Part 1 - How Bobby Gocool Conquered Introversion And Found His Voice

Welcome to this edition of the Million Dollar Mastermind podcast. This is where we pick the brains of high achievers from all walks of life and get their hard earned real world insights on winning. I'm your host, Larry Wydell.

Hello, Bobby Gokul. How are you doing today?

Pretty good, Larry, pretty good. It's always good chatting with you. I'm so glad I get a chance to chat with you again today.

And thanks for coming back on. You're up in Toronto today.

Yes, yes, I am in Toronto. Yes, I am.

Yeah, we've talked before and I wanted to get you back on because I like the opportunity to dig deeper, have more time to kind of dig deeper into the struggles, the situations, the mental processes that you go through because we did the best we can. Oh, I have new guests on, but it's nice to have the opportunity to kind of dig deeper. And so as you were coming up, what do you, you know, yourself, when we go through these things, it really is useful because we're able to take those lessons and pass them on to other people. So it's almost like the more you suffer on the way up, the better you are at basically building your management team and then if you want to open offices and expand, allowing you to do that, help build independent leaders. So because everything you've gone through, they're probably going to have to go through at one time or another. So as you were coming up, how long did it take you to really break through? I mean, and how confident were you when you started into your business that you're in now? Was that a scary thing or was that a natural thing or did you have a lot of confidence right from the beginning?

Larry, if when I look back today, for me, when I started my business, someone was to interview me and look at my credentials and my expertise to do what I do today, there's no way they would have hired me. Yeah, I mean, when I came in, I was extremely introverted. I had done some part time telemarketing, sales because I did that out of necessity to make some additional part time income.

But there was no way growing up.

Anywhere I saw myself involved in any type of sales or marketing. So when I saw this opportunity, I got excited. But when I got home and I realized what I have to do, I started to sweat, I started to get scared because this is totally foreign to me. I did not have much of a business experience. I had, I was extremely introverted, didn't like to talk to people I know I didn't know. And so when I Look at it says. I mean, I got to go talk to people I don't know. I got to go to visit people I don't know. I got to do presentations to people and I got to convince them on something. This was scary. Like, I was the kind of guy, like I figured, okay, and if I have something to do, I go about and I get it done myself. I know I can take care of me.

Yeah.

But then to get other people involved and then marketing something to them, it was very, very, very scary.

Yeah. And so I kind of felt the same way. But what kept me coming back was I knew that 85% of the people in the world that made big dollars, they're in that top 1%, 10% or whatever, were in sales in one way or another or had started in sales, had come up through the sales, sales, management, something like that. And because business is selling products, selling services, selling stuff, you got to have new customers, new clients, new markets, new. And then you got to fight your competition for it. It's like you're not going to go in very few things and be the only game in town, and you got to convince people to do business with you. So that process, when you say, what do people say? Because you hear it all the time, that I'm, you know, even headed with Bruce Springsteen. They're interviewing Bruce Springsteen. And he said, yeah, the music business was a struggle for me and elements of it because he said, you know, I'm an introverted guy. And I'm thinking, what? Shut up. I'm an introvert. Well, why did you pick up the guitar and get up in the mic and be the lead singer? You wanted the spotlight on you, but you do feel that's one thing to do, that is another thing to meet and greet people and get to know people on a one on one basis and have confidence to just have conversations with people. And that is a skill that is something you go through and do it enough to where you realize the mystery's getting taken out of it. You know, it's like when we're coming up, the beautiful girl. What do you say to the drop dead gorgeous girl? You're paralyzed with seeing how beautiful she is and everything. It's just like, just say something, you know, she's just a person. You strike the conversation and once you get it going, you break the ice. And usually it's a question you can start to feel comfortable. When you say I was introverted, what does that mean?

Well, I mean, Larry, like, if I saw you somewhere and I didn't know you, it's almost 100% chance I would not start up a conversation. If I'm in an elevator and there's five people, I just cannot wait to get to my floor, to get off the elevator. Wherever I was, if I didn't know someone, I was not the kind of person who was very good at making new friends. Yeah, if I was somewhere where I didn't know people, I would try to get out of that situation, to get into a situation where I would find people that I was familiar with. So I was not really good at creating new friendships, new contacts. That was not part of my strength.

And why do you think you were like that or why do you think people are like that? Because I know that I've been pegged as a great recruiter over my lifetime, but I would never personally do a whole lot of one on one recruiting like some people do. I do it through an organization or recruit through people and get teams and get organizations doing it. But to go out there and just be the naturally life of the party person, that was not me. Although I never saw myself as introverted, but I never saw myself as extroverted either. And so why do you think people. But it's. Was there unpleasant experiences you had growing up to where people like put you back in your box when you tried to interact or what?

I don't think it was people putting it back, but I think it was part of the upbringing where basically you were kind of told, don't mix with people that you don't know, you don't understand. Stay within the norm. Family, close friends.

Why would they say that? Because I think a lot of families say that. I think a lot of people come from that. In our neighborhood. This, that and the other don't do that. Why do you think they do that? Why is that helpful for a child?

I think a lot of times the grownups who do that, I think they're sort of being more of a. They feel that they're protecting you because they're figuring, you know, you may probably go out there and if you don't know who you're going to get involved in or who you're going to hang out with, maybe you could. Consequently you could hang out with the wrong crowd and get yourself into trouble. So they're trying to keep you on that path within part, sort of a safe path where you associate with people. You're not dwelling into too much of the unknown.

Yeah. And that's probably it. Most people are going through life, they're trying to Be safe. They're trying not to get in trouble. They're not trying not to. You know, there's a lot of people think you raise your head up, your head gets cut off, that type thing. But where, on the other hand. And so I can see from that mentality, people that are kind of timid, holding in themselves would pass that on their children. But that's really stupid because you got to have social skills. And the smart parents are going out there with their kids and saying, here's how you meet an adult. They say, here's Mr. Johnson. And they'd go out of their way to introduce their kids to adults. They'd say, this is my oldest son, Bobby, or my oldest daughter, Mary. And she's doing this, that the other. I'd like you to meet Mr. And Mrs. So go out of their way to have their children meet and then teach the kids. Don't look at the ground. If you get introduced to an adult, look them in the eye and shake their hand and have a good grip. You know, you train them on having a good handshake and a smile, smile. Look them in the eyes and say, nice to meet you, and be positive in that situation. The smart parents are teaching their kids social skills in meeting new people right from the beginning. Rather than say, don't go out there, you stay, you hide in the shadows. Who raises their kids to want them to grow up and be hiding in the shadows. You hide in the shadows. You stay in the back. Don't let anybody, you know, if they're important people or the president of the company, they're in charge of promoting people. You hide, you don't meet them. Nobody. That's stupid. They don't think it true, do they, Bobby?

It is so true. You know, Larry, a lot of times, like it might go back at my own upbringing, it was basically taught like, you know, you study, you go to school, you study and you do. But looking back now, you look at. I don't think my parents understood the significance of marketing skills, of it doesn't matter what you know. It's important how you can market yourself. And like you said, it's such a big significance to a young person, life for them to be taught social skills. Like, exactly. You just said when you meet someone, how you communicate. You should exude some confidence, learn to ask questions, learn to be able to pick someone's brain. You meet somebody, ask questions so you can learn something as opposed to just avoiding those situations. And I think that is such an important part, I think, in the upbringing of any child. Because that confidence, I think will take it very, very far in life. And I think it's important, you know, people have not stressed the significance of the importance of mastering culture. Good social skills.

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Notes well, it's all ignorance about winning as far as I think Bobby, that's what we cover. That's why this podcast, I think is popular with a certain element out there is the fact that we kind of lift the veil on how it really is. And the smart thing to realize is like everybody you meet knows the attitude to have is everybody you walk by on the street, everybody you meet, anybody you talk to, they probably know something that could benefit you. They probably know somebody, they probably know something, they probably been somewhere and they probably have some kind of information that could really benefit you if you'll take the time to kind of talk to them and let them talk and find out. But you and I run across people all the time. They just look like dorks. They just look like they've got a bad attitude, you got a frown and they you like and then you start talking to them and all of a sudden they smile and everything changes. And then you make some kind of humorous comment and then you find out this guy you know is or this lady you know, they're very important people, but you would never know that by looking at them. And they got a lot of personality and everything, but you just look at them in the street, you're walking by them, it's like, oh, you know, I'll tell you, I've done training for a zillion years and I remember going back in the day, everybody wore coat and ties and we dressed up, we looked like somebody. We didn't look like all wear sweatshirts and T shirts like everybody does now, and backpacks. But when I would go and see people, I'm used to seeing them dressed up and everything. But when we had our Manager retreats, like a three day full timer retreat. And by the way, I have White l Academy on YouTube, like 180 of these little scrawling videos that I think Bobby's aware of. That is exactly what I would put on the board way back in the day. And when I would do the whole three days myself in training, full timers. But Bobby, I take 100 you. So we would go off to some kind of YMCA camp, some kids camp, something out in the woods somewhere and people wouldn't show up in their coats and ties. They'd show up, dress casual and they look like dogs. I mean it just like I can remember starting off every meeting I'm looking at like 150, 200 people thinking to myself, this is the sorriest group of people I have ever met in my life because most of them come from offices all over and I wouldn't know them. And I like, God, we got the dregs of the world here in our management team. Like this is hopeless. But then what happens? Then you take a, you go an hour or two, then you take a break and then I have another session and then you have break for dinner and then you have a night session and then have a break and you're talking and mingling and they're coming up and interacting. What I'd find by lunch of the second day, I mean my mind completely changed. Like these are the most impressive people I've ever met in my life. It's like there'd be people out of D.C. that ran government agencies or something. They had like 5,000 people underneath them. Back in where they came from are certain every, you have actually doctors in there, lawyers in there, you have CPAs that have their own company, but they're trying to expand and you got people that have been around the world, incredible people who came to us because they were looking for a better opportunity. They want to move up, they want to try something different, they want to get freshened up. But when I looked at them, it's like every single time it was like I'm just gagging at these people, just looking at their faces. But then when you got behind the faces and you got to find out who these people are, it's just mind blowing. And life is a lot like that. You can either go up and down the street with this closed minded attitude that everybody's an idiot. Not really looking to break down the ice and really open yourself up to learning some new things, meeting some new people, because the person you meet, they might know somebody who is exactly who you're looking for. They might have the perfect answer for a problem that you've got. And I heard this way long ago out in Keystone resort one night I was talking to the video guy I'd hired to video our family for going out there and doing a ski trip. And kind of a. They did that as a service. So we had met for dinner and he had this phrase that I remember him saying, I've never forgotten. He said, when you're talking, magic can happen. Whatever the situation is, Magic can happen. If you've got. Especially if you got two high powered, positive type people just talk. It's like here is like why I love getting on with you is like, I don't know what's going to happen. We're going to start talking about some subject. But you got a chance for some magic to happen here. And people listening in have a chance to spark some fires in their mind about moving forward. But as you go forward, how did you force yourself out of that? Because you're going to have to force yourself. You're going to have to be introverted your entire life. I remember Mark Cuban on Shark Tank one time. They had this lady, nice lady and mild mannered, but she had some great idea, don't say what it is right now, something to do with shoes and sounded pretty good. But she said, well, at the end of it, he said, have you been to trade shows? Have you been to this? What have you done on marketing so far? And she said, well, I haven't really done any of that yet because I'm introverted and it's just not my personality. And so Cuban said, okay, I'm out. He said, if you don't believe in your product enough for you to go past your natural inclination being reserved and introverted, you don't want to do this bad enough to get past that. I don't want to be in. That tells me you don't believe in it enough. Because if you believed it enough, you would go past it. So obviously you believed in what you were. You're new opportunity enough to put yourself to go past it. But how hard was it and how did you. What were those steps? You know what?

It was difficult, Larry, but there's a couple of things as you're speaking there, I'm thinking there's a couple of things I remember very early. I was reading one of Dale Carnegie books and he said, everyone you meet who crosses a path with you will either leave you better than they met you or worse than they met you. And I said, I'm going to take on the approach that everyone who meets me is going to leave me better. So I started working myself aside. So whenever I meet someone and the only thing you know, a couple other things about your quality of life is based on the quality of questions you can ask. So I started to learn how to ask questions. And then later on I was reading one of Tom Peters book and he said, life is sales. And I said, I have got to learn because I don't know this stuff. It didn't come naturally to me. I was not taught about this stuff before I started business. But I says, I, these things are crucial. It's very, very important. So at any point I have to consistently be putting forward a proposition. But not just put that proposition, but sell that proposition and sell it to the person so that they can know that their interaction with me would leave them better than when they met me. So these little things I started to, I said, you know what, I don't know. But one of the things I think was a good quality I had is that I always felt that whatever I was going to do, I had to be a good student, I had to learn. So I started to learn these things. And as I started to learn, I started to get better. And like you said, when I started to meet people in the initial meeting, maybe the first five, six minutes or 10 minutes of the meeting, there didn't seem like there was a lot. But once I established a connection and so that's another thing that I worked very hard on to get somehow to connect with that person, I realized, man, you know, if I didn't do this, I'd literally be walking away from a gold mine. Because this person has so much to offer. And when they're comfortable with me and they feel that we have something in common, it's amazing to see them open up and see how talented they are and says, you know what? They're probably like just like how I was when I started. It can be a lot more, but they really don't know how to bring it out.

Yeah, the thing, you know, you bring up the deal about finding something in common with them and asking questions. You don't have to feel like, I don't even know how many great salesmen there are in the world. But I'll tell you this, you can have a great career in sales and not be a master conniver, manipulator, whatever. You treat people right, be pleasant, be brief, get to the point, have a product that can do them some good and shut up and let answer questions. It's answer their questions and then if you want to dig deeper with them, have the right questions to ask them to send them down the road to where you want them to go. I had a at one point in my life where I was immobilized and all I could do was write. I had a list about 40 to 60 books that I figured out I could write. And one of them was the title is going to be Everybody's a Salesman. And the premise is that even parents are salespeople. You got to talk your kids into. You just can't beat them into everything. There's a limit to how much you could beat your kids. If you try to beat them all the time, they're just going to have a tough skit. Okay, go ahead and whack me. The thing is, you've got to let them see how it's in their best interest and get them to buy into it. So they do it not begrudgingly, but they do it with some enthusiasm. And that's going to make it successful and that's going to make it more consistent rather than having to do it every night. And so the finding ways to motivate them in the right way, I remember even. But I mean, it's a skill because I remember my youngest son when I heard the alternate clothes, either this or would you like this or you like that? So and I use that in my business because we would go to homes and do presentations and husband and wife together. And I decided I was only going to work two nights a week. If I had two or three appointments two nights a week, that would be plenty. And I get the rest of it done during the day. And so I would tell people, I great opportunity. I've got some great things to show you. I know you're going to be excited about it. What night is better? Tuesday or Thursday? And then it was me, like early or late, you'd always have alternate clothes. So I had my 2 year old and I remember trying to get him in the bath or something one night and I went in and I said, well look, you want to brush your teeth now or get in the bath and, and get in the tub and take a bath. He said, I don't want to brush my teeth or get a bath. He threw it back at my face. So in sales you learn how to, you've got to learn how to overcome objections and be prepared. But those are skills. You can learn those words. There are great parenting books. There are great. Now it's on social media, YouTube and Instagram and people are geniuses out there. You don't even have to come up with it yourself, but you do have to get it. So you have to prepare yourself and get yourself tools to use, which are basically words you say in those situations. But a lot of it is connecting with people. When. How soon did you learn and how did you learn that? If I'm gonna. Because it's like this for people who want to know about sales is they're not going to buy your product if they don't like your company. And if they don't like your company, if they don't like you, they're not going to like your company. So it's like, first of all, you got to get them liking you. And the best way to get them liking you is they say, if you want to sell a car, talk about a car, you want to sell a house, talk about the house, you want to sell yourself, let them talk about themselves. You don't talk about yourself. It's the reverse. And so when you're talking to people and they're ask. That's why you want to ask them questions and get them talking to you. Because you're listening for something. You can connect with them on something, place they've been an interest, they have something they want to do and something in their family or their kids have done and they're getting ready to do. And then you're. But even as you're just listening there, that's warming up the relationship because you're. Most people don't have anybody take any time to listen to them ever. They're always interrupted at all. And so if you could get them to talk to you, they're going to like you better. Sooner or later you're going to find something you can connect on. And then it's a matter of they might be open to feeling good about the company you represent, the product you're selling, and wind up doing business with you. But it is a process that you go through. And how did you learn that?

When I came into business, like anything else, I figured if I'm going to do this business, first of all, I knew that the business work. I knew I was not getting this. I will not get the success that I need unless I develop into the person who deserves that success. So I studied, read, learned, went to training. And what I did is every time I went out and I did, I met with someone when I leave, I would sort of look at, sort of go back and evaluate what were some of the things That I did, right. What were some of the things that I could improve on? And so every time I'm consistently trying to, I remember, you know, like, I'm always in training for the next person. So I would evaluate, if I tweak, I learn something here. But like what you said, something that I think when I also realized very early is that people like people who are interested in them. For example, when I started in Toronto, Toronto is pretty diverse. I mean, we have people from all different parts of the world. And one of the things that I did is that when I started to meet people, I would ask them questions about them, their culture, right? And I would listen maybe 15, 20 minutes, and they will tell me their family history, their culture, explain things, even take me around their apartment and show me things in their apartment or their houses that, you know, why this is there. And I start to realize that if I spent an hour with them, the actual business transaction only took about 15 minutes. If I spent 45 minutes listening to them. And I realized the most important part of communication is listening. So I started listening to them, started asking questions, not probing about my business, but probing more about them. And they suddenly realized that I was very interested in them. And like you said, in that process, I realized what I did was they got to like me. When people like you, they trust you. Doing business with them is very easy.

Yeah. And it's genuine. You're not going in there just like, oh, I got to listen to these idiots talk about themselves. It's like you, you go in there with the attitude. In Toronto, there's all kind of interesting people with all kind of interesting backgrounds from all over the world, and you find a family and you say, I want to find out what their background is. And you're like, genuinely interested and you get caught up in it. And the time flies. And you can break the biggest barrier just by finding a common ground or something that like. We had a guy come in, Randy Kolohoff, and he said, everybody just naturally love Randy. But so he gets going. He learns the basics and he gets going in sales. And he had this family that someone invited him to him to say, listen. The husband, no, he's an ice cube. He's very belligerent, like a marine drill sergeant. And he won't talk to you. You can go in and talk to the spouse, the wife, but he's not going to get up. So anyway, he walks in, walks in the house, wife meets him at the door, very nice, very, very friendly. They walk through and he's. She's bringing him in. And they walk by the family room and there's the husband. And he's in the recliner stretched out, looking at the tv. And she goes, hey, Johnny, this is Randy. He came by to show us some things. And I said, you know, it's like, didn't even turn his head. He's not going to. Randy tries to say, so Randy knew he was in trouble because he also knew he wasn't going to get any sale if they didn't both listen to it. So we had to get past the drill sergeant at some point. So anyway, she's bringing him into the kitchen. We're going to sit and spread things out in the kitchen. They walk down, turn down this hallway, and there's a big fish mounted on the wall. So Randy goes. He realizes the deal. So Randy's looking for common ground. So he goes, now they're down the hall and they're not in the room, the fanny room, where the guy is. But he goes, wow, who caught this fish? And he said, immediately the guy jumps out of the recliner, comes around. He said, I did. He said, bumblebone got this. He said, from this point on, you couldn't shut him up. And he had to tell the story of the fish and this and the other. Randy said. He said, I understand what you talk about because I love fishing myself. And so they hit it off and they're talking tackle and places they've been. And of course, he walked out of there with a big sale that night, but without connecting with the guy on the fish, he's dead in the water.

And so I think a lot of people don't realize the value of what you just talked about there. One of the things that helped me very early, I realized that it is not just about transaction or doing sales. The most important thing is learn to connect with people. And I think if people realize that, don't worry about your products and your services. You connect. Once you believe in what you. For me, I knew what I was doing was good for people, it's going to help people, but it didn't matter if they didn't get to like me and trust me. And so once. Once they do that, and once you build that connection, it is the most important part of communication. Once you connect with people, the rest of it is. It's very, very easy.

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