Why Being An Introvert Is Good For Your Business

Welcome to this edition of the Million Dollar Mastermind podcast. This is where we pick the brains of high achievers from all walks of life and get their hard earned real world insights on winning. I'm your host, Larry Wydell.

Hello, Bobby Gokul. How are you doing today?

Pretty good, Larry, pretty good. It's always good chatting with you. I'm so glad I get a chance to chat with you again today.

And thanks for coming back on. You're up in Toronto today.

Yes, yes, I am in Toronto. Yes, I am.

Yeah, we've talked before and I wanted to get you back on because I like the opportunity to dig deeper, have more time to kind of dig deeper into the struggles, the situations, the mental processes that you go through because we did the best we can. Oh, I have new guests on, but it's nice to have the opportunity to kind of dig deeper. And so as you were coming up, what do you, you know, yourself, when we go through these things, it really is useful because we're able to take those lessons and pass them on to other people. So it's almost like the more you suffer on the way up, the better you are at basically building your management team and then if you want to open offices and expand, allowing you to do that, help build independent leaders. So because everything you've gone through, they're probably going to have to go through at one time or another. So as you were coming up, how long did it take you to really break through? I mean, and how confident were you when you started into your business that you're in now? Was that a scary thing or was that a natural thing or did you have a lot of confidence right from the beginning?

Larry, if when I look back today, for me, when I started my business, someone was to interview me and look at my credentials and my expertise to do what I do today, there's no way they would have hired me. Yeah, I mean, when I came in, I was extremely introverted. I had done some part time telemarketing, sales because I did that out of necessity to make some additional part time income.

But there was no way growing up.

Anywhere I saw myself involved in any type of sales or marketing. So when I saw this opportunity, I got excited. But when I got home and I realized what I have to do, I started to sweat, I started to get scared because this is totally foreign to me. I did not have much of a business experience. I had, I was extremely introverted, didn't like to talk to people I know I didn't know. And so when I Look at it says, I mean, I got to go talk to people I don't know. I got to go to visit people I don't know. I got to do presentations to people.

I.

And I got to convince them on something. This was scary. Like, I was the kind of guy, like, I figured, okay, if I have something to do, I go about and I get it done myself. I know I can take care of me.

Yeah.

But then to get other people involved and then marketing something to them, it was very, very, very scary.

Yeah. And so I kind of felt the same way. But what kept me coming back was I knew that 85% of the people in the world, the made big dollars. They're in that top 1%, 10% or whatever were in sales in one way or another or had started in sales, had come up through the sales, sales, management, something like that. And because business is selling products, selling services, selling stuff, you got to have new customers, new clients, new markets, new. And then you got to fight your competition for it. It's like you're not going to go in very few things and be the only game in town and you got to convince people to do business with you. So that process, when you say, what do people say? Because you hear it all the time, that I'm, you know, even at the head of with Bruce Springsteen. They're interviewing Bruce Springsteen. And he said, yeah, the music business was a struggle for me and elements of it because he said, you know, I'm an introverted guy. And I'm thinking, what? Shut up. I'm an introvert. Well, why did you pick up the guitar and get up in the mic and be the lead singer? You wanted the spotlight on you, but you do feel that's one thing to do, that is another thing to meet and greet people and get to know people on a one on one basis and have confidence to just have conversations with people. And that is a skill that is something you go through and do it enough to where you realize, you know, the mysteries getting taken out of it. You know, it's like when we're coming up, the beautiful girl. What do you say to the drop dead gorgeous girl? You're paralyzed with seeing how beautiful she is and everything. It's just like, just say something, you know, she's just a person. You strike the conversation and once you get it going, you break the ice. And usually it's a question you can start to feel comfortable. When you say I was introverted, what does that mean?

Well, I mean, Larry, like, if I saw you somewhere and I didn't know you. It's almost 100% chance I would not start up a conversation. If I'm in an elevator and there's five people. I just cannot wait to get to my floor, to get off the elevator. Wherever I was, if I didn't know someone, I was not the kind of person who was very good at making new friends. Yeah, if I was somewhere where I didn't know people, I would try to get out of that situation, to get into a situation where I would find people that I was familiar with. So I was not really good at creating new friendships, new contacts. That was not part of my strength.

And why do you think you were like that or why do you think people are like that? Because I know that I've been pegged as a great recruiter over my lifetime, but I would never personally do a whole lot of one on one recruiting like some people do. I do it through an organization or recruit through people and get teams and get organizations doing it. But to go out there and just be the naturally life of the party person, that was not me. Although I never saw myself as introverted, but I never saw myself as extroverted either. And so why do you think people. But it's. Was there unpleasant experiences you had growing up to where people like put you back in your box when you tried to interact or what?

I don't think it was people putting it back, but I think it was part of the upbringing where basically you were kind of told, don't mix with people that you don't know, you don't understand. Stay within the norm. Family, close friends.

Why would they say that? Because I think a lot of families say that. I think a lot of people come from that. In our neighborhood. This, that and the other. Don't do that. Why do you think they do that? Why is that helpful for a child?

I think a lot of times the grownups who do that, I think they're sort of being more of a. They feel that they're protecting you because they're figuring, you know, you may probably go out there and if you don't know who you're going to get involved in or who you're going to hang out with, maybe you could, consequently you could hang out with the wrong crowd and get yourself into trouble. So they're trying to keep you on that path within part, sort of a safe path where you associate with people. You're not dwelling into too much of the unknown.

Yeah. And that's probably it. Most people are going through life, they're trying to be safe, they're trying not to get in trouble. They're not trying not to. You know, there's a lot of people think you raise your head up, your head gets cut off, that type thing. But where, on the other hand. And so I can see from that mentality, people that are kind of timid, holding in themselves would pass that on their children. But that's really stupid because you got to have social skills. And the smart parents are going out there with their kids and saying, here's how you meet an adult. They say, here's Mr. Johnson. And they'd go out of their way to introduce their kids to adults and say, this is my oldest son, Bobby, or my oldest daughter, Mary. And she's doing this, that the other. I'd like you to meet Mr. And Mrs. So go out of their way to have their children meet and then teach the kids. Don't look at the ground. If you get introduced to an adult, look them in the eye and shake their hand and have a good grip. You know, you train them on having a good handshake and a smile, smile. Look them in the eyes and say, nice to meet you, and be positive in that situation. The smart parents are teaching their kids social skills in meeting new people right from the beginning. Rather than say, don't go out there, you stay or you hide in the shadows. Who raises their kids to want them to grow up and be hiding in the shadows? You hide in the shadows. You stay in the back. Don't let anybody you know, if they're important people or the president of the company, they're in charge of promoting people, you hide, you don't meet them. Nobody. That's stupid. They don't think it true, do they, Bobby?

It is so true. You know, Larry, a lot of times, like it might go back at my own upbringing, it was basically thought like, you know, you study, you go to school, you study and you do. But looking back now, you look at. I don't think my parents understood the significance of marketing skills, of it doesn't matter what you know. It's important how you can market yourself. And like you said, it's such a big significance to a young person. Life for them to be taught social skills. Like, exactly. You just said when you meet someone how you communicate. You should exude some confidence, learn to ask questions, learn to be able to pick someone's brain. You meet somebody, ask questions so you can learn something as opposed to just avoiding those situations. And I think that is such an important part. I think in the upbringing of any child. Because that confidence, I think will take it very, very far in life. And I think it's important, you know, people have not stressed the significance of the importance of mastering confidence, good social skills.

Well, it's all ignorance about winning as far as I think Bobby, that's what we cover. That's why this podcast, I think is popular with a certain element out there is the fact that we kind of lift the veil on how it really is. And the smart thing to realize is like everybody you meet knows the attitude to have is everybody you walk by on the street, everybody you meet, anybody you talk to, they probably know something that could benefit you. They probably know somebody, they probably know something, they probably been somewhere and they probably have some kind of information that could really benefit you if you'll take the time to kind of talk to them and let them talk and find out. But you and I run across people all the time. They just look like dorks. They just look like they've got a bad attitude, you got a frown and they you like. And then you start talking to them and all of a sudden they smile and everything changes. And then you make some kind of humorous comment and then you find out this guy you know is. Or this lady, you know, they're very important people, but you would never know that by looking at them. And they got a lot of personality and everything, but you just look at them in the street, you're walking by them, it's like, oh, you know, I'll tell you, I've done training for a zillion years and I remember going back in the day, everybody wore coat and ties and we're, we dressed up, we looked like somebody. We didn't look like all wear sweatshirts and T shirts like everybody does now and backpacks.

But.

When I would go and see people, I'm used to seeing them dressed up and everything. But when we had our manager retreats, like a three day full timer retreat. And by the way, I have White l Academy on YouTube, like 180 of these little scrawling videos that I think Bobby's aware of, that is exactly what I would put on the board way back in the day when I would do the whole three days myself in training full timers. But bobby, I take 100. So we would go off to some kind of YMCA camp, some kids camp, something out in the woods somewhere and people would show up in their coats and ties. They'd show up, dress casual and they look like dogs. I mean it just like I can Remember, starting off every meeting I'm looking at like 150, 200 people thinking to myself, this is the sorriest group of people I have ever met in my life because most of them come from offices all over and I wouldn't know them. And I like, God, we got the dregs of the world here in our management team. Like this is hopeless. But then what happens? Then you take a, you go an hour or two, then you take a break and then I have another session and then you have break for dinner and then you have a night session and then have a break and you're talking and mingling and they're coming up and interacting. What I'd find by lunch of the second day, I mean, my mind completely changed. Like these are the most impressive people I've ever met in my life. It's like there'd be people out of D.C. that ran government agencies or something. They had like 5,000 people underneath them. Back in where they came from are certain every. You have actually doctors in there, lawyers in there, you have CPAs that have their own company, but they're trying to expand. And you got people that have been around the world. They incredible people who came to us because they were looking for a better opportunity. They want to move up, they want to try something different, they wanted to get freshened up. But when I looked at them, it's like every single time it was like, I'm just gagging at these people, just looking at their faces. But then when you got behind the faces and you got to find out who these people are, it's just mind blowing. And life is a lot like that. You can either go up and down the street with this closed minded attitude that everybody's an idiot. Not really looking to break down the ice and really open yourself up to learning some new things, meeting some new people. Because the person you meet, they might know somebody who is exactly who you're looking for. They might have the perfect answer for a problem that you've got. And I heard this way long ago out in Keystone resort one night I was talking to the video guy I'd hired to video our family for going out there and doing a ski trip. And kind of a, they did that as a service. So we had met for dinner and he had this phrase that I remember him saying, I've never forgotten. He said, when you're talking, magic can happen. Whatever the situation is, magic can happen. If you've got, especially if you got two high powered positive type people just talk. It's like Here is like why I love getting on with you is like, I don't know what's going to happen. We're going to start talking about some subject. But you got a chance for some magic to happen here and people listening in have a chance to spark some fires in their mind about moving forward. But as you go forward, how did you force yourself out of that? Because you're going to have to force yourself, you're going to have to be introverted your entire life. I remember Mark Cuban on Shark Tank one time they had this lady, nice lady and mild mannered, but she had some great idea, don't say what it is right now, something to do with shoes and sounded pretty good. But she said, well, at the end of it he said, have you been to trade shows? Have you been to this? What have you done on marketing so far? And she said, well, I haven't really done any of that yet because I'm introverted and it's just not my personality. And so Cuban said, okay, I'm out. He said, if you don't believe in your product enough for you to go past your natural inclination, being reserved and introverted, you don't want to do this bad enough to get past that. I don't want to be in. That tells me you don't believe in it enough. Because if you believed it enough you would go past it. So obviously you believed in what you were you're new opportunity enough to put yourself to go past it. But how hard was it and how did you. What were those steps?

You know what, it was difficult, Larry, but there's a couple of things as you were speaking there, I'm thinking there's a couple of things I remember very early. I was reading one of Dale Carnegie books and he said everyone you meet who crosses a path with you will either leave you better than they met you or worse than they met you. And I said I'm going to take on the approach that everyone who meets me is going to leave me better. So I started working myself aside. So whenever I meet someone and the only thing you know, a couple other things about, you know, your quality of life is based on the quality of questions you can ask. So I started to learn how to ask questions. And then later on I was reading one of Tom Peters book and he said life is sales. And I said I have got to learn because I don't know this stuff. It didn't come naturally to me. I was not taught about this stuff before I started business. But I says I these things are Crucial is very, very important. So at any point, I have to consistently be putting forward a proposition. But not just put that proposition, but sell that proposition and sell it to the person so that they can know that their interaction with me will leave them better than when they met me. So these little things I started to. I said, you know what? I don't know. But one of the things I think was a good quality I had is that I always felt that whatever I was going to do, I had to be a good student, I had to learn. So I started to learn these things, and as I started to learn, I started to get better. And like you said, when I started to meet people in the initial meeting, maybe the first five, six minutes or 10 minutes of the meeting, there didn't seem like there was a lot. But once I established a connection. And so that's another thing that I worked very hard on to get somehow to connect with that person, I realized, man, you know, if I didn't do this, I'd literally be walking away from a gold mine. Because this person has so much to offer. And when they're comfortable with me and they feel that we have something in common, it's amazing to see them open up and see how talented they are and says, you know what? They're probably like, just like how I was when I started. They can be a lot more, but they really don't know how to bring it out.

Yeah, the thing, you know, you bring up the deal about finding something in common with them and asking questions. You don't have to feel like, I don't even know how many great salesmen there are in the world. But I'll tell you this. You can have a great career in sales and not be a master conniver, manipulator, whatever. You treat people right, be pleasant, be brief, get to the point, have a product that can do them some good, and shut up and let answer questions. It's answer their questions, and then if you want to dig deeper with them, have the right questions to ask them to send them down the road to where you want them to go. I had a. At one point in my life where I was immobilized and all I could do was write. I had a list about 40 to 60 books that I figured out I could write. And one of them was the title is going to be Everybody's a Salesman. And the premise is that even parents are salespeople. You got to talk your kids into. You just can't beat them into everything. There's a limit to how much you could beat your kids. If you try to beat them all the time, they're just going to have a tough skit. Okay, go ahead and whack me. The thing is, you've got to let them see how it's in their best interest and get them to buy into it. So they do it not begrudgingly, but they do it with some enthusiasm. And that's going to make it successful and that's going to make it more consistent rather than having to do it every night. And so the finding ways to motivate them in the right way, I remember even. But I mean, it's a skill because I remember my youngest son when I heard the alternate close either this or would you like this or you like that? So, and I use that in my business because we would go to homes and do presentations and husband and wife together. And I decided I was only going to work two nights a week. If I had two or three appointments two nights a week, that would be plenty. And I get the rest of it done during the day. And so I would tell people I great opportunity. I've got some great things to show you. I know you're going to be excited about it. What night is better? Tuesday or Thursday? And then it was me, like early or late, you'd always have alternate clothes. So I had my 2 year old and I remember trying to get him in the bath or something one night and I went in and I said, well, look, you want to brush your teeth now or get in the bath and get in the tub and take a bath? He said, I don't want to brush my teeth or get a bath. He threw it back at my face. So in sales you learn how to, you've got to learn how to overcome objections and be prepared. But those are skills. You can learn those words. There are great parenting books, there are great. Now it's on social media, YouTube and Instagram and people are geniuses out there. You don't even have to come up with it yourself, but you do have to get it. So you have to prepare yourself and get yourself tools to use, which are basically words you say in those situations. But a lot of it is connecting with people. When, how soon did you learn and how did you learn that? If I'm going to. Because it's like this for people who want to know about sales is they're not going to buy your product if they don't like your company. And if they don't like your company, if they don't like you, they're not going to like your company. So it's like, first of all, you got to get them liking you. And the best way to get them liking you is they say, if you want to sell a car, talk about a car, you want to sell a house, talk about the house, you want to sell yourself, let them talk about themselves. You don't talk about yourself. It's the reverse. And so when you're talking to people and they ask, that's why you want to ask them questions and get them talking to you. Because you're listening for something, you can connect with them on something, place they've been an interest, they have something they want to do and something in their family, their kids have done and they're getting ready to do. And then you're. But even as you're just listening there, that's warming up the relationship because you're. Most people don't have anybody take any time to listen to them ever. They're always interrupted at all. And so if you could get them to talk to you, they're going to like you better. Sooner or later you're going to find something you can connect on. And then it's a matter of they might be open to feeling good about the company you represent, the product you're selling and wind up doing business with you. But it is a process that you go through. And how did you learn that?

When I came into business, like anything else, I figured if I'm going to do this business, first of all, I knew that the business work, I knew I was not getting this. I will not get the success that I need unless I develop into the person who deserves that success. So I studied, read, learned, went to training. And what I did is every time I went out and I did, I met with someone when I leave, I would sort of look at, sort of go back and evaluate what were some of the things that I did right? What were some of the things that I could improve on. And so every time I'm consistently trying to remember, you know, like, I'm always in training for the next person. So I would evaluate, if I tweak, I learn something here. But like what you said, something that I think when I also realized very early is that people like people who are interested in them. For example, when I started in Toronto, Toronto is pretty diverse. I mean, we have people from all different parts of the world. And one of the things that I did is that when I started to meet people, I would ask them questions about them, their culture, right? And I would listen maybe 1520 minutes. And they will tell me their family history, their culture, explain things, even take me around their apartment and show me things in their apartment or their houses that, you know, why this is there. And I start to realize that if I spent an hour with them, the actual business transaction only took about 15 minutes. If I spent 45 minutes listening to them. And I realized the most important part of communication is listening. So I started listening to them, started asking questions, not probing about my business, but probing more about them. And they suddenly realized that I was very interested in them. And like you said, in that process, I realized what I did was they got to like me. When people like you, they trust you. Doing business with them is very easy.

Yeah. And it's genuine. You're not going in there and just like, oh, I got to listen to these idiots talk about themselves. It's like you. You go in there with the attitude. In Toronto, there's all kind of interesting people with all kind of interesting backgrounds from all over the world. And you find a family and you say, I want to find out what their background is. And you're like, genuinely interested, and you get caught up in it, and the time flies. And you can break the biggest barrier just by finding a common ground or something that like. We had a guy come in, Randy Koloha, and he's a great. Everybody just naturally love Randy. But so he gets going. He learns the basics, and he gets going in sales. And he had this family that someone invited him to him to say, listen, the husband, no, he's an ice cube. He's very belligerent, like a Marine drill sergeant. And he won't talk to you. You can go in and talk to the spouse, the wife, but he's not going to get up. So anyway, he walks in, walks in the house. Wife meets him at the door, very nice, very, very friendly. They walk through and he's. She's bringing him in, and they walk by the family room, and there's the husband. And he's in the recliner stretched out, looking at the tv. And she goes, hey, Johnny, this is Randy. He came by to show us some things. And Bob said, you know, it's like, didn't even turn his head. He's not going to. Randy tries to say, so Randy knew he was in trouble because he also knew he wasn't going to get any sale if they didn't both listen to it. So we had to get past the drill sergeant at some point. So anyway, she's bringing him into the kitchen. We're going to sit and spread things out in the kitchen. They walk down, turn down this hallway and there's a big fish mounted on the wall. So Randy goes, he realizes the deal. So Randy's looking for common ground. So he goes, now they're down the hall and they're not in the room, the fanny room where the guy is. But he goes, wow, who caught this fish? And he said, immediately the guy jumps out of the recliner, comes around. He said, I did. He said, bumblebone got this. He said, from this point on, you couldn't shut him up and he had to tell the story of the fish and this and the other. Randy said, he said, I understand what you talk about because I love fishing myself. And so they hit it off and they're talking tackle and places they've been. And of course he walked out of there with a big sale that night, but without connecting with the guy on the fish, he's dead in the water.

And so I think a lot of people don't realize the value of what you just talked about there. One of the things that helped me very early, I realized that it is not just about transaction or doing sales. The most important thing is learn to connect with people. You and I think if people realize that, don't worry about your products and your services. You connect. Once you believe in what you. For me, I knew what I was doing was good for people, it's going to help people, but it didn't matter if they didn't get to like me and trust me. And so once, once they do that and once you build that connection, it is the most important part of communication. Once you connect with people, the rest of it is it's very, very.

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Now, when you got into, you have to get all over, break the ice, get into the process of talking to people. So let's say that's not a problem. Now how did you Go about ramping up your activity because you gotta talk to a lot of people, you gotta see a lot of people to start your business. How did you ramp up your activity and work on your schedule, get yourself to be efficient in the use of your time?

It was a learning experience. I think in the beginning, like everything else, when you start out, you figure that, like everybody you talk to, and then suddenly you start getting people. You may talk to people that they don't show any interest. And you talk to some people and they show some interest, but then that interest doesn't last, they disappear. One of the things that, what I did was I, like any person in the beginning, I used to get. You feel bad about things. You sort of question, maybe what I'm doing is right and what I'm doing is right, or is it, I need to talk to more people. So I came to the conclusion that, listen, what I'm doing is right. I just need to talk to more people. What I realized is that more people I talked to, and then what I also mastered was that everyone that I knew knew people. So if I was speaking to one person, and I worked hard to create an impression and build a connection, and I figured that would open up an Avenue for 30, 40, 50 people. So I no longer saw my connection with one person as a one connection. I saw that as a pathway to multiple connections. And so once I got that one person who I built a relationship with and that was connected, I tapped into that market, I basically would ask them, who do you know? And use their connections that they know to increase the amount of people that I spoke to. So this in one way would eliminate me having to talk to whole tons of people. But the moment I got a connection, I was speaking to a lot of people, but we had something in common. And so that generated a lot more results for me. So I tapped into, like you would say in our business, I learned the taproot.

Yeah. And that's like market. You learn what your market is. Like if you want to put together a basketball team for your church league or your recreational league or whatever, you want to get some people that are athletic, but also you want to get them that have some size or tall. You don't want them to all be 5ft tall. You just kind of generally have things you look for and you make exceptions, of course, but the more you can get, I know that we know people that have been. Come out of like the plumbing business and they've started some kind of sales thing or some kind of. They come up with some new idea and our service type thing. And they'll go and recruit plumbers because it's easier for them to talk to plumbers. Or people come out of coaching, they won't even try and get anybody, except someone's got a coaching background because they know I can talk that language. I'll feel comfortable with those people right off the bat. I've got an edge, because that's what you're looking for. You're looking for an edge. And again, the common ground. Let's talk about getting a picture in your mind. How early did you get a picture in your mind of how big you could be and how fast you, you know a role from a role model? Example, I don't know, from books, listening to tapes. How long did it take you to get a clear picture in your mind about doing your business in a big way?

I think we say in our business a lot of times that big decisions are made at big events. So when I came in, what I thought was big was actually small. And so when I got exposed, that's why it's so important to be around. Like in the early days when I came in, like people like yourself and Bill and Barnes and listening to Art and Francis and a whole bunch of other people who I look up to a lot today by getting exposure to people who had bigger vision than I had. I didn't have that. I had a big vision that I thought was big. But when I started listening to other people and see what could happen, it forced me to expand my vision. But I think one of the things that helped me a lot is that I would set a target, that when I get to that target, it's like climbing a mountain. I get to one peak and then I look at it and it says, okay, it's nice here, but you know what? If I get to the next peak, maybe the view is a little bit better. And then I will strive to get to the next peak. And when I get to the next peak, I said, that's so true. Because this peak, the view is a lot better than the previous one. And by doing that, a gradual process. So for me, I would not say at the beginning I had the same vision of my business and that I have at this time. But I think as time went by, it grew. And that exposure, being around environments that stretch, like they say, if you are the smartest guy in the room or you are the richest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room, right? So I think that was really what helped me. I got Myself in situation that at every time was bigger than where I was or whatever success I had. So it made me a couple of things. One, realized that there's a lot more to be accomplished. And it kind of also made me uncomfortable.

Now, when you say it forced you, how did being around people that were doing it bigger and had that kind of track record, it didn't really force you, but psychologically, it created a pressure. And I think that's because. You know why I think that was because you were capable of it. You didn't know you were capable of it. But I think being exposed to it, you wind up being forced to do it because your inside says, no, we're not gonna tolerate being sitting on the back of the bus while we could be sitting on the front of the bus type thing. But until you're exposed to it, that doesn't get woken up, does it?

No, it doesn't. And I think, like a lot of times for most people, and unfortunately, most people, born, live, die, and take it with them, they have it inside them. And you understand, because they're not in the right environment. Like I will tell people, there are no ordinary people. They're ordinary systems. If you put someone into the right system, it's inside them, it bring out. So I agree what you're saying. Like, deep inside me, I wanted to do something big. But when I got into these environments and I got around leaders who were doing things way greater than I could have envisioned at the time, it really stretched me. And I was very fortunate in my business, is that I was surrounded by people who just did not talk about what they were, their successes and what they were doing is that they were willing to get down and reach you and encourage you and pour hope and belief in you. That's a true testament that I was blessed to be part of an incredible system that is where people who are ahead of you, who have done what you want to do, don't say, well, look at me and say, listen, I can do it. You can do it. I did it, and I am willing to help you to get to that level. And I thought that was huge.

Yeah. And the thing is that you have people that could be listening to this and saying feeling sorry for themselves is like, I'm in a unique industry or unique side of a small niche situation, and there's no big events going on in my industry to plug into. But wrong, because you have these entrepreneurial groups, regional entrepreneurial groups all over the country where people get in, they meet together, they share ideas, they spark each other to greatness, and they solve, you know, help each other solve each other's problems. You also have trade shows. Just about everything you have out there, there's a trade show you can go to. And if there's people I've interviewed on the podcast that had this great idea in some kind of industry they'd never been involved in, but what they did was they had some new slants, some new angle, they wanted to do something. So the first triggering event, they went to the national convention for whatever that industry was, and they went around and talked to everybody at every booth and saw the people you know, made friends, ask questions, and then found the people that they could relate to the most. And then they walked out of that with some friends, some mentors, some possibly vendors that they could use and like, left that convention and just exploded with contacts and ideas that they had no idea of before they went to it. But they put themselves in position for those light bulbs to go off in those contacts to go off in their, in their head. And so don't feel sorry for yourself, like, well, where can I go? I don't have anybody I talk to where it's one thing to reach out and get information off YouTube and be listening in your car and reading books and things like that, which you should do because that accelerates your growth. But look for live events that you could plug into, look for live groups that you could plug into. And if you ever luck up and get somebody who would take you seriously and spend some time mentoring you, take them seriously and follow through on what they show you and let them know that how it's working for you so they'll feel like it's worth their time and to spend with you. And so then look for ways, as you move up the ladder, look for ways to give back yourself. Like, what we're doing here is, I think this is not doing us any good. We're talking about stuff we already know. We might be reminding ourselves of the things that are pretty much obvious to us are you become obvious over the career, but this is a form of giving back, and the fun of that and the rewards of that are unlimited. And so we get compensated. You just don't charge for watching the podcast. But it's going to be fun to see and hear the stories down the road of people that have learned things and wound up getting ready to do great things because maybe we saved them some time now. And as you came up, who were you? Did mentors and role models help you get the, the picture of what you could do.

I still believe that, you know, and this is where. Go back to what we talked about earlier. When you're introverted and you want to do something, but you're scared to go out and seek. What you need. And I think if I can tell people, is that if you want something, go out and seek. Don't be introverted. Don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid to ask for help. There are so many people out there that you may think don't want to help, but they are delighted to help. They're happy to help. You just got to go out and ask. And so to answer your question, for me, huge mentorship was tremendous. I always tell people, I believe that a lot of times, if you can find someone that you can connect with and go and ask people, ask for help, ask them and tell them that you want to be successful. These are the things that what you want, if they would mind helping you seek your advice, whether you consult with them once a month or whatever. So I think mentorship is huge. I think for me, that was huge because I was fortunate that I had people around me that a big part of their life was providing that mentorship. So I tapped into it wherever it was possible. It made a huge, huge difference.

Yeah. And the thing is, it allows you to ask the specific questions that help you in the specific situation you're in. Because at all times, all we really need to know is what's going to help us move ahead from where we are. And we don't need to know the whole rest of our life. We just need to know what's holding us up now. And as you got going, it's hard to remember. I know it's going to be very hard for you to dig back in, but what was the toughest situation? Some of the. If I say tough situation. Roadblocks, stalled out, bottlenecks, frustration, where you grew up to a certain point, you expected to keep on going. Then all of a sudden, train wreck. Either it fell apart or it stalled out, or a bunch of key people left. Or like John Addison used to say, a meteor fell out of the sky on your head and destroyed your life. It just seemed to hit only you. If you look back in your life, that could be a financially, it could be relationship, it could be health, it could be inside your business, key personnel. Where were some of the worst, toughest situations that the young, naive Bobby go cool. That's feeling good about himself, got in a new industry, making money, developing new skills and friends, making progress, expects Things to be able to continue to grow and then all of a sudden you run into a brick wall. What were some of those situations and how did you deal with them?

I came in the business, I worked really hard, I had something good going. But I didn't have the experience of dealing with people who had ulterior motives when they joined your business. So I was about maybe 27, 28 years old in the business and part of my business, the real estate market in Toronto, what was going down. And so we had a couple of guys who were brokers, who were experienced and they joined my business. Yeah, and they were shrewd and they came in and they did a bunch of bad business and all this kind of stuff like that. And because they were desperate situation. But I didn't understand all this kind of stuff and it happened within such a short period of time. And then these guys left and then they left me with a whole book of block of bad business that I hardly made any money from. They were promoted early, so I made, I made 4%. But then I'm liable for over 100% of it, this stuff. And I look back and I said, but at that point I look at it, how do I deal with this? And then I sat down on a decision. This is how you learn. And then you go and you study other people, successful people. Then I talked to other people in my company who were very successful and they said, there's a lot of people like you who are very successful today. They went through that learning curve. But it was very, very difficult because I couldn't understand. I was very nice to them, I provided what a service. But they didn't come with the intention of building a business together. They came to capitalize on whatever little stuff I had going and to exploit it to their own advantage. Yeah, that was a major learning curve. But what that has done for me, I've told my guys who came into my business after I says, I am here, I have learned the hard way, no one can ever do that to you.

Another one of the books I was going to write for young people is Monsters you will meet in business because when you come up, you're young and naive and you think this or the other. But you're going to have bosses that steal credit for all of your work. You're going to have allied cheats steal the monster type thing and, and this can happen. We had a guy, I thought you could tell someone was a crook. I learned I had a guy who was the most street smart. I don't Think you ever met him? Red Tillman down in Charlotte. And this was the shrewdest street smart guy. He came up the rough way. Nobody could get anything past him. Well, that's what I thought. He had this young, good looking, preppy dress guy, very kind and nice to everybody in his office. And we found out one day the FBI came knocking on the door. Found out this guy was running an insurance scam up in the North Carolina mountains and getting forging people's signature on their, their mutual fund accounts and changing the address over to this P.O. box. And then a couple months later he'd go in there and have them and he'd forge their signature. He'd have them with start withdrawing cash and sending it to this P.O. box. Of course they didn't know it was happening. And then he'd go like once a week up there and pick up the money and then he'd forges their name on their chest. He had it going for about a year until the FBI figured it out and he showed up at the office. But this happened under the nose of my most street smart guy. It's unbelievable, Larry.

And you don't think like for example, go back to my own. Those guys who shafted me, when I look at it, when they filed bankruptcy and I got the papers, that was when I received the bankruptcy filings. It was bad, but it didn't make me feel bad because I felt I was not the only one who got scammed. Yeah, because you see the list of the people. Because I felt why me? Because you can't. When you're in those situations. You always say why is this happening to me? But then you say, ah, no, no, you're not that special. There's a bunch of other people this happened to.

Yeah, I had my most 16 year most trusted person. The person that every day I heard people say to me, because they all knew her, how lucky you are to have Barbara. What would you do without Barbara? I wish I had a Barbara. Well, it turns out Barbara eventually got caught for embezzling a million dollars or more. We never from me, she got away with it. You know the white collar crime embezzler. If you got an executive assistant for their benefit, your benefit, that's where the big embezzlements come from. And just keep, keep them honest. In fact, when I had to let her go, all of my core people were mad at me. They couldn't believe that I had done this to the great Barbara. And so you and I both know this. We won't say his Name a multi billionaire and we tell these stories forever. But he thought he had solved the financial problem. He was protected because his CPA was his cousin. He grew up with him, my cousin. But then later he found out he had sent the cousin over to buy this 2,600acre farm for him to negotiate the sale and everything. He found out the guy buried a purchase of another 800 acre farm for himself personally and buried that into the price. But he didn't catch it for a while. Then he'd sent him over there to Savannah, to Gulf Stream to buy himself a G5. And he found out later the guy had also put into the price a twin engine plane for himself and buried that into the price. And he kept getting away with it for years until the guy got so arrogant that he gave himself a million dollar Christmas bonus. And that got caught.

Larry, experience, I think teaches a lot going back. So when I talk about how difficult it was for me at that point later on in my career I had a guy and he was doing some sort of thing that resembled what I saw early my experience. And I asked my company to terminate him. And everybody said to me, you are crazy. Why are you doing this? This guy is a rising star. He's doing a lot of stuff. But I noticed he was not doing things the right way. He left our business and five years later he was charged with mortgage fraud and went to jail.

Wow.

Sometimes these experiences at the time, you may think, you know, it's. But it prepares you if you learn from it, it prepares you to prevent bigger mishaps down the road.

Let's just cut through the mustard here. I mean, this stuff cuts you to the bone. Sometimes it wrecks your finances. I mean, sometimes you have to wind up selling some of the things you have to cover the losses from these people. You know, I've got you and I know have a mutual friend. I won't say his name either. But when he started, he had gotten into the real estate with another friend. They bought a big office building downtown Greensboro. And the other friend went off and sold the business out from under him and left him a $400,000 debt that he couldn't find him. And so he started 400 grand in the hole when he came into business with me, of nothing to do with himself, but you know, he got the lesson. And so tell people from your own personal experience when you're in that only the lonely, you're alone now, everybody's with you when you're growing and going. And. But when, if you're have you noticed like Biden, now Biden had. He gives up the stops running. There's a lonely guy now, Joe Biden, very. But it's like John McCain the day after he was running for president, the day after he lost. The next morning at 10 o' clock, he had had crowds, he had had reporters, he had this hundreds, thousands of people everywhere he went. You had to fight your way through the ground. The morning after he lost, John McCain was spotted at the local Starbucks in line getting coffee by himself in Arizona. So anyway, John McCain was in line by himself buying a cup of coffee. All the crowds went away overnight when he lost the presidency. So you're alone now. And what does that do? How do you deal with it? Just tell people they're going to have. You're going to go through these things as well. You cannot. It's part of life. And so tell them, Bobby.

You know, Larry, I think as you're speaking and I think about it during those moments because not only it impacts you in such a way, you even start not only doubting your business venture way of success, but you start doubting yourself because you start to go back and you start to say, maybe I should have done this, maybe I should have checked this, maybe. Why did I overlook this? How come I became so gullible? But I think two of the things, I think that's why it's so important to surround yourself with some good people and a good partner. So for me, I have a very strong partnership. And so my partner, the two of us, one of the things, we would try to lift each other up. We would look at each other and says, you know what? Okay, two of us can work through this. And then you seek counsel from people who are more experienced than you. And so what I did, I went to people who were more successful and who been to. And I sit down and I tell them exactly how I feel and what I was thinking and seek their guidance. And that's why even today I tell people that at every level of success that I have, I have a world of respect for people who are more successful. Because whatever I've gone through, chances are they have gone through that and more. And so I think it is so important. I know you talked earlier about mentorship and having like an inner circle of having people that you can go to for counsel. I think that is so massive because a lot of times people try to do things on their own and think, well, only what they are thinking could be the possible solution to whatever situation they're facing. There are other People who are looking from the outside and who have probably experienced that, that their advice and their guidance is priceless.

And could we say to people that don't. If you get hit with a lightning bolt out of the sky and it just don't go into a shell and hide and talk to people that have been there, done that, who have seek out wisdom. You look for comfort and counsel, but go for it. You need more at that point than someone to say, there, there, Bobby.

It's.

I saw something on television the other day. Somebody like their father just got killed or something. It was a young person. Their father got killed. And they go see the neighbor. The neighbor says, it'll be all right. No, it won't.

What you said, Larry, that is so powerful, what you said. It's more important that we seek wisdom than counsel, because people can console you, they can be empathetic to what you're facing, but they can take your part out. But if you seek wisdom, you seek people who have accomplished things. And the one thing also I think is so important, which I did at the beginning, when it happened to me, is that you tend to feel, why am I the victim? And you tend to go, why me? Well, it's not only why me. You're not the only one who face difficulty in life and went on to do so. Most people who have accomplished something significant had setbacks, maybe. They may not talk. I'm so glad we're talking about this. They may not talk frequently enough about the setbacks and the hurdles that they had to overcome, but they did. They can give you the wisdom and guidance to get you over.

That's a bad thing. But how do you make good things happen? Like, at a certain point, you know, if you're running a business, you'll be going along and you'll have a growth surge up to a certain point. But then the natural thing is your team, your organization, everybody kind of feels good about where you are and the progress you made. And then you can be motoring along and they don't see it. They think they're doing great. But, you know, like, we're just getting ready to go into a big slump because we're not growing. We're starting to get a little sloppy. We're starting to take things for granted. We're starting to get a little arrogant. We're starting to not check as much as we used. Starting to just get sloppy. And so how have you dealt with that, where you say, you just got to change things, you got to get everybody's attention, you Got to launch a new blitz, because this is unacceptable. You know, we're growing, we're doing good, but we're better than this. How do you put your foot down and go for greatness when you've already had a great run and this and the other? But you know that if you don't get in charge at that point, you're going to lose your momentum, you're going to start into a decline, and things are going to start. You might be making money, but it's going to be. You're going to have, you know, it's like problems are all. I always looked at it like this. While one of the reasons I wanted always, you hear, grow or die. But another side of that was where I looked at is like, you always have problems, but if you're growing, you stay in front of them. But as soon as you slow down, the dogs can catch you and drag you down. And I just wanted to stay in front that way, keep going that way. And so how did you. When you saw you were in that situation where we got to do something dramatic, something big, a big turnaround, and that led to a big growth thing? What did you do? How did you do it?

Larry, what you're saying is that you start and you get growth and you have people around you that major contributors to that growth. But then when you get to a point, and you may not see it, you may not think it is, but those people around, they have reached their peak. In their mind, they have plateaued. And so if you want to move to the next level with folks who have already plateaued, it frustrates you. I went through that. I went through that. I've been talking to our guys and said, we got to go to the next level. In their minds, there was no next level. They were done. And I'm trying to move to the next level with people who don't want to go to the next level. And so you get through that period of frustration and then going back. And I start, look, I says, listen, I gotta find some other people who are not where these guys are at, who are where these guys started to take me to the next level. So you always gotta have new people coming in. And then when your existing talent that you have, there may be one or two who may be maverick, who may be different, and says, well, listen, I'm with you. I want to do something big, but from my experience, it won't be the masters. So that's why you always got to have an influx of new people coming in. And you're not going to make these people who have plateaued feel bad. You're going to use their because their level is higher than a new person. So that new person choose to strive to their level. That's going to create growth within your business.

I'm going to say this fast because we've been talking a long time and we can't open up a whole can of worms here. But be aware that if when you move to incredible success you may have the people that got you there are probably not going to be, not all of them are going to be the ones that'll take you on. Up we went, we sold out the company that you and I been a part of for a while. And when you orig the original seven, the founder seven, there were some of those that just were not equipped mentally for our emotionally really didn't have the desire to keep the ride going. After we had grown about, we'd probably grown a hundred times but to keep on going they were ready to check out. And so it was tough not to get the pats on the back. And all of that stuff is like in your core circle you're just be aware your core advisors, you're going to, as you go up the ladder, you're probably going to have as you have success, you're going to have to have some turnover in those key core advisors. And you got to be tough enough to make those changes because it's not fair for the people that it's going to be uncomfortable for some of those people to stay. And you got to be tough enough to call that shot. And it happens to founders too. Founders of companies often reach the point where they get up to the point they used to run everything. Then they go public and they get a board of directors and, and they run it for a while and then the board of directors say that original founder is too much of a cowboy wild card and they throw the founder out and they get in somebody who's a real CEO, who's been trained to be a CEO, has CEO experience and then the company can double again if you get the right one. But so it happens to founders too. You've got to be a little bit cold blooded if you're the guy in charge and you're having to replace some top people around you. It's like we at all levels you're subject to that. But usually they've had so much growth and everything that you can make a happy thing, put them in another position, put them over something, another division or something but get somebody else Direct to you who's still as hungry as they were five or 10 years ago and is capable. What would you say? Look at good advice you got coming up.

I got tons of good advice. And one of the things I think one of the big advice I would say that really helped me along the way was that I was always told, whatever your vision is and whatever you're talking about, make sure you sell it. Go back to the idea of life is sales. The people around you, if you want to do something, you got to sell them on why they should join you, why it's going to be good for them, how it can change their life. Don't just ask for a commitment. Say, listen, I want to do abcd. I'd like for you guys to come along. You got to sit down and say, when we do A, B, C, D, here is what could happen to everybody. So one of the things that I think that has helped me over the years is that whatever we are venturing out, whatever we are talking about, we want to achieve the parties that are going to play a major role. I sit down with them and I show them how they will benefit. Yeah, it's going to be good for the team collectively. But here is what this could mean for you and mean for you and your family and mean for you in your life. And I think once we can sell that to them and says, this is something, yes, I want to play for the team, but there is some big gains for me as well. I found that over the years that has really helped me tremendously.

Fantastic. I'm looking at the clock here and realizing time has flown. And so, Bobby, I'm going to give you the chance to give a final word to wrap this up for everybody.

You know what I say to you, Larry, listen, we live in a part of the world. You can be anything you want to be. But remember, no one of us is good enough to get where we want there by ourselves. Surround yourself with the right people and if you don't have the right people, seek them out. Don't be afraid. Go out, find people. I always tell people, you know, one hour with a wise man is worth years of study. Find people who have been where you want to go and learn from them. If possible, ask them to mentor, seek whatever help you can get from people.

Who are successful or a wise woman. We know a lot of them. So anyway, thank you very much, Bobby. This has been great. Look forward to next time. Okay?

Thank you, Larry. Really appreciate it. It's always an honor and a pleasure to spend time with you and to learn from you.

Okay? Great, man. Thank you for listening to this episode.

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