What Holds Women Back Most From Living Their Ideal Lives?

Hello, everybody. I'm Kathy Caprino and I am joined by the amazing and inspiring Misa Mink and Avril MacDonald. And we are the co hosts of the upcoming women's retreat in Mykonos, Greece, called Light from the Dawn. And we are just so, so excited about that. And we thought in advance of our retreat that it would be fun and hopefully helpful if we got together, the three of us, in light of the spirit of collaboration and honoring our own unique perspectives about our work with women and what we're seeing about women and their dreams and visions and challenges, that we would just get together for a few minutes and talk about what we're seeing, the biggest trends are and share that with you in the hopes that it'll inspire you to step forward and achieve your dream in the biggest way possible. And you know, I would love to say we have a few spots left for our retreat, so if this really speaks to you and resonates, we'd love to hear from you. Avril is our tour director for the program, so she'll share a little bit more about that. But. Hello, ladies, how you doing?

Hello. Hello. It's nice to be together.

So fun.

So great to be on this call.

Yes, so great. So, Avril, anything you'd like to share about Mykonos and the retreat in general? Anything you'd like to share?

Yeah, well, you know, I lived in Greece for many years. I've taken more than 2,000 people through those islands. They are amazing. And we have just a wonderful group of women coming from such different backgrounds, with such different experience, but the same values. And it's just going to be a wonderful four day experience. So I'm super excited to get us all together. And also the women already coming just seems so interesting and it's going to be great. I'm really excited. I can't wait to be there and go through those four days with everybody.

Oh, can't wait. How about you, Misa?

Well, super excited. Absolutely. I think this is a probably quite unique setup that we have here. Very often you see there's a retreat either about just being present and mindfulness and kind of looking at your finding your purpose, but here we actually combining also the action part, so how you actually apply it in your life, in your work, in your career. So we are absolutely combining kind of the being and doing. And I love that.

Love that. Yes. So often we hear here's what we should be doing, but we literally don't know how to go about it. And we're committed in these four days to share, as you said, the thinking, the being, the doing and helping you lead with a real plan. Right.

That personal. Spiritual, if you like, but personal as well as the very practical. So combining the two, which you don't often see in a retreat, so it's quite unique.

That's it.

That's powerful.

That is powerful. All right, so we came up with three questions we wanted to hear from each of us about our perspectives. So let's start it out. Avril, you want to begin? Let me read the question. So what we are thinking of asking each of us is this from each of our perspectives. What's the top thing that holds women back from living the life they dream of? What do you see, Aral?

Well, more, I guess, from my own experience is asking for help. Just the importance of getting help from people and not being afraid to ask for help. So I learned many years ago, probably 20, 25 years ago, through Tony Robbins, who I found at that time this thing called the science of achievement, which is that within reason, you can pretty much achieve anything you want to in life if you just find someone who's doing it well and ask them for their recipe. And this has worked for me both in managing my anxiety, but also in being able to realize my own dreams and my own potential and tap into it. And it's very much about finding those people. But I think a lot of. A lot of people just think it's easy to think that everyone knows what they're doing from the beginning and they see other people in business and they think they just knew how to do it. But everyone has to start from the beginning. No one knows when they first start out. And you can only learn through doing. But asking for help, as long as you can get clear on your values and you come forth with the right intention, then most people actually want to help you. So asking for help and building your networks and. And actually not being afraid to ask for help, I think is a big thing that holds people back. And some women that I know just, they have a real problem with asking for help.

Yeah, I see that, too. I wonder. I wonder where that comes from. What do you think? Why do we have a problem with that?

I don't actually know. I guess you're the person to ask that. I mean, I'm someone who's just living my dream, so I do have a lot of people that come to me asking for help about how to make things happen, because that's what I find quite easy. But I've never really dug that deep into why that Is I come from a really emotionally secure family, so I've never had anything negative in that sense. So I was always given all the opportunities and all of the love and support I needed. So I've probably not come from a place that other people come from. So I've learned how to ask for help, But I'm more afraid of not asking for help and not living my dream. So even when sometimes I'm a bit afraid to ask for help of someone who I see is sort of a much higher level than me, the fear for me of not asking and not living my dream is greater. So that's how I've always been. But I know that's not the same for everyone because I do hear people saying they're too afraid to ask for help, but I don't actually know why. What do you think?

I think what I see. Oh, Misa, I didn't mean to interrupt.

I was just thinking that. And also wanted to build on that. It's very often I see that women want to be seen as they are having it all together, that they know they have all it in control and they're very worried, showing that. Actually, I don't quite know what I'm doing. I'm not quite sure where I'm going. So it's all of this. It's the fear of taking a risk, the fear of stepping into the unknown, which I see as a big, big thing holding women back. So kind of this lack of confidence of taking the first step.

I think that's 100% right.

Exactly. You have to then show that you don't have all the answers. So if you go and ask for help or you take a first step towards something you haven't done before, whether it's a carrier change or you want to start your own business, it's exposure. You have to expose yourself and say, listen, I put my hand up. I don't know all of this. And there's something in there that women are very, very afraid to do. Maybe it's because they try to figure out the whole scenario in advance. So if they go for a promotion, they want to be absolutely certain that they can do the job. Every possible scenario that might come up in that new job, rather than just thinking, how do I get that job? And then I figure the resting out. But I think it's this exposure of I don't have all the answers.

Yeah, It's a vulnerability thing, isn't it?

Yes, it is.

Brown has brought into the forecourt so well. But that's basically it Isn't it?

Yes. I would only add that I think there's some piece of. I'm a loser if I don't know the answer to this. They don't understand that no one knows the answers. You know, we're all trying to humph. Stumbling along, figuring that. Figuring it out and that not knowing is the sign that you're growing. It's not admitting that you don't know that's the thing you should be worried about.

Yeah, exactly. I must admit, it wasn't until I became a managing director of a company and I was in the boardroom and I realized none of these guys know.

Nobody knows what they're doing here.

They don't know. They don't know. So it was quite.

There you go. Most of us don't know.

Love it.

And Misa, what do you think is the top thing that holds women back?

Well, it's. It's taking this first step. So they think they need to know where they're going in order to start taking any steps. Whereas it actually would be enough just to know, okay, where am I right now? Is I'm not happy. There's something more for me. I'm not quite sure what it is. Something is calling my name. So I have to start going towards that direction. And maybe the direction changes. It doesn't matter. I believe that one step to a wrong direction is better than no steps at all. Because then you're learning. You take that step. Oh, that didn't work at all. This is. I don't want this. Then you have more information. As long as you stay stagnant, you get no information. So women are frozen to take the first step. And I love that every day, tiny, small steps. That's all it is. And very often it's very small changes you have to make that actually turns the ship.

I love it. And you know what? I see often anyone who's read my story knows, you know, I had an 18 year corporate career and then I said the heck with it after a lot of crisis, and I became a therapist. But after the masters in launching a therapy practice, I realized therapy is not the end point for me. And I would never say it was a mistake because I use every minute of it every day. But, you know, at that moment, after five years and a master's and an expensive journey at saying, oh, I don't think I want to be a therapist, nobody was really doing a happy dance about that in my house. But so people will say to me, well, see, I don't want to make A mistake like that. Yeah, but I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today.

Exactly.

You're so right. You have to get on that journey so that you can then pivot and pivot and pivot till it really comes together. So if you're afraid of making mistakes, you're afraid of failing. But that means you're not going to get there. Because the failing is the information. Right?

Failing is the information. I see it almost as like putting things in my backpack. Oh, I've had so many journeys. I've studied companies, I've had ideas. I, you know, and I'm feeling that now. All of that information, everything I've ever put in my backpack, I have it all now with me. And now I'm unstoppable because I've done all.

Of it.

You know, don't, don't keep. You must be filling your backpack with good stuff, you know, and you only get that by taking steps.

And then at some point, you can let go of some. What's in there that you're no longer using.

Every now and again, you need to get rid of a little purging process.

Exactly.

Some purging here and there. But also, you don't know this in advance, what is going to be useful and what is going to be not useful. Then later on you can do that.

Love it. Love it. So I don't have much to add, except I would say this. So, you know, I'm drawing on being a therapist, having been a corporate executive and coaching and writing on Forbes. And so the top thing I see that holds women back is a bit we peel the onion. And what I see is many women don't actually believe they're worthy of it. So they'll look at people having what they think is rocking success. I want to write a book. I want to do a TED Talk, I want to have a children's series. I want to start an amazing entrepreneurial venture in London. And they question number one, do I even have what it takes? I don't have the training, I don't have the know how. I don't have the looks, I don't. Whatever they think, they don't have it. And I think so many think to themselves, why me? Why do I deserve this? So, you know, that's a deep thing. And the quick thing I want to throw out is, you know, I'm spending a lot of time looking at people's childhood and programming. Where did you get that message that you don't have enough? Where did you get that message that Women can't do that. And I have found that when you can identify the root of the very idea that holds you back, then it's easier to let it go. Purge or shift or revise it. But if you're not aware of any of the thoughts or mindsets that you have, you can't change them. So, you know, I guess I'd invite folks to look at the big dream that you have. Do you in your heart believe you're worthy of it? Because you are. We're all worthy of anything we can dream of. The question is, will you not? Are you worthy of it? Right.

I'd like to add to that. I'm a very confident person and I've come from a very emotionally secure place and I still have those thoughts. So if I come from that sort of place where I have all the support I need and all the support around me right now, I still have those thoughts. So it's very difficult, you know, even when you're a confident person, because I certainly have those thoughts. Every. No, I get, I have those thoughts. So it's, I think it's a very human thing as well.

Very human. You know, it prevents us from being a narcissist where we think we can rule the world and you know, without having any training or what's up whatsoever. So some part of it is healthy that, huh, do I have what it takes? But I think what we're trying to kind of revise is you may not have it in this moment, but you're worthy of having it. And then you have to go out and get the help or get the advice or get the training or whatever.

Exactly.

Love it. All right, next question. So this is a hard one. If we could offer just one strategy to help address that key block we're talking about that we see holding women back. Just one thing, what would it be? What would you say, Misa?

Well, I'm going to go back to building on what I just said. So I think all you need is commitment to one step, just one step. What are you going to do today, now, next half an hour, tomorrow, first thing in the morning. What is the positive habit you are going to create that will start shifting the reality whether it's a self belief that you need to tackle first or whether it is some other actual action points. And I have a lovely story I would like to share. So one of our first druvimoir members, absolutely wonderful girl, about 28 years old when she came to the first meeting, she was working for the London Stock Exchange. But she wasn't happy with her job and she was looking very plain. She had no makeup, she was kind of hunched over, very gray clothing. You know, you wouldn't have noticed her in the room. And when we did the exercises and then she spoke up about her vision, she said, I want to find a job that really works for me. I want to find a boyfriend. I want to, you know, I want to be happier, I want to be seen. And she concluded her vision for herself as I want to kill the librarian. So she felt that she was kind of, there was more to her and there really was more to her. So her personality kind of, she wanted that to flourish and come out. And she wasn't expressing it, not through her work, not through how she looked or anything. And her first action point, her first step was I will apply mascara every morning.

Wow.

Okay. It's as simple as that. Of course she went on to find a fantastic job, she found a boyfriend. All of these things happened later on. But it all started with just for her to remind herself every morning, I'm fantastic. I will come out of the shell and I will find the path that is right for me. So that's how it started with the mascara.

And you know what? Sounds small to one of us. It can be absolutely life changing for someone else. That act was, I'm going to commit to coming out, to being seen.

Exactly, exactly.

Okay. It's, you know, $5 mascara wand, but it's life changing.

Exactly.

That's inspiring.

I love it.

How about you, Avril? One thing, one step.

So I've said that I think it's really important to ask for help. And so the one strategy that I would suggest is to practice. Just practice asking for help all the time. Practice your pitch, practice talking about it, talk more and more about it. Because no one starts out good. You know, you have to start to get better and you have to practice to find your voice. And it takes a long, long time. You know, I've been working for seven years on feel brave and I'm only just now at tipping point of taking it to the whole next level. But I have practiced and practiced. I've practiced everything but asking for help. And I love the saying, if you knock on a door and it doesn't open, it's just not your door. You know, some people you ask and they don't help you. Not many people do that, to be honest. But when they have and I felt a bit, oh, I just, it's not my door.

So practice, not my door. Oh, that's simple. So, of course, everything I share is a lot of words. So I'm going to. I'm going to work hard to keep it down. But I do have a five step model for change that, you know, I take all my clients through, but I'm going to choose the one first step that I think is so many people are not doing, and that is step back for an empowered perspective of who you are. So here's what I mean by that. So often when we don't like our situation or we're coming off a toxic corporate job or we're trying to run away from no work life balance, and often our confidence is rocked and we are only looking. I say humans love to look only at the tip of their nose, what's at the tip of their nose. So they'll be looking at how they didn't succeed in a particular situation, but they've forgotten everything they've ever been before that. So to me, what we need to do before we do a thing is to step back and answer quite a number of important questions about every job we've ever had. What we loved, what we hated, what we never want to do again and what we want to bring forward and our standards of integrity. Those things now we're not going to negotiate on and our values and who do we admire and what are those dreams for our legacy in life? And I think when we step back and answer those questions, we start to see ourselves as so much more than just the outcome of this particular situation. We see what we've come into the world to be. We connect the dots. I think you and I, Ara, were talking about when we look back on who we were at 18 or 19 or 15 or 22, there are so many clues to who we are in this minute, but we don't know to look for those clues. Right. We don't know how to connect the dots if we haven't written the dots down.

Lisa tells me to stop saying connect the dots because phrases. Because I'm such a connector. I connect people. I connect the dots. I connect.

I like it. I like it. So there we go. Step back for an empowered perspective of who you really are and what you're here to do.

Yeah.

Would be the step I'd suggest. All right, so let's get a little personal for a minute and talk about in our own lives, what critical challenge, the one most critical or pivotal challenge we've overcome that's changed everything for us. Shall we? Should I give that a start?

Yep. Your turn.

All right, my turn. There are so many, but I think the one would have to be after the 18 year corporate career that ended really badly. Chronic illness, discrimination, sexual harassment. I was laid off in a way that just was so brutal to me that I kind of lost who I was. I mean, it was pretty depressing there for a while. And I have to say, I think I stayed stuck so long because just what we're talking about, I didn't really recognize that I deserved a happier life. I kind of thought, you know, I'm not the creative one. I'm the money bags. I'm the one who's bringing home the money and the 401k and the benefits. And finally when I snapped and I'm in my therapist's office weeping and he said, I know this looks like the worst crisis you've ever faced, but from where I sit, it's the first moment you can choose who you want to be. Who do you want to be? All I could think of talk about small little step was I want to help people. I want to be you. And we laughed from that conversation. I became a therapist and. But more than that, it was finally saying, I have to understand that I have co created these challenges. They're not just happening to me because they've happened over and over and over. And it was the accepting of the accountability of the pain. And I think once I did that and said, you know, let me pursue something that my heart makes, it makes sense to my heart. Even though I don't understand it financially, it was that that allowed me to get on this path of believing I could do something that would make a difference and loving it. But I can say it wasn't easy. It was a bumpy ride because I'd been so long programmed that I didn't really deserve it. And who am I to have this, all of these things we're talking about. But I would say that that's the one challenge that I overcame. Accepting that I did deserve it, that I'm capable of it, and, and letting go, that a beautiful life is for someone else. I think that would be it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Who's next? How about you, Misa? What's the biggest challenge for you?

Well, it was really when I. When I founded Drew a Woman, it absolutely changed everything. And it did the aha moment and the idea came from exactly what you described earlier. He was stepping back and doing what did I. Who was. What was that little girl? I didn't go to 18 because I was so troubled. I went back to when I was 12. That's where I found myself. I didn't find myself at 18 or 19 or 16. That was a disaster. I had to go all the way back to, you know, 1112. That was my. When I was really flourishing and I went really deep back to my values and what I used to stand for and obviously still stand for and what I love doing and what kind of reaction people have when they're around me and, you know, all of these things. And I wrote those down. And I still get the goosebumps when I think about it. I remember the sofa. I remember the moment. And it was just over four years ago in March in London. And once I had that idea for Driven Woman, I got so scared. I've never been so scared in my entire life, because I had. I found a really, really deep purpose, and everything was based on who I was. So I used to my wonderful corporate career, which I absolutely loved, and.

I.

Really flourished building a branding and design business, but I was developing other people's brands. And I had always dreamed about creating something that I believed in that really expressed all my values and what I stand for. But who was I to think that I could do that? Exactly those same thoughts that you guys mentioned. But then once this idea came out and I knew where it came from, I couldn't put it back in. I wanted so desperately to kind of put it back in the box. Like, don't come out. Don't come out. Oh, I was so scared because I had to do it. I knew had. I had absolutely no other option.

Wow.

And of course, I had all of these expectations that this is how it's gonna go. And I was very sort of corporate about it, and here is the growth, and da, da, da, this is what we're gonna do. None of that happened. It was very slow. It was painful. There was meetings when nobody showed up, but, you know, we just sat there in the room and decided, we are always gonna give our best, even if nobody shows up. And once I let go of those expectations of what's gonna happen and is it gonna be successful. And I just decided, okay, I've created this thing, and I'm just gonna be present here, and I'm gonna see what this thing, this group of women, we have one group, what the group is gonna give me, what can I give to the group, and what the group is gonna teach me, I let go of all expectations. I was simply just present. And then I was just taking step after step after step. And anytime I was thinking, oh, it's not going anywhere anywhere, it's Slow. I remember I had this thought in my mind, I am safe in my purpose. So I knew there was no. I could do nothing else. I would all. You know, I would always do this because what. What else would I do? I did many other things on the side because it was going very slow. And I'm a doer, so I had to fill my day. But also that thing taught me a lot. I wouldn't be where I am unless I went through that. But it was the scariest thing I've ever done in my entire life.

I think that there are so many lessons. I can't wait to join you in your. In your workshop or several in our retreat. Here's what I hear. Your sense of purpose. How did you put it?

What.

What words did you use? I'm safe in my purpose.

My purpose. Because I wanted to run out. It was too scary, was too painful. But I just kept hearing, I'm safe in my purpose.

And you know, it's crazy. I always say that nothing outside yourself is safe. Don't we all know it. The job we thought we were going to have forever, whatever. The real estate that we had that we thought would always grow, and now it's in the toilet. Nothing is exactly accept yourself except what you bring to the world. The other thing that I hear, what you're saying, and I so admire it. People say to me, what do you do with the fear? You do nothing but walk through the fear.

Exactly.

You're gonna be afraid, right? You're gonna be afraid. In fact, the thing that touches your purpose makes you even more afraid than anything else. Right? But you got to move, right? As you did.

I even made it even bigger because I did the exposure thing because that's the scary part. You know, you can be all happy and cozy with your purpose at home and tell nobody. Yeah, this is what I did. I took a selfie every time I ran a women's meeting. So every time I took a selfie, it took me hundred selfies. Okay. Hundred meetings. And that's. That's almost two years when I started really getting comfortable. So I kind of. I really kind of put myself out there and I said, listen, I don't care how scared I am. I'm just gonna do it and I'm gonna tell everybody.

Wow, that's so inspiring. Thank you for sharing that. Amazing. How about you, Avril? Last but not least.

So for me, I just changed my relationship with no. So I. In every business is hard, but what I'm trying to do is really hard. So Publishing children's books, writing in verse, all the things that they say don't do because it's really tough and it is. And I want to really make a global shift in children's mental health. I mean, I'm talking global. I'm talking Peppa Pig meets Tony Robbins. You know, why can't we do this? Why can't we have the impact of the sort of appeal of Peppa Pig or, you know, Sesame street, if you like, and Tony Robbins and the way that he can really effectively get strategies across and change programming very quickly. So why can't we do this for children? So I'm doing something that's really challenging, and I get a lot of no's. I got a big no today, but. And no one likes no's. But I don't care anymore. No's to me mean I'm closer to where I'm getting. And like I said before, I'm far more afraid of not living my dream than getting no's. And so I've just changed my relationship with no. You know, bring them on. I don't mind. I don't care. I don't mind. I don't care. You can't stop me. You can't stop me now. You cannot stop me. I mean, and it's hard to get to that point, but once you get there, it's super powerful and feels really good.

And don't you. Do you find this. You know, I'm working on book number two, and there have been a lot of no's, and we're hoping for a yes coming soon. But, you know, I don't believe I'm being a Pollyanna when I say this. Every no I've gotten has been the right no. In other words, in that moment, I thought, oh, I've got to have that publisher or I've got to do that TED Talk. It's only because we have such a limited blinder view. Later I realized, thank God, the answer was no.

Pollyanna lived a very nice life. And one thing that I've read about and heard about, that I know I have, and that you have to have in this type of journey is you have to have a little bit of delusional optimism because it helps get you through. And I certainly have that. And. But looking back now, there are things and people that came along where I thought on the journey, ah, I'm so disappointed that didn't work out. But it's always led to something really great in a really roundabout way. So, again, if you've got your really clear vision. And it's like being in a boat or a plane. They never actually fly in a straight line, you're constantly tacking and realigning, coming back. And as long as your vision is strong, then you will get there. But the more you change your relationship with no and see it again. Talking about failure, not as a failure, but as a step towards the right direction or the step towards your. Yes. And so many entrepreneurs that are successful talk about this. I've seen this so many times. There's very successful digital gaming companies that constantly have at least 10 games out there for the one that will work. And I could say Weekly I have 10 pitches out there or 10 requests to do something and maybe one will come off. It's probably more than that. It's probably about 50 and I might get one. But that's how, that's how they're the numbers. That's how it works. And the more you get over that, the closer you'll get.

What amazing advice. Well, everyone, I can't thank you enough for taking the time. I can tell how much fun we're gonna have.

Oh, it's gonna be amazing.

It's gonna be all of this information and wisdom downloaded for everyone for four straight days and fun. We're gonna have fun as well. If we don't have fun, if we don't restore ourselves, if we don't love our love nature, love our bodies, go swimming, have a drink. It can't be all work in life, can it? We have to know how to.

Going back to the point of asking for help between at least US3 and Kaiser and Charlotte, the networks between us all are really phenomenal. So to, to come along and not only experience the time and for us all to share our experiences. And I'm really excited about, you know, seeing what you guys have to say and your sessions as well is that there's just so many great networks that are going to open up from our own existing networks and from those that are joining us already. So it's going to be really great. And we still have a couple of spaces left, so hopefully there's amazing people.

Coming all over the world.

Yeah, it's.

It's incredible. From Australia, Switzerland, us, everywhere.

That is something that's so precious to me just right now in the US where we're getting so you know what I'm talking about. I am so excited that it just can be a global community because we're all striving for the same to live a rewarding, fulfilling, joyful life. Right? So Forget the country boundaries, the fact that we can all come together and share our different perspectives because we are different culturally, certainly. It's just miraculous. I can't wait. All right, go ahead.

And I wouldn't do anything unless it was lots of fun.

Good. I know that we're all going to have a ball. So for follow up, we will link to our bios and to Light from the dawn, the website there. We'll give you some contact information if you want a little more information about travel, about Mykonos, which is magical. And we really hope to see you. If not there, we hope to join you there.

But can I just say, please, if you do want to come, stop me losing sleep over flights. You got to get flights booked now, so do it. Otherwise, I'm getting very paranoid about everyone booking their flights because it's a very popular place and they don't usually take group bookings. So it's quite special that we can go there. So we need to get flights in.

Awesome. All right, everyone, thank you so much. Avril and Misa, so wonderful to be with you. Cannot wait till September. And thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Kathy.

Bye.