Why Most Entrepreneurs Stay Small and How Mike C-Roc Became That One

in every game, you know, you're— there's always somebody better than you. It's always somebody lower than you. However, being that one means you're being authentically you. You know who you are, you know what you stand for, your non-negotiables, and, and, and you're clear on their mission, right? And leaning into it unapologetically. And that's what that one means to me.

Welcome to Big Hitters. I'm Larry Weidel, and this show is for people who are done playing small. Each week we break down what it actually takes to win at a high level— the decisions, the discipline, the adjustments that separate those who almost do it from those who do it. No theory, no fluff, just straight talk from someone who spent 50 years building winners. If you're serious about momentum, you're in the right place. Let's get into it. Hello everybody, we've got some exciting things to talk about with a gentleman known as C-Rock. Hello, C-Rock.

What's happening, Larry? Hey, I'm so thankful to be here, man. I saw that you were on the calendar and I was like, man, let's go.

And so, well, you're very, very kind. And you've been— you've done this over 1,200 times, is that right? You've been on. So congratulations to you. Over what period of time? How long does it take to accumulate that many appearances?

I did 7 to 10 shows a week for 5 years straight.

Oh, you did? Wow.

Yeah. If that tells you anything.

Yeah, you got good or you had somebody good at scheduling. That's what that tells me. And so to do— to have time management that consistent over that period of time, somebody's got to be organized for success, which is one of the great keys to greatness, is because we all have 24 hours in the day and there's no limit on— the only limit is what we can get done. And so see, T-Roc, how did you tell people about— you've got, you got a tremendous following on social media. I don't know where all you have a tremendous following. You've got a book. I believe there's probably tremendous following from the book and other things. What are the things? Where do you think you have your biggest audiences, would you say?

Well, you know, I think it has to be the podcast space because, you know, when you do 1,200 and then I've done over 1,000 episodes of my own show, the What Are You Made Of Show, you're tapping into other people's audiences and at scale. Right. And then you get, right.

Yeah.

You know, exponential exposure through that because whether it's just on the podcast that they do, their social media, their blog posts, the repurposing that I did with the content, cuz I'll always ask for the raw content to help promote the show and blasting that everywhere creates omnipresence. So I, I think that, I think that the podcast space is probably the biggest and then Instagram would be next.

And so, uh, let's just say you've been in this business how many years?

The podcast space, about 5 and a half years. And prior to that, yeah, prior to that, I was in the mortgage real estate space.

Okay. Now you're growing up. How do you wind up in the mortgage real estate space? What, what kind of course decisions did you make in life? You know, what caused you to wind up doing that?

Well, I was in in-home sales for 9 years from the age of early 20s And then I had some friends of mine that were going off into their life after college, and I saw what they were doing, and I saw the money that they were making in real estate. And, you know, one transaction, the commission was, you know, X amount of dollars. And I'm like, really, you can make that much money? I just didn't get it prior to that. Right. And so I started watching, and then I started thinking to myself, and I don't know if this is right or not, but I just, I'm just being honest with you. I started thinking to myself, if they could do it, Imagine what I could do with it because I was in home sales and I felt like I could, you know, I could handle that. And even though I didn't know anything about how to be a real estate agent or, you know, then become a loan officer, but I just thought that way. And it's like I think I don't know, like I said, I don't know if it's right or not, but I think it's a healthy way to think because it led me into creating a large operation from Philadelphia to Miami in the mortgage lending space where we were lending, you know, $4 to $7 billion with the organization that we were building. And so, yeah, that's how I got into it and basically just started executing. Once I had the thought, I just started executing.

By the way, I was just noticing while you were talking there, you know, your branding is just really spot on. I mean, I just love your sign behind. I love the, you know, your podcast, What Are You Made Of? And the CROC, all of that stuff. Congratulations on your branding. That's kind of like a parenthetic type thing. But you have to notice greatness. And I know you, you know, not to damn anyone to hell, but, you know, it's like, have a little thought about what you're doing. I have people on that I get in that are like, you know, superheroes, you know, incredibly successful in life. They get on and they cannot find a light to get on their friggin face on a podcast. And, you know, they've done hundreds of them. It's just like, get a light bulb. They cost A buck.

Yeah. I mean, like, you got to make sure you see this handsome face, you know what I mean? So I got a big light here. Yeah, of course. I want people to see me and then remember me.

Yeah. And so congratulations on your— you know, I really like your studio setup there, your branding. You know, you're doing— you know what this tells me now is you do things with a purpose and, you know, you're maximizing it, but you're not— it's not obnoxious in the sense that, you know, Some people, you could see them coming from so far away, you immediately start looking for places to hide. And first thing you do is go internally, you go into DEF CON 1 in terms of turning all the things. Yes, I'm smiling. We learned this in sales. The client that's nodding into this and the other to you, but you could tell they've already shut down. They're just going through the motions and they're trying to be agreeable so they can minimize the time it takes to get away from you. And so when, you know, you know, I guess one of the keys, maybe we'll get into this, one of the keys in branding, I'll ask you now, one of the keys in branding is to brand, to be definite, to be decisive, to be consistent, to be bold, but, you know, and specific, but to not be obnoxious, not overdo it. You know, the— you know, in life, it's always like, how do you do it but not overdo it and, you know, ruin, you know, ruin the soup by putting a drop of poison in there or something. And so how, you know, while we're— while we're on the subject, what jumps into your mind is something for people to think about on that subject.

Yeah. When I think about branding, I think about being a living demonstration. So I have a, uh, it's one of the premier top podcast agencies in North America where we take top guests and get them booked on top podcasts. It's called That One Agency. And then if I'm doing that and that's my company and I want people to, uh, you know, have a perception of credibility and authority, I have to be a living demonstration of what we do and how we operate. So if I came into your show and I'm talking about in the being in the podcast space and I have a crappy studio, or my lighting's terrible or I'm not prepared, what does that say about the company? So in branding, you know, to me, I think about how can I be a living demonstration of what we stand for? And we stand for being that one in your space. Okay. And that one to me is not meaning that you're the best. Okay. That best is subjective. There's levels to the game in every game. You know, you're— there's always somebody better than you, always somebody lower than you. However, Being that one means you're being authentically you. You know who you are, you know what you stand for, your non-negotiables, and, and you're clear on your mission, right? And leaning into it unapologetically. And that's what that one means to me. So that's what we stand for. And that's why I branded it this way. And it is taking off very quickly. And I'm thankful that I learned these things over the years and just being mentored by some of the great people on the planet. And when it comes to building a personal brand, building a company brand, And it's helped me in my personal life too, Larry. Like, you know, I want to be a living demonstration to my wife and my kids. And, you know, you can't do that unless you know who you are and you lean into it, you know, unapologetically.

The Bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. And I can tell you've got richness. You got rich veins of insight in all different areas here that's really wanted me to jump in and explore. But let me just on that subject, I think we can say that we need to say that to the people who would be critical of big hitters doing it big and being number one, that one in your area, like, what an egomaniac, what a selfish person, what of this, that, the other, you've gotten off the track. And they don't even like winners. Winners are selfish, high achievers, millionaires. Million-dollar earners, billionaires, that you're just selfish pigs. They get advantages. This, that, the other. And what they don't understand is the deal is, first of all, those things don't happen by themselves. And when they do, usually the people blow up and, you know, it doesn't last that long. But if you're going to get up there and stay up there, what happens is you learn things that will ripple into other areas of your life. Maybe not right off the bat. You know, maybe, you know, you screw up your personal life, your health, your this, that, the other. But if you're a winner, sooner or later you're realizing this is a— this is an area I've got to fix because it's dragging, it's dragging me down. I've got as far as I can go without fixing this. And so it has a— eventually it has a ripple effect of these principles of winning, which is really wisdom. You know, you're bringing wisdom into different areas of your life and you get better results. You know, it's a profitable way to live. And more, you find enjoyment not just from making making money, but from the, you know, health, you know, from fitness, from relationship with your spouse, your kids, your, you know, and so, you know, pretty much everything you put energy into, you get positive feedback results because you're doing it with principles that work. And so I was glad to hear you say that because winning has a ripple effect of benefits in your own life that you really don't think about when you get started. We think about, I gotta make more money. I gotta get good so I can make more money, you know? Yeah.

We gotta define winning though. We have to, we have, you know, winning is not making the most amount of money, uh, being the number one company. That one is not being, again, I'll say it's not about being number one. It's being that one. And that one is an authentic version of yourself. You see, in the Bible, it actually talks about the first will be last, the last will be first. I'm not concerned with being number one. I'm concerned with being that one, which means authentically myself and leaning into it. Looking to serve people. And, uh, you know, that's, that's the game for me. I, I mean, I want to make money, don't get me wrong, but I, but, but money comes after I, and the best way to tell you this is I made millions in the mortgage business, but I was not fulfilled. Very transactional, right? And then to counter that, in contrast, I've made money now serving, building something that really stands for something, serving, and the money still comes, but now I'm fulfilled with it, you know.

And so when you came— as you came up, what kind of environment? You know, I talk in my book Serial Winner that, you know, we all grow up, we don't know where— we don't know it at the time. We all grow up in a cocoon of the beliefs and experiences and talent level and of our family, you know, primarily our mother and then our father and extended relatives. And, you know, we're— we absorb all of their Conversations, a lot of times they're not even talking to us. They're talking amongst themselves. But those values and opinions get absorbed in us and we don't even realize. Wait a minute until, you know, I went through the same thing. Wait a minute. You can get paid other than by the hour or by the week. Wait, you can get paid on a commission? Why did nobody tell me this? And so, you know, even things like that, you know, is part of ourselves waking up to the world. What kind of world did you grow up in?

I grew up in a broken world, a lot of brokenness, a lot of drug addicts, alcohol, anxiety, depression, overdosing on prescribed medication, suicide, custody battles. I don't remember my parents together and did the every other weekend thing, the custody battle thing. Then you had stepparents and stepbrothers or sisters into the mix and, and then, and then the step people not getting along with that family and all that. I've been through a lot. Court, in court as a kid, trying to figure out if I was mature enough to make a decision on who I wanted to live with. Child psychologist, all that stuff. So, yeah, that's the kind of life I grew up in. However, I figured something out when I hit 40 years old. I figured something out that I was doing kind of subconsciously for 30, 40 years, was every time something came my way in the brokenness, I noticed that I would advance. And I was thinking to myself, like, why is that? Why is that? What am I doing that's doing this when other people will fall back crash. And what I found out, I created this actual, this Rocket Fuel Law, I call it. I wrote the book Rocket Fuel: Convert Setbacks, Become Unstoppable. And in this book, I talk about this concept of the Rocket Fuel Law, which is very simple, by the way. I don't need to get complicated. It doesn't have to be a real novel approach. Everything that comes your way, you have two places you could store it. You could put it in your trunk where it slows you down and weighs you down, or you can store it in your tank where it allows you to convert it into rocket fuel and you can become unstoppable. right? And so I was doing this thing, I was storing it there because I was converting into rocket fuel and I wasn't storing it in the tank. And I just codified that as simple as it is. I codified it. I wrote about it in the book to share with people that really, look, the end of the day, you've gotten through everything you've ever been through, but are you better off because of those things? Are you sharing a story of why you're like this? And that's what I noticed with the family members that I had that had problems in their life. They were always sharing a story with me. They were open with me. This is why I'm like this, Mikey. They used to call me Mikey when I was a kid. This is why my parents were alcoholics. My parents went through a divorce. This is why I'm like this. I could see right through it at 8, 9 years old. Like, you're, you're telling a story and you're shaping your future by the story you're telling. What was going on here?

Isn't that not amazing how perceptive kids are? You know, you think, you know, the biggest fools in the world are the, the adults that think they're fooling their kids. My kids don't know. Oh, your kids know all about it. They've known from day one. And, you know, It's amazing how that affects— can affect you. But I think, isn't there a great message of hope? And that's why you wrote the book. But what I like, what I like, what you've done is you realize these things and then you put them in writing, which is a great thing where you can pass it on to other people and you could really— I think that kind of set the— you know, for me, it kind of in a way, writing the book down of our experiences and successes in life and what we've learned. When you do it like that, you don't do it at the beginning of your life when you don't— you think you know things, but you don't know. But when you write it after you've been through the ups and downs, you like really roller coaster ups and downs, and then you have something to say. It can kind of be a platform for the rest of success of the rest of your life because you're kind of really clarifying to your own self what really works and what doesn't work. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, 100%, man. If you, you know, there's a lot of people out there on social media too talking about things that they've had not no experience with whatsoever, right? And you, you, people start, it's dangerous in a way, especially Larry, in the health and wellness space. There's a lot of biohacking longevity doctors and experts out there right now that are very good at marketing. They may not have the credibility, the expertise to be speaking on those things, and it becomes dangerous because people on social media start taking things as truth just because they see it on social media. And, you know, I know this for a fact because I have people in my family that'll say, hey, you know, they say you shouldn't drink coffee when you first wake up. Well, is that true or not? Or did you just see it on social media? I'm not saying it's true or false, but is that true? Or did you just hear a guy that has a big following on social media say that and then you're taking it as truth? You know, so definitely, you know, you have to go through experiences and and then share those experiences and the lessons you've learned from your experience instead of preaching at people.

Yeah. And the thing is that I think that's, that's kind of what we do in our own way is expose people to reality. And like you were talking to yourself, you got to be your own best self-coach. You got to get past the point that, you know, I grew up in this situation, you know, this is how I am, the way I am, or, you know, I was listening to this author and he told me to do this, or I listened to this. They told Larry Weidel told me to do that. I've just been following it. No, you got to— you got to turn your stinking brain on and say you are a unique person. Nobody's ever lived the life you've lived. No one's born with the, you know, the parents, the experiences, the talents, the abilities, the exposures you've had. You got to live your life. You know, you got to live your life. And so you got to figure out what works for you. And it's great to listen to these people. But life is infinitely complex. And you might find everything in your life like, you know, you see this, you folks, if you want to prove this yourself, go to the end of the finish line of a marathon. I like to tell people to go to the finish line and you're going to see people that have just run 26 miles. They're fat. They're skinny, they're, they're odd shape. They got thick legs or they have skinny legs and big, big, heavy, big guts. And then they got their arms go all around, you know, and they've just run 26 miles. And, and you might be thinking, well, I could never run a marathon this. Well, they did it in spite of all the weirdness they have. They're like, people are infinitely complex. And people say, well, if you're going to run a marathon, you got to train like this and you got to get a diet like this and you got to do that. Well, somehow They just ran the marathon and ignored all that crap, you know? So, you know, you got to get to the point where you go beyond kindergarten instruction and, you know, like, you know, you got to learn when you go to the doctor, you got to say, does that make sense to me? You know, and I tried it and that, you know, my body didn't like it. You know, go, you know, you can go get another doctor. You can go get, you know, different things work for different people and you got to be proactive. In running your life. And I think that's behind what motivates both of us is we're in the business of empowering people to use their thinking cap and, you know, to move forward. Because once, you know, once you get a little confidence, you understand that you can kind of trust your own judgment a little bit. And that's a big part of it early on, learning how to trust your own judgment, don't you think? By the way, if you're still listening right now, you're different. You don't just consume content, you're actively looking for an edge. And that's who I built the Big Hitter community for. Not people chasing motivation, people chasing momentum. Not theory, proximity. Proximity to operators who are actually in the arena making real decisions and winning at a high level. Inside Big Hitter, you get conversations we don't have on the podcast, direct access to people who build what you're trying to build in a room that holds you to a higher standard standard every single week. This isn't a hype group. It's not networking for the sake of networking. It's where serious people go to sharpen their thinking and compress their timeline. If you're done just listening and you're ready to be in the room where it actually happens, head to joinbighitters.com or click the link in the show notes. The right room changes everything. I'll see you inside.

Yeah, like, you got to be a free thinker, right? Like, most people on the planet want to be told what to think. This happens in politics, it happens in religion, it happens in market. They want to be told what to think, they want to be told what to do. And, you know, the most able people are self-determined and keep their own agency. And that's over their health. Like, a lot of people are going to the doctor, the everyday doctor nowadays, and listening to everything that doctor says instead of taking it back the information they got, maybe doing some research on their own. And now AI, now you can do as much research as you want as fast as possible. And then going back to that doctor and asking questions and saying, what about this? What about that? And if they don't align with that doctor's answers, they go find somebody else. That's what a free thinker, somebody that's self-determined and keeps their own agency does. Most people on the planet aren't like that. And I, I challenge everyone listening right now to think about that. Are you keeping your own agency in all aspects of life? Are you the type— and this can be fixed, and not that you're broken, but this can be adjusted, I'll say— are you keeping your own agency and self-determinism? Because if not, you're just being pulled in a direction by someone else that has strings upon you.

Let's unpeel where you came from before you started the podcasting thing. What was the first thing you did out of, you know, school or out of high school? And, you know, where did you start to to build your skill set and find out what I'm good at, what you're good at.

Yeah, a lot of principles started in athletics. I played college football, played football since I was a junior, you know, I wrestled in high school, played baseball, and I had a lot of great mentors, a lot of coaches that I, you know, paid attention to. And, you know, from, from when we're on the baseball field, talking to the umpire with respect, saying sir, not arguing calls, you know, being respectful to others, thanking and being grateful for others after the game, shaking the umpire's hand. Thank you for, for coming out today. We really appreciate you. And being taught those things starts to formulate this character that you carry forward in life. And then I got into the restaurant business, and then that led into getting into in-home sales. And all along had mentors in those spaces. I was always looking for that. And that could have been because of the situation I had as a kid where, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't see my father after 11 years old for 10 years. And I had a stepfather that stepped in that did the best he could. Thank God. But I was always looking for mentors. And so I took all the information that I would get and just absorbed it and then acted with it and shaped who I became through those experiences and through that mentorship. And then, you know, in-home sales, I did that and cut my teeth in that. And I, I eventually led me into the mortgage and real estate business, which we started as a real estate agent and a loan officer, and then eventually just started elevating into management and then opening branches and then having a whole organization from Philadelphia to Miami, hundreds of employees.

Well, let's unpack that, if you don't mind, C-Rock. What you said, like, shot right over the head of a lot of people, you know? You know, it's like I enjoy hearing the college and pro coaches after the game, especially the top ones, like a Nick Saban. They'll interview him after the game and he'll go, you know, what did you think, coach? And he'll go, he'll put up, put up, put up. He'll have like a masterclass in 30 seconds on the game and everything. It'll go like boom right over the heads of everybody. They have no idea. I, you know, one of my goals is to, is to be able to pay somebody to go in and put, put together a mashup of Nick Saban's talks after the game or like Phil Jackson, you know, when he was with the Lakers. It's like, because it's just like so much wisdom packed in there. You folks, you don't know that, but C-Rock just did that. And so the thing is that, you know, because We hear it because we hear it all the time. But what you did was, first of all, you went in the restaurant business. And, you know, the thing is, you— I don't know how much you thought about, but you learn things in the restaurant business because everywhere you went, I'm imagining everywhere you went, you got better. You found out things, you developed skills, you had friends, this, that, the other. But even in the process of finding out this eventually is not my path long term, but you use that to your advantage. Would you say that, like, even in the restaurant business, right out of the gate?

Oh, for sure. I mean, I remember nights where I had probably 8 tables and I'm running crazy and I'm pissing people off because I'm not getting back to them as fast as possible. And hey, I'm doing the best I can, but like, it was miserable. I hated it because I wanted to be the best at it and I wanted to make sure people were happy with it. And, and yeah, of course. And I learned how to systematize things and how to get organized and for sure, how to talk to people, how to handle situations that are tough conversations. Right. And, you know, that's how I got into in-home sales, because one of the guys that was my regular at the restaurant invited me to come work for him in the, in the, in the sales business. Right. And so being a living demonstration started when I was younger. You know, I understand that people are— here, a concept I always, always operate under is people are always watching. So if people are always watching, what are they watching? What show are you putting on? Right. So demonstration is such an important principle. What are you demonstrating? And that keeps you, keeps you on track.

And you, you know, my guess is because of that experience in the restaurant business, you were much more effective once you got a shot to get in the in-home sales than if you would be right off the football team, right out of college. Would that be safe to say?

Yeah, because building rapport with people like like you go into a home and people, strangers you've never met before.

Yeah.

And the end goal is to sell them something that they need, serve them, right?

Yeah.

But how do you— you don't go right into selling them, right? You got to build relationship, you got to get— build relatability, you got to get on the same plane as them and be able to get into communication with them. You see, Larry, I figured something out early on, is that the more you communicate with people, the more agreement you have with them. And then also with those two paired together, there's a thing called affinity.

Yeah.

And when you communicate with people, your affinity grows, your agreement grows, right? So in sales and when I go into houses, one of the things you learn is, is that if you agree with someone, you're going to communicate better with them and they're going to like you better versus not agreeing with them. Even if they say something you don't agree with, just, yeah, I'm with you. I get it. I understand where you're coming from. right? And those things helped me get into connection with people, right? And it allowed me to do my job, which was presenting something to them that they may need and then being able to close a sale. So there's so many lessons, man. I could, I could probably write another book on all the lessons I've learned for sure.

Well, and I think they're important, you know, and I think they could be every bit as beneficial as the one you've written so far for. And so, Okay, we've got one of your newest, your next 500 assignments there. So, but the thing is that because those are lessons that were hard earned and to say it another way for the people who are listening here, the takeaway from that is when you're interested in other people and you are interested in serving them, you notice CROC did say he went in, he was gonna, you know, got real good at selling it. He got real knowledgeable about, you know, that, you know, how high quality all the ingredients, you know, all the parts of the home were, you know, and, you know, and all the technical expertise. Nobody knew the technical aspect better than me, you know. And the trouble with the overdose on the technical stuff, like we were in financial services, when you go in there, they use a different language and they have all this stuff. It seems so confusing. But once you get a feel for it, the trouble is You're terrible with a client because you want to— you're so proud of yourself from learning this crap. You want to tell everybody what you've learned.

A lot of people get into a business in sales and they're selling something and they rock it right out of the gates. And it's not because they know how to sell and they're good on the tactics. It's they don't know enough to know to mess things up.

Can I tell you— can I tell you two stories? We had a guy. He used to— he said exactly the same thing. But, you know, to your point, he said when he got in there, he started selling these organs, you know, play-by-number organs in the mall. And he said when he got in there, he's so fascinated. I could play the organ. Unbelievable. They want you to come to work with us, he said. I'd love it. So he gets in there and he goes, come in here, look, you can learn how to play the organ or play piano. Just follow the numbers. Isn't that great? And so he was selling them just like hotcakes. But he said over time he got more knowledgeable. This is the wood model. This is the maple. This is the walnut. And then over here, the electronics are better. He said, the more I learned, the more the sales went down. And then we had a, I can remember sitting on a panel in Orlando with 4 or 5 other guys and somebody in the back of the room asked the guy next to me who was, you know, he went to a million dollars income like in no time. And he said, Mike, he said, how did you avoid getting bogged down in all the details early on in the, you know, early on in the business when you came in? How do you keep from getting bogged down with all the technical stuff. And my— and we're in financial services, you got to have licenses and this and the other. I'm looking over saying, this ought to be Rich how he answers this. And he said, well, frankly, I never bothered to learn too much about the business to begin with.

Yeah, because, well, that's the, that's the old features and benefits, right? Like, they, they switch when they start to learn more, they start talking about the features, and then they don't even talk, touch on the benefits. And the, the customer cares about What's— how's this going to benefit me?

Right.

And that's where it throws off the balance.

And when you are concerned about them rather than, you know, what they need, you're going to be asking questions to find out that. And you're going to be giving them an opportunity to talk. You're not going to— because all poor salespeople are focused entirely on what they're going to say. What am I going to say? How am I going to present? How am I going to overcome the objection? Da da da da da. And so what the pros are back there like, you know, asking a question and then just let, let it unfold. And then they'll throw another question in there. And then the people wind up loving them because they found somebody who'd actually listen to them. And you save so much time because you're not trotting out things that if you listen a little bit, ask a question, you can find out they're not going to have any interest in that whatsoever. And you can give them exactly what they're interested in and get the, the deal done. So you found yourself very successful in that world. And what did that do for you personally? You know, as far as having that success, confidence, it built confidence, right?

I mean, when you start attempting something and executing on something and you started getting results, the confidence builds and then you walk a little differently, you enter rooms a little differently, right? But one thing about what I was doing is, is that I was never satisfied that that's what I was going to be continuing on with. And I would look and see other things that I could do that I could be fulfilled with. And that's what transferred me out of that in-home sales business into the mortgage real estate business. And then from there, making strides and accomplishing things. But then it came to another point where if I keep going with this, what's the next step? Well, the next step is something I don't want to do, and I'm not going to stay stagnant where I am. And why am I coming home after, after, you know, making 8-figure, you know, creating an 8-figure business? Why am I coming home to a beautiful wife of 22 years, 2 healthy kids, a house on the water? Why am I coming home miserable? There was, there was a conflict there. And I started to realize, wait a minute, why am I feeling like this? I thought I was doing everything I was supposed to be doing, right? Healthy family, uh, kids, you know, house, successful business, helping others make money.

Well, the company was growing. Company was growing.

Yeah, company was growing, but it wasn't it. And so when I hit 40, I, I realized, Larry, that I felt trapped because the money was so good. And I was a college dropout, by the way, and I thought I found something. I, even though I'm a college dropout, I still was able to do this. However, I started to realize I was trapped. I felt trapped. It was a state that I put myself in and I started to realize, wait a minute, I, I can't do this the rest of my life. I gotta figure something out. And that's when I made a decision. I need to figure the next thing, the next move. And while I'm doing that, I'm gonna start winding this thing down. And so I started being mentored by some of the greatest people on the planet. I started working on myself. Okay. Some of the things I'm sharing with you today—

Talk about that. Talk about that.

Yes.

How did you find— how did you find the people to be mentored by? There's another smart thing that you did, whether it might be by accident or whatever. When you made the jump into the mortgage business, you chose a good one. Because the thing is, you could have jumped into a mortgage business with a company that was poorly run, not going anywhere, and you run into a, you know, a dead end. So the thing is, folks, I learned from the CROC, you know, make sure you're jumping into a situation. If you're going to change, switch industries, which I've done, if you're going to switch industry, get, you know, do a little thinking about it. Make sure there's people that inspire you there that, you know, you feel like this can be good for me. I don't know if it's going to be long term, but this can be good. I can, I can, I can enjoy it. I can have success. But because a lot of times you get in a company or an industry that's going nowhere. And you're just running, you wind up losing your, your inspiration. But when you go in and you have success and the company's growing, you know, you're feeding off of that. There's places that open up where you can get promoted and keep going out and out there, expanding here, expanding there, and you get bigger and bigger responsibility. It keeps you energized and your confidence continues to grow and it pretty much prepares you for bigger and bigger things down the road, whether it's in that industry or another one. But choose the right company, choose the right industry.

Industry.

That's, that's one thing I want to point out. You did the right thing there.

Yeah, thank you. And one thing also is to notice that the lack of control or the control you have, right? So what I started to notice in the mortgage industry, it was very commoditized and I didn't like not being able to differentiate myself. It was always who's got the best rates, the best closing cost, right? And, and then the other thing is when rates go up, you could lose 80% of your business and not be able to do anything about it, right? So I wasn't okay with that. So things that were going through my head is I got to get into something where I have more control and I can differentiate myself. I can become that one. And then I don't have people shopping me. I don't have people saying, you know, trying to beat me up over price because they can't get what I created. Now, what we're doing now, they can't get that anywhere else. And that's what the power of being that one is, is that you differentiate yourself so much that they can't go down the street and get what you're offering.

Where did you get that idea of that? That was a large— to a large degree, the reason why I got out of homebuilding myself, you know, and switched industries, went into financial services way back in, you know, back in the 1800s. But the, the thing is that where did the idea of that one come to you? That idea?

Yeah. So I was— I started going on podcasts because my mentor, a mentor of mine told me, dude, you got to get known globally. You're too powerful not to be known globally. And I was like, I don't know about all that. I've been on the COVID of regional magazines, on television, regionally, this and that. I don't, I'm not really big on the ego thing. He's like, yeah, you're thinking ego. He said, I'm talking about impact. And if you get known globally, what's going to happen is you're going to create an attraction model. You're going to get opportunities and people pulling in the right ones. And just as important, the wrong ones will be repelled from you. I said, that makes sense, man. Yeah, I like that. But I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to get known globally. He said, you don't need to know how to get known globally. You need to commit. He's like, if you knew the how and you weren't committed when it got tough or you didn't feel like it, you wouldn't do what it takes. You just need to commit, go all in, lean into it. And I said, all right, I got it. That makes sense. I got you. I'm all in. Let's go. What do I got to do? He said, now go get on podcasts. And I said, which ones? He said, all of them. By the way, this is Grant Cardone. Some of you may have heard of him. You know, I studied all his books. I just started leaning in. I resonated with his story, and that's what got me right. Your story is important. And, uh, as I was being mentored, I don't, I don't agree with everything he said, and I saw some flaws that all human beings have, but I was taking the good from it and applying it. And so when I heard go on all of them, it triggered something in me and I started going on podcasts, figuring out ways to get on podcasts. And that's how I ended up doing 7 to 10 a week guest appearances for 5 years straight. And as the months would go by, Larry, I would have bigger shows, you know, welcoming me on. I'd have live stages to the point where I was speaking on in front of 15,000 people with presidents and billionaires and people I'd see on TV. And that ended me up into the green room with those folks. And about a year or so ago, I was in the green room with Tucker Carlson and RFK Jr. because they were speaking at the same event as I was. And we were talking in the green room and they were talking to me like I was a peer. And I'm like, wow, wait a minute, this stuff works. Like, this podcast stuff really works. Consistent application of it. And so then from there, my network expanded drastically. To the point where I'm one of the most connected people on the planet because of what I've done. Now, I can use that network to a degree, but I started to realize that I was underutilizing it and I felt bad about it. I felt like I was tying my self-worth to the fact that I wasn't utilizing the network as effectively as I maybe could be. And I was in prayer one day, and I have a great relationship with God and Jesus, and I talk about, you know, I talk, I pray all the time, all day, every day. And one day in prayer, I was like, I just don't know what to do with this network. I'll surrender to whatever you tell me to do. Just like, I don't know what to do here. I feel like I'm underutilizing this. And what came to me from that prayer was, I didn't give you this network for you. I gave this network to you for other people. This network is about other people. It's not about you. You're supposed to be the catalyst to connect people to do amazing things together with the mission that I've given them. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, Larry. I was like, man, I got it. I don't know how I didn't get this before. And from that point on, I started thinking about how can I utilize this network to help other people, connect other people. And that's how the podcast game came around because people kept coming to me saying, hey, I need this connection. I need capital. I need this. I need that. Can you get me booked on podcasts? And I said, people have a problem here, man, and I can solve it. And that's how that one agency started, where we were starting to work with the top people out there, New York Times bestselling authors, movie producers. Top biohacking longevity doctors and experts, billion-dollar CEOs, and connecting them and getting them booked and handling that for them, uh, on great podcasts so they get their message out. And I don't have to be the expert in all these different categories to have the impact that they're having on people.

Again, my mind's going in 14 different directions. What companies do you have right now? How many companies have you— well, I know what I was going to ask. I was going to ask you about the book. Where, where in the process did the book come?

It was early on when I started going on podcasts and I realized a lot of people had books and I needed something to talk about on the show because I didn't have a company at the time.

That was going to be my next question. It's like you get started now, you've got other, other credentials and, you know, but you don't get all kind of credentials. But in the beginning, people want to, you know, what's your basis? You did great in your company selling houses or selling mortgages and, you know, what does that mean to me? You know? And so the thing is, How did you crystallize that? And how long was it before you came up with the book?

I would say about a year into the podcast game when I was starting to go on shows. And what I was doing is I was being mentored and working on myself. And as I would learn something and apply it, I would then share it because I think that really ingrains that knowledge that you've just picked up, right? And I would just repetitively, consistently just talk about the things I'm learning and how it applied to my life in the past. I looked, One thing I'm really good at is I take things that I learn and I look back at my life and I say, okay, why did I fail there? And why did I have success there based on this, this concept I just learned? And then I would carry that forward to Calls and Create a Future. And so I would just be, I would just honestly and authentically just share these things over and over and over again. And it resonated with people. And then eventually that's, it led into having an amazing network, which I had to figure out a way to utilize that network.

How'd you go about writing the book?

I did 5 solo episodes of my show first, and then I took that, transcribed it, and then, uh, some podcast appearances that I did, and I transcribed it and basically used the transcription as a brain dump. And then from there we just structured the book into chapters, and then I had a guy clean it up, of course an editor, and then the rest is history.

Companies that you have now today, what is EDI? You know what? What— where's the weight of where your time is going other than how much— how much podcasting and— and of your own show and then guesting are you doing right now? And, you know, what's— where's the weight of your schedule go now?

Well, I do 10 to 15 podcasts a week, and that's a mix of guesting and hosting. But my job is to build relationships and bring more people into the network. The network for me is a pool that I can use to connect others, to create value for others, and also feed my companies. So we have that one agency, which is the top podcast booking firm in North America. The guests come to us as clients and we book them on shows. That's number one. Number two, I started having this amazing network and I was like, wait a minute, these people know me and I know them, but they don't know each other. I gotta figure out a way to centralize these people. And so I created a WhatsApp group and that WhatsApp group is invite only. It's free, but I bring the right people into that group so that they can collaborate and connect and network, provide value to people. I don't make a dime from that point. But then also then from there, people were coming to me and saying, hey, look, we'll invest in this, but we need you to build something that we can get together and go deeper with you, have access to your resources, your network, get together for events, our own events. And I said, all right, that sounds great. Then, uh, I've been studying neuroscience and quantum and quantum physics. And I said, let me put something together called That One Quantum Expansion, because I believe if we bring the right people together, And we have deep conversations and we bond and we get together in person that we can actually create quantum expansion. And that is, quantum is something little, right? It's the particle, smallest particle. And how can we get those smallest, the little things to expand drastically, right? And so we've brought, we put that idea out there and we had 20 people sign up right away. And then we had our first event in Beverly Hills. We rented a $25 million mansion, brought everybody together for a long weekend. And the reason, by the way, the reason I did that at that particular place, I saw this place in Beverly Hills online and I said, we got to do it there because there was an aesthetic to it. And I have a saying, Larry, aesthetic is magnetic. When people walked in the door, they pushed this big giant wood door open. And when they walked in, you could hear music playing like, oh, it was like, it was just a big wide open space with high aesthetic. And just by walking in that door, people expanded. There was a degree of expansion in their beingness and their ability just by walking in that door. Okay, so that's what we're creating. And we were doing another event in South Florida coming up here in January. And I'm just— look, I just want to continue to provide a space for people to expand. And, and that's— so that's the other part of our business is, is that one quantum expansion.

I found the, the same experience I used to have for 13 years. Actually, I turned it over to someone else that ran for 30 years. I ran it the first 13, a leadership event out in Aspen. And it was that when we ended, we were the longest continuing leadership event or convention out there. But just when people get there and get off the plane and they're surrounded by mouths, right there you had them. You know, you could stick them on the plane and send them home. And then when you— then you get them in the room like they have the— the St. Regis is one of the big hotels there. You get them in the room, it doesn't matter what they hear, they're going to feel like the angel saying— because it's not what they heard, it's what's triggered in their mind that, you know, they get unlocked. You know, a lot of people carry so much treasure around in their mind that's just locked up because I think it's on the creative side of the brain. But it's locked up because the logical side of the brain knows you just are not ready to do anything with it. So I'm not going to let— I'm not going to let any of those secrets out yet. Yeah, but when you get to that environment, like, okay, sounds like he's ready to go here, let me give you some ideas and see what he does with them.

Yeah, well, and a lot of those things are held back by the beliefs people carry, which are decisions after failure, decisions we make after pain. Decisions we make after trauma. And those decisions we make become set in as beliefs, and that creates the future that we're living. So all these treasures you're speaking of have like a, a key, a lock on them. And what that lock is, is that belief that they've created from the past, best based on a trauma or a pain. And until that breaks and they make a new decision, which becomes a new belief, they will be held back and suppressed. So for me, I'm just trying to break those locks. Like, let's break those locks. Like, what are those locks on your, on your treasures? And let's, let's create an opportunity for them to release and, you know, become more able and a higher state of beingness.

I love it. And I wish I'd thought earlier to wrap this. Time's got— I'll tell you, my confession is the last 15 minutes, the time's gotten away from me because I was having so much fun listening to you. And the thing is that we need to wrap up this portion of the podcast for the public. And CROC, what would you say is a final, final word to send people away with?

Oh man, there's so much I could talk about. But look, at the end of the day, we got to really get clear on who we are, right? And who we want to be. And then from there, really explore where our belief lids are. Like, what— where's the lids to our beliefs? And let's figure that out. Let's, let's break those lids open. And expand. Because one thing I don't want to do, Larry, is I don't want to meet my creator one day and he'd say to me, look, I gave you all this and this is what you did. Yeah, right. And not everybody— that doesn't resonate with everybody, and that's fine. But for those that it resonates with, let's, let's do the most we can with what we've been given.

All right, everybody. Fantastic time spent with C-Rock. Unpack this thing. Listen to it 2 or 3 times if you're motivated to, because there's tons of insight inside here that can be— can really help you unlock yourself so you can go and become that one. And so look for C-Rock on the What Are You Made Of podcast. Look for his book. And hopefully we're going to have C-Rock become a friend and come back again and again. So thank you, C-Rock.

Thank you, Larry. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

That's it for this episode. If this resonated with you, do me a favor, share it with someone who's ready to level up. Winners find winners, and the right conversation at the right time can change everything. Want to go deeper? Join us inside the Big Hitter community at joinbighitters.com. That's where the real work happens. And if you haven't already, subscribe so you don't miss the next one. Remember that you're either growing or dying, and there's no standing still. Keep winning, and I'll see you next week.