This is a conversational interview (Kevin "KD" Dorsey with a guest) about applying hospitality principles to business to improve customer and employee experience. Key points in this chunk: the importance of practicing frameworks in safe settings (managers must demonstrate skills in practice before expecting execution in live calls); Danny Meyer’s “excellence reflex” (five emotional skills: optimistic warmth, curiosity/intelligence, empathy, self-awareness/integrity, and a prideful work ethic); what makes a good hiring scorecard (aligning traits like optimism, curiosity, pride); leadership/manager priorities reframed for long-term success (employees first, guests/customers second, community third, suppliers fourth, investors fifth); and the need to explicitly define company values and also state what those values are not to avoid weaponization.
Chapters
That's where I think most companies miss is they'll roll out a framework and say, okay, go do it. One of the things I talk about with my managers all the time, if they can't do it with you in practice, I know they can't do it in the game.
That's a pretty good place to start if you're going to hire some sales reps. In terms of things that you're not going to be teaching them, the things that you want them to have when they. When they get in seat becomes a point in time when for the other customers and for your team, you have to put their needs above this one customer who might be giving you a lot of money in one occasion.
That's where I think most companies is. They'll roll out a framework and say, okay, go do it. Like no one's done it before. So then they're practicing on the prospect. So that doesn't go well. So they don't think it works. Whereas that practice is so key. One of the things I talk about with my managers all the time, if they can't do it with you in practice, I know they can't do it in the game, I don't even need to go listen to a call. Because if they're not able to do it with you in practice in a safe space, I know for a fact when the pressure is on and when they actually have a prospect on, they're not going to execute it. Like, it's that practice and repetition that is so key there. And so let's keep going down this, right? Because, you know, you had mentioned the book, you know, setting the table and going through this. And so it's like, what were some of the takeaways from that book? Right. Like, I have it pulled up right now, right? The 51% solution. Like, constant gentle pressure. Like road to success. Like, what are some of the things that stood out to you from that book? Around hospitality and then into business. What were some of those other key takeaways?
Yeah. All right, so I got three points that I wrote down ahead of time, so I'll make sure I go through them. So the first is around what? Danny Meyer, who's the guy who wrote the book, founded Shake Shack Union Square Hospitality Group. Sort of what he looks for in anyone that he hires. So he calls this the excellence reflex. And it's sort of five, like emotional skills, five core emotional skills. In his opinion. These are things that can't really be taught, and I would largely agree with that. So the first is Optimistic warmth. The second is intelligence. But the way that he defines intelligence I would more closely relate to, like, natural curiosity.
Okay.
The third one is empathy. The fourth one is self awareness and integrity. And then the fifth one, which is sort of the title of the book, is the way that he defines work ethic, which is people who care enough to take great care and pride in setting the table beautifully each time. And I think that that's a pretty good place to start if you're going to hire some sales reps in terms of, like, the things that you're not going to be teaching them, the things that you want them to have when they. When they get in seat. I really love that definition of work ethic. In particular, I think that, like, it's less about how much do you want to sweat and, like, you know, how much do you want the dollar? And it's more just like, do you take pride in your work? Do you take great care in your work? I think the original post that I had commented on for you was about, like, a whiskey or bourbon situation where someone recommended something, right?
Yep.
That's a perfect example of, like, that guy just like, he. He gives a shit when he goes to work, right? He cares. He's trying. He's like, really, like, leaning in and trying to make the experience better for everybody around him.
That's what it was. I was like. I was trying to remember, like, what triggered this, because right around that same time, there was a TED talk that was going that was very specific around this idea of, like, the experience of the. The buyer, the experience of the. The guest there. And so. Okay, yes. And it's funny, like, going through those terms, like, those characteristics sounds a lot like my hiring scorecard, like, almost to the letter, right? Around optimism, around curiosity, around self awareness. And again, like, similarly, like, pride, right? Did they take pride in what they do? Because the pride is something that's internal work ethic. A lot of people will only work hard if it's something that they like. Right? Whereas if you take pride in it, like, as a hard worker, that's just what you do. And it doesn't matter whether you're setting a table or not. So I really, really like that because it is. It's setting the foundation of the people on your team. Right? And y'.
All.
And y' all know this. There's restaurants out there where there's different types of people that fit within that restaurant and that experience that they're trying to create. So, okay, so I love that one in terms of really kind of setting the stage with your people, then where does it go?
All right, so this is where it gets a little more interesting. This is what he looks for in hiring managers. And as like a frontline manager, I think it's. There's some qualities that I try to emulate in the way that I lead my team. So the first is infectious attitude. And I was chatting about this whole thing with one of my reps last week, and his point, which I think is really well put, is managers. A manager's attitude is infectious whether it's positive or not, right. Whether it's bringing the team up or whether it's that like, misery loves company, everyone's kind of down, no one's hitting their number kind of thing. So I think recognizing as a leader that, like, no matter how I act, it's going to impact the energy of the team. So I need to be intentional about the way that I approach all the interactions that I have with the people that I work with. The second one is managers should have a charitable assumption, right? They should assume good intent when they have interactions with people. I think that goes a long way. And again, also kind of models for the team how to interact with other departments or sort of internal stakeholders and also obviously clients. The third one is the one that I would maybe expect you to disagree with me on a little bit or I think is like a little bit of a hot take. But it's the way that he defines a long term view of success. So remember, again, this is in restaurant terms, but you can put it in business terms easily. A manager should have the following priorities. Employees first, guests second, community third, suppliers fourth, investors fifth. And Danny Meyer's view is that even though typically a SaaS business, you might want like, not say out loud that the investors are last on your list of priorities, but if you order your priorities in that way, that the investors will make money and that that's the way to sort of set your business up. Terms of goodwill in terms of network effect for long term success.
I mean, I heard no hot take there. That's the only way.
Yeah, like, like.
And you nail it at the end. Because if you put the investors first, funny enough, they'll get what they want short term, they won't get what they want long term. Whereas you put your people and customers first. And that's where it's an interesting flop. It can go either way, right? It's like employee first or customer first. If the customer is first, that'll attract a certain type of employee. You put your employees first well, they better serve the customer. So that's the only place I could see a flip flop. But no, that's. That's the key to it, right? People seem to forget that a company is made out of people. And you take better care of your people, the company does better. Similar to the prospects, you know, no hot take for me, man. I'm 100% aligned with that.
Fair enough. And I think the example of a restaurant of employees over customers is like, drunk guy at the bar. Right. Becomes a point in time when for the other customers and for your team, you have to put their needs above this one customer who might be giving you a lot of money in one occasion.
Yes, we just did. So I was just on site at my new company. We did a whole ton of work around, like, culture and values. And one of the things that I brought up to them there is like, you know, any. Any phrase can get. Call it weaponized. So if, like, one of your values is, you know, customers first, well, that could be weaponized. Where a customer, like, wants a discount and it's like, well, no, it's like, well, that's not putting the customer first. Or a customer is. They're being degrading, they're being disrespectful, they're being whatever, they're being harassing. Customer is first. And so one of the things I rocked all the execs through is like, when you're defining your values and your virtues, you also have to define what it is not.
