Goldie Hawn: The Answer I Never Give

Today's guest is actress Goldie Hawn.

4 o'clock call. I could make it from here.

Well, we'll be done. We should be done. We should in an hour. We'll be done before 12.

Yeah.

Okay, so, uh,

honey, you look so cute.

Oh, so do you.

Yeah, well, come on, you look great. I didn't even curl my hair. I mean—

No, no, your hair is always perfect. Yeah, it's, it's, it's always perfect. Um, first of all, your book is there, your signed copy. Yeah.

Oh, good.

Thank you. I, I, uh, um, and we'll, we'll talk about that. And look, I've got a— I've got some questions to kick things off, but you can ask me questions. We can do whatever we want. Like, I would never think of this, but— No, no. They're very creative. It's great.

I love this gold and the thing.

He does all these set pieces.

I would have bought that myself. Speaking of lampshades, that's my next stop.

Oh, really?

Oh, it's like a Lucy routine, okay? Because I'm picking up lampshades, carrying them in. I look like I'm a homeless person. I mean, I've got so much shit. For your New York place in New York? Yeah, nothing worked. I mean, it's like, get the Uber, get the stuff pulled. I said, no, no, now I'm taking my lamp. Enough of this because it's not working with my lamp. Oh, anyway, it's all working out. I'm getting excited because I don't have to take every shade back. I mean, the things in life. But shit, I have to. I have to take care of this apartment. It's so beautiful. You'll never get that again. No. That— now, do you— how often do I come to New York? There's a whole thing, but I will go through a real mourning period if I sold that place.

I know, that's the hard thing.

It's a hard thing. It's 27 years of memories and time, and it's also like a temple for me. But it's not for Kurt.

No, I don't think he likes it.

He doesn't like it.

He doesn't like it. He doesn't like it.

It's not his thing.

He'd rather be in Aspen.

He is right now. Yeah. And loving it. And I love it too, but I like a little action, you know? And I also like to go out and see things.

I love New York City.

You know that. It's fun to drop in.

Yes.

So, you know, that's the thing.

Well, we'll get started for real.

Too early.

Thank you, love, for being here. Oh, honey, I love you. This is gonna be fun and we're gonna have fun together.

I know.

And we'll both put this out.

Oh, look, there's bubbles.

Yes, they made a bubbly one. Is that okay?

They did a bubbly one. Well, it's okay.

Yeah, I thought it was flat, but that's what showed up and I was I was happy to take any of them.

I do have a flat one, but it tickles my nose.

Yeah, that's fine. It's all good. It's all good. So, um, look, I thought we would, um, talk a little bit about when we met and stuff like that because just fun stories, and we'll remind each other of that. Mind Up— I really want to— want you to talk about Mind Up because it's so important. Your children's book, we gotta talk about that. I don't know if you have a copy, but I do want to—

I don't have one.

Oh well, you'll talk about it anyway. That's okay. And then we'll get in a little bit of the Joy Success Cycle and the forward. Yeah, good.

I love it. I love it.

If, uh, there's my notes. All right. Okay, baby. We'll, we'll get started. Well, welcome. Thanks. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me on your show here.

Sweetheart.

Our show. This is our show together. I've already hit the mic and destroyed the entire audio that they had. All right. So, I wanted to start, um, so, you know, um, long story, 25, 30 years ago, we met at, um, probably party at Ron Conway's house.

It's so long ago. It's a few decades. And that's where we met, because I was trying to figure out when was the first time— You and Kirk were there.

We saw each other. It was at Ron Conway's, and we just started talking about all kinds of things. Yes, yes.

And somehow it just worked. Yes.

It just worked.

Yeah, well, you work with anybody. Well, so do you. You can talk to anybody. I mean, I don't know, I don't know a stranger. I don't think you do either.

That's right, that's right. Well, that's our personality. Exactly. That's what we do, that's what we do. So, take us back to when we met a little bit, just— but you asked why we both seem to have so much energy and joy. In fact, what you actually said, and it was the inspiration for the book ultimately, was you looked at me after we talked for, who knows, an hour there, half hour, whatever it was. You said, Kevin, you and I, we both have high dopamine. Why is it that we have high dopamine? And I had a stew on that for like 20 years. I love that. Because technically, we probably have about the same amount of dopamine as everybody else, but somehow, We're kicking off our dopamine all the time. We're doing that. And we can control that. And that was sort of the impetus for the book. It's like, could you control all this joy? Could you have joy moments in everything you do? Exactly. In lampshades. Can you have joy moments in lampshades? You could probably find some.

Well, I've already laughed my, excuse me, ass off trying to bring lampshades into my apartment.

It's freaking lampshades.

I laugh at my mistakes. I

mean— When you're bringing lampshades in your apartment over and over and over again and taking them out, Is the doorman going, oh no, here she is again with the lampshade.

Open the electric doors.

So here's the question, right? What did you see in me? I know what I saw in you, I'll talk about it. What did you see in me that I hadn't recognized in myself? How about that?

Your energy. Your energy. I mean, we fire, so our cells fire. They fire, fire, fire. And as you get older, they're supposed to be not firing as much, right? But it's like a child, right? Well, you had a child's excitement around life. Do children— you know, when we look at our kids, you look at the look in their eye. I think that's how you meet people, and that's when you get to know them, right? Yeah. Or what you feel, their energy, you feel their positivity, you feel their curiosity, all those things which actually add up to probably, if you could contain those things in your life, probably a happier life. And so anyway, I saw myself in you. Well, sometimes you see matches. I think we all do. do, you know. Right. In terms of people that we do. But you were a match. That was it. You know, I'm— you are without a doubt a creator. You are always dreaming. You are always thinking on very high level. You were early on in AI. Your imagination is huge. You also are generous of your ideas, yourself, and you're kind and brilliant. So these are things that I would aspire to if I were just meeting you today. And also I would also Recognize. So I think it's a little bit of recognition.

Oh, let's just end the podcast there because I don't think— so thank you. You're very, very kind. Well, here's the interesting thing. You know, I think people don't realize— people ask me all the time about a variety— I keep hitting the mic, but that's okay— a variety of people that we all know. We know people in Hollywood, we know people in tech, we know, you know, and they always, oh, you know this person or that person, how are they? And, you know, Some people on camera are not that same person when they're off camera, right? That's right. You are more generous off camera than you are on camera. I don't know how else to say that, right? I mean, I don't think people realize, you know, 'cause they see you in film and in film you're playing a role, right? Yeah. And you're playing, it's ditzy or it's smart or it's brilliant or it's falling off the boat or whatever it is, right? Yeah. But I don't think they realized, you know, a couple of things. One, how smart you are. And I mean that honestly, right? Because you don't see that all the time. In film, we see the role that you're playing. And so, I don't think people realize how actually brilliant you are and what you've been able to do with MindUP. Thank you. And how you figured out that this is important and this is how the brain works and we can control it in certain ways, and especially in our children. And you just— we're going to talk about MindUP in a few minutes, but boy, did you go for that, right? Yeah. And how generous and kind you are. Such a special soul in real life.

You know, sweetheart, I— there isn't a human being that I don't love to begin with, meaning that I love humans. I think someone asked me, what thrills you more than anything? And I said, meeting a human being who is so extraordinary and inspiring. It's people make me happy. And, and those people that are proven to not be what I expected or what I Thought are no longer in my life. It's okay. But I go out in the world already smiling at people because it's who we are. We connect to each other. And one human to another, then another human to another becomes a community. And if you love each other just from the start, just from your heart, not for any reason, but just for being human, I think that's For me, I've never been any different, even as a little girl. I mean, I would— my mother would say to me, like, we'd have— mom had friends over or whatever. I didn't really know them very well, but I had to kiss them goodnight. And she said, well, honey, do you have to kiss everybody goodnight? And I said, yes, I do. Yes, that's what I do. I can't help it, right? And I kiss everybody anyway. I don't know why we don't kiss each other more.

I know. I know, you know, it's an attack. When I go to Italy, first thing all my relatives do, they come up and kiss you.

Yeah.

Why? Because it's what we do. It says we care about you.

Exactly.

And, and that's the start of— I'm gonna open with that.

Exactly. Now, in India and in those parts in Asia, they put their hands together and bow to you. They're bowing to the divinity in you, and that's what it's about. And I believe that everyone has a spark of the divine. I really do. We lose it along the way, but there's ways to recapture it just with ideas, with thinking, and with practice.

You know, you know Erica, my wife, and Erica has always said, you know, when there's this terrible person in the world that did something horrible, she says there was a moment in time when that was a cute little child that was innocent.

I know.

Something happened between the day they were born and today to lead them to this terrible life, whatever happened. But at one point they all started as God's child, as this beautiful child, as this lovely, lovely child.

It's pure potential, isn't it?

Yeah, it was pure potential. It's what you do with it after that. It's really fascinating. Well, that's question 1, and we will keep going. And we can throw these questions out too, but I tried to think of things we should talk about because there's so much to talk about and try to keep it Keep it focused. Okay. What kept that conversation? You probably answered it already. What kept the conversation going for 25 years, right? We, we have a conversation one night at a party. We've had a couple glasses of wine. Kurt's wonderful. You're wonderful, right? We're having a ball. What did we recognize in each other despite working, actually working in different worlds at the time? Mm-hmm. You had crossed over a little bit in tech. You're doing some stuff. I'm doing a little bit in Hollywood, et cetera. Mm-hmm. But mostly I was tech and you were Hollywood. And yet we found something in each other that said, oh, this is an important relationship to maintain and nourish and love and care for.

Yeah, I think we were talking about that earlier, but I think ultimately one of the areas that I saw in you was very curious about what I was doing and what I was up to. I was

fascinated. I'd never heard of such a thing before.

Yeah, and so you, when you look at, why aren't we teaching children about their brain? It was the question I asked. Why are we not teaching children about their brain when we ask them to use it? Okay? I mean, you can't hammer a nail in without a hammer.

Right.

I mean, I look at this as almost in awe of not understanding, particularly at this time period. But during that time, when I probably shared some of this with you, I was also working in an area of— I was doing a documentary on happiness, In Search of Joy Around the World. And we've known each other so long, but that was ended because of 9/11, you know? And I said, we can't do joy right now, and I'm gonna take everything I'm learning and I'm gonna create a program for children because we are now— we have a changed world. After 9/11, our world changed forever. Yes, it did. I felt it. And so with that, you, during that time period, or a little before, had said, I'd like to help you. And that's your nature. So what happened is that I had a beginning program. I think it was called Mindfulness Education or Mindful Me. And we had it all printed, but we didn't have a— we hadn't given it to Scholastic yet or done any of that. Right. We were just— had to get a cover. We had to have a thing and put it together in a spiral notebook. And you put every one of those together for us. I will never forget.

It was boxes of thousands or something. It was unbelievable. They were all piled up. Well, because I had a print shop at the time in one of the businesses that I had. And they had the capability to do something unique, which was print all these things and put them into 3-ring binders and put them together and box them. And they all had to be separated and collated. And it was all this— it was kind of a manual thing. But we had a whole shop. I think you came to the shop one time and I showed you that.

It was amazing.

And a whole set of people that did it. I said, we'll just do it for you. Like, this is a, you know, an unusual thing. It's very important to, to get this thing off the ground.

Yeah, that was when I was in Vancouver.

Yeah.

You know, so I created it in Vancouver. Yes. And also other places.

With scientists out there.

Scientists there, and they all, you know, looked at it. It was pretty amazing. In the meantime, you were the one that gave us this offering, and for nothing, by the way.

Yeah.

That was one of the great things I could say in the beginning of MindUP that really made me feel like I had something important there other than the research. And there we were, and there we were. And then I would have fundraising and you were always there. You always came. You always were focusing in on how well it was doing and where are we going and, you know, And the research was so extraordinary to share that. So I think that was the beginning of our relationship, which it was a relationship that we paid attention to. And I think there are times when we meet people that we just get a sense of that we care so much and we don't nurture them enough. And that— We get busy. We get busy. Yeah, we do. And even now I'm probably busier than I've ever been at my age. But at the same time, you know, I make sure that I call people back or I connect with them because they matter to me. But because you get so distracted, suddenly you don't have those people in your life anymore. Right. And guess then what? Then you're lonely. Then you don't have your connections. Right. If I wait and then I finally call my girlfriend, which I haven't talked to in ages, and I go, oh, but it's gonna be a while, and I sit there, You know, when I get on the phone after it's over, I'm so happy because I felt connected. So with our relationship, it's— and over the years, you have informed me. You have been there. You have, you know, literally were very helpful in getting me this wonderful award at Eastman. I, you know, you're just right there in my life and I am in yours. And so that makes a relationship.

I think a lot of people can learn from that. I do too. And to put time into the relationships that matter.

It's everything. I, you know, and, and as we're rolling so fast and, you know, basically when we were younger, we were gossiping, we had all kinds of things to think about. Now we just have life to talk about. I have my work to also share with you, and you've been really helpful with me, which we can talk about. But ultimately, the joy that I get from being with you Right, is valuable. As valuable as the information you're helping me with. That's valuable. And yeah, it's everything.

That's— thank you. Look, I feel the same way about you.

Yeah. So this is—

And I learn from you every day, right? I learn everything we do together. We were working on some AI things together to say, hey, does an AI Goldie work, or should it be this, or should it be that? But we got to test those ideas. Exactly. Because you had some ideas and Of course, I work in that technology, so I was able to gen some stuff up, and it gives you ideas to bring back to people. I know. And so that kind of back and forth is valuable, and we learn from each other what works, what doesn't work, why it'll work, how you can change what's going on with the students, what's gonna go out to the—

But so here's the other thing, the brain world. So we have these things called mirror neurons, and those mirror neurons actually are shared. So when I'm talking to you and I hear you, I feel you, I get your energy, I even smell you, I am basically giving back to you the same thing with your mirror neurons. So that means that we're sharing something. It isn't just, oh goody, I have a friend, I'm sharing. Right, right. It's much more important for the brain for empathy.

That's interesting.

And you create more empathetic reactivity when you are sharing something with someone. It fills your heart. It creates dopamine emission. It makes you feel grounded, more settled. These are the aspects of how we can help each other in basically creating more human capital.

It's interesting because there's, you know, there are, we don't understand all of physics, right? So there's people been trying to figure out the rest of physics. I think that's the easiest way I can say it. Yeah, we need to do more. And some— And more, and more, and more. And some of that is why is it that some people can feel another person with their wisdom, right? Why is— we don't understand that because in traditional physics we don't understand how that can be. But we know it does happen. We know it. It's like you're in the room with that person, you're feeling what they're feeling, you can sense what they're thinking, and you go, why?

There are parts of the brain that do feel that.

Why is that connected like that? Is that telepathy? We don't understand it, right?

Well, what's interesting is there's a part of the brain in the thymus It's the hypothalamus, is recognition. And when you're walking toward me and I see you have a sad face, I recognize that. And I see and I know emotionally it might be a time to ask how you are, or emotionally to say maybe I better not say anything. Whatever that is, you have an instinct and a feeling around that person. Right. There are children That are born with a lack of being able to recognize faces and lack of recognizing how someone feels. And those are spectrums. Some are spectrums.

A variety of— they don't call it Asperger's anymore, but there's a whole spectrum of this.

A whole spectrum. It's like on the autistic spectrum or whatever. God bless them. And I think that that's the way. But ultimately, we can do that. Now, how do you handle it? And this is what we do with the kids in the class. Do we care about someone? Do we wonder what they're thinking? Are you going to help soothe them? Or are you going to reject them? These are things that we have to know we have in our brain.

And kids are interesting because, as you know, kids without your program, they're under stress, it's very difficult, and what do they move towards? They move towards picking on the other person Punching the other, you know, all these things that are negative because they have no other way to express themselves.

They're just reacting all the time. Yeah.

And, well, we'll get to your program and why you changed that.

Yeah, no, exactly. Well, we could talk about that, but here's what I think. I think getting back to the subject of joy is the aspect of how we can develop more joy in our lives, because the potential is there. We can't just walk around with Eeyore face without self-recognition. We know we're not feeling happy. But ultimately, when you understand the nature of the set point of being born with a set point of experiencing joy, happiness, getting those feelings, that can be upgraded 50% through all the research that was done. Mm-hmm. So we have a chance. And that's why I love your book because your book is, what attitude do you have? You know, when we're talking about my program, which is all great, but we're building human capital in our program. No doubt about it. People are trying to figure out how we're gonna get to human capital economy. I mean, brain economy. Right. Get into other brain areas. But my question is, if you don't really understand your brain, you don't know how to regulate it and you aren't able to do it. So when you're writing, you're writing a book that says joy is a primo, attribute to be able to have in your company, in your world, where you work, how we influence others, how we can create stability, fearlessness, and working together. This is why it's the same thing that I'm doing, but in a classroom.

Yeah.

So we are together as a team focusing on what I would consider developing greater human capital. where we are more productive, more happier, more connected, and more human, especially now that we're dealing with our AI world. Mm-hmm. How do we separate? Mm-hmm. This book separates us from a world that doesn't have a heart. Mm-hmm. We are different, but we need to continue to develop this amazing apparatus that we have in our head. And how it connects to this body, which is a magical thing. To think that how all this stuff works is unbelievable. I know. I mean, oh my God. I mean—

It took millions of years to get it to work, but it works now for at least 80 or 90 or 100 years, so it's pretty good, right?

Exactly.

Kind of a miracle.

I mean, I don't wanna go crazy here, yeah. But for the time being, it's working pretty good.

I mean, we could have had this brain attached to a worm. That wouldn't have worked as well. You can't go very far. I mean, when you think of all the things that had to happen. Either from God or nature or a combination. It's kind of freaky.

It's pretty amazing.

It's pretty amazing. And it allows us to not only sit here, it allows us to design things like microphones and cameras and lighting and AI. And AI. I mean, what brain could have done that?

This is amazing. I know. It's amazing. We just don't want the brain to become the brain itself that actually decides what they're gonna do.

Yeah, yeah, well.

That brain has to go away.

That's a longer conversation.

It's a longer conversation. All right, so— That's probably a very interesting one.

So here's the thing that I— there's the book. The book is out now. The thing is—

The Success Cycle.

The Joy Success Cycle. And what I like about it is, like your program, I took that— I mean, all the ideas overlap, and that's because the science is the science. Like, this has been studied over and over and over again. We talk about Seligman and all the other people who've studied this, right? And in the end, If your brain is in a joyful state, your opportunity, my view, your opportunity for success. Now, yours was success in the classroom. Mine is like, it turns out it works worldwide for everything. It does. Your success for the rest of your life, you're going to reach your peak success by having joy every moment of every day. And then you go, well, I can't do that because— hang on, hang on. What I learned in writing this book and what I learned in self-reflection and in you, is we actually control how we feel at every moment of every day. So, I'll give you an example. You can, I mean, either of us can look at coming into a studio and doing a podcast as, oh geez, I gotta do this. And we know we gotta fit things in our day. Or we can say, this is gonna be, I'm gonna learn, I'm going to expound, I'm going, you know, I can turn into a joy moment or a terrible moment. And we can do that with every moment of our day. Yeah. And this Once you learn you control your joy, like you can control it, then you will reach your peak success because there's no choice. Like, that's what's going to happen.

I know.

And otherwise, you're digging yourself out of some terrible hole and you're negative and mean. And, you know, one of the chapters in the book, and it's my favorite one, it's kind of a method book, right? But one of them is the One Complaint a Day Rule. Now, the One Complaint a Day Rule is interesting.

That's so great.

Yes.

I love that.

What I found through science literature and actually meeting people is people tend to complain, and let's say in the US, because these are people I know the most, right? 50 to 100 times or more a day, internal and external. So, a lot of those are internal complaints.

Yeah.

Okay? But every time you complain, you're taking your positive quotient down a notch. You're just taking it down a notch and taking it down a notch. That's right. And so, then you're in this hole and you got to dig yourself out. So, if you consider That you want to be at a 10 all the time, but you— and you get out of bed and you're at a 5, and the first thing you do, go, oh, my knees hurt. Well, now you're at a 4. Oh, the coffee sucks. Now you're at a 3.

It's great.

You're taking yourself all the way down, and now someday you got to dig yourself back out of that.

It's so great.

So, so I gamified it and said, count the number of negatives you have during the day. You're not going to be happy with the number. Yeah, you'll be happy with your number, but most people aren't going to be happy with And the next day, your whole goal is 1. And I guarantee you, you're gonna get out of bed and go, oh, this hurts, eh. You've used up your 1 for the whole day.

Well, you're also creating self-awareness.

Yes.

Which is really important.

And now you're finally aware of, oh, I didn't know. I had no idea I was complaining all the time. And so we take that out and we gamify. I've had people write me back 2 or 3 weeks after reading this book and say, you changed my life. Even that 1 rule gamified it. I got self-awareness around how much I was doing this. And we also talk about the other thing is you're complaining internally. That's hurting your chance of success. It's hurting your chance of friendship. The other thing is when you complain externally, I hate to say it, no one wants to be around you. No one.

You are not fun to be around.

Not fun to be around. It's Debbie Downer. And I know that's not fair to Debbies, but it's Debbie Downer and no one wants to talk to Debbie Downer at the water cooler or anywhere else. They kind of avoid you.

It's so funny, the water cooler.

Yeah. Do they even have a water cooler at work? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't think we have people to go around it even.

Yeah.

That's a whole other thing. I think they bring you water in plastic bottles.

Whatever. But the point is that this whole— just that alone can be a game changer, and you get to control it. And this is the point.

This is what I call it. I call it the Grand Canyon of negative emotions, because that is what happens every time you have a thought and it's a negative. You've connected neurons. Now these new neurons are— then you connect more neurons. Then you can make neurons.

I don't want to connect those neurons.

I don't either. So suddenly you're creating all these neurons on a Grand Canyon, and I say it goes deeper and deeper into the cavern, and you now have to dig it out. That's what you just said.

Dig it out. Yep. Got to dig yourself out.

So that's the way the brain works. So it connects to these things. Yes. It's just like we want to meditate every day, it starts connecting to that. We do a brain break in the classroom, the kids now are connecting to the positive. So my point is, Your point is, is I'm supporting it, which is the brain is actually, you're feeding the brain, and then the brain will feed right back to you, and then you'll be a negative person.

Yup.

It's like so easy to understand.

And just stop doing it. There's an old comedy routine, old comedy routine, it was Bob Newhart, and this woman comes in and he's the psychiatrist or something. He says, you only need to pay me for 5 minutes. Why? We'll be done. And she goes through this, all this stuff, well, I'm complaining, I'm negative, this and that. And then she stops. She says, are you going to say something? Yes. And he leans over the desk. Stop it! Yeah, but I have this problem. Stop it! Just stop it! And it was the funniest. And I laughed and laughed because— That's very funny. Of course, this is 200 pages of telling you to stop it, right, at some level. But I'm really saying, and you're saying, and that's why the overlap between the programs is so interesting, is You actually can control this. Now, we're not talking about you went to the doctor and you got a cancer diagnosis. I'm talking about your regular everyday, right? We're going to take apart the— take those to the side, but 99% of your days are regular days with family, with friends, with church, with work, with whatever it is, right? Life. Running kids around, whatever it is. And at home and at work, you get to control how you feel about literally everything in your day. And if at the end of the day you go, this day sucks, it only sucked probably because of you and the choices you made and the way you felt about the things you did that day, right? I give an example in here about firing someone. And all of us— and I know, because I know some of the people you've had to fire, right? Yeah. And we all have to fire, and not because they're bad people, but because it's not working going forward, or it worked till now. What worked till now doesn't work going forward, whatever. Right? This is part of work. We all have to lay off people and fire people and bring new people in. It's just the cycle of life. And I give an example of how you need to turn even firing someone, because people think that's the worst. I got to get up today and I got to let someone go and they're a friend or they're a— I said, but here's what you have to realize. Here's the joy side of that. The joy side is this. They're not working well for the company. They're not working well for you. And they probably know that. This isn't a secret at this point, right? There have been many conversations. And it's probably not working well for them. And this is going to be an opportunity for them to go get a better fit for their life, a much better fit. And they're going to be in better shape 3 months from now, in a better role for them. And we're going to have someone that is a better fit for the company. Like, everybody wins. And I know it's hard, and I know it's a difficult thing to do, and we have to understand it's hard on that person. But on the other hand, it's going to be better for them and better for me. And I tell people that when I have to let them go.

Yeah.

I literally say that it's going to be better for you. You know, it wasn't working. wasn't working. You've been frustrated. It's been a challenge. You're gonna find a place that's gonna be great for you, and I'm gonna give you a great reference.

Okay, there you go. Because this is the key. This is good leadership. So when you're talking about leadership, that means that you and I have to hire and fire, which I am the leader. That gives me the ability, a necessity to have to do that.

Yeah, the unfortunate necessity to both hire and fire.

Exactly. But the key is, how do you do it? It's leadership skills. It's all of these things that ultimately you're talking about in the book, but also that we need to learn, I think, and probably understand even at the college level. Let's talk about leadership. Let's talk about the skills you need, not just the intelligence.

Right.

But the actual emotional intelligence that you need. And that's what people must learn. You have the capacity to be a better leader, just to be a better person. And that's ultimately the best information you could possibly have. And that means, yeah, one point, you know, what is it, one finger point out and 3 back to you? It's our job to do that. Yeah. And therefore, we will have much better outcome. So I just, You know, I love this conversation. It's so positive and it's so correct. And the idea is, is that— and it's so doable— that you just have to have the intention. And the other thing I would say is forgive yourself. Because, okay, so you find out you got a bad score. The great thing is, is that you learned how often you're thinking negatively. That means I really learned something today. That's positive.

Yes. I counted 68 times I was negative, but that's okay. Tomorrow it'll be 38.

Exactly.

And the next day it'll be 20. You are learning how to catch yourself. Right. And you start to— people learn how to catch themselves before they say— they go, oh, no. What's the positive? You know, like you break a glass at home.

Yeah.

All right. And, you know, people, I mean, they scream, I can't believe I did this. I can't. And we all do this, but I've learned to go, It's a material thing, and all material things will eventually leave our life one way or the other.

Exactly, I have the same feeling.

They will break. It's just a material thing. Don't get attached to it. Don't get too attached. Everything will break.

Everything will break. And you know, it is one of those things that one time I remember my father was a violinist, and he basically was playing around the living room, and I had a very expensive pear point lamp that I had, which I loved, and whatever. Anyway, he wrapped his foot around it, Pulled it right out of it, yeah. In a thousand pieces. And I looked at Daddy and he said, well, you know, whatever. And I said, well, and we both agreed, it's just a lamp.

It's just a lamp.

And the other thing that I have to share this, 'cause literally it's something I just thought of. And I know this sounds crazy because I, you know, but we learn something new about ourselves every day. When I was on, I laugh at my mistakes. Like I just did my children's book and I did the audio for it. Yeah. After School Kindness Crew. Yeah.

And you sat there and recorded that.

And I recorded it. But there are things, I'm a little bit dyslexic, so sometimes I'll take a word and move it or something. And so anyway, so I would do, and then she'd correct me. And every time I got corrected from her, and she's in the booth, you know, and I'm here doing the thing, she told me, oh, you forgot a the or something. And I went, oh, and I laughed.

Yeah, whatever. It's part of the process.

And every time I laughed. And then I started thinking, I'm hearing myself because I can't— I have earphones. Yeah. So now you're hearing yourself. And now something was computing. And that is that I laugh at my mistakes. Like, that's what happened in Laugh-In. Sure. If I had read that cue card properly and gone all the way, then I wouldn't have been laughing. But I started laughing because I got it wrong. And I said, could I do it again? And he said, no. No, that was it.

So that was it. That was the take.

So that was the take.

That was laughing. It worked perfectly.

Yeah, and it worked perfectly, but I realized that's the natural instinct I have, which is not to run away or cry or whatever, but it's just to laugh.

Well, here's the thing. It's so— Perfectionism is the— what is it? Is the something of good, right? Is the enemy of good.

Is the enemy of good, yes.

Yeah, and the thing is, and I tell people this all the time, and I say this in the book too, if you are a perfectionist, the problem is humans aren't perfect, and you, you will search for being perfect the rest of your life because humans were born imperfect.

Exactly.

You can't get there. That is an unachievable goal.

It's unachievable.

It's unachievable.

Okay, so one more story. Please, tell 10 more stories. I was in 3rd grade, and I was a ballet dancer, and I danced for years and years and years, and then I would dance professionally, and that's where I was You know, discovered. But at any rate, I was— A ballet dancer. I was a ballet dancer.

I thought you said belly dancer. No, no, no. I was in 3rd grade and I was a belly dancer. Seems young, but whatever.

Classical ballet. And I was very serious about it. But I used to make up dances in the living room. And my mom's friends would come over, whatever, and they'd say, do a dance. So I'd turn on the Victrola and I'd get a dance and I'd do something, you know, that was improvised. In the meantime, I I was in 3rd grade and I was doing the talent show and I was going to make up my dance on the— for a talent show. No, no choreographed show, just anything I felt. And Mrs. Toomey, my teacher, said, all right, boys and girls, now I want everybody to be perfect. And I went home and I said, Mom, I'm not going to do the show. And she said, why? I said, because I'm not perfect. And, and Mrs. Toomey said we have to be perfect. Oh. And so my mother, of course, went to school.

Called Mrs. Toomey.

Uh, excuse me, Mrs. Toomey. And I was sitting there. You tell me why you tell kids they have to be perfect. Who's perfect? Are you perfect?

Right, right.

This was my mother.

Yeah.

And she said, well, Goldie, I didn't mean you were gonna be perfect. I said, well, that's what you said. And she said, I didn't mean that. She said, well, please do the show. So my mother brought the— I don't know why she brought the record, but it was a 78 record. Well, she put it on the chair and then she sits down and breaks it.

Breaks the record.

So, talk about imperfect. Anyway, I did, and that's imperfect. And there I did the talent show anyway. Mrs. Toomey cried. Oh my God, she was crying because I was dancing on stage and I saw saw her, you know. But you see, she said the wrong thing, right? And I was a child. That could really be true, is that I'm, I'm not perfect. So that's an interesting, uh, a story along with perfection, of when you know you're not perfect, then don't ask yourself to be perfect.

Don't ask yourself to be perfect. You might as well ask yourself to be 6'7 when you're not. Okay, it's in— it's not achievable.

It's not. But, but, but there's a question here, is that I made a lot of movies I was basically a big loud voice in a lot of movies I produced. I say it because it wasn't going right, and there were script changes that need to happen.

There always are.

And I was very, very direct about it, and I was very clear what should be done. Does that make me a perfectionist?

Well, you weren't trying for perfect. You were— because there's no such thing as perfect in a movie. You're trying to get your vision on the film. And that's what we all try to do with film. We try to take our vision, put it on film, and hope someone likes it on the other end. And half the time they do, and half the time they don't, right? Yeah. It just is what it is. Yes, exactly. So, so, you know, you work with Steven Spielberg. He directed your first movie, right?

Exactly. And he says to me, because I approved him, it was his first movie. Yeah. And he said, because of you, Goldie.

Yeah.

I got to be directing. I went, it's not because of me, okay?

Well, partly.

Well, but we're— no, he's very talented.

Turns out he's a multi— he's a very talented director. Oh my God. You know, but he wouldn't say he ever made a perfect movie. He wouldn't say that.

No.

He'd say there's some things I made better than others, and sometimes the public liked it and sometimes they didn't. I mean, it is what it is. That's true. Look, I think—

He's grounded and centered.

He is.

Yeah. And this is what you want.

I mean, I think he made a spectacular West Side Story. And I thought the cinematography of the dance scenes was the best I have ever seen in any film. That said, the public went, meh, didn't love it. It's fine. The critics, meh, didn't love it.

Yeah, you can't tell.

There is no perfect. What is perfect? It's art. There's no, you know, is Picasso perfect? No, it's just Picasso. It's subjective, right? Yes, exactly. No matter what you make, not everyone's gonna like it. So I think an artist who strives for perfection is really in for a big fall. Yeah. Don't do that. Just put your art out there, and sometimes they love it, sometimes they don't.

Exactly. Exactly right.

You know, this book isn't perfect. I don't try to be perfect. I just rambled on until I ran out.

Well, but here's the other part. The other part is that you care, and those are 2 very different things, because you care about people. You care to help people, to give them some modicum of wisdom or maybe a pathway. Doesn't mean you know everything, but it does mean that you have an instinct to help.

Do you know, that's— with this book, you're spot on. I hate to interrupt you, but spot on, because all I wanted with this book is that a few people would call me and say, you changed my life. Yeah. And that happened in the first week of the book being out. You changed my life. You changed this at work. You changed this in my family life. You changed— wow. That's it. Done.

Isn't it great?

And you have changed— let's talk about Mind Up a minute. You've changed, I don't know, 8 million students' lives. Give or take. I might be off by a million or two.

Yeah, you're off by— well— Maybe it's 10 million now.

Maybe it's 6 million.

You know, maybe. And I'll tell you why. It's very hard to register who is doing it and who isn't. Right. The data collection is impossible. Right. Because I've heard of people doing MindOp in different countries that I don't even know.

Right.

So, those were times when it was scholastic and they were there. And then, and then people do like— we just got a call from Kuwait where this school there, it's the American school, need it for the children.

Oh, yes, they do.

Because they're in trouble.

And there's some bombs falling from the sky.

There's a few bombs there. Just for their— they're so scared. But that's my point. Kuwait. So you, you start looking at the impact of dropping just a stone in the, in the water. You know, you've got the pebble, you've got all this concentric circles.

You have changed millions of students' lives, however many million that is. It's hard to count. Explain to the audience who doesn't know, because most people know you for your movies, uh, some of the audience knows you for MindUP, right? But, but, but explain to them what MindUP is, why it's so important. the impact it's had on kids, some of the science. By the way, some of the results, which are astounding. I mean, it's clear that this is having an impact. Take a couple minutes and explain this.

Well, MindUP was conceived because of the reason I felt children need to learn about their brain. Because they have no, they can't regulate if they don't understand how their mechanism of their brain works. And we only did 3 parts. We did the amygdala, the hippocampus where we remember. The amygdala is the center sort of emotional brain that goes crazy Knows when we're in danger. And then you've got the front prefrontal cortex, which is our wise owl. And we know that all those little parts, and when they work together well, then everything's copacetic. When you have fear, anger, aggression, any kind of sadness, loss, children come in with all kinds of issues, right? And they're just, they don't understand. They can't even name it half the time. But they're dysregulated. And what's happening, they're learning now that the amygdala, which is symbolized by a barking little barking terrier, barks when we are in danger, right? But it also barks when we're in high emotional states. And that means that when he's, oh, and he's barking like that, then the prefrontal cortex goes offline. And this is just an fMRI truth, is that when you are— Interesting. Angry, excited, scared, whatever, You get disconnected from everything. You get disconnected. So the prefrontal cortex goes dim.

Now you're a caveman.

Yeah. Now you're totally reacting. No regulation. Yeah, no regulation. It's like when the thing goes off, the alarm goes off, what you do in the house, you run, you forget whatever it was. Was it my keys? No, it was my— you're not thinking. So the children have now a knowledge about what happens when they get excited or they're feeling angry or whatever. Okay. On the other side of it, they know the hippocampus is where we memorize. hold our memories, and a lot of our feelings are held there too. So with that, this is what the teachers are learning. The children, this is not, it's only teacher-facing, and children are not in AI. They're not learning anything that way. It's only through a human being. And the teacher now is learning this, and she learns the various different things and how to keep it alive in the classroom. How's your amygdala today? Is your prefrontal cortex on, guys? Keeping the language going.

That's interesting.

Having all, 'cause the language is what the kids remember. And then also you do the brain and then the kids can explain things. The other part of this program is a brain break, which is extremely important. The brain break is not a meditation. The brain break is every brain needs a break. And the children know in the morning they come after the beginning of school, the first thing their teacher does is sit down and we do a brain break. Mm-hmm. What we do is hit a chime. There's also a chime on the computer. The reason we have that is the sound is where the brain gets to focus. So now we're focusing the brain on one thing. The idea is to strengthen focus awareness. But if you don't have exercises like that, you're not doing it for the brain. Mm-hmm. So that's why we listen to it as long as we can, kids, and then can't hear anymore, then turn your hands over. And then all we do is follow Our simple breath in and out. And when thoughts come into your head, and this is a little bit of a meditation type of thing, but it's true. The brain thinks all the time and we let them know your brain is going to think all the time because that's what brains do, right? But now we have to follow our breath. If you have a thought, cool, let it go like a cloud. Come back to your breath. Only one more minute. So that's 3 minutes, 2 times a day and one breathing exercise before they go home. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So this is called habituation of activity. So when you habituate the brain break through the day, the children ask if the teacher forgot it. They love it. And they're calm. It calms them. But they know what's happening in here. And that's the better part. They have cognitive awareness. I know that my amygdala is quieting down, my little barking dog. And I know that my prefrontal cortex is now ready for learning. And so it's a reset for learning, but it's also a reset for your stress factors. Because in our research, our children were great in terms of our cortisol study. The control group went below baseline. They couldn't control anything. Mm-hmm. So we learned a lot in our research. So the research itself is really— children play better together, so there's better community in the classroom. They have better math and English scores. reading scores rather. They had areas of which that they could actually make themselves happier, which was interesting. And all of some of these studies that we did were pretty incredible when we came out of it to learn what these children could do. And also empathy was important. So we're not even mentioning the word empathy. We're just creating this. So that's what we do. We also have what you would call Acts of kindness that we do in the classroom. All of this builds neurons. So as we are building these experiences, we're also supporting the neurological connection. Everything's about brain. And the kids love this program and it's simple and easy to learn. This is not hard, which is why we've now done an AI condensed version of the simple lessons that you can do and see it over and over again. with a companion that will say, I'm a grade 2 teacher, what— how do I do this? So it's all come back together, which you and I have talked about. But, but, but this is the kind of thing we're growing with the time. But remember, teacher-faced, right? Not in the classroom, right?

Right, right. Yeah, however you are instructing the teacher is here, and then the teacher is giving these instructions and reinforcing them with the kids.

Exactly. Which is critical. Which is critical. Which

is critical, and that's because that's where the relationship is. That is a human relationship that's going on. Yeah, exactly. What fascinates me is when you talk about this, you go, well, this is obvious. These kids need to learn about their brain in this way. I mean, they learn about the physical brain in 4th grade or something. It's there, but they don't know what any of it does, right?

They don't have an experience.

No, they have no experience of it. There's your physical brain. They're learning about it like the heart and like the feet and like everything else, the biology of it. But when you say this, you go, well, why isn't every school in the world doing this? Because we need to teach the kids how to access their brain, what parts of their brain actually light up when certain things happen, how they can calm them down, because these are life skills they need.

They're life skills.

They're life skills they need. And people who have those skills, we used to say people who have great EQ are the ones who make it to the C-level, right? Make it in the world. And make it in the world. And that has generally held true. And the reason for that is, let's say you're on a team at work, and there's 20 of you, and the boss leaves, and they're looking at someone to promote. No one's going to promote the ass. No one's going to promote the mean person. No one's going to promote someone that doesn't get along with anyone. Right. And typically, let's say you've got a team of generally everyone's got similar IQs. Well, the only way you're going to differentiate yourself is with EQ. You've got much more emotion, much more sensing, much more ability to listen, all of those skills. And that's what you're sort of training the kids is, how do I even, even in a tough time, even in times of I got a bad score on a test or whatever, how do I regulate this so that I can get along with everyone so that I can be more successful in the classroom?

That's right. It is really interesting, and that was part of the research that was so extraordinary is that the children worked much better together in the classroom. Of course they did. That was great. So this is fantastic. And then just quickly, the book that I have coming out, there's 4 of them. This is the second one, Penguin, called After School Kindness Crew. These are the cutest kids ever. And there's 3 of them. And they're all just, everybody's just a little different. But it's all based on MINDUP principles. So they do a brain break and it's all written, every book. And then they do perspective-taking.

So they go through this in the book?

They go through this, but they do it through experiential things, not lessons.

Yes.

So that's the difference. It's like when they feel excited, there's a woman in there, a teacher with school. She says, let's do a brain break now, guys, because your brain is— you all are worried about the— not the test, but it was a— what is it? Right. Basketball tournament. But my point is, is that I love it because it's taken very skillfully, like acts of kindness. Well, it's called Kindness. We do acts of kindness in the classroom. We do gratitude journals, right? We do. And all of these things are touched upon. And this next book is about a basketball game that they're all afraid about. And then they have a scary, scary house. Well, they think an old man, a terrible scary, all kinds of stuff in it. They talk about him. He never comes out. And they very bravely knocked on the door and found out he was the nicest person ever. He was just sad. He was knocked off a team when he was very, very young and professional. Yeah. He just gave up the game, basketball. And it was— they found out he was a basketball star. It was a whole— how could I possibly think that just because he was in a funny house meant that he was a bad person.

Right.

And that's the story.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

I know.

You can judge this book by its cover, but— I know, look, I love your book. So really, I mean, what I wanna say, which I've said to you, but, you know, probably isn't out there in public as much, is that much of Hollywood, many, many Hollywood, every Hollywood star has had some nonprofit that they started And I don't know, a couple years later it's dead. You know, they've moved on, it didn't go anywhere or whatever. And this cycle is common, right? Everybody wants to do good and then they find it's really hard to do that.

It's really hard.

You have to hire people, you have to fire people, you have to cycle people, you have to really stay on it. You have to raise money. You gotta raise money, a lot of money. People don't understand these things are millions a year. They're not $50K a year, right? So I have watched So, so many friends in Hollywood try to do these and, and they, they just typically fizzle out. It's not bad. Or they, they realize it's a full-time job almost, right? And yet here you are, you've done it. It's 23 years-ish?

Yeah, just about.

Yeah, about 23 years. And, um, and done it very successfully. And you are maybe one of the very few people who have done that. I mean, this— it's, it's a full second career. It is a full-time job on top of everything else. And, and you had your acting career. I think you will have more acting career, but you've had your acting career.

Well, it's funny about that because I, because I was doing something so important, I didn't even look back. I will say today it would have been fun to do a few more things, but now— but I wasn't there then. I knew this was important, right? It was a calling, basically, and it still is a calling. I can't believe it.

What you've done is successful. Yes, I did. Yes. I mean, kudos, because, yeah, I'm— that's what I'm trying to explain is like most people start out great intentions, they find out this is a full-time job and it's really hard and, and they have to put it aside, right? And you just said, no, this is too important to the kids. And so you've done it successfully, you know, frankly, as a true leader, as really a CEO basically running this, uh, uh, MindUP, uh, organization. I know you have people that run it with you and such. But, you know, congratulations. This is because no one, almost no one else that I can think of has ever done it, something like this. And you went and did it. And I don't think most people know the success level that you've had. Yeah. And how good of a leader you are and how caring of a leader, but also with a high bar. You know, you do have a high bar. Not everyone makes it to that high bar, and that's okay. But you're doing it for the kids, and it's— and the outcomes You know, are in the millions. That's what I mean. It's like, there's nothing negative you can say about this. You want to try to pick on it, but it's just amazing. And now you've got books coming out, children's books, that are helping the children understand this in new ways. New ways, yeah. And find this idea in new ways. This is like, it's, it's, this isn't one in a million, it's one in— it's the only one.

Oh, sweetheart. You know, sometimes I— it's been a long time, and I thought, I'm still talking about the power of the brain. Why I'm not tired of saying that, I don't know, because it's been a long journey. But now that I'm at this place, now I'm being called in to talk about brain science for adults.

Right.

For what they call brain economy, for business. And I won't be able to continue that, but at least I have started. The conversation.

Look, I think you can do it for another 20 years.

I love you. I love you.

And you'll be 100 and something out there doing your thing. How's it going?

Where's all the magic?

They're wheeling her in, but she's—

I know.

You know, I mean, frankly, with today's health technology, you know, it's not— 100 isn't a crazy number anymore. We thought it was crazy a few years ago, but not completely crazy.

It's not completely crazy.

Not completely crazy. It might, it might happen. And you've got the energy. I mean, here's the thing. When you walked in, you said this, and we know it's true. You are busier today than you've probably ever been in your life.

Yeah, I am. Also with not just a script. I tell you, this is much harder. When you have a script, the phone rings. Or, well, baby, I may not be that person, okay? I may not be that person because I created a lot of scripts. I produced a lot. I was always working and creating, okay? So maybe, maybe I'm wrong. But I do, I do see how actors work. And they're not always producing and have companies and going to Warner Brothers and driving. No, no. They go to the next set. They're there for 6 weeks. They have a script. They have a timeline. They have what you're gonna do tomorrow. Somebody prints it out for you. Sometimes they have a teleprompter. You even have somebody carrying your purse when you go to your car. I mean, it's, it's not my life. Never has been. So I see how easy that is. You know, even when I see the kids in whatever, Wyatt's going to work now. He's doing a spinoff of Monarch, and that's in Apple Plus. He's in Prague. He's working every day. And I watch him, you know, and it's not hard work. It is hard work. Also, Wyatt cares. He's not just an actor for hire. Yeah. He cares. And he helps write. He does all this stuff.

Your kids are amazing. I mean, my kids are amazing.

We'll talk about the kids. We're not gonna talk about it now. But anyway, but, but, but, honey, thank you for that. I really appreciate it.

No, it's true. It's true. I mean, I'd love to sit here and say there's 28 people in Hollywood who have had just the success you— no, they haven't. You know, you had a huge successful career, uh, actor, producer, a bunch of other things. And then you've had a whole second successful career that you and I know about. Some people know about, most people don't know about. So I just want them to know how successful you

are. Thank you, honey. That means a lot.

You've raised an amazing set of kids. An amazing set of kids. All of them. Well, Kurt and I have. I think I've met all of them. But amazing set of kids. They're all successful in their own right. Take just a second and Share how well your family is doing. You also have a partner who's very successful.

I know.

And after, I don't know, 40-something years together, I think. 43 years.

43 years.

43 years together. I can't even believe it. And it works almost every day.

Yeah, I think that's the way to put it.

Some days not, but almost every day.

Almost every day. I'll remember that when people say, how are you doing? And pretty good almost every day.

You know, you know what, you know, the, the old adage is like, if I can make it 43 years, I can make it 43.1. You know, it's that kind of a game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I say this—

Relationships are.

Every day you, you can always make a different choice, but then you go, oh no, that choice wouldn't be— the grass isn't any greener. You know, these are trade-offs, right?

I mean, you know, there— you can't say that I haven't met a lot of men in my life. And I met this guy, and he's cute as a button. He's about 5 and a half years younger than me. In fact, I met Kurt when I was actually auditioning for a show. I was a dancer at that time. I wasn't known. Mm-hmm. And I went up to a woman on Dopey Drive. I was like, oh, I didn't know where the audition was in Disney. And I went up to her and I said, where is the show? Where am I supposed to— I'm lost. I want to, you know, try out for this.

On the Disney lot.

Yeah. And she was sitting there, she said, I'll show you. And now she showed me, and I was doing it, ended up being Kurt Russell's mother.

Oh, oh my goodness.

I met his mother before I met him. And he was a young, a young guy on the show because he had a deal with Disney.

Yeah, he was a child star at Disney. Mm-hmm. I don't know.

And I was a dancer, so I was I was hired. Yeah. Because she went home and said, this girl, Bond girl I talked to, is gonna get that role. And I did. And you know what the name of the role was? What? The giggly girl. And nobody knew me. I mean, I was just a dancer. I was like one of a dance group, you know? Right. And, and so I got this job, and then I was like, great. And then I saw Kurt, but he was young and weird. And then, um, and then I remember when the show came out— this is the last thing— is that Bill Anderson, who was a big producer at Disney, called me in and he said, we have to bill you, but how do we bill you? Because Goldie sounds like a stripper. Wow. And he said, so could you change your name? And I said, no, no, I'm not. I was not 20 or something. I'm imperfect. I am not changing my name. It belonged to my Aunt Goldie. That's what I'm named for, and she was wonderful, and she took care of my mother. I'll never change my name. He looked back at me, and he said— 'cause I was like a nobody. He said, well— I said, you know, my middle name is Jean. Why don't you call me Goldie Jean Hawn? So that's how I was— Goldie Jean Hawn. Okay. Anyway, so I compromised. So I was doing business then, and I was 20 years old and a nobody.

And that's before Laugh-In.

It was way before Laugh-In.

So, so, so that's kind of when you met Kurt, but you didn't really date for another many, many years.

Oh, I didn't see him. I didn't know him. I didn't even remember him, you know. Right. But when he came in for Swing Shift, which I produced at, uh, at Warner Brothers, um, he came in to read.

Okay.

And he didn't read. He— I just met him, and, uh, we ended up knowing a lot of the same people or whatever, and we just got along so well. And anyway, we had another meeting, and then we had lunch. And then when he left, I remember he looked at me and he said, if I don't get this job, it doesn't matter. He said, but I'd like to see you again.

Oh!

I was so taken! Anyway, he was a cutie. He still is. He still is. He still is. And the kids are amazing. They're all beautiful children. We're all close We love to be together. We spend— we send vacations together.

I mean— So how did you— how did you parent? You know, most parents would, uh, especially in Hollywood, right? It's very difficult to go and go, wow, I ended up with kids who love the family, who want to be with us, they want to vacation together, they want to be with their parents. Most kids don't want to be with their parents. They go, yep, you raised me, I'm gone, right? And, and somehow you What did you do different?

Well, we were fun. I mean, we were fun parents. We did fun things together. And we had a little child in us too. Oh, there were times, you know, where Oliver, you know, did stuff and kids do stuff.

Yeah, they do.

But, you know, I mean, as an example, how often do you really want to get mad at your kids? One time, like, Katie had a party and I went down, it was about 2 in the morning, and I went, guys. But I opened the door, we had a wonderful room, it was so beautiful, called the Raj Room, and it was a very famous room when my kids were growing up because they had their parties there.

This is in Palisades?

Yeah. And I said, I opened the door and all the kids looked like, uh, mm. And I looked around, I saw all these kids that I've grown up with, sweet kids. And I walked around and I turned some lights out and I said, Lighting is everything. And I left and I went back to bed.

I mean, kids have to, you know, kids want to stay out late. They want to do their thing. I mean, that's the thing. You've got to find a—

You can't be mad all the time.

No, no, no, no. You've got to find a balance.

I'm not going to disappoint you, but—

And they need to learn their own way of growing up. And, you know, you don't want them to get in such trouble that they're going to be in jail or they're going to get hurt or something. But they also have to learn their way. They have to feel their way.

It's very interesting in terms of the kids because Wyatt wanted to be a hockey player.

Yeah.

And we went up in Vancouver and he did hockey. And it was great, right? But after a while, he played and played in Europe and he sort of gave his skates up. But he never really wanted to be an actor.

Yeah.

Well, sure enough, that's the job, that's where he went into. Oliver, you know, was, you know, basically there's no way he wasn't gonna go into acting. Right. It's what he wanted to do. And Kate was, you know, asked before when she was in high school if she would do stuff. They already saw her and whatever. And I said no. I said, you're going to school.

Yep.

And you're gonna have a normal high school life.

Yep.

You're not gonna be a young kid that suddenly is acting. Right. No, no. I said that, then you will act forever. But if you start as a kid, not gonna work, and a girl. So you're done. It's true. And she was a little pissed off at me, but that's okay. I said, you'll thank me. And, but we support each other. We love each other. We make each other laugh. You know, make sure you're not angry all the time with your children because they're gonna piss you off. But have a bigger sense of humor about— remember where you were when you were an adolescent. And it's not hard today. It's not, I mean, not easy being an adolescent. It would be more caring. And they shut the door in your face, which they do, or they get mad and say things.

Especially as teenagers.

Then know that they'll do that and say, it's not very nice to say that, but I understand why.

Because we did it.

Don't be—

By the way, we did it too. We weren't perfect as teens.

No, no, we were terrible.

At all. And then I look back and say, oh, I was so mean. But I was learning, you know.

Well, that's because your brain is pruning. Yeah. I mean, their whole adolescent brain looks completely different than ours. And they have to learn that. And that's what we're teaching in the 6th, 7th, and 8th grades.

Right.

Learn about what's going on with your brain, guys, because sometimes you're going to do crazy things. Sometimes you're going to be up high and happy and down the next. Emotions go like crazy. And here's what happens. Here's what's going on. You got a lawnmower going over all these connections that you don't need anymore.

Right.

And that's what happens. And you know what? If you make mistakes or things like that, you probably will. Please forgive yourself because you've got a brain that's in construction. So that's the way we look at it. Anyway, so love your kids, kiss them a lot, and know that they're going to make mistakes. I remember saying to my kids, I know you're going to try pot. I know you're going to try this stuff because that's what you do. But I did once, and I had a terrible experience. I wish I could have called my mom.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I would. But you couldn't call.

You couldn't. You couldn't call your mom because no, my mom would have gone through the roof.

Yeah, but she doesn't wouldn't even understand it, and I wouldn't have been helped, right? Because it was it was scary because you know it's a whole other story. But if that happens to you and you feel this, please call me.

Yeah.

I will never tell. I will never— I will be here for you.

Yeah.

That's what they need to know.

Yeah. And my dad was like that. I was— he was a great man. He just, he just passed away a year ago.

Oh, wow.

91. And, you know, he was always, no matter what kind of trouble you get into and what you've done out there, teen, you know, I was out with the car and I was out late and I was, I was drummer, so I was out playing. I was playing gigs. And yeah, he says, I don't care, I don't care if it's 3 o'clock in the morning, you call me. And if you need me to come get you, you need— no questions asked, I'm always here for you. Now my mom would have yelled at me, right? Which, you know, which, which he knew. But he says, no, I'm always here for you. Where— and he was a great father like that.

See, it's wonderful.

High bar. Yeah, you know, was in the Army. I mean, but, but you could trust him. And he said, you just You just come to me. We're your parents. I'm gonna be here. We're gonna take care of it, right? And you'll be fine, and I'll come get you. And so that kind of trust is, is something that I think it's a good lesson.

It's really important. It really is. And I love you. I trust you, and I trust you with all my heart. And that's another part of friendship.

It is. It is. Well, we have a couple more things to talk about, and then we're gonna We're gonna time out. What time is it? We've talked about so many things. 10 of.

Oh, 10 to 12?

Yeah.

Okay.

We got another few minutes? I think so.

I have 12 o'clock call.

Do the call here.

I will.

Yeah, do it right here and then it's easy. Oh, so this book in a way is a reflection of Mind Up, but it wasn't really meant to be. It's just that the science turns out to work for everybody, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. It wasn't like, let me read Mind Up and then write a book for adults. It wasn't that. It's like, I know the Mind Up, but then you look at all the science behind Mind Up and you go, the science has said this for decades. This isn't new science. We understand— Exactly. We understand a joyful mind and a happy mind allows you to be a better self, that's, you know, and achieve more success. So, in a way, what the book does is it says joy comes before success and you will never reach your peak success without it. it. You will not reach your peak success without it because you're digging yourself out of the Grand Canyon, right? As you teach the kids. What's interesting about that and what we try to talk about in the book a little bit is there are things in your life that you might have to shed, and those are the joy killers. And there are joy killers that you don't have actually any control over. So, the first thing is stop worrying about things that you have no control over. Because, you know, people worry about who's in office right now. People worry about all kinds of things. You kind of got to stop worrying about that because those worries are taking you down. There are people that I know, and it doesn't matter who's in office at one time, that I know some, you know, on one side, some on the other. Yeah. They can't get out of bed in the morning. Why? Well, I can't get out of bed just based on what's going on with X, Y. Okay. Are you going to run for office? No. You can run for president? No. Get out of bed. You know, we got noted, but you, but, but you, but you know, you're not going to reach your peak success. And, um, one of the things that helps you reach peak success, uh, that we talk about is joy positive, right? Is curiosity.

Yeah.

Because you were curious about the human brain. So curious you went and found the scientists and talked to them and did all the studies and everything else. Like, you were really curious about it. And what I see is people stop— so many people stop learning, like, after college. college. Well, yeah, I learned in college and now I just do my job. No, the brain is, is this sponge and it wants to be curious, right? It's so cool. And so, why not be curious about everything? Like, you're so curious about AI right now because we've talked a lot about that and we've done some things. And, um, I love that curiosity. And yet, I see so many people at all ages go, well, I don't want to know anything about that. Did you say that about the internet? Did you say that about smartphones? Because I'm sorry, this is here. And you don't have to love it, but you have to be curious about it. And so curious, like, I want to learn everything. I read and read and read all I can because I want to learn about everything. And I keep learning, and I love learning. And I think you do too.

I love it. I mean, I was looking at who were the great philosophers that really talked about memory, because memory is excuse me, a big thing now. Obviously, as you get older, words don't come. But actually, there was studies done on memory. In fact, I was in Prague to see Wyatt over summer.

Yeah.

And we went into the place where they have alchemy, and they created alchemy.

Wow.

And down below, there was a rabbi that was at the top of it, and then all these alchemists were down below, and these was 10 Test tubes and things and stuff, trying to understand stuff. And one of them was memory. So it was much more studied. Well, quite unusually studied back way, way back then. In the meantime, excuse me, they discovered what was an equivalent of ginkgo biloba.

Hmm. Okay.

Very interesting.

Wow.

So this is, to me, it's like, what are people, From all ages, what are we looking at as being discoveries or what Pythagoras said about something? I'm just interested in not just the philosophers, but also in trying to understand what animal feels lonely and what animal doesn't.

Right. People have studied this not just for years, but for thousands of years. Thousands of years. I mean, people have been thinking about this. They spend an entire life I'm just thinking, how does memory work? What we do know is the brain is also a muscle in a way, right? And if you stop using it, which unfortunately a lot of people do, no question, the data are clear on this, is that your memory starts to go. Yeah. Why? Well, because I'm not using those synapse anymore. So they shrivel up and they shrivel back. They say, you don't need me anymore. Right. You're making me lonely. So I think you are too. You said you're the busiest, but I actually think your brain is firing as much today as it ever has. You are as quick, as quick-witted, as funny— I mean, serious— as you would have been 40 years ago. It's really fascinating.

Yeah, we don't feel much different, that's for sure.

No, I mean, we feel in the body. We get up and say our knees hurt, but then that's your, that's your last complaint of the day.

Wait, wait, but my knees hurt, and I get up out of bed and I just go, well, I'm just gonna walk like a ballerina and pretend like they don't hurt. And then after a while, I I feel way better.

You know my view in the morning when I get up? A lot of people complain, I get that. I get up in the morning and go, well, the alternative to no matter what I feel after this was death. So already I'm scoring a home run, batting 100, right? I know. I mean, this is amazing, right? I'm alive, I didn't die. Who cares if there's a little ache or pain? It doesn't really matter. I still have my legs. I mean, be thankful for the things you've got.

Of course, it's just adjust your thinking.

Yes, we're given so many gifts, so then all of a sudden joyful and you say, look at the gifts I'm given. Look at the fact that I can just walk out into a kitchen and get a beautiful breakfast. So there's some people in this world that can't do that.

Yeah, and it might hurt, but so what? Yeah, whatever. I mean, that's how I do it. Whatever. 'Cause it does hurt. Sure. No doubt about it.

Yes, yes.

And I go, oh, I'll put some ice on it. Oh, that'll be fine. Yeah, of course. Whatever. I mean, it's like— Whatever, you have your gifts. If I had to have a replacement, I would have a replacement.

And lots of people do, and that's it. You check the box. It's, it's, it's, it's fine.

But, but you can't. It's the same thing as like fretting over what the, you know, your, this administration, that administration. You can't, you can't control it.

Unless you're gonna run for president yourself one day.

Unless you're gonna run for president.

Then move on with your life.

Then get on with it. You know, it doesn't mean that you don't care. It doesn't mean that you're not incensed sometimes, but that's okay. But then let it go because otherwise it's poisonous to your body.

It's poisonous to your body. That's a great way to say it. I didn't say that in the book. Maybe I'll rewrite the book for one line. It's poisonous. It is poison. I mean, every time you bring all these worries in, and this is— worries, worrying is one of the joy killers. Also, there's people in your life that are joy killers, and sometimes you have to bless them out of your life. Yeah. It's not negative. It's just that— It's just that it's— You know what I say now? Bless them out of your life. But before you do, buy a copy of my book and hand it to them. Because if they follow the book and they had joy all the time, they wouldn't be a joy killer anymore. They're a joy killer because they're complaining and they're moaning and they're this and they're that. And you go, I don't want to be around them.

I don't want to be around it.

I can't, I can't. It's too, it's too harmful.

It's like, and the other part of it is it reminds you of how much you're negatively thinking about the same thing. You can agree on what's going on, but don't agree too long because that will impose itself upon your brain.

I had someone Just a week ago, I was talking to about the book and they had read the book and they said, you know, at work, we're all complaining about our new boss and we just— all we do all day is complain, complain, complain. I said, well, that is not your path to success. Let me give you a couple paths to success. One, stop complaining and say, what am I learning from this new person? Mm-hmm. Because it's a different person. They've got a different personality, different set of skills, different experiences. They're bringing that to you. So, is there joy in learning? Are you curious? Number one. Or number two, quit, right? Yeah. But you can't stay there and complain every day. No, exactly. Because that is not a pathway to success. Exactly. And when you start thinking about it that way, you go, I've either got to get this out of my life or I've got to find the joy moments in what this person's bringing. And I said, is this person mean? No. Well, what's different? Well, they're just different. Great.

Yeah.

How interesting. What can you learn from that? Yeah. All right, we got to wrap up. So I, um, so, uh, I don't know, let's wrap up about the book, I guess. So, you know, you know a lot about this book. You wrote the foreword. You've got, um, it's really based on a lot of the same science that your 23-year program is, is based on. Why do you think people should, should get the book, and how, how do you hope that it helps them in their life?

Well, just what we're talking about. I mean, we're talking about the various things that how books like yours, or importantly in this particular book, will guide you to actually think a little bit differently about how you approach your life. And I think ultimately that joy and happiness is— happiness is fleeting, joy is something deeper, I think, inside. Mm-hmm. But, you know, how we can actually attain or have the intention to actually attain more wisdom about how to be Happy, how to be joyful.

Goldie, thank you. This has just been a blast. You know, we could talk for 10 hours.

I know! This is a blessing.

It's really fun, and I learn so much from you every single day.

And I learn from you too, my darling.

Thank you, love.

Thank you, sweetie.