The Pros and Cons of Moving Up to Management with Daisy Chung

A lot of things get sticky with the AE world. Is my OP qualified, the AE didn't move it, things like that. So the emotions, the processes, fleshing it out. So it's black and white to me that's what SDR management felt like. The AE role, it's less that because a lot of times AES, sometimes AES want to be AES for a very long time. They're not thinking what's next? What's next? Even if they want that promotion, I want to be a mid market enterprise, etc. They aren't as emotional about it. They're still usually pretty happy in their job. So more of the time it's really getting in the trenches and managing deals with them and working with Yield specifically, I'd say.

So this would be a fun one. This is a loaded question. I'll see what your answer is here. Do you believe an SDR manager can manage closers without having closed themselves? Because this is where a lot of SDR managers get stuck. Is they SDR and become an SDR manager and they now feel like they're trapped in SDR leadership, that they can't make a jump over to the aisle unless they go become a closer for two to three years and then work their way back up. So what are your thoughts? You've done both?

Yeah.

Right. What do you think? Can an SDR leader jump over to the AE closing? Obviously they have to learn it, but without having done it.

Yeah. If you want my simple answer, I say you should be a closer first before you manage a team of closers. That's my simple answer. I mean again, it depends on the company. This is a big company, a lot of resources and the team. If you're the estuary manager making the transition and you're managing a team that can get the resource elsewhere to help them understand close deals, those can be some exceptions. You're a phenomenal people leader. I can see those exceptions. But typically you are in the trenches to start with your reps and they meet someone with experience of, of closing to guide them to that. So yeah, that's my answer.

I'm just curious because there's both sides of that fence because oftentimes you'll see a leaders step into SDR leadership roles even though they were never an sdr. But you don't see as many SDR leaders get to step over to the closing side if they haven't closed first. So just curious because you've done both now. So just curious on your take on it.

Yeah, no, that's A, that's a, that's a, that's a good question. I think that, yeah, because, because not everyone has SEO experience. A lot of folks become an AE with no SDR experience. They, they're a 10 year employee at other companies, they've done partnerships this and that and they jump into the A role. And I've seen some of the best AES also have never been SDRs. I've also seen the best AES that were killer SDRs. So at the end of the day, I think holistically really depends on the company culture, what kind of company you are, what the resources look like and what your deals look like as well. Like the more complicated and technical the deals are, the more you need those resources, the more straightforward, easier learning to learn the product, etc. In, in a day or so. I think the easier is to manage those things.

What would you say is the biggest difference in your experience now? Having led STRs and led AES. What's the nuances? Right, so you've managed SDRs, you've managed AES. What would be your biggest like differentiators between the two groups?

I'd say the biggest thing is there's a lot more managing emotions in the SDR world. Emotions. Can I get that promotion after 6, 8 months s years get antsy. They want that promotion and usually it's a big SDR team so they're competing against each other for a existing or non existing promotion. There's a lot of managing emotions and creating a lot of processes because a lot of things get sticky with the A world. You know, is my OP qualified? The AE didn't move it, things like that. So the emotions, the processes, fleshing it out. So it's black and white to me that's what SDR management felt like in the AE role. It's less that because a lot of times AES sometimes AES want to be AES for, for a very long time they're not thinking what's next, what's next? Even if they want that promotion, want to be a mid market enterprise, et cetera, they aren't as emotional about it and they're still usually pretty happy in their job. So more of the time it's, it's really getting the trenches and managing deals with them and working with, with deals specifically.

I'd say I love it, I love it. So what would be your biggest tips to a first time manager? So they did it first time manager. What would be your biggest tips to them? They're in this role now, they might Even be managing their former peers. Like what would those be like those top two to three tips you'd give them?

Yeah. I say find and create a network with other first time managers. First time management can feel lonely. You feel like you don't have a cohort of peers anymore that you, you can relate with and so create that cohort. There are a lot of first time managers out there. There are other companies with managers and if your team only has you as that first time manager, so find or create your own network so you know that it's not, it's not as lonely as it has to be. You can, you can find friends and relate. 2. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable, especially with your manager. When you're a first time manager, you feel like you have a chip on your shoulder and you have to know it all. You have to be the superhero. But you're human and you need help too and you need to learn. So be vulnerable and, and don't be afraid to share how you really feel when you're struggling with your direct manager. You have a direct manager on purpose. And even with your team, don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Again, it's a people's job. Like you have to be able to relate with people and to do that to be a good manager. And I think those are the two biggest tips. I guess the third one, the third one is that a third one, it's to don't be afraid to be yourself. I think a lot of times when you're a manager, you kind of create this facade of I have to be super formal, I have to be this and that to be a good manager or they'll look at me differently. But no, the best managers is just being yourself, whatever that means, and being very authentic because that's what you try to bring out of your team. Everyone's individual personality is going to drive the best team, the happiest employees, the best results, all that fun stuff.

So the last question before we start to wrap up here is your second time through. Right. So you're a manager, you went back your second time through. What did you do differently?

Right.

Because you'd been through it once before.

Right.

Like what did you do differently when you stepped into this leadership role compared to your first?

Yeah. So everything I said that I have to learn along the way, I did a little differently. So one, first and foremost I established that this is a managing role. You're friendly, but you're not best friends with everyone. So have that separation mindset. It makes your job so much easier. 2. You diversify the recruiting. It's not just everyone who seems like a top a hungry player. You got to understand diversity in recruiting and how it's going to drive a team dynamic. That's super important. 3. Having tough conversations earlier, that was hard for me as a first time manager. And now you know, the earlier you have it, the more direct you are. It's a win win for everyone. Not being afraid to leverage your own managers and be very open and vulnerable about things you need help with. Those are the main ones, but it's probably a much longer list. Anything you learn the first time around, the second time around makes it a lot a lot easier.