How humility can keep women stuck and afraid

Hello, everybody. Kathy Caprino here, and welcome to my Brave Up Tuesday. If you joined me a second ago, sometimes my Internet connection doesn't, doesn't really sustain this. So then I get cut off. So I'm going to wait one minute, make sure people are coming in. All right, there we go. I wonder why that happens. If somebody's a techie and knows often, I'll start the video and it'll say, you don't have the connection. I'll end it, start it again, Here we are. So if you're a Facebook wizard or techie, you let me know why that happens. I am Kathy Caprino. Welcome to Brave Up Tuesday. We are talking today about humility and how the definition, the societal and cultural definition of humility is, can actually keep women stuck and afraid. And I get, for some people, this will be controversial and, you know, bring it on. I want to talk to you about, you know, what it is to be online and to share our ideas. And what that really means is we have to be strong and steel ourselves because we're going to get criticized, we're going to get attacked. That's a little bit of a different point. Sorry, I'm getting a lot of text, but I do want to start there. I want to give you the backstory of why I feel this is really important for women in particular. So last week, my dear friend William Arruda, who's a wonderful Forbes contributor, posted an article about seven parenting traits that help children succeed at work. And I loved it. So I shared it online on LinkedIn elsewhere, and I said that my favorite trait was humility. My favorite parenting trait. And the next day, you know, I wake up in the morning sometimes. I read my phone, I look at my emails, and I see that I've been insulted, insulted right there because of what I said about humility. And this fellow from another country, who I do not know never heard of, basically smacked me down. And I'm not going to give it to you verbatim because I don't want to justify it, but basically he said humility. How can you like humility? You have no humility. And maybe you don't understand what humility is. What does it mean to you? And let me educate you as to why you have no humility. Oh, thanks so much. Appreciate that. So that was a smackdown. And, and the way he wrote it, there was more in it. There were signs and smiley faces. It was a total smackdown. And I did not want to engage with that because I don't, you know, this is my LinkedIn profile, my updates. I don't need to be smackdown on my own profile. If, however, people do want to suggest some things or point out some things in a respectful, dignified, courteous way, I'm all ears. But no, not if I'm going to get smackdown. So I'm telling you this because it leads into the story about humility. It was, for me, the last straw in terms of what I will and will not tolerate on my own social media platforms. And so it comes, the last straw. Let me talk to you about the first straw, which, you know, probably started years ago, but in March, I posted a Forbes post and a video on what is feminism and why do so many men and women hate it? And I put it up on YouTube and it was the first time I ever saw the depth of rage and hatred against women that exists in this country. It was scary. I think I might have talked about this in another video, but I was sworn at obscenities that you never want to see, ever. You know what the word is, the C word for women, I was sworn at. I was told I was, you know, bad things. A lot of bad things. And so March began, a time where I began to think, what do we do when we are criticized and attacked online? And when this happened in LinkedIn, I actually wrote a post and you can find them all on this page, on my business page on how to handle being critique, attacked or insulted online. But now let's talk about humility. One of my wonderful clients who I learned a lot from Stephanie said, huh? I'd be interested to understand why this guy thinks you have no humility. Be interesting to know. Well, I didn't want to engage with him because I knew it wouldn't be a dialogue that would be, what do you call it, productive. But I began to think about humility. So I've been doing this work for 11 years, therapy and coaching. Work therapy for the first five years and then coaching alongside it. And you know, I've personally coached over 11,000 women, but I've in my courses and webinars, it's probably 10 times that, that I've intersected with that many women. And you know, when you do that kind of social research, you see trends. And one of the trends is that the societal and cultural definition and mandate of humility for women holds women back. Absolutely holds them back. And, you know, I see some wonderful friends of mine who are guys, hello. I love your thoughts too. I'd love your thoughts about. And so later I post them for me, ask a question or Share your feedback. Do you think this resonates? Do you struggle as men with the idea of humility or talking proudly about your accomplishments? I would love to hear. Really, I'm all ears and so are all of us. But I want to talk about humility and five ways that I've seen Humility holds women back. And I want to say this, particularly if women want to be leaders, spokespeople or catalysts for change, or thought leaders or writers, or if they want to be in the public eye at all, or if they want to build a business or if they want to build a personal brand, humility, the way society defines it, gets in the way. So let me, let me talk about exactly what I mean. When you look up humility online. So Merriam Webster definition is freedom from pride or arrogance, the quality or state of being humble. And when you look up what humble is, humble is defined as not haughty, not proud, not arrogant or assertive. Well, that's a big problem. So women in particular in our society are taught, don't show that you're proud. And I know proud has a lot of definitions, but this is what I see. Don't be proud of yourself. You better not look like you're proud and you better not be assertive because then you're not feminine, you're not desirable, you're not pleasing, you're not appropriate and you're not acceptable. And so when I'm saying stuff, folks, if it resonates with you, if it speaks to you, send me a thumbs up so I know that I'm not too just talking into a camera. That'd be so great for me. So the five ways that humility, the way society defines it, holds women back. So first of all, I see over and over and over that women believe and I'm looking down because I'm looking at my notes and you can read this in my Forbes post. Women believe that speaking up for themselves or advocating powerfully and compellingly for what they want. Thank you everybody. Makes them less likable. Do we just fantasize about this and it's crazy? No, actually they're right. There have been numerous reliable, renowned research studies that prove this. In fact, Sheryl Sandberg talks about it in her first book, lean In, I understand. Her second book came out, which I am interested to read. But Lean in talks about success and likability are positively correlated for men and negatively correlated for women. So the more successful a woman is, the more society doesn't like a woman. So I've also seen in Research that I've covered in my Forbes blog that we are women are punished when they look forceful or assertive. I did. You can find this in my Forbes blog that gender bias truly exists. Behavioral researchers, they're called the behavioral science guys. Joseph Grenny and David Maxwell did a study where they and I talk about this in my TEDx talk. Time to brave up. They filmed an actor, a female actor and a male actor saying the exact same thing in a forceful way that they didn't like the direction of what was being discussed at the meeting or what the company was going to do. And both men and women in the audience viewed the woman much more negatively. Her perceived competency went down. Her perceived value, what she should earn went down dramatically. Now, the men, the man's did as well, but not nearly as big as the woman. And there's just tons of studies. One famous one, I think it was in California, they had a profile of a very successful woman and they changed the name to a man's name and handed the two profiles out. And nobody wanted to work for the successful woman. But the man with the same exact profile, yeah, he's great. He'd be a great mentor, sponsor. I'd learn from him. We're not making this up, so. And there's a lot of unconscious bias, not just consciously against women, but unconscious if she's forceful. So, you know, you got to look at this guy who smacks me down, a guy I don't know who says, you have no humility. He's obviously looking at what I say and what I do in making a judgment. I'm too proud. I'm too assertive, Right. So humility. This is not helping us. It's not helping us. Now what do we do? I talk about in my TEDx talk? We can't shy away from speaking powerfully about our contributions. That doesn't mean we become a narcissist. That doesn't mean we're just always talking about Go, Kathy. It means that we are speaking in a compelling way about what matters to us and why it matters and who we can help and what needles we want to move in the world. But we can't shy away from speaking up about what we care about. Oh, pretty good. I'm getting text from you all. Thank you. Thank you, folks. All right. The second way humility holds us back is this many women feel guilty. They literally use that word. I mean, I hear it absolutely several times a week, if not almost daily. Women feel guilty putting themselves first and putting themselves forward and asking for what they want and deserve. Guilty. So the guys on this video type in for me. Do you feel guilty when you put yourself forward? Do you feel guilty asking for what you deserve? Do you feel guilty telling your family, you know, I really need this. I need this time away, or I need to go for this promotion, or in fact, this job is so big that I'm thinking about perhaps going forward, and I know it would mean it would move our family. Let's talk about it. Do the guys on. On this video feel good? Guilty. I don't hear that word from men, and I do work with men. So I'm bringing this all up so that we can gain awareness. Greater awareness equals greater choice. So that you can be aware. For all the women listening, if you feel guilt and where that guilt comes from, it's really important to look at the root of it. Did you learn it by looking at your mother and father's dynamics? Did you learn about it as a child that women should be seen and not heard and should look beautiful when they're being seen? Did you learn that women shouldn't be powerful? Did you learn that women should stay in the home? What did you learn? Where did you get this? And maybe you didn't get it in your childhood, but maybe you got it in your first experiences working. You know, everybody knows this story, and about 80% of the women listening will understand this. When I was a director and vice president, I was charged with big, big projects. As a vice president, I was responsible for a 30 million dollar marketing budget. I had to be assertive and sometimes I had to be forceful. But at the very end of my time there, what became clear is I was called the B word when the guys doing exactly what I was doing were applauded and recognized and promoted and given raises. But I'm the B word. I'm the bitch. I'm the one that's. She's a little hard to work with. Wow, it's frustrating. It's so frustrating. So frustrating. All right, what do we do? We first gain awareness of how you feel. Then we'll figure out what to do about it. All right. The third way humility holds women back today still is women believe that appearing proud of their accomplishments or talking about them will make them look bad. So I can't tell you how many women I'm coaching either to go interview or to negotiate the salary that they're getting in their current job or in the new job. You know, they are really reluctant to talk about their contributions in concrete way. If you don't do that. You're not going to get the money you deserve. You're not going to get the growth you deserve. And I can guarantee you your male colleagues are not holding back, right? They're walking in and they're saying, well, you know, it's been six months, I've been a vice president and I brought in $3 million of new revenue and I've streamlined and done this. You know, I'd really love to talk about kind of the next level for me or, you know, being compensated for that. They're not shy about it. You know, one research study I Read said that 57% of men negotiate the salary of their first job and 7% of women do. We gotta get on the, we gotta get on this. Women, we've got to start talking about what we're doing. And again, I don't mean in a braggarty, gross way. Look at me. Woohoo. I mean, here's what I've done, you know, here's the needles, it's moved, here's how the company's benefited. You know, I really like to talk about compensation. You know, I, I look back and there have been times in my vice president job and my directorships where I was able to do this, where I was able to say, you know, I'm happy to take on this new business, business area. Can we talk about the compensation that will come with that? It was a discussion. You know, I thought 40,000 made sense. My boss thought 20,000 made sense. We netted at 30,000. You got to be able to do this. Okay, all right. Another, the fourth way that humility, the way society views it, stands in the way of women, is the idea of building a personal brand. And I was talking to my friend William Arruda, who's, you know, one of the top, I think, the top personal branding expert, and he says, absolutely. Women don't want to talk about their own accomplishments. They want other people to speak about them. And yeah, sure, we want that. We need that. Can't all be us saying how great we are, we need that. But if you can't talk about what you do, if you can't talk about why you should hire me. You know, every day when someone calls and says, I'm interested in working with you or I'm interested in hiring you for a lot of money, to speak, I have to sell that. I have to pitch it. I can't just say awesome. I have to tell them why I am the right person to do that. In talking to potential clients, you talk about what you've done, the types of outcomes that you can't guarantee in coaching, but you can talk about the outcomes you characteristically deliver or help deliver in people's lives. You talk about what you've been through personally. That allows you to have a special lens into why you're helping and why you're successful at helping people. You've got to be able to say it so that they can say, she's the one for me. And another way to look at it is when you talk about how you do the work you do and what you do, you're creating an important and useful thing, filter for people. So if I talk about, you know, why, why should someone hire me? I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this for you. I'm gonna give you an example of how you can do it. Why would be. Number one, I had a high level corporate career for 18 years, and I understand the challenges women face in that. Number two, I became a therapist. And I have a special lens into people's lives and psyche and personality. And that therapy training helps, you know, I leverage that every day. Number three, I focus intensively on women. I feel like I understand women's challenges better than probably anybody on the planet. Now, that may sound like, oh, what a braggart, but I believe it. And I've written a book, breakdown breakthrough, about the 12 hidden challenges working women face and how we overcome them. So I feel that when you talk about what you've achieved and their statistic, measurable, concrete, validatable information that supports it, then you're not bragging, you're sharing. You're sharing. Right? And what's the fourth thing that I talk about? That I'm a writer. I write on forbes, you know, 25 million views, I hear from a lot of people every month. And that helps me keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on for women. I would love you to tell me, does that sound like bragging? I don't feel like I'm bragging. And people don't tend to respond at all that, what a bragger, they tend to hire me, you know, when I pitch it in that way. So I'm really. I'm doing this because I want you to do it. I want you to talk about, why should someone hire you? How do you stand out? How are you special? How has everything that's happened in your life made you who you are and made you special? Because every human being is special and every human being is gifted and every human being has a talent that can be of Service to the world. What is yours? If you don't tell us, we don't know and we can't, you can't leverage it. Okay, what else? Finally, the fifth one many. I got a phone call coming in. Shy away from networking and sadly when we do that, we cut off all the opportunities that we have for people to number one, help us, number two, become our sponsors and our ambassadors and open doors for us when we're not in the room. Give us heads up about opportunities we ought to know about. Connect us with people that are going to help us. You can't achieve your big dreams and visions if you're not networking. But so many women, and a lot of women are, a lot of people are introverts and they find they consider networking an extrovert activity. So I've done some writing about that, how how introverts can rocket it at their networking and I've interviewed some great people about that. But you need to be networking and connecting with a lot of people and especially if you have a business, if you have a brand, if you have something to offer or something to sell, if you want to be a thought leader, you need people for that and you can't be shy about telling these people what you need. I mentioned in another video, but I love this story. I'm going to mention it again. I have a mentor and a sponsor and an ambassador called Judy Robinette, that's her name. And we met years ago when I featured featured her and another woman on Forbes and she became a fast friend. She the very after that Forbes interview, about three months later, I got an email about two lines, how are you, Kathy and what do you need? That was it. How you doing? Hope you're doing well. What do you need? I'd never gotten an email. I have never gotten one before or since anything like that. But that's Judy. She doesn't have a lot of time for, you know, long emails. You it's what's going on with you? How can I help you? What do you need? And that email made me stop and say what do I need? Because she has a Rolodex with billionaires in it and top entertainment people and top financiers and business people and entrepreneurial people. And it's amazing. So if she's asking me what I need, I better darn well come up with the thing that I need because she'll be able to get help me, give it to me, introduce me to people. And I did. And she did. And you know, another way networking works is she needed something in terms of writing a bio, and I did that for her, and I was glad to do it. So networking is so important. But if you're too humble, if humility makes it hard for you to talk about, what do you need and what do you want, then you're not going to get out of the gate. You're not going to get out of the gate. So I want to leave you with a few questions. Men and women. How do you feel about pride, about being assertive? Are you comfortable with it? Can you talk about yourself in a way? And I don't mean all the time, every minute of every day. I mean strategically. Can you talk about what you're great at? And do you feel like you can be assertive without getting smacked down, like I was on LinkedIn? So think about that for yourself. If you're rocking it and you're feeling, let's say, the guys listening. No, I'm really good with that. Then I ask you to help someone else. Help someone else who you see struggles. If you're rocking it, then you are. You have chops in that area. So help someone else. You know, a woman in your life who needs this or a man. Okay? And for all the women who struggle with this, what can you do today? What can you do that will allow you to, as I say, identify the 20 facts of you, the measurable, statistic, concrete, substantive things that you have done that you want to talk about? And let me tell you one more thing. What you talk about and what you share on LinkedIn and what you share online, you will get back a hundredfold. So if you're redoing your LinkedIn profile, and I hope you will, and I have a great guide to do that that William Arruda wrote for my community. Don't write about the things you hate to do. Write about the things that you've been great at, that you love to do. Put that in your tagline. Don't make your tagline your job title, because you are more than your job. You're so much more than your job. And if you want to attract more, you want to talk about the richness of what you have done that other employers or other people who are going to hire you are going to need and want. Does that help? Is that helpful? All right, so we got a few more minutes. Who wants to ask a question? I want to hear your questions. How do you struggle? How have you been slapped down? What has it meant to you? And, you know, often what happens is, you know, they say the research Shows that girls start going underground at age 13. They stop speaking powerfully. They stop envisioning themselves as a leader. Well, they don't just stop automatically. They stop because society trains us to stop. You know, I. I had it in my own childhood, you know, don't get too big for your britches. I heard that. I heard you're sounding a little egotistical. I don't like it. Yeah. Have you heard that it hurts? It hurts. So what do you feel about this? Tell me, are you struggling with this? Oh, that's where I was going. Society does this. We don't just pop out and say, oh, I better not be too assertive. So tell me, what is the struggle that you have? I would love to hear from somebody. Tell me any questions at all about how do I become more assertive? How do I ask for the salary I deserve? Man, that's a whole. Excuse me, here I am losing my voice. That's a whole other issue that women are. Oh, wonderful. Oh, let's see what you say. Hi, Andri. Come from a narcissistic mom. Always hard to promote. So. Right. Any of you, on listening to this, who are adult children of narcissists? We were punished for shining brightly. Well, there's. There's many different kinds of narcissists, or several. One kind wants you to shine and wants you to go to Harvard and Yale and a valedictorian because it reflects well on them and there isn't unconditional love. You're loved conditionally by how well you do. Another kind of narcissist doesn't want you to brave up and speak up and ask for what you want. You're punished for that. So anyone who's an adult child of a narcissist is going to struggle with that. If that rings a bell, join my thriving after narcissism group Facebook group. Also, I'm starting a monthly open call with the amazing counselor and therapist Lynn Carroll. We've both worked in depth on the issue of narcissism. We've helped people overcome trauma, and this open call is there to provide you affordable help. It's coaching help with a therapeutic bent. It's not meant to replace you getting the therapeutic help you need, but it is there for us to answer your questions and move you forward and that. The first call is Friday, this Friday at 1pm Eastern. And you can see the link to that and register. You have to register for that. You have to become a subscriber. It's $47 a month. You can see that on this page, if you scroll down, you'll see it thriving after narcissism. I hope to see you there. Hi, Da. How are you? Great to see you. I always thought of your thought your work should speak for itself. I know that's a mistake, but it's how I feel. So let's talk about that. Why do you feel that? And that's why I didn't bother promoting myself. Yeah. So let's help you with this. Why did you feel that? Where did you get this message? So, you know, I have to say, I'm a coach, but the therapeutic lens has taught me that it's a lot easier to change a limiting belief or action if we know where it came from. Because then let's say you're an adult child, a narcissist, and you read about narcissism and you go, oh, my gosh, that was my father, or that was my brother, or that was my mother, or that was my sibling, or that's my child. You know, then where it comes from, and then you can tweak it. So. So, Da, where did it come from? Where'd you get that idea? Was it culturally trained? Was it societally trained? Sometimes it's our ancestry, sometimes it's our nationality. You know, I have. I want to tell you this. This may be controversial, but I have an amazing woman from China in my coach certification course, and she's committed to helping Asian women speak up because culturally, they are diminished and punished and alienated for that. Where'd it come from? Let's figure it out, and then let's shift it. Nicole. Hi, Nicole. Thanks for your questions. Here's a kind of funny. I can feel a prickly rash of redness grow across my cheeks when I'm trying to be assertive. Holy cow. Which then gets into my head, and I feel like I'm betraying myself. This is fascinating. Betraying myself and lack of confidence. A prickly rash of redness. Wow. All right. So, you know, I want to tell you, I would get hives when I would say things that made me nervous. Thank you for sharing that, Nicole. That's open and honest. I would get hives when I was nervous. You know, I could be wrong. You tell me. But, you know, this is because you get very nervous to do it. And I'm guessing that's from childhood. Either you were very shy or you were punished to do it, or you were discouraged from doing it, or, you know, it makes you nervous. And our skin. You may think this sounds crazy, but I believe you Know, there's a wonderful book, you Can Heal youl Life, Louise Hay of Hay House, and she talks about what some chronic ailments and diseases mean spiritually. Well, you know, in my book Breakdown Breakthrough, my first chapter is Healing Chronic Illness. But I really believe that there are metaphoric reasons underneath some of our emotional and physical problems. So what I mean by that is our skin is our boundary. So often we will have skin issues that represent a problem with our boundary, our boundary for who we really are. Think that's a boundary issue. And you know, you're not alone. You are not alone. So the question is, how do we make you feel better? Speaking assertively. Let's practice. Let's role play. Find a mentor to role play this. Let's get you beyond having a rash on your face. Thank you for sharing. Da. If you get the results, isn't that who you want? A team? That's who I look for. The people that can actually get things done. Done. Yeah. Well, let me. Let me understand what you mean. How does that relate to not speaking up for yourself? Does that. Are. Are you saying that. Yeah, I like people who speak up, who are assertive. Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm assuming that's what you mean. Yeah. I don't hire. Hire wallflowers. I hire people who can say what needs to be said and get done what needs to be get gotten done. And you know what? That takes strength. That takes, you know, look at. Look at what's going on. For anybody who's online, we're getting our asses kicked. Are we going to stop? Are we going to cave? No, we're going to be strong. And that's. That's the people you want on your team. I think that's what you mean. But let me know if not. Nicole, you blush. Mm. Like blushing? Yes. Nicole. So that was childhood. You were put down. We're going to help you with that. I'd love to help you, Da. Don't people look at actions and results versus talking about it? Okay, let me leave us with this. Keep asking your questions. They look at actions and results, but actions and results don't happen if you're not talking about things. I mean. I see. Da. We're going to meet. I know you're resisting this, and that's okay. You can have your beliefs, but how are they working for you? Is it working for you? Not talking about yourself, not promoting yourself, not being assertive? Is it working? If it's working, then you don't need to do any shifting. But you Know, when I was a vice president and a director, I hired a lot of people and I hire a lot of people. Now I hire suppliers and I hire vendors. Sorry, Da, you just don't understand. Tell me what you don't understand. Tell me. Tell me exactly and I'll answer it. What I'm getting at is when I hire people and when I want people on my team, I want people that get things done. Absolutely. But part of getting things done is speaking up about why. Let me give you an example. If I had a team, at one point, I had a team of 10 people, and there were certain resources that were allocated to this team doing IT work and development work. If somebody came to me and said, here, I need more access to more of those resources, and here is why. And there's 10 reasons. And they're speaking about it. And they're speaking about what they're getting done and why it's important they're going to get the money. The other nine people who say nothing, who aren't talking about what they're doing, who aren't talking about the importance of that part of that project and why it's important they're not going to get the money. So talking about what you do is really important to connect with people, to build a new career. You can't build a new career if you're not talking about yourself, about what you do. I wouldn't be able to get clients. I wouldn't be able to get speaking gigs. I wouldn't be able to get course members. I wouldn't be able to run my business if I weren't speaking openly like I am about what I do. I don't mean to harangue you, Da. I don't. I'm just trying to make my point. But I'll stay on one more minute if you explain to me, tell me what you don't understand about this, and I'll share one more, you know, one more angle about it. There you go. I understand, but it feels like being a blowhard. And I know so many people who talk and talk and promote themselves, rise to the top, but actually don't do anything. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I'm so glad you shared that there are blowhards. I hope you don't think I'm one. I know you're in my programs. You let me know. Yeah, I mean, there are people that are narcissists. I mean, many times I've been surrounded by narcissists in my work. There are people that have no sensitivity. There are people that are only talking about how great they are. I really thank you. Thank you for that. I really want you to differentiate between the kind of speaking up I'm talking about and blow hard braggarty behavior. You know I'm assertive. You know that I speak up a lot. But you don't think I'm one of these people. So why don't we help you dimensionalize? Well, what do people who I respect who are assertive and talk about their work do differently than the blowhards? Why don't we do that? That would be really helpful. Okay. What is the difference between someone who can speak authoritatively and is a thought leader and who shares what they have to say in a brave way? I mean, look at Brene Brown. You wouldn't call what she's got going on as humility. You'd call what I feel what she's got going on in terms of training. 20 million views. Every one of her TED TED talks has a million to 20 million views. It's not humility. It's standing up for people and standing up for herself and being outspoken and sharing what she sees in a unique way that rocks your friggin world. That's not humility. That's being brave and getting in the arena. And you know, I featured her at Authenticity. Love it. I featured her in her TED Talk about why you shouldn't care about the critics she talks about. I'm not going to listen to anybody who's not in the arena. She's in the arena. You can't be all about humility and be in the arena. But let's help you dimensionalize that because I really want you to overcome it. It's really important. Thank you. All right. Yolanta. Hi. I feel humiliated and disrespected by colleagues who do not know elementary common rules of ethics who behave like in a market in a place which is meant for customer service. This is fascinating. A decent office for anyone who comes in to solve an issue in an official government in governing institution. Feel being alone wanting to hear and welcome clients. I feel disrespected. Talk to them or the manager didn't help. Am I wrong to want silence and order? Wow. I would have to know a lot more about what you're saying. If you're in a customer service office. I don't think you can have silence. Right. Because you're hearing people talk to other people. But I feel that what you're talking about is there some unethical behavior that you, you don't get behind because you're talking about ethics. It's not a decent office. So what I hear you talking about are people are breaking ethical rules. And, yeah, who would want that? But I really don't see that as the same as being positive and assertive and confident and proud. You know, let me just say this. Pride is not a bad thing. If you're not proud of yourself, you're not connected to how beautiful and brilliant. I'm not talking about you, Yolanda. In general, if you don't have pride, all of you listening, you're not connected enough to your spirit. Pride is not a bad thing. You know, we call it, oh, she's being so prideful. And even in some religious circles, it's talked about, don't be prideful. Prideful is not the same thing as feeling pride. We have to feel pride at who we are and what we've done. But it's how you go about feeling and communicating that. If you're constantly talking about, you know, how amazing you are. No, you took it over the edge. This is so amazing. Oh, Trudy. Trudy, it's so nice to see you. So, Trudy, we're sitting here talking about humility and how humility can hold women back. So I hope this was helpful, folks. You know, as I can see from your comments, when we take the idea of humility and we flip it and talk about, it's not just, okay, it's important that you learn how to be assertive. I don't mean arrogant. I don't mean aggressive. I mean, my TED Talk talks all about this. Mean compelling, I mean engaging. I mean inspiring. I mean that you can assert yourself and what you need and what you want in a powerful way. That's what I mean. And I'm really praying that this is helpful to you. And I'm sure you're going to share your comments, and I really hope this moves you forward. Yeah. Yolanda says she thinks she's better than us just because I defend ethical behavior. And. Yeah. So, you know, what you got is a person who has a superiority. Oh, that's a great final point. Thank you, Da. Superiority is not what I'm talking about. Superiority is thinking you're better than other people. That is not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is understanding that everyone is gifted. Everyone deserves respect. Everyone is beautiful. Everyone has beautiful parts of themselves, and we need to respect everyone. That's why we need equal rights and gender equality. I don't mean superiority. I mean you understand who you are and what you're doing in this world and you're able to talk about it without blushing, without getting hives, without hiding. Without hiding your light under a bushel. All right, my friends, thank you. That was rich and deep and complex. I truly hope this was helpful for anyone who couldn't join the whole thing live. These are all posted on my website@kathy caprino.com braveupvideos they're posted here, of course, and they're posted on my YouTube channel, Kathy Caprino. Nicole, isn't it fascinating how it seems we all have different interpretations? Yeah. And therein lies the problem. For some people, assertive means arrogant. For some people, assertive means superior. For some people, assertive means you're a blowhard. But what we have to understand is the word itself is a blank slate. It's what you're projecting onto it. You got to understand yourself and where you are vis a vis, showing up beautifully and in a shining way in the world and being of service to others. And we can can't be of service to others if we hide. Thanks, everybody. Have an awesome day and I'll see you next week. Bye.