Episode 290: Failing Fast Leads to Explosive Growth with COO of ZeroBounce Brian Minick

Welcome to this episode of the Million Dollar Mastermind.

I'm Larry Weddell.

And before we get started, if you want to know exactly how to win again and again, go to Wydell on winning.com webinar now to watch something I've put together for you. Now let's get going into this episode.

Of Million Dollar Mastermind. I'm here with Brian Minick. He is the chief operating officer of Zero Bounce. And the company was started went live 2017, and he's had a lot of experience in operations and systems administration. I'll let him tell you about Zero Bounce. But the big thing is they have in record time got over 100,000 customers, paying customers in every country in the world. So, Brian, welcome.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

It's exciting to have you on. I'm excited to hear this story. And where are you located today and where's the company?

I'm in Boca Raton, Florida, which is where our headquarters are. We also have a satellite office in Santa Barbara, California, in Vegas, and we have a office in Europe as well.

Well, I was just in Boca the other day and flew out of Palm Beach International last night. I'm talking to you from Aspen right now.

All right. You missed the weather.

Yes, I missed the weather. I had to pick up something at Town center, so I had to run to Boca. But, you know, it's, you know, you got an exciting story. Tell people what Zero Bounce does. You know, it's a big part of right in the middle of the online world right now, you know, communication with email and for businesses, absolutely critical. So give us the kind of elevator pitch on Zero Bounce.

Sure. So Zero Bounce, we are a email validation provider. We consider ourselves to be the best in our industry. And what we do, our job and mission as a company is to help our customers make sure that the emails they're sending to deliver and not just deliver, but deliver into the inbox. So there's massive difference between delivering an email to inbox and delivering it to your spam folder. There's no value in spam. I think we all know this. And so making sure you're not there and you stick in the inbox folder is critical to any email marketing and even just messaging. So that's, that's what we do and what we help our customers do. And we actually check the authenticity of the email address on your list. So just an example would be brianerobalance.net that would be a valid email address and we actually go and ping the mailbox and see if it exists. And you can think of it as like a postal worker walking up and down the street to see if the address really exists before they drop off mail. That is what we do and what our job is. And to date, we have done this over 7 billion times. So we know what we're doing, we know how to do it at scale, and we know how to do it right.

Yeah. Unbelievable. Now, where did this idea come from, and how much were you involved in the creation of the thing?

Got it. So Zero Bounce is part of a group of companies that kind of help serial entrepreneurs. And so there was a need to have this service in the network. And when we went out and looked for a provider to essentially do this work, we were very let down with how it was being handled, primarily around how people handled the data. So for us, data is, you know, we take it very seriously. We take the handling and the privacy and the security of that data to an extreme level. Levels we don't have to, but we think are the right levels. When we took a step back, we said, who are we going to send our data to? And we said, none of these guys, that's for sure. So we actually founded it and came up with a better way to do it and a better way to handle all the security of the data. So it was really kind of a thought for internal use, which then said, well, we should probably put this out in the marketplace, and here we are.

And what did. How did you get the chief? Well, what's the name of the group, by the way?

The name of the group is Benjen, and they do a lot of work with email.

Okay, and how did you wind up in the COO spot? Was that right off the bat, or did you slide over to that from another company?

Yeah, so I was previously at a large marketing operations group, kind of like an agency, but they helped very large brands with retailers. And I was kind of picked out for just the ability to set up scale and get procedures in place. So I'm very big in. In procedures and very big in kind of automating. Don't do anything twice manually. It should be automated. And so, you know, we're a tech company. We believe in doing things the right way. And I was brought in very, very early to put everything in the right place and very proud of kind of where we are and how we got here.

So let's talk about. You've helped lead this company to explosive growth in a matter of four short years, including pandemic, up to 100,000 customers in countries all over the world. How does that happen? Was that because of the network or what do you attribute that growth to?

I attribute the growth to probably a couple things. So number one, I would say persistence. That was probably one of the biggest things that number one, we would hire for. So when we're looking for people to join in a startup organization, I'm not looking for somebody that just constantly, you know, wants to get a paycheck and do his job. I'm looking for someone that has ideas and is an entrepreneur within himself or herself. And so persistence is failing and not getting let down from that. And so we fail a lot. And I would say that's probably one of the key things. Failing nine times out of 10 is a win to me. That's really how we believe. That's the culture we have. So, you know, we have ideas and we execute on the ideas. Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't. But the key piece that I would say, you know, besides the persistence is all of these little things. When you get those, you know, wins here and there, when they start to compound, that's what really starts to bring you to next levels. So paying attention to your customer, hearing what they want, being persistent to get there, not sacrificing on your core, you know, your core values as a company and your core strengths, I would say is a key kind of component to get in there. But and hiring the right people, I think that's critical, especially in startups.

Well, absolutely. And, you know, hiring, hiring good people really can accelerate your growth, save yourself a lot of problems. And how did you, you know, how do you go about that process? You know, we're looking for people that are entrepreneurial, good people. And how do you go about that process?

Sure. So the first thing I do is barely look at the resume. And that's the dead honest truth. The resume to me is a piece of paper. Doesn't give me what I'm looking for. Never has, and probably never will. So for me, it's all about, you know, so let's say I'm hiring a marketing person or I'm hiring a developer, something of that nature. I would give them little projects and say, hey, this is something I would like you to complete. And I would give them a timeline of, you know, whatever, five days. The guys who stood out and the people who stood out are the ones who would be pinging me with questions at 2 in the morning. The project would be handed in three days early. It was thoughtful, not perfect, because they don't know the Business in and out, but thoughtful and fresh ideas. And, you know, they want to know what, what I think and they want to talk and they want to, you know, they're very persistent. And so that's really something that I'm looking for. And you know, again, to me, resume is nothing but a piece of paper. Half its fluff, in my opinion, anyway. And so to me, it's putting the skills down and let me see what you can do. So, you know, and we give them an inviting kind of approach, which is we're not here to tell you what to do. It's actually the opposite. I'm here for you to tell me what to do. And I just kind of, you know, really create that culture. And when you let a bunch of people who are a players do what they want to do because they think it's the right thing for the company, it gets interesting. You now have like seven founders that are thinking like you're thinking. They're not thinking like, okay, Friday's payday, right?

Yeah, we just had someone left our office last week. And of course, you know, the truth comes out when they leave. And one thing, the telltale sign was the word was you could hear him reach for his keys at 455.

You.

Know, you could hear, hear the jingling of the keys at 455, you know, and that's, that's somebody who's got their mind on something other than, you know, the primary thing is, is, is making a big deal in the company and excited about the mission. Now talk about when you say failing nine times out of 10 and learning things, and that shows you're on the attack. And, you know, one of the things I've said, Brian, all the time is if you want a neat office, send your business into a slope or stagnate on your growth. Because the neat places, the organized, super in charge type places, clean, etc. Are usually those that are on a down getting ready to go into a death spiral because they've been doing the same volume for so long. They know how to do it efficiently and they focus on doing it real well rather than getting much bigger. And growth is chaos. Growth adds chaos to a pretty little world. And talk about how, walk me through. To get growth, you got to try new things. You got to be calling, calling plays, trying this, how about this, let's go that. You got to be on the attack and when things fall apart, you got to learn from it and attack again, you know, and so as you, it's like sharpening a knife and so as you go out, walk me through some of that, a typical type program or launch or something where, you know, you get a lot of failures and then you get. You find a way to do it.

Hey, listen, there's a lot of information online, but there aren't a lot of people who have actually done something. In my case, I've actually built a successful business that's accrued over $5 billion.

In assets under management and has done.

Well even during trying times. Now, if you want to know exactly how I've done this, go to Whiteellumwinning.com webinar Now, I've compressed a decade of learning into five short weeks. Just for those of you who want to give yourself an incredible advantage and are tired of waiting and watching others move.

Sure. So, you know, my belief is fail fast. Right. Try anything you want, but fail fast. And know when to pull out of it. Right. So I can give you a few examples. We. So we're a software company. We, you know, we have a software as a service and a platform. And email obviously ties into a lot of different other softwares such as, you know, I'm just going to name some big tools like mailchimp or Constant Contact. You know, people. People typically heard of those. And so we kind of put a lot of effort in somebody's like, we should integrate with mailchimp. This is gonna change the business. Mailchimp has, you know, hundreds and hundreds and thousands of customers, and they'll all use us. Okay, let's do it. What's the timeline on the project? What's it gonna take? What do you need? And let's execute. So we went out and executed and integrated with four or five very large softwares like that. And two and a half years later, I think it's been. Now, they're not fruitful at all. They have never really paid back. They've never, you know, the logos are nice to put on the website and things like that, but they have not kind of turned into fruition like we hoped. Right, Right. So the. There's nothing wrong with that. We still gained a little value, but I would still, in general, without bringing emotion into it, call it a failure. You know, it did not grow the business in a way that we expected. So, you know, now I'm hesitant to do that, but I've learned from it. Before I was like that, yeah, this is genius. We should do that. And now that I have some experience behind it, just kind of, at least for our business in particular, it didn't really pan out. The way we hoped when another kind of opportunity came up to expand the product. It's not the exact same use case. I was a little hesitant, and then I said, no, we should do it because it's quick. We can figure it out. If it's not good, we fail fast. It took off. We launched a new product where people can see activity on the email addresses that they're sending into our system. And so it's not an integrator with another tool. But I'm just giving you an example of. We have a weekly meeting. It's a product meeting, where a lot of my core guys come together. Core guys and girls, for the record, come together. And, you know, it's an open whiteboard. What should we do? What do you want to do? Where should we go? Ultimately, it has to align with our North Star, and we just throw a bunch of ideas on the table, and we kind of vet them to see how long it might take to do them, and we line them up and knock them down like bowling pins. And to me, if you're not doing that, then you're just stale and stagnant. And how can you expect to grow if you're not trying new things, if you're not challenging yourself and the team? And so, you know, obviously. Obviously ties into a lot of the culture part that I was talking about, but I'm looking for the people that want to do that. And so when you get a lot of those people together, like I said, and you give them a room to sandbox, that's when magic really starts to happen. So when you have seven, 10 people thinking like a founder or thinking like an executive, when it gets interesting.

Yeah, yeah. And I've got another subject I want to get in to with you, but before I do, talk about, you know, the idea of a leader that, you know, a leader is supposed to make magic happen. You know, it's like where you get into that creative that's spontaneous. People are throwing ideas out. But if you have a culture where everything's rigid or some people have got psychological, especially the leaders got, you know, my way or the highway and more. More intent on running a program. In fact, I was just. I was in therapy this morning with one of these guru guys. Everything, you know, he does is take. You know, he's got all kind of therapies he could do, but he. He works off the response he gets from your body, determining what he does. But he talked about a chiropractor came into town over the last year, and he's famous from sports and you know, he worked with Tiger and this and the other. He said everybody he hears that went to this guy is like, you know, they're not getting the results they want, you know, and things are breaking down. And what does it turns out the guy's got a system. He came in with a preconceived idea. This is the so and so system for getting your butt in shape. And he's just pushing people through the system rather than Taylor, you know, doing the personal trade, you know, like doing the feedback on a personal basis. And sometimes that's the good thing. But, but if you want to be elite, you know, I promise you he didn't run Tiger Dern woods through a system. You know, he did something tailor made for Tiger Woods. And when you want to build an elite company that goes to the top, you've got to do those extras and you can't be doing them all. As leader yourself, you got to pull that out of your people, that creativity, that drive. And if you don't have that positive environment, you know, that's not going to happen. But you know, really a way of saying that is like, you know, it is funny to use that phrase because I've used it all my life. It's just like when you get great people together and you're talking about great ideas, magic can happen. And that's really what leaders should be creating those environments as much as possible, those opportunities. But most leaders don't even think about it. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So I wouldn't even say at this point in the company that I'm over here with all the ideas. It's actually the complete opposite. I'm over here in, you know, trying to cultivate the ideas out of the team. And what I take very seriously is helping them get it executed right. So enabling them to execute on a thought that they had on how the company could grow. That to me is where the leadership part has to have a shift. You know, in a startup, obviously it's usually one or two people getting things off the ground, but once your, your feet are in the sand and cylinders pumping, maybe not pumping as hard and fast as you want, you have to start bringing other people in and build that engine up to have, you know, more support. So now it's at a point where, like I said, I'm, I'm not the one coming up with ideas left and right. I still come up with ideas, but I don't feel the obligation that I have to do it or no one else will. It's the opposite. They're. They're all over the place. And what's even beauty, you know, beautiful, is I'm able to almost cherry pick some that just look very obvious to me because, you know, everyone just has such thoughtful, different thoughts. And especially when you bring a new person in, oh, man, you gotta. You gotta grind into that person, tell them, you know, send them down a path to investigate and question everything and figure out what would you do different if this was your company? And, you know, if you're not getting the answers, maybe it's not the right person for the company. But, you know, that's something that I'm pretty passionate about doing. And just to be clear, we're not perfect at it. We've had people that we thought are those guys, but they're not. And then I've had some that surprise you. You're like, hey, you know what? I'll take a chance. So you gotta take risks. I think you have to know when to. To part ways with people, too. If they're not the right person for your business, I think that can also be damaging, you know, if they don't. They don't fit. They don't fit, and that's. That's okay. So I think also a lot of. I've seen that before, where a lot of people just get too attached because they're the ones who hired them. And saying that they're the wrong guy is slapping yourself in the face. And it's just like, it's okay.

Yeah, it's like buying a stock and you just won't give it up, even though it's just craters.

Yeah. Again, just fail fast.

Just fail fast. Well, and the thing about making magic, you can't force magic to happen, but you can create the environment where it can happen. And if it happens once or twice to you in your career with your team, you can explode up the chart. So thanks so much, Brian. I've really enjoyed this.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

If you enjoyed what you've heard and are dead serious about finding out for yourself exactly how this works in the real world, I've taken the most valuable business lessons I've learned over 40 years and put them into something for you to watch, go to whiteellawinning.com webinar now. In order to move up as fast as possible, I'm Larry Wydell, and I run the Million Dollar Mastermind. Go, go.