The Mindset of a Massively Successful Team Leader w/Ryan O'Neill

All right, welcome back, real estate team builders Lars Hedinborg, the founder of Real Estate B School. I've got Ryan O' Neill on today, who last year, what was it, 2200 sides, 770 million in Minneapolis, couple hundred agents over the 20 year period in terms of recruiting. And it all came with, without any heartache, without any mistakes whatsoever. I'm totally kidding, Ryan. We're going to dig in today. Just I think I'm going to call it the good, bad, ugly of selling probably 10,000 plus homes in your journey, I would imagine. But give us a little bit of an intro. Like tell us like, you know, you got into real estate, you know, what was your background? You know, keep it maybe to two or three minutes just to give folks a flavor of kind of how you ended up with this massive business.

No, I appreciate it, thank you, Lars. Love the work you do, love seeing your stuff you put out. So it's an honor to. Pleasure to join you today. Just briefly, my background, I started in the early 2000s. I am both my brother Tim and I are kind of lifelong musicians. And so after college was really full time in the music business, playing piano, selling some of our music and was enjoying it a ton. But this was the early 2000s and I had heard a little bit about investment property and this was a time when you could buy investment property with less money down. And I kind of dove in and started to buy a couple investment properties, not really knowing anything about investment property, but in the process of doing so, got my real estate license. And then I quickly realized that I liked working with other people in an investment property capacity. And so again got the license, started working with others, helping them invest in real estate. And so I got my license again early 2000s and really actively sold real estate. From, say until probably 2012. I was actively working with buyers, sellers, investors. And then at that point in 2012, I went all in sort of as the agents on our team, on the Minnesota real estate team, as my clients. And so I don't actively sell now. You know, my job is really as the kind of the sales manager, broker for our team. Specifically, we're one of many teams at our brokerage. Our brokerage is ReMax Advantage plus in the Twin Cities. Lots of teams, lots of individual agents. We are just one of them. But again, my day to day role now is helping and assist agents essentially on their transactions.

Yeah, so let's. There's something that you said in the way that you said it that I just want to tease out a little bit you said you made the shift from working with buyers, sellers, and investors as your clients to the agents are your clients. Just talk about the mindset of that a little bit. And then I want to get into recruiting and retention, which certainly has to be one of your core, you know, gifts. But talk about that statement there and what that means to you.

Yeah, it's hard to do a number of things well. You have to know yourself, know your own gifts, and maybe what you're good at or what you're not good at. And I think sometimes what happens is it's easy to try to do too much. And for me, I kind of sensed I was getting busier selling, helping buyers and sellers. We started to recruit some agents. I was working in that capacity, and I felt like if I kept trying to do everything, that all. Everything would suffer, versus becoming a little more focused and saying, you know, what? Where is my heart? Kind of calling me? You know, sort of looking within and saying, what do I enjoy doing? Where do I feel I can have the biggest impact? And that's why I went sort of all in on our agents, even though I, you know, I've always enjoyed working with clients. But again, it's a time and a focus more than anything else that caused me to do that.

Man, that's awesome. I could just go deep on all of that. But was there a process that you went through where you just like an annual process or a retreat or something where you were able to slow down a little bit and get clear on where you wanted to place your efforts in the future? I think a lot of times, busy agents, you know, we have guys come into our program, like doing 5 million top line GCI, but a million and a half of it is their own production.

Sure.

And they have, like, these 20 agents that are out there just sort of flailing with not getting the. The love and care that they need from the team leader. So what does it look like for someone. You probably played the game of real estate at a high level, but what does it look like for you to slow down? And what's that process like to get clear on where you want to spend your time in the future?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important for agents, brokers, team leaders, aspiring team leaders. You have to look within, again, and really determine what do you enjoy doing, what gives you joy, what gives you purpose, what gives you the most meaning. And I think, again, without being too philosophical, I think when you do that, your time, your energy, your everything will be put forward with that. And it really won't be a job. It really won't be work. And so for me, it was also the realization, Lars, that I could generate a lead, a buyer, seller, or investor, pass them to someone on our team, and the customer would have just as good or better of an experience than I ever could provide. So I quickly learned, and for us, again, our team is just called the Minnesota Real Estate team. And one of the reasons why we called it that is it's not the Ryan show. Because I learned early on people didn't care. They don't care. Great, Ryan. Okay, you know, nice to meet you. They're looking for a certain level of customer service, a certain level of care, a certain level of follow through, a certain level of do you. Will you help me? And I quickly realized early on that it was about finding good people who had a similar mindset. And that's, you know, that happened early on. But I should say too, you know, if to your point of, you know, a really busy agent doing a ton of business, they've got 15, 20 agents. You know, there isn't a progression like you have to do a team or you have to then do a bigger team or a mega team or whatever. Everybody, in my opinion, has certain skills and gifts that makes them more prone to do what they're called to do. And I think one of the mistakes our industry makes is the neck. One more level. There's just one more level. I got to do this, this, this, this, this. And I see as a result of that, so many bad things happen. So in my opinion, there isn't one next level. It doesn't mean you need to go out and start a mega team of, you know, 800 agents. You have to figure out what makes you tick.

Yeah, that's awesome. So I want to get into recruiting and the finding good people. Although you are picking on the sign, if you're watching on YouTube, you are clearly picking on what I have right here.

I like that, though.

Ready to take your business to the next level. But right, just tell this doesn't necessarily. So what you're getting at is like there's like a constant striving that happens that is like, it's just a never ending. Like there's always more homes to sell. There's always more agents you could recruit. Any advice around that and it could be like, I don't know, gratitude or a contentment practice. Any advice you can give someone who's caught in that rut of comparison, or they're constantly like just growing for growth's sake. What advice would you give them?

Yeah, what I would say is I've seen unfortunately, so many of the negative things that happen when people can focus too much on whether it's income, whether it's sales, some of the unhappy things that can happen in the industry, whether it's divorce, it's burnout, it's all these negative things that can happen. And I think to your point, Lars, I think your banner is spot on. My point is, for example, you may be a super productive agent, and that's your calling. Being a team leader doesn't mean that it's better. And in other words, that doesn't. I've seen a lot of agents who have been really good solo agents. They get into the team thing and they're like, yeah, this is totally not my gig. I should have rather focused on taking my real estate agent business to the next level. And, and how can I be more efficient, do the things that I want instead of feeling like, okay, I'm an agent now, I need a small team now I need a bigger team in that sense of the next level. I just think there's so many unique gifts people need to have in each of those spaces that can make it difficult. Yeah.

Awesome. All right, so let's get into recruiting and retention. So clearly. And when did you bring on your first agent outside of your own production?

Probably 2003. So almost 20 years.

Okay, so almost 20 years at this recruiting and retaining and all of the awesomeness that comes with it, because when you're first doing it, you have no idea how to manage salespeople. Did you come from a background of managing? Well, you said you were in music.

Not at all.

Okay, so talk about that. You know, when you started surrounding yourself with like minded people, was it thoughtful? Did you have core values? What was the process and how has it evolved over the years?

Yeah, I'm a, I'm a kind of a small town guy, grew up in a very small town. I'm a kind of a, you know, maybe very blue collar background. I, I always think in terms of our agent and say, why would the agent want to work with me? In other words, what's in it for them? From a money standpoint, from a training standpoint, from a lead standpoint, from a support, from a care standp standpoint, from a long term business standpoint. I think if you're looking to recruit agents, you have to realize it's competitive, but you need a strong value proposition and it can't just be fluff. The nice thing about the business, we're in is that if people are not having a good experience, if they feel like, hey, the commission splits are bad, the leads are bad, the training, whatever, it's not good, they will leave. And that's a good thing because it forces accountability back to you as the team leader, that there's gotta be meat on the bone, there's gotta be something there for people. So I think as you think about, you know, building a team, growing a team, think from your agent's perspective and just say, why would someone work with me? And so that's what I did early on. That's what I'm continually doing is saying, what is our value proposition? How does it compare versus anyone else as far as options? And I just want to be one of the options. In other words, I don't go out and call everyone's agents and say, hey, we're the best and the rest of you are horrible and you need to come work with us. We're in a really small market. And who may be with Keller Williams, Coldwell Banker, another remax exp, whatever one day could be calling you the next and saying, hey, you know what? I've heard about you guys, I'd like to learn a little bit more. So you have to remember you're building a brand, you're building goodwill with your fellow brokers and agents and it's a long term game. It truly is a long term game.

And did you have that long term vision when you started doing it? Were you thinking like, man, this is, were you thinking these things? Or you can look back and say like, man, it really is a small community or were you, did you have a heart of like, man, I'm going to be doing this? I could see myself doing this for 20 years. You know, I might as well play at the highest level.

Yeah, I didn't really have a long, truly a long term vision. You know, it's, I'm very much like my mom is 86 years old, she's very much a doer. I would say one, you know, there's a number of things I don't do well. But one thing that has helped is I'm a lot like my mom. If I've got a list of 10 things I need to complete, I'm going to hammer through that list and get it completed. And I think from an execution standpoint, it's easy as a team leader to be really philosophical and very strategic and very big picture. Great stuff, really important stuff. But I would say one thing, that if I kind of self analyze one Thing is, I'm kind of in the trenches daily. And on the one hand, some may say that's too much, you're doing it too much. But on the other hand, I think in a lot of ways it's benefited our team because people know that I'm with there, I'm in the trenches, I'm picking up the phone, I'm calling, I'm emailing. And so yeah, for me it hasn't been like a long term plan, if you will, Lars. It's been more, more of a, just kind of a daily process and learning over time.

Let me ask you, how do you, how would you measure, like a few ways that you measure, measure the success of an agent that comes on your team? Are you, are there some newer agents that come in, you measure their success in a certain way or established agents? How do you measure success? Hours, money, stress, you know, achievements outside of real estate? Tell me how you do that.

Yeah, I mean, I think for me it's, it's listening to the agent and asking what's most important to them, first of all. So really listening and determining, you know, what is most important to you as the agent? What do you want to accomplish in the first three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, you know, being practical, obviously, for a lot of people getting in the industry, they need to make money. And so seeing people starting to sell homes, starting to close deals, starting to make the income that they're wanting. You know, one thing I would say for current team leaders or aspiring team leaders is you can't want it more than your agent. And I think one thing that people appreciate over the years, maybe about me is I am not going to be there to micromanage our agent. And what I found is that people either have it in their heart to show up and to kind of get busy living, or they frankly don't. And it's hard to know when you're meeting someone initially. But I think what I found over the years is that no matter how hard you push, no matter how hard you say, do this, be on the zoom call, do that, if it's not in their heart to do the job, it is not going to work long term. It may work for a while. And that's where again, I take, I would say, Lars, a little bit more of a human approach. I really just try to focus on our agent and them personally and determine what makes them tick, but then help them get to where they want to go. And in some cases we have agents that do not succeed. They come into the industry and they don't engage, they don't show up, they don't do what we encourage them to do and they don't make it. And again, I know you see it a ton where just people, they don't know what the business really is all about. And so they think it is rosy and sunshine and rainbows and showing million dollar homes and big commissions and they don't see the daily phone calls, the prospecting, the open houses, the long days, the grinding it out that agents have to do to make it in this industry.

Awesome. Let's, I want to talk about two, two more areas. Let's talk about ramping up a newer agent. So let's say an agent that's not as established but you know they can succeed in your system. What does that ramp up look like? Is it a 90 day, a six month, a 12 month, kind of lay that out like you're so really for any agent listening, like if you're not successful, these are the things you need to do for the next 12 months. But specifically, what does it look like to ramp up a new agent on your team?

Yeah, for our team we really, you know, we do a lot from a lead generation standpoint. So a lot of business we're generating, we do a weekly radio show in our market. Obviously we do a lot with Zillow, a variety of the lead sources that are out there. We're generating this business, passing it to our agents to try to help them work and build their business. And so I think the ramp up is realizing and being okay with making mistakes, realizing that you don't come out of school and come out of our training that we're doing where you know everything about everything. What, what I try to encourage our, our agent to do is to focus on the client, focus on his or her best interest and if you don't know something, just be okay saying, you know what, I don't know and let me, let me check, let me make a phone call, whether they're calling me, whether they're calling our team's help desk. In other words. The reason I bring that up, Lars, is I see a lot of agents who, they're their own worst enemy. They think they need to figure out everything about everything before they move forward. And what I've noticed is customers just want someone that cares, that is going to pick up the phone, that's going to call them back, that's going to treat them that humanize them and do the best to help them as a consumer. And so for us, it's a lot of some formal training, but it's learning by doing and then starting to transact and starting to learn through these transactions and learn through the process. And that's where again, from a ramp up, you know, we have some agents that get on the team in the first month, two months, three months, they're closing 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10 deals. We have some people that are their own worst enemy. They think about everything so much. They think, boy, I'm just, I'm not as good as that other agent in my market. Or I'm brand new. They're going to tell I'm brand new. You have to have a little bit of, of fire that gives you that confidence to say, you know what, hey, I'm not perfect, but I'm going to do my best and that's all that matters. And I want to help people. And I think with that alone in your mindset, the sky's the limit.

What would you say? And I think you might have just touched on it, but what would you say? Is that the number one thing, if you like the number one character trait, that if you look back on all the agents that have come into your system and been massively successful, what's the one thing you can pin it to?

Consistency of work ethic. Consistency of work ethic. What's hard is this job has so much flexibility. And especially with a team like ours, you know what? I'm not there to micromanage and be big brother and call them and what are you doing and why are you not selling more? People like that, I mean, they like that I'm treating them as a, as a friend to help them. But I think what happens, Lars, is that with so much independence in this job, it can be the death of agents if there's a strong enough fire that gets you out of bed. Maybe you have small kids at home and you need to make money. Maybe you are super competitive. Maybe you are just inherently motivated. You want to achieve, you gotta, you know, you have to figure out what makes you tick. And if you don't have that. I've seen a lot of people run the 50 yard dash in this industry. They don't have a lot of sales, they don't like make a lot of money. And they throw their hands up and say, this sucks, I'm out, I'm done. You gotta be a marathon runner. You've gotta look long term. And that alone. Again, I've seen some people that they lack a lot of other skills, but they're super consistent with A daily work ethic and they do really well in this industry.

That's awesome. All right, let's, let's land. I've got one final question for you, but what was I going to ask you? Retention. When you look at agents that come in and maybe they're successful, but they leave versus agents that are like, man, I'm going to be on the Minnesota real estate team forever. What are the two or three things that like retention is all about? These two or three things?

Yeah, retention. If you are in the business of working with agents, manning managing agents, you are going to have very, very good people leave. And here's the thing, as much as possible, don't take it personally. Don't turn off their email and banish them and send their license back. Don't get super pissed. I know it's hard not to when you've invested in people. But here's the thing I learned early on, Lars. This job, this team, it's not about me. And if someone chooses to start their own brokerage, to start their own team, to go to a new firm. You want to learn. Yeah. Certainly you want to learn, hey, is there something I could have done better? Is there something that you didn't like? But at the end of the day, wish people well, kill them with kindness, support them. In my opinion, life's too short. And I think for me that has again, in small markets. I think it can help you, I mean, just from a business standpoint, if you are known as just being supportive. Because again, there's so many models out there, brokerage models, team models. Because of the way I do things doesn't mean it's the right way and it's the only way. There are certain people that are going to be incredibly loyal to your team no matter what. I've got a lot of them, really good hearted people. They could run their own brokerage, they could run their own team, they could do a variety of things, but they like what we offer. And I've had a lot of good people leave for again, a variety of reasons. So I think the biggest thing I would say with retention is realize it's gonna, you're gonna lose people. Get over it in some sense. Try to learn from it, but, but, but then pour back into your existing people. Most of the best agents that I've recruited over the years are all referrals. I don't actively recruit. I literally don't call other agents or other brokers in our market. I. Almost the entire team growth has been referral based. And I Just want to be one of the options. 1 of 2, 3, 4, or 5. So again, I'm not a big cold caller. I'm not a big whatever, but you've got to have your value proposition. And your best recruiting and retention tools are your existing agents. If they're liking it, they're going to stay and they're going to refer you as well.

That's awesome. And I'm just, just curious, what has the agent growth look like? Was it like, you know, sort of slow and steady for a period of. Of years? Like 10 years, you went from one agent to 10 agents and then 100 and 200 or like, has it been steady growth?

Slow and steady? We've been about the same size for probably the last two, three, four years. Again, I don't have an internal recruiter. I don't do a lot of hard calling of other agents. Part of it is because it's my time invested with the agents. And so it's kind of like to my point earlier. Yeah, Ryan, Is it better to have 400 agents on the team? Well, could I do what I'm doing with 400? I probably couldn't, realistically. So it's like just determining what is that level for you. And maybe it's a team of five agents and you still actively sell. You do your thing, you've got your five people, you can pour into them. Just don't give in to the there's. The more is always better. Know your own skills. Ask someone like a Lars. Talk out to. Talk to Lars and say, lars, what do I do well? What do I not do well? Give me honest feedback. You need someone like that in your life. Because I've seen too many people try to do things that maybe is not the best thing for them and their personality.

Awesome. So, last question. If you had to give us a resource, probably a book or two that have, like, even looking back, maybe it wasn't written in 2003, but, you know, maybe one on the personal development side and one on the business building side. What are like, invaluable books or resources that, you know, we have to consume if we're gonna, you know, embody this sort of business builder mindset or, you know, be successful in business building.

Yeah, it's really good question. It's funny, Lars, my wife is a huge reader. I am not a huge reader. She gives me such a bad time. I do like some of the podcasts. I think, again, that the business of real estate, the business of teams, is all about people. And on a human Level, it's, it's how you treat people. And again, without being preachy or anything like that, I think the Bible, you know, I'm a long time, I grew up, you know, I'm an Irish Catholic, I've got some friends who are priests. But when you look at, how are you treating people, how are you reacting, how are you dealing with situations? You know, again, to me, it's not rocket science. It's nothing revolutionary I'm doing by any means, but it's trying to drill down and just look on those daily things that I do. My conversations I'm having with people, my meetings, how am I treating people? What am I saying? What am I not saying? Do I care? Those little things that you do can take you, in my opinion, way further than any of the business books or strategy or planning. People just want to know you care, that you care about them. And so if you do nothing else, maybe find a way to kind of self analyze and just say, how can I do that? How can I pour back into the people that are working with me, yet have the life that I want to live?

I think that might be the best answer to that question that I've ever gotten. Yeah, I mean, this has been really awesome. I think I took like 5, 6 page of notes, so I wasn't checking my phone as I was. I have my head down. You know, your, your humility and just heart of service. Those are the two things that I would probably pin your success on. And, and maybe it's your wiring or maybe it's something that you've, you know, learned is the only way to successfully do this. I appreciate your time. This has been amazing. Is there any thing, I don't think you have anything to sell, but is there anything of value that you want to sort of drop on the group? Any follow you on this because you're dropping motivation or anything like that.

Two real quick last things. One is again, if you are catching this podcast and you haven't watched Lars other stuff, it's super good, super helpful, super valuable. I started getting Lars's emails and I mean it sincerely, it's a lot of great stuff. So I'm grateful, Lars, thank you. But I encourage others to check out the other episodes. Second thing I would say real briefly is if you are a team leader, you are looking to grow a team, don't hesitate to reach out to me, phone or email. I'm more than happy to help. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't charge anything like that. If you just. You need a phone call. You need somebody to talk to about what you're doing, Please reach out. I'm happy to do that. But again, thank you for the time, Lars. Keep up the great work, my friend. I love getting those emails and seeing your YouTube videos.

Awesome. Thanks a lot, Ryan. Appreciate it.