#005: Dave Schools (27 years) on Embracing Entrepreneurship and Building a 22k+ Blog Following

Welcome to the Hackiversity podcast, where students learn how to achieve more by doing less in college. Learn the hacks from wildly successful recent college graduates as your host, Kyle Whiney explores the colleges, majors and paths that produce the biggest results in college using less effort. It's hacking time. Hello, ladies and gents. This is Kyle Wienie at Hackiversity. I, like many of you out there, have a blog. Others are thinking about starting a blog. Maybe that blog relates to your college major, but then again, maybe it doesn't. But here's the question, should it? Prepare to meet Dave Schools. Dave graduated from Grove city College in 2012 with a degree in entrepreneurship. In less than two years from college graduation, Dave founded Entrepreneurs Handbook and a blog with over 22,000 followers growing at 150 new members a day. Not to mention, Dave is a columnist for Inc.com and recently published his first book, Runaway Millionaire. In this episode, Dave and I discuss a ton of strategies and tactics in light of Dave becoming a world class blogger so quickly. This includes how to exploit a first mover advantage in order to build a readership, how to write email, irresistible blog titles, and how curating can be a quick launching pad for aspiring bloggers. Without further ado, let's dig in. Dave, thank you so much for coming on my show. It's a real honor for sure.

Glad to be here.

So, Dave, you and I are connected through one of my very good friends, Gret, who's also a fellow entrepreneur. And you, good guy, great guy, and you yourself are an entrepreneur. So it's fascinating that we kind of have two stellar recent college graduates sounding off about their projects. All things entrepreneurial. Super excited to add you to the Hackiversity entrepreneur club. So this is good stuff.

I'm excited.

So let's kick things off by hopping into the things that you're currently involved in, which, I mean, boy, the resume is long, the list of activities is long. So Dave, when someone asks you what do you do? How do you respond to that question?

Yeah, that's a great question. Ever since quitting my first job, that's what I've been trying to figure out, how to respond. One thing you can say, you're an entrepreneur, but that doesn't sound good, at least to me. I don't like it when someone says, when I ask, what are you doing? Oh, I'm an entrepreneur. No, that's kind of like something that comes with whatever you're, you know, like what you've accomplished. I don't know, I just. It's an Overused term that I, that I get sick of. So how I introduce myself, I say I'm a writer. That's my, my skill, my trade, what I do to create. And I believe everybody's born to create in some way, shape or form. But yeah, I'll say I'm an ink columnist. I'm an author, app creator, blogger, interview founders. Yeah. So it's, you know, true to all types of salespeople, which if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be part salesperson. You customize your introduction to whom you're speaking with, if you know what I mean. If you know what I mean.

Yeah, absolutely. And you just rattled off a ton of things that I want to get into much, you know, at a much deeper level here in a bit. So before we tackle all these things on your resume, Dave, first I just want to ask you, how old are you?

I just turned 27 last week.

Okay, so just turned 27. So that puts you what, five years out from graduation?

Yep, yep.

Awesome. Really incredible. All of these things you've accomplished in five years. So let's get to it. So, Dave, one of the things that I know you're working on and I, and I know this because I'm part of it and I love it, is what's called Entrepreneur's Handbook, which is a medium publication for entrepreneurs, at least how I see it. Looking for actionable advice brought to you by real people with real business experience. It kind of reminds me kind of what I'm doing with Hackiversity, that is kind of interviewing people. Recent college graduates who've been there, done that, and now are looking to advise incoming or current college students. So in your words though, how do you describe Entrepreneurs Handbook?

Entrepreneur's Handbook is a medium publication. You got that part right. That covers design, technology, entrepreneurship, and startups. So I interview founders like you said. I mean, you pretty much got it right, but telling a wide gamut of types of stories, whether it's a lawn mowing, you know, landscaping business or a landing page developer who started a business that makes 4,000amonth on the side, or it's a multi million dollar real estate developer or how to invest, or it's very, very diverse in the topics that it covers, which is, you know, that plays to. That's what I'm passionate about. And that's why I love entrepreneurship, because you can apply it to any industry. That's Entrepreneur's Handbook. I post two or three times a week. I'm starting to edit writers. I have a roster of writers that contribute That's Entrepreneur's handbook. It has 22.6 thousand followers and it's growing by 150 roughly a day right now, which is pretty neat.

Wow, that's incredible. And that kind of growth was from. Is it two years ago that you found an Entrepreneur's Handbook?

Three.

Three. Okay. Wow. I mean, really incredible that it's experienced that kind of growth. Why do you think that growth is, Dave? What has caused this thing to just take off like a rocket ship?

Yeah. Great. I've been asked that before and have puzzled over it myself. There's no formula, that's for sure. I'd say kind of a combination of things. One, talking on Medium, it being a new platform, readers are attracted to transparency, vulnerability, like an anti corporate sort of tone. And that's how I try and write. I'd say also getting started early on a new platform is a great way to grow quickly. So when someone signs up for Medium, and Medium is still a startup, as we know, I'm a suggested writer in entrepreneurship, startups, ideas and productivity. So if anyone's interested in those topics, they see my profile kind of right there. Same with the publication, when someone signs up. So that, I mean, being kind of entrenched from the get go. I did have an interaction kind of funny with Ev Williams over Medium has grown and changed over the years. And Ev Williams founded it.

Also co founded Twitter.

That's right. Yeah. He's kind of my idol in a way, and how he thinks and how he runs his businesses. But we basically had a little blogging spar where he posted about the direction Medium was taking, which was to make it more of a social network. And I was like, no, don't do that. Like keep writing kind of sacred and keep it a publishing platform where people hesitate before they hit publish because they want what they're putting out there to be as best as it possibly can be. And then he responded directly and tore apart my argument, like line by line, which. And he of course turned out to be fully correct. And it was a great idea what he, what he did. But I mean, so having that touch with like a larger account on a new platform, I think can also add juice to growing.

So there's a real first mover advantage when it comes to blogging. Right. When it comes to the Medium or the website used. Dave, is there a first mover advantage when it comes to the actual content? Because entrepreneurship three years ago wasn't all that new. Facebook people think about the founding of Facebook being the real starting point to entrepreneurship. And boy, that occurred back in the middle to early 2000s. So entrepreneurship and kind of the big cultural force that it is, has been around for a while. So how do you explain why the subject of entrepreneurship has really taken off for you?

Yeah, I'd say it's the age we're living in, the Internet connected age we're living in, where you can apply IoT to anything.

Can you explain what that is?

IoT, Internet of Things, where you basically, that stands. That's what it stands for, where you connect digital analytics to anything. Like, it could be your door, it could be your car, your, you know, your tv, where you can start to track how, like the data with how often you open your door and how often you touch the handle. You know, like, things like that, and then being able to control it from the Internet. So that that technology and then the ubiquity of information, the accessibility to get something like a presence online started, is contributing to, I think, this movement where we're seeing a lot of digital and technology driven entrepreneurship and Medium being a new platform. That's where everyone is. And then, so I remember distinctly there was a time on Medium where it was like, if you look at the tags when you tagged post, if you look at entrepreneurship and startup, those are like dramatically higher than everything else. And so I think there's a time where Medium, the staff and curators kind of had to back down off that tag because it was starting. Medium was becoming known strictly as entrepreneurship and startup platform. And that was great for me, but, you know, that they had to balance it out with like politics, health, life lessons, you know, things that aren't directly related to those topics.

So the things that you mentioned, Dave, IOT Internet of Things, in my book, I call those things megatrends just because the force of them is so significant. It affects so many people. So to kind of summarize, what you're talking about is if you want to become a successful blogger, it really helps to be the first mover into a particular medium or platform. And then secondly, to be at the center of a megatrend, something that affects a lot of people. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say that's accurate. And then besides, you know, the kind of meeting the expectation of being, you know, helpful, insightful, generate, you can't just get away with not. Not being helpful to your readers. So.

Right. So that speaks about the content. So, Dave, can you tell the listeners out there, what are some tips for generating really great content, content that users.

Find really valuable, say, what no one else is saying and that's kind of like a really. That's a challenge because everything's been said before on the Internet and plus with history. So basically taking disparate schools of thought and, and knitting it together and coming up with your own conclusion. If you can do that, that'll stand out. Also, I'm an Ink columnist. I write twice a month for inc.com and they have learned some things based on how they run their operation. And they say that they live and die by the fact that headlines, it's all about the headline and making that because that's the doorway into the blog post. So. So clickbait matters pretty much. Yeah, but it has to be accurate. Clickbait. You know, I'm saying like, because if that's the worst thing is to do is to write a title that's clickbait and then you click into it and it's. The content doesn't line up with what the headline claimed it would. So you got to come through for the reader in that way.

So Dave, is long form content better or short form content better?

Yeah, it depends on the platform, but I'd say for the most part with every. With more people reading from mobile, short form is better with links and skimmability. So if you want to, if you're like attacking a huge thought in your blog post, link out to other pieces where you've broken down this thought. Because if you're writing for your platform, then you've probably covered similar topics before. So link out and then kind of divide it up. It's doing the long form thing where it's like straight up walls of text that takes. That's super taxing on a reader and so breaking it up with subheadings. Bold, but don't go crazy. Like be really selective with bold and italics and mixing it up so it makes it easier to find content. I think that linking out skimmability and then also drawing from other authorities, I think that that's a good way to build trust and rapport with new readers. Like if people don't know you, if you quote from these names that they recognize, then they're going to associate you and kind of trust that what you're saying is backed by proven experiences that aren't just you touting your not too extensive experience.

Right. So you need to generate credibility by linking to external sources, but can also increase the amount of your traffic by linking your post to other posts that you've generated previously. The best of both worlds. Cool.

The other thing, really quick. One tip that's really hot with Inc Right now is generate long titles like long long headlines and where you put names of startups and names of founders that are super recognizable like Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, or you know, Facebook, Twitter, and then extrapolate on lessons from those companies. For example, the one post that I wrote, it was number seven on Inc. In March of this year.

All across Inc, you scored at the number seven level.

Yeah, it was a cool shout out. The one of the editors there said that with 80 posts a day, it's like pretty crazy to get a top post of the month. But that one, the title of that one was exactly how much sleep Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Elon Musk and other great leaders get each night. And the subtitle was how the Elite Count Sheep.

That's hilarious. I love it. So that's a pretty long title, but includes some very recognizable figures.

Yeah, people will read that because they recognize the name.

Yeah, I love it. That's really brilliant. Dave, when people are contemplating starting their own blog, do you suggest that they create their own website or do you suggest that they try to navigate the Internet and find the next up and coming Medium?

Both, Definitely. Definitely both. See, I've kind of, I've DaveSchools.com and there's like a blog portion to that, but I haven't, I haven't been too active on it because my presence, I guess is pretty grounded in Medium. But I've always thought everyone says use others plat other others platforms to get the traffic to your platform, which you control and build an email list and then once you get, you know, 100,000 emails, you can live off that.

So the idea is to always bring people back to your own website. Is that kind of the end game in blogging?

I'd say for the most part, little different for me because Medium is my end game. But yeah, I'd say for the most part to have ownership is control. And if you want control, you need to have it on your own platform. So that would probably be what I'd recommend to do.

Dave, one last question about blogging. When it comes to content, is more content more or is less content more? In other words, should students blast out content as much as possible?

Yeah. One of the leaders, I forget who said it, said that when it comes to blogging, volume wins, which I'd say is pretty true. Another person, I forget I should remember these names, but the quote was that you're only as good as the last blog post you published. So even if you do have like an amazing blog post go off, give it a month and it's gone. You know, it doesn't matter anymore, however. But one thing, if you don't want to be like a content farm and just churn out, I would strongly not recommend just writing for the sake of getting it out there. You want everything that you put out there to be great, and that's why it takes so much work and dedication, why it's not for everyone, because they can't make the time commitment or brain commitment to stick to it. And really quick. If you're not one to write, curate. That's what I've seen other people do if they don't want to write. Take what's already out there and then build a blog. Maybe not a blog site, but a platform where you're pulling from the best, giving everyone credit, but at least you control that platform. And then you can do ads and sponsors and all that sort of thing.

So in other words, if you want to become an authority on entrepreneurship, assume I do. Then I can just go to DaveSchools.com and grab some content that you produced and just paste it on my site, link to you, and build a following and a content library from that.

Not quite. You could do it that way, but you could get in trouble or at least have somebody get angry at you for just doing that. Without. I'd always ask for permission, and that's happened to me before, and I most of the time always say yes. I just kind of check out their platform, who they are, what they're doing, and if it's, you know, nothing alarming, I'll let them have what I've written, like prsuit.com whatever I write on Medium, I think that they took 15 articles from from there and republished it on their site, giving credit to where it was originally published. Also, if anyone has questions about Medium, a lot of times they ask. If I write on my own blog, on my own website, and then copy and paste on Medium, doesn't that duplicate content? And then Google punishes that. From an SEO perspective, Medium has a cool import tool where you copy the link of your blog post and then it imports into Medium and keeps the canonical URL in line. So that shows it tells Google, hey, the personal blog is where it was originally published. This is not duplicate content. This is just like a share, just like when you share to Facebook. That's what this is. So Medium has that functionality built in. And that's why I would say you'd want to have a personal blog, but also Have a medium blog as well. There's no harm in that.

Yeah. That way you can get exposure on two fronts but not be penalized by doing so. Yeah, yeah.

Cool.

Well, Dave, I know that you're also involved in another project. It's called Brew Projects. Talk to me about Brew Projects.

Yes, Brew Projects is the private exclusive membership of entrepreneurs handbook. And it's a digital community that anyone can join who wants to turn an idea into an income stream. And it's kind of more for people who have full time jobs, kind of like a 20something to a 30, 40something, who has maybe a corporate job they don't love but has a passion like coding, carpentry, video editing, etc. It can be anything. And it's how do you take that idea, how do you take that side project and make money from it? Because the biggest problem that I've seen is two parted. It's one where folks don't believe in themselves enough to make money from their side project or they don't know how to make money from their side project. So Brew Projects is a community where people can get feedback, get accountability, get clarity on next steps and how to complete that journey. And then the last thing I'll say is that it's not a course, it's not a class, it's a community because you can find these courses and classes about how to do, how to make money off of blog, et cetera. But I believe that there's a lot of cruft, a lot of unnecessary content in those courses that don't directly apply to that person's field or their industry or their passion. So a community allows a person to interact and get feedback directly relevant to what they're working on. So that's brew projects, it's $8 a month.

Cool. So in pitching Brew Projects, you know, there's a lot of communities out there that, you know, people could perhaps plug into when they're thinking about their own startup or you know, making money as a side hustle. So when you go to plug Brew Projects, Dave, what is the one thing you lead with that says, you know what, we are different for this reason?

Yeah, I'd say we're different from other startup side project communities. One in that it's intimate and it's networking, focused, where you're really building relationships with people, where with the other communities you'll see that they're free, there's thousands of people and they get spammy and you get lost and nobody's actually building relationships, they're just, you know, Chatting inconsequently. Where Brew Projects, it's like we check in when we're working on our project. We have goals for the week, we have business brewers mastermind calls. That's probably one of the biggest differentiators where we like, there'll be four people, two members, two mentors. And you get on a 45 minute call and the members check in like, hey, what? What are you working on? What challenges do you have right now? And then they leave with concrete next steps to take. So those business brewers calls are, you know, that's pretty different. I mean, having it be $8 a month keeps out the kind of low quality lurkers, you could say. So Brew Projects, it's pretty people, people are pretty active and passionate about what they're doing, right?

So Brew Projects is all about providing quality one on one mentoring.

Yeah. The goal and kind of what's stated on the landing page that you'll see is the goal is that everyone, the belief of Brew Projects is that everybody should be making at least $500 a month on the side. Just in the way that the Internet works and all the opportunity that's out there, you can make $500 a month on the side, easy.

And how quickly do you pitch your users to kind of be able to ramp up to that?

Well, interesting. I initially had 12 months, but that seemed, and I had based that off of a similar publication on Medium. But this week, Thursday, I'm launching the 90 day revenue challenge, open to anyone. So not just Brew Projects members, anyone with, you know, Entrepreneurs Handbook or whoever can take the 90 day revenue challenge. Where it's taking the challenge is to take a business idea that's in your head and make cold hard cash from it in 90 days. And so anyone can do it. But then, of course, Brew Projects, it's like, hey, while you're doing this, join a community that can help you get through it. So that's kind of why I'm launching 90 Day, the revenue challenge.

I love it. So, Dave, to put a bow on Brew Projects and to tie it into just becoming a master blogger, it seems to me that one of the things that just makes you stand out in the market as the founder of Brew Projects, is the fact that you do offer this quality one on one mentoring. And I know that these mentors are really great people. They have deep subject matter knowledge and that allows you to stand out in the market and capitalize on the 22,000 plus followers you have on Medium. So great work with that. I love everything that's going on. And I know that listeners can learn a lot from this about establishing their own niche, their own blog, and then just really running with it and building their own community. So love it.

Sure.

Dave, one last thing before we transition to your college career. I want to touch on this so I know, at least I understand that you're a model. Talk to me about that.

Okay. This was in a past life, but yeah, I was, I was a male model in New York City at the top three agencies called Click for five years since. What was it? It was like eighth grade to halfway through college. I modeled for brands like Hollister, Abercrombie Kids, Macy's, Walmart, Sears, Burlington Coat Factory, Details magazine. I was on TV with a Target commercial. I was in Times Square with Aeropostel, like live digital screen where I did like the fake step down sort of motion on like their flagship store in Times Square.

So Dave, what you're basically saying is not only are you an entrepreneur, but you're a darn good looking entrepreneur.

I was. I don't know about now.

Fair enough.

That's not me anymore.

Fair enough. Past life, right?

Yeah.

Cool.

The one takeaway from that I can share is that it teaches you sales. An entrepreneur is always pitching ideas. So being a model, I walk into a go see a casting audition which would last at most four minutes. And so I had that much time to kind of sell myself. Yeah, it was just my looks, but they hire based on personality a lot of the times, especially when it's with live camera. Like Target always casts with live camera. They put on music and you have to dance or you know, like they'll ask you to yell one word really loud. And I remember being outside the room one time and I heard one, one other guy yell like rock lobster really loud. Kind of bizarre. But anyways, so modeling kind of told like taught me how to sell myself quickly, like make a good first impression, which is key to being an entrepreneur.

I love it. Kid of being a great blogger too.

Yeah.

So let's transition to your college days. So you graduated from Grove City with a degree in entrepreneurship in 2012. So I had on here earlier Greg Glyier, who also graduated from Grove City in 2012. So it seems like Grove City is producing some really great talent in its entrepreneurship program. So shout out to Grove City.

Yeah, Great school. I loved it. I recommend it to everyone. My two, I have three brothers and the two after me went to Grove City and one's there now.

What was it like to attend Grove City?

It was an incubator for purpose and mission and community. My best friends are all from Grove City. Still, we keep in touch and I found my wife there. The classes are. They teach you, like, get smart or fail, basically. So it taught me discipline in that sense. Yeah. The name. Yeah, it carries. When people know Grove City and you say that you're from Grove City, it means something to them.

Yeah. Well, so that's, you know, that's an interesting insight, Dave, because I know that Grove City is a very small school and I want to talk more about that in a second here, but did you find in any way that the smallness of Grove City inhibited its reputation from going beyond its location in central, or I guess it's western Pennsylvania.

Yeah, I don't really have a frame of reference because I. I haven't gone to a large state school or anything like that. So as far as the number, like, its enrollment, did it prevent it from having other locations? There was always the joke to have a satellite campus in Florida so we would avoid the north of Pittsburgh. Precipitation, like awful winters. I moved to Tennessee right after graduating and getting married just for the sake of being warm for a period of time.

You wanted to escape the lake effect.

Exactly.

Right, right. Cool. So, Dave, speaking about Grove City smallness, what was the community and the social aspect like there on campus?

I'd say we did a lot of different things. And, you know, like, there are a lot of dances. Everyone's super driven and wants to do something there. So there was always an event to go to. Did a lot of sports. Yeah. And, I mean, studies people would rarely. Some people who took studies really seriously wouldn't get out much. I was on the other. Other side of things where I didn't take my studies super seriously until it was too late. I still graduated with a 3.3.0, which I'm proud of. But I did other things like student government and Crimson white society and homecoming committee, and I was president of my housing group. And those sorts of things that grew me in other ways that academics, I think, couldn't, which I look back on and I'm very thankful for.

And when you started applying for jobs, Dave, did employers ever question why you only had a 3.0?

Did.

Did they expect something more?

Not at all.

Did they ever have a conversation about your GPA to any length at all?

No. I wonder. I don't know if you're going to ask why, but I think it's because maybe my field, like being in entrepreneurship, like creativity or leadership or whatever trait that an employer might value isn't really tied to, like, academic knowledge, where if someone was, I don't know, like, in English or literature or maybe engineering, some of these more technical fields, that's where. Yeah, I'd say GPA might be more relevant, but for entrepreneurship. Yeah. No, it's more about what you. What you did, what you created, than the grades you got.

So when you had conversations with employers during interviews or whatnot, what was your pitch to them? Did you talk about the projects that you've done during school?

Yeah, that was huge. For my first. First job at a school, it was all about what I did with events. My first job out of college was an administrative and marketing coordinator for Chamber of Commerce, specifically the Office of Small Business Development and Entrepreneurship. And I took over for a lady who went on maternity leave. And one of the main responsibilities of that was putting on an awards ceremony in December for small businesses where you'd win different categories and having that experience being in sga. I was Senator of Social affairs freshman year, and then I was president of the sophomore class. Doing those two things, like, the people have different views of sga, but for me, when I look back on it, it's all about events, like doing things for students, like dances. And so I reinvented the classic Crimson Ball. I turned it into Club Crimson. Created a new brand, a new feel for the event, and, you know, like that.

Did you guys just have rave parties at Club Crimson?

There was lasers, there's fog, there's four projectors. And probably the best moment from that night was when I'm on a boat came on, and the location of the dance was in a completely unprecedented place. And it was in one of the more academic buildings. And I don't know, it was a lot of fun. I remember there being like a waiting line, and we had a bouncer at the door just to keep the numbers down.

That sounds legit. It sounds also very ravey, which doesn't strike me as what Grove City is all about, which I find even more intriguing. So precisely, again, it's all about standing out in the crowd. Right. So that's exactly what you were doing.

Yeah. So that helped with getting my first. First job.

And were employers impressed that you were the president of sga, which is Student Government Association, Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know. There's a difference between, like, the real world, quote unquote, and this school world. So I don't know if I'd say impressed, but, you know, it's. They would note it or, you know.

It doesn't mean much more Than your gpa?

Yeah. Yeah. It's like if I had a GPA but not much else on my college resume, it'd be like, what the heck were you doing? So it's. It's kind of like, choose one or the other and bolster it.

Dave, when you were in school, did you start any kind of side hustles, any kind of projects that were considered entrepreneurial in the classic sense?

Interesting. I haven't thought about that. But reflecting. I hated writing, absolutely hated it in college. And that's like what I absolutely love right now. And so that change is interesting. Writing and creating is. You know, if I could write right now, I love it so much because I have control of what I write, and I can write in a way that results not in a grade, but maybe for, you know, financial benefit or I'm helping people with it. Where I found. With academic papers, it was just about nailing a formula. And that wasn't creative to me, that wasn't fulfilling, and I wasn't good at it. So I guess that. So did I start any entrepreneurial side projects? I put in a. I worked with my housing group and the college to put in horseshoe pits. I have a passion for playing horseshoes. And so we installed the first. Like, I drew the diagrams and worked with the construction, like the grounds manager, and we had them installed. So I changed the campus in a permanent way.

And what year was that when you did these things?

I think that was 2011 or 12.

So you were a junior or a senior at that point, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, Dave, a lot of entrepreneurs think that you need some kind of tech or engineering background. Do you think that's true?

No. No, you don't, because I'm not an engineer by any means. I did try and learn Swift, which is the iOS mobile programming language, and quickly stopped because I believe that you should play to your strengths and not try and improve your weaknesses, because where you're weak, you can partner and hire.

You must have been reading hackiversity. Absolutely. You got to play to your strengths. Yeah, that's right.

Nice. Yeah. But no, you don't need to have the technical skill to be a founder. Not by any means. But in order to find a technical co founder, if you want to be in tech, you have to bring something to the table, namely hustle a platform or an audience or a creative way to sell and tell the story. Because if you don't have any of that and you approach a coder and say, let's do this, the code will be like, get the heck out of here. I don't want to do all this work and then have you just sit on your haunches watching and waiting. No. So. But not all. Not all entrepreneurship is in requires tech and engineering. You can be a property manager and start a company that way. I mean, it always helps because the Internet makes things easier. So the more you know how to use it, the easier it will be in whatever field you're in, I believe.

Dave, would you say there's a specific college track that got you to where you are today?

College track. Can I ask you what you mean by track?

Yeah. So are there certain classes that got you to where you are today? Is there a certain major, that being for you, entrepreneurship that got you to where you are today? Is there a certain college for you, Grove City, that got you to where you are today? What I'm really trying to get at is if someone's out there and they want to be the next day of schools, do they just repeat step by step what you've done, or is there some other way, some other avenue that they can get to where you are right now?

Interesting. The nature of being an entrepreneur is being different. So when I hear someone being just like me, that. That doesn't sound good to me. But I'd say, find something you're good at. You have to have a skill in some way, shape, or form, and college is the time to do that. That's why an engineer, you know, learns how to code. That's such a hard thing to do. They focus on it for four years. They come out and they're offered $85,000 starting salary, or they know how to build, you know, a software startup where someone who majors in communications, you know, if they don't have any, like, skills or platform or drive, it's like, what do I do? Like, how do I. I don't know. So for me, I'd say, yeah, that's a good question. I don't know if there's a specific. I guess that's one thing I could say is you choose to be a specialist or a generalist in college, like an engineer. For, like, we keep going back to that. That's a specialist. Someone who's really, really good at one thing where a generalist is okay or, like, pretty good at a number of things. That's more how I turned out to be. Like, I can do graphic design, I can write, I can build a simple website. I can make a pitch. I can put together a deck. So that versatility, I guess, might be something to shoot for if they want to follow in my footsteps.

So basically your skill then. You said that entrepreneurs need a skill. Your skill is your versatility.

Yeah, you could say that. I would say writing is kind of like a quote unquote hard skill that I can prove because I have a book, you know, I have a blog and kind of a resume at this point. But there needs to be as much as you can have a specialty, do it. Like that is super important, like a way to sell yourself, like, hey, I'm really good at this one thing.

And does that one thing need to be your major?

That would be nice. That would be ideal. That what you're studying and focusing on is actually what you're passionate about and what you are really good at.

Yeah. And I guess the reason why I ask you in particular, Dave, is because when I think of an entrepreneur, which is your major, I don't necessarily think great writer, I think Mark Zuckerberg, I think Elon Musk. But when I look at entrepreneurship as a major, I don't think blogger with over 22,000 followers. So can you talk about maybe either pitching or selling yourself and your major in a light that emphasizes your skill or how students should go about picking a major that is consistent with that skill that they want?

Yeah, I'd say really quick going back to that generalist versus specialist. There's majors that prepare you to be a generalist and that generalists are really good at dealing with people because people aren't, you know, it's not black and white, chop, chop boxes that you check when you're working with people. It's relational. And so a major that prepares you to be comfortable, confident and allows you to talk with people, that's a skill in itself that maybe some specialists don't have. Fields like that tend to be marketing, sales, but an entrepreneur absolutely needs to have those skills in order. Like you mentioned the big dogs. I mean they have huge networks, they're able to get along with anyone, learn from anyone, and be able to rope in people, investors, partners. Getting along with people might be one of the best skills for an entrepreneur to have.

And can you teach that?

Yeah, that's a great question. What? Yeah, I'd say so.

The how can students learn that skill.

Quickly being thrown in, just kind of like the Nike just do it. I remember classes to contrast two types of classes. The ones that were more textbook driven versus one that were more experiential driven. I got more out of the experiential classes where we would go visit a business and Interview the owner and he'd, you know, talk and share his story. Or, or ones where we actually helped solopreneurs and small businesses with technology. The hands on parts where we were interfacing with real world businesses did way more for me than anything I learned out of a book. But you need both.

Yeah. So let me just get this straight to kind of boil it all down. If you want to be a great entrepreneur, you need to be great with interpersonal skills. And if you want to be great with interpersonal skills and learn these things quickly at college, the best way to do that is just to get thrown in the fire, start chatting with people, start getting outside of your comfort zone and learn these things the hard way, the real way.

Yeah. Let me, I'd say you're dead on. And let me add two other concrete examples of things that changed my life when I was in school academically. One was a public speaking class. Rocked my world like I did. I did terribly in the class, but I learned so much.

So you learned a lot even though you didn't on paper do well?

Yeah, totally.

And those dividends are still, you're still enjoying those dividends throughout your career.

Yeah. For example, like how to do an impromptu speech, one that's three minutes long. I remember being scared out of my mind like where? Be like, ready, David? And here's your topic. Leave the room and we're gonna call on you in five minutes. And you have to give a three minute speech in front of. And I remember being terrified and rambling on and just like an awful, awful, I told some dumb story. But what I remember from that and to this day is prep P, R, E P. That's the key to an impromptu speech when you're put on the spot. Say your point, give a reason, give an example, repeat your point, and it's nice. Like everyone loves that. And that's how you do it. I learned that from that class, from that terrible but educational experience.

I like that. And even though you didn't get that great of a grade, you're still benefiting from that years later. And I think just students so often get caught up in their letter grade that they kind of miss the long term benefit that a particular experience provides. And I just love this example that despite the letter grade, there's still so much to be learned.

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing too, in that class, a dude came in. When I said dude, a reporter for a newspaper came in and did a live interview of one of the students. And the thing that stuck with me most from that and it wasn't really attached to a letter grade whatsoever, was like, how this guy had an amazing capability to ask the student questions and, like, dug into his family life. And the reporter would take asides and address the class with, like, where he was at, what he was doing in the interview. And he would say, like, and now I'm going to jump into the parents, because I believe everyone, you know, has things in common with their parents. We can learn a lot from about someone from their parents. I don't know. That sticks with me. And I remember that whenever I'm interviewing people.

Yeah, it's kind of this empathetic skill that people bring. They can relate to the other person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. So public speaking, very important for entrepreneurs. Writing, very important for entrepreneurs as you demonstrate so the softer skills. But in addition to that, you actually need to bring some sort of skill to the table, whether it's more of a generalist like you, or more of a technical skill like an engineer or something like that.

Yeah, the Steve Jobs is Mark Zuckerberg's, Jack Dorsey's. Like, these big shots that are uber successful are both. They're hybrids. It's really rare when you have someone who's both technical but amazingly communicative and interpersonal. That's like the golden blend that I think is rare.

Yeah, yeah, it is. I love it. I love it. So, Dave, let's transition to what I like to call the rapid fire section of the podcast, which is where I offer up some questions, quick hitting questions, but that by no means. Means that your answer has to be quick hitting. So let's dig in.

Let's do it.

How do you define success?

Success, the first thing that comes to mind is success is a quote that a mentor told me, the guy that got me into modeling, actually, he said success is when preparedness meets opportunity, which basically. And like, for example, the modeling, you need an opportunity, as in an agency is open to a meeting with you, but then the preparedness side is, you know, how to take a picture. You know, you have a portfolio prepared and shot for them to go through. Like, you've been waiting for this opportunity. So when you have preparedness and opportunity to meet, that's when success happens. With your question, it might have been more like, okay, once you know everything's going, like, what is it? What is success when everything's going right? Or that is a journey. I think that's a journey that you could. Your definition of success constantly evolves in life, so you'll get a different answer from me in six months.

I love it. Well, I'll have to have you back on the show in six months, and we'll reconnect about what that definition is.

Sounds good.

Dave, what about failure do you fear the most?

Hmm. That one thing I like to say, teachers teach, entrepreneurs fail. It's kind of what you do. You just get used to it every day. Even though, of course, that's an extreme. You don't fail every day just as teachers teach. But that's kind of like what you're good at. You have to be good at trying something, throwing it out there, posting all over your social media so that the world knows. And then when they. When the world circles back with you, you know, six months later, like, oh, what happened to that project? And you say, I didn't go anywhere. You know, it failed. No, like, that's. You have to be very comfortable doing that. But failure equals failure plus zero is kind of like an equation I think of where if you don't learn anything from your failure, then it truly is a failure. But if you learned a skill, built a connection, wrote, you know, like, you have content now under your belt, you know how to do something, like, that's investing in yourself, and that's invaluable. I love it.

I always say fail forward, which is basically meaning the exact same thing that you just said. Learn from your failures. Don't be afraid to fail, but do so in a way that grows. You personally love it.

Yeah.

Cool. Dave, what is one thing you believe about college that most people don't?

Huh? You can find your wife there. That might be just with Grove City. If you can use college to hone who you want to be, the sooner the better. Good. Good for you. I know. For me it can. You know, that's also a journey. I'm still trying to figure out and answer that question, which I think is just someone. That's what you. That's what you do in your. Your late teens, early 20s. And a quote comes to mind. James Altucher. He went through each decade of life, like, your teens, your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s. He's older. And a guy that I look up to as far as being a writer and entrepreneur. He said, in your 20s, it's all about doing everything. Like, that's when you have time and energy, creativity, passion, like, do a whole bunch of different things. And then once you strike upon something that sticks and you can see yourself making a living from it, boom, you got it. Like, proceed where when you're at 30, 40 you start to have a family, time gets constricted. The cost when you fail is a little less stomachable. So 20s is all about doing everything. What was your question again?

I said, what is the one thing about college that you believe that most people don't?

Yeah. So I guess do as much as you can because it's an experimention time, experimentation time.

Yeah. Dustin Hoffman, I believe it was said that your 20s, the question mark, decade, which basically is exactly what you were saying, that you don't really know what your twenties brings, but the idea is to just check it out, test, test, test, and once you, you know, get on something that you, you really like, you know, attach to it and just run with it. Dave, what is one thing you, you wish your sophomore self in high school knew?

Don't care about social, like being popular, that there's to a guy I look up to that I just met out here in Phoenix, who founded youngentrepreneur.com, which was acquired by entrepreneur.com. he said in high school, he and his brother, instead of being known as the popular kids, they were known as like the profitable kids where they so like, created businesses and would sell, you know, magic kits and shirts and bags, custom car stereo kits to all the, like, the popular kids who had the nice cars, got their driver's licenses. So I guess that would be more my case, maybe be more practical minded and less socially minded.

Yeah, I love that. I think very often we just kind of get wrapped up in college and the social scene and social pressures and, you know, even two years out, those things don't even matter anymore. And it's easy to kind of get sucked into that world, though, when you're in the ecosystem.

Yeah. Especially high school. I'm friends with one person from high school currently. Yeah.

I love it. Dave, what have you done differently in college than other students?

I used my modeling pictures to get elected sophomore class president and didn't tell anyone.

So they were all brushed up and just highly refined. And people were super impressed that you.

Didn'T have any pimples, I would just say, my mom has a really nice camera. That's what I said.

I love it. Hey, play to your strengths, right?

Yeah.

Dave, if you could recommend something to a college student in the form of a tweet, what would it be?

Interesting. Once you get to know yourself, get to know others, spend most of your time getting to know others.

I love it. It's all about the empathy.

Yeah. It's helpful to know yourself, but it's kind of A dead end at some point. It's like a. An eternal downward spiral where light and like I get energy. Maybe I'm just an extrovert, but I get energy from other people. That's what inspires me. Looking inward doesn't inspire me. So that would be my advice.

Cool. Last question. What is the one pop culture trend you remember most from college?

Bubble Spinner. I don't know if you remember that game, but that was everywhere. Also Age of Empires. I would play with my buddy in class secretly. That was also fun. Yeah, I said bubble spinner. Different games like that.

Oh, wait, so Bubble Spinners is a game. It's not one of those pinwheels that goes around and spits out bubbles?

Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Bubble Spinners is an arcade game.

Interesting. I must have missed the pop culture trend of bubble spinners. I never heard of it.

Yeah, I mean Grove City is also a bubble. So not knowing what bubble spinners. It might have just been a Grove City thing. I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, Dave, this has been really fun. Where can people learn more about you and particularly those wanting to become the next Dave? Schools.

One thing I do want to mention is I did just publish a book and it's on Amazon and the name is Runaway Millionaire.

Cool. I'll link to that in the show notes. Runaway Millionaire.

Yeah. Beautiful. It's fiction. So it's a complete departure from entrepreneurship and business related things though there is wealth and fraud and betrayal and like tens of millions of dollars.

Why don't you give us a two sentence shout out as to what it's about?

It's about a guy who betrays his father, steals his money and identity, runs away to a big city in search of success and finds love. Finds a venture capital firm, becomes famous, lives the double life and then everything crashes and he hits multiple levels of rock bottom. When he thinks he hits rock bottom, it gets 10 times worse. And then his father comes after him and they have a reconciling conversation. Which is the ultimate reason why I wrote the book was to see what they would say to each other. So that's the pit.

I love it. Cool. So where else can people find you?

I'm on Twitteraveschools. There's an extra oh in my last name. So it looks like schools. I'm on Medium Dave Schools Entrepreneurs Handbook. My email dave@businessbrewers.com if anyone wants to shout out to talk to me directly. Facebook. I'm kind of on it. All cool.

Easy to find. I like it. Awesome. Dave. Well, thanks for coming on and we'll see you next time.

Thank you Kyle. It was great.

If you want more Hackiversity and achieving more by doing less in college, you can subscribe to the podcast on itunes or grab the book on Amazon. For the show notes and the latest on hackiversity, check out kylewiny.com don't forget to follow Kyle on Twitter at kylewinie and on facebook@facebook.com hackaversity Till next time, Happy hacking.