#001 - Sarah Lucas (29 years) on Becoming a Science Superstar and Following Your Gut

Welcome to the hackiversity podcast, where students learn how to achieve more by doing less in college. Learn the hacks from wildly successful recent college graduates as your host, Kyle Whine explores the colleges, majors and paths that produce the biggest results in college using less effort. It's hacking time.

What's up all you college hackers? Hey guys out there. Kyle Whiney here and I couldn't be more excited to welcome my first guest, Sara Lucas, to the show. Sarah is a good friend, amazing person, and a science superstar. Even Though she's only 29 years old, Sarah graduated from Penn State University in 2010 with a Bachelor's degree in microbiology and is currently pursuing her PhD in microbiology at the University of Minnesota. Immediately after undergrad, Sarah worked for the prestigious J. Craig Venter Institute where she conducted cutting ed science research. As of today, Sarah has authored five peer reviewed publications, an amazing feat for someone so young. If that's not enough, Sarah has received a fellowship grant from the National Institutes of Health which supports the truly transformative research she does. Sarah has presented her work at some of the best science institutions in the world, such as the Mayo Clinic, among many others. In this episode, Sarah and I cover how to know whether you found the right major, the importance of grades or lack thereof in college success, and the career options for students pursuing a science degree. With the stage set, let's dig in.

Sarah, thanks so much for joining me today on the very first hackiversity podcast episode. How does that make you feel?

I'm very excited to be on this podcast, Kyle. Yeah.

So, Sarah, you and I share a very close mutual friend. I'd love to hear how through that mutual friend, you and I met and kind of. What's your rendition of the story?

Well, our mutual friend is actually. We're talking about Andrea, right?

That's right.

Okay. Andrea is my twin sister and who's also my girlfriend. Who's also your girlfriend. And I remember her coming home and being like, there's this guy Kyle that I'm really excited about. And he also went to Penn State, which is where I got my undergraduate degree. I think a funny aspect to our story is that we both kind of knew of each other through the snowboarding club, right?

Yeah, we had a mutual friend in snowboarding club when we were at school. Although I didn't know you at the time there, I just knew of you.

It's such a massive school. I think it's funny when people are like, oh, you went to Penn State, did you know so and so there's.

Like a zero percent chance of that ever happening, Right?

Exactly. But it's such a huge school. It's no surprise that, you know, Andrea found a Penn Stater to date. And of course I approve.

What's not to like? What's, what's not to love about Penn State? Right?

I agree. I agree.

So, Sarah, you have accomplished so much in just such a very short time from your Penn State days, and it's really hard to know where exactly to dig in. So why don't we start here? When someone asks you what do you do? How do you answer that question?

Oh, gosh, it really depends on the person asking the question. So I think my general answer is that I'm a scientist first and foremost. But then if they want to know more, I'll go into that. I'm a graduate research assistant, that I'm a candidate for my PhD at the University of Minnesota. Yeah. And so I guess that's a good starting point.

That's a great starting point. Let me fill in some gaps for us. So you are how old?

I'm 29 years old.

You're 29 years old, and at this point in your life, you have authored four peer reviewed research papers. Right. And you're in the process of submitting your very first author publication for peer reviewed peer review, Right?

Correct. Yep. Well, we just submitted on Monday, so it was a very exciting experience for me.

That is incredibly exciting. Can you talk about the significance of that and what your research is on and what you've been up to?

Absolutely. So for an early career scientist or anyone who's interested in a career in academia, submitting your work and communicating your research is really, really important to your career. And doing independent work in which you're the first author or so you're the person who wrote up the background and results and conclusions of your research is a really exciting first step and it's also really essential. So the more you contribute to the body of work in your field, that is sort of a career currency. So yeah, to be in my third year of graduate school, submitting my first first author publication is really exciting.

That's super exciting. And how many of your peers are at that point in their career?

So this is actually kind of a subjective thing as far as like timing, but I think only a few of us have first author publications in my year. I think I can only think of one other person actually.

That's really remarkable. Sarah, great for you.

Thank you.

So what exactly are you writing about? What are you passionate about? What's your research On.

Yes. So I'll just kind of glaze over the background of this first submission because it hasn't been accepted yet. But basically I am really interested in the microorganisms that colonize the human body. So there are far more microorganisms that do this that we are incapable of culturing and studying in depth in the lab. But we know that they exist because of their genetic material that we can sequence. So I am particularly interested in those. We refer to them as microbiota, or the microbiome microbial communities that colonize healthy and diseased respiratory systems. One patient population where disease of the respiratory system is really important to the morbidity or mortality of this population is the cystic fibrosis population. So my work really focuses on the CF patient population and specifically how that being cystic fibrosis. Right, yes, sorry. Cf cystic fibrosis. Yeah. How the microbial communities of the upper respiratory tract affect the development and disease progression of the lower respiratory tract.

So basically you're helping people breathe easier and therefore saving lives, is that right?

Yeah, in the CF population. Yep, that's true. Well, I mean, hopefully that's always the goal.

Right? Well, that's really amazing, especially considering, you know, 29 years old, you haven't even finished your complete education yet, you're still in school, getting your PhD and you're doing all these amazing things. Really incredible as part of your PhD program. Sarah, I know that you're on this three year fellowship grant from the National Institutes of Health that includes a full stipend and full financial research support. So can you talk about what that means and what that fellowship grant allows you to do and just how important that aspect is to saving lives, as it were.

Sure. So, yeah, the great thing about being a graduate student in the life sciences is the availability of these competitive fellowships from the National Institutes of Health and really the support that they offer. It covers a couple of bases. One is a stipend. So I get paid to go to school. And that's just wonderful for a graduate student because science is not the most lucrative job. So, you know, it's a very, very modest stipend, but it covers the rent. And so, living expenses aside, the grant also gives me funds to support my research. So I get a little bit of money on the side that goes to my, my research. And then additionally I get funds to travel, which is really important for young career scientists or early career scientists. Yeah.

Tell me more about your travel.

Yep. So it's, it's really important as an early career Scientist or student to get out to conferences and continuously communicate your research. That's a really, really big part of getting your foot in the door.

Where have you spoken at for these conferences?

Yeah, so I've presented at the Mayo Clinic at their, let's see, it was the Microbial Ecology retreat last year, which was really exciting for me.

And the Mayo Clinic is one of the top scientific organizations in the nation, right?

Yeah. And they are really, really excited about microbial ecology and studying the microbiome of the human body. So that was a really exciting experience. Were you nervous?

Speaking?

I was so nervous to be honest.

Was it just a bunch of, you know, 35, 45, 55, 65 year old people in the room and then there's, you know, Sarah Lucas, the 20 something presenting.

I think I was the youngest in the room for sure, of course.

But that's a real honor.

It was really exciting. And then so that, you know, I've also shown posters of my work at bigger research conferences.

And how did you go about landing these?

Well, for these conferences there's always a call for abstracts that you sort of submit a little like paragraph summary of your work and then your abstract gets selected. And I just happened to get selected. And then for the Mayo Clinic, research is very serendipitous. Actually we just got invited to speak.

At that because someone heard about how great your work was or how did you get selected?

It's not as glamorous as unfortunately. Well, I stand on the shoulders of giants and I also as a student rely a lot on the reputation of my advisor. And I think we do really exciting work in our, in our lab. So Ryan Hunter is my advisor and you know, they were excited about the work he was doing and they were like, you know, send a student to come talk to us. And Ryan tapped me to be our lab liaison and that was really exciting for me.

That was really amazing. And so Sarah, I know after you graduated Penn State that you spent around four years doing research for the Craig Venter Institute. And so for everyone out there, Craig Venter was one of the people who helped map the human genome. Right, Sarah? With Francis Collins.

Correct.

And right now Craig Venter is kind of one of the leading human life extension people out there. I know that he co founded Human Longevity. And the reason why I know that is because I love to follow Peter Diamandis. He's one of the entrepreneurs I kind of look up to and follow. And he is always plugging Craig Venter. And so I know that Craig kind of stands in a League of His Own, and you got to work at his institute. So can you tell. Can you talk about the things that you were doing there and kind of how those things influence your ultimate decision to go get a PhD at Minnesota?

Absolutely. I think this story of how I got there kind of begins with a New York Times article where I was in the last year of my time at Penn State, and I was reading the New York Times, and I was reading this article about the human microbiome or like the microorganisms that colonize the human body. And they had interviews. It was Carl Zimmer, who's a fabulous science reporter, interviewing Karen Nelson. And it was a moment I will remember forever where I was reading this article and I was like, this is what I have to do.

It was that easy for you?

Well, I know it's really cliche to say that a switch was flipped, but I just remember sitting at my desk and being like, I'm going to do this.

It's kind of like love at first sight, right?

Yeah. I was sort of exploring ideas of what I wanted my career to look like. And I was just reading this article and I recognized that I hadn't felt this way about a topic ever. So, yeah, I immediately looked up the company that. So Karen Nelson was the scientist that was being interviewed. And I looked up J. Craig Ventura Institute online. And very serendipitously, Karen Nelson's lab was looking for a research associate. So I always think of that little piece of. Of information as being really a little bit of luck, a little bit of, you know, me putting myself out there. But, yeah, I applied and I got the job.

And so what were you doing? What kind of research were you doing when you got there?

When I got there. So there was this NIH initiative called the Human Microbiome Project, and J. Craig Venture Institute was a participating sequencing center. So a lot of the projects that came into Karen Nelson's lab were sequencing projects that we were characterizing the microbial community so that we were sequencing the genomic content of different microbial communities and determining what organisms lived where. So a lot of my work was preparing samples for that sequencing. So I worked with, you know, some really gross samples and some environmental samples. But, yeah, it was a lot of fun, and it was a really exciting place to be a new graduate.

Yeah, it seems like you just weren't going there, checking the boxes and then going home. It sounded like you're doing real meaningful, impactful things.

And it's something I just really love about nonprofit science. Like the Science, the work that J. Craig Venture Institute does. I got to work with people who are just excited about what they do all the time. And that was in turn really, really inspiring for me. Not only are they really excited about what they do and really passionate, but they're like brilliant.

Yeah, it's just kind of infectious. Right. You get around those people and you just feed off of that.

I cannot stress that enough. The environment that you're in is so important. But yeah, that had a huge impact in whether I wanted to go to graduate school or not. And I think I recognize that this is more than just an interest to me. It's something that I wanted to do with my life.

Kind of like a calling or purpose like I talk about in my book.

Absolutely. Yep.

Yeah. That's amazing. So, Sarah, let's wind the clock back even further. Back to the good old Penn State days. Happy Valley.

Happy Valley.

And so you chose to attend Penn State, but you lived in Virginia. You live close to where I live now. And so can you walk me through why you chose Penn State, particularly as someone who was out of state?

Yeah, well, like any 18 year old, I was a little bit entranced with the idea of moving away. And I think originally I wanted to go all the way to California, but my parents were like, no, too far. Too far, yeah. But I knew someone at Penn State, so I had gone to visit before and it was a previous co worker of mine. And then I went up for an official visit. And you know as well as I do how beautiful Penn State is.

It is spectacular.

It is your quintessential college campus. And I just fell in love with it immediately. And I recognized that they had a really amazing reputation for getting undergraduates involved in science and especially microbiology.

So it was really the. It was the opportunity to do practical research on top of just how beautiful Penn State is. And the fact that it was a way that kind of pulled you there, huh?

Absolutely. I don't know if you notice a trend or not, but I get swept away very easily.

It's all this sciencey microbiome stuff that you just love.

I follow my gut for sure. Which, for better or for worse.

Right, right, right. So when you got to Penn State, kind of walk me through what it was like getting there as someone who was out of state, trying to fit into the college environment, particularly at such a big school. You know, Penn state has around 44,000 people. I think it is now at campus. It's a really big school. So walk me through how you kind of made A community there and kind of fit into that environment.

Well, I think it was really impactful for me. I serendipitously got place in the engineering dorm, but I'm not an engineer. I was in the life sciences, and it was just because they had run out of space in west halls.

Yeah. Out there with all the good cookies in the cafeteria. Right.

We have the best cookies.

So. Good cookies.

Well, I mean, first of all, what I knew I didn't want is to.

Live in the east halls with all the other freshmen. Right?

Correct. And, you know, I think maybe I missed out on a little bit of experience there, but I really wanted to live in west halls, so I ended up being in the engineering dorm, which was so amazing in hindsight, because we go back to this idea of community. Engineers are tinkerers. They're thinkers, you know, and you fed.

Off of that, I'm guessing.

It was another one of those scenarios where I was put into a community of people who are. Who were really kind of go getters, kind of, like, excited about learning, which I think was really important for me. Yeah, community.

Yeah. Yeah. Community is so important, particularly at a big school. I know it was for me. I mean, you really have to kind of find your tribe, and, you know, if you do that, you can really make a big school feel small. So I know when people always talk to me and ask me about whether or not they should be intimidated from a big school, you know, kind of like you. I always share how you can kind of find your people and make your own way, and it can feel as big or. Or as small as you want it to feel.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So, Sarah, when you were at Penn State, I know you did a lot of research, so tell me how important that was to where you're at now and what kind of research exactly were you doing while you were there?

Yeah. So looking back now, I think I started to do research in my junior year of college, and I was doing immunology research, but it was studying sort of the immunology of the development of cancer. And, you know, sometimes we do things and it's a really, really good experience for what we don't want in life.

Yeah, yeah, true.

They are so valuable, those experiences. So.

So you did not want to do that, Correct?

Yeah. And I think at that point I had two years of experience doing research in that field, and it was exciting and it was interesting, but it wasn't. I just didn't, you know, I wasn't, like, ready for more, I guess.

Is that how you knew you didn't like it. How could you tell what was different about your cancer research versus what you do now with microbiology?

So I think with any type of research you spend a lot of time just reading and thinking and mulling over your ideas. And I just never. I never felt that excitement. And maybe it had something to do with, you know, I was taking classes and doing more undergraduate things, but that the questions that were being asked and at least that lab just weren't very exciting for me. And, you know, you have to kind of be excited about it because it's. To anyone else, it probably seems super boring. Yeah, it just wasn't exciting.

Yeah. And how did you balance that kind of research, practical side of your college career versus the in class academic side? Was there one that was kind of more important than the other? And if so, which part was it? How did you kind of fit it all in?

Absolutely. Well, obviously your courses are really important. They're kind of why you're in school, what you are paying for. So first priority was doing well in school, but actually doing well in my classes and working in a lab were very intertwined. The success of one kind of fed into the success of the other. So, yeah, I would spend a lot of time doing my homework in lab. But yeah.

Did you have a social life in college or was it just kind of nose to the grindstone? You know, research things, sciencey things?

That's a good question. I had a social life, I think so, yeah.

Well, let's be honest. You were the social chair of the snowboard club, right?

I was. I was the party planner.

That's right.

So I don't know if this is appropriate for your podcast, but I won that position through a beer pong tournament.

Well, those things do happen, of course, on campus too. Along with all the hacking. The college hacking? Yes, yes.

There's a fair amount of work hard, play hard. So, yeah, you have to let loose occasionally. You can't just. You have to have balance, for sure.

Yeah. So would you say that your science track was more rigorous and more demanding than other people on campus? How did your career in college kind of stack up in terms of the demands versus other people?

So as far as the sciences at Penn State goes, and this is just my own personal opinion, but the biochemistry and molecular biology department, which is where I got my degree from, was notoriously difficult. It had a reputation for being a really rigorous academic experience. So, yeah, I can only go off of that. I didn't do so well in some classes and did really well in others. So it was kind of a balance.

Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, Sarah. So a lot of students, they really fret that they need straight A's and everything. And here you are, super successful, super accomplished at 29, and you didn't, you know, knock it out of the park in every single class in college. So what do you tell students when they say, you know, I just, I'm really fretting over this next exam. I really need to get an A. I really need a 4.0 this semester. What do you tell that person?

You. I mean, I say go for it and work as hard as you can. That being said, it is not worth your mental health, it's not worth your happiness if you are running really, really hard at something that just that you don't like, that's not good for anyone. And also, it's okay to get a bad grade once in a while, especially if there are so many other factors that get taken into account when you're looking for that next step, you know, like a career or graduate school or medical school.

So if someone gets a C in art history and they really want to be a scientist, that's not going to hold them back, is what you're saying.

Do not lose sleep over that.

Do not lose sleep over art History, everyone.

No. And in fact, if you're interested in something like graduate school, you know, work on your writing, work on your, you know, getting into a lab and doing research, those things are going to go and take you so much farther than that. You know, a C in art history is not going to. No one's going to blink an eye at that.

Yeah, I love that. Actually, in my book I talk about what I call non negotiable skills. And writing is certainly one of those.

You know, it is so important.

It's so important. I mean it. No matter really what you do, you're going to be writing, you're going to be communicating, you need to do it well, no matter if you're a scientist, art history major, whatever it is. You're right. Writing is really, really key in college. So, Sarah, speaking about doing, you know, kind of figuring out what matters, what doesn't at college, did you do all your homework assignments when you were there?

I'm looking back, I had to pause for a second, but I did. It's not really part of my personality to take something on and then not follow through.

Does that include all the reading or is that just all the stuff you had to turn in?

Well, you have to prioritize sometimes and If. But of course I would. You know, it's terrible to get a bad grade because you didn't do the work.

Right. Right. You want to get the low hanging fruit. Right. So if there's something that needs turned in, you got to turn it in.

You have to show up. The majority of. At least in my experience, the success that I have experienced is you just got to show up, man, I love it.

It's just that simple.

It's. You have to put in the work and people will put in the work for you. And college is 100% that you have. Yeah. You have to show up.

So show up the classes, do your work. What else are some of the. How about class? You got to show up to class, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have skipped class before. I will be the first one to raise my hand and say that I was working really hard on a paper for another class and. But in. In general. No. You. I don't know. I had this idea that I was like paying a lot of money to go to school, so it was kind of my job. I. Yeah, yeah.

So you graduate Penn State and then you go to the Craig Venter Institute and then you go on to Minnesota. Right. So now we're in kind of the second leg of your education. Why the University of Minnesota? I mean, when I think of Minnesota, I just think of the twins who aren't really all that good, and I just think of really cold weather.

So why did you choose to go up there?

It is really cold here. Yeah. But the winters aren't that bad.

Thank you. Climate change, right?

You know, they get. Yeah, it's been quite warm, apparently. So I've heard. But you know what, A lot of decisions that you make in your life are not going to be purely for ambition or. I know there's a lot of factors that go into why you make decisions in life. I got married to another scientist who I was madly in love with.

And how old were you when this happened?

I was 25.

25 and got married. Okay.

Yeah. And when you're in a relationship with another scientist. So opportunities, career opportunities for scientists are really quite limited. So you kind of have to go where the job is. And it was so lucky that I got into graduate school and he got a postdoctoral position. So that's the sort of the training you do after you get a PhD, but prior to becoming a faculty member.

So even more schooling.

Yeah, it's kind of like a residency for physicians or. Yep. So we were super lucky that the place that that happened was university of Minnesota, which just happens to have amazing programs for microbiologists. So I, you know, I feel really, really lucky to be where I landed. And it was one of the situations where I just applied to the program and got in. So we went.

That's amazing. And I know that University of Minnesota clearly has a great program because it's really allowed you to do everything that you've done. Sarah, do you think that your undergrad degree in microbiology basically required that you pursue a doctorate degree?

No, absolutely not.

So what else could you have done had you decided not to pursue a PhD?

There are a lot of opportunities actually for people with scientific training in general and then also microbiologists. So I could have stayed at my job at Dre Kirk Venture Institute. You know, let's see. Here in Minnesota, actually being a microbiologist for the breweries around here is kind of a big deal.

And also sounds like really fun.

Really fun. Yeah, I just went to a talk by a brewing microbiologist yesterday. You can also go work at pharmaceutical companies. You can, a lot of people take your scientific training and your scientific knowledge, and you can apply that to a lot of different jobs in biotech and pharmaceuticals.

So for students interested in biology, they don't necessarily have to follow your particular college career track, as it were, and go to PhD, go get their PhD. There are a wide variety of opportunities available to them in the workplace. Right?

Absolutely. Yep. The biology degree is not dead. You have a lot of opportunity available to you.

Well, how does your education kind of what you're doing at the University of Minnesota differ from everything you did at Penn State for undergrad?

So I think the learning style in graduate school is a lot more compatible with the way that I learn. A lot of our courses are. So a lot of my undergraduate courses were kind of massive forum style classes where it was just kind of memorize everything in this chapter and then take a test on it. And that just wasn't the way I liked to approach things at all. But in graduate school at Minnesota, a lot of my coursework has been kind of, let's read this paper and then talk about it and let's sort of dissect the scientific question and talk about the methods that were used and the results that were found and just kind of that, that sort of learning, that sort of kinesthetic learning was, has really been beneficial to my education, I think.

So there's a lot more application of what you're learning. Right. It's not just kind of cram and regurgitate on a piece of paper during the exam, right?

Yeah, 100%. And I think that is really more facilitated by the smaller class sizes.

So who do you think should go and pursue their PhD in science or microbiology and who should just go right into the workplace after undergrad?

I think pursuing your pursuing graduate education sort of requires that you're very passionate about a subject, that you don't mind communicating through writing and presenting and not necessarily motivated by success. I read that, you know, in your book, that delineation between being passionate about a subject and being passionate about success, if you. I know this is also very cliche. If you want to live to work, then graduate degree in science might be good for you. But if you want to work to live, I might go into industry or something that you definitely get paid a lot more money. There's a lot more financial gain for your input.

So it seems like the people who you recommend going to pursue a PhD are people who have had that kind of love at first sight moment that you had where they're just kind of on fire for science. They know that this is something that they want to dedicate their life to and they don't mind kind of paying the price, as it were, in terms of more time, more moving, more just sacrifice to do what they love because it's worth it. And if they don't see it that way, then they should go get a job, go make money, and go live their life. Right?

I think that's 100% correct. Yeah. There are a lot of sacrifices, unfortunately, with pursuing an academic career. And yeah, you got to be in it.

Got to be in it to win it.

To win it, absolutely.

So, Sarah, we're going to transition to what I like to call the rapid fire question section. So this is where I offer up some quick hitting questions, but that doesn't mean that your answer has to be quick hitting. Okay. So feel free to take as much time as you'd like. I just have kind of short questions to ask you. So are you ready?

I am ready.

Let's do it. So would you say there's a specific college track to get you, Sara Lucas, where you are today?

Specific college track, yes. And it looks like this. You enter undergraduate, you focus a lot on your basic science courses. In order to get into a competitive graduate program, getting involved in undergraduate research is essential. Getting your feet wet in the lab and. And getting those laboratory skills is essential. So your undergraduate career should really look like basic science undergraduate research. And those two things combined with relative success in both, will land you in a Good graduate program.

And then just as a follow up to that, then does it go work for a few years like you did, and then PhD or straight to PhD?

I think it really depends on the graduate program that you are applying to. So my graduate program actually views going and getting work experience or research experience after undergraduate very favorably. So most of the students who are in my program have at least a year of research experience outside of college. And I think a lot of graduate programs are that way. And just from a personal perspective, I think that so much growth and so much understanding of what I wanted out of life happened in those years that I would recommend it to anyone.

Great. Second question for you. What is one thing you believe about college that most people don't?

Oh, that's a good question. This may be a little controversial, but I don't think I'm okay with that. I don't think that college is necessarily for everyone.

I love it. I love it. Yeah, I love it.

I think that it, you know, if you, it can be really hurtful actually to your prospects if you spend a lot of money going to a big university, but you're not really, like, you don't really know what you want to do yet. I would completely recommend trying out a community college or some trade work classes or something like that. I just see this trend of everyone having to go to college and I just don't think that it's necessary.

Yeah, I love it. It's this cookie cutter approach that we've somehow adopted and gets people who aren't built for a particular track in deep trouble. And I hate to see it.

It's really frustrating. I think sometimes I teach students too, who I just see in their eyes that they're, you know, this is not what they want to be doing. And that's really unfortunate.

So, Sarah, third question for you. What have you done differently in college and in your career than your peers?

Huh? That's a good question. What have I done differently? My peers in science or my peers? Just in general.

I'll leave it up to you. It can be in college or.

In.

The science community in general.

I think actually a unique thing about my path is I've done a lot of sort of impulse decisions. So I, you know, something just feels really right and I just kind of run really hard at it. And we have this saying in the lab, actually. It's called fail fast. Just give something a try. If it's not for you, then at least, you know, and it's over.

Yeah. Minimize the downside, right?

Absolutely. So I think that I just recognized some things that I was. I was excited about and just went for them. And I find a lot of my peers spend a lot of time sort of, you know, mulling over questions and which I know from reading parts of your book can be a really good thing.

Right. But there's nothing like actually doing it. Right and actually getting in the trenches and trying it for yourself.

Absolutely. And I think college is a great time to sort of figure that out too. You gotta fail fast, run at things, try them out.

Love it.

Yep.

Sarah, if you could recommend something to college students in the form of a tweet, what would that be?

Oh, gosh. I'm not very good at Twitter.

I won't count the characters. So if you go over 140, that's fine.

Find your community. Find a mentor.

I love it. Yeah. Community, again is just so important.

It's so important.

Yeah. My last rapid fire question for you. What is the one pop culture trend you remember most from college?

Oh, gosh. Pop culture trend. I think it's still happening.

What's happening?

But I think, like, neon everything.

I love it. Just bright yellow and orange and pink. Right.

Being part of this snowboard club, it was just like neon everything.

Especially against a white backdrop of snow.

Or those highlighter parties. Yeah.

Only the best things happen at snowboard club.

It was a great time.

I love it. Cool. So, Sarah, this has been really fun. I've really enjoyed it. I hope you have too. Where can people learn more about you, learn more about your work, and learn about anything else you recommend to a high school or college kid wanting to become the next Sarah Lucas.

Well, if you want to know more about the work we do here in the hunter lab at UMN, we have a website. It's hunterlabumn.com so that's just any scientific questions that we address that you're interested in, you can go there. I have a Google Scholar page that covers my publications.

I love it. I'll include that in the show notes too.

Yeah. And resources for students. You know what? I would just recommend reading a lot. Read everything, especially stay updated in current events, especially if it's something you're interested in. I think I'm an example of how that can be really life changing. So, yeah, pick up a newspaper.

I love it. We'll leave it there. Sarah, thanks so much.

Thank you, Kyle.

Hey, everyone, thanks for listening and thanks to Sarah for coming on. Reach out to me on Twitter yane and let me know what you liked about the interview. I'll catch you all next time.

If you want more Hackiversity and achieving more by doing less in college, you can subscribe to the podcast on itunes or grab the book on Amazon. For the show notes and the latest on hackiversity, check out kylewiny.com don't forget to follow Kyle on Twitter at kylewiny and on facebook@facebook.com hackaversity Till next time, Happy hacking.