Kirsten Green of Forerunner Ventures w/ Lisa & Paul Jauregui of BK Beauty | Operators Series: Ep 14

Point, though. So.

Hello, everybody. We are live for episode 14. I appreciate everybody for joining us again. We have a very special guest, which I will get to in a minute. I know we had some Internet issues last week. We've done some. Some testing this week. We seem good. Of course, it was episode 13 that was giving us some issues. Before we. Before I jump in and introduce our guests, you all know the drill. Where are you calling in from? As usual, I am here in Southern California. Kirsten, where are you calling in from today?

I'm calling in from Seattle. I just came up here yesterday to visit some family.

Perfect. A nice. A nice long drive and then a car drive.

That's what you do in corona times 15 hours with two kids and two dogs.

Awesome.

The dogs, nice.

Why not? Might as well bring the whole, add.

It to the mix.

And Nick, you've been all over. Where are you dialing in from today? I'm in Cape Cod for today, actually.

On Cape Cod.

I can't believe I just mispronounced that. Casey, you like to correct me there. So let's see, we've got Chicago, North Carolina, Tennessee, some more. Illinois, of course, our international folks with London, Canada, New York. Another person from Orange County, Toronto, Columbia. There we go. John, where in Colombia are you calling from? I've been fortunate to go there. Argentina. Playa Vista.

Where?

Portland. Some Canadians. Perfect. Awesome. So this is an episode I've had circled for a while. I'm very excited. This will probably be the longest intro that I've given for a guest and rightfully so. Before we get there, as usual, we will be doing a giveaway again this week. We'll be mixing up a little bit, so this is a bit more subjective. So maybe this will give you all, I don't know, flashbacks to, like, SAT2s or something like that. But whoever asked the most thoughtful or interesting question for Kirsten will win the giveaway. And so we'll give away some BK beauty products. Who is going to be joining us in about 30 minutes for the pitch? And then we'll also give away some products from one of Kirsten's portfolio brands like Glossier or Outdoor Voices. So she can either pick one or maybe the winner can choose. Oh, amazing. And so we have, again, like I mentioned, we have Kirsten Green. She's the founding partner of Forerunner Ventures, and so buckle up for all of this. So she currently sits on the board for brands like Glossier, Outdoor Voices, Ritual, Indigo Fair, and she has served on the board for both Dollar Shave Club and Bonobos. If you are, I'm assuming everybody here is familiar with them, but Dollar Shave Club was acquired by Unilever for about a billion dollars in 2016, and Bonobos was acquired for Walmart for 310 million. And then her company's also invested in Warby Parker Away Ham's Hotel Night more. And so one of the things that really stands out to me also is just, it's, it's really the brands that really made, I think, direct to consumer a thing and have really revolutionized how I think most of us approach the industry and has allowed companies like Shipbob to also grow and thrive during these times. And so a little bit more for me to embarrass her a little bit and then we'll jump in the questions. And so on top of that, Kirsten was on times, 100 most influential people, which is rather amazing. And then Forbes 2020-2019-2018-2017, Midas list, which is the top 100 VCs in the entire world across all industries. So on that, Kirsten, welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Wow, thank you, Casey. Thanks for the really nice introduction and thanks so much for asking me to come and chat with you today. I'm honored to be here and joining.

Us on your road trip. So to start, because I've got a lot of questions, the audience sent a bunch of questions in advance. I know we'll get a lot of, you know, while we're, while we're going on this in real time. But just if you could just share with the audience, you know, what was the catalyst for you to found and create Forerunner Ventures?

Oh my goodness, that's a big question. So Forerunners launched really in earnest. I guess it started with an angel fund that I had in 2010, and really I'd been an investor for my career. So prior to that, for about 10, 15 years, I'd been investing in the public market and largely focused on consumer companies and really saw a whole cycle play out in the kind of late 90s. It was about the growth of the mall, the rise of the specialty retail, kind of, you know, a lot more consumer centric brands. And there were many tailwinds that were driving opportunity then. And it kind of, you know, lasted for a period of 10 years in growth. Sort of fast forward to the early or mid 2000s. The economy was in a different situation and people started to question, you know, how technology was going to impact, you know, all areas of business. But retail in particular, thinking about the balance between digital and stores. And so the companies that were in the Public market were having to rethink their strategies and retrench. It was a really different kind of investment mandate and it was more about kind of cost structure, financial engineering, repositioning, business models. And I thought one cycle had played out, I'd like to be part of another. And so I kind of went on my own led journey to think about where was the market going, what might the next wave of businesses look like? And I had a lot of learning to do because I had only been investing in later stage businesses. And I did a little bit of everything from kind of working side by side with entrepreneurs, thinking through their financial plans, thinking through their business models, their pitches, to working with private equity firms on diligencing and kind of doing category work and thesis. And through all of that, I really started to develop my own view on where was, where was the next set of opportunities, what would those companies need to have to potentially be successful. And also what did it mean to partner with an entrepreneur and how could I do that in a way that I felt proud of and that I felt like I was adding something. And I think the confluence of all of that and the opportunity that I felt higher conviction of sort of also put me, you know, in a place where it's like, I don't know what other firms are doing this. Maybe I have to start it on my own. And so it was not necessarily the goal in the beginning, but became the driver for launching 4Runner. And as I mentioned, I had an angel fund at first and it was really a proof of concept fund. And as much as anything to myself, like, did the world need another venture capital firm, could be differentiated in a way that could be an advantage for the firm, or should I go work somewhere else? And I think through that time period built conviction and in 2012, launched our first institutional fund. So we've just wrapped up Fund five fundraise.

Congrats on that. So I know a lot of the people in this audience and I've thought this myself, I know Nick has as well, is do we need another insert brand or insert company? Just like you said, does the world need another VC firm or another angel fund? So, you know, how did you overcome that, you know, internal resistance and then decide to ultimately pull the trigger?

Yeah, I'll share that answer as it relates to how I thought about venture capital and then maybe tie it to brands since that's probably what everyone else is more interested in hearing about on this call. But I think it was a combination of having a view on where the market was going, what was it going to take to be successful in the next leg of the journey? Venture capital started as an industry 30 years prior, in the late 80s or 80s timeframe. Get to the 2010 period where I was really looking at the market and there were a lot of venture capital firms, there's a lot of startups, a lot of activity. And I think business and trends and change was happening faster than others. So one of the thoughts I had was that having a real focus or having a unique perspective or some unique expertise to bring to the table would be increasingly important in a world where it was as dynamic as it was. Is there a unique approach with that eye towards how the industry is moving that might actually create an advantage for a business? And I think that's a lot about how we think about the consumer brands that we've invested in over the last decade, which is, where's the consumer? What's going on with them? What's going on with their lives? What's shaping their decisions and their preferences and priorities, and what areas of business are meeting those, and what areas of businesses are not meeting those, and what areas are whole new opportunities. And then kind of overlaying that against the business landscape and saying, who are the incumbent companies and how nimble are they? How much are they leaning into the Future and Change vs Not? And is there an opportunity to. At the risk of using a word that I now don't like anymore because it's overused but disrupt, is there a chance to introduce a new and a better and more modern way of doing things? And that is a hallmark of what at least we're looking for in venture as a key element of the businesses that we're investing in.

So with your angel fund and then maybe with 4Runner, do you remember the first check that you wrote for each and why you decided to pull the trigger on them?

Yes.

Well, why don't I start with the first fund investment in the institutional fund? Because I think at that point I had, like, more of a prepared mind and an idea around what I was hoping to do. That check. The first investment we made in that fund was in Dollar Shave Club. And I actually made the investment while I was still in the fundraising process. I was so compelled by what Michael Dubin, the founder, was laying out to me as his vision, that even though I hadn't fully raised the fund, I was like, I need to be part of this. So I sort of threaded a few needles to make that happen. But really, what stood out, I think it's a great case study to Kind of give a tangible example to what I was just referring to was this idea that the consumer, in particular the consumer for dollar Shave Club, the male consumer was really going through a lot of change. They were waking up to the Internet was providing a lot more information, a lot more perspective. And this consumer was waking up to taking care of themselves in a different way. Just like I think there's been more conversation in the last decade about men's personal care and men's beauty than there have been in all the decades before. And so this new customer was kind of hearing about it, having more inputs, learning about it, starting kind of explore with product. And not a lot of product was there to meet their needs. Uniquely, I think guys found themselves kind of peeking in their partner's medicine cabinet and maybe trying a few of those products because when they went to the store, they went to a drugstore, which they probably were making a special trip to do. They were confronted with a huge complicated aisle of lots of brands, most of which were born 30, 40 years ago and hadn't necessarily evolved their core messages and their product offerings. And so trying to make a connection to those products was a challenge. And so Michael saw an opportunity to both address a different shopping experience and introduce products in a new way that would resonate with that consumer. And then really importantly, notice that the patterns of people's behavior had changed in such a way that traffic at stores was going down. More and more shopping was happening online. And if you think about the big CPG companies and on a global basis, they are in that kind of. They have been, at least at this time in 2012, had been in that old school model of most of the sales had gone through a third party retailer. So they were a step away from their consumer. While the retailers and other businesses were increasingly getting front row seat at what was going on with the consumer and having that information to be more nimble with their business decisions. And it really was a challenge that was holding that industry back. And I think Michael's thought was we can go direct to the consumer, we can start being in that interchange with the consumer and using that as a way to inform what product should we be launching with, how should we be launching it, what are the considerations around price or bundling? And so really to kind of bring the business model into the modern age and to have those advantages of data and insights into every decision that they were making around spending resources.

I love that. I mean you were seeing kind of the shifting zeitgeist and how men were buying. I mean, I can speak to it firsthand and relate to it as well. And also changing the business model and how they were getting to the end consumer. And then they really nailed their go to market strategy as well. I mean, they had their commercials blowing up all over the place.

Well, people used to say, like, oh, you know, like, you saw that video, you invested. I actually hadn't seen the video when I invested. And I think the video was obviously, like, it was almost like a cultural moment. It wasn't what contributed value to the business ultimately. I think it was kind of, you know, so against this backdrop of recognizing, like, what's going on with the consumer, how can you meet a need that is, you know, otherwise not being met in the market? And then how do you think about how the industry is changing and have a business model that sort of fits the future? Right. If you can combine those two, like, the potential for having some exponential value is high. But in the middle of all of that is you're doing something new. And so I think by definition, you're doing something new there. And so hopefully you can make the most of an inefficient market that exists and an inefficient market because not as many people are doing it. So in 2012, Facebook wasn't the mature platform that it is today in terms of just how people buy and sold, traded ad spots. And so being able to kind of have something novel that got people's attention in an inefficient marketplace was a real acquisition advantage. It wasn't something that they're still taking advantage of today necessarily, but it was important. And one of the things that's. It's always important and relevant for a brand, but it's extraordinarily important in the early days is how do you rise above the noise? How do you get people's attention out of the gate? One of the biggest challenges today is there's product proliferation, there's product prolification, and there's information proliferation. And people have so many things coming at them at so many points in the day. What does it take to break above the noise? I think in some ways that was an opportunity that existed uniquely at that period in time. And Michael's ability to connect with the user in a way where it became a shareable piece of content and something people were chatting about was. Was timely and unique and an advantage in a moment for the company.

I love that. I'd love to say on rising above the noise. And so here's a question that maybe we can view it from both sides of this conversation where how did you, with a newer fund, rise above the noise and attract the likes of Dollar Shave Club and some of the other investments that you were able to participate in? And then on the other side, how are, you know, what are some of the more creative or innovative or successful ways that you've seen brands that don't necessarily have direct connections with you or with other prominent VCs able to rise above the noise and actually start that conversation with you?

Yeah, it's a good question. So I'll answer them separately because I would say for like myself and Forerunner, you know, one of the things that people used to say is like, you know, timing is so important. And as a younger person in my life, I did not want to believe that. I wanted to believe that hard work was what made the difference. But the truth of the matter is, of course, is the longer you live, the more you kind of realize that most of the cliches that are around are true. I mean, you do need a little bit of luck and you do need timing. So I think we got, we got, we got both of those and we were able to make the most of it because we had been intentional about how we'd spent our time. So, you know, one, I only started 4Runner because one of the big reasons of starting 4Runner was because I felt like we had something unique to offer the market to me. Understanding business, understanding market dynamics, understanding business models, getting familiar with kind of the metrics that it takes to prove out the business models and having an eye towards, you know, a good business ultimately and a good investment outcome is kind of table stakes. Like I don't. You need to be doing that, you know, whatever other perspective you're coming with as an investor, the idea of really paying close attention to what's going on with the consumer, staying close to the zeitgeist of the consumer, thinking about kind of what are the emerging trends of today that have a potential to be exponential tomorrow. And being sensitive to the timing of both the product or the service you're introducing and the business model innovation is what kind of creates that luck or that moment. We had some unique point of view in the market and because of that, I think some of the early business and because we most importantly partnered with great founders who executed flawlessly. I mean, it's rarely about the investor when companies are successful. So, you know, had some great early picks and sort of said early on in people and said, you know, I'm a startup, I've got to think about how to create leverage off of everything I do. And so one of the first things was, was partner with people and do it in earnest and don't over promise, but over deliver and do what you say you're going to do and show up and be good and good entrepreneurs will know good entrepreneurs. So we really kind of created a little bit of an ecosystem dynamic through that and then had a breakout event. Dollar Shave Club was a breakout event. It was four years into our business and now everybody likes to count unicorns. But that was before the unicorn era and it was an exciting moment certainly for all of us that were involved in the company. And I think it built some validation for like the approach that we were taking to venture and then just a passion and love for the business and desire to keep doing it and keep doing it in a forward leaning way has sort of underpinned some ongoing success or opportunities that we've created for ourselves. And I think a lot of that is true for companies too. You know, it's like you do need, you do need to, you need to put yourself in the right place. I think having a thoughtful approach to that and understanding kind of like where are the things that you can lean into that can be different, that can create advantages and being really being close to the user and putting all those things together, then if you're right about directionally where things are going and you're early, maybe you get the timing thing right and you get a little bit of luck in that too. And I think you kind of need all of it to go your way.

Speaking of that, with needing a lot of it to go your way from like a traction standpoint, how have you seen things or from the traction that a brand has seen, how have you seen things evolve from maybe when you invested in Dollar Shave Club to now the types of pitches that you're seeing and what that looks like?

Yeah. So one of the things I like the most about investing in early stage companies and doing this dance that I'm talking about, which is thinking about where's the world going? What does the world look like five years out? One of the elements of a good venture capital type investment is you're doing something that's kind of breakout. You're doing something that is more than incremental in the market and that provides a halo for what you're doing. And in order to achieve that, you do need to be early on the trend. And so because of that you have to always be reinventing what you're looking for. We use experiences that we've had to hopefully be, you know, provide experience around the table and perspective that can be helpful. But like, I never try to run the same playbook twice. It doesn't work. So what, you know, what pitch resonated in 2020 and what pitch resonated in 2014 and 2016 is very different than the pitch that's resonating today. I think, you know, early on in the 2010 decade, there was a lot of room to run on kind of direct to consumer. It was still very new. And if you could understand, understand how you, as a business, we're going to outshine the business models in the category and reap some of those advantages and have a halo for yourself because of a more efficient business that lined up with what we were looking for today. We need to find new ways of doing that on the business model front. And we have to keep pushing in different ways. And some of that is again, about the business model. Some of it is also like what's going on with people. One of the things that we've said is I think about, I like to think about timelines. I think the last decade in so many ways was about, you know, the first time most everybody had a phone in their pocket and was digitally enabled and wanted to have convenience and wanted to have choice and wanted to discover new things. And a lot of effort was put into addressing those desires in the kind of lowest hanging fruit places. So which turned out to be a lot of discretionary things, a lot of discretionary products, a lot of discretionary activities, gaming, et cetera. Because those industries, in some ways, I certainly want to say, they're easier to track, but they're not as encumbered by bureaucracy or government or other elements. And so, you know, I think we think about it kind of on the desire or the want or the discretionary side. That was really, you know, so much innovation happened on that side. And through that, the consumer got spoiled. I mean, it has been great to be a consumer. It's been a deflationary environment. Better products, better design, better value. Meanwhile, there's this whole other side of experiences that are fundamental to our lives as people and humans, which we think of kind of loosely or broadly on the need side of the ledger. That would be healthcare, it would be kind of wellness, it would be education, it would even be financial freedom. A lot of business and consumer things, I think are getting closer together where there's a trend towards a more dynamic career path, a lot more change in your career. Even this idea of solopreneurship. Those things haven't they haven't been tackled in the same way that the want side of the ledger has, if you will. And now there's this big discretion, there's this big discrepancy. And in some ways that just begs for people to work over here. So we're spending time over there. It's not to say that there's not opportunity over here, because this keeps changing too, but it's just kind of maybe the scope of the opportunity.

I have a question on another company you guys invested in with Glossier. So they really nailed something that is getting a lot of talk right now with Linear Commerce. And I know when we bring on the BK Beauty team, they're going to share how they use the platform and their voice prior when they launched their brand. But what attracted you to Glossier? And have you seen other companies in your portfolio, I don't know, imitate or steal from some of their playbook that's worked so well or how or how that's possibly evolving?

It's really hard to steal from other people's playbooks. You know, one of the first questions we get is like, oh, you know, you've had, you've worked with a lot of companies that have been like, really savvy marketers, like, how do we do that? How do we build a brand? And I'm like, well, listen, here's the good news. And the bad news is that it's a new day. You got to make it up, and you got to make it up authentically to your own self. And I think that's driven by two things. One is that consumers are savvy. And that's kind of a first principle that we have, which is consumers are really. Consumers are savvy and they can feel and embrace. I hate this word, too, but there's not a better one just because it's overused authenticity. And at the same time, if somebody's faking it, they repel against it. And the only way you can be authentic is if you're following your own playbook and your own set of guiding principles. So I think, you know, there are lessons to be learned from what other companies are doing. But then there's the challenge of, like, how do you make it your own? How do you push it forward in a unique way that's about your product offering, about your brand values, about your company values or business model that you want to make your advantage and have that be, you know, really as important to anything but, you know, glossier? So all of these things are kind of like, you Know, even talking about Michael at Dollar Shave Club. And same is true for Glossier. Like it's a, it's a, there's, there's specifics about the pitch and the company and the founder and there's also a point in time and those things are lining up in a way. And so when I met Emily, you know, again, it was early on in sort of the advent of kind of direct to consumer, consumer really led businesses. And what I immediately was drawn to with her was she just had such an intimate knowledge and connection of her consumer. She had picked up a camera, picked up a notebook on her own and started into the gloss and been on a two plus year journey with that audience to really kind of understand what they were responding to, what they were clicking more on, what they were commenting more on, what they were saying in the comments, how they were feeling about things, what they were missing, what they were wanting. And so her early pitch on the business was all about being in the head of that user and the many opportunities that there were to meet needs that she heard time and time again that for whatever reason, the products that existed in the market and not that there were not a plethora of them, they were missing the mark with those consumers. And I think for her it was like, I want to keep growing with this consumer base and keep really building the business in tandem with what I'm learning about them. And that's foundational to how that company has set up. And that's, that was unique at the time and it was dynamic and it is still unique today in a lot of ways because they're always evolving as a company. But it's that how do you patch together? How do you be in this dance with the consumer where you're engaging with them on social platforms, you're engaging with them on your own site, you're engaging them through your emails, you're engaging them through the feedback that comes or maybe whatever focus groups you set up. And really then using that to inform decisions that you're making at the company. And as much as anything like the opportunity to go on that journey with a founder who cared deeply about that, that was the underpinning of the business I wanted to invest in. We just happened to be selling beauty products, but it was really about could you create a different foundational relationship with a consumer that had business advantages because you were more likely to have stronger product launches and stronger retention because of the way you'd approached it initially?

I love that. And as somebody who's not their target demographic, it is definitely a brand that I follow a lot. And I'm glad you mentioned the evolution because it's not just the. And I think about this a lot on the B2B side, it's product market fit is not a point in time. It's constantly evolving.

That's right.

So it's product market fit, it's team market fit, it's brand market fit. And their brand continues to evolve and how they've rolled out. I know with coronavirus, things have changed a bit, but like their physical retail stores and seeing, you know, these that will blow up on Instagram or social channels where it'll be raining outside and there'll be like lines down the street, it's mind blowing. And like, that shows you have a brand right there. And I have a bunch more questions. We actually have some great questions from the audience. But I think you sharing the glossier story and how she was really able to build up this platform prior to and really understand her customer so intimately really leads us into the BK Beauty team perfectly. So let's bring them on stage. Nick, I don't know if you push a button or if Lisa or Paul joins in.

The magic happens. Yeah.

Yep.

The magic is about to happen.

Let's see.

It looks like Paul and Lisa are getting ready right now.

Let's see if we can get them on stage.

Might just take a couple seconds.

And I'll introduce them while. Oh, here they go. So, hey, welcome. So I'll do a quick intro and then we can. We can jump in. I know Lisa and Paul, you have a lot to share and I'm sure Kirsten has some questions coming over. So Lisa Howdege and Paul HowDegee, founders of BK Beauty, also friends of mine located over in Austin, Texas. So I'm very happy to have them on Lisa's run a prominent YouTube channel, Lisa J. For several years now, which I'm sure she'll share. Over 150,000 subscribers, over 10 million views. And Paul recently joined from. He was a founding team and running marketing over a company called Praetorian, which is one of the leading cybersecurity firms. And now they're partnering up here to really put BK Beauty on the map. And I'm really excited to have them on. So this is where I get to really sit back and be part of the audience as well. So, Paul, Lisa, welcome and jump on in.

Thank you. Well, you introduced us. I want to thank Shipbob for hosting this series and inviting us on this week's episode. And Kirsten, I Want to thank you for your time. I can't tell you how excited and honored we are to be able to share our story with you today.

Oh, you're so nice.

Yeah, absolutely. So our story begins with my passion. I've had a passion for makeup since I was a little girl. And 15 years ago, I landed my dream job as a trainer for Mac Cosmetics. And it was amazing. My role, my responsibility was to travel and train hundreds of Mac artists on makeup artistry, makeup technique, new product launches, and most importantly, customer service. And I think that experience was just so valuable. I learned so much from that. Six years ago, my passion to teach makeup led me to start a YouTube channel, kind of just as a side hobby, and I would upload videos teaching women. My approach was always teaching women makeup in an easy and attainable way. I felt like a lot of the videos on YouTube, there were a ton of products used. The makeup was too much. I was in my 30s, and I was really trying to speak to that audience. I've since then created hundreds of videos that have been seen by, you know, millions of people around the world. And I have found this community, this, like, incredibly engaged and active community of makeup enthusiasts. Last year, we leveraged that platform to launch BK Beauty, Direct to consumer brand. That is, we say we're fueled by our passion for beauty, but our mission of kindness. We launched our brand with a set of makeup brushes that are not only functional, but equally as beautiful. It was really important for me as a previous makeup artist to have great brushes that did the job, but that looked beautiful sitting on your vanity. In addition to our products and makeup education, our brand is also known for celebrating beauty inside and out. With every purchase, a donation is made to inspire kindness. So everyone always asks, what does BK stand for? And BK started with my two daughters names, Brooklyn and Kate, but it actually means beauty is kindness. You know, as a mother, it's important that you know, beauty is kindness is our mission as a brand, and it's also my mission as a mother. When I think about the message that I want to teach my daughters about true beauty, you know, having two young daughters, quite honestly, I worry about the message that they're receiving from society about what beauty is. And my girls are young, but in, you know, a few years, they'll be navigating social media, and that brings a whole nother level of concern for me because it's something that I struggle with daily and what I do and really inspired me to, you know, start a conversation about inner beauty. You know, I'm in This beauty community. And I really wanted to inspire a conversation about true beauty and inner beauty. So with every purchase made, 10% of our profits go back to the Kindness Campaign, which is an amazing nonprofit organization that creates curriculum K through 12. And it teaches kids about kindness, the importance of kindness, empathy. It equips them with the social emotional awareness skills to equip them to grow up to be kind leaders. So it's been really incredible. We're about to approach our year anniversary on August 1st. It's been amazing, and it feels like we're just getting started.

Yeah, it's been amazing to see what Lisa's been able to do with her content on YouTube. And we believe in today's connected world, that content builds community. And it's that community that fuels commerce. And for BK Beauty, we've already established strong unit economics that are going to allow us to grow profitably over time. In less than a year, we've generated over $925,000 in sales. And that's just from makeup brushes alone. And we've been able to accomplish that without having to rely on paid social media as well. And so today, what we're focused on is building out a new line of colored cosmetics that will launch later this year and continue into next year as well. And as we do so, it's important to note that directing consumer really was just our launch and startup strategy. Next year, we intend to pursue strategic retail opportunities with partners like Nordstrom and Sephora. We know that retail, physical retail, is hurting right now, but I think our timing is going to be well put, focusing on that next year. And BK Beauty's high gross margin, low cost of customer acquisition, and our growing lifetime value of our customer really enables us to invest heavily on delighting every customer in every way and to finish it out. We believe that with the right mix of audience, authenticity, as you mentioned, Kirsten, and also a focused product release, we are prepared and working to build the next great beauty brand of the decade. And we're just getting started.

So that's our story. So we love to take questions and feedback and.

Yeah, well, I'll start by saying thank you for sharing the story.

Builds community. And it's that community that fuels commerce. And for BK Beauty, we've already established strong unit economics that are going to allow us to grow profitably over time. In less than a year, we've generated over $925,000 in sales, and that's just from makeup brushes alone. And we've been able to accomplish that without having to rely on paid social media as well. And so today what we're focused on is building out a new line of colored cosmetics that will launch later this year and continue into next year as well. And as we do so, it's important to note that direct to consumer really was just our launch and startup strategy. Next year we intend to pursue strategic retail opportunities with partners like Nordstrom and Sephora. We know that retail, physical retail is hurting right now, but I think our timing is going to be well put focusing on that next year. And BK Beauty's high gross margin, low cost of customer acquisition, and our growing lifetime value of our customer really enables us to invest heavily on delighting every customer in every way and to finish it out. We believe that with the right mix of audience authenticity, as you mentioned, Kirsten, and also a focused product release, we are prepared and working to build the next great beauty brand of the decade. And we're just getting started.

So that's our story. So we love to take questions and feedback and.

Yeah, well, I'll start by saying thank you for sharing the story. I love the authenticity of your story and your journey. And I think magic happens in business when you're able to find something that you combine a passion and purpose with. Also business ambitions. I've been a believer in that. That's been a guiding light for what I've done. It feels like everything just clicks a lot easier and more naturally when you're in that zone. So exciting for you to have found that in your career. I also want to thank you for the beautiful brushes. So I got treated to a set of the brushes and I would back up what you said in describing them as just their beautiful. They're clearly luxe and that was a very nice treat. Thank you. And I also had so much fun watching your videos in anticipation of getting to meet you today. And I did exactly what I think you want people to do, which is kind of go down the rabbit hole of like, well, wait, how do I do that? And then suddenly I was like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to think about business questions. I can stop doing this. Great job and an incredible library of content.

Thank you.

So maybe I'll just, I mean, since we're kind of free flowing a little bit, I'll share with you, like sort of, you know, if you come into my office and give me this pitch and talk about like your ambitions to build it. The couple of areas that I'd probably spend the first conversation digging around in is to kind of, you know, talk a little bit about the market you operate in. Talk about kind of how you're thinking about your business standing out in that market. And you know, it could be from a business model perspective, it could be from a product perspective. I think you've already made a nod to that, talking about the foundation around kindness, but how do you really want to make that, like, work for you in a way that's an advantage then to dig in a little bit to the business model, which I think is, you know, an area that you also gave a nod to. And talking about how you'd been engaged with your audience on the YouTube channel and thought about like, okay, where's the opportunity to kind of take this relationship I've built and add another layer of dynamic to it? But I think there's also a ton of opportunity in how you think about that as a business model driver for both your beauty brand you have today, but like, maybe even beyond that, you know, maybe you understand something or you discover something that's really process oriented in that that has some repeatability for other people that are looking to do that. You're in this unique spot where you've been doing this for six years. You have an incredible presence on YouTube. You have a real catalog of content and of engagement you've had with your audience that's informing what you're doing. Like, where in that is maybe something that you can kind of productize to help like the next generation of up and coming YouTubers and, you know, whether it's beauty or other things and like, is there a business model there? So, like, I would just want to play around with that without, you know, I think it's really important for an investor to never be making up the business plan that doesn't work. You know, I really just want to be on the journey with the entrepreneur that I backed to support what they're doing. And I'm all game for like, you know, helping layer in thoughts that maybe inspire other things. But it like, ultimately needs to be their business. But I want to play around with you a little bit in that area and then just think really tactically, like, what do the next 12 months look like? What are the next 24, 36 months look like? What are the things that you can accomplish over that period of time that prove parts of your hypothesis? So, you know, one of the things we always get asked and talk about is like, you know, what are the metrics that, you know, how much sales do we need to have to be ready for a series, whatever, financing? And I think it's really hard to like stick a stake in the ground on those goalposts. I think as much as anything, it's about like, where are you in the journey of proving out your business hypothesis and how are you going about doing that? How efficient is it? What resources resources do you need to do it and where might that end you? Kind of, what other door are you opening in doing that? So that was just a lot of. But I wanted to frame it up so in case that's helpful for everybody else. And I think from there, since we have like an edited amount of time, maybe you guys could pick the area that you want to dig in the most out of those couple few. And if we can get to all of them, great.

If not, yeah, definitely. And thanks for the insight there. Incredibly helpful to kind of get the insight into how you look at pitches, what you like to dig into. And for us, you know, I can start with the product. What I found, obviously Lisa has a deep background in cosmetics and makeup. From the product standpoint, she's the expert in the space right between the two of us, obviously. But what I found to be true in the cosmetics field is there's really low, low rates of innovation. It's driven by marketing and distribution, period. And what I also know is bringing a superior product to the market is just the table stakes of the game. Right. And for us, we're taking an audience first approach. And so that's really at the core of our brand and our business's DNA. And if you're looking at future trends, at least from my perspective and what I've been able to see with Lisa, what she's done over the years, the introduction of the brand, we have a really unique insight into the mindset of a YouTube creator or any content creator for that matter. Right. We understand her motivations and what drives her. And now we have a proven playbook for brand and product development. And so ultimately I think that, well, positions us to start looking for opportunities that are bigger than a single brand. Obviously we're continuing to, to build out the brand and grow it over time and we have kind of a track ahead that's pretty crystal clear. But it's very possible that it opens up to be a portfolio of brands, unique brands that share our same DNA, that are creator led or audience first driven and essentially us being in a position to liberate them and liberate their full market potential. I think the next wave of commerce, from my perspective, there's going to be a flood of new brands coming out of the passion economy, which is really Kind of at the center of what Lisa's been basically dove into the deep end six years ago. And what that path looks like is it's the passion. They start with the passion that generates the content that attracts other brands, and they figure out, hey, I can monetize this and create a business. And I got to see that, that journey with Lisa firsthand. And it happens across the board. And then ultimately they realize that they can start partnering with brands and doing a lot more. What I think a lot of them have not realized yet is the potential of starting their own brand in that category and bringing products to market. And what we've seen in terms and essentially us being in a position to liberate them and liberate their full market potential. I think the next wave of commerce, from my perspective, there's going to be a flood of new brands coming out of the passion economy, which is really kind of at the center of what Lisa's been basically in terms of not having to rely on paid social advertising, the process by which you source product development and all that and bring it to market. I think that's also table stakes. Again, it goes back to the marketing and distribution. And there's a lot.

I think it's an advantage that you guys have that like, you know, with this community, like the content relationship driven lead, the community driven lead, you can get to truth on those things in a much more efficient or precise way.

Yeah. And even going into developing our products or where we would fall in the spectrum of, of mass market versus prestige we were sitting on, we dove into the deep end six years ago. And what that path looks like is it's the passion. They start with the passion that generates the content that attracts other brands, and they figure out, hey, I can monetize this and create a business. And I got to see that journey with Lisa firsthand. And it happens across the board. A treasure trove of data from Lisa's affiliate sales information that a lot about her audience. And so that really drove our decisions around product development, pricing, communication.

Those are the kind of things I think that are super interesting. Right. They're the things that drive confidence in, like the new rollouts you'd be doing in your business and being able to kind of, you know, really make some informed, predictive outlook on what the potential is there and then for it to become a playbook. So with that in mind, like maybe just tangibly talk a little bit about how you decided to do brushes and then how you're approaching color as a next phase.

Sure. So I'LL take that one. So brushes. The decision to do brushes came from, you know, having a makeup artist background. One thing I've always said in so many of my videos is that you can be just.

And then ultimately they realize that they can start partnering with brands and doing.

A lot starting in makeup. And if you have the right brushes, it can do a lot of the work for you. And on the other side, or what.

I think a lot of them have not realized yet is the potential of starting their own brand in that category and bringing products to market. And what we've seen in terms of not having to rely on paid social advertising, the process by which that you.

Can be a professional makeup artist, have the wrong brushes, and be extremely frustrated because you don't have the right tools. So I truly feel like brushes are the kind of foundation of a makeup out of application. And, you know, I. When I started YouTube, I was in my early 30s, and so I was a little bit. A little bit older than a lot of the big channels on YouTube. And I found, like, this kind of disconnect or this. This market that was. That I wasn't really finding on YouTube. And that was women that were new moms that maybe didn't have, you know, in my 20s, before kids, I had all the time in the world, you know, sit down the vanity for 45 minutes into my makeup.

All the time in the world, or just the perfect skin, and you could.

Just get up and go, you source, you know, product development and all that, and bring it to market.

Well, what's funny is I did have better skin then, but I felt the need to pile on more.

I think that's also table stakes again. It goes back to the marketing and distribution, and there's a lot.

I think it's an advantage that you guys have that, like, you know, with this community, that is how you work as you get older, it's like less makeup. Although kind of embarrassing today because, like, you like the content, relationship driven lead the community driven. Looks so good and you're so beautiful and that you're expert at makeup. And, like, I'm working on, you know, thanks, but you are beautiful.

No, but, you know, I found that there wasn't a lot of women speaking to, you know, the stage of life that I was in where I still wanted to put makeup on and feel, you know, my best, but I didn't have the time, and I didn't want to use five eyeshadows on my eyes. And so I really took the approach of speaking to that woman. And so the brushes, you know, we design brushes that are easy to use. You know, I feel like you can look around in that space and I'm, you know, I have a make lead.

You can get to truth on those things in a much more efficient or precise way.

Yeah. And even going into developing our products or where we would fall in the spectrum of, you know, mass market versus prestige, we were sitting on the artist.

Background, but sometimes I pick up a brush and I'm like, what is this for? It's just so complicated. So it's all about a treasure trove.

Of data from Lisa's affiliate sales information.

That was a lot forward approach, keeping things simple. All of my. The content that I create is designed to just be, you know, just take away the intimidation of makeup. Because what I found is that a lot of women, I get emails all the time from women that are in their 40s or 50s that say, you know, I'm just starting to use makeup. And. And, you know, your videos are helping me so much. And so it just reminds me that makeup can be intimidating. And so that really kind of guides, you know, our products, our product roadmap and product development. You know, we're all about speaking to that woman and creating products for her.

And I would just add quickly, you know, tools are important, but why brushes first for us, from a business strategy standpoint, brushes are the one thing that every YouTube about her audience. And so that really drove our decisions around product development tutorial has in common. Right. They'll be talking about the latest eyeshadow palette pricing communication.

Those are the kind of things I think that are super interesting. Right. They're the things that drive confidence in, like the new rollouts you'd be doing in your business and being able to kind of, you know, really make some informed, predictive outlook on what.

Yeah, but every time they're going to be using a brush to talk about that product, whether it's a new foundation, eyeshadow palette, as I mentioned, any sort of application involves brushes. It was also a very. It wasn't as noisy of a space in terms of color cosmetics to kind of start with the thin edge of the wedge, so to speak. And beyond that, our sales are actually bigger than Lisa's reach alone. We basically have a network of other very close friends that we've developed over time. But these are other people who look like Lisa, what she's doing. And so they've been huge support of our growth as well. 20% of those sales I mentioned actually come.

The potential is there. And then for it to become a playbook. So with that in mind, maybe just tangibly talk a little bit about how you decided to do brushes and then how you're approaching color as a next phase.

Sure. So I'll take that one.

So brushes directly from third party folks talking about us, and they're compensated today.

The decision to do brushes came from, you know, having a makeup artist background. One thing I've always said in so many of my videos is that you can be just starting in makeup, and if you have the right brushes, it can do a lot of the work for you.

And on the other side through affiliate commission. And so that, that's a big part of our strategy. And those brushes, they're allowed to be in videos. And so if you look at just.

That, you can be a professional makeup artist, have the wrong brushes, and be.

Extremely frustrated because you don't last 30 days. We've had dozens of other YouTubers talk about our products and their videos. And I was counting them up the other day and there was almost three.

Have the right tools. So I, I truly feel like brushes are the kind of foundation of a makeup application.

300 other new videos that were launched within the last 30 days that either have our product as a feature or kind of a supporting cast. And then, I mean, if you tally up all the views associated with those, it's 2 million views alone. And our product is getting so much earned media because of it. So that's a little insight into kind of from a strategic standpoint. Why Brooklyn?

Incredible. It's a real advantage in this category too. If I think about it like people are doing tutorials and in order to be, I think, authentic doing tutorials.

And you know, I, When I started YouTube, I was in my early 30s.

Girls, you have to use a range of different products. And so you've got people that are experts.

And so I was a little bit, I was a little bit older than a lot of the big channels on YouTube and I found like this kind of disconnect or this, this market that was that I.

That are willing to use other products, your products, to talk about how they.

Wasn'T really finding on YouTube. And that was women that were new moms that maybe didn't have things to life. Yeah, exactly. Well, especially in the makeup community, it's all about the newest product. And like Paul said, you know, there, it's a very. It's a category that there's just. You can't keep up with the launches. It's almost impossible. But the one thing that you always use is Your makeup brush and our brushes. You've seen them. I wanted them to be. I wanted them to stand out, but be sophisticated. I feel like, you know, when you look at brushes, you see that kind of the classic black professional look. You see the real colorful and kind of immature look. And I wanted to be. I wanted it to be recognizable. I wanted them to be used in videos. And that's really smart.

Yeah. How did you guys. This is a question that's somewhere weaved in the other things I mentioned. But I really wanted, you know, in.

My 20s, before kids, I had all the time in the world to, you know, sit down the vanity for 45 minutes and do my makeup all the.

Time in the world or just the perfect skin and you could just get up and go to ask it. It was just. How did you think about kind of Lisa J. As a personality on YouTube?

Well, what's funny is I did have better skin then, but I felt the need to pile on more.

That is how you work as you get older. It's like less makeup. Although kind of embarrassing today because, like, you and then BK Beauty as a brand and, like, you know what? Like, talk to me through, like, the process, because I'm sure you thought about, like, combining the two or where did you like.

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when we were talking about. About names for the brand, I knew pretty right off the bat that I didn't want to have Lisa J. Makeup tied to it. And I think it comes down to, you know, really finding purpose and a mission in my heart, and I wanted to be bigger than myself. I want. I knew initially it's going to be my viewers and my subscribers that are supporting me ordering the brushes. But I wanted to get to a point where, you know, someone might not know who I am, but they know about BK Beauty and finding that mission.

You know, to look so good and you're so beautiful and that you're expert at makeup. And, like, I'm working on, you know, thanks, but you are beautiful.

No, but tie beauty and kindness together and inner beauty and start that. That conversation. That's really, you know, I. I found that there wasn't a lot of women speaking to, you know, the stage of life that I was in where I still wanted to put makeup on and feel, you know, my best, but I didn't have really what motivated BK Beauty. And I. I also wanted to, you know, obviously I use them in all my videos, but I really want to be careful about not having my YouTube channel become a place that I'M only talking about because, you know, obviously I use.

You don't have BK Beauty really on the site.

Yeah, Well, I use them in all my videos and I have links in all the videos. And I always create videos when we have new product launches and I talk about them. But I. The very particular thing about YouTube is that people, they. You have to be very sensitive and be valuable and create and serve your community. And I feel like if I just created content that was obviously just promoting and marketing and selling my product all the time. I'm kind of the time. And I didn't want to use five eyeshadows on my eyes. And so I really took the approach of speaking to that woman. And so the brushes, you know, we design brushes that are walking away from serving them that education piece. And I feel like it's really important for me. Easy to use. You know, I feel like you can look around in that space and. And I'm, you know, I have a make. Me too.

Because.

Because without that community, I. We wouldn't be able. We wouldn't be here right now. Artist background. But sometimes I pick up a brush and I'm like, what is this for? It's just so complicated. So it's all about. And I really need to always honor that. So I am careful with that.

Is that what you're saying? In fact, I remember having a similar conversation with Emily White when she had into the Glass and then build Glossier and a lot of the same things that you were saying.

Yeah.

Provide the integrity of both of those. Exactly.

Questions for Paul or Lita. For Kirsten.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so, Kirsten, I know, you know, you are a steward of markets and behavior from people over time going into this new decade.

What are the forward approach?

Keeping things simple? All of my. The content that I create is designed.

To just big trends that you're seeing on your side that you're looking for, that you're trying to get ahead of.

You know, just take away the intimidation of makeup. Because what I found is that a lot of women.

What are the opportunities for you that you see?

Yeah, that's a good question. It's an intimidation.

I get emails all the time from women that are in their 40s or 50s that say, you know, I'm just starting to use makeup. And. And your videos are helping me so much. And so it just reminds me that makeup can be an intimidating question.

But we're always looking at a bunch of different trends. But the one that I think connects most to the conversation we're having and really is tied to consumer brands is the role of community. So there's been a lot of conversation about content and commerce. I don't know that anybody's nailed a unique business model around that and more that they've sort of figured out how to do a dance between the two. And there's a lot of different ways for doing that. And content has kind of changed into community. Yet if you think about it, we're still generally operating in a framework where we have a brand webinating.

And so that really kind of guides our products, our product roadmap and product development. We're all about speaking to that woman.

And creating products that you go to. There's a nav bar at the top. It says shop, you know, learn about us or whatever. But the communities in the background, I wonder if like for her.

And I would just add quickly, you know, somebody.

Should think about reorganizing that a bit. And I wonder what if you put the community at the front and the product as a secondary, supporting what that tools are important.

But why brushes first for us, from a business strategy standpoint, brushes are the one thing that every YouTube tutorial has in common. Right. They'll be talking about the latest eyeshadow palette, but every time they're gonna have be using a brush to talk about that product, whether it's a new foundation, eyeshadow palette. As I mentioned, any sort of application involves brushes. It was also a very. It wasn't as noisy of a space in terms of color cosmetics to kind of start with the thin edge of the wedge, so to speak. And beyond that, our sales are actually bigger than Lisa's reach alone. We basically have a network of other very close friends that we've developed over time. But these are other people who look like Lisa, what she's doing. And so they've been huge support of our growth as well. 20% of those sales I mentioned actually.

Come Experience would look like, you know, in some ways you guys are already doing it. Glossier is already doing it. But you still have a website that has, you know, the traditional shopping experience. We have that at Glossier too. I just wonder if like we're gonna evolve in terms of like the shopping experience in a way where it's flip.

Flopped instead of the directly from third party folks talking about us. And they're compensated today by through affiliate commission. And so that. That's a big part of our strategy. And those brushes, they're allowed to be in videos. And so if you look at just the last 30 days we've had dozens of other YouTubers talk about our products in their videos. And I was counting them up the other day, and There was almost 300 other new videos that were launched within the last 30 days that either have our product as a feature or kind of a supporting cast. And then, I mean, if you tally up all the views associated with those, it's 2 million views alone. And our product is getting so much earned media because of it. So that's a little insight into kind of from a strategic standpoint.

Why?

Incredible.

It's a real advantage in this cavity in the background and the shopping in the front and what that might look like, too. If I think about it like people are doing tutorials and in order to be, I think, authentic, doing tutorials. So, you know, I think it's interesting. I see a bunch of things that are about community that lack a business model. I see a bunch of things that are about products but lack context that people care about. I think these ideas of, like, you know, like, back to the. You have to use a range of different products. And so you've got people that are experts that are willing to use other products, your products, to talk about how they bring things to life.

Yeah, exactly. Well, especially in the makeup community, it's all about the newest product. And like Paul said, you know, there. It's a very. It's a category that there's just. You can't keep up with the launches. It's almost impossible. But the one thing that you always use is your makeup brush. And our brushes. You've seen them. I wanted them to be. I wanted them to stand out, but be sophisticated. I feel like, you know, when you look at brushes, you see that kind of the classic black professional look. You see the real colorful and kind of immature look. And I wanted it to be recognizable. I wanted them to be used in videos. And that's really smart.

Yeah. How did you guys. This is a question that's somewhere weaved in the other things I mentioned, but I really wanted to ask it. It was just. How did you think about kind of Lisa J. As a personality on YouTube? I think earlier we were talking about marketing or rising above the noise. I mean, the truth is, you have to figure out how to do all of it and do all of it in an authentic way.

It's.

You know, it was. In some ways, it's easier today to market than it was before, where there were these huge barriers to, like, you had to have, you know, big photo campaigns and big. There was limited places where you could. And then BK Beauty as a brand. And like, you know what? Like, talk to me through, like, the process, because I'm sure you thought about, like, combining the two or where did you like.

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when we were talking about. About names for the brand, I knew pretty right off the bat that I didn't want to have Lisa J. Makeup tied to it. And I think it comes down to, you know, really finding purpose and a mission in my heart, and I wanted to be bigger than myself. I want. I knew initially it's going to be my viewers and my subscribers that are supporting me ordering the brushes, but I wanted to get to a point where, you know, someone might not know who I am, but they know about BK Beauty and finding that mission, you know, to tie beauty and kindness together and inner beauty and start that. That conversation, that's really what motivated BK Beauty. And I. I also wanted to, you know, obviously advertise.

You pay hundreds of thousand dollars for Vogue now. You can do it in all these different places. But the challenge.

I use them in all my videos, but I. I really want to be careful about not having my YouTube channel become a place that I'm only talking about BK. You know, obviously, I use.

You don't have that. Is that. How do you show up authentically in all those different places and, you know, kind of translate your brand in all of those ways? And I think that's a really important part of the community because right now, communities are being built all over the place and people are looking for their brand. BK Beauty, really on the site.

Yeah. Well, I use them in all my videos, and I have links in all the videos, and I always create videos when we have new product launches, and I talk about them, but I. What the very particular thing about YouTube is that people.

They.

You have to be very sensitive and be valuable and create and serve your community. And I feel like if I just created content that was obviously just promoting and marketing and selling my product all the time, I'm kind of walking away from serving them that education piece. And I feel like it's really important for me to.

Because.

Because without that community, we wouldn't be able. We wouldn't be here right now. And I really need to always honor that. So I am careful with that.

Is that what you're saying? In fact, they're looking to connect with businesses in a way that they haven't before. And so remember having a similar conversation with Emily Weiss when she had into the Glass and then build glossier and a lot of the same things that you were saying. Yeah, provide the integrity of both of them. What does that mean? What does that mean for the hierarchy of priorities? It's showing up already in things like real synergies between content and introducing brands. It's showing up in like how you're naming your brand, you know, values being there, but. Exactly.

Questions for Paul or Lisa? For Kirsten?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so Kirsten, I know, you know, you are a steward of markets and behavior from people over time going into this new decade. What are the big trends that you're seeing on your side that you're looking for, that you're trying to get ahead of? What are the opportunities for you that you see?

Yeah, that's a good question. It's an intimidating question. But, you know, we're always looking at like a bunch of different trends, but the one that I think connects most to the conversation we're having and really is tied to consumer brands is the role of community. So there's been a lot of conversation. You know, is there a. Is there a model that like, looks really different for how those things come together? That's one of them. You know, another big idea is like, I do think that, like this idea has been around for a long time. Sustainability. I sort of, you know, dabbled in it, in investing in kind of the earliest two things about content and commerce. I don't know that like anybody's nailed like a unique business model around that. It was more that they've sort of figured out how to do a dance between the two. And there's a lot of different ways for doing that. And content has kind of changed into community. Yet if you think about it, we're still generally operating in a framework where we have a brand website. You go to, there's a nav bar at the top, it says shop, learn about us or whatever. But the communities in the background, I wonder if, like, somebody should think about reorganizing that a bit. And I wonder, what if you put the community at the front and the product as a secondary, supporting what that experience would look like? You know, in some ways you guys are already doing it. Glossier is already doing it. But you still have a website that has, you know, the traditional shopping experience. We have that at Glossier too. I just wonder if, like, we're gonna evolve in terms of like the shopping experience in a way where it's flip flopped instead of the 1000s, mid 2000s. And at that point it really felt like there was a relatively small audience and that the supply chains weren't up to par with how to produce products that were as good quality and certainly not as good of prices. I think now there's infrastructure's been built and it's better for that. But more importantly in the background and the shopping in the front and what that might look like. So I think it's interesting. I see a bunch of things that are about community that lack a business model. I see a bunch of things that are about products but lack context that people care about. I think these ideas of. Back to the. I think earlier we were talking about marketing or rising above the noise. I mean, the truth is you have to figure out how to do all of it and do all of it in an authentic way. It's, you know, it was. In some ways, it's easier today to market than it was before, where there were these huge barriers to, like, you had to have, you know, big photo campaigns and big. There was limited places where you could advertise. You'd pay hundreds of thousand dollars for Vogue. Now you can do it in all these different places. But the challenge is consumers starting to really demand it. They're starting to really, like, call people out for it. So I think it's another demonstration. I know that is something. But the bigger trend I wanted to to articulate was the alignment of values and companies. I noticed even 10 years ago how many more people were going to the About Us page to learn about that. Is that how do you show up authentically in all those different places and kind of translate your brand in all of those ways? And I think that's a really important part of the community because right now, communities are being built all over the place and people are looking for their brand. They're looking to connect with businesses in a way that they haven't before. And so what does that mean? What does that mean for the hierarchy of priorities? It's showing up already in things like real synergies between content and introducing brands. It's showing up in how you're naming your brand values, being there. But is there a model that looks really different for how those things come together? That's one of them. Another big idea is I do think that this idea has been around for a long time. Sustainability. I sort of dabbled in it and investing in kind of the earliest 2000s, mid 2000s. And at that point it really felt like there was a relatively small odd who was behind the brand. I think that is becoming a bigger and bigger driver of purchase decisions. And that's pretty connected to the other topic, which is like, you Know, what does your business stand for? Like, how are you engaging with people? What are your positions? Whether it's like, morally or towards the category or even politically, we've seen that happen and that the supply chains weren't up to par with how to produce products that were of good as good quality and certainly not as good of prices. I think now there's infrastructure's been built and it's better for that. But more importantly, the consumer starting to really demand it. They're starting to really, like, call people out for it. So I think it's another demonstration. I know that is something. But the bigger trend I wanted to articulate was the alignment of values and companies. I noticed even 10 years ago how many more people were going to the About Us page to learn about who was behind the brand. I think that is becoming a bigger and bigger driver of purchasing decisions. And that's pretty connected to the other topic, which is like, you know, what does your business stand for? Like, how are you engaging with people? Like, what are your. What are your positions? Whether it's like, morally or towards the category or even politically. We've seen that happen over the last couple months in earnest topics and over the last couple months in earnest topics. So I think, you know, kind of the definition of value continues to evolve in the eye of the consumer that will ask businesses to change their operations to meet that too.

I know that we're almost at the top of the.

So I think, you know, kind of the definition of value continues to evolve in the eye of the consumer that will ask businesses to change their operations to meet that too.

I know that we're almost at the top of the hour. Lisa Paul, any more questions before I jump in?

Go ahead. I do have a question. So I do feel like the makeup and beauty space, and I'm going to use that word you used earlier, but disruption. I think the communities, you know, on social media, specifically in like the beauty community, have really disrupted large, huge brands that you see at the department store.

Yep.

Lisa Paul, any more questions before I jump in?

So it's. So you confirmed that. Are there any other categories that you see that happening in or do you.

Feel like happened in? I mean, it's a good point. It's happened in beauty almost more than other categories. And I think it is because. Go ahead.

I do have a question.

So it is so fun to watch your videos and how to, like, contour better or do this or that.

I do feel like the makeup and beauty space, and I'm gonna use that word, you used earlier but disruption. I think the communities, you know, on social media, specifically in like the beauty community, have really better.

And like it's not that it's not fun to watch people talk about fashion or other things, but it's not as like universally like practical or translatable. So I think it's been, you know, it's been more successful in those ways. But I do think that like there's more evolution to come in video. You know, if you can't deny the trend of like more people being comfortable with video, more people accessing video, kind of more, you know, more types units of content of video, I think that continues to be a super important part of the mix for consumers and I expect that other sectors will figure out how to make it work for them. But there's work to do there for sure.

This has been awesome. I've really just sitting back and watching. I was telling Nick before, I wish we could just do this.

They disrupted large huge brands that you see at the department store. Yep. So you confirm that. Are there any other categories that you see that happening in or do you.

Feel like happened in? I mean it's a good point. It's happened in beauty almost more than other categories. And I think it is because one.

In person for like three hours. So maybe another day. Curious. Kirsten's like, no, I've got stuff to do.

Yeah, this was fun. Thank you guys for sharing your story and congrats on your really encouraging, exciting business.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

It is so fun to watch your videos and learn how to like contour better or do this or that.

Really appreciate you all joining us. And then I know also Lisa and Paul have a lot more just that they've shared with me behind the scenes from again like he talked about the brushes in the video to subscription products, to collabs and partnerships. So I know a lot more there that would really nail on some of the questions that Kirsten outlined in advance. So hopefully you guys get to connect. And also just some of the concepts you nailed as well like viewing the product or the brush as like a supporting cast within a video. Like I remember the first time you mentioned that I was just. I've never thought about things in that manner. And then earned media, you know, not being traditional mainstream media, but it some of the up and coming YouTube channels.

Yeah.

And then how you start picking better.

And like it's not that it's not fun to watch people talk about fashion or other things, but it's not as like universally like, practical or translatable. So I think it's been, you know.

Have that at scale, and then you start seeing everybody kind of copy and follow each other, and that really puts things on the map.

So it's been more successful in those ways. But I do think that, like, there's more evolution to come in video. You know, if you can't deny the trend of, like, more people being comfortable with video, more people.

I love it. So we're going to end. So first, again, thank you to our guests for joining us. Thank you to the audience. I know there's a lot of things you can do with an hour of your time, so I really appreciate that. And we'll end with the question that we always do. And Lisa and Paul, we'll start with you and then jump over to Kirsten to close it out. What is the number one piece of advice that you would give to an entrepreneur today?

Oh, you want me to go first?

You go first.

Okay. Well, I mean, I didn't prepare for this question, so I'm just gonna throw it at the.

Whatever.

Yeah. So this is real time.

Let's do it.

I would say, I mean, the easiest thing is just start.

That's gets people accessing video kind of more, you know, more types units of content.

Some velocity behind you. I'm a huge listener of How I Built this by Guy Raz on npr.

I think that continues to be a super important part of the mix for consumers, and I expect that other sectors will figure out how to make it.

Work for them and leading up to the launch in preparation for starting our business.

But there's work to do there for sure.

This has been awesome.

It was a huge inspiration to hear the stories, like, the raw stories of other very successful companies that we all know and love. And one of them I still remember. But there was a quote that the guy who started Peloton mentioned, and it really resonated with me and stuck with me. But it goes risk is the price the tariff paid to leave the shores of the perpetual misery. And so it's a little. But ultimately, like, you need to take a risk if you want to kind of get out of the orbit you're in right now. And so I would just say do it.

And then my advice would be similar.

I've really just sitting back and watching. I was telling Nick before, I wish we could just do this.

What Kirsten said earlier, when it comes to, you know, specifically talking to people that want to create one important person.

For, like, three hours. So maybe another day. Kirsten's like no, I've got stuff to do.

Yeah, this was fun. Thank you guys for sharing your story.

The community or put themselves out there. It's just to be authentic, be honest, focus on serving a community and creating value for your community. Don't get focused in sales or numbers initially because all of that I think comes when you do have that loyal trust.

Congrats on your really encouraging, exciting business.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Did community.

I think that's both really great advice. I double down on that and add that. Keep an open mind. Keep an open mind to the journey. One thing I think about every time I invest in an early stage business is I have an important comp. I have a conversation that I put a lot of value into around what the plan is. How are you guys thinking about as we touched on at the kind of last bucket of questions the next 12 months, the next 36 months. But what I also know is that without doubt it's going to be different. That's not exactly how it's going to play out. And the best companies, they embrace the change and all the learnings along the way and keep reinventing what they're doing.

Really appreciate you all joining us. And then I know also Lisa and Paul have a lot more just that they've shared with me behind the scenes from you know again like he talked about the brushes and the videos to subscription products to collabs and partnerships. So I know a lot more there that would really nail on some of the questions that Kirsten outlined in advance. So hopefully you guys get to connect.

And also without like you know, flip flopping and changing it. So you have a big goal out there. But be open minded around what the journey looks like to get there. I would not have 4runner if I didn't do that myself and I've seen that time and time again with lots of other entrepreneurs.

I love it. So just launched Be authentic and honest and keep an open mind. Enjoy the journey. I may have owned a travel blog called the Journey is the Goal a long time ago. Don't google it because I don't own it anymore. And so yeah, I guess the hair was equally as long. So we'll call it Hair. Anyways, thank you everybody for joining us. This was amazing. We'll see you all next. Just some of the concepts you nailed as well like viewing the product Wednesday.

Thank you Nick. Nice to meet you everybody. Bye bye bye.

After the Brush is like a supporting cast within a video. I can remember the first time you mentioned that I was just. I've never thought about things in that manner. And then earned media, you know, not being traditional mainstream media, but it's some of the up and coming YouTube channels, and then how you start picking up that at scale and then you start seeing everybody kind of copy and follow each other, and that really puts things on the map. So I love it. So we're going to end. So first, again, thank you to our guests for joining us. Thank you to the audience. I know there's a lot of things you can do with an hour of your time, so I really appreciate that. We'll end with a question that we always do. And Lisa and Paul, we'll start with you and then jump over to Kirsten to close it out. What is the number one piece of advice that you would give to an entrepreneur today?

Oh, you want me to go first? Okay. Well, I mean, I didn't prepare for this question, so I'm just gonna throw an asset. Whatever. Yeah. So this is real time.

Let's do it.

I would say. I mean, the easiest thing is just start. That's. Get some. Some velocity behind you. I'm a huge listener of How I Built this by Guy Raz on npr. And leading up to the launch, in preparation for starting our business, it was a huge inspiration to hear the stories, like the raw stories of other very successful companies that we all know and love. And one of them I still remember, but there was a quote that the guy who started Peloton mentioned, and it really resonated with me and stuck with me. But it goes, you know, risk is the price, the tariff paid to leave the shores of perpetual misery. And so it's a little. But ultimately, like, you need to take a risk if you want to kind of get out of the orbit you're in right now. And so I would just say do it.

And then my advice would be similar to what Kirsten said earlier. When it comes to, you know, specifically talking to people that want to create a community or put themselves out there, it's just to be authentic, be honest. Focus on serving a community and creating value for your community. Don't get focused in sales or numbers initially because all of that, I think, comes when you do have that loyal, trusted community.

I think that's both really great advice. I double down on that and add that. Keep an open mind. Keep an open mind to the journey. One thing I think about every time I invest in an early stage business is I have an important comp. I have a conversation that I put a lot of value into around what the plan is. How are you guys thinking about, as we touched on at the last bucket of questions, the next 12 months, the next 36 months. But what I also know is that without doubt, it's going to be different. That's not exactly how it's going to play out. And the best company, they embrace the change and all the learnings along the way and keep reinventing what they're doing without, like, you know, flip flopping and changing it. So you have a big goal out there, but be open minded around what the journey looks like to get there. I would not have forerunner if I didn't do that myself. And I've seen that time and time again with lots of entrepreneurs.

I love it. So just launched, be authentic and honest and keep an open mind. Enjoy the journey. I may have owned a travel blog called the Journey is the.