Success Is Motivating Others to Their Own Success with Kevin Mulrane

Foreign.

Welcome to the live Better Sell Better podcast with your host Kevin Dorsey of Inside Sales Excellence, the number one Patreon group and YouTube channel for tech sellers and tech sales leaders where we dive in deep for tactical advice on how to book more meetings, close more deals faster and lead sales teams to success. But we don't stop there. We also focus on the person in salesperson. We talk about mindset goals, time management and so much more. So thank you for listening and if you're interested, head on over to patreon.com InsideSalesExcellence now with that, grab a notepad, get ready and let's dive into the good stuff. How much of your workday is actually spent selling? Like be honest, I won't tell. This could stay between us because between internal meetings, back and forth emails updating salesforce salespeople dually found nearly half of a rep's day is spent on anything but sales. But what really gets me is how much this hurts sellers. All those distractions are killing rep earning potential by 66% and quarterly revenue by 38%. It is a lose lose. That is why top performing sales teams like Asana, Figma and Intercorp use duly the connected workspace that automates all the CRM work reps hate and routes deals to close wins faster with guided playbooks and call templates, giving sales leaders the clean, accurate data they need to run a winning sales process without the wasted admin hours. Get a lifeline for your sales pipeline. Visit Dooley AI to learn more and try it free. And with that, let's get back to the show. What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the live Better Sell Better podcast. This is your host Kevin Dorsey, AKA kd. And today we're going to talk about building a mindset. How to actually build the right mindset necessary to not only have a long lasting career in sales, but also a fulfilling career in sales. Because there is a huge difference between lasting and enjoying, lasting and loving. And I truly believe that if you have the right mindset, you can love sales and sales will love you right back. And everyone talks mindset. But today we're going to talk about how to build a mindset that works. And I'm so pumped to have Kevin Mulrein with me on the show today. He's the CRO at onramp. He's the podcast host of Addicted to Growth. And there might be an addiction problem here on how much he's been growing because he's been in the game 4 to 5 time VP of Sales, Sales Executive Sales, trainer, recruiter. Like he's done it all and still having some fun. So we're going to talk about his mindset, how he's built it, what's got him here, and I cannot wait to dive in. Kevin, my man, welcome to the show.

Appreciate you, man. I'm fired up. This is a topic I love. It's a topic that I think is near and dear to my heart. It's why, to your point, it's why I'm still in it after 15 years and absolutely loving it, man. So excited to dive in.

Let's go, baby. So you know why people love this show, right? Like, we get into the tactics, no backstories, none of that. And so what I think is important from the onset is like, when you say mindset, what do you mean?

Right.

So I think it's a word that gets thrown out a lot. But when you talk about having the right mindset for sales and success and fulfillment, what does mindset mean to you?

Yeah, I think it's, it's. It's what's between the ears, right? It's. It's how you approach your day, it's how you approach your month. It's really how you just approach the entire sales career, sales path, right. I think what, what's unique about sales and what could be tough, there's rejection, there's volatility. So if you, if you go after with the right mindset, like you said, it can be very fulfilling, but it can be long lasting. I fell into sales. I built a really exciting and long lasting career in sales. And I attribute that 100% to my mindset. I didn't really know what I was getting into. So I think having the right mindset, the way you approach your day, your clients, your teammates, everything can really go a long way for you.

And so let's go a layer deeper there, right? When you say the right mindset, what are some of the things that you think make up the right mindset? What are some of those layers below it?

Yeah, it's a great question. So I think, you know, first and foremost for me, I. I was not the, quote unquote, natural salesperson, right. Like, I was fearful of cold calling. I think the first cold call I made, the person picked up the phone and I hung up. Right. Like that kind of stuff. So I think the first thing that I really learned was I had to embrace uncomfortable situations. I had to make uncomfortable things feel comfortable. And so, you know, you have to seek it. And I started to try and apply things in My personal life, things I did maybe as an athlete that I could then apply to my professional life. And really chasing, right. Like, how do I embrace and chase the discomfort, chase the pain? Because that's when the growth happens. And so, you know, I always love to. You know, it's like when you do really, really hard things, like making cold calls aren't that difficult, right? So you kind of start small, you build habits. You know, you kind of remind yourself, like, the path and the growth of the experience, Right. I always try to, like, look back and reflect, like, wow, look at the growth. Like, the discomfort is worth the pain. So, you know, that kind of stuff I definitely try to do. But the discomfort piece for me was a big part, and it's one of the things why I almost fell out of sales, and I'm really happy I did.

And so when you talk about, like, chasing the pain or seeking discomfort, like, what were some of those things that you did? Right? Like, was that exercise? Was it, you know, just going up and getting rejected at the bars? Like, what. What did you do to kind of train yourself a little bit in this? You know, getting comfortable with being uncomfortable? Because even that phrase, right.

It's.

It was one of my. What's the word I'm looking for? Was one of my mantras for a long time. But it's also an oxymoron. How can you get comfortable with the uncomfortable? Uncomfortable is the lack of comfort. So how do you actually blend that?

Yeah, so I think for. For me, like I said, I try to tie a lot of the things I did in my personal life into my professional life. And so being an athlete, fitness, those are things that are just. I'm naturally passionate about part of my daily life. So, like, when I was working out, I would chase the pain and it hurt. But you know that this is where growth happens. And so I was able to take that and then say, okay, well, in my sales career, when I'm first starting off, what are those uncomfortable things for me? And one cold calling strangers, right? Really? Really. I was the guy that was, like, hiding under his desk with the headset on. Like, it was terrible. Objections, right? I would get objections, and I would just be like, yeah, I'll send you the email. And I get off the phone. Then I have my manager, like, over my shoulder, right? So I quickly identified those uncomfortable situations for me and identified them as, these are growth opportunities. Right? So I kind of. I understood if I get good at this, this is the positive outcome that I can get from it. So I think it's just identifying that. And then it's practice, man. Right. It's finding really good mentors. It's listening to your calls. But you know, I would just, I'd get those objections and I'd just be like in my head, like mental reps and things. So it's a bit of practice. And then once you get that opportunity to kind of perform, if you will, Right. You get the objection. I'm like, all right, I'm ready for it. Right. I knew they were going to throw this pitch. I got it. So that was some of the things I used to do just to kind of help me create those parallels. But then again, like, just practice and get ready for it.

And I'm glad you brought that part up too, because as you're talking, I'm thinking through like, you know, similarly, I was not a natural salesperson. I'm an introvert more than I'm an extrovert. Anyone that says they like making cold calls is either a lying or a psychopath. You can pick which one of those is worse.

Right.

I hated it too. But you said something that, you know, I did as well, which I like connected the dots. Because what I did love to do is I loved to demo, I love to run a demo and run the sales cycle. And I was able to connect the dots of like, even though I hate cold calling, cold calling is what lets me run demos. And I was able to kind of. I think you said like parallel, like Bridget, like it's, how did you learn that? Or more importantly, guess what did you connect to? You said growth, right? Like, if I do these things, I'll grow. How did you connect those dots or what did growth mean to you where it was worth going through that pain?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, at first, my, my first sales job was one of those super aggressive 150 person sales floors. Like you couldn't hide. And so the environment for me was if you don't perform, you're fired. Right. And in those environments you learn a lot about potentially what not to do as a leader or as a manager. But to me it was like, I can't fail. Right. There was this kind of fight or flight type mentality that kicked in. But I think that was really kind of the first one. And I questioned sales every day for six months. I would call my mom, be like, mom, I don't know if this is for me. I think I made a mistake. And then I saw that first commission check. I was like, oh, right. So that was kind of the first parallel I made. And that was one of those things was like, all right, keep on chasing this. Keep fighting through. But then when I got good at it, and this is where I kind of hit a really cool part of my career where I got good at it and I started helping out others, right? There'd be other new salespeople. I'd be like, ooh, I used to be terrible at that. Try this, right? I started doing little coaching moments, and then I saw other people getting really good, too, and I was like, whoa. Now, this is, like, personally gratifying feeling for me where I'm fired up because you just closed your first deal and I kind of helped and coach you through those moments. I don't even care about my pipeline. Like, I'm, you know, like, I'm getting after it. And of course, like, you're excited when you close a deal. But I was getting super hyped, and it was really rewarding for me to see others succeed when I was just kind of helping coaching.

And I like this because it kind of segues where I wanted to go next a little bit is how do you try to help instill this in your teams? Because it's one thing, right? Like, I can even hear your dreams. Like, dude, I was afraid of losing my job. Like, that's what motivated me early on. But I don't know you that well, but my assumption is you are not a lead by fear person. So how do you help develop this type of mindset with your team without it being, you know, this well, if you don't perform, you're going to lose your job. So that's your motivation. Like, how do you help your team develop this mindset?

Yeah, it's a good question. I think. I really like to get to understand people's whys, right? Whether. And again, this is whether it's you're working with people in the gym trying to achieve goals, you're working with somebody in sales. There's a reason someone wants to go through the pain to get a certain outcome. And it's deeper than I just want to go make X amount of money. Right, well, what does that allow you to do? Right? If you can achieve this goal, what does that mean for you? What does it mean for your family? What's your North Star? What are your values? So I think it's really trying to get into the specific motivations of each individual, but then trying to go those, like, layers deeper and like, okay, well, if. If this happens, if you achieve this goal, what does that mean? Right? What does it Allow you to then do. And then they start really, like, kind of like visualizing it and seeing it and believing in it, buying into it. So now it's like, okay. And I think it's talking through all of it, right? Like, you're going to have to go through these really tough things, some of this pain, this discomfort, but we got to grow. And the growth creates this opportunity, creates this outcome, and then this becomes your reality. So I like, really kind of walking through those paths of understanding people's whys and what their values are, and it's great.

You asked. One of my favorite questions that I work on with my managers and my people is like, you can ask people what their goals are. You ask that magic question, like, well, what changes if you accomplish it? Like, what will that let you do? How will you feel? Because, you know, especially in sales, and a lot of managers are very lazy here. They say, what motivates you? And the sales rep says, money, right, y'? All? To all my sales leaders listening right now. If money truly motivated everyone, you know what? We wouldn't need coaches, managers, or quotas. If money motivated people, they would just do what it took to make as much money as possible, right? It doesn't motivate most people. It's like, what they can do with it, what they hope it will do for them, is so important. And so then, if you think about that part of it, I guess, do you make sure your managers are asking that of their people? Like, how do you roll that out across a team? That's also a big difference. You might know how to do this, but you've been a vp. You've managed managers before. How do you make sure your managers are having these convers?

I think it's. It's doing it with them, right? Like, what I've found is actually, it's not just about my managers doing it with their teams. It's about me doing it with every level. And if I can go with the manager, I can go through this exercise, right? And now I know exactly how to motivate them, how. How to make them feel fulfilled and passionate, excited to be where they are and what they're doing that I can say, okay, cool. Like, here's the playbook, right? And then I can kind of coach them through the exercise that we did. I. I've done a really cool exercise with. With my team. It's like a big, big vision board. I'm like, okay. And I literally. I whiteboard this out. I'm like, here we are today. Fast forward five years. Who do you want to become? What do you want to get out of this? Right? And, and I think it's, I think it's really, I think a lot more. Any employee should look at their organization almost as a platform and like, what is the company to help you become, right? If you walk out of here in five years, who are you today? So I've done this where I visualize and it's a whiteboard and I take pictures and I share it. So it's not just like, it's a really interactive session that, you know, you can quickly pick up on and then execute. But for first time managers, I'll sit in there, I'll help them, I'll coach them along. Like it's, you know, I never want to throw somebody out on an island by themselves, but I think actually doing, doing the exercise with them themselves, they can kind of then feel it like, oh, wow, this is different.

I like that, I like that a lot. And now I actually want to backtrack here real quick because I bet you there's people listening that can emphasize with where you were and when you started, right? Like hiding under the desk, hanging up on the prospect, right? Like that shaky, uneasy feeling like, like, how did you get through that? Right? Like what, like how did you actually get through that? Because I do think people hear, get some of the advice, right? It's like you just got to have a better mindset. Let's go back there real quick. Like what, what drove you through that time and maybe even how long did that take? Because I also think people think it's going to feel that way forever when there's just a period of time. So like, how did you actually like kind of get through it? What were the mental tricks or like the things that you went through and how long did it take till you started to feel good? Because you said, he's like, once I was good. Well, cool. That's there. What was that process to get there?

Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's. I'll tell you, it's not an overnight success type thing. And it takes a lot of work, a lot of dedication and I would say for me to really get into a good group, it probably took a couple of years to be really honest with you. I think from there though, like, I think one of the things I really focused on and I think a lot of salespeople feel is they feel like they're bothering people, right? Like there's a cold call, there's an email, oh, I'm bothering This person. Right. And so I kind of had to flip my mindset and really get to a place where I'm like, no, no, no. Like, they should be excited and almost happy to hear from you. Right? And I. The way I started breaking that down was I got to fall in love with my product, and I got to be passionate about the product that I'm selling, the problems that we're solving and who I'm solving and for. And not everybody has that. I didn't. I didn't have it for a long time. So what I had to then do was have that quick second for me, you know? So that was a big one for me, for sure.

And I love that. Right. Like, the. It's. And you mentioned two different types of win. There's listening to your own wins, but paying attention to the customer wins. I did the exact same thing with my team. This was like, right as we're kind of coming out of the pandemic and, like, you know, morale was low. And also, like, look, I want y' all to go watch and listen to a testimonial a day and, like, remind yourself of, like, what it is we actually do here and the help that it does provide to our prospects and all those things that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't reached out. But then those personal wins, like, you got, you hear yourself doing well. That's really motivating. And so for y', all listening, like, get that brag book, get those good customer testimonials, get the recordings of when you closed the deal. And listening to those regularly, like, really does help breed the success. Now, you did use one word here that I want to actually keep going down is how do you get back on track? So you said, like, when you get low or you get into a slump, right? Because it's not, you know, for everyone listening, y' all know this. If you're in sales, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. No matter what. You'd be the best salesperson in the world. Right? Like, you go through slumps, so you lose some of that faith. Like, what are some things you did to, like, get back on track? Like, if you felt yourself kind of in a darker place?

Yeah. I think. I think for me, there's. There's two primary things. Things. One is remind myself why I'm doing it. Right? So it goes back to that why, you know, and we're all going to have off days, bad months, bad quarters, whatever the case may be. But for me, reminding myself why I'm doing It. And if I achieve my goals, what does that mean for my family, right? I'm a big visual person. So I've got pictures of my kids, my family behind me. That's my why, right? So I'm having a bad day. I'm not. I don't want to pick up the phone. I turn around, like, bang. I got to, right? I'm doing it for them. So that's. That's one of the things. Just remind yourself your. Why make it really visual? And I think the. The next thing, though, is, like, you got to put it all in perspective, right? Like, this was said to me when I was in my. My first many slumps, right? But I think it was like, you're not a heart surgeon. Like, if you mess up, like, you're not killing anybody, things are good, right? So I think it also kind of goes back to, like, put things in perspective for me. I'd say over the last couple of years, I've really, really tried to implement and practice more gratitude for just waking up every day, my feet hitting the floor, right? My family, my health, roof over my head. Just some of the basics that people very easily take for granted and the great things that I have. So, like, you know, once you're able to just appreciate what you've got, sometimes, at least for me, it allowed me to go and be like, all right, like, I still got this. Like, it ain't over. I still got fight left in me. And it kind of inspires and motivates me.

I love that. And we've talked about this so much. Like, gratitude is so important, right? And I love the call out, because I say this to y'.

All.

I was like, you guys, you're picking up a phone. You are picking up a phone or you are on a zoom call. This is not heart surgery. This is not coal mining. This is not being a teacher in the inner city in an under. Like, that's hard. What we do is scary. It's not hard. Rejection is scary. It is, y'.

All.

That is what it is. I'm not downplaying that. But what we do isn't that hard when you really think about the comparisons of what we have to do and, like, what other people are doing day in and day out. We just have to make the choice. Every day, we just have to make the choice. And you hinted at something there, especially around gratitude. Because when I reached out to, you said, like, all right, what topic? You said, like, mindset to have a long lasting and fulfilling career in sales, right? And I want to touch on that a little bit around, like, what are some of the things that you found to be successful to get more fulfillment right from your. From your job, from sales, like, what. Where. How do you kind of fill that bucket, so to speak?

Speak. Yeah. I think for me, like I mentioned before, like, really early on in my career, I. I knew I wanted to take more of that, like, coaching path. And I say coaching pretty intentionally because I never wanted to, like, manage people. Like, at first it was just like, I want to help. Like, again, I felt like I could be a better coach than a. Than a player. And I felt I was getting. I was. I was more. It was more rewarding for me to see others close their deals than even me going and closing my own. So early on, that's what it was about. And so for me, I love seeing progression and growth. I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm just wired that way. Like, I have this, you know, 1% better every single day. And you gotta be constantly, like, finding ways to better yourself. This sales game we're in, man, like, you see it firsthand. Like, it evolves so quickly. So you always have to be learning and you always have to be adopting and evolving. So I don't know. I think for me, like, seeing others get better and achieve their goals gets me. Gets me really fulfilled. And I've got, you know, again, because I've been at this for a long time now. I've had sales reps that have worked for me. I had a sales rep, he worked for me for 10 years. And seeing where we started together to who he is today with the family, I've had other reps that like, sdr. She was like. I was like, you're gonna be my boss one day. Like, I was just so excited for her potential to see it come to fruition. So I think for me, it's just like, when I see other people achieve their goals, like, I'm achieving mine and we're good. Like, that's. That's where I get a lot of fulfillment personally.

So actually, I think then this is a really. I can't say. I can't say it's a good question before I ask it, but this is where I'm going with this. How did you earn that first leadership role? Because I think sometimes I think people listen, like, yeah, that's me too. But, like, I'm not the top performer. I'm not going to get promoted to management or leadership because I'm not the top of the board. How did you earn the right to, you know, in a lot of ways, take the focus off yourself and start leading people. Was that at a company, or did you leave the company to get your first leadership role? Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, no, that. That is a great question. So my. My first leadership opportunity was a promotion from within.

Okay.

I. I was not top of the leaderboard, but I did have, like, two premier deals that closed. So, like, I was. I was like, put on the map, if you will. Right? And I remember telling my. My manager at the time, I was like, I think I want your job. Like, I don't want to take your job from you. Right.

Like, Right.

I want to be, like, coaching and helping. And I think the reason that. And don't get me wrong, there were others that were much better than me, but, you know, delivered more, sold more everything. But I was able to show the ability to allow others to succeed.

Right.

Like, I could. I could take my talents and spread them across others. And so, like, the uplift I had across many people was like, whoa. And so I planted the seeds early. I think that was really key. I think I was in sales for, like, nine months when I talked to my manager the first time, and I remember she was like, I see it. Like, I really see it. And I was like, oh, cool, right? So I got super excited about it. And of course, she was like, same thing. She was like, be the top builder. Be the top builder. And I was like, that's just not me necessarily. Like, I'm gonna go after it. I'm gonna do everything I can to make it happen. But I quickly realized, well, when I'm that manager, I'm not the rainmaker, right? I'm the. Let me get people excited and motivated, feeling good. Let me coach them and help them strategize through deals. Like, if I can coach and show that I'm a proven coach that helps people execute at a high level, I can get that shot.

There we go.

It was really about me just trying to prove that I can teach. I'm a phenomenal teacher. I think I'm a great motivator. I think I'm a good team builder and create some good culture. And if I can show that in little phases, I think I'll get my shot.

And I love that. I was hoping that was where you were going to take it, because people always think, well, I haven't been made a manager yet, so I haven't had an opportunity to manage. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Like, if you like Oh, I get so much fulfillment from helping other people. Where's the evidence you've been helping other people? Like, start doing the things right, like making other people around you become so obvious. And if you're standing out there, that's how you can break through versus, like, oh, like, if I were just a manager, that's where I get fulfillment. Okay, Start doing those things, like, make sure, like, you know, like, and that's there. And I do also like the call out to. Of making it known early. I think a lot of people either never voice it and they just hope they get picked, right. Or they wait too long and then they get disgruntled. Right? They wait too long, they say, oh, a manager opening popped up. I want it. It's like, well, you should have said something six months ago, nine months ago. Now it's too late. We already have another candidate. We have whatever else. And so I think voicing it early all is really, really important. And so as we kind of come towards the end here, man, if you think about some of the things that you've either seen in your success or the teams that you've led, like, what other key kind of mindset, you know, tactics or characteristics have you seen to really lead to higher success rates?

Yeah, I think a common one, though, and this is a bit more general, but I did want to make sure I touched on it is you, who you are in your personal life is going to bleed into your professional life and vice versa. Right. So again, I made parallels to whether it was fitness or being an athlete. I'll be able to draw those in. I think a lot of people try to say, I'm going to be this salesperson, Right. And then they're not developing in their own personal life. Right. And so identifying things, it can be things you want to do in your personal life that are going to be growth and learnings and developments that are going to bleed into your professional life. I think the most, definitely the most notable one for me was like, the moment I became a father, I became a better leader. Right? And like, that was an education school that you don't get at like, any business school nowhere, Right. Like, there's no leadership coach in the world better than being a parent. Now, don't go be a parent just because you want to become a better leader. Right?

Call out. Good. Call out.

Right. But for me, I thought it was just. It was again, one of those aha moments for me that once I realized that, I think the rate at which it became easier and felt more normal that was a big one. But the last one I'll kind of leave, which is a bit more specific. Especially in sales. If you're just earlier on in your career, play the long game, right? You have to have the mindset of the long game. I'm sure that's with the relationships you build. That's with everything. You know, deals come and go. I've had customers who didn't work with me for two, three years and finally, bang, those. Those came on and were some of the best customers. People that I met early on in my career. Right. Tremendous relationships that just continue to blossom and later on in my career, like, we're all helping each other out. So playing the long game is huge because it's easy to think like this month's quota, right? Like, boom, boom, boom. But what about next month? Right? What about the pipeline for next quarter? So playing the long game, I think it's a big one.

Yeah, I like that. Because when you think long game, you start to be more consistent. I would way rather have a rep hit a hundred percent every month than 125, 92, 115, 76, 150. Like, yeah. People would ask, like, oh, how do you feel about sandbagging, so to speak? I was like, look, I would way rather you be consistent and every month be feeling good than blow out a month. Because also in sales, we blow out the month and then the very next month we're stressed. We just had our best month ever, and then we're stressed the next month and we don't even reward ourselves for the good month because then we have a bad month and now we're right back in that cycle again.

Again. Yeah, man. Yeah. When the calendar flips and you're back at zero.

Hello. Hello, Zero, my old friend. We made that a song internally. It's like every month you wake up and it's zero. So cool, my man. Well, this was great. And so much of what we focused on here, really, it does fall into that live better kind of advice around mindset fulfillment. So I'm going to flip the question, right? What would your sell better advice be? Because obviously you have had a phenomenal career in sales. Normally I ask people, like, what their live better advice is at the end, but you've been covering the live better side. What would your sell better advice be for people listening?

Sell better. I think it's one of the things I talk to my reps about a lot is just being more authentic, being more human. Right. I think it's easy to become a robot Got to ask these discovery questions, qualify you as. I think it's so easy to fall into that, and all of that stuff is really important. But literally before this, I was on a call with my reps. I'm like, man, just like, be authentic. Be a human. Ask the questions, Crack some jokes. Like, it doesn't have to be this really uptight, rigid thing. Like, let it flow. Just be you, and don't put so much pressure and stress on you. So I think as you're thinking about, you know, your sales process, think about how do you apply your own specific human touch to it, right? Like, there's only one you in the world, right? That's your experience. You can deliver. So deliver it. Right. Mine's like, really bad, cheesy jokes throughout the sales process. I kill that game, man. Right? So I think it's just like, be you, Be more human. Be more authentic.

I love that, and I'm glad that's where we wrapped on this, y'.

All.

And funny enough, I had a post about this recently, too, of, like, have more fun with this. Like, I love that. Like, you know, and if you're gonna. If you're gonna go down, go down swinging. But, like, go down swinging, having fun. Like, try things you haven't tried before. Make the joke, send the song, do whatever, because it's a better way to sell, and it's memorable. And, like, I just wish more people did that. Actually, funny enough, in my office here somewhere, I might have lost. Actually, there it is. I have, like, the sales hat, right? The sales hat, But I don't use it for the way people think it would be used. I use it as an example to take the sales hat off. Take your sales hat off for a second and just be Kefek, be kd, be Betty, be Jenny. Like, just be right and see what happens. So, my man, this was great. Where can people get more of you? Where are you putting out content? Like, where can they connect? Like, how can people get more of what you're putting out there?

Yeah, for sure. I'm really active on LinkedIn, so just hit me up on LinkedIn. I love just connecting with people, talking shop, learning more and more. Again, I think every single person you interact with, you can learn something from and take something from. So check me out on LinkedIn, but definitely hit me up. We'd love to talk shop. Awesome.

I do. Well, I appreciate you. This was great. It was exactly what I was hoping it would be. I'm sure we'll have many talks about this down the road.

Man.

So thank you so much for your time, energy and attention.

Dude, awesome. Appreciate you, man.

Hell, yeah.