Creator Interviews: Amanda Goetz; I've spent the last 15 years building my career, not followers.

Hello, you're listening to the Level Up Creators Podcast. Amanda Northcutt here, founder and CEO. We help creators and digital thought leaders like you turn your knowledge and experience into rock-solid recurring revenue, and we're so glad you're here. Welcome. Our distinguished guest today is Amanda Goetz. Amanda is a 2-time founder, 4-time CMO, brand builder, and content creator on marketing, personal and professional growth, inspiring over 150,000 people every week through her social media insights and weekly newsletter. Life's a Game. Her debut book will be published in the fall of 2025. And if you've been following either of us on LinkedIn or Twitter, you know that Amanda and I and the entire Level Up team are working on a major campaign together to take Amanda from around $10K MRR or monthly recurring revenue to $50K MRR without gaming the system by the end of this year. So check out those weekly updates from either of us on LinkedIn every Tuesday in 2024. So without further ado. Welcome, Amanda.

Thank you for having me. This has been so fun doing this, building the plane while we're flying it thing that we're doing together.

All in public.

All in public. Everybody's watching.

I'm super excited to have this conversation today. And I want to start with a little bit more of your background for people who are not super familiar with you yet. And, you know, frankly, you've had a hell of a career so far. Can you take us back a few years and tell us how you got to where you are now?

Yeah, I'll try to make this a shorter version, but I started my career at Ernst& Young where I managed the Entrepreneur of the Year program. So I was analyzing founders and businesses at a very young age. And then I moved, that took me from Chicago to New York City where I decided to kind of do a 180 with my career. And I went and worked for a celebrity wedding planner. Where I managed his brand across licensing deals, a reality TV show, and planned over 100 weddings. So I think time management became really key in that part of my life. Then from there, I actually got the entrepreneurial bug to start my first company, which was a tech company in the wedding space. Did that for a few years when I— the New York City tech scene, This was about 2011, 2012. It was really heating up. It was when Union Square Ventures was just on the ground and where they were doing female founder breakfasts that I was at. So, I've been around the startup community for a very long time and did that for a few years, joined an accelerator. I view that as my MBA for startups and building. The tack when you're in it, you learn so fast and so much. It's just trial by fire. That led me to a female pitch night one night at The Knot, where the founder of The Knot, who had been kind of a mentor of mine for many years, she pulled me aside and was like, "Hey, let's let's grab coffee tomorrow." So we went for coffee, and she was like, "How's it really going?" And I was like, "This is hard." Like, and I had just found out I was pregnant with my second baby, and so she's like, "Listen." We're kind of doing what you're doing, and we're gonna do it faster and better. And she's like, "Why don't you come lead? Kind of go to market for a new new vertical." So I went to the knot, and over time there kind of started playing Monopoly. I like loved. I had been in the wedding industry for so long. I was like, "I would like to do a little product marketing. I want to take over brand marketing." I and so eventually I had a team of fifty people, and I was head of brand, and. That, gosh, I learned so much. That was really like, I think in your career, there's like a job where you're like, those are your formative years. Those are mine. Like I worked with some of the smartest executives and it was incredible. That led me to the pandemic. Yes, I was leading marketing for The Knot, a wedding company, when the world ended and 400,000 weddings were canceled in 24 hours. That was fun. Didn't sleep for a few weeks. Then I decided a few months into the pandemic, I decided to launch my second startup, which was a CPG company. I was trying to help women manage their stress and anxiety without alcohol. And so, I launched my supplement business, House of Wise. That was 2020 from my garage in Charlotte, North Carolina, my little pandemic house that I moved to to homeschool my kids. And then did that for a few years, sold it 2 years ago now, went to go work for another company as just kind of a VP of marketing. I was kind of taking a little bit of a version of a sabbatical, if you will. I was like, career is not on the front burner anymore. I'm going to take care of my health, focus on family. And then 8 months later, I was like, okay, I'm getting the itch again. I want to go build something. I want to do something. And so, I decided to try to figure out how to monetize my audience in a way that didn't feel like I was an influencer, that it was truly a knowledge creator, which is a funny, weird line that I'm sure we can talk about. But started in September of last year, first a newsletter, then I launched a community. And realized quickly that I'm like, I don't know how to really scale this thing to— this is a whole other world. So, that's, that's kind of now what's led us to here.

That's a lot. And that is like all over the place. I mean, that is, it's so interesting. I mean, you have such a rich variety of experiences in different industry verticals and I mean, different team environments and different stages of companies. I mean, you worked for a Big 4 out of school and then got your Oh my gosh, like baptism by fire, how they treat people for the first 2 years of their careers is completely insane. Yeah. And then going into, how did you know that marketing was like, when did you know in your gut that that was really kind of what you were made for? It's marketing, really entrepreneurship, but you really drilled down into marketing there for a while in your career.

I studied marketing, like that was my major. Ironically, my minor was in statistics. I thought I was going to go into market research. Like, I love numbers, I love— but the creative side of my brain started to take over and I realized like I'm actually just like a copywriter on steroids. Like, I love bringing a brand to life in copy and visuals.

Mm-hmm.

And I found, like, I don't know if anybody else does this. Like, tell me if you do this. Like, anytime I'm watching TV and there's a commercial, my brain instinctively starts picking apart the commercial and saying, well, who's their target demo? Why are they doing this? What is the key message of this? Like, that's just how my— like, I literally tweeted the other day, I'm sitting in the airport and I'm like, hey, Capital One, here's how I would change this billboard. But that's just how my brain is constantly working. And I think Marketing at its core is connecting with people. And that's why I loved wedding planning. Like, yes, I was managing his brand, but I loved connecting with people and learning how to navigate situations. And I could see when someone was getting frustrated about something in their family dynamic. And I'm like, oh. So there's a little bit of this Venn diagram with marketing that it's part psychology. Yeah. Part numbers, part creative.

Yeah, it's like the perfect Venn diagram for you to hit the bullseye, for sure. And you were a pretty damn competitive athlete in high school, right? I know you ended up taking a more academic path for university, but, um, that's correct, isn't it?

Yes, and as were you.

Yeah.

As well, which one day we'll do a level up game of pig basketball.

Yes, absolutely. Like, it's a date for sure. So how do you feel like what you learned in sports has played into your career? I mean, I love talking to athletes and also not just athletes, but people who were so dedicated to a craft at a young age and they, you know, competed on whatever level. In whatever vertical that, that was. How do you feel like that has informed what you do now?

So much. In fact, like that's the fractional CMO role I currently have, which is literally a community of former elite athletes started by a former NFL quarterback. And they call it like the Post calls it the athlete operating system, which I think is a very smart term for it because When you grow up in sports, you, one, embrace a growth mindset because you know there's always someone better than you and that there is a slot machine, if you will. If I put in more hours, I get something back, which is better at this skill, stronger, faster. And that determination in the face of headwinds, you get injured, you know, somebody on your team gets injured or something happens that's beyond your control. And you're like, well, these are my new circumstances. I've got to just keep going. And that to me is so relatable to the business world. Like they say that second-time founders are a smarter investment for investors because They're not as swayed. They don't ride the roller coaster as extreme. When you're doing any kind of startup, one day you think you're going to be a billionaire and the next day you're like, I don't know if I can make payroll. And, it literally can swing that drastic. And, when you're an athlete, I think your brain is a lot more able to kind of stay in the steady. It's like, cool, that was great, but There's next season. If you ever watch like press conferences, people win a big game and they're like, I'm focused on the next one. I'm already thinking about who I've got to play next. And so there's something about me that's kind of always like, I remember I woke up one day and every single Kardashian posted our product for House of Wise.

Whoa.

My friends were freaking out. They're all texting me. I literally was so focused on Well, how do I now turn this into press impressions? How do I get this into Life& Style and E! News and whatever? And, I was so on to the next thing. And, I think that that probably comes from sport.

I also struggle with that affliction, not taking time to pause and celebrate the wins. But, you're thinking 10 steps ahead, you're thinking about leverage, you're thinking about How can this be compounded, right? Like, how do we bank on these results to make the next huge thing? So, I think there's something to be said about both sides of that. I know I've overcorrected way too much in the non-celebratory side, and you in particular have encouraged me to pause, calm the F down, and— That's on our Notion homepage for our team. order is calm the F down, honestly. Because like, we're a year and a half into this. I finally feel like,

yeah,

oh, okay, this is, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We can stop the sprint portion of the startup and kind of enjoy things a little bit more.

But as a creator, like, I've had this conversation with my partner, like, the first year, like, I'm, I'm not even a year in, right? Like, I started in September, and I, I feel like that first year you I don't have a safety net. I don't come from money. I'm like, I got to make this work. And if I'm not working, no one else is going to be like, here, let me build your thing for you. So there is this first-year sprint that I think everyone feels. And there's a checkpoint for me. And I know what numbers I need to hit for it to be a checkpoint to say, okay. When I get to there, I gotta calm the F down.

That's fair, and that's really good. I mean, that's a great system, right? You know what it takes because you've been in startup world a lot. You know, you've got to like get over this one specific hump, and then there's time for a pause. So you're so close, Amanda. You're gonna be there. Um, okay, you have obviously a very strong background in startups, marketing, math. I mean, you could have gone so many different directions. You dabbled in a bunch of different things. You become an expert in a number of different things. Why are you niching down into productivity? Why has that become your thing?

It's a great question and something that was not easy. And I think there was a lot of inner work that had to happen for me to be okay niching into this direction. The first being like your identity when you pick a lane for your career tied around it, and then your personal brand gets connected to it. And I think there was a part of me that had to accept one of my dreams for my life and kind of saying, that one's not gonna happen. And that was a, like, Fortune 500 CMO. And by kind of shifting into this next lane of my career, for a while I tried to just straddle it. I was like, well, maybe this one might still happen, who knows? Right. And sometimes you have to close doors for other doors to fully open. And I accepted that, but I had to go through my feelings of what I'm letting go of so that I can go all in on this other thing. And where I see the next 10 years of my career, and you mentioned, you know, I have a book coming out next year. And so this is very intentionally connected to what I want to write about and give keynotes on, which is how to achieve success without burning out. And what does the new definition of success look like? Uh, there's a statistic that the top 13 wealthiest men in the world have like 8 divorces among them or something. And we'll have to fact-check that. It's something of that ratio where—

Mm-hmm.

Success for many people is very one-sided. It's defined by monetary and career success. And I have so many people that follow me because I built in public a big brand that I showcase how I was doing that while I was a single mom with 3 kids.

Mm-hmm.

And being a very present mom. And so, I want to spend my next 10 years kind of taking the kernel that was House of Wise, which was rooted in giving women permission to take up space in their life and honor the different parts of ourselves that exist within us. So, I want to help people, not just women, but I want to help specifically really ambitious working parents figure out how to not feel guilt all the time.

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, I'm like squarely in your target market here, and I'm so excited about everything you're working on right now because it is so needed. So I'm excited as you sort of spill the beans on all the things we've been working on behind the scenes, because it is going to be just absolutely amazing, game changer and life changer for so many people. But let's talk about, I mean, okay, for one, you know, Fortune 500 CMO, chief marketing officer, if you don't know that term, having to let that dream go, like there's some, some pain and some grief associated with that. But, you know, obviously, you've used your, your marketing skills, your networking, your subject matter expertise, all of your life experience, you know, has catapulted your personal brand and is also, I mean, to me from the outside, at least what you're moving toward rapidly feels like the culmination of all of these other things. Like it feels like a logical progression for me. So are you still feeling the grief over not being a Fortune 500 CMO, or does this feel like— Oh, this is awesome.

Whenever I feel a feeling like grief or sadness around letting something go, I just kind of peel back the layers and say, where, where is that actually coming from? And it's, it's driven by ego. And when I actually zoom out and say, what are my values? What is my mission? And what gives me energy, it's connecting with people, it's impacting them in a positive way, and it's helping grow brands. And if I can achieve those 3 things through this next 10 years on this creator journey, then I'm going to be so much more fulfilled than had I gone on that other trajectory. So—

Mm-hmm.

Whenever I'm coaching someone and they're chasing this big kind of like big title, big dream, et cetera, you kind of got to ask why 5 times, right? Why do you want to do that? And they're like, well, because like, you know, that comes with prestige. Well, why does prestige matter to you? And if you keep kind of peeling back—

Yeah.

And I love that when I started working with you guys, like you start with mission and values. Like why, why do I specifically want to do this? And the why is everything. And whenever somebody gets lost in this, it's like, come back to your why. Why do you care about doing this stuff? And if I can grow somebody's business while also helping them Be a more present parent, set firmer boundaries with their, you know, digital use, reconnect with their partner and schedule time for that, like, and figure out why and how to transition out of work mode into those other roles that they play. Like, that lights me up. That's what gets me excited. And so I've fully now embraced this new direction and I'm pumped for it.

Yeah. And I don't know a lot of Fortune 500 execs that get to have the agency and lifestyle architecture that you can have with the creator economy. And so I think, you know, think about the regret minimization framework and when you're, you know, in your 90s and looking back on your life and thinking about the path that you took. And I think you will look back on that with tremendous satisfaction and joy and Fulfillment as opposed to, you know, you know the saying, it's like nobody ever lays on their deathbed wishing that they had like spent more time at the office. So yeah.

And even when I led a team of 50 people and I was in the office in New York City, in the, you know, financial district, commuting from the Upper West Side with 3 kids under the age of 4, like even when I was there, work-life Imbalance is kind of how I phrase it because it's always imbalanced, but intentional imbalance, that was always a part of it. Like, I left work every day at 4, which it was so like taboo.

Wow.

But I was super communicative on why I was doing it. I managed expectations to say when I was going to be online. People understood why I was doing it because my babies went to bed at 6 and it Took me 30 minutes to get home and I'm like, I would like to have 90 minutes with my kids tonight

and

I'll be back on at 6:30. Anything you need over the next 2 hours, I'm sure it can wait. And so I just think that there's so much that I, I hope to put out into the world that can be applicable beyond just somebody that's an entrepreneur or solopreneur.

Yeah. I can't remember if you and I have talked about this, definitely not on a live format, but maybe offline. It's like you and I have. This similar thing in us where it's, it's the elevation of the other person, of our customers or those who are paying attention to us. It's like, if I can help you achieve your goals and you can help me achieve my goals, like that's what's gonna bring the most satisfaction to each of us. And like our success naturally comes from helping others and like, that's great. I'm far more excited about seeing your success than I am seeing my success. If that makes any sense whatsoever.

I will. I, there's gotta be a term for that, but for sure, whenever I've done like an executive coaching, like personal needs assessments,

yeah,

it's impact. Like I'm driven by having an impact. Like one of the reasons, one of the catalysts for me quitting that 9 to 5 was that it was a huge organization and I couldn't get anything done. There was red tape everywhere, and I'm like, I can't have an impact. I can't help anyone. I could see what I wanted to do and I couldn't get— couldn't get it done.

Yeah.

And so if I can impact and make— and I can like meet with somebody in an hour and look at their brand or look at their positioning and help them think about something differently, like, oh, that's like drugs to me.

I know. Yeah. Which is a funny thing because— yeah, okay, executive needs assessment. I like that. I feel like I went 12 rounds with myself Trying to figure out what do I want to do, and it just always kept coming back to helping other people. It's like, well, how how can I best help people? And that's how Level Up Creators is here, and that's how Amanda gets the personal brand and like product ladder suite of products and services has come to be. So I think that's really cool, and it's really special, and it's not like this is not some spoon-fed load of bullshit or anything like that. This is like a real genuine situation. So I have tremendous respect for for you and what you're doing, and like how you show up, and. I'm certain that that has, that people feel that, like that's the vibe that you put off, not pretension or better than you or more successful than you or anything like that. It's like, let me do everything that I can to bring you up here also and send you on your way as far as you wanna go. So I think that's a really—

I appreciate that.

Cool thing. Thanks, Mom. Yeah. I, I mean, you're doing it. You're, you're well on your way already. I've gone like super far off book on these questions that I wanna make sure and ask you.

Okay. We'll get back on track.

I'm gonna put us— yeah, put the train back on the track here. Okay. So real quickly, I mean, yeah, you have— your personal brand has just skyrocketed without you being, you know, a Hollywood star or mega executive. Like, you built this from nothing. So if you could share a little bit of the approach you took to growth on Twitter especially, and now you're working on LinkedIn. What's working right now and what can other people learn from what you've done?

Yeah. The irony of Twitter is that it came out of a bet. I was dating this founder guy and I would constantly just be spitting little nuggets of things and he's like, you should tweet that. And I was like, no, I'm not going to tweet that. Twitter is literally this dichotomous, echo chamber of people who just want to, you know, not listen. They just want to talk at people. He's— and he had, you know, been, been on Twitter for a little bit. He didn't have a huge following by any means, but he liked it. And he was like, I've met so many people on Twitter. And I'm like— he's like, just try 6 months, please. And I was like, fine, I'm gonna prove you wrong. I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna show you that no one will listen to me. And so, for six months, I made a commitment to myself and I honored it that I would tweet three times a day. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I just was showing up. And and here's the thing: I started showing up on Twitter when I was fifteen years into my career. And so, I I had a resume of names that people recognize. I had a lot of experience to draw from, to create content from. And I'm not saying that you have to have that much experience to be able to create a personal brand, but I will say it does make it easier to garner expertise and validity in what you're saying. So did that, and I had a very integral hockey stick moment of my journey. And I was in India for work. And I remember I tweeted something out and I went to bed. And then I woke up to this tweet had gone nuts. And I think I got around 10,000 followers from this one tweet. And the irony in this is not lost on me. So I was leading marketing at The Knot, and I was trying to, to moderate this panel, um, at this conference that was perfect for me. It was around, um, taking legacy brands into this next generation, which is literally what I was doing at The Knot.

Yeah.

And their response to me was like, you are perfect to moderate this panel, but we're looking with For someone with more social influence. And so, I tweeted out this experience and I said, since when did we change, like, experience— exchange experience for social influence? Like, I've spent the last 15 years building my career, not followers. The irony in that is not lost on me because I got all these social media followers from that tweet. People were like, what? Your content's great. They scrolled back and they're like— so I got a lot of followers. But then fast forward 6 months later and I was interviewing to be the CEO of that company that put on that conference.

Nice.

And it just shows you that when you commit to something and you authentically share your experiences, So much can happen from it, but I'll say 3 things need to happen to grow. And I'm taking what I did on Twitter and I'm literally just copying and pasting it on LinkedIn and it's working. Yeah. I think when I started on LinkedIn, I had like 8,000 followers. I think I'm at 28,000 and I started like October of last year is when I really was like, all right, I gotta do this on LinkedIn now. But number one, Quality content. You have to put out original thoughts. People now more than ever see when people are copying and pasting somebody else's thoughts. It can't be fortune cookie cutter type stuff anymore. So quality content. So that's the first C. Second C is consistency, showing up every day at the same time so people know they're going to hear from you and they're like, oh, Amanda's showing up at 8:06 every morning on LinkedIn. I expect to see her when I open my phone. Boom. The third one is community. Like, social media is about being social. If you post, and it could be the best post ever, and it can be at the same time every day, but if you don't stay and engage and then engage with other people's posts, that the first 2 you might as well not even worry about. And so those are the 3 things I focus on, and it's It's worked in both.

That's great advice, and I love the acronym. Well, alliteration rather. I think that's what it's called. Yeah, cool. Thank you for sharing that. And you know, you are so prolific on Twitter; it's kind of ridiculous. It boggles my mind a little bit. Well, as compared to most of the rest of us, you really, really are. But It's so funny. I didn't know that like the birth of your Twitter account hinged upon like a bet and a joke, you know, with—

Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. And that you, these little quips that like come from you on Twitter were already like rolling off the tongue in real life. So for those of us who maybe that doesn't come as naturally, and that feels like a really big sort of mountain to summit, what's the mindset we need to do well in social? And then how do you get from mindset to, you know, daily action on that front?

Yeah, well, I'll share with a little analogy. I hate doing this, like the talking into the camera video content, so that's why I chose LinkedIn and Twitter for my, my platforms of choice. However, I know that in order for me to grow, I need to also start expanding into video and Instagram and, and other non-just text platforms. So when something is not naturally energy-giving, it's energy-taking, you have to create a system and you have to make it mechanical. And so when I'm coaching someone who's like, I don't know what to talk about, Okay, let's go through ideation, creation, execution. I call it my ICE strategy. So ideation, let's create a system for ideation. First of all, like the exercise I most commonly use is if you were going to write a newsletter based on everything you know, give me immediately 20 subject lines of the newsletter. How I did this. Da da da da da. The day I did this. Okay, great. You're now creating content. I think when someone looks at a blank tweet and they're like, "I have to be prolific," all of a sudden everything shuts down. So remove yourself. Like remove that. Start writing different formats. Write subject lines. Write texts to a friend telling. Text to a friend telling them five things that you conquered in your career so far. Like when you remove the medium that's stressing you out, all of a sudden you realize you have so much. Like you and I, when we spoke, we had like a little conversation and you're like, how do I kind of inject my experience and my personality into? Because whenever we talk, I'm like, I just keep peeling back the layers of how like incredibly awesome in your career has been saying and like. You're so multifaceted. And it's like, oh, even just having a 1-hour conversation with someone and then taking that transcript and being like, oh yeah, those 5 stories I just shared, those are 5 stories I should turn into content. And so I would just say create a system for ideation because that truly does help remove the stress of trying to be this prolific tweeter.

Thank you. Those are great tips and very practical too. So I appreciate that for sure. I feel like I love people coming away from listening to this show with some action steps and clarity as opposed to, well, in theory you can do this and you, you know, good luck following in my footsteps. But yeah, thank you.

I'm not a theoretical person. I'm a very tactical person. I'm like, here are 4 steps to do this thing.

Yes, which makes sense as a productivity expert and helping parents and extremely busy people navigate their lives and achieve their goals. So we appreciate that. It's a good, it's a good fit, strong fit for you for sure. Um, okay. So I want to start, I want to speak for a couple of minutes about how you initially thought about the monetization of your personal brand and social media following. Like, how did you make the leap from Oh, I'm kind of like onto something here to course community and now beyond that.

I viewed it as like I was walking through a buffet line. I was like, I'll do a little bit of this, a little bit of this. There was not really rhyme or reason. In hindsight, I could gladly tell you I had this like beautiful plan, but I'm going to be real and honest. It started with a newsletter. And I'll tell you why I started with a newsletter. I wanted to write a book. The book was really kind of my north star of this next season of my life. Hmm. I wanted to see if I could get an agent, if I could get a book deal, what that looked like. And the newsletter to me was the proof that if I could get people to read 800 words a week, then maybe I could have the confidence Mm-hmm. When I started the newsletter and I got the feedback that I did, I think I was looking for validation that I should write a book. And I really didn't know what the book was going to be about. And in fact, my proposal is very different than the book I actually ended up writing. But I started with the newsletter and I'm like, okay, well, I have this newsletter. How can you monetize it? Okay, people can sponsor it. I can do collaborations. So that was kind of monetization number one. Then I started, like I always do, building in public and sharing how I'm growing the newsletter, thinking about becoming a creator. And people are like, hey, can I meet with you? Can I pick your brain? And I'm like, well, a lot of people want to pick my brain about how I'm approaching being a content creator, let's bring everybody together and do this as a community. And this is a very different type of community than Level Up or Jay Clouse or anyone who's like, I'm an expert in this. I was like, hey guys, I'm with you. We're going to do this together. And I'm going to share with you all my experiments, what I'm learning, how I'm doing it. And it was way more of an accountability group with lessons. And, and obviously I have 20 years of marketing experience, so I know how to think through nurture, abandonment, like things like that. But I didn't have the tech, tech savvy, like all— there's a lot of things that I'm used to having a team for, and now I'm a solopreneur. So we did that all together. So community was the next piece. And then I'm going along the buffet and I was like, well, I think I should have a course. And I just took everything that I was teaching my community, packaged it up, recorded it, and made that the Life's a Game Masterclass. So in hindsight, it feels like it's way more strategic than I think it actually was.

Well, you got to be like patting yourself on the back for that though, because usually this is a much more haphazard kind of ad hoc. The way the wind is blowing kind of situation. Um, but obviously you have a load of business experience, and so I'm sure you did approach it with intention, whether that was at the forefront of your mind or not. So,

yeah, I mean, I had a brand strategy and like, I work through a brand pyramid whenever I'm working on something. So I think that putting on a CMO hat, I knew exactly how to position the brand. But I quickly found myself realizing the path to 5 figures seemed very simple. Got to $10K within the first 45 days, $10K MRR. $10K to $50K is a way different beast. That is so much more segmentation. targeting, lead magnets, like real strategy. And so I literally, I remember before I even met you, I was like, I just need to like level everything up. And then I was like, oh, Level Up Creators. That makes sense.

That was my next question of like, what was your thought process in going from, okay, I mean, getting to $10K a month on your own, that's a huge deal. That's a really, really big deal and certainly worth that like pause and celebration. And yes, $10K to $50K is, that is a big jump. That is a, that is a big, big level up, right? Um, that's, that's a game changer, life changer kind of situation for sure. Um, and yet very achievable based on the foundation that you've built. So what were the more specifically major pain points you were feeling that let you know that you needed outside help? Like what were the biggest hurdles that you were like, I have no idea how I'm gonna do this?

Yeah. So the first was an energy audit and time audit. So I have this community and I know when we sat down the first time you were like, wait, you respond to like 20 Slack messages a day with thoughtful responses and people are paying like $80 a month for that? The amount I think that there was a pricing audit that needed to happen in kind of coordination with my time expenditure.

Mm-hmm.

Because I think when you're starting out, we all have, and women specifically, I see this a lot more when I'm coaching women founders and creators, but we have this need to prove ourselves before we ask for more money. Without taking into consideration the years of proof you've put into your career. And so I'm like, well, I'm, I'm new to this creator thing. I've gotta keep my prices super low. And I was putting in so much time and energy and the numbers were not adding up. So I think I hit my ceiling of my, what I called my scaling ceiling. Like I could only scale so much more.

Hmm.

So that was kind of the first red flag for me to say, I need somebody to kind of come in and say, how could I do this differently? Because I see other people doing it differently. And here I am like spread very thin trying to figure out how to answer everybody's Slacks, you know, I would literally rewrite people's welcome emails. Like, I was in it.

Yeah.

And I love doing that, and I want that to still be a part of it, but we need to now separate that into different tiers that feel right.

Yeah.

And then the, the packaging of it. I, like a good marketer, do lots of surveys of my audience and of my community. And I realized that I was hitting a scaling ceiling with my brand. Only people who knew me, followed me, trusted me were coming in because they're like, I didn't really know what Office Hours was about, but I dig you. I think you show up on Twitter and you say some kind of smart things. So I figured I'd give it a shot. I'm like, well, great. I have a positioning And a value prop problem. And I think you really helped me to understand there was a huge opportunity to define my niche even more. And the cool thing is going through this process, I had this like, oh crap moment, to be very frank, where I was like, crap, we have to redo everything that I've ever done. I'm now Taking this kind of super ambiguous thing called Office Hours, and I'm now saying I'm helping stressed-out working parents achieve balance, and specifically a solopreneur parent, helping them level up their business while not burning out and losing the rest of their life. And through that process, we're like, oh, actually there's just tweaks And it's the wrapper that needs to change and the pricing and things like that. So I needed something that could scale beyond— somebody didn't know who Amanda Goetz was on Twitter. They would come in, they'd see a very compelling value prop. They'd see reasons to believe they could— I could deliver on that value prop, and they could see the transformations they would get by joining. That was not apparent.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's very self-aware of you and it's more of like a value audit. I mean, my gosh, if you're giving, you're giving one-on-one advice, you know, 20 times a day for people who are paying very little for your 20 years of experience. I mean, there's a major gap there between value received and money paid. And that's like the gap that we're seeking to bridge while, like you're saying, bring a tremendous amount of clarity on what the value proposition is, what the transformation is, what the value outcomes results, like how your life is going to be different after you work with Amanda Goetz kind of a situation. And so yeah, you're right. It's really just putting a little color and context into what you're already doing and injecting more certainty for your customer, right? And making your life more reasonable. It's like you've got to, to borrow a Silicon Valley phrase that I hate, eat your own dog food. Like you've got to practice what you preach.

I just coached somebody yesterday. Literally, she was talking through her how she makes money, and I'm like, well, if you doubled that's really low. If you doubled that, you'd hit your goal that you're trying to get, which is two clients instead of you trying to get ten clients. And I'm like, oh, right, like smaller high ticket like that. And I know that. I mean, I heard you speak at the ConvertKit conference. It's like. That high-ticket group coaching, the smaller size, like, it's a great place to be because then you can really be hands-on with people and give them more one-on-one tailored advice, which I love. Like, I don't love to be this person up on the stage just shouting at people. I want to be in it with you, helping you figure it out.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, okay, okay, I gotta eat my own dog food. I do have a new dog, which hilariously I had to move 1,000 pee pads behind me. So for anybody watching, I'm literally in it with the dog food smell.

Oh, that is a whole other situation. Literally. Dog, dog issues, dog stuff. I completely lost my train of thought. Um, okay, so, oh, group coaching. Yes, there is so much value in group coaching. It is fascinating. There's tremendous value in one-on-one coaching, but group coaching has this additional element where you're getting one-on-one help but in this group setting. So not only are you getting expert advice from the coach but from your peers as well, who are all showing up to that call with different lived experiences and contributions to make that are valuable. And in communities like Amanda's and in like Creator School, we are curating who is in these calls, right? And so, um, we know what the quality is going to be of like peer-level advice. And, um, so there's a different vibe between one-on-one and small group coaching, but there's that just extra really special element of community, new relationships, peer advice, and you're hearing one-on-one coaching for other, other issues that will undoubtedly help you. So, uh, I think there's just so much value in that. It's a very interesting model. I'm really. I'm long on small group coaching for sure for all of our clients. I think it's a really important thing to do, and not just because it's a good deal for you, the creator, but because of all the aforementioned reasons. Like, it is a total boon for participants.

Look, it's actually— yes, it's good for the creator, but like, I see why so many people— it's— you have to actually know your stuff, and you have to be prepared to teach like It's really easy to go make a deck, film a course, and then be like, okay, don't ask me any questions. Right. You are putting your money where your mouth is and saying, no, I can help you. Let's do this together. And so I think people who take on group coaching, it's a whole other level of accountability, which I crave, like keep me honest. That's why I still have a fractional CMO job, partly because like money, but partly because like if I can grow businesses, like I can, I know I can still do this for other people. It's like a kind of imposter syndrome check for me.

Yeah, it's like we're practicing like, uh, you know, a, uh, somebody that works at like a teaching hospital or something like that, like the surgical People who are teaching that are also practicing it with the residents and patients and everything like that. That was a terrible analogy, and I don't know medical terminology, but if you're doing what you're teaching, you're a way better teacher. That's what I meant to say.

The celebrity wedding planner I worked with, he had a TV show, like so many different things going on in his life, and he still planned weddings. Wow. He didn't need to. He didn't need the money.

Yeah.

But he still did. So it was Pretty— I'm like, okay, this is the thing.

There's something to it. Yep. I know we are— question for you. Knowing what you know now, what do you wish someone a couple of years ahead of you on their creator journey had shared with you when you first started?

Slow down in the beginning. Hmm. When you start your creator journey, I think that there's this rush of adrenaline to get— just put something out there so you can start making money. It's like, well, here's a course, here's a template, here's this. If I would have slowed down and operated out of a place of abundance, not fear, in the beginning, I would have definitely Saved time in the long run. Like, there were different things that— different projects I took on in the beginning that were so not fully in line with this, like, mission and my values that I had to unravel throughout this experience. And so slow down in the beginning and get very clear on why you're doing this and the mission behind it. So. That, that's, that would be my advice.

I love that. That's awesome. All right. Anything else like parting shot you want to share and where can listeners find you online?

Parting shot. Um, well, I just want to shout out like you and the Level Up team. Like truly, this is not paid. Um, this is truly like me just saying these last 2 months have really reshaped my business in a way that like is going to fundamentally change my life, my kids' lives. Like when you work with people who have done this before, have proven track records, like it is crazy what having that outside opinion and validation moment has on you. So thank you for everything. And then they can— anybody can find me at amandagetz.com to Sign up for the newsletter, um, and watch us on Twitter and LinkedIn every Tuesday morning. We're sharing this 6-month journey of every step we're taking to get us to $50K by the end of the year.

Yeah. Thank you so much. That was very kind. Thank you for the interview as well. And somebody told me yesterday we should call it the Amanda Squared Show.

So I guess for your marketing consideration.

Yes. All right. Well, thanks again, Amanda. And, uh, thank you listeners. We know that time is precious and we appreciate you sharing yours with us. And again, we help creators like you at levelupcreatorschool.com, where our team becomes your full stack team of advisors and also includes no fluff creator courses, a vibrant creator community, and more all in a subscription. See the show notes for more information and a suite of high value free resources and all of Amanda's links as well. We'll see you next time on the Level Up Creators Podcast. Bye.