Episode 104: Relationships Matter More Than You Think with Robert Wagner

Welcome to this episode of the Million Dollar Mastermind. I'm Larry Weidell, and let's get started. I am back with RJ Robert Wagner here in Aspen, Colorado, and we're talking about his career and lessons from how many years has it been, RJ?

You know, Larry, I just celebrated my 90th birthday.

Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. And you're still working?

I'm still working. So it would be, you know, a little over 70 years.

70 years. And how do you feel at 90?

I feel absolutely fantastic. I feel very good at night. And I also, I feel so blessed. And I just feel I've been given such a wonderful life and I'm so grateful for it. I live truly in gratitude. As I told you.

Let's talk about relationships. One thing that you have a tremendous. Since you're in a business that you love and enjoy being in there you got a tremendous appreciation for, for the other people that have been successful in that business. Talk about relationships and what you've, you know, some of the real powerful lessons you learned from people who were already successful. And maybe you're, you're, you know, still friends with today.

You know, Larry, I was thinking about. I was thinking about that the other day. I mean, I think about it actually all the time, but it came really very apparent to me. I was honored at the Lone Pine Film Festival up in Northern California, you know, where they made so many great movies, great westerns. And it was a wonderful place and still is great people. And they have this film festival. And at the film festival, they ran a picture that I was in with Spencer Tracy called Broken Lance. And I hadn't seen it for a long time. You know, we were in a very nice theater. I was very close to the, close to the screen. You know, I could see we had wonderful seats. And, you know, I was thinking as it was running. And I've seen it many, many times, and it's my favorite movie, really, or one of them. And I was thinking that what that picture did for me because I was able to meet Spencer Tracy, who took a very. He liked me very much, and he thought that I had possibilities to go onward with my career. And he cast me. He asked me to be in the next picture with him called the Mountain of which he gave me costar billing above the title. And it took me out of the, out of the whole, you know, being just another young actor in Hollywood. He gave me, he gave me my break. I went to Europe with him, the first time I'd ever been in Europe. And we made the picture in France and at Paramount. And I met some wonderful people during that time. But, you know, at the time, Larry, when I was in the film, I didn't realize that this picture was going to do that much for me, you know, that I was going to. That this was going to be such a stepping stone again, you know, an opportunity for me to go on and be taken out of just being another good looking guy in Hollywood and doing war movies. You know, this was a real, real, real big break for me and I was forever grateful to him. And he was just such a wonderful man. I was a pallbearer at his funeral and I just admired him so much. And you know, it was, it opened up a lot for me. It opened up so much for me, I can't tell you.

And, you know, that's one thing that I try and get people to think about, and that is if you're in a project, finish it with a bang. Don't plan to just retire once you get through it, because finishing opens up incredible opportunities that never appear to the people who don't get across the finish line. It's kind of like when you climb to the top of a mountain. You can see views that other people might have been telling you about. But when you see them with your own eyes and you see other possibilities of places you can go, all of a sudden now you own those possibilities. They become real to you. And by going out there and stepping up to where you starred in a movie you had that made that breakthrough, this seems like one of those situations, like you said, you didn't know it was going to have that kind of impact.

No, I didn't, I didn't realize it at the moment. And you know, that that's something, I think that happens to a lot of people. They don't realize, you know, at, at, at that time, you know, a relationship, they'll, you know, you meet somebody, you don't know whether you know where it's going to take you and where are you going. It's just amazing, isn't it? Life and how you deal with it and how it affects you and where you go. I mean, it's a miracle, isn't it?

Yeah. And you've been very generous about how you were treated and this, that and the other. But a lot of things in life where your life is determined, when people are not nice to you, you know, it doesn't fall your way. And you said in. I highlighted a statement you made. He said, I've been very fortunate. And I think it's largely because I was determined, you know, basically you made a decision yourself. I was determined to be a working actor with the emphasis on working. I just kept going to the plate and swinging. It didn't matter whether reviews were great or terrible, whether the films and shows were successful or unsuccessful. I just kept showing up. And some actors go into a depressive shell when something doesn't work, as if a critical or commercial failure is somehow a reflection on them and their ability. And I've never believed that.

Yep, that's what I believe.

Yeah. And so the one thing that you've told yourself is you can't control what happens to you, but you can control your reaction to it. And your reaction as a result of the decision you made early on is, I'm just going to keep moving forward.

Yeah, that's true, Larry. And I also think that, you know, you can't. Nobody has any control. You know that when you think you can control something, you can't really control it. You know, I don't feel you keep.

You know, you come back to this theme again. Another place. You said time. And the key fact, the key factor is time. Things can change in a minute. I keep telling people that the prime factors are time, listening and the refusal to do anything other than keep going.

That's it. You gotta keep going, Larry. You gotta keep going.

You know, I remember Bob Dylan, you know, he had his biggest hits early on, but he's never stopped touring and putting out albums. And I think in the around 2005, he put out an album like acoustic folk album that got amazing critical reviews. And when I talk about this fairly frequently, it comes up fairly frequently because, you know, he's another legend in the music business.

Have you interviewed him? Have you had him on your podcast?

I have not gotten Bob yet. He's very elusive. He's very hard to get. My brother knows him real well.

Tremendous talent, tremendous.

But they asked him, they said, you know, how did it feel in the recording studio when you're recording this? You know, did you know that you really had something special special and was going to be a big hit? He said. He said, well, we didn't know what we had, but we went in and recorded it anyway. Yeah, and I remember a similar story of a lady came up to Steve Martin on the street and said, you know, that last movie, I usually like your movies, but that last movie, that one wasn't too good. He goes, well, I just made another one. Maybe you'll like it.

He is a great talent, isn't he? Boy, Steve Martin, he is really talented.

And in a lot of different ways. And so acting and comedy. But as you move forward, what do you get the most enjoyment out of? Why do you. Is it just continuing to get the enjoyment from working?

Well, you know, I really love what I do, you know, and it's kind of. You know, it's kind of a miracle about how it all happens. You know, the script, the actors, the director. And it's kind of a miraculous sort of thing when it works. And I just. I really enjoy it. I enjoy very much being with the actors. And, you know, they're very respectful of me these days. You know, they look up at me and say, hey, what was it like when you did this picture with Jimmy Cagney? What was it like when you worked with Barbara Stanwyck? And what was it like? You know, they're very interested in those days, in that time, in that era, and I was very fortunate to be a part of it, you know, and be involved in it.

And how do you came out of it, but you keep moving forward. How do you keep yourself fresh and how do you keep your contacts out there? I mean, is it just a matter of waiting for your agent to get roles, or are you staying current, staying in touch with people? And, you know, because, you know, as soon as you stop anything, it's amazing how quickly people forget you. You know, they say that's the story of the professional athlete. The minute you quit, you're forgotten. You know, and it seems.

Well, I feel. I feel that that's something, you know, that's something that I haven't. I'm not, you know, that active anymore in town. You know, I'm not in production now because, you know, it's just changed a bit. I don't have any. I had one story I tried to get, you know, I've tried to get off the ground a little bit, but the business has changed so much that, you know, I find myself. There's not a lot of scripts hitting the door. You know what I mean?

Right. You know, I've got a note here from that Broken. You've talked about the movie Broken Lands.

Yes. Huh.

You talk in the book about. I'd been under the illusion that when you became an actor by practice, and I thought it was like learning to play golf or tennis, you go to the pro, let them teach you. And then it took me a while to realize I had to learn to use myself to get to where I needed to go and learn to get out of my own way, talk about that.

Right. Yes. Well, that's sort of. I mean, I just, you know, kind of felt that. Because that's what you. If you wanted to learn how to play tennis, you went to a pro. If you want to learn how to play golf, you went to a professional, you know, and you. You learned from those guys. You learned. They gave you everything they could give you. And I thought, well, if you wanted to be, you know, a good actor, you went to the. To the best pros, you know, to the people that could really help you. And I studied a lot. You know, I went to New York, and I was in a lot of different classes, and I was constantly going to coaches and having people help me. And I still do. If I get a character that's, you know, really good, like with. When I did the picture with Mike Myers, you know, I mean, I worked with a man called Tom Todoroff on that character of Number Two, and, you know, we kind of brought some things to it, but Mike really wrote it for me. You know, There is a break. There's a break for you. I did Saturday Night Live, and Mike was on the show and he wrote a couple of the skits. I played a gay nurse, and I played a guy that went out with this wonderful woman and ate food that spilled all over me. But whatever it was, he saw something in me that. A comedic sense that was right for number two. And they wrote number two for me. When that hit the door, I thought, oh, my, what an opportunity this is. So I tried to use everything to answer your question. You know, I went to professional people to help me, you know, get there. Most actors do that, you know, they. They have a coach. But, you know, I was always looking for more, you know, something that can give me something to that. That I could use and make it fresh. Because you do it once, you know, that's it. It's over. You do it twice, you can't go back and recapture it. You know, it's all in the moment.

It's all in the moment. And it's like photography in the sense when you shoot a shot, you're shooting something that's never going to happen again, and you. Right. You know, and you go. And you get that image. You can go back. I've got some of my photography. I don't know if you ever go to Poppycocks and. And eat breakfast or lunch, but all the photography in there is mine and.

Oh, it is.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. Yeah. All of that's mine. And I've gone back to A lot of those places again and again and trying to get, you know, maybe a better picture of the same scene. It's like, no, no, that one's gone.

Yeah, that moment is gone. How long have you been doing the photography for? For a long time?

Yeah. Pretty much all my life, you know, but last 10 years, I've done more of it. And by the way, I've got a gallery. I've got to invite the two of y' all over to my gallery on East Hyman.

Yeah, we'll be there.

Yeah.

And, you know, isn't it amazing today that you can take a picture on your phone and send it to somebody and they've got it a minute later?

Absolutely.

I mean, remember the days when we used to take all of the Kodachrome and get the. Oh, my God, isn't that amazing? And the quality is very, very good, I think.

Absolutely. And that brings up another thing of when you work, you're showing up on a new scene, you're creating something new, you know, a new character with new. A lot of new people. And how do you go about making, Settling into your groove and getting into your rhythm, a successful rhythm when you're in a new project, you know, you show up, you got it like. Like, you can't just go through the motions. You have to create something that's authentic and real, you know, so you gotta be comfortable when you're doing that. And how do you get yourself into that kind of rhythm or into that zone in so many different things, you know?

Well, there's a lot of people that, you know, like, I can go, let's bring it up to date. Like with ncis, they write the script, they have the characters. You have your character in the background. With my character, I know it pretty well. They have a table read. And from the table read, you start to try to get the moments that you think are going to be important for the character and for the scene. And you rehearse it, run it a couple times. You rehearse it. You rehearse it with the people. They're all available. And you've got a director, they're usually very good. And you've got two producers and writers, and everybody's going for the same moment for the quality or whatever it might be that they are trying to make you realize at that time, between two actors, three actors, four actors, whatever. I mean, it's fascinating how it all works. And when it works, it is magic. It's magic when it works.

And do you see a lot of difference from it? Sounds like sports where you're doing your practice, you're doing your warm ups, you're doing your pre game and then you, you know, now it's showtime. Do you see a big difference when, you know, I used to do show jumping and you could do warm up in the ring and outside before you went in and the horse is knocking all the rails down and, you know, you just, you know, it's just terrible. And then you go in and then you wind up winning the class. You know, somehow all the errors came out in the. Before you got in the ring, you know, do you find.

Isn't that so exciting? Yeah.

And did you have, I guess you've had a lot of experiences, that kind of things?

Well, yeah, I have. And, you know, sometimes you think it, sometimes you think it's there, sometimes you think it's going to work and it doesn't happen. It doesn't work. Maybe there's too many people involved with it. Maybe they overstated it. You know, there's so many possibilities of it going in a negative direction when it could go in a positive direction. That's why it's magic when it all happens. It's like with jumping a horse, you can have a champion and you take him into the ring and you come up to that fence and boom, he knocks one over.

Yeah.

You know, and then you think, oh, how can I pick that up?

Yeah.

But you know, in our business, you can go back and try it again.

Yeah. In a performance thing, people don't realize the, in a performance arena, there's so many incredible variables. When it actually works, it's the reward is greater than whatever paycheck they cut for you. Don't you believe?

I do. I do believe that. Very much so, Larry. Very much so.

And also the thrill, I mean, in terms of building relationships that last over a lifetime. You talk about you with Spencer Tracy and broken Lance and then he gave you the lead in the Mountain. When you go through those things, that's when relationships really build by pulling off some kind of great achievement together. And then nobody can ever take those things from you.

No, they can't.

I have to knock this episode off. We've been, we've gone long enough, but I want to come back and talk to you about that and creating those special moments and the reward and payoff of that. And so I really have enjoyed talking about relationships and some of the process you've been through and your mindset.

Yeah, well, I thought you kind of liked that.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to look forward to doing this again, so thanks so much, rj.

Oh, you're welcome, Larry. It's such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Million Dollar Mastermind with me, Larry Wydell. If I've helped you in any way, leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. For more information like this, listen to our other Million Dollar Mastermind episodes and check out my Wydell Academy YouTube channel and visit us on widelawnwinning. Com. I'm the Million Dollar Mastermind. And until next time, go go.