What is Feminism and Why So Many Men and Women Still Hate It

This is Kathy Caprino and welcome to my Facebook live, Brave Up Tuesdays. I'm going to wait a few minutes and make sure that people are streaming in because last week I recorded a half hour and it said live up there at the top. And ah, when I'm done, it wasn't live at all. I love it. So I'm going to wait one minute, make sure we're all here at the top of the hour. All right, awesome. Beautiful. So is it, is it noon yet? One more minute, one more minute. So let's wait a second here. Yeah, there we go. Somebody's here. So I know it's live. Yay. Thank you so much. So again, I'm Kathy Caprino and here's what we're talking about today. What is feminism and why do so many men and women hate it? So let me just start out for a minute about why I'm talking about this and the space I want to create about this. So first of all, I want you to know I am not, you know, an academic on feminism. Oh, good. Awesome. I think people are coming in. So what I'm sharing is experience from my 30 years, in my 56 years as a woman, my 32 years working in the corporate world, you know, and I rose to level of vice president and I saw so much regarding gender bias and gender issues and I, you know, guilty of, not guilty of, I experienced my own gender bias. So this is not making anyone right or wrong. This is just sharing then 11 years as a therapist and as a woman's career success coach and leadership trainer and in my writing on forbes and my three other blogs and, you know, with 25 million views in total, you're hearing from a lot of people. And finally, in my experience, being quoted in other media channels and I want to talk about one in particular that just happened that was pretty wild regarding gender issues. So I am sharing my personal perspective about feminism, about equality, about gender roles, about gender bias. So I want you to know. Hey there, Samantha. Is that it? Thank you for being here. So I want you to know it's coming from my personal perspective and what I want to do here is create a very safe space so that, number one, we have the ability, all of us listening, to gain greater awareness of how we feel and think about these issues. Number two, that we start to gain more ability and self confidence to understand what we believe, but let other people believe what they wish to believe. So this is not a place where we're going to make each other wrong for what we believe. That is antithetical to what I'm trying to do here. So when I get to your comments and questions, please pose them in a way that's respectful to everyone here, because this is also going to be posted on LinkedIn and on my YouTube channel, Kathy Caprino. So it's respectful, it's compassionate, it's empathic, but it's going to be honest. The third reason I'm talking about this and the third thing I want to do here is I read a lot about feminism and tomorrow is International Women's Day. So in honor of that, what I want to do is actually speak more frankly than I see on the media. In the media. I read a lot of articles about this, but I don't think we're really talking as brutally honestly as we need to about these issues. And as long as we're not telling the truth, as long as we're too embarrassed to share what we really think, as long as we are hiding from ourselves about the truth of what we believe, we will get nowhere. We will not evolve as a species, as a civilization, if we're not allowed to even be honest with ourselves about what we really think. That's what I'm trying to do here. In just 30 minutes. Woohoo. Alright, so what is feminism and why do so many men and women hate it? Let me tell you my take here. If you look feminism up in the dictionary, you're going to see these. The advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. The theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes. The belief that men and women should have equal rights and equal opportunities. And finally, the doctrine advocating social, political and all other rights of women to be equal to those of men. All right, what are we talking about? We're talking about. Hello, Prolate. Hi. So glad you're here. So we're talking about the idea that women and men should have equal rights and equal opportunities. So the very first thing I want to ask here is this. Take a deep breath and think about what you believe. Do you believe that men and women should have equal rights? So I don't want to use the word feminism for a minute. I just want to talk about that. Do you believe I will take it a step farther that every human being on this planet deserves to have equal rights. So I'll share. Personally, I completely believe that. I don't care what color, what race, what religion, what gender, what your sexual identity is or your sexual preference matters not to me. Every human being on this planet deserves access to Equal rights and equal opportunities. So the very first thing I want you to tell me here, anyone who's here, is when you think deeply about it, do you think that that's. Do you not believe that? So what I'd love you to do, and again, this is not to make you right or wrong or me right or wrong. What a waste of time. It's to help us gain awareness. So, you know, in my work as a therapist, one thing that blew my socks off was understanding about communication and about what's underneath communication, meta communication and metamesages. And also understanding that for every belief we hold, there's a thousand beliefs behind it and some of them are unconscious. So what I'm trying to do here is make these things conscious. So if you don't believe that every human being on the planet deserves equal rights, I'd love to hear, and I hope you'll share why, who deserves equal rights and who doesn't? And I'm 100% sure that when you begin to really be honest and say, when you say to yourself, actually, I think, you know, whites deserve this kind of rights, or men deserve these kinds of rights, or this religious group, I really believe that what's underneath that are layers of beliefs and traditions that, that we've been indoctrinated with. And I use that word not to scare anybody, but anytime you're in a tribe, and we're all in tribes, our family's a tribe, our religion's a tribe, our spiritual group is a tribe, our church is a tribe, our school is a tribe. When we're in a tribe, what the human tendency is, is to fit in. So without knowing it, we begin to assimilate the beliefs of the tribe. So if you, and you know, there's a million ways to look at this. They say you're the average of the three people you spend the most time with. So if you're around people, for instance, who believe that being truly feminine means you're staying in the home and you're raising the children and you're not working, then those beliefs will get in and often you will assimilate to those beliefs. So what's really important is to look at what are the beliefs behind your potential belief that all people should not access equal rights. I'd love your thoughts. I'd love you to type in. Yeah, frankly, I don't believe in equal rights. I think the vast majority of people will say, I do believe in equal rights. It's in the manifesting of it that's the problem. So the next Thing I want to talk about is what people really think about feminism. So if you. If. And I'm feeling like I want to do a poll on this, if you were to ask people, a thousand people on the street, and of course where you're doing it would vary in terms of what comes out. But what is feminism? People might give you, I think it's equal rights for women, but what they really feel feminism is, is something very different. So let me talk about that. I gotta give this example. I was featured a few weeks ago in Bride magazine about the idea of women changing their name when they get married. And, you know, I was asked my thoughts on that. So I want to share this because I think this is incredibly revealing about the issue of gender roles, equality, etc. So I said, number one, it's an incredibly personal decision. No one's right, no one's wrong. Make the decision on your own. For me and for many women, I did not want to change my name when I married one because I'm proud of the lineage of Caprino 2. My dad, that name had only two girls as children, and if we didn't carry that name, that name, you know, would have ended there. Thirdly, I had a long career and I was identified and known as Caprino. And back then, I didn't have a brand, I didn't have a business like I do now, which is Kathy Caprino.com but that's who I am. And never for a minute did I think that didn't solidify the marriage, that that was disrespectful to my husband. And we talked about it and he said, I'm completely fine, whatever you want to do. Truly he was. So I operated on my own beliefs. But what blew me away was everyone's responses on LinkedIn. It went viral. Go check that out on my profile page and what people said. So some men said women are dependent on men. They. It was basically, you know, women need to be obedient, women are weaker. One woman said, I would never disrespect my husband by not taking his name. Another person said, women were created to support men. One person brought up why names have been changed, why women change their names. You know, historically, which was fascinating, but this is what I want to share about this. Every person's comments were based on beliefs. So the woman who said, I would never want to disrespect my husband by not taking his name, I would like to ask this, and I'm going to bring up a concept. Flip it to test it. Flip it to test it. Now that's been talked about in the media. But I want to point to my dear friend Kristen Pressner did a wonderful TEDx talk. I am biased. Are you? And it was incredible. 8 minutes. Go watch it. I am biased. Are you? Kristin Pressner. And she talks about that she's a high, high level HR leader, international HR leader, responsible for thousands of people. And that at one point in time, both a senior man and a senior woman came to her and asked to be considered for a raise. And she was aware in her thinking about it that there was a bit of bias against the woman. She thought her knee jerk reaction was, if I'm getting it right that the man's the primary breadwinner, the woman probably isn't. Maybe she doesn't deserve the raise or need the raise. Thankfully, she snapped out of it and realized, wow, that's a bias and it's a biased against someone who looks like me and is me. In fact, she is a primary breadwinner. So the fact that she herself a primary breadwinner leader, a woman could actually have a biased, again, bias against a woman in terms of getting a promotion or a raise blew her mind away. And she quoted a Twitter individual Twitter account, man who has it all, who. And we don't know if it's a man or a woman. I believe who flips things, flips common sayings that we hear every day. And where it's about a woman, he flips it or she flips it to talk about it being a man. And when you read this, you see how ridiculous so many of our assumptions are and how biased and how one sided for both men and women. But I bring it up because when this woman said, I would never disrespect my husband by not taking his name, I said, I would like you to flip that and test it. So would your husband say, I would never disrespect my wife and not take her name. We have to understand that our beliefs are based on traditions and sometimes these traditions no longer serve the evolution of our civilization. I'm not saying this woman's beliefs don't. I'm saying what you don't want to do is simply operate from a knee jerk perspective because you're operating out of thousands of years of tradition that maybe don't serve us well any longer. And the assumptions that were on this feed, the comments were so much about how women need to give up their identity to serve the marriage. I really have to, I really have to challenge that now. I know that shaking up Tradition is hard, and I know it leaves everybody very confused and very fearful. But it's time that we stop taking all of these traditions for granted and start thinking about, do they work for me? So I don't believe I obey my husband. I don't believe obedience is in the mix. Now, I understand there's some religious beliefs and doctrine that says obedience is. It's up to you to decide. But what's really important is you flip it to test it. So if someone says something about you that smacks of discrimination, flip it in your mind and put man in front of woman instead of woman and see if does it make sense? All right, so what do I hear about when people really talk about feminism? What they don't like. So let me tell you this. Research studies have shown, and I talked about this in my Forbes post, gender bias is real, that when women are forceful in our society, assertive and forceful, they are punished. When women are forceful, forceful and assertive, they are punished. The research studies bear it out. One of the research studies I shared, for instance, that was done by the behavioral science guys, David Maxwell and Joseph Grenny. They filmed a woman actress in a boardroom, in a meeting room being forceful, saying she did not agree with the direction that the group was proposing, and she did it forcefully. Then they recorded a man saying the exact same words and being forceful. They showed it to a few thousand people, men and women. And what happened is the woman was perceived so much more negatively. Her perceived competency dropped dramatically, and her perceived value, how much she should be paid was dropped dramatically. Now his, the man's dropped a little bit. So it shows we don't really like forceful anything, but when women do it, they are punished. So when you look at the feminist movement, which again, I need to repeat 50 times, it's about the equality of the sexes. Oh, before I go there, I do want to say this. A lot of women will write me and men, no, I don't believe in equality because women's bodies are not the same. Women are, in general, physically weaker. So here's the deal. Equality has nothing to do with are you physically weaker. Equality is not sameness. No one's disputing that women's bodies are not the same as men's bodies. No one is saying women are the same. It would be like to me, saying women's bodies are different so they aren't equal is like saying, let's say you have two children in a classroom, and every child, of course, should have equal access to the teacher, equal access to the computers equal access to the resources. But one boy weighs less and is weaker. His muscles aren't as strong. He shouldn't get as much access to all the resources. When you put it that way, it's ridiculous, right? It's not about the physicality. It's not about sameness. It's about equality. Equal in terms of access to rights and opportunities. Okay, so where was I? Where was I? Where was I going back to what we really believe about feminism. Sorry, I forget where I was, but let's start there. So many people. Ah, Samantha, it's not the ability is equal. It's just the right to have the chance to be equal. Well, I'm even going to say equal is not the word, Samantha. I love it. But in my view, it's not equal, it's equality. They're two different words. Equal opportunities. Not that we as human beings are equal. We're equal in. I feel we should be equal in accessing rights and opportunities. It's splitting hairs. But when people go, well, we're not the same, they're equating the word the same with equal. And I think that's a mistake. All right, so when people talk about why I don't believe in feminism, they say women will say things like, women, I've heard this. Women are weaker. I heard, you know, women aren't as good in. Of course, we hear this all the time in math, in science. They're not as intellectual. Women are supposed to cater to men's needs. Women are wired to do certain things better than men, and men are wired to do certain things. Now, of course, we all know women are, right now the only. The only gender that actually can carry a child and deliver a child. But I will hear women talking about that. I will hear men saying, men and women saying, here's why I don't believe in feminism. Feminists are angry. Feminists are haranguing. Feminists are bra burning crazies. Feminists want to take over. Feminists want all the power. What else? Feminists want everything changed. Feminists don't believe in tradition. Feminists make it hard on men. Feminists hate men. So what I'm trying to point out here is how feminism as a movement has been enacted is not the same thing as feminism. So in other words, I feel that anyone on the planet who believes in equal rights for men and women and all human beings is a feminist. But even women don't want to call themselves that because they're afraid people will think they're man haters. They want to turn Tradition and religion upside down, that they want total control. So in talking to a lot of people, you know, I've heard from hundreds of thousands of people, thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing. You know anyone here, if, if you like something I've said, I'd love a thumbs up. So I can see that. And I know I've hit a nerve. Let me know, Let me know when I talk to men who I respect and admire, intelligent, intellectual men. If I ask them, if I ask them, what do you think is at the heart your potential fears around feminism? And these are smart, educated, educated men. They will admit that they're afraid that more power for women will shake up their marriage, shake up their position in their relationship, perhaps help make them lose access to jobs, even maybe make less money. So the concept they have some of these people, not all men, the men I've spoken to who have been honest with me, who I really give a lot of credit and applaud, their belief is if somebody has more power and it's not me, I'm going to have less. So I think that's called a zero sum game. Right. Gain. So their idea is the more power women have, the less power men have. And I believe that is mistaken. I believe that when we lift up everyone, yes, there'll be a shift. There are shifts. Look at what's going on with gender roles and gender identity. That gender is so much more fluid now. How my kids, 19 and 22, talk about gender and what they see in their lives with their friends, so different from what I grew up with at 56. And you know what? I applaud it. I am not a traditionalist. I love it because here's what I love about it. And again, I'm not making. I'm not trying to say you need to love it, but let's just open our eyes for a minute about how what we really believe. I love it because when there are tight, rigid gender roles, there are people outside of it who don't fit and they feel incredibly disenfranchised from life and they want to kill themselves. They want to. They feel so isolated. And I know, you know, let me really be honest. When I moved here into my town in Connecticut, I was walking down the street one of the first weeks and a woman ran up to me who was also taking a walk, and she said, are you Kathy Caprino? And she hugged me. And she was a lawyer. So this is 15 years ago. And she said, I'm so glad to meet you. There are no working women that I've met here in this town. And she felt so isolated and so unable to make friends because people judge and they did. People would say to me, wow, you work full time. I would never want someone else to raise my children. This is what I really object to, people projecting their negative beliefs on other women. So let me talk about this now too. Emma Watson right now is in, in the news a lot. She is the UN Women's goodwill ambassador, I think is her title. And we all know where she just Beauty and the Beast is coming out. She's wonderful actress from Harry Potter series. I really respect her and I love her UN speech. Go look that up on Google, on YouTube. I love what she has to say. So she's in Vanity Fair this, this month and she's one of the pictures, exposes some of her breasts, not the whole thing. Some people have flipped their lid and they've said, how is this feminist? And then they also bring up, apparently five years ago, she, she made a comment about Beyonce's sexuality. And I guess it, you know, Emma Watson was saying something to the effect. Don't quote me. That she felt Beyonce was using her sexuality in a way that was not, you know, in line with feminist views. So now people are saying, oh, so five years later you're doing the same thing. But Emma Watson is saying, I'm so floored. What do my boobs. She used another word, have to do with feminism? So here's another thing that's going on. Women are saying that you can't be a feminist if you're showing your breasts. Well, I want you to flip that to test it. Do we say, you know, a man, a man isn't supporting equal rights if he bares his breasts. It makes no sense. I feel that what feminist espouses at its root is choice. It's choice that every woman and every man and everybody who identifies with anything, any gender, any, you know, non binary or not, that we have to have choice. That's what an evolved civilization does. If not, we're stuck in traditions and stuck in roles and stuck in views and stuck and stuck in behaviors that don't fit us. So Emma's saying, my choice to show some of my breasts was an artistic choice. It has nothing to do with my views about the equality of men and women. So I'd love you to think about. Oh, yeah, I know what I was talking about before. I'd love you to think about all your views around this. If women are very sexual, does that mean they're not feminists? If women are showing their bodies in a beautiful way. Is that not feminism? What I was talking about, about assertive women before is this. One of the challenges is the movement towards equality for men and women has been in great part taken up by forceful women. So if our society punishes forcible women, then the women who are supporting the movement of feminism are going to be punished. So it's like a double whammy. We're not moving forward. We're not moving forward. If we can still have these debates. If a woman can say, you know, I think it's wrong for another woman to keep her name when she marries, don't say it like that. Say for me, my belief is that it respects my husband to take his name. But don't make other women wrong for not believing what you believe. It's time for that to stop. And I would ask you also to think about as deeply as you can, as honestly as you can, what do you think being a woman is? What do you think being a man is? What do you think behavior that is masculine is? What do you think behavior that is feminine is? What do you believe about equal rights? And if you don't believe everybody on the planet deserves equal rights, who do you believe deserves access to rights and who doesn't? And I'm going to ask you this. Why do you believe that? And I'm also going to ask you, what are your beliefs and experiences in childhood with your tribe, your family that has contributed? So I'm really wanting you to separate out what you believe from why you believe it. And I think your eyes are going to be opened. You're going to see that. Wow, I can't believe that. I never really challenged that idea. And I think I didn't challenge it because it was a given in my family. Like, let me give you a final example. And then I have to end soon. My dad, who passed away three, almost four years ago, who I adored, he was a man's man. And, you know, he died at 92. So he was from the generation of World War II and the Depression, and he was a Sicilian of ancestry. And he believed that women belonged in the home, not working. And he believed that because he believed that women were the better nurturers, so that children would thrive more when the wife, the woman, was home. That's what my dad believed. When I popped out and became, you know, had different views, he never made me feel less than. He never put me down. He never outwardly said, I think you're wrong. But I could see that there was a Bit of confusion for him about what a woman really should do. But he never held me back and he never said, you're going to hurt your children by working the whole time that they were growing up, Which I did. And my God, they're amazing children. And so, you know, I think that he's a role model for having a set of beliefs, but not projecting them on his own children. Not saying, wow, you have to stay home because you won't be a good mother or you won't be a feminine woman. That, to me, is a wonderful parent who has a set of beliefs, who understands where these beliefs come from, but don't necessarily project them in a negative way, in a limiting way onto the children, because this is what I believe. Life is long and our civilization needs to grow and evolve. And to do that, you have to understand why you believe what you believe. And are those beliefs allowing you to grow in the most expansive way possible? And are they allowing everyone around you to be who they really want to be in the world? To me, that's what feminism is. It's supporting the idea that not only women, but everyone on the planet deserves the right to become who they wish to be. So, anybody got any questions? Anybody got comments? What else didn't I cover about this? What feminism is, why we don't believe in it, why we hate it. We hate it because we're afraid. We hate it because we think it's uprooting traditions, that it's changing gender roles. And to do that is a bad thing because it goes against what we believe is right. Right. It challenges our religious beliefs, it challenges our social identity. It challenges so much. And we're afraid. That's why men and women hate it. So I ask you, can you separate how you're seeing it manifest in the world to what the idea is at its core, that men and women should have equal rights and equal opportunities every minute of every day. I hope that's helpful. I'm going to post this again on Facebook, here on LinkedIn, on my YouTube channel. Please send me your comments. I know this is going to engender, I hope a lot of discussion, a lot of debate. A lot of people aren't going to agree with a word I said. Bring it on, but bring it on. Respectfully. Let's see if we can do this and have a discussion that's respectful and compassionate and empathic understanding and not hateful and negative and fear, fear based. Let's see if we can do that. Because if we can do that, then we pave the way for more people in our lives to do that. Alrighty. Thank you so much, everybody. Really grateful that you're here, and I hope you found that helpful. Bye. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Bye. Bye.