school, she'd been often told off because she didn't look the teacher in the eye. And she did research and she realized that people were not getting job interviews because they didn't look in the eye. So she thought, this is so simple.

How do I.

And she had lots of fits and starts and it didn't go well and took her out a long time, a lot longer than she thought. But eventually she came up with it and it was this idea of service in a sense of helping other people with something as simple and literal and tangible as looking people in the eye. And how do people with autism learn to overcome that hurt?

How remarkable doesn't it isn't, doesn't the research show that women, while they have a difficult time advocating for themselves, they can be like a lioness when they're advocating for their children or others? I mean, I find whether you're a man or a woman, what ignites our passion most is turning our mess into a message. I think, you know, I. That's why I do it.

I love that.

I wish, I love that phrase. I wish it could say, you know, dash, Kathy, Caprio. But I did not make that up. I don't know where I got it. But anyway, I know that finally, after an unhappy 18 year corporate career and then therapy, even being a difficult professional identity, the career coaching with women lets me turn my mess into a message. You know, facing gender discrimination, sexual harassment, toxic colleagues, narcissistic bosses, zero work life balance, chronic illness. If I can help one woman a day not have this, hey, right. So I think what we're doing is leveraging that innate wish to let me turn my mess into a message. Oh, what else can we learn from your new book? What would you say the biggest takeaway is?

I think, I hope the biggest takeaway for girls. And we did try with a light hand. We hope in some of these stories to pull out, you know, we have a confidence quicksand or confidence building blocks. We sort of put fun arrows and said, hey, you know, notice this. But I think it's if they can learn how to start, how to try, if they can see that really you do need to just take that first step because that is in the cycle of building confidence. And this is the work you do, you do have to make the leap, even if it's a small leap. And so somehow being inspired by enough of these in the book, finding somebody they can relate to.

Caddy, we talk about do it afraid because a lot of us want to take a risk or do something new. And I think this applies to adults and girls in particular. And then we Think, oh, my God, I can't, because I'm afraid what's going to happen. And you start. Girls particularly start catastrophizing. You know, they, I'll try this and then the whole world will blow up in my face. And I will never graduate middle school and I will never graduate high school, and I will end up on a bridge and have no friends and no job. And that's how my life is going to be. And they will get from there to there in about 20 seconds. And I think that if we can show girls that, yeah, you may be afraid to open that crep stand to launch a campaign for animals to try. We have a girl who's. Who got out of a child marriage. You may be afraid to stand up to your dad and say, I do not want to get married at the age of 12. That is scary.

Right?

But it's scary for everybody and you can still do it. So do it even if you're afraid, because the downside, the risk is so much smaller than you think it's going to be.

And again, we have. Yes. I mean, the child marriage story is just mind blowing.

She's amazing.

What a brave soul.

Sisters in Minnesota who realized. Muslim sisters who realized that every book they read, they never saw anybody like themselves. And they started with, you know, raising $150, trying to convince local PTAs, but they're both so shy. They were terrified just to speak at their local community meeting, which I think is something probably most girls can relate to. And so they talked about their tricks and how they, you know, got bored.

Oh, my gosh. So inspiring. I want to amplify two things, and I know I have to let you go soon. You know, do you said caddy. You may be afraid. You will be afraid. So, like when people say, well, I do want to start this business or leave, but I'm afraid sometimes when I'm a little snarky, I go, so what? Of course you're afraid.

It's normal.

If you weren't afraid, you'd be a narcissist or not in the real world.

But so what?

Then I explain what I mean. But. But part of why this podcast is is called Finding Brave. I did a TED talk called Brave up, and I was going to name the podcast that. And of course, I didn't have the trademark and lost it. But what came to me through a friend is Brave up is almost like a slap Brave Up. But Finding Brave is what we have to do every minute of the day. And you are going to get knocked down. It's just the journey. So if you can embrace the boy. Am I going to fail? I remember hearing Sarah Blakely speak years ago and she said that at dinner her father would ask her and her brother every night, what did you fail at today? And he wasn't fooling around. If they weren't failing, they weren't stretching.

Wow.

How about that? I can tell you that wasn't my family's discussion at dinner.

It's a great question.

I know.

Oh, I love it.

Any last words? And of course where we can read your book and where we can learn more about your incredible work and research. Where do we go?

You can go. We have two websites right now, Confidence Code Girls and ConfidenceCode.com but you can find out about any of our books on either website. And the book comes out February 23rd, I think.

Right.

We're just eager for people to embrace it and give us feedback and hear about these amazing.

We're so excited that these girls are getting their voices put out too. It's great that people are hearing what they're doing.

Yes.

I can't thank you enough. Look at the work that you. All that you are doing in the world and then you're taking time to write five best selling books. You are just such role models for me. I can tell you. And for anyone who listens to work.

Telling you about them right now.

Thank you again. Thank you and wish you just a smashing success.

That was such a fun conversation. Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here. All the best. And I'll see you on my Forbes blog, which I'm featuring. You all there too.

Yeah. We appreciate it. Thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you. All right everyone, if you're not inspired, I don't know what the heck, but wherever you see this posted, leave us a comment. Tell us your story. I know I would love to hear it. Please let us hear from you. And we're praying that it inspires you to find brave and live that confidence code because we need you. We need your gifts and talents. The world needs you. Thanks everyone. Bye bye.