From Youth Pastor to Selling 600+ Homes Per Year: How Chris Craddock Leveraged His Zones of Genius

Super excited for today's episode of Real Estate Team Builders. I've got Chris Craddock, who is out of D.C. virginia, Maryland market, and Chris's team on and off market properties this year will do 600 sides. And he came into real estate in December 2014. So this is less than seven years. He's gone from sort of not really a retail agent to a 600 plus agent unit Real estate team. Chris, welcome to the podcast. Why don't you spend a few minutes just talking about your journey from, from the ministry side of things to, like, blazing a trail in our industry, the investing. Like, I can't even keep up with everything you're doing, but introduce yourself to the listeners.

Yeah. So, you know, I graduated from college in 2000 and got married right out of school. Actually, right before I graduated, got married and went on staff with an organization called Young Life because it changed my life. I was a mess in high school, Changed my life, loved it. 2003, my wife got pregnant, and on Young Life staff, I was making about $20,000 a year. And you just can't live in the D.C. area on $20,000 a year. And so I knew that real estate was where people in my family had made money. And so I just went to the local library because before Google was the fount of all information and knowledge and everything else, and checked out every book on real estate investing I could find, read them all. And then, I mean, I look back at how little I knew, but I just, I knew these people had to sell. I found distressed properties and just went and knocked on doors. And I always joke, you know, imperfect action, Trump's perfect inaction. And finally some people started saying yes. And like that, I was just knocking on the door saying yes. And literally in four months, I made 12 times what I made in a year, which was awesome. And through a number of circumstances, I just basically cashed out, continued doing ministry, and as I had more and more kids, the money just started running out. And during that time, I was still in ministry, led large teams in ministry and actually gone back to school. I got a doctorate in leadership, and so just always, always led large teams. And then, you know, with six kids, you know, the money was just almost gone. And so I was doing all these side hustles, like helping my buddy who has a carpet business, like, tear out carpets on basements that were flooded. And actually, you'll never believe this. If you look at my hands, they don't look awesome. I made money, 300 bucks as a hand model once. Like, like For a direct mail thing. It was, it was crazy, like all these random things, but I was working so hard just to make ends meet and I'm like, why don't I do real estate again? So I got back in 2011, started flipping houses again. At that point, the market had shifted. And so the way that I was finding houses before were all short sales. And so I was able to buy these short sales at a massive discount. The bank was paying realtors commissions, so I just got my license just so that I could get commissions to flip those short sales. And then the bank changed their algorithms so there was no longer a big margin in flipping short sales. And. And so we just started putting some on the market. And during that time, somebody had given me Gary Keller's book, the Millionaire Real Estate Agent. And I read it as somebody with a doctorate in leadership and always led large teams. I was like, dude, this makes sense. It makes sense. And so December 2014, we launched in earnest our real estate team and then just kind of started running off to the races. And then we had some, you know, there's a lot more to it than that, you know, but this is kind of the high level version of how we got to where we are today.

Awesome. So, and when you got back into, just for clarity, when you got back, when you made the shift from investing into the retail side, did you go in and build a team right away? Kind of give a little bit of the team building journey, you know, because it's like hired an administrator, a buyer agent, like what did it look like those first years of building the team?

So I was doing a bunch of flip stuff in 2011 till 2014. So I had a admin on that was working with our flip team and then, which was so important to have. And then when we decided to do it, I immediately brought on somebody who was our lead buyer's agent. He's now the operations director for our company. He came in as, as our lead buyer's agent right away. And then I also brought on somebody else who was going to. After I knew that I could find all these distressed properties in our area. So I got somebody else to come on as our, our listing agent going after those distressed properties. And then I was mainly working my sphere of influence because I came from ministry, so I had a pretty large sphere of influence.

That's awesome. All right, so let's, you know, we chatted a little bit before we hit the record on this and we talked about, you know, you talk about genius zones and when you look back on really? Like how Chris showed up in ministry, how Chris showed up on the, you know, investing side, and how you show up in business today, and you have a lot going on, and I want to uncover a little bit of it. But let's go through your zones of genius and just kind of unpack them a little bit, and then I'll kind of ask some questions to go a little bit. A little bit deeper on them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. You know, I've got 10 businesses that I run now, almost all synergistic with real estate. We can talk about that later. But. But with that said, you know, my. You know, I've got this sign in my office that says, are you in your genius zone? A buddy of mine would use that phrase all the time. Actually, a guy that's in a mastermind that both Lars and I are in, a guy named Gary Boomershine, would always say, are you in your genius zone? And it just stuck with me. So I got a big sign made and put it in my office, because I only want to be doing stuff that's in my genius zone, right? And so the four things that I've narrowed it down to, and I'm sure I'm going to narrow it down even more. One is creative problem solving. It's funny, my brother, my dad used to do puzzles all the time when you were growing up, and I hated puzzles. And then I realized problem solving is literally just like, adult puzzling, right? You're just finding solutions to stuff to make the. Make it work. So I actually like puzzles, but not board puzzles, which is funny. So problem solving, pitching vision, right? Like, when people can have a vision that they lean into, that they run into, that they're running after. Like, what is the reason you do what you do? Like, right now I'm, you know, I'm sitting at our lake house, right? This is my view as I. As I'm sitting here on the podcast here, right? I'm. I'm sitting here and able to work remotely and just hang out, you know, gonna take my kids tubing in just a little bit, so I'm able to. To work hard, play hard. And so what is the vision that people have? And can you pitch that vision that will make people grab the flag and run hard after that vision? Because the only people that get stuff done are the ones that are willing to delay gratification and say, I'm willing to work hard now so that I can get the goals accomplished that I want to get. So can you speak to people's lives that will get them to be motivated. Number three is strategic relationships. And I'll talk a little bit about this. One of the main ways that we really doubled our business was through finding investors who have a ton of listing leads that they don't use because they just leave in their CRM because these are people that want to sell closer to retail value and they just sit there. And these investors need to buy at a discount. Right? And so building these relationships with people to really, really help find a win win with everybody. And then the last one is like Brandon Burchard and high performance habits. One of those high performance habits is create energy. And as you can tell, I'm already a high energy guy, but I also do things to create energy, not just for myself, but also create energy and channel that energy into the team so that when they see, I mean, just picture like all the, all the war movies, right? William Wallace and Braveheart. Right. You know, you as the leader, need to be the guy waving the flag saying, this is what we're doing, this is where we're going. And so I think that part of that pitching vision and having high energy and focusing that energy towards the goal helps everybody else get on board. And if you're the leader, you're the one that points the direction. You're the one showing, hey, this is where we're going and this is why we're going here.

Awesome. So let's unpack these in reverse order. So let's talk about creating energy. Give us some examples of like, like literally, how does that show up, you know, going from you into your team. Give us a few examples that people can implement in their businesses.

Yeah, yeah. So here's one of the things that I do in. I've got a morning routine, right. Which I'll tell you, if you asked me, if you would have asked me 20 years ago whether I'll ever be a morning person. I'm a darn good salesperson, which means I can sell myself on my own bs, right? And so here's some of the BS that I would sell myself on is that I'm more creative at night, that I'm, you know, better in my underwear at 11pm Working on the computer than I am groggy in the mornings. Like, all of, like all of my kids are out, are in bed. So I work better at night, all the other things. But I'll tell you, success leaves clues. You're not going to find somebody that you massively respect. Somebody's going to send me somebody one day. I'm sure Some outlier somewhere. But you never find people that are massively successful, that are night people that wake up around 10am and just roll out of bed and start figuring it out, right? They've got a massively successful morning routine. And so what I do, one of my. So my morning routine is this. I wake up, I write down my list of goals that I find important, right? So I'm creating energy, I'm talking about the why, right? And I'm a Christian guy, so I pray. Pray for the people in my life where I have goals associated with that. So I write my goals, I pray for those people. Like it's. It energizes my why, right? You do the things, you know, what is it? It's a motion creates emotion, right? And so I'm writing this down. So I'm thinking about it and I'm creating the emotion behind it. So, yeah, I pray for the people that I care about. Then the second. Then the next thing I do is, you know, I read my Bible every morning because I'm a Christian guy, right? I want to feed my goals. I want to feed myself spiritually, which is. Is why I read my Bible every morning. Then I have a gym in my basement. So I go down to my basement every morning. I feed myself physically by working out. But Jim Collins, in his book Good to Great talks about the genius of the. And it's different than multitasking. It's literally, how can you do two things together? Like when I play racquetball with my buddies a couple times a week, right? It's exercise and relationship building, right? So what I do is I go downstairs in my gym, I work out and. And I put on a podcast or an audible book or something where I'm feeding my mind. Think about athletes, right? They get themselves ready for the day with whatever they're listening to. They get themselves ready for the game. You always see them with headphones, like, getting into that peak state. And then I go upstairs, I shower, I turn on the Bluetooth speaker while I'm still listening to stuff, like I'm getting myself in that peak state. I usually sit at the table with my kids, do some sort of teaching with them. The kids that are home from school, that aren't in school yet. So I'm feeding my family piece. And then my wife and I usually will talk for five to 10 minutes and kind of have our own like, like family huddle before the day goes because we got six kids and there's so much going on between the businesses and the kids. And everything else. So that's what we do in the morning. And I'll tell you, you know, one of the things that I've learned is like, if you want to win the year, you got to win the quarter. If you want to win the quarter, you got to win the month. And if you want to win the month, you got to win the week. If you got to win the week, you got to win the day. And if you want to win the day, you win the morning, right? And so if you set your morning up where you hit the right goals right there, then you'll, then you'll win. But it all starts. You go to these irreducible minimums. How do you break it down to the things that are most important? And if you do those things, everything else will end up falling into place.

So, so, so that is awesome. Personally, how do you encourage or impart on your team to do the same? Are you kind of reminding them of this routine? Are they doing it themselves? Or are there different things you do as a leader in the businesses?

Yeah, so, so with that, when Covid hit, before COVID we would do a team huddle three mornings a week, half hour training. When Covid hit, we. I was reading something about the Navy seals where they say you never, you never end up rising to the level of your dreams. You always fall to the level of your training, right? And so what we did was we raised our training to five days a week. The other thing was, my wife said to me this, that I thought was really, really important. She said, chris, I know you do a lot of teaching for your team, but she said, I know a lot. We hang out with a lot of high performers, right? And she's like, I don't know anybody. The edu that, that focuses on personal development and education like you do. I mean, I literally spend over a hundred grand a year on education and personal development. I literally am reading all the time. She's like, does your team understand the price you're paying? Are you giving them a fish? Are you teaching them how to fish? And I literally, at that point, I was just giving them fish. So I was training a lot, but I wasn't teaching them what I do, right? Because everybody wants to be the beast, but nobody wants to do what the beast does kind of idea. So the whole idea was like, I'm handicapping my team. I'm not teaching them. This is how you train yourself. This is how you learn. And so I started always talking about the books that I'm reading, always talking about the Podcast I'm listening to, always talking about how much time I spent on development. And literally it was crazy because within months, all of my team started talking about books that they're reading, people, they're listening to all the, you know, all these other things. And they started, you know, basically sharing group think together in ways that wasn't happening when I was just giving them fish, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that's awesome. Really, really good. All right, so let's go to. Which I think if there's one thing on this, these, these four genius zones, your ability to genuinely invest in strategic relationships. But let's unpack that one a little bit. Is it naturally part of you, do you, you know, systematically do it? How do you organize it, sort of talk about that a little bit.

So one of my favorite things was when I was doing mainly investment stuff, me and one of my buddies who we were partnering at the time, we went down to this self directed IRA conference to raise a little bit of money for some deals that we were doing. And at the end of one of the days, he's like, Kris, I've never seen somebody build rapport and become friends with somebody as fast as you do. He's like, teach me what you do. And for me, I was just like, I don't know, I'm just being myself. I'm just being friendly. And he's like, no, I don't buy that. He's like, that's not true. Anything that you do, that you do, well, you can break it down to how, why it works as well as it does. And we kind of argued about it for a little bit. Then I realized I'm like, man, I've spent a lot of time actually learning how to do this. I've taken Dale Carnegie classes on how to win friends and influence people. I spent like whatever, 1800 bucks to take his class. You know, I've read his book like 5,000 times. Like, I've read all these body language books. Like, I've done all these things that I. That just naturally happened. Their muscle memory. And so, so what I will say is this, you can break it down and how do you build relationships? How do you build rapport? You know, first let me just say this. Read dale Carnegie's book 10 times. How to Win Friends and Influence People. I promise you there's not going to be a better book out there. And his whole thing is remember people's names, right? He says the sweetest sound in any language is somebody's name. Why don't we remember people's names, I'll tell you. And some people push back. It's because you don't care enough. You're thinking about the next thing you want to say, and instead of thinking about their name, if they care about their name, learn their name. Like, for Pete's sake, don't think about the next thing you want to say. That's selfish. That's thinking about yourself, not thinking about them. Speak in terms of other people's interests. Like, literally, why are you thinking about the next thing you want to say? Ask them questions. Be genuinely curious about things they're curious about, right? Like, learn how to. How to care about what they care about. And I'll tell you, almost everybody, if. If you find out what they care about and get them excited about it, it's fun to learn about that, right? You learn about something that you never knew about before. I still remember a guy that I got stuck with at one point that everybody's like, oh, he's the worst guy ever. He never talks. He never whatever. And I was with this guy and back when I was doing some government contracting again to make the ends meet, and I was like, okay, I am going to find a way to get this guy to talk. And so I just kept asking questions, asking questions. He's an older guy. Finally, I asked him, like, some question. He started talking about mountain biking. He's like, like 70. And he, like, when he started talking about mountain biking, he came alive. And so it was really cool because then I could ask him questions about that. So if you ask people what they care about, then you can build rapport. Once you build rapport, then you're kind of on the same. Same page there. So as far as strategic relationships in business, I think it was like my third year in business. We. We got to like 42 million, and then that next year. 40 million. 42 million. Somewhere in that. That range in volume, that next year, I felt like I was working so much harder, clawing and scraping for that next deal, and I only got to like 43 or 45 million, something like that. Just a little bit more. And I'm like, how? I was like, I don't have any more time in the day. And I still remember Gary Keller, like, hearing Gary Keller in a seminar, and he's like. He's like, hey, if you. If you think you're going to do more just by working harder, that's cheating, right? It's like, get smarter, not just work hard.

I was at that same event.

Yeah, it's so true. And so I started thinking, okay, how can I do better? How can you? And then I started focusing on that. And then literally, what you focus on expands your reticular activating system. If you don't know about that, look it up, read about it. But I heard somebody say he got stuck right around that 40 million mark, and. And he had a mentor of his say, here's if you want to break through that, as the leader, you've got to stop thinking about how you can get that next one deal, that next two deals, and start thinking about how you need five deals, 10 deals. Look for those strategic relationships. And so what I did, I went like, I came from the investor background, so I found this massive wholesaler. They spend over six figures a month on advertising. And I just called them up, and I said, hey, what do you guys do with all the deals that. That you can't buy at 65 cents on the dollar? And they're like, well, we give them two agents. But we tried all this stuff. It's not worth our time. Nothing happens with it. So basically, they. They sit and die. And I'm like, send them to me. I'll monetize them. And they're like, no, no, no. We. There's this. This agent. She's one of the top agents in the world, and she doesn't. You know, we sent her a thousand leads, and she's closed six of those deals. And I'm like, I, like, send them. I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And one thing you'll learn about me is persistence breaks resistance. Right, Right. So I kept calling them and calling them and calling them, and finally they. They came back and they said, they're like, okay, Kris, here, we'll give you. We'll give you the. They sent me 150 leads. 70 of them had already sold a long time ago. 30 of them were out of market. So there was like 40 something, 40 leads or so. And I'm like, well, if this other girl got six deals with. With a thousand, I got to get six with 40. So I was calling. I mean, pulling every trick I knew out of the book, and I got six deals. I called them up, and I was like, hey, guys, I just closed six deals. Tell me where I send the referral check or Give me your W9 so I can give you a referral fee. And they're like, wait, you closed six deals? Like, Kris, we really liked you, but you were so annoying because you just kept calling us every week. I told him to pull up, like, 150 leads from five years ago so that you would just decide to let it go. And he's like, you got as many as they got with the new ones. Are you kidding me? They're like, come into the office. So we came in, started building this out. And the crazy thing is, at this point, I send them. I send them about $60,000 a month in referral. A month. So they're making about three quarters of a million dollars in referral fees just from what I'm sending them, which is just. Just crazy. So we were able to build that out like that. And I was, you know, from there, I taught some of my listing agents how to take those deals. And then all those listings creates lots of buyers, so we were able to bring on more buyer's agents. And. And we really. I mean, that's where we really jumped. You know, the next year, I think we went to 60 million and 80 million, then 125 million, something like. Anyway, last year we were at 167 million, and this year we're. We're working to get to 200 million both on and off market.

That is unbelievable. All right, so let's back into vision. You know, so you have 10 businesses, a lot of people that you're trying to corral in these different businesses. So talk about the practical application. It's easy to say vision, and it's important as a leader, but how do you practically roll it out into. Into your world?

Yeah, so vision is you've got to be able to see. See where you're going. Right. Nobody wants to. I was just talking to a friend of mine. He's actually. He was a pastor at a church, and he ended up leaving that church. And I asked him what was the main reason he left the church. And he was like, chris, he's like, every time we had a leadership meeting, I just said to him before going into it, I was like, give us a vision. Give us a vision. And every time we went into it, it was just not clear. It was murky. Right. And if you're a leader without vision, again, as a Christian guy, there's a verse in the Bible says, without vision, the people perish. Right. And it doesn't mean they necessarily die physically, but their insides die. And the whole idea as a leader, your job is to make people come alive. Right. They're like, to be the best version of themselves. I think about one of my favorite movies, Old School. Lars, you remember the movie Chariots of Fire? Do you ever see that movie? Oh, man. There's this awesome scene in that movie where Eric Little, who is an Olympic athlete, right? He was, he was going to run in the Olympics. And his sister was so upset because they were also. They'd always talked about being missionaries to China. And she's like, why are you, why are you doing this? Why aren't you just coming to China with me? And his response was amazing. And I think about this as a leader, right? He said, he's like, you know what? God made me for China and I'm going to go to China. But God also made me fast. And when I run, I feel his pleasure. And that's the whole job as a leader is to help people live into that place where they live as the people that they were created to live as, right? And if you, as a leader, help them get into the right zones, the right spots, then you, you really enjoy it. Zig Ziglar says if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life, right? So that idea of like, how do you help people get into a place where they love what they do so that you win together, right? Because you can have everything again, Zig Ziglag. You can have everything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want in life. And so that's the best way to have that vision and then help people realize how we can do this together and win together.

Awesome. And then last was problem solving. So what does that look like, practically? Are people bringing you into, like, at a certain point where something can't be solved by the. The sort of regular way of doing it? What's your zone of genius there?

Yeah. So there's an old school book. One of my buddies who sold his satellite company for a gazillion dollars had a book that he made his whole company read, every single person. It's a 60 page book from right after World War II, like right in the depression or World War I, during the depression era. It's called the Go Getter, right? And you can just Google it, it's like on PDF. And the whole idea behind it was there were no jobs because it was during the Depression. And this guy was trying to get a job. And so there was always basically the guy that was hiring, gave like an impossible task, go get this vase that he knew was impossible to get. And this guy, literally every time he found a no, he went to a place where he could get to a yes, right? Getting the yes. There's a book, you know about that. But that idea of like, anytime there's a no, how do you Find the yes. And that, that's. That whole idea behind it is you don't take no for an answer. But. But you don't have the tool, the one tool that's a sledgehammer, right? You say, okay, they don't want to do this, but how can we get to a similar position where we can both agree that this is a great outcome and really get there? I think Tony Robbins says this. He says it's not about not having enough resources. It's about having enough resourcefulness. Right? And so that's that idea of if you get a no, how can you just kind of sit back and think, okay, how can we get to a yes and maybe not go the same route that this person has already said no. There's another book, it's called Pitch Anything, where he talks about, like, this power frame, and, like, somebody will set up, like, this power frame where it's kind of like an absolute no. But once you, once you start breaking into that power frame, you basically have to change the script. You know, he tells the story about how, you know, he'll be there and he'll just start drawing, like, stop the conversation and start drawing something on paper, start doing something to stop that pushing. Because imagine if you're pushing somebody, they're always going to push back. So how do you stop pushing so that they push back and just kind of flip that script a little bit and make it so that you can kind of come up. Come up with a solution where everybody wins.

Awesome. I want to give you a chance to kind of talk about the different things you have going on. But let me ask you this question. So for someone who's, like, earlier in the journey, where they're still, you know, maybe they hit that 20, 30 million and they're starting a real estate team or, you know, what are some words of wisdom maybe, that you would give your earlier self, knowing what you know now, the two or three things that tripped you up the most, what advice would you give your. Your younger self?

Well, let me, Let me ask you a question, because I think this is an interesting question. Somebody asked me this the other day, Lars, if somebody said you could go back eight years, 10 years and take a pill to know everything that you know today, how much money would you pay for that eight years ago? If you could tell your old self, write a check for this much money.

Would I have the same money that I did eight years ago, or could.

I use today same money you did eight years ago, I would pay all.

The money I earned in the Last eight years to get that for sure in a minute.

Right? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I thought that question was really interesting. Somebody's like, would you pay a million dollars? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've spent.

Over a million dollars just on freaking coaches and masterminds.

Yeah. So what would I say to somebody that's new? So if you're doing less than 25 deals, so I think winning, it's just activity and skill, right? And then once you're doing enough deals, it goes into leverage, right? So if you're doing less than 25 deals, what I would just say is you need to talk to more people. That's just it. You're not talking to enough people. Below 25 deals, you're just not talking to enough people. At the same time, you need to be investing a minimum of an hour a day in personal development education. Right? Lars's podcast. I've got a podcast, Uncommon Real Estate. The average person listens to seven podcasts. Keep listening to Lars's. I would love to be one of your other seven. Right? So, like, there are so many good podcasts out there that you should listen at least an hour a day, right? But then make sure you're talking to enough people. Even a terrible salesperson, if you talk to enough people, is going to outperform a great salesperson that doesn't talk to enough people. Now, if you're at like 30 deals at that point, if you don't have an assistant, you need an assistant. You need to start looking at your. Your pay scale, right? Because if you're doing things below your pay grade, if you make 100 grand a year, your. Your time is worth $50 an hour. So you start. Need to start looking at that and say, okay, how much am I making? Am I doing things below my pay grade? And should I put that out? There's a book called Clockwork where I just learned so much about it, where it says, you know, write down everything you do for two weeks, put it on sticky note, put it on your wall, and then start looking at the things that are way below your pay grade, and then put that aside and hire somebody to do those things, right? So that's what I would just say there. So it ends up being activity and skill. And then once you're at like, 30, 35 deals, then the real key is leverage, right? You've got to get people to do the things that are not in your genius zone. You got to live in that genius zone. Everything outside the genius zone, hire somebody to do and your Pay will go way, way up.

Awesome. So, so what are the. I know there's the podcast, but what are the different sort of things you do that people. I want to ask you one more question, but what's the best way to sort of get a feel for, for what you do? I know you've got the coaching going on. I know you've got the podcast. Kind of give a little bit of a way for people to, to get to know you and what you're putting out there.

Yeah. So the coaching stuff I teach people how to do what I talked about with the partnering with investors, that's called REI Revive. I have a title company. I have an insurance company. My wife has a lending company. I have a construction company. What else? I'm losing my mind on some of the other stuff. I have a fix and flip company. I've got a rental portfolio. Obviously I'm a part of exp. So now I have downline income coming, residual income coming from there and legal shield. If you are a, if you're selling houses, I mean everybody that buys a house should have a will. They should have the ability to call, you know, an attorney if you're doing any sort of investment stuff to be able to have an attorney on call for, you know, 39 bucks a month. That's a, that's a no brainer. So I help people with that. So those are the, the 10 businesses. I feel like I'm leaving something out, but Those are the 10 businesses that I've got right there. Oh, my retail team. So I've 11. So anyway, awesome.

And what's the best way to plug into the podcast? Do you have a site for it or just on a podcast player? It's Uncommon Real Estate, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So our Facebook group, the Uncommon Real Estate Group is an easy way to do that. If you go to wholesalinginc.com wholesalinginc.com revive that'll get you right there. And then also I've got a on Instagram because so many people were so generous with me and would take my calls when I was learning and growing and I would, anybody I liked their vibe on a podcast, I would just reach out to and I couldn't believe how many people would take their time to answer me and all that other stuff. So I try to do that. Like, and that's me. At least someday I don't know that I'll be able to do this anymore, but at least for now I try to answer any DMs on Instagram. It's Radrock and an old high school nickname. Not my name, but Crad Rock. C R A D D R O C K. It's cheesy, I know. But yeah, I try to answer any DMs that I get from there just because people did that for me.

Awesome. So, last question. So this is definitely not the EXP show yet. When I talk to someone that has achieved at the highest levels, especially in multiple businesses, understand leverage and scaling and all of it, why, why put the business, the retail business on the EXP platform? What's a couple reasons you would you put out there?

Yeah, I'll tell you. I, you know, the tough thing is you hear a lot of people that came from KW go to EXP and they, they end up hating on kw, proven all that. But I just feel like if you want the tallest building, you don't need to tear down somebody else's building. You just build your building taller. Right? Like, that's the key. So I still love KW. I mean, literally when I was in ministry 10 years ago, I. I literally was selling, trying to sell my blood to NIH for $300 to buy Christmas presents for my family, right? And now I'm a multimillionaire many times over because of what I learned at KW and the people I met there. So I love kw. What I did find was, I think REMAX was where everybody was, and then there was new technology, there was a shift and stuff, and then KW. Basically there was a mass exodus from ReMax to KW. And I think what's happened with technology, what we found with COVID and realizing you can work remotely, when you realize that you don't need like regional directors and office owners and all these different people that need to get paid all the way up, but that there's really smart people that you can kind of go into their downline and then they're incentivized to literally transfer all of their information to you. It just made a lot of. It makes a lot of sense to be able to have people basically incentivized to help other people win, right? Like, I like helping people regardless, but if I can make a lot of money by helping other people, I'm like, dang, that's the biggest win win in the history of time, right? Like, that's awesome. So, yeah, that was pretty much where it was. And also, you know, I've got a couple expansion locations and with EXP expansion, it's just, it's a piece of cake. Literally, there's no extra caps there's no other personalities you have to deal with. You literally can open up anywhere you want to open up and you fit under your team cap model instead of having to start paying new caps. And it's just a lot cheaper and there's less personalities involved.

Awesome. Is there a very direct way to get in touch with you? Like if somebody definitely wants to know how to coach the getting 5 to 10 deals per investor or they want to talk to you about exp. What's the most direct way to get in touch with you?

Yeah, so. So the most direct way is. Is through Instagram. Just DM me there. That's like, you know, the only one that no vas nobody else. I'm answering those DMs personally.

Awesome. And that's crad C R A D R o C K. 2 Ds C.

R A D R O C K. Which. It's so cheesy.

It's your last name with an R right at the end of the D's Cred rock.

Come on. Yeah, it's so cheesy. But hey, I made it when I started my Instagram years ago, and my wife keeps saying, you need to make a business account. I'm like, you know what? Who cares at this point?

I would not go backwards and restart over. All right, brother. I appreciate you and your time and the wisdom. I was looking down. If you're watching the video of this, I was looking down because I was physically taking notes on stuff. You were. I've got three more books to read. I've got to read how to Win Friends and Influence People. I've only read it once. I've got nine times left on that. So really, really good. Appreciate you and being in business with you. So we'll talk to you soon.

Appreciate it, man. Thanks, brother.

See you.