The Tough Conversations Entrepreneurs Have with COO of ZeroBounce Brian Minick

Welcome to this episode of the Million Dollar Mastermind.

I'm Larry Weddell.

And before we get started, if you want to know exactly how to win again and Again, go to wydellonwinning.comwebinar now to watch something I've put together for you. Now let's get going into this episode.

Of Million Dollar Mastermind. I am here this afternoon with Brian Minick from Boca Raton, Florida. And he's got a global company in the email business services, and he's a chief operating officer at Zero Bounce, helping people get their emails delivered and then tracking them and those kind of things. And in four years, this company has exploded to 100,000 thousand paying companies, customers in every country in the world. So, Brian, welcome back. And tell me, how did you wind up in this niche of business? How can you trace that back? Growing up, was there any indicators that you would be in this kind of situation?

Yes, and thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. My father was an entrepreneur, and so I remember as a little kid always hearing these, these tough conversations he'd have and the, you know, driving a business in a certain direction. And I heard the passion. And so it was something that kind of was instilled with me as a kid. But as I continued to evolve in my career, I was just, I was always curious and I think people don't react enough or execute on their curiosity enough. So, you know, when I first was coming up, I wanted to be a mechanic. I loved race cars. I loved racing. I like doing, you know, stupid things and they were fun and they provided lots of thrill. And I actually got grounded and turned into, well, what am I going to do in the house? You know, I was a kid, so I started programming. I was, I think, 10 years old and I started programming on my mom's computer that I did not really know how to use and just started figuring things out. And here you go. Now I'm just heavily involved with tech. I have a bachelor in science for Computer Information Systems. And, you know, it was all because I was curious. I followed curiosity. And curiosity has brought me to, to where I am today is really the truth.

And talk about, you know, one of the things that I've always advised people to do and I was advised this coming up is follow your natural curiosity because there's a reason certain things are more interesting to you than other people, you know, and if that curiosity is related to what's inside you and the whole, for all of us to be great, we've got to not pour ourselves In a mold somebody else has for us or an idea we have of what we're supposed to be, but to let ourselves emerge and grow in. Out of what's actually inside of us. And your Geiger counter on that is your curiosity. But so much of schooling and, you know, even jobs that people get beats that curiosity down. And I know when our boys were growing up, I just, we, we had like, I didn't want. We wanted to create an environment where they were protected, where they couldn't tear things up, but where we didn't have to tell them no a whole lot. You know, I wanted to encourage that natural curiosity and expose them to a lot of things. And how did you even think of the word coding at 10 years old? And the concept of I'm going to code? I mean, you know, that thought would have never occurred to me.

Yeah, so. So a long time ago, I used to be able to get free music on the online. That was kind of how it started for me. And so I was finding free music and I was like, that's cool. And I started, you know, I started to get very curious how I got it. And I was like, how is this actually working? Like, how. How am I. I'm asking a robot to send me a song and then two seconds later the robot sent me the song. I mean, I'm a 10 year old, right? I'm 10, 11 maybe. I was super curious. And so I was like, all right, let's pull back the covers here. What's going on? And so that turned into, oh, well, here's Visual Basic, which is a. Just an older programming language and program to help you code. So I started grabbing stuff from there and looking at other projects that people built and just started dissecting things. And literally within. I was grounded for probably a month. I don't even remember what I did. I actually wish I did. It would complete the story better. But so I just took it and just started getting very curious. And then I got grounded from the computer because I was on it too much. So, you know, it's just, just pure curiosity and just followed it into, you know, what turned into be a career and a passion. But I think the biggest thing was I'm very big in analytics and data and I like to know how and why things work. And that's why I'm very good with systems today. But I was just so curious, like I wanted to know how it worked. I just started ripping everything apart and breaking everything and then fixing it. And that's when you get good.

How did you get the. Where do you think you got the idea? You know, you talked about tough conversations. Oh, you know, your dad was an entrepreneur from those conversations. Usually tough conversations come because you got problems, you don't have the results you want and you're not having it. You're going to change things, you're going to deal with it. You're going to change people, change products, change locations, change whatever. But there's tough conversations come before decisions and adjustments are made. And that springs from an expectation of success. And so where did you, you know, this idea of competition, analyzing things. How did you. Did you go to. Did you get a degree in that? When did that start to form in your mind that there would be a. Because I. I can see coming up back then, it'd be hard to imagine that turning into a career path other than, you know, just some kind of engineering job.

Sure, sure. So just to add some more color to it, my father owned printing companies, printing presses and big web presses. And so, you know, he had a. And he was quite older for a father. He's almost 50 years older than me. So, you know, so he's been around the block. Right. And he, he failed plenty of times and then found success as well. But I actually was kind of steered away, kind of tying into the conversation that you were having about your kids and pushing them into their own curiosity. My parents actually scared me away because in the, in the 90s, there was. Computers weren't really the thing yet. It didn't really. It was starting to take off. It was starting to pick up, but it wasn't the thing. It just wasn't. So. Oh, that's not a career. You can't take that path. There's nothing there for you. Okay. So I just continued upon life and really just had fun. I went to high school and barely made it through and just enjoyed the things as a kid. And then I was like, well, what are you going to go do? I'm like, well, I still want to be a mechanic. I'm a big guy. I'm 6 foot 4, 250 pounds. I'm a big guy. And I said, well, I guess you don't want to back. You know, you're gonna have a broken back by the time you're 50. Like, that's probably true. I got big hands too. I don't fit in tight places. So I was like, all right, gets back to the drawing board. And I actually ended up meeting with a software developer, coincidentally, and started talking with him. And he kind of encouraged me to Take the path that was always lingering in my head. And I did. And that's kind of how it took off. And then I got into a really good university and completely cranked through their program for computer information systems and was really way ahead of where everyone else was because I started so young and I just kind of kept it as a hobby. I never let it go. So from 10 to 20, I'm still over here doing what I'm doing. I just didn't think there was money in it. I didn't think there was a career. I just thought it was like I can accomplish what I want or what I want to do. So that's really how it kind of took off. And from there is when you start polishing things and you start learning more things, getting more into a business sense. But that's how I got there.

It's a different kind of nuts and bolts than being a mechanic, that's for sure. When I was younger, every time the relatives would get together, a bunch of mechanics and farmers and appliance repairmen and all. But you know, the holidays when everybody got together after the dinner, you know, it wasn't. They weren't a big football, sports, family at that point. They were like work on the cars. So somebody always had a problem with their car who drove up to these things. And it was just a matter of time after the meal where everybody had their head under the hood of a car fixing it. But that was like a role model, you know, that's kind of like some people grow up and they've got. Everybody plays a musical instrument. And after the. You get through eating and everything, everybody goes in, picks up a guitar, banjo, and they start singing. And, you know, the world I grew up in was, you know, fixing stuff. And so when I'm in high school, I got this idea. You know, my father's in the air force, so he was. He wasn't one of the mechanic guys. So I got this idea of. I used to read a lot of magazines like Mail Order. There was a mail order course to become a mechanic, if you can believe it.

And does it come with a 10 millimeter?

Yeah, I think it didn't come with anything, but. So I actually filled out the form and was at the mailbox, going to drop that order form in the mailbox to order it because snail mail, of course. And right at that moment, clarity came to me. The heavens opened, the angel sang. And I realized if you learn how to fix cars anytime in the future and something goes wrong, this is before we knew the Computers were going to come along and make it very complicated, but it's like, you know, you're always going to be caught one of the guys who could be called on to fix somebody's car. And you know, I think I'd rather be doing something else. So I just took that envelope, tore it up and that was the end of my mechanic career. And it does pay you well to choose your path carefully. And some of the, it's great when it aligns with an emerging.

Business technology.

Direction of the economy like the computer business, because you just hit a gold mine because what you were interested in, with a little shifting back and forth, you got on a path where there is not a better place or a better thing for, for you to be, place for you to be in industry right now rather than coding software and providing these kind of services. Would you agree with that?

Hey, listen, there's a lot of information online, but there aren't a lot of people who have actually done something. In my case, I've actually built a successful business as accrued over 5 billion.

In assets under management and has done.

Well even during trying times. Now if you want to know exactly how I've done this, go to Whiteellumwinning.com webinar Now I've compressed a decade of learning into five short weeks. Just for those of you who want to give yourself an incredible advantage and are tired of waiting and watching others move up.

Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. I still miss the mechanic days. I still like to turn a wrench, I'm not gonna lie. But yes, for sure. You know what I found was the difference between a hobby and a passion. That's actually what came to realization for me. And passion was much stronger than the hobby.

When did it come to you and how did it come to you that as much as you enjoyed the programming and the computer science and getting your stuff in front of the computer and writing this code and figuring these things out yourself that you could grow faster if you focused on building and running a team and making sure that team was set up for success with successful systems and support pieces.

Yeah, so early in my career I was, I actually started a company that built websites for floor covering retailers. There was five people, I was 22 years old. Everyone else was in their 50s and 60s. And they said, Brian, what are we going to do? And I started talking, we started talking about it and we said, we're going to build websites for floor covering retailers. This was in the probably 2008, 2009, 2010, where that wasn't a thing. Small businesses didn't have websites yet, or they were just starting to. So, you know, I just kind of. What happened was. And where the pivot point in my career came was the pressure and the amount of weight on my shoulders. Being the only guy essentially pulling the curtains and, you know, hitting the switches. It was too much. It was overbearing. Vacation did not exist. Personal life did not exist. Now, I don't regret any of it because I think it's part of why, you know, where I am now is because of it. But it came to a realization that, yes, I'm very good by myself, but, man, if I just had, like, 10 other people, we could do a lot more and the stress would be different and, you know, I could get through it. And that's really. Actually, I kind of moved outside of the programming world and moved into the people world. And that's where I think I really have that unique twist, which is having an idea of how everything works. Like, I understand the wiring. I understand how it all works, but getting the people to actually build the wires, right, and connect everything and solder them is where I started to pivot my career. And so it was just overbearing trying to do everything by yourself. You know, you're trying to act as a superhero. And I accomplished it, but really beat myself up along the way. Helped build this company from the ground up. All the pressure was on my shoulders to keep the platform and everything running. I was probably three or four years in. It's when it really started to at least hit me. I'd say I took action around five or six and, you know, year five and six and said, you know, something's just gotta change. This isn't where I want to be for the rest of my life is with this amount of kind of stress and pressure on my shoulders. And I actually just found I really liked people. And when you get really deep into coding, you're the guy that's behind the scenes, you know, and it's not that I wanted any special attention, but I missed the aspect of dealing with lots of people. And so that's when I started to pivot into the operations side of tech companies. And that's. That's really where I was able to, you know, get out of first or second gear and start to get into a higher speed. And so that's when things really started to take off for me. And, well, they will accomplish great things.

That was the. That's a great. The great way of saying it's kind of like we all have 24 hours in the day. And the way you launch anything has to be, or it usually has to be, unless you're bringing a bunch of people from a previous adventure. In the beginning, you're the one armed bandit. You know, you're the like. And coaches have this. When they start, they get their first head coaching job. You know, they go in, they got to hire the secretary, they got to hire the trainer, they got to hire everybody, you know, all the other coaches. It's step by step. You start to build a team. But there's only 24 hours in the day. And coding, it seemed like that would be a particularly tricky thing to extricate yourself out of, because to do coding, you have to have total peace and quiet. You can't be interrupted. People can't be. You know, you can't. You got to go into a zone. And it's. To me, it's not complicated, but it is specific. When I've looked at coding, you know, it's very specific. Lots of simple things stacked in exact ways on top of each other when you're writing the code. And if someone comes in and you're getting interrupted, a lot of this stuff you have to carry in your head, you know, and. And so for you to get out of that. But for those of y' all listening, how does this apply at. If you don't shift and start adding some other people and offloading simple functions? You know, in terms of systems, the way you develop systems is you identify the simplest, most repetitive, easy to teach, type things and get someone to help you with that. You know, usually that gives you a big help. And then you start at once they're comfortable with that now you teach them other things. And then if you got the workload, you let them teach somebody else that simple stuff that they were doing early on. And gradually you start to build that into a system. You start to say, what are those things that I can offload? And I used to think of it like this, Brian, is like, once I got seven to 10 people trained, really competent at doing whatever it is I was spending my time on doing, I could basically promote myself up to a position where I was supervising and supporting them, you know, and that's kind. That's kind of how I moved. Moved up and built the organization, let it expand out, but you can't do that. But I've also made the mistake of. We're like, okay, you know, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'll have a quick training with you guys. And you Can't. You can't do it overnight. You got to train specifically and let people grow into the position, don't you think?

Of course. I mean, you have to. You have to offload and start taking on different things and challenge yourself. And quite honestly, you know, yeah, I was a good coder. Was I the best? No, by no means. And so I hire the best. That's what I changed the mentality of as well. So, you know, play the strengths and don't chase the weaknesses. That's something I've also kind of always followed my whole career. I don't. I don't try to perfect my weaknesses. I recognize it as a weakness, and I chase my. My. My strengths and push, keep pushing those further and further. And I think that's probably another kind of little piece. That is why we are where we are today.

You know, I've always thought that was one of my advantages. You know, I could do sales. Understood it perfectly. But, you know, I wasn't that enthused about it, you know, so it was really easy for me to. To build organization and teach people how to sell and manage them like that, you know, and it's. It's been that way. Like, even I remember when I rode horses, I rode competitively show jumpers for 16 years. And people say, you know, do you. You know, do you work with the horses? Do you, you know, clean their hoofs and bathe them and brush it? I said, no, that's a groom's job. I said, I think more of my horse than to subject them to the treatment and care that I would be giving them.

I like that.

And it's the same thing. I learned that lesson in construction. We were building houses one weekend. You know, you see all these guys, you know, seeing other people do stuff and knowing how they do it doesn't mean you can do it. If you're going to be competent, something, you got to be doing it all the time. And I remember we had a family moving in. It was August 18th. Wheeler was going to come with all their stuff. They're going to get their move into the house, get the kids in school. And we needed the shoe mold down in the kitchen, and it was already painted. It was just a few pieces, you know. You know, I had the miter box, I had the hammer, the little nails and all. I said, well, in a pinch, I'll do it. You know, how many cuts is there? You know, how many pieces is it? I stayed in there hours. I mean, I was hammering my fingers, I was splitting the Little shoebowl. I proved myself that one little adventure. No, you're not a finished carpenter, Larry. You know, you have finished carpenters who work for you. Stay. Stay in your lane, Larry.

Right. That's important. But it's also. It's also good for you to try it, though, right? And recognize that that was something I thought was important, was to actually, you know, hit your. Hit your finger with the hammer a few times after the 50th hit, you're like, man, I'm not getting any better at this. You know, just recognize it, be aware.

Yeah, you're exactly right. It try, you know, get in there and try from time to time to find, you know, because you're going to have more appreciation for the people actually can do it, you know, and so, Brian, been a lot of fun and appreciate your time. Wish you the best with your company. And hopefully you and I are going to check in again down the road and. And we'll find out how the company's doing and find out what new things you're learning about winning. This has really been great.

Thank you. I appreciate you having me on.

I'm going to give you. Do you have any last thing on the. That you last thought that you'd like to pass on to everybody listening, any newcomers coming up, people who already got their own companies and you're doing well, but just kind of reminders that, you know, have meant a lot to you or, you know, something you'd like to leave as a last word?

I do. I have two pieces, actually, so one of them is one of my favorite kind of quotes that I heard, and I really wish I remember the source, but it's don't be right and do the right thing. And so that's, as a leader, so important. You don't have to be right every time. Just do the right thing. And I've instilled that on every single team member in our company. And that's why our service is crazy good. Our reviews are crazy good because we don't care about being right. We care about the right end goal. Right.

Yeah.

So that's very important. And I had another one and drew a blank on it, so I'll leave you with that one.

Okay, good deal. Appreciate you saving for the next time.

If you enjoyed what you've heard and are dead serious about finding out for yourself exactly how this works in the real world. I've taken the most valuable business lessons I've learned over 40 years and put them into something for you to watch. Go to whiteellumwinning.com webinar now, in order to move up as fast as possible, I'm Larry Wydell, and I run the Million Dollar Mastermind. Go, go, go.