The Five-Year Decision: How Jack McColl Built Multiple 7-Figure Businesses

I did not think my life was going to be this good. I did not think I'd be a private pilot. I didn't think I'd have as much money in crypto as I do. Didn't think I would have the real estate that I do. Didn't realize I would have the friends that I do, the awards, the opportunity to be on podcasts like this and many others. Absolutely not. And I think it just, the most important thing is starting and then not stopping. Being extremely consistent and really thinking about, okay, what if you're sitting in your life right now and you're not loving where you're sitting? Imagine yourself five years into the future and nothing changes. And thinking about how shitty you're going to be feeling if nothing changes over that five year period.

Welcome to Big Hitters. I'm Larry Wydell, and this show is for people who are done playing small. Each week we break down what it actually takes to win at a high level. The decisions and discipline, the adjustments that separate those who are almost do it from those who do it. No theory, no fluff, just straight talk from someone who spent 50 years building winners. If you're serious about momentum, you're in the right place.

Let's get into it.

Hello, everyone.

We're talking with Jack McCall. Hello, Jack.

Larry. Great to be here, man. Pleasure.

And it's going to be fun talking to you about winning because of what you've done. You've learned some things in a niche that a lot of people need to know about. And I'm going to let you describe it, but how big is your business up to this point? Just kind of get people to sit up and pay attention here. How big have you built this thing? How many employees, how many people you work with? And, you know, just to kind of give a quick overview.

Yeah. Awesome, Larry, Good to be here. Thanks for having me. So my business is credit stacking. I have a few different online businesses that help people get, get access to credit. 0% interest business credit revenue wise. I think that's what you're asking. We've done just shy of $18 million. We have a team of 30 people, not all Americans, but a team of about 30 people. 18 million bucks since 2020. And yeah, I love what I do. I'm super passionate because I, I'm very pro freedom. I'm very, I, I like to help people create a life of freedom. I've c. I've created certain freedoms in my life and, and I like to show people on how exactly I did that. And One of the biggest needle movers for me was understanding the best ways to get access to capital, to use that capital into my business and different investments.

Okay, let's, let's talk about that freedom word. How did that become such a big thing in your life and how do you see it? Because when we talk to entrepreneurs, they need to have it really clear in their mind what they're getting out of it. Too much of the time they're thinking about only the money. But I mean, it's incredibly rewarding to live your life where someone is, you're not under somebody's thumb, you know, and you don't have to ask permission to do things. So talk about freedom for a minute.

Yeah, freedom is really important to me. And I think the first two examples of where I saw freedom in my life was quite young. My dad was an entrepreneur, small business owner. He's a software programmer for auto body shops. He never built a team, didn't scale his company super big by any means, but he made just enough money to be comfortable, to get out of the rat race, to have time freedom with his family so he can go on a couple vacations a year, down to Mexico, more on a ski trip, things like that. Just a couple a year. And so I saw the time freedom that having a business did in his life so he can spend time with his family and go on cool trips, so we can go snowboard and go down to Mexico every year pretty much. And so that time freedom really inspired me. And I thought, okay, if I started a business like my dad, I can have certain time freedoms in my life. And then basically the deal was in high school I would get certain freedoms in my life if I got good grades. I crushed it in school, got good grades and I could go do these certain things like go to the skate park or go hang out with my friends late, things like that. And so I always loved having the freedom to do things that I wanted. And then really when it got down to it through all through my 20s, I'm 32 right now, is I just found the, the easiest. Well, actually not the easiest, but the most sure bet of creating a life of freedom was doing it through business. Like right now I moved to Utah. My philosophy recently has been less concrete the better. So I'm kind of in nature here, away from the city. I just became a private pilot. I bought an airplane last year that I've been flying around a few of the states around here. And I just don't like, I don't like to be working for other people. I don't like other people telling me what to do. And I also like to be able to, you know, provide for my loved ones and be there for them to. To really make sure that we're protected, we're safe, you know, collectively as a unit. My friends, my family, you know, we can do things that we want to do. And it's taken a long time to get to this point. You know, business is very difficult, and I struggled many years in business, but, you know, if you do something long enough and you fight hard enough, you know you will win at the end. And I just knew that freedom is what I wanted the most, that freedom and security. And so that helped me get through any challenges that I was going through.

Did your dad talk about that or did you just observe that he had that. Was that a thing for him?

I think more so. I observed it. There may have been, you know, through my childhood, where I don't exactly remember certain things.

Maybe your friends and par. You know, neighbor, people you grew up with, they couldn't take off and go when you were going on your vacations or something.

You. Yeah, I did remember, like, we went to Mexico every. The first week of January every year, because they had a timeshare. And I was, you know, it was. I was an outlier of the kid that went on a family trip to Mexico. And then I would come back and I would share photos, and it was like a cool thing, but it was definitely an outlier situation. It. It felt like. And so I think it was just mainly through observation. My dad did kind of guide me, inspired me verbally to get a business degree, to take the advanced classes, things like that, but not like a crazy amount of pressure. But I was more so inspired by what he did for his family and his time. Freedom. And I knew I wanted that as well. And he was definitely a bit against the grain. You know, if there was like a little fence that says, don't cross this to take a photo, you know, sometimes we would cross it to take a photo, things like that. And so I do think in general, in life, if you want unconventional results, sometimes you need. Actually, most times you need unconventional efforts to get to those unconventional results. And being a top, top 1% earner for, you know, between age 25 and 34, you only need to make $260,000 a year to be a 1% earner. I'm pretty. I looked at the data, and it.

Actually, it's amazing how it depends on what state you're in or whatever, but it's amazing how small it is.

I almost didn't believe it. I checked it. And if you make in Arizona, exactly at age 25 to 34, if you make 140,000 a year, you're in a top five earner. And if you reverse engineer that, okay, that's making 11,666 bucks a month to be able to 5% earner. Okay. So it's really, it's, it's, it's hard to get to, but when you think about it, it's not that much money to be way ahead of the pack.

Yeah. And again, making money is hard, but, you know, you know what's hard? Not having money. And so I think some of, you know, I think if you want to go find somebody to write time management books and money management books, go into the people that are making average income, because I don't know how these people, you know, no offense, but I don't know how people survive, you know, you know, you gotta ask yourself what you're putting yourself through to hit that budget. And they said, you know, people need to recognize if you're living on that.

Right.

You're a dad, gum good money manager and time manager to be able to have time for the kids and this, that, the other, you know, you're pretty dirt efficient in how you go. Pretty disciplined too. You know, those are the people that should be writing the books on discipline. But if the way people like me and you look at it is like. And I came to this conclusion when I was 17 years old in high school and doing all these, you know, labor jobs and busing tables, you know, on the weekends, at night at the restaurants and doing, you know, lugging bricks and roofing around, you know, at construction sites in the hot sun and being yelled at by idiots who were supposed to be your managers. And you got the worst treatment, the worst income. And it's really good because it helped me make up my mind, though. No matter what it took, and I didn't know what it was going to take, I was going to do whatever it took so I didn't have to live my life that way. Whatever I was going to be at, I was going to be at the upper end of it. And it really doesn't take that much extra. It is work, it is hard, but it ain't that much harder than living your life and that gray area of mediocrity. Folks, come on. If you're listening to this podcast, make a darn decision about yourself. Do you really want to go for the Next five or ten years like that, set a course that at least gives you the potential of having something wonderful happen to you. Because winning, I call it the wonderful world of winning. And that's where you have some kind of control over your life and you're making. You don't have to become a trillionaire. But the thing is, you can make positive things happen in your life, even if it's only being able to go take the family on a vacation to your timeshare in Mexico every first week of January. It can be little things, but at least it's your thing. And so where you got in that, you saw that. How did you come to the conclusion? You know, I wish I had the light bulb go on, but I was more into art and sports and, you know, music and things like that. Unfortunately, well, probably fortunately, I didn't have anybody I could see that would show me a career path in that. But I was slow to realize business was where really, you know, the rewards and the fun is. And what finally tripped the switch for me was when the light bulb went on. Like, business is competition, business is sports. It's like, okay, all right, you know, now I can get into business. But where did you have that. That epiphany? You know, that. That thing where you said, if I'm going to have the life I want, I got. I got to get into business.

Now, that's a really good point you mentioned, Larry. And I think something similar happened to me. This was right when I. After I graduated college. In college, I was a really good snowboarder. I was competing in professional competitions. I was doing really good. And then I injured my shoulder, and that really set me back. And then during that injury period, I was like, thinking, like, hey, what am I doing with my life? I just got a business degree. I didn't really take any impactful internships. I didn't have any jobs lined up. Actually, at that time, graduated from college, I was working minimum wage at the snowboard resort at Steven Pass in Washington, trying to be a, you know, snowboarder. Making money, that's very hard to do. But then at that time, then I shifted into business. Actually, it took a job. I was doing videography and marketing for this app company, and I met someone within that organization that was selling these hoverboards. And then. So we ended up getting into business together. And then that was my first real business venture, like selling something. Um, and I had a similar epiphany, as you just mentioned. It's. You know, prior to that, I was really Big in the sports, super competitive with mainly extreme sports, snowboarding primarily. And then I got into business and I started to make some money. We would run ads and then see our, our ad spend turn into dollars in our bank account. And I'm like, wow, this is competitive. We're making money. I can actually, you know, do more things with this money instead of being broke and trying to snowboard. So that's really where things shifted for me. And then realizing, you know, the, the more you can impact positively other people through a product or service, the more money you're generally going to make. And so I just became, you know, fascinated with business more than ever before and became addicted to it, on building something of value to others where you can be compensated for it. And it's going to add, you know, add money to your bank account, make you feel better, and then you can use that money into your next business or whatever it may be. And even like right now, you know, September 2025, you know, there's a lot of crazy things happening. And even more than ever, I'm going to be even like, I've been very intentional with my time in terms of acquiring resources, in terms of gaining skills. But more than ever, I'm going to be even more intentional. You know, I don't understand how some people get bored when they're, you know, screwing around and not doing things productive for themselves, for their business, for their community, for their family, for their future kids, whatever it may be. It's time to buckle down. And I've been buckled down, but I am going to be even more laser focused on everything.

Well, there's a light bulb that needs to go on with, you know, people in their, you know, where for them to break out of that mole. And it's the idea of understanding the difference between, you know, pleasure and accomplishment. You know, and if you act, if you're chasing short term pleasure, you know, it's like it is fun to eat donuts and cake and you know, all that kind of, it's great, tastes wonderful, but then now you gotta deal with the residue. You know, the after effects are not that great. But it's also rewarding to go out there and do something positive, have a success. You know, you go out there and you do something for the community or you go. Even in business, you know, you launch a product, launch a business and you know, there's, there's some fun from that, solving problems, making new friends, getting some training you didn't have. But the deal is the payoff for that, you know, you spend the same amount of time, but the payoff goes for the rest of your life. And so let me point out to you, like when you. Let's just say you were at the. You had your injury with a snowboard and, you know, you're working, you know, minimum wage and all that. How. What age were you?

I was 21.

21. So now you're 32. So like 11 years later, right? Get a load of this, though, Jack. 11 years. And you know, it's been tough in the up and downs of this, but here's. Here's what you got to look forward to the rest of your life, Jack, because what you have done, you can go snowboard anywhere in the world, anytime you want, as much as you want, with whoever you want. And snowboarding is not out of your life. You can still do the snowboarding if that's what you want to do. Or you might have other riches, but you have created the opportunity for you to have the thrill of the snowboarding, maybe not the competitive thing, but to be able to enjoy what you want to enjoy the rest of your stinking life because you took a block of time and we're intentional about it. And then also in the business side, because if you look back and you catalog all the skills that you accumulated in business in the last 11 years, all of the contacts that you have made, all of the experiences, you know, good, bad, indifferent, and you have all. And that network of contacts, you know, and you have positioned yourself over the next 11 years, if you choose to get intentional and just go out there and see how big you can build it and how much fun you can have, how much of an impact you can have. I mean, you set yourself up to have at least 10, 25 or more times more impact over the next 10 years and 10 times more fun. And so it's, you know, that foundational years. You know, when you're going through it, folks, don't be thinking about the price I'm paid and everything. It's like I'm getting stuff that I'm going to be able to use the rest of my life. And, you know, I'm opening up the doors to opportunities that I can't even imagine now. But if, Let me just say this. I'm going to get you the chance to speak to them that are out there on the verge of trying to make a decision if they're going to be intentional and lock in. Did you imagine it was going to be just where you are right now and the possibilities you have right now Would you say that 11 years that you put in 11 years ago, did you have any idea it was going to be this good?

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No, I did not think my life was going to be this good. I did not think I'd be a private pilot. I didn't think I'd have as much money in crypto as I do. Didn't think I would have the real estate that I do. Didn't realize I would have the friends that I do, the awards, the opportunity to be on podcasts like this and many others. Absolutely not. And I think it just, the most important thing is starting and then not stopping, being extremely consistent and really thinking about, okay, what if you're sitting in your life right now and you're not loving where you're sitting. Imagine yourself five years into the future and nothing changes. And thinking about how shitty you're going to be feeling if nothing changes over that five year period. It takes a lot of input to get a massive change in your life and things like maybe just, you know, quit drinking altogether. Usually it's a, generally a waste, waste of time. Most times I'd say, you know, quit that. Go take care of your health and body so you mentally and physically you're feeling much better. So you can show up and put in the work to actually make a difference with your efforts in your business or investments. In the evenings, make sure you're, you're joining mentorship programs or you're studying on YouTube but like you're applying yourself to learning specific skills. Something for me that's been a game changer is I just Became fascinated with becoming experts at several different skills and topics. So like tax strategy, credit card points, business funding, buying real estate via subject to. I find these concepts and I just became fascinated with learning them. And then, you know, take. And those. Learning those things, it takes me to the next level because I have more skills.

Yeah. And the skills and the training open up opportunities that you didn't even know you. You couldn't recognize because you know he was speaking a foreign language as as much if you. Someone had come and talked to you about it early on, it would have gone right over your head.

But it wouldn't have.

There was nothing there for it to stick to. You know. And so let's go through that transition you went through. So you're out there and how do you go through a transition where you're positioned to make minimum wage and snub or some on the weekend and then you transition to where you're running a business. What's your mental transition? The things you did, you started checking out, spending time on. And I will tell people that if you've been a competitive snowboarder, you've learned discipline, you've learned how to compete, you've learned how to handle anxiety and perform in the clutch when the pressure's off. So there's a lot of skills that you probably hadn't really valued, that you had accumulated, that you probably have drawn on and the seceding years. But you didn't have the business thing. So how did you go through that transition and to get in position to where you could take your energy and take your past experiences and skill set and put it to work for yourself?

Yeah. I mean, I think a pivotal moment was when my business partner, he had a job working with Yik Yak. I had a service where I was doing videography. Videography production. And he's like, if I quit my job, will you move to Los Angeles with me? Because he was in Florida. We wanted to meet up. Would you move to Los Angeles with me so we can focus on this full time? And I was like, I think so, yes. And he's like, jack, I'm gonna need more than a. I think so. I'm about to go into the job and either quit or not quit. And then I. I think I was like, yeah, let's do it. So it was like it was committing. He quit his job. I basically stopped my efforts on the video production service I was doing. We both moved to Los Angeles. Both of us stayed in a one bedroom studio. It was a Murphy bed. And then one of Us was on an air mattress and we switched like every week or every two weeks or something. And so it was just really committing, making a decision to commit and then basically putting our backs against the wall. You know, it wasn't fun, wasn't ideal, but we moved across the country to meet up with each other. And then we, at that point, at that point we put 5,000 bucks, it's like basically all the money I had into a bank account. So we had 10,000 bucks together and we started this business and it was the only thing we did. We worked all day, went to the gym in the evening, worked all day, gym in the evening, every day for at least the first month, I remember vividly. And then things probably got a little bit easier, but it was full commitment. It's not half assing it. And you know, building the business on the side for 15 years, you know, at some point you have to commit.

Well, you know, you remind me of, sounds like Mike Bloomberg, one of the richest guys in the world. You know, he was, he was even mayor of New York City. He tells the story when he started, he had a 200 square foot room in New York City. That's that. And I think he had to share it with somebody. But you know, it's like the humble beginnings. You're not going to be screwing around the apartment, watching tv, you're living in a closet, you know, you got to get out and do something. It's a good thing. So what was your business idea that you guys were going to push at that point?

At that point it was selling these hoverboards, these self balancing two wheel scooters basically. And we knew it was going to be a hot product. It was starting to catch on. My partner at the time was already importing very small batches of 10 to the states. And then we realized we'd be more, more powerful together. So we got 50, 50 on it. And then we started selling these hoverboards through Facebook ads. And we've never ran a Facebook ad before. We just kind of slowly figured it out. And then we partnered up with social media influencers so they can post it on their social media. And then, you know, I remember every sale it was like yes, yes. And then you know, every day it was like a little bit more sales. But I is, I remember that vividly, you know, every sale because so much effort went into each sale and then slowly it started to compound. But ultimately we were selling products online.

Describe the resistance that you ran into early on because that's what people are going to run into and then how you dealt with it, how you made your adjustments.

Yeah, I mean one thing that comes to mind when you said that and my partner at the time, Jared Goetz, who's done great things in E commerce, he was three years older than me, which was a big advantage for me because I, I, it expedited my learning. So I just remember there's some meetings and some, you know, just meetings. I was like a sponge in, on some topics. Like I was definitely the, the dumbest in the room on, on several occasions, just learning as much as possible. And I think when you, I sometimes today I still feel like that a lot of times I go to these different high level mastermind business events and a lot of times I'll feel like, you know, I'm the one of the more uneducated ones in the room and I think those are the better rooms that, to put yourself into because it means you're surrounded by people who are a few steps ahead of you. So back then I really felt like that a lot and I just learned a lot. So we, so the point is I was putting myself in many different uncomfortable settings and because of that it expedited my growth.

Yeah, the thing I just, it's funny you said that just earlier today, listened to a little bit of a podcast from a girl that she was the number one, she was the, the number one person in taking Stephen Bartlett Diary of a CEO from scratch to second biggest podcast in the world or something according to them. But the reason she said she's just left to go out and do her own thing and she doesn't even know what that's going to be. And that's why it was an interestingly useless podcast because she had no specific ideas because she was just talking about, you know, why she left and what she was going to be doing, which she had no idea what she was.

Going to be doing.

So it was basically a chit chat thing. But the interesting thing was why she left and the reason she said at 27, she just turned 28 and I apologize for not getting your name. We'll try and put that in the show notes. But she said I got, you know, because she started young and they grew up. She said, I got to the point where I was doing all the teaching. She said, it dawned on me, wait a minute, you're already doing all the teaching? What are you going to be learning at 27 years old? You got to get yourself out of here in your own thing to where you can start learning again. And yeah. And so that's. She said, I don't even know what I'm going to do. I don't even want to, but I know that I want to. Don't want to stay there and just keep teaching the stuff I already know and helping somebody else grow their business. You know, if I'm going to continue to develop, I got to put myself in a different position. And that's uncomfortable.

100%. And I remember. So I built my third real business venture, was a travel business. We organized Cabo spring break trips for university students. We, my brother and I sold that company to our competitor and ended up working for that competitor who bought us. And we worked for them for a year and a half. I remember after a year, like, we. We learned so much in that year. You know, big company growing. They reached, I think, $20 million. Awesome team. Learned a lot. But after 12 months, it started to feel quite repetitive. And so that was the cue for us. Just like the woman you were talking about. It's like, if you're not learning in that opportunity, then, you know, what are you doing? You know, long term? You know, it's like, you gotta keep developing, keep putting yourself in a position where you're getting pushed so you're. You're learning as much as possible. So that was the cue for us. Let's get out of this. We didn't have a plan either. My brother and I, we moved to Bali, Indonesia, and we ended up doing Airbnb arbitrage. But same to your exact point, we weren't learning anymore. We didn't have a plan, but we knew we wanted to do something else.

Well, let me make a statement. Now, you could tell me if you agree or disagree, but I think I need to put something on the table for all of us. Everybody feels insecure about when we get out of our company, we get into a new group or whatever. You always feel insecure because first time there. But I think we ought to cut ourselves some slack, because I've been doing what I've been doing for a long time, morning, noon, and night. Yet I'm kind of like a doctor in the sense that doctors are amazingly stupid about everything except what they do every day, because the world of medicine is so incredibly complex. A decade ago, a doctor friend of mine told me, he said so much new stuff comes out in a year that he said that if I spent an hour every day reading all the new stuff that's come out, he said, at the end of the year, I'll be 40 years behind that's just for that one year.

Wow. Interesting.

So, in a sense, we need to cut the doctors a little more slack because it's such a complex world that they operate in. But for me and you, I mean, I could take as much as I know about everything, you know, because I've just been exposed to so many different things over the years. It's just, you put me in a mastermind group. You probably take the top 25 mastermind groups going in the country and stick me in there, and I'll probably feel like the dumbest guy in the room because I haven't been in with those guys. You know, they're in a different niche of business. They've got different experiences and everything. But the thing is, if you get in there, you can start learning and then you find out, you can start make a contribution, because I would imagine as you got more comfortable in those environments, you started making a contribution based off what your past experiences are. And they were glad to have you in the room, you know, and I doubt they. They said, this guy asked so many stupid questions. Can we get rid of him? No. You know, I think you probably got to the point pretty quick where you carried your weight. And I think that I just wanted to say that for entrepreneurs, it's great to go to these, you know, entrepreneur groups. You know, do you get where maybe you're a speaker at an event and then you're backstage with a bunch of them and you feel like, I don't belong here, you know, imposter syndrome type thing. But, you know, give yourself. Cut yourself a little slack, you know, I'm saying if you've been. If you've been out of business, you made anything happen, you've got something to offer. And the fact that you don't know everything, let me tell you, the rest of your life, you'll never know everything either. So. And none of the other guys there know everything either, or the ladies there. So cut yourself a little slack if you feel awkward. And if you're around a bunch of people that are supposedly gurus and any. If anybody makes you feel that way, they're probably an asshole anyway, and you probably don't want to be there anyway, 100%.

And the fact that you're going to these events is a big deal. Like, not many people do it, right? So. And generally, people are very accepting to that. Like, if you're making effort, you're paying money, most likely you're taking the time to show up to a specific event or. Or a group to learn. Try to Contribute, et cetera. You know, that's recepted very well from my experience on the many events that I've gone to.

What I find, Jack, is that the myth about big shots, you know, winners. I'll tell you a funny thing. The first book I was going to write when I was, I was shut down because of a health issue and I couldn't get off the couch. I said, I'm going to write a book, Top 10 Myths About Winners. And I had it all written out there. And one of the myths was that everybody thinks they had to lie, cheat and steal to get to the top, you know, but so I wrote this all up and I handed it out to a bunch of my friends and they said, this is really interesting. Why don't you give it to get a ghostwriter involved and write a real book, you know, it's like. So the. That was the end. That was the end of that book. But a backhanded compliment. Thanks. Thanks for the encouragement, guys. But it got me thinking about how people misconstrue winners. You know, when you're in the out, it's easy to vilify somebody. You know, it's like all those guys, I don't want to be like them, you know. You know, I'm too honest to be. No, you're too lazy. And the thing is, people that work their way to the top most of the time have had so many failures, half of which are self inflicted, that they've got some humility about them. Plus they've also had to build a team and they've had to learn how to get along with people and realize you can't yell at everybody all the time. You run them off and you've got to cut them some slack. And if you bring people in, you've got to give them room to make mistakes. Just like you had to give yourself some slack to learn, make mistakes and improve that. That's part of development. But you've gone through these things and you most, most of the top people are kind of fun to be around, you know, and you know, they, you know, they enjoy life and they'll cut you some slack, but it's not. If you run into someone who's not like that, chances are that's not somebody you're going to learn a whole lot from anyway. And don't worry about them. Gravitate to the ones that are going to be open because that's where you can learn. And so as you made that transition, talk some more about that transition where you started moving now looking at different businesses, but also you started thinking about how you could position yourself to build something of your own.

Yeah. And I think when you're so tied up at a job, for example, and then in the evening comes, you gotta hit the gym, you know, hang out your family, whatever it may be like, days are pretty short. And so sometimes, I mean, when you. When you're gonna make a transition, you need the mental clarity to figure out what those next steps are. And so in my scenario, I saved up some money, the money that I was making and some from the acquisition. I was. And I was frugal. I was. Wasn't spending much money. I was saving it. So I had a cushion. So I knew, like, okay, in six months, I'll probably quit this job and I'll have a cushion to fall on, you know, a Runway of money that will help me get to the next opportunity. So I was kind of forecasting this quit, and then I was smart with my money, et cetera. But then once I quit, then I had like the. Just the mental. More mental capacity and clarity to think about what that next move is. And then I was thinking, like, what do I want to do? Where do I want to be? What kind of business or service do I want to start now, or do I want to get another job? You know, for some people, you know, through business, through different employment experience, you know, you're. You're generating skills through different jobs. So, you know, you can do four jobs leading up to then starting your business, and each of those jobs will give you or develop certain skills. Like, if you want to get really good at sales, go sell someone else's offer, and then you can start your own offer, and then you sell for your own offer. So try to think, like, if you're going into a working opportunity, try to think, hey, what are you looking to gain? Of course, you're trying to most likely earn a reasonable wage, but what skills can you get from that employment opportunity? So again, to loop it back to my story at that point, at that time, I was like, I want to go live in Bali, Indonesia. I think I was 25, 26, a Bali, know, a bit younger. I think this is a cool time to do that in my life. I probably won't. I probably won't want to when I get older, so let me do it right now. And then we. We able to get into Airbnb Arbitrage, where we use some of our money to rent some villas on a long term, yearly basis and then rent them out short on. On Airbnb. Shortly after that, Covid completely wiped out that business. So we had to do something else. And then at that point, we're thinking, what would be the most lucrative industries during this world breakout in 2020? And for us, my brother and I, that was E commerce and consulting. So we got into E commerce and then got into consulting. So, you know, things happen in business and you gotta adjust and, you know, go. You know, I would say go with the flow, but sometimes you have to make pivots based on certain events that are happening.

Well, that's a great break point for us for the public part of the podcast, because the next six years in your life have been, I mean, you've written best selling book, you've launched several multiple seven figure businesses. You've had, you know, you've got, you've had all kind of accomplishments. And so I want to get into that. But before we go, what to wrap up this portion of what we've been talking about so far, how would you summarize it? What kind of takeaway would you give for the people who've been listening to us so far?

I think everyone should define what their definition of freedom is. What kind of freedom do you want to create in your life and how do you reverse engineer that, chunk it down and make sure you build those freedoms in your life? For me, it's getting out of the city, being able to fly my own airplane and, you know, have some farmland, have some animals, you know, soon, et cetera. I don't want to go to an office. You know, I defined freedom for myself and then I took actionable steps to make that a reality in my life. And you have to commit and you have to be consistent. It's very difficult at times, but it is so worth it. So make it happen.

All right, thanks so much, Jack. This has been incredible. A lot of fun and looking forward to seeing how your, your business continues to grow. If they want to follow up more with you, what's the best place to go?

Yeah, my Instagram or YouTube? Instagram. Jack McCall McCol. Same thing on YouTube. Go shoot me a follow on Instagram. Check me out on YouTube.

All right, thanks so much.

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