Episode #727 - Don’t Set Realistic Goals, Set Audacious Ones with Sunny McGaw

Welcome to this edition of the million Dollar Mastermind podcast. This is where we pick the brains of high achievers from all walks of life and get their hard earned real world insights on winning. I'm your host, Harry Wydell. Now you started in where, how did you get your itinerary?

Great question. I get asked this a lot. We, I did a ton of research up front where we wanted to go, you know, and we were traveling. We again, small backpack, so we didn't have, we didn't want to go to cold places. Also we're from Canada. We don't, we didn't want to go to, we have enough experience with cold places. So we were mostly in warm weather places with the exception of almost one month in Nepal because we did some climbing in the Annapurna Mountains where we rented gear but we knew we wanted to stay in warm weather places. So that kind of helped us dictate where we wanted to go. But all we booked was we booked one way tickets to Portugal, so five one way tickets to Portugal. And we had three nights booked. And after that it was all planning as we went because we wanted to have the opportunity to be spontaneous, to stay somewhere if we found it interesting or if there was a festival going on or we met some cool people. But we also wanted to be in a position to get out if we didn't like it. So for example, we were almost on our way to Sri Lanka and they had a dengue fever outbreak. Well, we're not going there. So you know, we were able to be pretty agile and I think that's a great way to travel. It's more work, you know, because I was always, we had laptops, I was researching where we're going to go next. But it was a real, you know, that's what makes it a real adventure.

And this turned into a TED Talk for you?

It did, it did.

And what's that experience? Like, had you done TED Talks before? I know you, you're a university lecturer for like what, five years before that or something?

Yeah, no, that was my first TED Talk. I actually, I actually just did another one last week though. That will be coming up soon. Yes. So I've done two TED Talks now and I have also hosted. But my first TED Talk was what an experience. I would absolutely encourage anybody who, who, who's keen to learn. You know, that's like the motherland of public speaking. And I just, I spoke about the trip, I spoke about the things that we learned, the five kind of things that we really learned and practiced and the importance of gritty travel, like to, to build grit, especially for our kids. Right. Our kids are growing up in this very privileged environment, privileged society. Jen said. So how gritty travel builds character, they said.

But it was a talk on optimism. Is that right? Was that the last one?

The last one was a top talk on optimism in goal setting.

Yeah, yeah. Now, okay, and how do they come to you for a talk on optimism and goal setting?

Well, again, I threw my hat in the ring.

Oh, you did? You applied for that?

Yes, I did. Yeah.

And was that the global or a local or a what?

It was a local. So just outside of Toronto. Yep. It's called TEDx Aurora and I spoke about goal setting. So the, you know, high achievement, like we started to talk about the believe in yourself, surround yourself with a good squad. The other three are be laser focused on your goals, have a bias for action, as I said. And the last part of that of, of goal achieving to me is forget about reasonable goals. When I hear somebody say, well, set realistic goals, I'm like, absolutely not. Realistic goals are boring, a waste of time. They hold no magic. You need to set, I like the expression bhag, a big, hairy, audacious goal. That's Jim Collins. Big, hairy, audacious goal. Those are only goals worth having are the big ones. So those are, that's my tenants. And that's what I spoke about in my last TED Talk.

Yeah. And the way I look at that. And you said the, the, the, the magic word, which is magic.

Yes.

Is the, the idea of a goal is to do something exciting that you want to do, you know, that you do ordinarily. And for that you, to do something that's a stretch that's beyond your normal, you got to be able to remember it and stay focused. Like this whole thing about people who, they come up and say, how do you stay focused? Well, you know, I've got big things I'm going for. You know, it's like, how can you know, it's. Kids don't forget that Christmas is coming. They don't, you know, they don't forget their birthday's coming. And you know, there's a chance to get a big present there. You know, it's. If something is big for you, you don't forget about it. And so the people, it's almost always the people that just going nowhere that ask you that question, you know, it's amazing. It's like, and the other thing is, like, people always used to ask me, you know, why are you going for number One, you know, it's like going. Going for number one or. Or don't go, you know, that type thing. And the thing is, I said, I've just never been able to get anybody excited about going for number two. And, you know, it's like, I can't get myself excited. I can't think of any new ideas. I can't push myself to go for number two. And the thing is that when you take the lesser goals, that's number two, because in your mind, you have the number one goal, the big one, and when you take the lesser one, that's the number two goal or two, three or four or five, and, you know, you're planning for failure right off the bat. Like, you know, high achievers don't do that. And so would you. You got in there. How did you climb the ladder in business? And what are you most proud of, what you did in your business career? What are. What are some of the things that your accomplishment there? Because, you know, to turn into, you know, you were. You've been a university lecturer since what, what, 2015 or something like that?

Yeah. Took a hiatus during COVID Yeah, yeah.

So you got to have some accomplishments to attract attention from somebody to get. Come in and teach the next generation about how to do it in business. So what are some of those achievements that, you know, you really got you excited.

Great question. I. I think I. I mentioned to you, or we talked about briefly, that I became a creative director when I was 40, and that was a time so I'd taken several years off work to raise children. So in Canada, when you have a baby, you get one year maternity leave. So I had three babies almost in a row. So I was off work for essentially about five years, which is a long time in marketing and advertising, especially in the digital age when things are moving so quickly. And when I went back to work, I didn't even dream that I could become a creative director. It was not even in the cards.

I thought, this is creative director for those. Explain Creative director Don Draper. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. The person in charge of the creative department in an advertising agency. Yeah. So I did. I just didn't have on my. On my dream list. It was not on my vision board. And, you know, through a series of events, I was offered the opportunity, and it was for a great agency in Toronto. We had really big clients. I was delighted to get it. And it was at a time when only 3% of creative directors in Canada were women. So it was. What a wonderful honor it was to get that. And I Had an amazing team. We had big budgets, we won awards, I got to travel. But. And here's the big. Of course there's a big. But the higher up that ladder I climbed, the further away from my purpose. I felt this was really important. I wasn't, I was coming home at night and not feeling like myself. I wasn't feeling, like we mentioned earlier, like I was serving people, like I was helping people. And my, my, my big North Star. My north star always is leave things better than you found them. And I wasn't feeling like that, Larry. So there was, there was. I had a, an aha moment and it was this. One of our biggest clients was a pop, soda pop and salty snacks. Company will remain nameless. And I found out that on staff they had someone who specifically was there to analyze when working moms felt the most guilty because that's when we could sell them the really sweet soda pop and the really salty snacks. So I couldn't believe that we were exploiting these working moms. This did. They're vulnerable. They feel guilty. I was one of them. And I just thought, this is not for me. This is, this is not the line of work I want to be in. I'm not helping anybody. I don't sleep at night. So after that, I actually resigned that week. And yes, I did. And since then I have only worked in entrepreneurship. So I've had a few startups myself. I've been a partnership, I've been on small teams and now I work coaching women in entrepreneurship. So the thing I'm most proud of was leaving that cush job to go into the unknown. But I was following my purpose.

Well, explain to people what it's like when you're working with big players like Starbucks, Coke, General Motors, et cetera. What is that like in terms of. You had to learn too. You'd never done it before, so it had to be an eye opener for you. The things that you wound up doing, beyond the unpleasant type things, it's just the scale of it and the magnitude of dealing with companies like that and then the impact you could have there. What did you learn that allowed you to excel?

Well, there's certainly a lot of hard skills that I learned, but I think one of the best skills I learned, and I would say to anybody who wants to learn some skills in, in almost any field, almost any field, learn to public speak. Learn to speak for yourself. Learn to advocate, Learn to pitch an idea. My gosh, learning to pitch an idea is gold. It's gold. I mean, there's Chris Voss, he's got an institute called the Black Swan Institute. Are you familiar with him? Yeah, Power of persuasion, FBI negotiator. He's just, he's. He's excellent, excellent. I've read everything and I follow him. He's wonderful. And so, you know, learning to sell your idea, sort of like a Dale Carnegie, Chris Boss across is. Is very, very important. So that's something that I learned to do. And that's probably one of the reasons that I became a successful creative director, is I could go into a room filled with people and sell an idea.

And how did you learn how to do that? When you, you go into that room, what are you thinking? Probably you gotta. You got yourself programmed before you go in the room. But anyway, you go in, what are you thinking? And what's the first thing you're thinking? What's the second thing? And then what do you work yourself through? And then we're done. How would you negotiate those type experiences?

First thing, I again, back to, like, fake it till you make it. I visualized myself having an alter ego. And this is, this is a life hack for confidence. This is such a good life hack for confidence. If you don't feel confident or you're feeling nervous, picture that you have an alter ego. So Beyonce, as an example, has an alter ego. When she goes on stage. She's in Beyonce, she's Sasha Fierce. And Kobe Bryant, when he went onto the court, he was Black Mamba.

Yeah, right.

You can have an alter ego that makes you more confident, more unstoppable, more fierce, more powerful. So I, I don't have an. I don't have a name for my alter ego, but I really did think about stepping into a role, like putting on an invisible cape, a superhero, and being like, okay, now I am so confident. I'm going to pitch this idea. They are going to love it. I'm going to make eye contact with them, and at the end of it, they're going to thank me. So, you know, so setting an intention, being really, you know, confident, power posing in advance. I love all that stuff. I buy into it completely. But also, how did I learn how to do it? I read, I researched, I listened to podcast after podcast after podcast. Zig Ziglar, all the best. You know, if I, if I don't know what to do, I'm going to go and learn from the best. If I can talk to them face to face, fantastic. If there's something, you know, but that, that's how I learn. And then I practice, practice, practice.

Okay. So let's get past that point now. You're doing it, you're walking in and you, you know, I used to tell people when I'd, we'd have big events and you'd have a new speaker, they're not used to being up in front of the crowd or something. I'd always tell them, fire bullets, don't fire blanks, you know.

And how did that go?

Yeah, yeah, it just got them out of their mind of going up there, tippy toeing up, you know. And the one thing I would always do is tell myself, smile, you know. Dead guy. Yeah, you know, the basic simple things. Get yourself, you know, go in with energy, smile, let them know you're glad to be there. Don't go, don't go up a pile. It's like in golf, you know, you've always got to swing to and through the ball. You know. In fact, Alex Rodriguez said his hitching, his pitching coach, that he had early in his career, the, the advice was always swing with momentum and accelerate through the ball, accelerate through contact, don't go up and then like, oh, maybe it's not going to be good, you know. No, you know, it's like swatting a fly with a fly swatter, you know, you're not going to get the fly if you're, I don't know, you know, you gotta, you gotta zingy, you know. And so when you, that's one thing when you're going in, you got to project that this is going to be great. But what are you trying to do? What would you get to where you were trying to do and you were, you were, got good at it. You, you want to get everybody on your side, you want to get their interest. And so would you try and come up with some right off the bat, some statistics, try and have some things to disturb them or. I'm sure your, your first thing you did was not tell a corny joke or something, but what would you go in there to try and establish rapport with that?

Well, if I could tell a joke, honestly Larry, I would. I, I think I have a good sense of humor in that. I think things are funny, but I'm not funny. But sometimes I think I'm funny, but I'm not. So I never led with a joke. I also don't typically lead anything by introducing myself and thanking them for being there. That's fine, that'll come later. But I think right now you've got a very short window of time to establish credibility and to really hook your audience. So if you have 12 people around a boardroom table or a TED audience, really the principles are the same. Hook them right away. And you hook people with stories. You can have facts and data and stats to back it up, but hook people with stories. So I like the structure. When you enter a room, you tell them what you're going to tell them. You tell them, and then you tell them what you told them. We know that works. That's a proven way of doing things. And so that's the approach I took. And I led with stories, I led with emotion.

Yeah, well, you know, you were naturally real good at this early on when you had basically a presentation to the Club Med people over the phone. You know, you hooked it right off the, right off the bat. I think you've got a propensity for, for doing that. And you know, it's just like some, some people can figure that out, some people can't. But obviously it has taught you well. When you got in front of college students, you're saying, okay, I've got to teach them about business. What do you find yourself talking about?

So one of the reasons that I was a professor there, I wasn't a professor. I was on the, I was on the constant rotation. So I was a guest speaker essentially, but, but on a, on a regular rotation. And what they liked about me is I had real world experience. So professors in marketing often have been professing about marketing for a long time, which is obviously very valuable. And there's just a ton that you can learn there. But also it's so exciting for students to talk to somebody who's actually in the field. Right. Who's got, who's. Who's living real time experiences. So often the students I was teaching were more educated than me. Some of them were my age or, you know, they were, because they were graduate students. These are people studying their masters. So I was on my toes. I'll tell you. I was on my toes because the questions were dazzling. These were. I was always marveled at the, at the level of sophistication of the questions that I was asked. This is at York University in Toronto in the Schulich program. So a very esteemed business program. Yeah. And it was, it was really all about. I was teaching marketing for entrepreneurs. And so my favorite thing to talk about.

So, you know what, what would be a kind of question you'd get that really made you think that you can recall for or can you recall where they would.

A lot of the questions that were really clever were about intent. You know we're about intent. So when you did this or when your company did this, what was the intention? What was the hope? What was the aspiration? What were the risks you took? You know and they, and they, so they, they, they were pretty astute questions along those lines. And so it wasn't, it was big idea questions not like minutia tactical things, there's nothing in the weeds. It was always like pretty brilliant stuff. And, and that's, that's, you know leaders want that kind of question. So it was, it was a rewarding experience.

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