Strategies to Maximize The power of Day 1 Certainty

Welcome, everyone. Compile in. We're gonna just hold off, give it a couple minutes while everybody jumps in. Where is everybody calling in from? Why don't you drop it in the chat? I'm going to start us off. I'm in Washington, D.C. a lot of interesting things happening in this area. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Salt Lake City, Palm Beach, Florida. I bet there's nobody where you're at. I mean, no offense.

It's just because there's no people up here. Yeah, hey, we got more people in Rhode Island. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Well, if you're from. If you're living in dc, you're basically in Maryland and Virginia. So everybody just assumes. Cool. Jessica got the new hire training class dialed in. I love it.

I love it.

Boston, Tennessee. Very cool. Well, why don't we get started with the introductions? Because, well, while we're doing the introductions, people can still pile in. Hopefully everybody can see my screen. You guys want to just confirm real quick? You can see it, Femi. You can see myself.

I'm looking and I don't see it.

Yeah, good. That was a good start.

There we go.

If that's the only bug that we have today, I'm happy. All right, so everybody, you've come today to talk about strategies to maximize the power of day one certainties, sometimes known as D1C. But day one certainty. And what does that mean? It means you're minimizing risk, reducing operational costs, accelerating loan processing, improving the borrower experience, and enhancing productivity through the power of day one certainty. So, look, the reason we're doing this, because Femi is a good friend of mine and good friend of all of ours. He's with Revolution Mortgage. He runs operations there. We've got Oakley from Encino. Femi uses Encino. He uses Troove. My company, Obviously, Fannie is very important to all of us, and. But Femi particularly. And so we came up with this idea of, hey, you know, we've learned a lot by working together. Why don't we put together a webinar and a webinar series to help other lenders learn from what we've learned. And so that's the whole point of this, everybody. And so thank you for joining us. Let's get into some introductions on each of us. I'm going to start off with Femi. Femi, why don't you give us a little bit about yourself, your company, and something that nobody who's on this call right now knows about you all right?

Well, my name is Femi. I'm EVP of Operations Intelligence and Solutions. Realistically, what that comes down to is I'm trying to help modernize the lending experience for everybody that's out there. Give everybody on Revolution, best in class, best in class options on how to. On how to just manufacture a loan. We want our process to be seamless. We want our process to really help people enhance their experience. We want to limit as much back and forth and just kind of make the mousetrap work as fast as possible. The thing that people don't know most about me is I didn't go bald for the mortgage industry. I started shaving my head in 93 and it really just started falling out when I started making fun of my brother's hairline. So karma got me here.

Well, it's a beautiful hairstyle, man. I mean, I'm just saying.

I'm telling you, we make it look good.

Brooke and Oakley, you guys might want to try it someday.

Yeah. Yeah.

Brooke, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Sure. My name is Brooke Smith. I'm at Fannie Mae. I am a senior manager of Loan Sourcing Digital Solutions. I have been at Fannie mae for about 20 years and my current role is as the product manager for DU Validation Service. And we'll talk about what that is today and this webinar. But just a little background on Fannie Mae. I assume that you all know what Fannie Mae is, but Fannie Mae provides liquidity in the mortgage market. We purchase mortgages on the secondary market. And another thing that I really like to think about with Fannie Mae is that we are really trying to move the needle on opportunities for using technology and data in the mortgage industry. So as a big player in the mortgage industry, it's something that we feel is important and we like to help bring people along as much as possible. I will tell you one thing we are not talking about today. You probably heard a lot about Fannie Mae in the news over the last couple of days. Unfortunately, that's not what I'm here to talk about, but you can read it about the same time that I'm reading it. So you can do that on your own time. But yeah, fun fact about me, or I don't know if it's a fun fact, but if you've, if you've heard me speak, you might already know this, but I started my career at Fannie Mae as an intern. I had a little break after that. But my first job at Fannie Mae was as an Intern while I was getting my MBA at American University. And my project at that time was to oversee and check in with all the technology directors around Y2K. So that's dated me a little bit. If you don't know what Y2K is, it's a thing, look it up. It actually happened, but we all survived it all. So that's my fun fact.

Cool. Oakley, why don't you tell everybody who you are, your company and what. And something fun that they don't know about.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. My name is Oakley Miller. I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah. I've been working at Encino now for almost a year, 10 months now. I'm on the mortgage side at Encino. It's a bigger company but they acquired Simple Nexus a few years ago. Now I'm over the Verifications team, so I'm a product manager on the Verifications team. It's been really cool to learn the space and work closely with true Fannie Mae and different lenders like Femi. And one cool fact about me is I love to golf. I'm a three handicap golfer and last summer I played the old course at St. Andrews, the oldest golf course in the world and was like a bucket list item. So lucky and fortunate to. To check that off my bucket list so early in life.

Cool. Well, you're a way better golfer than I am. I am O yeah man. Three handicap golfer. Wow. I just want to give a shout out to Mike, Leslie, bunch of people that I'm seeing in the, in the audience. Welcome everybody. Thanks for joining us. My name is Richard Greaser. I run marketing some of sales here at at tru. Truv is income and employment verifications. In case you didn't know, we save about 80% against the big incumbent in the space. I'll just leave it at that. And lenders are very happy with their service. If you ask someone like Femi, he'd probably say that there's much better things about us that he likes, like more accurate data, faster loan closings, things like that. But usually people are looking to save operational costs and that's where they come in to start with Troove. And you know, we've been working with Encino. Encino is a fantastic partner and of course Fanny, a really great partner and, and Revolution ties us all together. So this is, I'm really excited for this guys. We have a really good talk track. Oh, you know, I forgot my, my little, my comment that you guys don't know about me. So when I was young I was like 4 years old. I was raised in, in Africa until I was about 6 and I was in at the beach in Senegal and I was eaten by a dead shark. A shark. I literally crawled into a dead shark that had its mouth pried open with a piece of wood and my foot kicked out the the piece of wood and it just chomped on my legs. And you can imagine a bunch of dead shark teeth in your legs is not a good thing in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Right, like right on the beach there. So, yeah, that's a fun fact. You can ask me questions later about me if you want to know more. Let's jump into this, guys. We got a bunch of really good questions. Good talk track. You're going to learn a lot today. Going to be a fast pace. We're going to have some audience participation with polls. So let's just jump into it with the very first question that I'm going to actually tee up to. Brooke, Brooke, tell us please, what is day one certainty and how has it evolved in the role of minimizing risk?

So I find it interesting. I mean, we talk about day one certainty because it has been around for, I think it started in 2016 with the rollout of DU validation service. But day one certainty I think is often considered aligned with validation of income, employment and assets. And I hear a lot of times lenders referring to day one certainty and I think, oh wait, are we still talking about that? So day one certainty has been around. But I also it's not just validation of income and employment and assets. That's one component using DU validation service, which is a component of du, but it is also validation or providing verification using data for appraisal acceptance. So in other words, appraisal waivers that we offer using our collateral underwriter service, which looks at property data and allows us to offer relief from rep and warrants and allow appraisal waiver based on the data that we have internally related to the property on the loan. Day one certainty also includes certainty on the appraised value. So if collateral underwriter based on the property data that we receive has returns a risk rating of I think it's 2.5 or lower that results in reps and warrants or relief from reps and warrants on the property value. So day one certainty encompasses really using data early in the loan origination process to give lender certainty around these components of the loan and that when you go to deliver those loans to Fannie Mae and if you're planning to sell the loan to Fannie Mae that you can get relief from rep and warrant on those components. So that's fundamentally what Day One certainty is. And you know, when we talk about evolution, we are always looking for ways to improve these components. So, for example, with our value acceptance or appraisal waiver, we have rolled out recently a value acceptance plus property data. So that expands opportunities in the value acceptance space, so spans more chances for an appraisal waiver if additional data is provided. And that's really just a kind of a visual inspection, internal and external inspection of the property and data that's been passed back to Fannie Mae to kind of retain that relief from Rep and warrant. Another way that we were evolving Day One certainty and the use of data is through validation of income and employment, not just using a traditional income and employment verification report, but also using an asset verification report where we can observe borrower income streams in that report. So those are just some of the areas that we're looking into and how the Day one certainty has evolved over time. But hopefully that gives you kind of some background on what Day One certainty is. And then I'm sure as we talk through this, FEMI will probably have some points to add around this, but that just kind of gives you some background.

Well, it's really great because we have the lender perspective. Femi, we've got your perspective at Fannie. We've got two vendors, myself and Oakley. So. And it's great because we were just talking about it before we got on this webinar that this audience is full of different folks. So we've looked at the regs list. We've got sales folks, operation, we've got processors, all kinds of different folks in the audience right now, owner, business owners. So a little bit for everybody. And we'll talk at a high level and at a detailed level as we go through. So let's jump into it. Brooke, femi, whoever wants to take a stab first, how does it streamline the mortgage process for both for lenders and borrowers?

I'll hop in first here for a second. Brooke mentioned a couple of times, well, first of all, how am I supposed to follow up getting eaten by a dead shark? Can we just go back to that for a second? I've known you for a number of years right now, and I had no idea what to pick when I'm saying something interesting that nobody knows. There's three things about me. Everybody knows them dead sharp. Okay, here we go. So we're, we're crawling out.

That's. That's that's hey, if you're not smiling on Thursday. Right, right.

The old, I'm gonna call back to that, the old manual. Let me go dig up your tax returns. Let me go dig up your documents so you can get a mortgage. I'm gonna start calling that the dead shark from now. How do we kick our way up? I love it. All right, so anyway, what Brooke had mentioned, using data in the, in the mortgage industry and rep and rep and warrant relief understanding where we are right now. Day one certainty streamlines the mortgage process for the lenders because it gives a definitive answer immediately. So that was the purpose behind their day one certainty. It was the minute that you ran your aus, you could see a validation message that said, stop here, you're done. You don't have to go back and collect another document. You don't have to re verify it a different way at time of closing. You don't have to keep updating a document. You're good for a time period. Understanding the, the rep and warrant relief and utilizing data immediately that's read by your aus is tremendous. So for all the sales folks that are out there, it's understanding that as soon as you've done your, your pre approval and you've, you've interacted with your consumer, you don't even have to say, hey, I've been getting these same documents since 1976. Send me the list. If we already have the information, you can just skip that step. You can really bring it forward so that we're moving into an actual digital experience and that you understand the certainty right off the bat. I don't know what's going on with my income. I've got five different sources. You can run it. You can see a validation message on your AUS that says you're calculated to this amount and from this amount we're good. So underwriters don't have to go back and check that amount. Post closers don't have to go back and check that amount. Not going to get hit with an email from, from something six months later down the line that says, hey, this loan you closed back in 1986 is not performing. What did you do to validate this information? Day 1 Certainty really gives us the spot where we don't have to check the checker anymore. And one of the really cool things that Brooke mentioned while they're starting to use their data is Fannie has data from so many sources right now that we're able to do new things. We're able to use things like asset data. To improve the amount of, I'm sorry, asset histories. To improve the amount of approved eligible findings we actually get within files were able to use the assets to identify whether or not somebody's still employed and be able to utilize that for. For their 10 day verifications. We're able to use the ACE Plus PDR reports to actually say, you know what, we don't need to spend 700 on this appraisal because the properties transferred in an area that we have 9,000 transfers in the last two years and we have the data, so we're comfortable with the value. So the real thing is it's empowerment for folks in the front. It's being able to say, I've got my data, I've got my information, I know exactly what I need to do moving forward. And that's the real benefit for day one certainty.

Love it. Right before Brooke goes. Brooke, are you going to jump in right there or. I just want a really quick answer. Kimberly has a great question she asked and I think it's a fundamental part of understanding day one certainty. At any time can day one change during the loan process while under contract. Now either of you can take a stab at that. Go for it.

Well, I'll start on this one and I'll say it's important to understand what you're using it for and that if you don't use it correctly, you can lose it. So let's stick with an ACE pdr. So right off the bat, you run through your aus, you put in your purchase contract and then you run your file and. And it says you've got ACE+PDR. If somebody is in your process and they manually order a 1004 and that 1004 gets registered and the SSR gets uploaded, you're going to lose your ACE PDR because there's going to be record of an appraisal that's actually done. So that's something that's important. If you have day one certainty for income, right, and your income says the calculation is $5,922 and you change that number to $5,953, you can lose your reps and warrants. So it's understanding that you're calculated within a specific tolerance and you have to follow the messaging in order to take advantage of the tolerance.

Excellent.

Guys has got jokes.

I love that he's there too. Brooke, did you have anything you wanted to add to that?

No, I think. Well, Femi, you spoke about it beautifully from a perspective that I don't have. So I love That I think the only thing I would highlight is around, you know, when we think about streamlining the process, we're talking about upfront and we're talking about post closing and the QC involved around that. And so I just, I think we can talk about this a little bit more. I know, Femi, you touched on it, but when you do get those, that verification of income and employment and you don't need to do that post closing reverification and so just kind of reminding everyone that that's a benefit, that sometimes we forget about that we're talking about streamlining upfront, but we're also streamlining in the back end as well.

Let me just throw something out there, everybody. There are some really good questions coming in here right now, like technical questions for people to really understand about it from lenders that I know that, that just tell me. That's really great that we're doing this and we should do it more often just so people learn. So there's a couple questions I'll ask from my buddy Dave. If you have an ace for a certain type of property type and the property type is incorrect, you may lose it. He's just validating what you just said, Femi. Right?

So yeah, the point there is data is king. And there's something that I'm going to say throughout this webinar that I've been on the road to conferences with you guys for the last couple of weeks and I've learned that mortgage companies really need to move forward from document companies to data companies. We're collecting the documents so that we have a record of the data and can go back to it later and say, see, this is what we got. If we can get the data from an immutable source, we have the data. Let's stop there. So I'm really gonna go on this, I'm gonna go on this journey for as long as people will tolerate me in really trying to upgrade companies from document companies and into data companies and understanding that. So the question from Dave was really, you know, if you mark something as a, as not a pud, but you move it to a condo, can you lose your reps and warrant or can you lose your a bdr? Can you lose your information? And it's possible to do that. So I want to stick with that and say if you work with the partners that are on this call, it'll actually end up getting better quality data. And that's what we're really, really looking for. Because if the information is right when it goes in, that means the output's right. If the information's wrong, the output doesn't really matter.

Right.

Then you're back to 2007 and you're saying, oh, my AUS said it was acceptable. Yeah, but your AUS wasn't based in reality. It was based on, you know, Figma numbers that somebody wrote up while typing an application. So there's a bunch of cool stuff like that. But Richard, I know you want to get into these for anybody that's got real super specific questions that are, how do you do this on my one particular loan you guys all know you can get with me after? And we'll, we'll be happy to jump in, dive in and figure out how to help.

Hey, just fan music giver, go right to LinkedIn. Actually, he don't go to LinkedIn.

He doesn't go to LinkedIn.

He's not on there. He's not on there. I'll put his email or something like that in the chat and you can hit him with a note. But Jill, let's see, Jill, Mark and some of the other folks that are asking pretty specific questions. I'm going to save your questions towards the end because I do want to make sure we get some through some of the questions we've teed up and we might answer them actually as we go through. But real quick, I'm going to tee this, this one up for Encino. How does Encino help lenders like Femi, like verify income and employment through the DU validation service using data like, you know, like from Truth?

Yeah.

Can I give that to Oakley?

Yeah, fun way. Because currently what you're doing right now.

Right, people interact with lenders, but they don't interact with the lender software. Every one of us lenders are out here and we have a POS that connects to the consumer. That POS that connects to the consumer is where Oakley steps in. Because they are our face, they are our experience. Every lender that's out there and says, hey, I can send a link. This is where we can get it. We're putting our trust in the hands of that POS and that great team at Encino. And we use the folks at Encino we have since inception and we will for some time into the future. I'm excited to say it. Oakley, tell us about how, how you guys really are the face of all the lenders at the POS level.

Yeah, 100%. And I think, Brooke, Femi, you did an awesome job of speaking to how D1C can help from the lender side. I can speak A little bit to the borrower side. So I was doing a verification D1C demo this morning for true for one of our lenders. And it's really cool because right now we can actually embed those verification providers right within the loan app. So we went through the flow, put in the credentials, the borrower was able to connect to their payroll provider. We go through, we get all the D1C certified data right into the LOS. So as soon as the loan app's submitted, we get documents in the documents tab. The lo can go in CW2s pay stubs. Voie reports all of that data is also pushed to the los. I think it just helps get the underwriting process started sooner. It also just eliminates the back and forth. So los aren't having to get on the phone, send back and forth emails with the borrowers trying to get these W2s pay stubs and bank statements. It's just super streamlined, makes it super easy. I think borrowers are becoming more and more willing and comfortable with the idea of connecting their bank statements, connecting their financial accounts via platforms like this, connecting their employers via platforms like this. So I think it's totally a game changer and we're seeing, like, great adoption in the POS right now that we're super excited about.

Love it. Love it. How about we wake up the audience real quick with a poll? You guys think that's a good idea?

Let's do it.

All right. Well, we got a lot of chatter, so it's good. I think people are engaged, but I like to get the audience involved. So I'm going to ask one favor to the audience. I realized after I loaded these polls that I didn't actually leave the option in case someone's not using Fannie. So I would ask you, like, hey, if you're not actually using Fannie, why don't you not answer this poll even though you do will be you. That's funny.

You will be by the end of this phone call.

Yeah, I know. I know you will be by the end of this phone call. So I would just say I want to know from the folks that are using, are using it. Like, what's your yes, what's a yes, and what's a no? Do you know what percentage of your loans have rep and warrant relief? And I'll just give that. Let's just give that like 30 seconds. Femi, I'm sure you know the answer to that.

I'm gonna. While this is. While this is filling up, I'm going to throw a shameless plug for Fannie Mae Connect. That's their information. For, for those of you guys that are sitting in the chair and you're sitting in my chair, or you're a little higher up on that totem pole, or at least, well, I'd say a little lower down on the, on the direction that stuff rolls. Use your, use your BI tools and understand you can log into Fannie Mae Connect and not only can you see your percentage of files that have reps and warrants, you can actually see the percentage of files that you're taking advantage of. So if you come up and say, hey, I had, you know, 14% of my files that had access for income reps and warrants, you can go back then through and say, how many times did we utilize that? And if you come back and say it's seven, you know, you got to hit the brakes and say, what are we doing? It's especially important on things like ACE plus pdr because you have a lot of people that get through the manufacturing setup and they are just stone cold, yes, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this every single time. And they're doing it by rote. And they may not be taking advantage of understanding what those messages mean on their AUS feedback. So it's really important for, it's really important for the operations teams and for your underwriting managers and for, for people that are really help in charge of making that manufacturing flow move faster to understand what's going on with that and then to figure out ways to leverage it. How can we make sure that if we have an ACE Plus PDR, we always utilize it and save the customer $300 in that transaction? How can we, how can we, how can we leverage the chance of getting day one certainty for anybody that's out there, that's just saying, hey, you know, my daughters provide all my documents on day one, and it's the cleanest document file you'll ever have. Well, if you have all your documents and you don't have any of them from the consumer permission data source, you're never going to get your D1C. Like, it's just not going to be there. You may have a great process, but you may not be taking advantage of some of the speed and reps and warrants and efficiencies that can really help the company by saying, I'm doing it the way that I've always done it. Leaning into, you know, you got to get out of that dead shark. You got to start leaning into saying, how can I get the Data in this particular fashion from my POS provider. How can we, how can we plug in Cino into Troob or another consumer permission data provider so that we can really get those documents and then really start to leverage where that day one certainty is.

So Femi, can I just jump in on that just to make sure that everyone's clear? When you say Fannie Connect or FM Connect, that is a, a reporting tool. It's a tool that we have at Fannie Mae that allows lenders to look and see what different reports about the performance and how their loans are being used. And we do have a really cool new tool that's. I hope that I'm guessing you're using this for me. I'm guess, but it's a kind of an executive dashboard with little cards that you can add so you can add different pieces of information that you're interested in, like how many of your loans are using DU validation service. So in other words, how many loans have a verification of income report on them? So that's what FEMI is talking about. And I think it's a really kind of very cool tool that we offer to give you some insight into how you're using these services.

I want all the revolution people on this call to realize that Fannie Mae just said I'm cool.

I'll just say, I'll just say this right now. Look, it's cool. You get a lot of people giving shout outs to you, Oakley, and to you Femi. So great job guys. If you're watching this right now and I'm going to tee up the next question for Femi, you can see right now the majority of folks, by far the majority of folks do not know what percentage of their loans have rep and warranty relief. Right? And you just got access to a tool that can solve that for you. What I'd like FEMI to do in terms of a lend from a lender's perspective is in your own words as a lender. And I'm going to jump into the next next question because it's related to the poll. What are the benefits of day one certainty? Why should people be looking at that KPI of what percentage of their loans have what rep and warranty relief? Why should people be looking at that very closely and making sure that percentage goes up by 1% regularly? Right? Like why is that core and fundamental to your operations?

So there's so many levels of where it helps that I'm going to start from the front and move backwards. All right, so starting at the Front at customer acquisition. So at customer acquisition if you're involved in the POS and you're in Encino and you guys get to the portal, it's dynamic, you go through, you fill out the thing from true, we get the information back and let's say we just get the verification of assets or the verification of income documentation. You'll, the loan officer will say hey, I've got my data. You know, maybe I did review my 10 03, maybe I just imported it and went straight to my pricing engine in my, in my, in my auspic. When you run that aus, you can come up and get exactly what you're looking at in a figure. So if you have variable income it can tell you we are certified to this exact number. So you are comfortable with exactly what you have. There are services that provide day one certainty for people that have tax returns and self employment income. So if you get handed six sets of tax returns and you're looking at them kind of dumbfounded, you can, you can utilize these services to get that certainty. The next step is, is where you get into the processing piece. So in processing if you have day one certainty, that's a document that you don't have to check. That's a document that you may not have to update. That's a service that you don't have to order and that's cost to the consumer that's going to be reduced. If you have an ACE Plus PDR it's going to cost you $295. It's not going to cost you $695 like an appraisal is going to cost.

Right?

You're saving, you're saving direct cost to your borrower right there. And it's awesome. If you have that as a processor, you don't have to place an order for this particular service or the next particular service, right? You can just say I got this, I'm great. Not only that, you can utilize things like the, like the 12 month verification of assets where our system only orders a two month and we and our underwriters see a two month but we're able to pass on to Fannie Mae the chain that, that can pick up things like rental history that can take files that would have otherwise been a refer and move them to an approve eligible. And like that example, the person I said that did a great file and was just caught in the dead shark. I've got the best thing out there and it's all my documentation. If you're getting a referral eligible because you don't have that verification of assets. That's a file that you may not be able to convert because we didn't adopt the technology to say, let's let the data speak to the agency directly. So I think those things are really cool. Then you get into the underwriting aspect or the manufacturing process of it. You know, everybody in here is getting pressed for 30 day contracts, 20 day contracts, 15 day contracts. My other lender screwed this up. This is the rescue deal. You got 10 days to close. Right? We're all in that system. Any single thing you can do that says I don't have to check what the checker already did. You don't have the loan officer calculating the income, the loan officer assistant calculating the income, the. The processor redoing it, the underwriter changing it, somebody else arguing with it. After that, you have the information, it's there, it's set in stone. Underwriter doesn't have to validate it further. That moves them 20 minutes faster through a file, 40 minutes faster through a file, 60 minutes faster through a file. So you get speed there. Then you start getting into where are the real operational efficiencies. So people come to you, Richard, and say, hey, how can I lower my cost 80% from the incumbent? That's a byproduct of what we're doing. That's not the purpose of what we're doing. The purpose of what we're doing is speeding up that manufacturing process and improving the customer's experience. The money savings is a byproduct of successfully doing that. If you're not reordering a service that's giving you outdated information, you're not wasting the time doing it, you're not wasting the money doing it. And you're able to say, hey, this has rep and warrant relief. My QC team doesn't need to look at it. My post closing team doesn't need to look at it. Once it's shipped to the investor, the investor is not going to come back and argue and say, we calculated 13 cents. You got 15 cents. Tell me why. That's the whole purpose to. As these things keep going, they follow the loan as a record and they are the source of truth that says, this is the number we can use it. So every step in your process gets faster, every step in your process gets more efficient because you move from documents to the data, and it's the data that matters. Fannie's been calculating data on properties since these SSRs came out. And I've been so excited to see, hey, they've upped it so that higher LTV loans are eligible for rep and warrant relief. They're eligible for these value acceptances. They're really utilizing their data and the more we feed them, the more that's going to really come up. It'll make their, their, their database bigger. It'll make them be able to widen the box of this is the acceptable target. This is the acceptable target. This is the acceptable target. Until we get to the point we're really pushing data for mortgages as opposed to pushing documents for mortgages.

Awesome.

That was all I do. Brooke, how did I do?

Great. I have a couple of other points I think I love to get the lender perspective. And this is, I have one additional point that's kind of a lender and a Fannie benefit. So when we think about the post delivery after the loan is sold during our, you know, loan quality reviews post delivery, one of the top findings that we cite for lenders in our mora reviews is inconsistent or incorrect re verifications. So if you think about, if you have verification of income, employment or assets on the loan, you don't need to worry about that in the reverification space. And what we found when we looked at some of the data was that when lenders take advantage of at least one of the Fannie Mae components or tools, the loan is 33% less likely to result in a defect compared to a loan with no form of validation. And if two or more of those tools are used like the verification of income and assets, then the loan is 50 to 70% less likely to result in a defect. And if you think about that, I mean, that's a cost savings, a risk savings along with just an efficiency savings.

I didn't even get to the more review. Thank you so much for saying hey, after post closing, after post closing, by the way, when we just come in here with the Roto Rooter, we're going to be real nicer to you if you're utilizing these. I like it.

Exactly.

Yes.

Well, I love that you shared those stats and I think that's useful for everybody here to take away. Femi. Great answer. I'm going to keep driving here. We got a lot to get through and I want to let everybody who's asked questions know I'm going to get to them. Jill, Mark, Kimberly in the Q and A. I've got all your questions teed up. We're going to hold them a little bit towards the end. Okay guys, don't worry. We're going to get them. All right, so let's do this, I'm going to jump to the next one. Where do lenders often struggle with implementation? And I'm actually going to take a stab at this, answering my own question like a tool, but I'm going to do it anyways. So, you know, from what, what I see is typically like our best customers have someone like Afemi who is empowered to make change in the effect, change in the organization. That's my answer in a nutshell. I said the difference. If you let people just do willy nilly what they want, you're gonna, why you're not gonna get anything different than what you've been getting, right? So when we have like a strong leader who can put a process in place and say this is the process, this is what we're all going to follow, here's why, and they get everybody bought into it. We see a lot of success when we see people who just say, here's this new process or service and we're just gonna say it's available to you, use it if you, if you want to or don't. That's not a good way to do it. Right. So typically people are going to take the, the path that's easiest. And it's just, I'm going to keep doing what I've always done. You gotta really get the organization behind it. It should be a little bit of top down and bottom up to affect change and it's worth it in the end. You just have to be able to show why you're doing it. So that's, that's my perspective on that.

Go ahead. Femi, can I hit a shameless plug for Encino here?

Yeah. All right.

So understanding is where do lenders often struggle with implementation? It's going to be when the process changes. Every time something changes. Every one of these loan officers is so, is so tied to only being as good as their last deal. If you have a negative experience, it can really impact your reputation and your ability to solicit deals. And that's where people come in that they're resistant to change. They're resistant to change because they found a process that works. And if you monkey with their process, you're monkeying with their reputation. So understanding partners like Encino that can say, we've vetted the technology, we understand where it is and it's secure where it is and we can put it into your ecosystem where you're used to doing this. And then it just becomes how can we get the LOS to understand that they want to be able to improve the process for the buyer, by the way, Mr. Buyer, Mr. First Time Home buyer, you're going to spend the most amount of money you've ever spent before in your life. You've never had any formal education about this and you're a little bit nervous. By the way, I'd like you to give me all your bank account and all your income information right at the same time, you've got to help them understand that what we're after is the data. And that by getting the data into the system specifically from the consumer permission platform through the trusted partners like Encino is really where the security comes in, it's where the process comes in and that's where the lenders can take advantage of it. If you are not using the consumer permission data, you're not going to get access to the to the day one certainty. Items like you may still get the value acceptance with BDR because that's based on zip code, property type, you know, property information. But you're not going to get the AUS flip from refer from the verification of assets with the rent history. You're not going to get the income reps and warrants because we don't have that period through technology that we can pass the data to Fannie Mae and Fannie Mae can say, hey, this is what's wrong. So really I would say where lenders struggle with the implementation is in getting the folks at the field to understand there's real benefit to switching from my existing deadshark document process into this data process. That's the real difficulty. And once people hit that, they start to say, well, where can I get an advantage? Where is this going to help me? There's things that we've done internally at Revolution. You have day one certainty on income, you got a 24 hour underwrite period. Let's do it right. We will find ways to make you guys be more successful by giving us that data. And it's always about, it's always about the loan officer, it's about their experience with the customer and the technology. Companies like Encino really play a huge part in saying this is integrated into your pos. It's at the spot in the ecosystem where it matters, where you're expecting it. Four hours I got corrected. Not 24 hours on, on underwrite. Four hours on underwrite for, for day one certainty. Guys, let me, let me get that right. Thanks Matt.

I love it. Before we go on, Brooke, do you have anything that you want to add to that or.

Well, I was actually looking, I got distracted because I was looking at the the question about how do you explain, explain the process to borrowers. Yeah, I, but I will, I'll just add training. One of the things I had written down when we put folks first posed this question was training, training, training. So that kind of piggybacks on having that change agent, somebody that can help push down and then help train the loan officers and the processors in IT within your organization on how to use these services. But I really like that question about how to explain the process to borrowers. And I think, I'm sure Femi, you have an answer and I'm guessing that Richard, you probably have a process with TRUV to explain how you know how the process is going to work and you could kind of explain what the borrower experience might be.

Yeah, I'll just give two seconds on true. We've talked to some of our best customers who are really good at implementation and specifically as an ello like explaining to the borrowers how to do this. And it's the same as how you would have it automated actually in the pos. If you automated it in the pos. Typically what borrowers care most about these days is not, is actually not just the cost savings, it's also their time. Time is number one. The borrower's time is like by far the most important. And let's be honest, the mortgage loan app can be a pain in the ass and the whole process takes forever and it's like getting your teeth pulled. No offense to everybody who's in this industry. I'm in here too. But, but if you can save them time and by telling them, hey, look, by doing this, you're going to save yourself time later on when you don't have to go pull all these documents again to re verify. And by the way, if you don't do this now, here's this list that I'm going to have to have you do. Right. It's not like a, it's, it sounds like, like a stick, but at the end of the day that's what it is. I'm going to take more of your, it's going to take you more time if you don't do this. That is super effective. Borrowers get it right away. They're like, oh, you're saving me time. That's fantastic. And thank you for doing that.

Yeah. And I think one of the things we forget about is when you think about the big concern that borrowers have with a credentialed model where they're being asked to provide their information, to log into their bank account or to their payroll service. It's around security. But, you know, taking a paper document with your Social Security number, your income and handing it off, you know, was that really secure back in the day, emailing it? Is it really secure? So I think that's another thing that we need to remind ourselves. The data from the back end, we all have these secure connections. We really do care about data security. It's a primary objective for all of us, I think. And so I think reminding the borrower that an email isn't necessarily more secure or downloading your file to wherever, it's not necessarily more secure.

Yeah. Did you have anything you want to add or should we keep driving? Because we could literally spend the rest of this just answering questions. We have enough questions now that we could just say, you know what, let's just have a, you know, like a town hall.

I would say. I would say that the team that you guys have at True has frequently asked questions. They have. They have videos that show exactly what's going on. The Encino team has videos to show how it's integrated into the pos. We can do it where they're placed, where the orders are placed from the processor staff and give them what's going on. And I would say how I explain this to people is I explain. It's like setting up a Venmo just for your employment data or for your asset data. It's a digital token that provides the information and passes it back and forth. That's what I've said to people to get them to figure it out. And the more and more we get people interested in doing it, the better it is for the industry.

Awesome. Kevin, just so you know, I just saw you, man, at tmc. I'm saving your question and putting it into the. I don't know if you know him, but I'm saving.

Kidding me. We had cigars and ice.

Awesome. It's awesome. Well, I'm saving that question, Kevin, just so we can keep going a little bit. There's some other ones. Great one from Jill as well and Steve. But I want to make sure we get through just the main content. I'm going to run real quick. Another quick poll. Just a quick Wake up everybody. In turn. This is very simple. Do you have a point of sale that is integrated with a verifier? This is super basic. So this is just a real quick pulse check here for the audience here. I'm going to launch that poll. Femi or not everybody actually. Femi, you could answer, but none of us.

I Want to know. I want to see Oakley's face when this poll comes up. That's what I want to know. That's what I want to see.

Yeah. Feel free to take a stab. I'm going to give this like another 30 seconds to get some answers, but we could do, we could ask one of the. Answer one of the questions that's in the chat. In the meantime, Jill wants to know if she can add instructions to the online application. I think she's probably referring to Encino. You might want to reach out Jill to Oakley.

Jill's on our team at Revolution. Jill, I will catch up with you after this.

Cool. We still got a couple more coming in. Answers coming in. So I'm going to ask one more of the questions in the audience in the, in the. Steve Austin. If they have changed employers in the last two years. Femi's nodding his head already. They have to.

Yes, they've got to log in for, for the piece that's out there. Oh, okay. So the, the cool piece for, for Stone Cold out there is very simply. Yes. If you have multiple sources or if you change payroll providers that could be in there. There's something that I want to make sure that's clear. You're not going to hit the bullseye 100% of the time. Right. If you can get to 60% of the files that have the consumer permission coming back with data, you've done a tremendous job. And then we'll convert like probably 40 to 50% of those. 40 to 54% according to our, according to our data of those will actually pick up D1C. But the important part is understanding if you don't have the data, you have no chance of it. Right?

Yeah.

So you're going from zero to something. And I'm not saying it's like the, you know, point zero, dumb and dumber. You're saying there's a chance percentage, but if you do it on paper, that's the percentage you got. Oh, this is a cool place. I want to see Oakley's response on this. The POS integrated with.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, what do you make of those results, Oakley?

Yeah, I think that aligns pretty closely to what I'm seeing on my end. I can go through and look at all of our companies that we are working with right now, all of our customers see who has event verification integration and this checks out just about. So I think as more and more low cost providers are coming out for verification, specifically voie. I'm hoping that that number of people that are Integrating with verifiers in the loan app is going to go up. But Yeah, I think 8079 is a really good start.

Just so everybody understands, I mean Encino has a lot of customers. Right. So if this matches the customer base and there's a lot of improvement to be done in the industry as far as I'm concerned, you know, and, and just, I mean let's. I'm going to stop sharing for a second. If anybody answered in that camp, in the no camp, like they don't have a POS that is integrated with a verifier, would you mind just throwing into the chat really quick why not or why you think that is? Unless you're not with. You don't have to. If you're not. If you're not with a lender, you don't have to answer that. But if you are with a lender, I would like to know kind of why not. Cool. Let's jump to the next question. I'm keeping this.

And before, I just want to, before we really move on, I did hear, I see Christine's question. I want to answer it because I feel like maybe what I said wasn't clear. So the question is, did I hear that we don't need to re. Verify employment in QC if we have day one certainty in qc. Post closing reverification is not required. Yes. I just wanted to make sure that we're not talking about prior to close the 10 day reverification just to make sure that is still required. There are automated ways to do that but the post close qc that is.

Not required and it's separate aspect for like funding QC. When you know, everybody and their grandmother knows when my loan is clear to close. Oh no, QC got it right. Everybody's had that. Most, most companies will set up their internal structure that says if you have reps and warrants, QC is just move on because there's nothing for them to check because the data has been validated by the agency and the ending already.

Yeah.

Now one thing to note just to make sure we're all clear, there is a close by date. So you need to make sure employment. So just you, you have employment validation, make sure you closed by that close by date, then you're good to go.

But yeah, I mean I gotta say.

That just to make sure I don't want anyone to get caught.

You know, it's super interesting that when we wrote these polls and all of us kind of had assumptions on how the answers would come in and I just, just it's. I Thought it'd be like closer to 99% or 100, saying they had a verifier in the. In the POS. But wow. All right, let's keep going. What are some examples of how. And this one, I think I'm gonna. I don't know. I'll open this up to the panel. What are some examples of how gaining day one certainty on a loan application affects the entire life cycle of the loan? Whoever wants to take a stab at this can jump in. Femi, I know you could talk for days on it, but Google, I try.

To leave the floor for anybody else. If not, I'm gonna fill it out.

I think you can go ahead. I feel like we've covered a lot of. I've covered most of what I would.

Let's. Yeah, yeah. So upfront it's understanding we're getting it in from the chat. Cost, timing, efficiencies, that's where we're at. So from my chair, it's the efficiency, it's how much more can we get through? How can we be prepared to handle our refis when they come in? How can we do this and be able to really have a force multiplier within our team that says I can get one underwriter to get through eight files in a day and if I can utilize the data instead of that dead shark process? I want to. I really, really, really, really, really want to. So up front, we've, we've covered like where it is from the consumer, but we can remind them it's your time. You can either go get me this list of 18 documents that encompasses the last two years and then explain to me what's going on, or you can try and remember your passwords for five minutes. Right. Like, let's, let's get this. So understanding up front where we collect the data, we get the chance at it. Once we get the chance at it, we get speed through manufacturing. You get rep and warrants so you don't have to deal with this qcs and the repurchase setups. You get advantages in less documentation in the file that's going to help you ship your file faster. And when you do all of that stuff at scale for your companies, you're going to end up with better pricing because you're going to have less operational cost to manufacture loans. And that's really what it's all about. Like, if somebody came up and said, femi, how could you fix everything? For any lender in the world, I'd say I'd reduce the cost of their Manufacturing and doing this speeds that up. When you speed up time and you reduce the cost, it's better for your organization. LOS will see it better in pricing. Underwriters will see it better in their workflow. QC people will see it better in their quality. And it's just the efficiency, start to finish.

I don't have a shark tooth necklace, but I will say this, Femi, what you just said, it's going to get you better pricing speaks to every single person on this, on this webinar for sure. That's awesome. And that's really, at the end of the day why I think anybody at a lender should be doing this and focused on it. All right, I think this next question is going to a little, is honestly a little bit catered towards true. But I mean, it's a question for the panel. You know, what is the borrower experience? Are borrowers supportive of this model? And I don't, I don't know if when we wrote this, we were thinking more on the true experience on a credentialed platform or whether we're talking about D1C. So I'm actually going to let you guys, Femi and Brooke speak to this first in terms of D1C day one certainty. And then I'll, and then I'll, I'll take a plug on true, if that's, if that's what's necessary.

Yeah, I think initially when we thought about this, we, we've talked about it actually throughout all of these answers to these questions. But the question was really around are borrowers willing to opt into this model or take advantage of it? So I think we've been kind of answering it. I do have one little statistic because we ran a survey on recent home buyers last year around their willingness to participate and their interest in a digital mortgage process. And 90% of the borrowers we serve surveyed or, or recent home buyers we surveyed wanted a fully digital or more digital mortgage process. So this just kind of speaks to the interest in the market. We did find that only like 30% were offered the ability to link their asset accounts as part of their mortgage process. So I think there are a lot of opportunities. So borrowers are willing and interested. It's really about, let's normalize this process and make sure that they have the opportunity to take advantage of it. That's just my little plug on that.

Well, my two cents on this is for lenders that are out here that say, where's my value add? I'm in an advisory role. They're looking to you for this setup. Borrowers don't come up and say, I have these documents. Go get me a mortgage. Borrowers say, what do I need to do? So really, the change has to come from within. It has to come from us. That says, utilize the tools, utilize this. Let's swing at these things and go, you're not going to get a home run every time, but you hit 400, you're going into the hall of fame. Every single person out here will be able to improve their setup. Brooke, that was outstanding. 90% wanted a more digital or digital experience that tells you that the people are willing to follow your lead. If you're in an advisory capacity, say, let's try this route, let's go down this, let's eliminate these documents, let's save your time. Let's not ask you for the same thing three times over. Let's work through this experience and work through the experience on something you're comfortable with. Work through it on Encino, Work through it on the direct send, follow the FAQ videos and the, and the how TOS of exactly what to do. You guys will realize that by the time you do this three or four times, it's going to be like explaining to your grandpa how to use Venmo. Like, it's, that's really what it is. It's not that difficult. We're not reinventing the wheels over here. You guys have done a great job with the borrower interface and the user experience. It's some best in class technology. I see lots of technology and lots of tech shows and people are like, oh, we can integrate with these guys. We can integrate with these guys because it really is best in class service.

Yeah, I would, I would just add that, Don, you're 100 right with your comment. Clearly communicating up front the benefits and why they're doing this is super important to get people bought in to do it. I mean, it's just, you know, like you're talking about when we were talking about earlier, that is your most sensitive information that you're, you're giving. And there's a, you have to show people why they're doing it. And you know what, when you do an application for a mortgage, it's anxiety inducing. You're waiting for that. Especially if it's the first time you've ever done it. You're like, is this, is this, is my, is my mortgage going to go through? Am I going to be able to buy this house? Like a million things are going through your mind that could go wrong and you Just want to get. You're. I think a lot of borrowers don't even know that they're going to get a note from the lender that says you're clear to close. But when you finally do, boy, that feeling is great, right? You're like, oh, I'm clear. Finally I'm clear to close. I've been, you know, like, it's more than approval. It's like all of that anxiety just disappears. And what we see is that when someone verifies with truv, closings tend to be the time for between application and closing tends to shorten by a few days. You have a borrower with higher intent compared to the other borrowers that are in their portfolio. They're in their funnels. So there's a real reason for the borrower to be doing this in terms of just less anxiety. You have at least more certainty that. I should use that word more certainty that this loan is going to close and close a little bit faster. Go ahead.

Threw a great one in there. I'm reading the chat and it says the originator needs to create the trust up front to solidify the acceptance of the digital experience. A live human needs to initiate the process and communicate the expectations appropriately. I couldn't agree more than you with that. These people are looking at you guys on the front line as the advisor. You're helping them. You've got to help curate that experience and set the expectations.

Yep, couldn't say it better myself.

Hey, Richard, if you don't mind me hopping in here too, I'd like to speak a little bit to the borrower experience and what we're working on at Encino as well. So right now we do have the ability for somebody to fill out verifications in the loan application if they opt not to do it in the loan application. Loan officers can order verifications under the services tab from the loan officer Dashboard. Right now that's sending out as an email to the borrower. But what we're doing to make the borrower experience better is we're working on a project right now to bring that in as a task. So verifications is a task. So if somebody opts not to fill that out in the loan application, a loan officer could thereafter order it as a task. It would show up in the borrower portal and they can go through the verification that way. And we're hoping that that will just improve even better the borrower experience and also help with conversions of getting more D1C certified data into the LOS. So we're excited for that to start rolling out here soon and hopefully that will, I don't know, kind of take us to the next level there as well.

All about it.

Yep, 100%. All right, we're going to wake up the audience again. We might have a couple people might have fallen asleep, although I think people are still pretty engaged. So this is to the audience here, have you flipped a refer to an approve eligible using a verification of assets to enhance the credit assessment? It's quite a, quite a mouthful. But if you know, you know. Right, right.

That's what I was thinking. If you know, you know you have alluded to this throughout the entire webinar. I love it.

And you can type in actually, you know what everybody if you don't know and it's okay to say I don't know what that means, say, say I don't know. And I'm going to have FEMI talk to it because this is an operator's language right here at a lending company. This is how they, they speak. So I'm going to give this a couple minutes. Oh, many times I love it. Don.

That's more money in your pocket. Don, we've loved it. How many times somebody said can I save this deal from the last person? Can I get this new referral partner because I can do something the next person can't. And it's just because they haven't embraced the technology and they haven't learned the tools on how they can use the technology to help get them more deal. That's so awesome.

Well guess what, I'm going to share the results here. I'm going to end poll in 3, 2, 1 end poll share results And I think you'll see here there's a lot of opportunity to improve here. Femi, jaws on the floor, Jaws on the floor.

So right here understand with your teams who you guys have for verification of asset capability and how I was mentioning earlier that we may just get a document that makes it easier for my underwriter to hit but you could actually pick up some more loans on that because of how it reads the the real log that's attached to that verification of asset that has the 12 month history with their rent payments and then that gets factored into the black box that is the AUS approval.

Right.

They can't come out and say it's X percentage more likely to be approved but what they can tell you is we will be able to read that history and be able to save more loans. So very simpler if you have a borrower with a thinner Credit file or you've got a high DTI or you've got some, you've got some gift funds, you've got some other risk factors. Something like somebody's verification of rent history for the 12 or 24 months is tremendous in being able to flip that, that information going back and forth. I know true is working with Fannie Mae right now on getting that, on getting that, that particular process set up so that you guys are an approved vendor. I know we're in the process of helping give you guys examples of those to be able to provide that data so that we can say, hey, let's have our preferred provider that has best in class service be able to offer every piece that's out there.

Well, I think you answered this next question pretty much right there and then that's.

There we go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. It's a quite a mouthful question too. I'm not even going to say it, but we're talking about the verification of assets report. You going to say something Brooke, to that? Do you just did.

FEMI mostly covered it really fundamentally that's about obtaining the verification of asset report, observing what's in the asset report, specifically rent payments or observing the cash flow for borrowers who either have no credit score or limited credit trade lines to enhance the credit assessment. And that's where you're flipping the switch from. Refer to an approve. So that's kind of what FEMI is talking about. When you get that asset report, you get multiple value because I will tell you, you can also get verification of assets using that asset report and if you sign up for it, you can get verification of income and employment using that asset report. So there's a lot of value in that report. So I'll just throw that out.

Yeah, I love it. So look we have. I'm just real quick, you know we're going to end the webinar here with this last question. How do you get started? Right? Open question to the panel. How do you get started?

40 seconds or less contact providers set up with the day one certainty approved providers that you can get from the Fannie Mae website and then get engagement from your field and start using these services. These things can be turned on and you guys can be uproaring and ready to go in a matter of days.

You have anything to add to that? I mean I can say from our perspective, Oakley, Brooke.

Well if you're trying to use an asset report, I mean I think you guys know all the details about how to order a report. But if you're trying to use an asset report. If you want to use it for income and employment validation, we offer that you do need to sign up through Fannie Mae. You can check out our website. It has some details on that. Yeah.

Yep. Go ahead Oakley.

Yeah, I think from the Encino side we're trying to make it as easy as possible. So you come to us, tell us which vendor you want to use, we can set up your integration in less than five minutes and you're ready to roll.

There you go. And truth our implementation integration. We move as fast as you can, fast as you can, meet as you can move. I can't talk anymore at the end of this webinar. All right, let's go through some quick questions that were left over guys and then we're going to wrap up. Jill had a good question. Can you lose the approval but change numbers back or remove the appraisal in femi's example that he gave earlier on? You know what I mean?

Right. So for specifically for the verification of that or for, for the value acceptance. Va VA in the wrong spot for the value acceptance, you've got to utilize the pdr. If you, if you actually register an appraisal, it's going to wipe the pdr. So you can't go backwards, you can't have an appraisal and then go use the, the waiver. But understanding that the income and assets, it's not like a one shot and done. You have the ability to pass the information. If the AUS will pick up and give you the information, it will give it to you there. Just accept what it gives to you. That's the, that's the part that we've got to learn to say, you know, if it works with this, leave it alone.

And I think, I think Mark's question of simple tricks and tactics to avoid not receiving day one certainty for employment like he's. That's what he was asking for. Some simple ones like an example. Go ahead.

Yeah. For the employer name one of the biggest reasons we don't get employment validation when we do get an income report or a verification of income report is because the employer name doesn't match. And, but we return in our, in your DU findings. Don't forget to look at the DU findings. That's a. I know it sounds like a no brainer, but I don't know, do you. I think there's a, just a mindset that we're going to fly through this but we do try to share information in the DU findings and especially around employer Name not matching. We will put the names that we observe in the verification of income and employment report in the DU message. So you can take a look. And if those look like the same name but maybe there's just, you know, one's a kind of an acronym or something like that, then you can update that in the loan application and resubmit. So, so don't forget to take a look at the DU messages. And I will add on the positive rent payment history even we issue a message that if we know that if you got an ass income and ask or sorry, an asset report and we saw that regular rent payment in that, so that you know the borrower is paying rent for from that bank account, we're offering that flip the switch. We've already kind of determined that. So if you see that message in the DU findings. So again, look at your DU findings.

But yeah, awesome. I'm going to run through Kimberly and by the way panelists, thank you so much for staying over over to make sure we get through these. Kimberly had some really good great questions. One of them was at the end of the call, femi, how long did it take to understand, learn and adapt that documents are no longer key for the loan, but data is.

This is going to be a journey. It took me until I was 45 years old to learn to learn that really we were doing this process because it's the data that we care about. And once you learn and understand that it's the data that you care about, that it's a how do you adapt that with your whole life? And for all those folks that have to work with me, you're going to hear me say that for probably the next 10 years until we've dragged the whole industry out of the 1970s where we're collecting paper documents and we're into a position where we're collecting consumer permission data, pushing it to the GSEs as quickly as possible and manufacturing the best asset that we possibly can because our data is like stone cold.

Yep. And I'll answer another one from Kimberly. Consumer permission data just means that the consumer is giving explicit permission for you to access their data or for another service to access their data.

Getting it from the source. Getting it from the source. Right from the HRAS system, right from the bank account system, right from there.

Not from a document as opposed to an instant database that's doing it behind the scenes and the borrower has no idea it's even being done. Okay, two more questions. In reading a DU findings, I noticed I have a day one for assets and it validates employment, but I don't see income validated it. Why is that? That's super technical and probably needs.

It is a little bit. So I'm. What I'm hearing is income was validated but employment was not validated using an asset verification report. Is that what I. I actually can't see that.

I think flip flop there. I think income was not employment was.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right. I have a day one for assets and it validates employment, but I don't see income validation.

Well, when we say day one for assets, are we talking about the asset report? So if you're talking basically income and employment typically go along together with the asset report. So I would want to look at that case file, to be honest. But for a verification of income report, we do validate or verify the employment first. So you need to have employment validated in order to get income validated. So it's possible we couldn't calculate enough income or we didn't see the regular income stream, but we could see that the employment was validated. But with that asset report, I believe it's really both kind of coming together. So, yeah, if you want to reach out to me about that, I can kind of put my. In my contact information. If there's something specific, I would be happy to. To take a look at it.

So give her the case id. She'll be able to look it up.

Yeah.

Give you the case file id you'll be able to.

Yes, exactly.

Well, everybody, feel free to reach out to everybody who's on this call. You can reach out to me. I'm going to share the recording afterwards. So everybody's going to get my contact information. If you want me to connect you with any of the panelists, just say so and I'll make that connection. Everybody here's a giver, everybody. I just. We're way over time, but I, I think this is a huge success. Thank you so much. So everybody who's in the audience understands we're going to do mult multiple of these in a series. I think this was a great first episode. So, Femi, thank you so much. Oakley, thank you so much. And Brooke, thank you so much.

Thank you guys for having me here. Appreciate it.

Thank you everybody. Yep. And all the participants in the audience. Bye, everybody.