A Bigger, Better Team Begins With Stronger Lead Generation and Conversion Strategies w/Chris Snow

Welcome back to Real Estate Team Builders. This is Lars Hedinborg, the founder of Real Estate B School. This is going to be an awesome conversation. We're going to chat with Chris Snow today. What is he Northeast Florida, right?

Northeast Florida, yes.

In Augustine, Jacksonville.

That's exactly it.

Awesome. So 220 sides this year, 90 million in volume, 2.4 million. GCI had the honor to partner with Chris in Real Estate B school back in 2016 through 18 in some of his growth years. And the challenge that is building a real estate team and just a high level guy that I'm honored to introduce the listeners to. So Chris, give us like a minute or two, like how long in real estate? You know, tell us a little bit about the complexion of your team and give us a quick overview here.

Absolutely. So yeah, great being in your, in your program for 16 to 18. Got a lot out of that during our time there. Started in real estate in 2004. So I've been in just over 17 years, years now. 2010 left the brokerage that I was at, ReMax and started my own independent brokerage. We focused a lot on REOs. 2013, 14. We started the market, see the market shifting and so we opened up a second retail location. By 2015 we had bought a franchise. And as part of that franchise, one of the things that we saw was that we really needed to be more team based than a traditional brokerage. And so we really started growing that team starting about 2015, 14. The way our team is made up right now, we've got about 21 sales associates on our team. A good 13 or 14 of those have been with us a majority of 2021. So we've got quite a few people that came on towards the end of last year that are now starting to ramp up and do production this year. So we're kind of excited to see how that looks.

Yeah. Awesome. And I'll say this and you're going to unpack it for us here. The reason you can scale up in that way to go from like 10 agents to 20 agents is pretty much the three points we're going to go through today. We're going to go through lead management, lead conversion and ramping up new agents. So thinking of what's the most logical order because you're doing all three of those things at the highest level that I've seen most team leaders do it. Where do you think, where should we start?

I think it goes with the lead generation because in order to grow a team, first you've got to have Enough business to, to feed them. Right. Why would somebody come and join your team if you've got barely enough business to pay your own bills and to live off that. So you've got to have an excess of leads. And for me what I found is that really since 2010, 11, it's always been Internet lead generation. So Google pay per click, Bing pay per click, Facebook lead ads, you know those types of force registration leads gets a lot of high quality, longer term, but high quality leads into the team members hands so that when they come we already have a bucket of leads that they can call from because we've got a bunch of excess and people who haven't done anything. Plus we have about 300 new leads, 350 new leads coming in every month.

This is awesome because I consider myself to be a systems builder, but I know you're even more thorough and you've gone deeper in this area because at some point, what was it like three years ago, we completely tapped out. We're like, this is too hard. We're getting like a third to a half as effective ROI that you're getting on lead source. I think you mentioned six, seven times ROI and it's 40% of your sales. So let's get into it. So you know these are realtor.com, zillow pay per click.

A majority are going to be Google pay per click and Facebook. We've done Zillow and it's some op City, but therealtor.com, we really scaled back from that at the end of 2020 and really 2021 was filling our bucket mainly with our PPC leads, you know, pulling people that have been in our buckets for a year, two years and just nurturing and having enough people to go in and call them. And what we found was that, you know, an interesting thing is, is that a Zillow lead today is what a PPPC lead was six months ago. And when I say that is the person starts at PPC six months ago and they don't get nurtured properly and then they end up on Zillow. And now you're having to pay 130, $150 for that lead where you could have got it for nine bucks and nurtured it. And that, that was the turn for us was really figuring out how do we, how do we get the leads in work, the ones that are low hanging fruit as quickly as possible and the ones that are nurturing, making sure that we've got system that we are focusing on the People who are spending time on our website and calling people who are more likely to answer.

Okay, so let's break it down here for those that are struggling with making these lead sources work. So pay per click, making the leads work and getting the kind of ROI that you're getting. Let's break it down into a few steps. What are the most important things that someone needs to start doing or do better than they're probably doing?

So the first one is if they are paying for Zillow and Realtor, if they're getting a good return, I would say keep doing that, but just know that your business is at the hands of a third party that could turn that off at any time. Right. Google ppc. If you're not doing it, it's very cost effective. It's a great way. Again, as you're, it's very hard to scale a team with, with Zillow and Realtor. It's just, it's too expensive and you've got it. You don't have enough leads coming in for the team to feel like, hey, I've got enough leads to work with on a daily basis or on a monthly basis. So you've got to have those good, high quality leads that they're not going to transact today and, and, and know that they're going to transact six months from now, seven months now, from eight months from now. If you're starting from scratch, you've got to start to build that bucket up. So I would say right now is turn on the faucet. You're going to have more leads than you can, than you can really handle right away. Unless you've got people right now that you can plug into those, contact them right away and treat them like they are long term. Okay? So as you and I, if you, if you just came in, Lars, I'm not going to say, hey, Lars, man, are you ready to go see some houses? I'm going to say, hey, Lars, thanks for connecting with us. I know you're a year, two years away from doing something. I'm curious, what are you liking about what you're seeing online so far? And so it's really taking all the pressure off of the customer that you know that, hey, I'm not, I know you're not going to do something for a long time. And all of a sudden now, once they know that you're not in it for the I need you to buy something today, their guard lets down and they stay in. When you ask them their opinion, they're going to Give it to you. And so it's just making it conversational right off the bat, taking all the pressure off of them. So I would say that if they're not good at converting those or they say, oh, I don't get a good return on my, on my PPC leads, it's typically because they're trying to treat them like a Zillow or an open house or a, you know, a right now lead versus a further down the road lead.

Yeah, and that's a, that's a key point. What percent do you estimate are, you know, buy in the first 90 days from registering versus, you know, 3 to 12 and then 12 plus months, 1%.

Will do something, maybe 2% in the first 90 days. And then really from that three month to about nine months, you might see another 3 or 4%. Possibly you get beyond 12 months and now all of a sudden you're talking 8 to 10% are going to do something. Right. And for me, it's all about building up a pipeline that whether it's paying me today or it's paying me five years from now or seven years from now. We closed one last year. It's the longest we had nurtured elite. Seven years. It was in our database. And they came back around, they bought a $700,000 property. Now they may have bought two other houses during that time period. It's just that we kept them in our system, we kept reaching out to them and if they didn't buy something prior to that, it just, it was a long term nurture. But even if somebody tells us today, hey, I just bought a house, which we get that. Awesome, great. We put them in our nurture program because they're going to be a seller three years from now, five years from now. So why go pay for a new lead five years from now when I already got them?

Yeah. That's awesome. So let's talk about the specifics around lead conversion, lead management. You know, you train inside our game changers nation, which is a big organization with, within exp. And I know you teach this stuff every week, but break it down for those that are looking really to scale a real estate team. You know, when you talk about keeping in touch for a year or two or three years, text sequences, email sequences, property searches, dialers. Let's break down the system.

Yep. So we use, I'll start with the technologies that we use. Our CRM is follow up boss. And so inside of the CRM we have our own texting capabilities. We have different phone numbers than our cell Phone. All right, so the customer is seeing a CRM phone number, not my personal cell. All of those are every communication that we have with the customer is recorded within the CRM. So when we make a phone call out from the dialer that's built into it, it also records the phone call. So we can train and we can go back and listen to notes and stuff like that. The websites that we use, Follow up boss is not a website. So we use two different website providers. One is Ylopo and the other is Sierra. And each of those has their, their our own rationale for why we use one versus the other. One of the things that we like with Ylopo is it does have an AI component to it which means that when my agents may not be doing what they're supposed to be doing, there's an artificial intelligence that's built in that sending text messages to the customer to get them to respond back. Sierra, we use, they've got a real nice front end website. Good. Converting front end website. So we use website to, to bring the PPC leads in. We use Y Lopo to bring in the Facebook leads. And between the three technologies it's, it's been very effective for us. You don't have to use all three. That's just what we found over time that makes it a little bit easier for us. We do not do generic text or drip campaigns when it comes to emails. And if you think about the reason why is that a PPC lead goes on, you know, goes onto Google. They type in homes for sale in Charlotte. Right. Whatever the, whatever their keyword is, they want to look at houses and they don't want to get spam emails. So we, we stay away from drip emails and we, if we're going to send an email it's got to be very specific to where the customer is in the process. And so we talk about it be okay to be on the journey with the customer from them starting with just looking to I'm ready to buy. And our follow up process is. And we'll, we can break it down in just a little bit but really I call it being relevant and not annoying. When's the last time you took a long trip with your, with your kids in the car? Not, not in a plane.

We fly for that reason. Okay, so we just went to Kentucky which is a six hour drive but we took the 35 minute flight.

Yeah. So, so we'll go two hours to Orlando and literally we're 10 minutes into the drive and my youngest is like hey, are we there yet? Are we there yet? That get, that gets annoying, right? And if all we're doing is picking up the phone and saying, lars, are you ready to buy? Are you ready to buy? And you do this for a year, they're like this guy's not bringing any value to me. So we say be relevant, don't be annoying. And how do we be irrelevant? How are we relevant? I cannot do it with a, with a standard drip campaign. So what I do is how we teach it is when you're looking at the customer's behavior, be specific to what they're doing. So if I know that they're looking in Charlotte, right, and they're looking in Uptown, I'm going back from memory here. I'm going to say, hey, there's some really good deals in uptown, do you want me to send those over to you? Versus hey, it's spring cleaning time. You know the same boilerplate emails that you get from everyone that's like, look, this guy doesn't know what I mean, you know, and then you're one click away from the customer saying unsubscribe. And now all of a sudden I cannot market to them. So if I'm sending something to them by email, it daggum better be as precise as it possibly can to their particular situation because once they unsubscribe for me on the email, I'm going to have a hard time getting what I want delivered, which is property alerts. That's why they sign up, they want to look at pretty houses. So we always make sure there's pretty houses going to them every single day.

Awesome. And that's, that, that's managed. That's outside of your follow up boss. Your follow up boss is just to organize the contacts and then Y Lopo and Sierra are sending out the property alerts.

That is correct. That is correct. And for us, if we've never spoken with someone, then we allow follow up boss or Sierra to create the initial alert that goes out and we go in and we look at it and we say okay, this person, based on what Y Lopo or Sierra put as their search, got their seven homes for sale. Okay? That is not enough for me to be in front of that customer every single day when I do their search. So I'm going to set up a second search and, and I'm going to make sure there's 150 properties in there. I don't care whether it's the right property or not because I want my branding, which is pretty houses to go into their inbox every morning. So every morning when they wake up, they have something there. If I got. If there's only seven houses available for the search that's set up by the system, chances are another email may not go out for three weeks. Okay, that person's forgot about me. Oh, there's no other houses available. Let me go to another website to find them.

Are you personally. So when someone registers, are you personally texting them as well?

Yes. Yeah. So our initial cadence is as soon as a lead comes in, we pick up the phone, we call. If they don't answer the phone, we're going to let it play all the way through the end. We're going to try to see if the voicemail matches the phone number, the name that's on the registration. If it's a generic, we just make a note in their generic voicemail if it matches, or if it's a guy that's. That's on the voicemail, but it's a woman's name. We just kind of put a note for the next person who potentially is going to call. Just so we know that. Okay, we don't know whether it's a good phone number or bad phone number yet. And. And we'll immediately hang up. We do not leave voicemail messages at all for anyone we have not spoken with. Okay, that's the important piece. We don't leave voice messages unless we've spoken with someone. We hang up, we immediately dial them back a second time. After we've listened to the voicemail, we hang up, we call them again, and if they go to voicemail again, we hang up and we send a text message and we say, is this blank, Whatever the name is that's on the registration? And if they say, yes, who is this? We have a text message that we send out that says calling now. And then we're. We're immediately calling that person back. And all we're trying to do is find out is this a number that we need to keep calling or not? And if they don't respond to the text message, that's okay. You know, we'll. We'll keep calling until someone says, no, this isn't Larry. This is Sheila. Okay, great. You know, Larry put this number as a good contact number, you know, to look at houses. Is that incorrect? Do I need to update the information? Yes. Great. Now we're taking them now. We're not dialing that person anymore. Now that saves us time. We can dial another number.

All right, so let's talk about this. Let's talk about. I imagine if you went back to just you working a reasonable amount of leads, where it was just you and your skill set and your understanding of how all these pieces work, that you could probably get a lot better than the return you're getting now. And that's no. I don't know any of your real estate agents. So it's nothing personal. If you're an agent on Chris Knows team, it has nothing to do with you. So how do you go from, like, Kris can do this? Probably 12 to 1.

Yep.

And now you drop to a number below that, which is still acceptable. Right. Because you can scale what. What have been some of the lessons learned as you've dialed the systems in for yourself personally, and then you've kind of taken yourself not totally out of it, but you've taken yourself out, and now the system runs with new agents coming on board. So tell us about that process.

Yeah, so. So the first thing that we take our agents through is what you lack in skill, you have to make up in volume. If you suck on the phone, which we all suck on the phone, and we suck for a while until we don't suck anymore and we get a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better. And so it's being okay that my first month I may need to make. And this isn't conversations, this is just dials. I may have to make 200 dials a day for the first 30 days, five days a week, till I have enough conversations that I feel much more comfortable. And then 30, 40, 50 days, 60 days later, all of a sudden, hey, what I used to stammer over, now all of a sudden, I've already got. I've already got the. I've already got the responses down pat. Right. I've heard there's only so many different ways that someone could say, I'm not interested. I didn't mean to do that. There's only so many objections that you have to overcome. It's just being okay to do it. And if you're, if you're only going to do a little bit at a time, it's going to take you a heck of a long time to get good. And, you know, when I got on the phone the first time, you know, 12 years ago, 13 years ago, calling Internet leads, it was a little bit different. But I sucked back then. But you could suck back then and nobody else was doing it. So you actually had good conversations. But as people have gotten more sophisticated and they're used to people calling in it's like, okay, I've got to change my technique just a little bit to make sure that they actually take my call and they don't hang up in the first five to seven seconds.

Yeah. It makes me think of a guy that I had, Greg Sisson out of Myrtle Beach. He said for his first three years in real estate, 60 conversations a day. He said in his first three years he got enough experience on the phone that it would take most people. Most people will not get to. So what's 60 times 5 is 300 times 50 is what? 1500, 15,000 times 3? 45,000 conversations in 3 years with decision making adults about real estate. Most agents will never get that in a 30 year career. So he was just willing to consolidate, you know, time on task, massive action. Yeah, which is exactly what you said. Like you have to get to 200 dials is probably. What's the answer rate on some of these? 8 to 10%.

10%? Yeah, yeah.

You have 20 minimum, 20 conversations a day for your first 30 days in real estate, which is probably way more than the average agent gets anyway. But.

We actually, we actually broke it down. When we do our team goals. We broke it down to it's 20 conversations a day. No, I'm sorry, 20 conversations a week. 80 conversations a month leads to one closing.

Say that again.

20 conversations a day. Oh gosh, I got to go back and look at our number. It basically boils down to it's about 80 conversations will, in a month will lead to one closing.

Okay. Yeah.

And so it's 20 a week, five a day. Yep.

Yeah. So whatever the numbers are for you, they may be different for whatever lead source and it varies by lead source. But you have to know like dials, meaningful conversations, appointments set, appointments met, appointments signed under contract and closed by agent by lead source. And if you're not tracking those things, you're. You're probably going to lose the game of scaling, scaling your, your, your business.

And I'm good. I'm going to be honest with you. I am not great about the tracking of the appointments set, appointments met turning into there. I look at it more from a high level of how much am I spending? How many closings do we have from that lead source? And are we, are we making money from it and you know, can we do better? Probably. But my whole goal for our agents is for them to. And this kind of goes into the whole lead management. How do I make sure that we don't have brand new agents or agents who aren't skilled Burning leads. So we, we implemented what we call a pond system where if you all new leads come into a pond, we have an agent that's on duty. And then in order to get to duty, you have to have gone through all of our training to be able to get a duty shift. You're on that duty shift from 8am to 2pm Any new lead that comes into the database, you cannot claim it. It's not yours. It's in the new lead or what we call our money time bucket. And the only way that you can work with that person is you have to have a meaningful conversation with them. And then once you've had a meaningful conversation, now you're responsible for telling us are they an A, B or a C. And now you have to manage that lead as under the A, B and C plan, which means if I go back and I see that you have a C lead which should be called at a minimum once a month because they're a long term nurture and I see that you haven't made a phone call in three months, that lead gets reassigned back into our reassigned pond. And now anybody else can have free game at it. And so it's this internal accountability of, you know, my leads are going to get moved and the hardest thing for me to do is to have meaningful conversations. So once I have them, I don't want to lose them.

What's the one metric that you're, you're driving with your agents? Is it dials? Meaningful conversations, appointments set.

What's the highlight of it really is the meaningful conversations. Because if you can. Because if I put someone and they're having 60 conversations a day and they're like, oh man, the metric is 200 calls. And they burn themselves out because they can get to, you know, those conversations in fewer dials, I'm going to burn out a good person saying the dials are more important than the conversations. What we're letting our new people know is that, hey, look, it's the meaningful conversations as much as it is anything though. The longer you stay with us and the longer you plug into the system, the fewer those dials need to be to have those meaningful conversations. And it's not always meaningful conversations with people brand new leads, right? Sometimes it's, it's, hey, today I'm going to go and nurture all my people that need to be nurtured and I have meaningful conversations that I'm moving the ball forward with those people that I've already had conversations with, but they're not ready to transact yet. And that keeps me from always just focusing on the ready now business because that from an agent's perspective, if, if all you have in your bucket are three people that are ready to buy today, but you have nothing in the future, once you get those three under contract, you're like, okay, well where, where am I at now? But our agents are, it's have those meaningful conversations, build up your pipeline. And most of our agents that plug into our system will build up about 100 quality leads. People who've said, yes, I am John Doe that filled out this registration and my intent is to buy a home in the next year to two years. Once they build up to about a hundred, in all honesty, they have a hard time keeping up with that. So they don't need to go focus on the brand new lead that just came in because what's the most valuable lead in our database? And I'll ask the people, I'll ask the brand new leads. Yeah, I need to have new leads. No, it's that lead that's been in the database for six months, eight months, nine months, that's just nurturing itself. They're the ones that are going to be most likely and ready to transact. That's probably where your next closing is coming from.

Yeah, we had an agent, we had an agent on our team and she came out of nowhere. She had corporate experience in sales, but she was new to real estate and all she would do and she would get two to three closings a month at whatever price point she decided. Going into our pond and between the hours of like 10 and 1, 10pm and 1am yeah, just get into the pond and just message either text or email people that were active on the site exclusively in the trash and archive bucket. Yeah, so these weren't even in like, like good leads, these were the bad leads. Yeah, but she would, she would bring stuff out of, you know, resurrect leads out of nowhere. We only have a few minutes. I want to get your take on, you know, what lessons probably painful have you learned about the agent personality type that fits into a system like this.

So you know, we do a disc assessment on pretty much everybody that comes through. Now I'm sure that there are going to be Ds that are very good with this because they are very much, you know, not afraid to ask for the business. I have a hard time managing these because that's not my personality. But the folks that I have on my team that are doing the best, they're a high I, they've Got a little bit of C and they've got a. A good amount of S in their. In their profile. My profile high I high S. I've got enough seed to keep me where I'm not like just pulling my teeth out managing the database, but at the same time got to realize is that no agent that's going to do well with this is going to manage the database 100% the way that you want it and so be okay to be flexible that. Is it more important that they capitalize the name of every person that comes in that has a first name, last name, that's in lowercase. Is that more important or is it more important that they've had a really good conversation with them? So understand where to coach and how to coach and not burn people out on the things that don't lead to more conversions.

That is awesome. I want you to comment on what I love about your story and your journey and the way you presented is that it's clear to me that you figured out how to get good at one thing. And not all your business is from this lead source, but you mentioned about 30%, so you've got database and referrals and all that going, I'm sure. But you figured personally how to get good at a lead source, then you built the system to make you the best at it, and then you brought in others to be able to scale it up. And most people will never scale because they never build the system to replace themselves in the activity.

Right.

So real quickly, maybe like the question, the way I just asked it, what have you learned about onboarding agents that we can all benefit from? A couple sort of words of wisdom around onboarding.

So if you want to grow your team and grow fast, and I don't want to say big, but just grow fast. It cannot be me sitting with the agent for five hours, four hours, three hours, even an hour at a time trying to train them on what I do. Because I'm going to be distracted, they're going to be distracted. And so what we did was we put two, two training systems in place. They're both video based. Um, and the. The most painful part was getting it put in place to start with. But what it's allowed me to do is to leverage and grow the team as big as I want and not worry about, oh, my goodness, I just put 10 hours of time, 12 hours of time in this agent and they're struggling and now they're looking at me because I'm not training them right. And I'm always Half distracted when I'm sitting down with them. And why can't they learn everything in that first time that I just dump everything on them? Because none of us can, right? So our onboarding and training onto our team is now based in two. Two buckets. One is a basic agent training system that goes into the tools and systems that we use, how to use them. We go into, you know, how to process a lead, how to go through the whole process of, you know, what are you looking for, what's our cadence, what's our rhythm? We test them a little bit on that. So it's about a week long where they can probably get through in about two or three days if they really want to fast forward and get up to speed. Once they come out of that, then we put them into our 90 day training program. And that 90 day training program is going to tell them what to do each an hour of every day for, for eight hours a day, 90 days in a row. So there's never an excuse of why I didn't know what to do today. I didn't know who to call today. If they have some experience and they've worked databases like ours, as soon as they're up and running with the systems that we're using, they're. They're going to plug right in and they're not going to need to go through as much that 90 day program as the person who's never done online lead generation and stuff like that. So. And the moment that you have that in place, it's, it's a little bit painful to first do it. It took us about 30 days to get it really set up. But what it's done is it's given me a life back where now I can look at it and go, wow, if I want to bring on five agents next month, I can certainly do that.

Yeah. And it's really, when you think about the E Myth, the entrepreneurial myth, right, we're real estate agents who are owners, but it's, it's a myth, right. We can't even step away from our business for a day, you know, without it falling apart. And the E Myth question is, you know, how would I have to think about my business differently if I were to replicate it 10,000 times? So think about your little real estate business, if you're listening, and what would it look like to replicate it 10,000 times? It would probably be impossible. But Chris just mentioned, like, he's got a, A, an agent onboarding system that would allow him to bring on five agents at One time where it's completely leveraged. So as you think through areas of your business, whether it's lead management or lead conversion or scripts or training or whatever it is, it has to be in a way where it's not you as the main cog in the business. So let me ask you this last question. So whenever I get a chance to interview somebody who is playing the game of a business and life at a very high level, and they pivoted their business into exp, you're celebrating just over three years with EXP and I, I don't know why you never reached out to me, but you never did. So I said no in my mind a thousand times in the four years that, you know, came before me actually joining. So why are you an exp? Tell us something about the platform. A myth, maybe, that people think about the platform that it isn't, like, shed some light on why a top player like you would come into the EXP platform.

For us, it was looking at two real main keys. One being having the ownership in the company. Even though we bought a franchise, we didn't own anything. We owned a two and a half mile radius around our franchise that, you know, someone who lived 10 miles away was probably not going to join our office. Why? Because there's closer offices. So we love the idea that we got ownership in something that was real. Right. And we got ownership for doing all this stuff that we had been doing the previous 13 years in real estate. So for me, what that's looked like is almost 15,000 shares of stock for selling houses and recruiting people to come join my team, which I had already been doing for the last seven or eight years. The biggest difference is that, and we saw this with the value proposition of why would an agent, if they left my team, would they stay with the brokerage? And when we were with Century 21, we could not keep an agent at Century 21 in our brokerage that was not on our team. Why? Because there were better models out there. And so we were like, wow, if we can have a better model that we can recruit to, we've got a great value proposition we can retain. We're giving people ownership, we're giving them the opportunity for multiple streams of income. The likelihood of them leaving EXP and building a team beside us, it's lessened a lot. And so our recruiting pitch for us is that now we look and say, okay, before they come to our team. Do you believe in the EXP business model? If they don't, then we're like, all Right. I don't know if you're necessarily going to be the best fit for our team because we want to invest in you, to build you up, to not be on our team if you don't want to be. If you want to grow and build your own team of 10, 15, 20 agents, we want to be able to be, to be able to do that and feel comfortable that you're not going to just walk out the door. And all that training and time and effort is just now gone. Right. So we love the idea of the stock ownership and then we love the idea that for telling people that we enjoy where we're at, we get to build a passive income stream. And when we were trying to build our quote, unquote, century 21 traditional franchise, the most agents we ever had in our traditional franchise was about 15. And now I look and that was in a three year period. So now I'm celebrating my three years with exp and I've got 200 agents that are in my virtual brokerage and I've got 200 agents that are incentivized to go make my brokerage, 400 agents next year. Never had agents come to my brokerage at Century 21 going, hey, you should bring my buddy with you, because they look at it as competition.

And so I like the way you said it, and I've heard it said before, but not quite the way that you said it as a real estate team builder.

So.

And again, this is not the exp show. There's 99.99% of what we talk about has nothing to do with the xp. Yet as a team builder, you're naturally going to have agents, newer agents, needing the systems and the accountability and the cadence and structure come through your team and they're all going to leave. I hate to say it, but if you're in the team building business long enough, they're all gonna leave now, maybe you keep one out of ten, but they're all gonna leave within a, you know, two to five year period, essentially. So this now you can build up these incredible systems and you can just build agents up and say, hey, listen, this is gonna be a two year bootcamp, essentially an MBA in real estate. I'm gonna teach you how to do this on your own. You can stay with me as long as you want or you'll be ready to get after it. And the, well, 80% failure rate in real estate, right, for second year anniversary and two year real estate agents are grossing nine grand. So 80% dropout rate and the average two year agent is grossing $9,000. And so it's just a great combination if you're running a real estate team, you know, to be on this, on this platform. Kris, I appreciate you. You know, I would say if you're listening, if you're listening to the podcast and you want to understand the stages of growth, you know that a real estate team builder goes through, I put together, it's about 15 pages long. It's called the Real Estate Business Growth Navigator. You can go to realestatebusinessgrowth.com thank you, Chris, for your time and your wisdom and just a really good example. And I didn't highlight this when you were saying it, but anyone can scale their business as long as they scale it in line with who they are. And that's something that I didn't really highlight, but you said it really great. Like, you're not a high D. You know, you're. You're an IS with a little bit of C. Right. And you decided that you still wanted to scale and grow and get after it. And I think people think that, like, building a business is reserved for. Because I'm like, super introverted. I happen to be a D, but I'm really introverted. And sometimes we're pegged as, you know, you can't be leaders if you don't have D or whatever. Introvert, extrovert. But just build it in line with who you are. So I really love that about your story. Appreciate you.

Absolutely, my friend.

Awesome. We'll see you guys soon. Be good.