Part 3 - How Co-Founder Therapy Saved This Startup

Welcome to this edition of the million Dollar Mastermind podcast. This is where we pick the brains of high achievers from all walks of life and get their hard earned real world insights on winning. I'm your host, Larry Wydell.

Talk to us about the advantages of having a co founder like you do.

Oh well, first off, I am beyond, beyond lucky to have someone like Dan as a co founder. So, so in the early days of Soapbox it was Eric, Dan, Stephanie and I, and Stephanie and Eric, pretty early on in the journey said, you know what, the startup life is not for me. Stephanie wanted to go get her jd, MBA and Eric wanted to start a family and Dan and I just, we forged on and I think statistically speaking, co founded startups have a longer survival rate or a higher survival rate. I think a lot of that comes to it. It's much better when you're able to find someone who compliments your weaknesses with their strengths and then you're able to bounce ideas off someone. You're able to work through problems together. There's so many different things that Dan does better than me and then I'm just incredibly grateful to have him consistently be a part of this. And I think what's interesting is like, man, Larry, I've been work married to this guy for 15 years, right? Like you, you want to talk about really getting to know someone, there's all the surface level stuff, like I know how to order form and every type of genre food, restaurant you can imagine. But I think what's also really interesting is like when you just trust someone that much and, and it's not like we still don't debate and it's not like we still don't check each other's work. But when I know that he's going to put his all in to make sure that whatever we're doing is successful, that's the type of trust I'm talking about.

Did you start with that? How long did you know Dan before you?

We were, we were friends in college, but we weren't close. I think the big thing that really impressed me with Dan early on is that his ability to just work through and solve problems quickly was extraordinary. And for me I was just like, well, who do I want to be in the trenches with? I want to be with someone who can just work. So, so I was so impressed with his ability to consistently just solve problems and skyrocket over any type of challenge that came our way. And then it was really interesting because we both started really just leaning into each other's Strengths. And I think what's happened over the years is that we've been able to absorb a lot of each other's strengths and then being super vulnerable to your listeners because I feel like that's, that's where the real growth happens. We've gotten to a place where now we believe that we can do a lot of what the other person does and that's caused friction. So just like, like a 15 year marriage, like an actual marriage. Like we both went to like co founder counseling and that. And that was.

Yeah.

And that, Larry. Yeah, it was really good. It was, it was really, really good.

Owner counseling or something. You know what I mean? As far as a niche.

Yeah. You know, counseling. You know, I first, I.

Kudos to both of you for being willing to do it.

Thank you for saying that. It was something that we both, we both learned a lot from. But you don't always exhume the stuff that happens and calcifies over 15 years. Right. Those moments where someone might really.

It shows a maturity on both of your part that you were willing to do that. And what was the first light bulb that went on for you when you went in there?

Would you say who. How much I hurt him.

Really?

Yeah.

How did that make you feel? I feel like a TV reporter.

But anyway, like shit like. And I don't even know if I can say that word on this. Can I say that word is that we.

You just did.

Awesome.

Great.

Well, I was going to say this earlier. We were talking about grit. I was just like, man, I'm an above average shit here. Like, I am like that's. I'll take that to my grave. But no, I mean it's when you really. And I think this is something where like counseling opens up a space where people can say the things that they might otherwise not say if it's just YouTube. And I give him a lot of credit for coming prepared and with that level of honesty and I hope that he felt like I did the same. And man, we just, we unpacked some nasty stuff and we are way more effective now.

Now is that something that you feel will be useful to do on a regular basis or that was a reset and now you're good for another 10, 15 years or so?

Well, I'll tell you what, Larry, I think probably what's going to happen is we're our future is that. And most consumer product good startups. This is what happens is you become so irritating to the conglomerates that eventually you just get bought that someone, someone comes along and says you're really pissing me off. What is a number that makes you mine? So I don't know if we're going to be doing this for the next 10 to 15 years. I think also that is in congruence with our mission because there have been other mission driven companies that keep their mission intact even through acquisition. That's really exciting. And that's something that we look at and say, look, there's a pathway here where this helps solidify that this one for one thoughtful ingredient made in the USA can exist beyond just us running it. So, so that's exciting for any of your listeners who run businesses with a significant other or a family member or business partner that you've been with for a while. I encourage you to have the courage to ask your business partner if, if there's some stuff that's calcified over the years and you might, you both might not be prepared to do that alone. And that's where I think like, you don't need to go to some co founder or special counseling that's going to charge you more. Just go to a family counselor. They're prepared to deal with it. Because I guarantee you, Larry, the stuff that exists between business relationships is often the same stuff that exists between personal relationships.

Yeah. And it'll make you better, it'll make you more aware. The awareness in one relationship extends into others. So it's something that'll do you good. And one of the secrets of putting yourself through the entrepreneurial process is the fact that the improvements you want, the rough edges that get knocked off you along the way, hopefully and extends into other areas of your life in terms of enriching other areas of your life. Now, beginning with the end in mind, do you, Stephen Covey's right that you're more, you're stronger if you're beginning right off the bat. Thinking of where is this headed? If we look at a company, you're smart to think beginning, middle, and there's going to be an end. Maybe an end when I die, maybe an end of some other kind. But a successful end. What would a successful end end look like and something for. Would it be productive for you and your co owner, co founder to have those discussions and to say to yourself, okay, let's say we knock it out of the park in five or 10 years and they come in here and they give us $100 billion each and we say, well that's a little low, but we'll take it.

And then I like your style, Larry. That's wild.

Then you say we'll take 18 months to buy the yacht, tour the world, this and the other, but then let's come back and do something great again. Because either you, you say we're a great team, so let's do it again and let's. What would we do? You know, have some brainstorming about what would we like to do if we had the chance, may never get it. Would that be a productive thing for you to do in terms of lightening your. Would that complicate you? Would that make you weak or would that give you energy?

No, I think that. So Dan and I have both planned out the next couple years and what's going to happen, what we think is going to happen. I think one of the most insightful things I ever heard about business plans for startups is they become out of date the moment you hit print. And I think for most, for most things it's like, look, it's, it's good to have a plan, it's good to put in that preparation and forethought, but it's not, it's gonna go to shit. Like, it's not gonna, everything is not gonna according to what you've laid out in your 300 page booklet. But I think for us, for me, I'll be doing this till I'm dead. I, this is, I love it, specific plans.

I agree with you, but in terms of conceptual ideas, like, for like right there, you've already thought it through. You're going to be doing this one way or the other. You're going to be doing this and that. That's like saying which part of the country do I want to live in? We used to have expand, you know, expand people out around the country, opening the offices and all. And like where would you want to go? Like a trainee coming up, like if you get promoted that level, you get the opportunity where in the country you want to go. And they go like, oh, I don't know. Oh, it's like they've been never full. I said it's not that complicated. North, south, east, west, you want to go the east coast, west coast, you want to go Canada, you want to go to Florida where it's hot. And then where it always went, it always would wind up either where they grew up or where their wife grew up or where the wife grew up. Being a male or female, who you're talking to, usually it's, it's pretty simple if they thought about it. But just thinking about it can give you, make you more clear headed about your future as Ideas, because ideas go past all the time. And as you're thinking of things like how could you do this, maybe in a different form, maybe a little bit more refined, more this that the other, more to your skill set, things like that. So I was just curious of you to let yourself think, think along those lines. And the same, it sounds like you have a little bit, which is all you should do. I was just looking. Why is it a problem to look down the road? I don't know. I think it's smart to look down the road and just say be prepared.

Oh, I completely agree. Right. And, and I think one of those things that's, I think it is good. I mean, back to the Bill Gates quote, right? Like, I think most people overestimate what they can do in a year and they underestimate what they can do in 10. And that just goes to if you plan in 10 year increments and you say I don't know necessarily how all these data dots or data, all these data points on this plot chart are going to get me to where I want to go. But I know that that's the direction I want to head. And for us it's really interesting. So let's say that we get bought by a consumer focused private equity firm or a strategic or whatever it might be, there's going to be some type of earn out and then that earn out what happens then. Right. So I'm a CEO of a company that's, that's doing around 50 million in retail sales right now. We're really excited about that. We're really excited about what we're able to move into next year. We think we'll grow by anywhere from like 25 to 32% next year, which is going to be a lot of fun. But now can I be, can I grow and evolve into being a CEO of a $100 million company or a $250 million company? That sounds, that sounds really challenging and really exciting for me. Like that's something that I want to learn how to evolve and push myself into doing that. And, and I think, or it's that PE or strategic say thank you so much for your time and effort. Like we're going to go in a different direction and then I go do it again. Like that's so, so I'm open to either direction. And I think that equally, both of them are compelling. I think what's, what's interesting for me and I've been thinking a lot about this is like, what is enough, like what are the things and to me enough is when I'm around amazing people building an organization that helps other people realize their why. And for Soapbox it's really, to me that's a, that's such a straight line in terms of how it fits within my core compass. Because everyone needs access to basic hygiene, right? Like basic hygiene allows you to, from a homeless shelter perspective, it allows you to have a sense of dignity. It allows you to stay healthy. And then in the 65 countries that we work around the world, like I don't know their names and faces, but I know for a fact that we've saved lives. I know that our consumers by choosing to pick up a shampoo a couple inches down the shelf instead of buying like the major mass brand that they've legit changed lives. Because we've seen it in the data, like I know for a fact that We've seen a 92% decrease in diarrhea related illnesses over a six month study in certain provinces of India that we have worked hand in hand with Rotary International in helping them build and increase the efficacy of hygiene distribution. Right? Like, and then the other crazy thing Larry is that like we see school attendance rise because people, kids aren't home sick and then we see acute respiratory diseases drop. And like all of these things where it's just like, I don't necessarily, like, I don't know like little kid X or little girl Y. Like I don't know exactly who that our customers have saved, but I know that we have like if you just look at the statistics like 40 million times the great amount of like implementations and projects that we've done through a sustainable community driven or community driven way. Holy, Holy. Wow. Like I know that, that for effect. So in other words, like that to me is like, let's do that again, right? Like how can we build a much bigger organization that tries to solve those type of issues while at the same time creating products that people love?

Well, I think you've done a great job of giving people a picture of the satisfaction that you're getting from enriching your life that you wouldn't have expected maybe when you, you got started and serving on the boards and the thing you've done with the, the flag and the veterans and talk about now for you personally, how was this? You start off your school as a middle school teacher. You have certain limited horizons. I mean on financial, you know, and you can impact kids and make a difference and be the teacher they talk back 30 years later. He made a difference in my life. So there's a. Chances to. To impact people there. But there's very much limited on what you want to be able to do. The time discretion, income discretion where you're able to do things with you and your, you have, you know, you, you mentioned your wife. You have kids.

I am two weeks away from our newborn.

Oh, good. Congratulations. Congratulations. Do we know what it's going to be?

Little baby boy.

Oh, congratulations. Well, your life is just really getting ready to change. Yeah. I want you to think about this conversation the moment the door closes and your wife and the baby get. You picked them up at the hospital and you close that door and now it's the three of you in. In the cocoon together. It's just like somehow light bulbs go on in your mind about how life.

Is going to be different.

But how have you been able to enrich and enjoy your life as a person that from the success so far in, in the coming. Well, I started thinking how, you know, how have you been able to enrich your life, do things with you and your, your spouse and everything that you wouldn't have been able to do as a middle school teacher and in perspective of how long you've been in soapbox?

Totally. I. Well, Larry, that's a really great question. People ask me all the time, was being a teacher harder or was being an entrepreneur harder? And I would say that they're both equally hard, that they're, that they're different levels of stress. Being a teacher has a lot more physical stress, and it definitely is more. It's. It's hard like it is. I don't know if, I don't know if enough people know how difficult it is being a teacher, especially managing 30, 35 kids in a classroom, and all of them are emotional ticking time bombs in one way or another, especially middle school, because, like, the boys are. Or the boys and girls aren't using deodorant yet. So they're smelly. So they're smelly. Taking time, moms. But I think, I think what's really interesting is that money can buy you happiness, but money can buy you freedom. And that I think is. I do believe that teachers should be compensated more. I think we need to. And there's a great debate about how do we effectively measure teacher effectiveness in order to attach that pay to that. And I don't. I don't have the answer to that. Right. And I think another really interesting thing about Teacher America is you go in with all these, you think the answers, and after you do it, you just walk away and you don't know anything. Like, it's just. It's. There's so many different contradictions. And you. You're so black and white going in, and then it's just a sea of gray when you come out in terms of what are the right type of policy decisions in terms of. But there is one thing that's consistent to what we talked about that is that absolutely rings true, and that is the leadership of schools really will set the tempo and dictate the effectiveness of the school. And I got to see that firsthand because we had a phenomenal principal. But to. To go to the second part of your question, I've had way more freedom in being an entrepreneur than I would have if I stayed a teacher. That's a personal decision that I made. I took a lot more risk and thankfully it's paid off so far. But, you know, I. I would say that I don't know if I would be the leader I am today if I hadn't learned a lot of leadership by being a middle school teacher. That was so formative in so many different ways. And it's an experience. I learned trade for all the tea in China.

Yeah. It's kind of like your graduate degree in leadership and problem solving and thinking on your feet.

Oh, yeah. A thousand times over. You want to talk about failing every day? Yeah. You go teach in the inner city.

You'Re gonna get.

You're gonna get your ass handed to you day in and day out.

Wow. Well, thanks so much. This has been great. And I've already got a list of questions that we'll get into the next time we talk. But we won't overdo it this time. But thank you for your time. I'm really proud of your company, proud of you and your co founder and your approach and your mission and the fact that you stayed on track. And I think they success of it has proven that the market agrees with you. So did you. You want. You were going to give a special offer? We did our guest. Yeah, we.

We absolutely did, Larry. Yeah. So first and foremost, this has been an absolute honor. Please know there's a whole. There's a whole team that makes this happen here at Soapbox. And I often joke around that my, my job is just making sure that everyone gets coffee. So, hey, it kind of works in our benefit. It's like increased productivity through drugs. But man, I really appreciate your kind words and I'll make sure that the rest of our team really understands the weight given all that you've done and all that you've accomplished and all the amazing people that you've interviewed on this show. And speaking of which, for all your listeners that have hung in here and you're still here, we have an amazing gift for you guys. It's. It's just MDM25. Whether you're a loyal soapbox customer or this is the first time you ever heard about us, just go to Soapbox Co or you can Google Soapbox Shampoo. You'll find us. But 25% off your whole order. Thank you so much for hearing about our journey, our mission, and we look forward to you trying our amazing products.

Fantastic. And do you have a last word to send our budding entrepreneurs or our current and future million dollar earners something to help them stay on track or to keep their focus razor sharp?

100% I do. And that is grit is everything.

And you see that. You've seen that played out over and over again.

100%. I'd say a lot of this just comes down to entrepreneurship is really hard and there are some really dark days and you need to be able to believe in yourself, believe in your team and believe in that vision in order just to pick yourself up and continue to run up that hill.

Yeah. And again, thanks again. I've got a whole lot of questions to get into next time, but we.

Will see you in the next three years.

We'll save it and maybe we'll have so much growth we'll have to do it in two. So thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Larry. Bye.

Thank you for listening to the final part of this episode of the Million Dollar Mastermind podcast. Great ideas, don't care who uses. If you're motivated to move up in a big way right now, I've created a free training video to remove the mystery on how to set yourself up for big success. This is the information that has changed so many of our lives and it can have the same impact on you. And the video is completely free. You'll find it@widelonwinning.com join us, join us over there. And thanks for being part of our community.