Cody May's Guide to Lead Generation and Conversion in a Time When No One Wants To Pick Up The Phone

Lars, what's up, real estate team builders? Lars Hedinborg here, the founder of Real Estate B School. Today we're going to take a little bit of a different path. I've got Cody May who is the founder and runs a company called Studio ptbo. He'll explain in a second here what that means. And I met Cody in a really high level mastermind and found out after the fact that he has committed his existence professionally to helping real estate agents with the grind that is lead conversion and all the tech and marketing around that entire, like I said, pure grind. So, Cody, why don't you give us a quick intro, kind of let the listeners know a little bit about you, your background and why you chose real estate. I questioned myself why I chose real estate on some days. But yeah, let the audience get to know you a little bit.

Yeah. Thank you first off, Lars, so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Like you said, my name is Cody from Studio ptbo. We are a full service marketing sheet and software company that serves real estate agents, helping them to do three things really well, attract more leads, generate more appointments and give them the tools and training that they need in order to convert those appointments to clients. And I started out my journey in telecom. I ran teams and about four or five years ago I kind of transitioned out of telecom managing teams for a company called Best Buy and decided to start my agency. My agency was really founded around helping brands and businesses really create great content. And we've kind of like over the last couple years have really dove more into the real estate space mainly because we had a lot of great clients that were already working with us from a brand and marketing perspective. And I found that all the clients we were working with that I was passionate about working with were real estate agents. And some of our best clients really came from the real estate space. And a couple years ago we kind of decided that we were really going to niche down in that, in that area to really serve them at a high level, create a program that we know gets clients results. And we've had multiple iterations of what we're, what we've done. You know, recently I wrote a book called what if youf could the Mindset and Business Blueprint for your Life of Purpose. We've had the opportunity to kind of be featured on podcast and been featured on things like Ticker News Australia talking about our expertise in the real estate space. We've featured on CH Ontario. And I said all that to kind of let you know that, you know, we were just really Passionate about what we do and really passionate about working with real estate agents, helping them really master this online space from not only a brand aspect, which, you know, is really super powerful, but how do we actually create so many touch points. They say it takes 22 touch points for somebody to make a buying decision. And that's really what we're trying to do. And we're trying to increase the lead conversion from online to get them into an appointment. So that's a little high level overview on kind of who I am and what I did and where I kind of came from, you know.

And it's funny, when I first got involved in like lead gen, so having someone, you know, essentially back in the day, a forced registration, right, they didn't really want to talk to us, but we put something in front of the thing they wanted to get access to. Um, and this was back in 2008 when I got started in the space. And in those early days, like people actually wanted, for the most part, like we're okay talking to a real estate agent. They would give you accurate information. Every once in a while you'd be like fu.com, you know, all those types of registrations. But it seems to me, and this is why I really wanted to get you on the podcast, since 2008, like just every year lead quality has been going to complete crap to the point where admittedly three or so years ago, and we sell hundreds of homes per year, we got out of the lead gen, you know, that sort of process. So I'm interested to hear like, let's get into the conversation about like what's working? How have you seen things evolve? What's not working? I've got coaching clients who, you know, do a 2-3x return on paid, paid lead, you know, home search leads. And then I've got guys doing 10 to 13% on, you know, pay per click and realtor.com leads. So get into lead gen types. What have you seen and what's working?

Well, I think that the biggest large scale conversation is everything works. It just takes time and volume. And that's something that I really believe and that's something I see with a lot of their clients that really excel in real estate online leads. Like it takes like just like if you were to do open houses or you were to do work, your superior influence or you were to door knock or you're a cold call. There are people that are really good at cold calling and there's people that aren't really good at cold calling. So I think that there's an element of like professionalism, like actually being good at doing like actually converting online leads to clients and having conversations and having those meaningful conversations, I think is one element to, to the fact that like you mentioned even yourself, there are people that you know that close at 10 to 20%, there's people that close at 1%. So I think that the conversation becomes, is like, how good are you at selling yourself? So I think that there's so many different online legion sources and it's like, like we, we essentially run ads on every single platform depending on where the client decides to advertise, whether it be Facebook, Instagram, TikTok in larger metropolis is something that we're, we're beta testing for a lot of our clients right now. Google, YouTube, it's about building a list. I think that fundamentally I think that we can all get on onto an agreement that we need to build a list. Whether that list be sphere of influence, whether that list be past clients, whether you purchase that list, I think that there's power in actually owning the data. So I think where I think like when we're talking about lead generation, I think it's important that we start with the fundamentals and the fundamental conversation of like there's currency in owning name, email address and phone number. Because if you're, if your account ever gets shut down, like if you're solely reliant on like your Facebook personal profile or your Instagram profile, if that ever goes down, like how do you continue a conversation or how do you continue building a relationship with people? I think how you get there is different for everyone. Some people get really great results on TikTok, some people get really great results on YouTube. But I think that there's the conversation of like creative, like, you know, and you're, you understand if you're a marketing guy, there's the creative, there's the copy, and then there's the targeting and putting all those things together well and actually then being able to have a conversation, like a really good, meaningful conversation is part of the challenge that I think a lot of people have with online leads because for the most part, like we do a lot of the front end leg work. Like, you know, it can take 22 times before you even reach somebody. So we do a lot of that work on the front end so that by the time the lead actually gets to the client, they're ready to have that conversation. So I think that what I've seen with online lead generation is like, it works. It's just like you, you really do need an inside sales agent or you need somebody on the front end that is dialing people in order to get them on the phone with you. I think it's the, the front end lead gen. It works. It's just like you probably have done this before as well yourself, like where you opt into something and then you get busy and then you forget about the thing that you opted into. Maybe it's really great, maybe they give you a free course, but you haven't gone through the course because we get busy, you know, and over time we can, we don't take action on the thing that we were originally going to take action on. So I think that the fundamentally of the conversation is everything works. It's just a matter of finding what that, the thing that actually works for you, if that makes sense.

Yeah, so let's, let's break it down a little bit.

So.

You know, maybe isn't it's not the leads that are getting worse, it's just the follow up systems required to convert the leads have, have had to change as the world has gotten noisier. So what does it look like? Let's break down. Is it text, email, is it video sequences, is it just phone calls or combination of all of it? Let's take break down like a common lead source that's working well across all of your clients and then break down what a follow up sequence will look like. And how many touches are you seeing before a lead agrees to a virtual consultation or what's your process look like?

Yeah, great question. So like, you know, generally what will happen is we'll run ads on every single platform like Facebook, Instagram, Google, YouTube. And then fundamentally what we'll do after that is we will, we will get them to email and text sequences. So like there'll be email text sequences, there'll be chat bots, there'll be dialing that'll happen. It's like fundamentally everything works. It's just a matter of like, you know, doing it all like. And I think ultimately the biggest thing is the actual calling. I think that calling fundamentally is going to be the thing that's going to get you the best results and actually, you know, actually result in the best possible solution. Fundamentally like it's. So the lead comes in from the platform. Facebook, Instagram, Google, YouTube, they come in from the platform, they go through email, text responses in order to elicit a response. And generally we're driving them to a booking calendar very similar to kind of like a standard funnel, but they'll also do Chatbot. So the, you know, if it's for example, a inside sales agent can't get to them right away, the chat bot access that inside sales agent. Because if somebody opts in at like 2 in the morning, 3 in the morning, the idea that you need to follow up with a lead within five minutes in order to increase your conversion rate by a hundred times still exists. So it's that element of like, okay, if we can't get to them through a phone call within five minutes, how do we get to them via automated messages. So I think that's one element. I think the other element that a lot of people miss as well is the retargeting. Like it's like you can't expect in your top of funnel like your very first ad that everyone's going to convert. There's a really interesting stat that my business coach talks about all the time. Talking more, you know, talking where he essentially says like 15% of the market is generally ready to go within that 90 day window. But where people miss out is the 35% of the market that needs to be nurtured over a six to 18 month window. So it's like that initial email, that initial text message on a really high ticket purchase isn't going to be necessarily the thing that is going to convert them right away. It's like I think it was Nara who said that 50% of people found their realtor online, don't quote me on that. But like the stat was really high and it's like we need to hit them with content, with value added content as much as we possibly can. So to answer your question, it's email, it's text message, it's phone calls, it's chatbots. If we can supply all these things under one roof and do them all really well, we can increase the conversion. But to answer your question, it's really calling. The calling is the big thing that actually if we can live transfer the lead directly to the agent and they can start that meaningful conversation then, and there's, then they can actually then begin the education process because a lot of people just aren't educated on the home buying process. So we can just get the lead in front of the person that at the end of the day is what we see to be the best result up front. But on the back end where we create the best result is that retargeting, getting that value added content, those video testimonials in front of people and put them back into the email tech strip campaign. So it's kind of like, like if you were to kind of see a diagram, the diagram would be like, oh, it's like you got to throw everything at them. And that's really the case with online Legion. You need to throw everything at them.

So, so when you look at, you know, outside of, you know, just hiring you guys, what do you see the most successful lead converters doing versus folks that are maybe, you know, they've got leads coming in but they're not converting. What would you say, like three things you could coach our listeners to. What would they be?

Hire an appointment setter. So like hire, hire somebody. Like, hire somebody that just solely dials your leads. Like, you know, like I have a really good friend, Shron Travatsa, who is in, you know, he's really well known in the real estate industry. He, you know, preaches to all of his people like with circle prospecting, like, and, and with all of his like people that he coaches, you know, hire an appointment center. That would be the big thing I would say is like, you need somebody that is like if you want to convert leads, you need somebody that is dedicated towards dialing your leads. That'd be the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is like, if you're getting a lot of bad contact information or you're getting a lot of, you know, you're getting like, if you're, if you're not converting, then look at changing out the ads. That would be the second thing I would say. You know, maybe it's adding a question to the form. Maybe it's, you know, because like the more questions you add to the form, the more that you spend for the lead, but the higher quality the lead may be. So generally what'll happen is like, you know, a lot of people will just run standard lead forms where it's like if I can get a baseline where I'm seeing like a $5 cost per lead, what happens if I just add a couple of question form to get a higher intent lead? Like actually like I think that where people struggle with online lead gen is they don't optimize anything. They just let it run and they like, you know, it's like, sure, you're going to get a ton of leads, but maybe like, but you can't always follow up with all these leads. So let's add extra, extra questions to the form that actually creates the higher quality lead or change or optimize more change to a lead conversion. If you run a Facebook ads, for example, change like, change from like people will run like More quantity where you can run higher intent on Facebook. So maybe it's changing it from more, more volume to higher intent. Maybe it's just, you're just doing it yourself. So it's changing the lead form. And the third thing is be omnipresent and don't just run ads on one platform. Like if Facebook's not working for you, go to Google, go to YouTube, learn how to run TikTok ads. Like, you know, if you're in a metropolis right now, you should definitely be running TikTok ads because like everyone and their mother is on TikTok. I know tons of realtors that are getting like, they're getting business off of TikTok. So, you know, I'd be looking at where is the intention and where can I allocate dollars towards, you know, maybe a different platform. Like for example, like we still run ads for a lot of our clients on Facebook, but we were getting higher quality leads in the area on TikTok. So we shut off Facebook ads and we're only running Google and YouTube and TikTok. So maybe that's the solution for you. And whatever the solution may be, I would say just like audit the thing you're doing, but it's going to take time and volume. The person that we were working with on Facebook who decided to shut off Facebook, they were running Facebook, Instagram, Google, YouTube, TikTok. They were running all of them. And then we took a look at over time and volume. We took a look at what was converting, what wasn't converting, and we found that TikTok was converting at a higher rate than Facebook was. Does that necessarily mean that Facebook doesn't work? No, it just means maybe the buying cycle for Facebook is a little bit longer because it's more interrupted. It's not getting us the type of leads that we want. And maybe it's a little bit more saturated, so maybe we need to just go to a different channel. But those are the three things I would say.

And so let's break down one of the platforms. And I joke with my kids all the time. So I'm 48 years old, I've got an 11 year old and a 14 year old and I barely dip my toe into TikTok. And this is for the coaching business. And I'm just like, I don't know, I don't get it. Like I don't. I mean, I consume TikTok because sometimes I let my kids have screen time and I've got to go in there and you can just be in there for like 45 minutes. You're like, man, that was an awful waste of my time. But I may just be a little bit more of a crotchety sort of old gen type thinker, but let's break down TikTok as a platform. So if you're like, I just assume that you have to be like in the platform and have like a whole bunch of stuff created already or do you start from scratch? Or let's break it down a little bit, given your expertise. What it looks like.

I have a client that hardly posts any content on TikTok and we're running TikTok ads. We kind of gave them a script on what, like what would actually work and what we thought wouldn't work. So we tested a bunch of different types of creative. We found the winning creative and now we're getting eight to $9 leads. Like, you don't need to have an active TikTok account in order to run TikTok ads, because the TikTok actual ad account, like if you want to actually run ads and run a Legion based ads, like you're not even running it from the page, like it's very different than Facebook. You're actually running from the page. You're just running an ad. So if the ad is really good and it performs and it actually gets people to click through and give you their name, their mail address and phone number, it's another way to really build your database. And that's really what, like what we preach is like it's just another source to get the data off of, off of TikTok. Because like, if I could pay $8 and own that lead until they actually decide they want to opt out or if I can keep providing them value, I have, you know, I could spend $8 and potentially close, you know, a $500,000 house. Like it's like that, that, that you know, there's massive amount of value in that. But yeah, like you, to answer your question, you don't have to have an active TikTok account in order to run TikTok ads. Will it help? Could you go viral on TikTok? Like, would I recommend it 100%. I would recommend every real estate agent to run like to actually invest back even into like creating content on TikTok. Because like I said, I know people that have done multiple deals off of TikTok organic content. So I'm very bullish on TikTok. I think that we won't even be having this conversation in two years. I think in two years, everyone just like what happened with Facebook? I don't think there's anyone that negates the fact that Facebook works now. It's like, oh, you know, Facebook has aged up and like TikTok is slowly aging up and TikTok was one of those platforms very early on where like you said, like, you know, it's like you went on the platform because your kids were on the platform like, you know, like and I think that was the thing that we're going to continue to see over the next couple of years. Like I think that if we were to look at five platforms for advertising right now, like that were high in value, it'd be TikTok, it'd be Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and Google. I would say those are the five that we're really focused on for our clients and those are the five that you know, if you're going to run ads, I would test on all five of those platforms and see what gets you the largest return on your investment.

It's interesting. The order you said those, is that the order that you think there's the most opportunity given the lifecycle of the platform?

Yeah, I think so. I think that like Facebook naturally is always going to be around like with this new meta like change. I think that we're going to see a lot of. I think that, I think that Facebook is so far ahead of like, you know, now that they're kind of in the crypto nft space. I think that Facebook is here to stay. I think Facebook and Instagram will be monumental platforms. I think TikTok is, is in their third and the reason I say that is because they're all search based like they're all interrupted based marketing where Google and YouTube is still more search based content. So it's like still you're still like only grabbing a certain element of the, of the marketplace where it's like with Facebook and Instagram I could still, I can still get to the end consumer before they're even necessarily thinking about buying or selling real estate. That's the same with thing with TikTok. It could still get to the consumer before they even have that conversation in their head. That it's like oh look, I want to have, I want to buy seller real estate or I want to get this thing I get to them prior to even having that conversation with themselves. So that's where I think that like if you look at a lot of teams, they have multiple lead sources where it's like the, the large conversation then becomes like and what I believe and like what we Preach is like, like Facebook ads and all this advertising is just one lead source. You still need to work your sphere of influence. You still need to work your past client list. It's just like when you're ready to kind of add ads into the mix, it's that additional lead source that I think that every, every agent should have.

Yeah, that's awesome, man. That opens up like a whole new world that we can probably just continue to go with. And I'm going to go a little bit into all of that, that you just school us a little bit since we have the opportunity to talk to. Because I don't talk to guys that are like super leading edge in anything because I'm so like old school and like only certain things work in business. So let's kind of lean into this a little bit like, and continue to get your thoughts on for real estate specifically, and this is for team builders. You know, what do you see? Like what are three tactics right now that you'd like? Definitely think everyone who's running a big business, so not so much maybe an agent selling, you know, only 2% of agents sell 25 homes or more. So maybe someone 50, 100 plus homes that they're scaling their business. What are like things they need to be thinking about when it comes to the platforms and lead management and all of this stuff. And then even we can get into the conversation about dialers as well.

Yeah, I think that, like, I think that when we talked about the sphere of influence past client list, I generally feel like if you're doing that many transactions, you probably have the sphere of influence and the, and the past client list on lockdown. Like you generally like, I look at it like a triangle. Like, you know, sphere of influence, past client list, you most likely have those two things locked down. The thing you're probably struggling with in order to scale is that, is that additional lead source. Which I think that as we talk, as I talk to a lot of teams, that's mainly the thing that they're struggling with. So the biggest thing I would say is like find your lead source, build your backend sales process. So that would be like one thing where it's like, okay, choose a lead source, build your back end sales process so that you're, you, you're tracking your numbers. The biggest, I think the biggest issue I see with like, like teams is they don't know their numbers. Like, you know, or maybe they have a very high level overview understanding of their numbers. Like, you know, you need to be able to track. Okay, I Generated this many leads. I booked this many appointments, you know, out of the appointments. This is how many buyer presentations I did this, how many seller. Like, it's like, I would say, like, really dig deep into just that source and run multiple sources. Like run Facebook, Instagram, run Google, YouTube, run TikTok and then see, okay, out of those sources, if I can make check all those sources, where are my sales coming from? Like, so that's where I think it's important to have, like, a really robust CRM or like a really robust backend system so that you know where all. You actually know where all of your lead sources are coming from. So I think that tracking is a, is an important element to having this conversation around. Like, is this working? Is this not working? Am I asking for referrals? Would be the other thing as well. Like, it's like the biggest thing that I see a lot of agents or like, a lot of teams doing is like, they have everyone on their team. It's like when they get a lead and they have a conversation and they're like, hey, we're not ready to go in until like, six months from now. They say, cool, do you know anyone else that's looking to buy, sell, or invest in real estate? And then they get an introduction from that lead that's not ready to go right now. They get an introduction to somebody else who's ready to go. So I think that, like, having that conversation is going to be super important as well. And like, training your team on having those conversations and even training your team on, like, the second thing I would say, the training your team on how to get people over the hump of actually making a move. Because I think a lot of people, they hear the conversation with online leads of like, oh, you know, I'm not ready. Like, it's. I'm. I'll be ready to go in six months. Well, it's like, in all actuality, if you, like, do you want to move into that home in six months or are you looking to start looking in six months? Because if you want to move in six months, we need to start looking now. And we need to have that educational conversation where it's like, okay, let's sit down. Let's have a conversation. You know, it's like, it's like having an auditing. Your team's like, sales presentations, I think is the other thing. It's like, I audit everyone on my team's presentations. You know, we record our calls, you know, we review our presentations, we review our initial meetings. I review our Call centers. So I think like, you know, with a team, they really need to review. If it's zoom presentations they're doing, I think the team leader should be reviewing the presentations to help their team convert at a higher level, especially with these online leads, rather than just kind of leaving them out to figure it out on their own. Maybe they have scripts, but maybe they're not. Auditing the scripts is another thing. The third thing I would say is making sure that the biggest thing I see with teams is like their tracking pixels are kind of all over the place. Like even big teams, you're missing out on so much opportunity by not running retargeting ads. Like a lot of times when we work with like large teams, we're running a lot of retargeting ads, like video testimonials. We're running value based added content. We're kind of like acting more as an agency. And like a lot of teams I see online, they're, they're tracking pixels are dialed in. Like they have the Facebook pixel installed. They have their Google tag manager installed properly. They're running TikTok. They have TikTok pixels installed. So that would be the third thing from like an online Legion source, I would say.

Awesome. And I wanted to make sure you guys didn't miss it just by adding at the end of every conversation, hey, Cody, before I let you go, like, who do you know that's looking that wants to buy, sell or invest in real estate, you know, now or today, or that I can call today that, that if you multiply that and you're running a team and you're running a business, and, and even your administrators having conversations with clients as they're under contract and them being responsible for asking that question, that'll add an additional deal or two per month per agent just by getting in the habit. And even like you're, you're checking out your, you know, you're getting your dry cleaning, which you shouldn't be doing if you're highly leveraged, but let's say you are, you got to ask the person that's checking you out at the dry cleaner. Hey, before I, before I run out of here, you know, do you know anyone looking to bear or who do you know rather? So they have to give you a specific name that's really, really good. All right, so we've got a few more minutes here. Talk about, you know, you talked about all the text, email, follow up sequences retargeting yet. And we found this as well. You know, phone calls, there's Nothing, you know, that that can change, you know, as much as. So I pivoted into exp and I've had seven, eight years of marketing behind real estate B school. And as much as I would love for everyone to just reach out to me and join exp, it just doesn't work that way. And so this morning I called five folks and I had two conversations and set two appointments, you know, but I will spend 50 hours a week trying to market my way to get those conversations. But I know they've had the impressions and all of that stuff. But talk about organizing phone numbers, lead follow up dialers and all of that. What have you seen there?

Yeah, so we use like our own software and really at the end of the day, like, it just comes like, like when we're having CRM conversations. Like, you need to work your CRM. Like the, the best CRM is the CRM you use. And you've probably heard this before, whether it be Isaac, whether it be follow up boss, whether it be KVCore, like, you just got to use it and you got to use it daily. Like, you need to schedule. Like I always say to our clients, you need to time, block time in your calendar, get a power dialer and hire somebody on your team or get somebody on your team to like, like there'll be an integration you'll need to use with a power dialer. So generally a lot of people would use, like, maybe they'll use Zapier to connect the two. But it's like if a lead comes through, you need to get that lead directly in your power dialer so that somebody can just actually, like once somebody on your team can click a button and start taking calls in the morning, if you can have somebody even calling three hours a day for you, just like dialing and using a script like your, your business will change overnight. Like, it's like, that's really what we do. Like, we have, we use a program called Vici Dial that like our, like we have a bunch of agents that dial for our clients.

Yeah, it's just a numbers game. And I, I, in, in my head, I envision the dog barking behind you. Like 180 pound. Like Rottweiler.

No, no. Super small dog in the background. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, hilarious.

Of course, timing is, is perfect. Um, so that's really, really awesome. Um, all right, what's one thing. Let's, let's end it with a, with a final thought, kind of given your diverse background, you know, and I came into real estate from a corporate background. Acquisitions and strategy and like, just totally out of left field in terms of getting into real estate. Kind of same same with you and leading teams and seeing the mediocrity in our industry, you know, and just. Just not in a negative way. But you. You look at. I looked at our industry from real estate B school perspective, like, I can really help this industry with the business training that it does not have. And you had the same mindset. I can really help this industry from, like, we just don't have time as an industry to. And our personalities aren't geared toward being organized or, you know, launching five different. Different platforms. And sometimes we're, you know, we have a big personality, but we're not good at technology, you know, and all of that stuff. So what's. What's a single overarching sort of word of advice as you've. As we kind of end our time here?

Believe in your ability to figure things out. You know, that's where I think confidence is created. Where, you know, we say, oh, I'm not good at this thing, or I'm not. Like, I'm not. I'm not a tech person. It's like, well, sometimes, like, if we want to do big things in life, we need to believe in our ability to figure things out. And if we really want to, like, we want to run a larger business, like, we might need to learn that those tech things in order to actually outsource those tech things. So that would be the thing I say to all of our clients, all of my staff, everyone on my team is like, you know, confidence is created in your ability to figure things out. So it's like, it's the. Brendan Burchard calls it the confidence confidence loop. It's like the more confidence you have in yourself, the more you're likely you're to do the thing. And then you, like, do the thing. You're like, oh, this isn't as hard as I thought it would be. And then you create confidence, and it's that confidence competence loop. It was the biggest thing I would say is believe in your ability, figure things out, and don't be afraid to ask for help. I think the biggest thing that I struggle with early on in my entrepreneurial career is like, I'm. Like I said, I had this really weird, egotistical mindset that was like, I should know this, where it's like, well, why should I know this? Why don't I just reach out to somebody and ask them for help that are already doing the things that I want to do and that's why I got surrounded with Tacky's community and like, that's why I still believe so much in investing back into personal development and business development. Because I don't have all the answers. So the best way for me to get the answers is to be surrounded by people that already have the answer. So that's what I would say is like piece of advice.

Awesome. That's really, really good. So what's the best way to get in touch with you, Cody?

You can go to studioptvo.com that's our website. You can reach me@codyudioptbo.com if you want to chat a little bit more about advertising or appointment setting, that probably the easiest way. Or just find me on Facebook. I'm pretty active there as well.

Awesome. If you're at the point in your business growth journey where you're struggling, you just want some guidance in terms of the stages of growth and the insanity that comes with every stage as you scale your business. I would say go to realestatebusinessgrowth.com I'll give you a copy of a report Six Stages of Business growth and pitfalls to avoid the questions to ask yourself the tools and systems to implement along your journey. So check out Cody@studioptbo.com or realestatebusinessgrowth.com Much love, brother. Appreciate your time.

Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

All right, see ya.