Creator Interviews: Michelle Dew

Hello, you're listening to the Level Up Creators Podcast. Amanda Northcutt here, founder and CEO. We help digital creators like you turn their personal brands into recurring revenue, and we're so glad you're here. Welcome. My guest today is Michelle Du, founder of Cultivate Your Space, an interior design firm based in Austin, Texas. Michelle serves clients in Austin locally and all over the world, both virtually and in person. And full disclosure here, folks, Michelle and I go way back. We're talking probably 15, 16 years. I'm not even sure.

Yeah, I think so.

Michelle has Yeah. Michelle has an incredible and vulnerable story marked by trauma that catalyzed a major career change to the creator economy years ago. So today Michelle is going to kind of peel back the curtain on her unique path to finding her passion, a profession that helps her heal as it helps others quite literally cultivate the physical spaces that we occupy such that they represent us. They're intentional and they mean something. And Michelle has done a number on my house. She also designed my beautiful Zoom background, which is real. Um, and just all credit to her. We enjoy our home so very much. Welcome, Michelle.

Thanks for having me, Amanda. Good to catch up.

Yes, indeed. Um, I'm so glad to have this conversation with you. Like, what an honor and an absolute privilege to be able to share your story. And, uh, just thank you for being willing to share, uh, what you have to say with, with creators and solopreneurs today. So let's dive in. Um, kicking off here, could we start with you sharing a little bit more about yourself, your background, and again, that catalyst for you moving from your day job, uh, to lifestyle? to work as a founder creator?

Yeah, for sure. So I actually started my career in nonprofit youth work, have taken quite the journey to get here where I am today. So spent the first 4 or 5 years out of school, graduated from Texas A&M. I think that's originally how Amanda and I know each other years back. But I was managing, I actually started a program for youth aging out of the foster care system and was kind of on the trajectory to take that over and launch it into its separate, its own nonprofit, separate from the CASA program, if you're familiar with that, Court Appointed Special Advocates. And things were going well in my career. It was taxing. It was hard work. It was difficult reading child abuse stories every day. But I knew what I was doing in the world was really making an impact. I was up against systems and family dynamics and all of these difficult things. But I really did feel like my daily job was You know, doing something. And it was during that time that I took a vacation, as we tend to do when we get burnt out at work. And I took a 7-day cruise with a group of 5 girlfriends. And it was actually on that cruise, on that trip, that kind of my— not kind of, my entire world turned upside down. The 3rd day of our cruise, we were landed in Jamaica, and I was actually assaulted by 2 men on the ship. And from that point on, everything in my life that I knew before was flipped upside down, turned around. And as anyone with trauma or health issues or any kind of difficulty in life knows, it changes your perspective about your entire world and your entire life and what you're allowing in and what you're putting out. And so I came home from that trip and honestly was not able to take care of anybody else. I could no longer go to an office and read child abuse stories. I couldn't hear other people's stories of trauma. I couldn't even manage people. I couldn't manage myself. I was diagnosed with PTSD, clinical PTSD. And I really, through a lot of privilege, I will firsthand admit I had a lot of privilege with coming from a family that was able to financially support me and some savings and Um, an amazing support team of family and friends, I was able to take a year just to very, very intentionally heal. Um, and I know so many people, most people do not have that ability. Um, but I left my job. I was going to therapy twice a week. I was going to the mountains to see beauty. I mean, I went once to see beauty. I went and stayed with Amanda and her family in Colorado because I just knew I needed to see I don't know. I think that the world goes on, that there's more beauty in life than my apartment. And I went to the beach during that time. I started doing yoga, meditation. I detoxed my beauty products and my food. I went to freaking prophecy nights. Like literally anything that someone told me that like, hey, this might be helpful in your healing journey. I was like a sponge. I was like, I will do it. And everything I did that year, Amanda, was intentional. There was nothing that came into my life that year that was like, oh, whoops, that happened. It was like, those people are no longer allowed to have a voice in my life, or these people aren't allowed to talk to me about certain things, or I'm not going there because they're going to have that conversation. Or, um, it was really all about healing. Um, I did CrossFit in like a very private group of women where we literally just beat the crap out of stuff because I had so much anger built up. Um, I did craniosacral therapy, like literally any kind of healing thing you could do. Mm-hmm. And it was during this season that I kind of started to do some interior design for family and friends, honestly, as a little bit of therapy and a way to bring in some kind of income. I was also working 10 hours a week at, as like a secretary for a business, and it was way below my pay grade, but it was literally all I could handle that year. Um, and during that time I was trying to figure out like, what, what's next for me? Can, am I capable of going back to nonprofit work at some point? Or do I need to completely step away? Am I going to go back to school? And it was— I've always enjoyed interior design. I've always been that kid that like sponge painted her walls in the '90s and rearranged my furniture without my mom knowing. And, you know, would get HGTV magazines on the plane in college. When I babysat, I'd like organize the pantry. Like, I don't know who does that, but I've always had a knack for it. But it always felt like very shallow work. Like, I was like, my worst nightmare Sounds like helping white women in their 50s pick out throw pillows. That sounds like an actual nightmare. And I was like, so if that's what interior design is, I can't do that. I'm meant to help people, help people heal, do these like bigger things in the world. And it really is like the closest thing to a calling I've ever had in my life where that year when I was going through a season of healing, kind of towards the end of the year when I had Kind of gotten a little more grasp on life again, I had this realization that I could help other people heal in their homes, that I could help people set their homes up in intentional ways, specifically with strategy to give them what they need internally. So it was really in that— it really was like this calling moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I can do both. It doesn't have to be shallow design. It doesn't have to be about throw pillow. And, and, you know, and I know we'll get more into this throughout the conversation, but Interior design to me is an avenue in which I help people heal. It's one element of people's healing journey. And I think it matters. I mean, I'm sure you can hear it in my voice. I think our space, our physical spaces impact our mental and emotional and physical health so, so, so much more than we're aware.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Michelle. I mean, just full stop. And as having been one of the many beneficiaries of your skills and the degree of intention with which you approach projects and how each of your projects is so uniquely designed based on the personality of your client and the needs of their family, if it's, you know, a family who's brought you on. And so, that aside, we'll come back to that. But thank you so much for sharing that part of your story. I mean, that's a huge inflection point in your, in your life and an absolutely, obviously, defining moment. Yeah. When that kind of thing happens, I mean, yeah, it just turns your whole entire worldview upside down and question your self-worth and all those kinds of things that go along with that type of egregious abuse. And so that all makes sense, like the trickle-down effects of that, you know, kind of makes sense to me. But how many years ago was that? Let's put a timeline on this for everybody listening.

So it was 10 years ago this May. This May, it'll be 10 years.

Holy moly. How did that happen? 10 years. I know. I know.

10 years. A decade.

Oh, okay. So reflecting now, I know as you do like on the daily, I mean, you probably wouldn't be in this place, or do you think you would've ended up here anyway? Or where would your life be?

I don't think so. I really don't think without that moment that I would be where I am. I think, I think I'd probably be in the nonprofit sector, or maybe I would have left by now and gone into corporate, or I don't know that I could have survived in nonprofit world financially. But, um, I don't think, you know, I had a friend recently ask me, you know, she told me a really difficult story about her daughter, what her daughter's going through. And she was like, Michelle, I've just noticed that when I share something really heavy with you, Mm-hmm. that there's not this alarm. Like, I feel like a lot of friends that I tell something like this to, there's a lot of alarm and anxiety and they kind of want to fix it. And she was like, why do you think you— she's like, I just don't get that sense from you that you're just kind of like with me in it for a minute. And I'm like, I honestly— and that was such a— first of all, that was such a high compliment and an honor to hear. But what I told her is I was like, I think because I've been there, That's the only reason I can sit with people in it, in any kind of trauma and difficulty today is because I've been there and I came out and I'm okay. And Amanda, you know, just as well as I do, there was a year or two there where I didn't know if I was going to be okay. I didn't know. I didn't think, oh, what if this becomes a business? I was like, I was like, am I going to be in treatment? Like, am I gonna—

Right.

My biggest fear was like being in a psychiatric ward. That was my biggest concern that year. Like, am I gonna physically make it out of this? And so I feel like now I have capacity to hope for others because I've seen it in my own life. I've seen my own life. I've seen healing in my own life. And so I have hope and belief for others for healing in all sorts of situations. And so I think it's just that that gives me the ability to, again, we're talking about interior design, but we're not like, we're talking about people's stories and life and difficulty. And because of my story, so many of my clients. Have something, some kind of trauma. Not not the same thing, but you know I've had because they feel safe. It's like they hear my story and they're like, okay, she's not just going to tell me to go out and spend forty thousand dollars on a bunch of like IKEA furniture I don't need. Not IKEA, you know whatever furniture I don't need. She's gonna she's a deep person who knows that these decisions matter and impact people and. And it does. It all, it all matters. So yeah, I don't, I do not think that I'd be in the same place that I am today without that happening.

Yeah. I mean, I hate that that's, that was the, the catalyst for this journey and I wish it was different. And I also super appreciate, one, your vulnerability about it, and two, how you are taking your experience to identify with people that you can help. And like your, your business is so much, like you just said, so much more holistic than Um, just your sort of generic interior designer kind of a situation. And that's very important because that's a highly sat— when you're talking about specifically in business terms, interior decorating and design is very, very saturated. You can find an interior designer, uh, anywhere. Like, oh my gosh. But you have such a specific POV and you have gone so narrow and deep within that niche. People, you know, do raise their hands and they self-select and like, Yeah. Oh, that's the person for me. She gets it. And so again, I hate that this is where that your story started where it did, but that you've turned it into something, you know, so beautiful and something that helps other people in such a very deep level. And man, your services have like shelf life, right? Literally. Yeah. Um, you know, every day, like my home is still by and large set up the way that you set it up 6 years ago. And it is such a calming, clean, beautiful, modern space that's an absolute extension of our family and kind of like our ethos, our vibe, our MO, whatever you want to call it. And it's just so much more meaningful. Like you actually took the time to get to know us.

Yeah.

Well, obviously we'd known each other for a long time, but like you took that into account and that was reflected through every very intentional decision and piece that you selected for us. Okay, let's get into kind of like nuts and bolts. And I also want to point out real quick that like one of the frameworks that we teach for creators who are not sure which digital products to create, for instance, or what services put together, to put together, for instance. And I think about, I describe a 3-circle Venn diagram. And you're looking for the center of this Venn diagram. And the 3 circles are named like your passion, area of expertise, and what people will pay for, right? The middle of that circle for you is Cultivate Your Space. I mean, even down to the name. Um, I remember having discussions with you about that, like what I should call my business. And I can't remember the exact conversations that we had, but I was like, that's it. It's just Cultivate Your Space. Like the domain is available. That's perfect. It describes what, what it is and what you do.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, it's, it's stuck. So, okay. Let's talk about kind of the nuts and bolts of your business. Cause I feel like you've kind of like always been ahead of the curve. I mean, you are 8 years into this. Is that right?

Yeah, 7, 7, 8. It depends on when you define— when I— when, when we call it a real business. Yeah.

Uh, I would say from day one, from when you made the decision, is what I would say. Uh, and I want to point that out specifically because I talk to so many, um, creators and women and solopreneurs in particular, but women— let's talk about women for a second— who Don't take their business seriously, and therefore others don't take their business seriously because it's like, oh, it's just a side hustle, or oh, I still have kids at home. Like this isn't even my full-time thing. And I'm like, no bullshit.

Like claim it.

You are being intentional. You are doing your thing. That's right. Own it, and and don't just like give away your your power and your prowess by saying like that it's not real. So I would just say from day one. Okay. So for those who are kind of on the fence about like starting a creator business, whether that's a side hustle or quitting their full-time job and making a transition, how'd you get started? I mean, like. You had to spin up a website, you had to get clients. Like, tell us how you got going.

Yeah. So I had one false start where I actually think it was the year after the cruise. I, it was called Known Designs, like K-N-O-W-N. That was my first like prototype of this business. And I was kind of doing it for friends. Um, and it just kind of flopped. I just, I wasn't ready. I think I just wasn't ready. So 2 years later is when I launched Cultivate Your Space. And at that point things had shifted and I was ready. And I think that's worth knowing, just like where you're at in the journey. But how I got started was, like I said, I was, it was kind of always a skill, like a knack I always had. Like, um, in college my dorm was decorated cuter than everyone else's and people would just be like, you, you have an eye for this. Will you come help me? And I'd be like, sure. So first of all, I did a lot of things for free. I did, and I'm not saying do things for free or be cheap or don't know your worth, but here's the deal. At the beginning you have no experience. Yeah. Like, do what you have to do to climb the ladder, you know? So I, um, just got experience anywhere I could. I did some staging. I did some staging for friends, um, where they were selling their houses and they were like, you have an eye for this. Will you just come help us rearrange what we have, take things off the walls, kind of help us get creative? Amanda, I think you and Travis were some of those people before y'all took off.

Yeah. You staged our house. Yeah. You staged our house in 2016. Granted, our house was really cool, but yeah, you put it like way over the top. It sold in 24 hours.

I forgot about that. Yes. So fun. I know.

Yeah, that was like you just put the cherry on top of everything that we had done. That was kind of the ultimate culmination of that. But yes, it was on point. Your design has been on point since day one.

Thanks, friend. Yeah. So I mean, I did a lot of stuff for friends and family at low ticket offer or free and kind of built up somewhat of a portfolio. And then I'll tell you the number one thing that I think I did that Really launched things into orbit was I hosted these workshops. I don't know if you remember this, but I— it was almost like a Tupperware party, but it was just for my business. So I would tell a friend like, hey, I have this workshop series idea. It's called Cultivate Your Space. I'll tell you, like, I had this kind of— and I had an ebook from day one. I had an ebook that was like a couple pages document. I had a website which was like Squarespace, super basic. Didn't pay anybody to do anything, including your husband, who I did not pay. I probably owe him at this point. But that— I think we're good. That website got me through like 6 years of my business. The website that I built on your couch, like it was Squarespace. It was a plugin. I did my own logo in Canva. Everything was super like bootstraps, but I had an ebook from day one because you probably, someone told me, probably you, I needed a way to capture emails from day one. And it was just my philosophy. It was just everything I learned that year in healing of like, here's my 4-step process to cultivating a space. It's like, one, let things go. 2, organize the things that you have. 3, bring in intentional items. And 4, kind of anoint and like enjoy and fill your space with emotion and vibe and all of that. So I had these workshops where I would ask a friend, I'd be like, Amanda, do you have 5 to 10 friends you want to bring over for like a wine and cheese night? And then I would host this little workshop and I did some at my brother's therapy office and he invited all of his, anyone in the community. And I gained a lot of emails through that. And I gained over the, you know, 7 years I've gained clients from that list as well. And there was this little part, we were in like a mid-sized town, which was more like a tiny town based on how everybody knew everyone. And things kind of like— viral is way too generous of a word, but it kind of went viral in our little community of like, I'm cleaning out my closet. I was so inspired by Michelle at Cultivate Your Space. She had a workshop last night. And then someone else would be like, oh my gosh, I need to clean out my closet. What do you know? So at the beginning, I was doing a lot more like decluttering, organizing as well, which that's shifted in my business too. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of how I got started. Free, cheap workshops, and the workshops were free as well. So yeah.

Yeah, I want to point something out real quick. Like, you hustled your ass off for a long time. Like, you, you picked a lane, you stuck with it, you were on brand, you were on message, you had a 4-step process, which is so important. It's like your work takes people from this state to this state using this process. And that is so compelling. Just our brains are just wired for that to be, oh my God, she has her own process and it's like proprietary and special and, you know, kind of just for me sort of a situation. That's how our brains are wired to like view that stuff. And so, but you have been consistent over a long period of time and you've worked your ass off. And so I think like people don't get to where you are at this point with like a full stack of services and productized services. I don't know if you would describe some of the stuff that you do as productized, but I definitely would. Um, you work remotely, you travel, uh, you've, you've got a very extensive, you know, book of business and then social proof for what you've done. Um, so I wanna be clear about that too. Like nothing happens overnight and you hustled. Yeah. Hustled, hustled. You did whatever it took.

I did. And I will say too, like the first 2 years of my business, I worked 3 part-time jobs in the midst of building it. This was not overnight. is like a joke. Like the word overnight, I'm like, yeah, right. Yeah.

There's no such thing.

No. I mean, I lived way below my— below a standard of living. I remember the first year of my business, I told my sister-in-law that on my taxes, I qualified below the poverty line. So, but I'm like, and it's not like I'm a millionaire now, but I'm like, it's, I mean, it's helpful to even hear your reflection of that, Amanda, of like, I did, I hauled ass, I hustled, and like, I did not get here overnight. And And as a business owner and a creator, sometimes it feels like, dear Lord, does this ever let up? And I think the answer's no. I don't think it does. But you can have days or weeks right now where it's like, oh my gosh, I just feel like I'm trudging through the mud. But then you're right. You look back 7 years later and you're like, okay, I built a platform from nothing. I built a website from nothing. I built a clientele from nothing. I built a product line from nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot.

Yes, you did. Yeah. I love that. It's like, it doesn't necessarily get easier, but you get better.

Oh yeah.

Right.

That's good.

You're able to sort of like ride the wave. Travis totally said that to Kyle yesterday because he started track season and he's like running distance and track for the first time and he's growing like a weed and his body hurts so bad.

Oh, I'm sure. Oh my gosh.

Um, yeah, Travis is just like, yep, suck it up. Not going to get better or not going to get easier, but you're going to get better. So I think that's, that could apply, that applies across the board, um, especially For like single-person businesses.

Absolutely.

Um, okay, so let's talk about COVID a little bit because you were doing like in-person only stuff up until 2020. Is that— am I remembering that right?

No, you're 100% right.

All right, so how did you pivot and what ended up happening?

Oh my gosh, I mean, I pivoted like the rest of the world because I had to, right? Like there was no choice. It was either the business goes under or you pivot. So We were in lockdown. I was in Texas, so our lockdown was about 6 hours. 6 hours? No, it was like 6 weeks. Literally, it was 6 weeks. It was not long at all. But during that time, I was like, I can't get in people's houses. My entire business is being in people's homes. Everything I did was in person. I didn't do anything virtual. No consults, no, not even calls. I think I would do inquiries in person. Like, um, and during that time I made, I did an offer. I think it was like $55, maybe my offer. I can't remember how much it was. It was dirt cheap, maybe $75. Um, and it was a virtual design and it was pretty basic, but it was like, um, WeHop. I think it, I don't even know if I had a consult with them. I can't remember at this point, but it was like,

Mm-hmm.

I have this many spots available and, um, You send me photos and measurements of your room and I'll do a digital board and I'll tell you exactly what to buy and how to buy it and I'll give you a floor plan. And I think that's when we did your bookshelves. Is that right? Because you were like, oh gosh, we did the background, the whole

office. Yeah, yeah, because this was like our kind of just catch-all junk room and now it's like a beautiful office.

Yeah, so we just did everything virtual and I would tell you exactly what to buy and you would click and shop and buy it and everybody was at home.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody needed a background. Everybody was saving money cuz they weren't going on vacation, they weren't eating out. They were like looking at their 4 walls and thinking, oh my gosh, we have to do something. This place is hideous. And we can't say we don't have time to paint a wall or we don't have time to build a shelf. Like we just have to do it. Right. You know? So I really, I mean, I freaking capitalized on it is what I did. My business grew more during COVID than any other time. Seriously. And that's like what skyrocketed, skyrocketed my business. It was so freaking good for my business. I think I sold 75 of those during lockdown, like 75 of those rooms. And then I also created an e-course during that time. So I found one girl in town who was quarantining and I was quarantining and she was like, we were the only people that we were seeing. She did it for so cheap because she was a videographer and she had no work either. And she was like, honestly, I'm not doing anything else. This is like good for me to like be producing something, you know? And she—

Yeah.

I think, I think it was like $800 to record this e-course. It was ridiculous. And she came over and I just did like a tutorial, like, okay, so now I've told you what to do in your house, but you don't know how to paint a wall. You don't know how to hang peel-and-stick wallpaper. You don't know how to hang a light fixture. You don't know how to hang curtains, but you're stuck in your house and you can't have a contractor come do it for you. So guess what? You got to figure it out. So I sold the e-course for $75. And I did this big release where I reached out to, I think, 30 influencers or micro, mainly micro influencers that I had some sort of relationship with. So maybe like one person removed, but I gave them one free entry and one free entry to give away. And then we did a big launch day and on the day they said like, I have one free e-course to give you. You're in your home and you need to know how to decorate your house and, you know, enter my giveaway. And I think I made like $3,000 that day on launch day, which at the time was like 2 months' salary. So it did great and it hasn't sold since. It hasn't sold at all since COVID I think I've sold like 3, but it served its purpose. It did its job. And my entire business is now virtual. I'll do in person, but I would much rather do virtual because it's So much more efficient and makes more sense and cuts costs and conserves my energy and all of that. So really my whole business changed during COVID for sure.

Yeah. You've been able to pivot so interestingly. And like, you know, we are seeing a lot of kind of reversion to the mean. I feel like now that we're past the pandemic and I think everyone kind of thought a lot of the world would change. And I'm, what I'm seeing on a macro scale is like a sliding back, but you have continued. Forward, which I think is awesome. And yeah, you productize your design services, which is so cool and so crazy. And I've actually cited like you as an early adopter example of that many, many times in conversations with other people as well. And as someone who actually experienced that process, my God, it was so easy and I could not believe the design that you came up with from the information you had. I mean, literally, I think it was like pictures. Give me a video, like walkthrough and take measurements.

Yeah.

And then you were like, here you go. So, and then how well it turned out. Easy to implement.

Like it turned out great. Like no one would know, like, oh, she never came to your house. Like,

right.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. And it was way more like cost effective. And, um, I feel like the result was not, uh, lacking at all. So, um, you've, you know, productized something in a, in the virtual world that has been geographically bound.

Yeah.

For as long as interior design has been a thing, right?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I have clients that are like, are you sure? Do you feel confident? Like they'll, you know, if I'm in Austin and they'll be like, I'm in Dallas, I could pay you. 'Cause I charge more now to come in person 'cause it's way more effort. And someone in Dallas will be like, are you sure you can do it virtually? Like, do you feel comfortable or should I pay you to come out here? And I'm like, I've done 8— over 800 rooms at this point. They're all squares. Like, it's not— we're not— I'm not like— I don't like need to go to the moon to see what it looks like, you know? Like, this isn't— it's, it's not rocket science. Like, a 7-foot couch fits in a 12 by 12 room the same way it does in the past 800 designs I've done. Like, so I would say too, like, I don't know that I would trust somebody doing virtual design off the bat, but it's like, I've worked to get here. I've, I've been in thousands of homes and, and set up spaces. And I know how an 8 by 10 rug fits under a king-size bed. I know I can kind of spatially see it. Like, there, of course, there are situations where I'm like, uh, this is tricky. I'd write— I'd like to like feel the flow. But, um, yeah, I've, I've worked to get to that for sure.

Yeah, definitely. My gosh, you've got so much experience. And I'm remembering now, like, oh, I gave Your design services as a housewarming gift to a very close girlfriend of mine a couple years ago, and she has since implemented like your full design. And we just spent spring break with her actually out in Bentonville, and it looks phenomenal. And so you totally nailed the space, every single item within it. So yes, definitely, it's proof point after proof point that like you've got the drill down. So cool. Okay, let's talk about your newsletter. You have been sending out an email newsletter for a long. time. And right before we spoke, I was on a call inside Level Up Creator School, um, with a couple of our, our students in there who are creators. And they were talking about like the intimidation level of sending, committing to send out a regular newsletter. So how have you been so consistent with that? Where do you get fresh ideas for that? And then like, how do you leverage your newsletter to drive sales for your business?

Yeah. So I have a couple of tricks. So I am not the most consistent person. Like Amanda Northcutt, you are the most loyal, consistent, driven person I know. I'm driven in spurts, like, like an entrepreneur. So I am like not the— I, yeah, I'm not super consistent. So I've had to create guardrails for myself. So one of those is I have a VA, a virtual assistant, and she basically does the grunt work. And then I do the piece that's fluffy and feely and that feels like me. I've had copywriters before and it didn't feel like me. It just didn't. I hired somebody to write my newsletter for a bit and I was like, this isn't, it's not working. It's not me. I've had assistants who had tried to write my newsletter. It wasn't me. It just didn't work. And I think for some businesses and brands, it totally can and could, but my business is me. It's such, I mean, as you can tell, it's such a personal story. So what I've done is set up guardrails. So my virtual assistant creates the email setup, she sends me the draft, and then I go in and change absolutely everything. What? But she'll send it to me like Wednesday and be like, hey, just need you to read over this and check it. It's going out Friday. And then there's an urgency and a timeline. I'm not gonna not do it because No one will notice. It's like, well, I'm not gonna have my assistant do all this work and then not check it. So what it is, is like she basically creates the container and the format. She puts the photos. I've already come up with the concept and the idea, but she'll write something and then I'll go in and basically I'm writing like 2 paragraphs on a specific topic. The other thing I do that's kind of guardrails for me is I sit down at the end of the month and look at the next month's content. And I, I have like a very systemized template for my content. So, uh, the first post of the month on Instagram is a before and after. The second post is a story about a room. The third post is a story about a client. The fourth post is a leader thought, like thought leadership kind of thing. Uh, the fifth post is a mental health thing. And then I have 2 emails a month, 2 blog posts a month. And in those 2 emails a month, I just like bullet, like this one's gonna be about how to choose a paint color. This one's gonna be about refresh for spring. So when I sit down to write the email about refresh for spring, I'm not like, shit, what should I write about? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what to say. No, I have like a thought bank of topics. And I even, I also keep a note on my phone just on notes where it's just like content ideas. So if I'm walking Lady Bird Lake here in Austin and I'm like, gosh, The seasons are changing and I feel like something in my spirit shifts with the seasons changing. And like, gosh, sometimes I feel that when I like need to change a rug, I just like need change. I like sense it, you know? And I just like write something down about that in my Notes app on my phone. And then next month when I sit down and I'm like, crap, what am I gonna write about content this month? I just pull that up and I'm like, oh, I already had this thought. I can kind of flesh that out. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I'd say just guardrails. Like not everybody can be as disciplined and consistent to send an email every Friday or do whatever. So like set yourself up for success. You don't have to be that person, but like do what you have to do. Schedule a year's worth of content. Like do whatever you have to do to like be consistent and repurpose content. Oh my gosh. Repurpose content. I do that too.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, you do that really, really well. And you have such a, such a depth and breadth of content at this point cuz you've been so consistent over the years. But I mean, yeah, I'm hearing you talk a lot about like systems and templates. Yes.

Amen.

And that is key to efficiency and, and consistency. Um, and like, you know, being a content creator and, you know, running your business, like, you know, one, two person business, my gosh, there's so much to do. And so any kind of like shortcuts that you can take that work for you, um, in the form of systems and templates is so, so, so helpful. So. I'm glad you do that and it makes sense. You've been so consistent.

And I would say too, like I've probably bought everything on the internet there is as far as like templates and like, here's a social media plan for 9 days or whatever. And I've found that I personally have to make a template for myself that works for me. It works for my brand, works for my brain. So I'm like, oh, my brain doesn't see it this way. I need to see it in a Google Doc or so. Don't necessarily. I would encourage people like don't feel like you have to find a template that works for you. Just find something, make it, and make it a template. Like just repeat your process. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. And I like the oh, I can't start until I have the perfect XYZ or whatever. I haven't found the right template or whatever the case may be to buy. It's like no, just just start. Just start, start, start, start, start. It's the internet. People don't remember what you did last time or said, or if you messed up, or if the email was sent at the wrong time or had a typo. Just start. And the people who are your super fans, like, they'll stick around thick and thin through that. Some very interesting research that came out last year, it was like all these companies that have these like creator economy reports now. And typically for folks who are like around our age, we've got about 5 creators that we feel the highest affinity for, that we're always like excited to see their content, it's on social media while we're scrolling or in our inboxes. And you have such an opportunity to carve out the space for you to be one of those 5 people, right? And I'm sure, Michelle, you're, you're one of those 5 people for many, many humans. And, um, that's kind of the goal, right? And then your ability to turn those people from followers and email subscribers to customers. So how to tell us about that process? Like, how do you actually go from content you put out to Yeah,

that's hard. That's one I feel like I'm still kind of trying to learn. I try to follow like an 80/20 rule as far as like my newsletters. 20% of it will be sales, 80% of it'll be like just free information, thoughts, whatever. And then at the end, I always try to make a sale, you know, the jab, jab, punch, whatever. And then same thing with Instagram content. Like, try to mostly entertain, but then throw in a sale. Um, my ebook or my current ebook thing is, um, you know, to get them on the list. I feel like honestly I could do a lot better job of selling. Um, I think selling has always been a growing process for me, trying to figure out how to sell more effectively. Um, and maybe a little more— I mean, at this point in my business, They tend— the right people tend to come, and they tend to come in just the right time. And the ones who don't come often end up being clients I didn't want to work with anyways. Or like, if they bail or they cancel or don't sign the contract or whatever, it tends to be like, okay, that was a relief. So I'm kind of—

Yeah.

You know, like, I'm kind of learning a little more To trust the process, to trust the process a little more. But I think I could be better at like the punch. I think I'm getting the jabs. I think I could be better at the punch, the actual sales.

You, you're in Level Up Creator School. You totally need to take my, um, course called Sales for Creators Who Hate Sales.

Oh, I need to do that.

It's like exactly, see, exactly what you need.

I don't hate sales in that like, so part of my process, you like You know, if I send you an email, you're on my newsletter, on Instagram, whatever. Um, you sign up for a free 15-minute call. So on that call, you fill out a little form beforehand telling me about your project. This is like, I think I wanna work together, but I'm not sure. Inquiry call. We get on the call.

Mm-hmm.

I have like a 98% sales close rate if you get on a call. Like I, I learned from Amanda Northcutt in my 20s, you know, like I'm like, I can sell. It's the getting 'em on the call that I feel like is hard for me. So I definitely do need to get in there.

Mm-hmm.

Learn more of that. But it's, it's getting— I don't know if it's the entry. I don't know. There's too much barrier to entry. I don't know what it is, but—

Yeah, that's— it's like you need— um, I do this sometimes. I'll offer through someone else's, like a marketing partner's audience, like a 45-minute call with me. And I promise that like you'll leave the call with 3 actionable takeaways. And so I wonder if your sort of like hook for that You know, whether it's FaceTime or Zoom or whatever video call you're doing, um, it's like, I will leave you with 3, uh, basically like low-hanging fruit that will like level up your space, or usually you cultivate your space, right?

Yeah.

To start cultivating your space. I mean, do you have a hook like that? Like, what's the call to action for?

No, I mean, the call, the call is basically like, do you want to work together and sign up to chat? It's not like a, here's a free Service, but that's a— I'm gonna have to delve into that. I'm like, so you just give away like

a little bit,

you just like give away 45 minutes of your time. That's a lot of time.

It's worth it though. I always end up on calls with very interesting people. Obviously, many of them do become clients, some of them don't, but some of them end up referring or, you know, I just also really enjoy it. I had a call with a guy a couple weeks ago that was from one of these like partner offers. And he's been like at a completely stuck point in his business trying to figure out, I won't go into the problem, um, 'cause I don't wanna like sell that guy out or anything. But, um, I gave him a solution on that 45-minute call and he was like, holy shit, we have, me and my business partner have been trying to figure this out for like 8 months. And this is the most, he said, he like gave me a testimonial, which was super cool of him. But he's like, this is the most impactful business call I've had in 10 years. And so like the opportunity to help someone get unstuck is really like, I just, I love that very, very much. Um, yeah. So, but yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the promise of 3 actionable takeaways. That's no joke, right? Especially for someone who's stuck and they're coming to me, like people who book those calls have a problem they're trying to work through. Right.

Right.

It's not just, hey, how are you? You know, I wanted to meet you kind of a thing. Yeah. Like, for sure. Let's get down to business.

Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna be thinking about

that. But it's the appetizer, the amuse-bouche. Like, you got to give a little bit of a taste of the goods and like show your ability. It's like the concept of show, not tell, right? And so you're showing them, I am fully capable of sort of immersing myself in your space in a digital environment. And here's what you can start doing. And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Like, you haven't seen anything yet kind of a thing.

Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. Um, okay, we need to wrap up here, but, uh, a couple more quick questions. Have you ever wanted to just like throw in the towel and go back to working 9 to 5?

Today or like ever? Like the last hour? The last 5 hours? The last 5 days? How many— are you asking how many times a day or how many times ever?

I like this real talk. Okay.

Yes.

So that is correct.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah, in March actually, I looked at jobs. Like I looked at LinkedIn, LinkedIn. I don't, where do you look at jobs? I don't know. I haven't done it in 7 years.

Indeed. Yeah.

Indeed. I think I was looking on Indeed for the first time in many, many years. I was like actually looking at jobs and mainly like, what would it take to get me out of this? Like, what would I, not what would it take, but like how much money could I be making? And do they offer remote work? And would I have to go to an office and would it be full-time? And would I make 6 figures? You know, like those were the questions.

Yeah.

But it was the first time that I'd really been like, what am I, what am I missing out on by doing this? Like, what am I, what am I committing to? And that was a good mental shift for me of the answer's no, no, I could not make more money, have just as much flexibility, work as little as I do, and wear as few pants as I do if I quit this business, you know, and be as happy as I am. Like, But I think there's so many days. Oh my gosh, there are so many days when I just think, this isn't worth it. This isn't worth it. Like, this is exhausting. I'm tired. I'm just tired. And I feel that more often than I'd probably like to admit. Hmm. But to me, you know, it's conversations like these that I have, I'd say fairly often, like at least once a month, I have a conversation with someone, whether it's a client or someone I haven't talked to in a while who reminds me where I've come from, or I talk to a friend who works for a corporation and I realize I have worked so hard to get here. This is not worth throwing the towel in. And this is still exactly what I would do if I had a trust fund. That's like my litmus test. Whoa.

There it is. Yeah.

That is my litmus test. Now, if anybody has a trust fund they want to let me know how to get into, that'd be great. I'd still take it. But like, if, if I inherited $1 million today, if I won the lottery today, if I had a trust fund, if I had a partner that made millions of dollars, which is also available to me, I would still do what I'm doing. I would still do exactly what I'm doing. Would I do it a little different? Yes. Yes, I would have a little more spaciousness, a little more flow. I would work a little less. I would be a little less anxious. I would go to a little less therapy than I currently do to manage my burnout. But I still know this is everything I believe in. This is like my golden thread, my life calling, what I'm meant to do. I think it might just shift how I do things. And, um, but yeah, I get— I think about throwing in the towel. Often. And I, I feel like for me too, I remember I had a photographer friend a couple years ago and he was a little further in his business and a little more successful than me at the time. And I remember asking him like, do you ever wanna quit? And he was like, all the time. And I was like, oh, okay. There's nothing wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with me. Like, like, yes. Yes. All the time. And I, so I think now for me too, just having I honestly have a great group of people that I turn to that I'm like, oh, you're still, you're in it. You're doing like, I just have like a, I don't know. I have a couple different business owner friends that I can call and be like, I just wanna quit today. And they're like, I know, me too. TikTok sucks, you know, or whatever. I'm not even on TikTok, but it just seemed like a good example.

Yes.

So yes, the answer's yes.

Yeah. That's super fair. I get that. But you said so, you answered so many questions right there, but it's like, it's still worth it at the end of the day. And the ultimate job, I feel like, you know, the question that, you know, career coaches or whoever will ask you, they're trying to help you figure out like what the middle of that Venn diagram is that I mentioned at the beginning is like, what would you do if you had a trust fund or, you know, didn't matter if you got paid or not kind of a thing? Like, what would you feel compelled, you know, in your gut? To, to bring forward to the world and to share with the world. And so it's so cool that you have found the middle of those circles and are leaning into it. And yeah, it's totally normal to, to doubt, to question, to wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. So I'm glad you had that gut check and you went and looked for jobs and you're like, nope, I'm good.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally.

I think there's some low-hanging fruit there with, we got to adjust your value proposition. We got to take that. conversation into Level Up Creator School for sure. But you got to post about this because I was literally talking about like value propositions with a couple other people in there, um, the last couple of days on some of our live sessions. And I think if we could just increase your conversion rates from email newsletter or lead magnet to getting on the phone, like that could drastically increase your revenue. Yeah. That's my new mission for the year.

I love that.

We're gonna do it.

I love that. I love that. And there's still so much like, Amanda, oh my gosh, I need to hire you for like a weekend intensive to be like, here's where your business is going next. Because this is how I also know I'm not done. It's like, I know there's so many more layers to my business of expansion and of what's next and pivoting and shifting. And I think that's the beauty too of owning your own business and being a creative is you get to do that. Like, you work for a corporation, you don't get to say, hey everybody, we're pivoting. We're no longer doing TikTok. We're gonna, you know, we're gonna do Reels. Instead of posts, you know, it's like, but when you're the boss, you get to, you get to say, I'm going to try workshops. I'm going to try Pinterest. I'm going to try a subscription. I'm going to try a lead magnet. You get to, you get to pivot, which is great.

Yes. There are so many amazing things that come with being your own boss and being a creative person who gets to come to work and Share your gifts with the world and, um, test and iterate and just create and try new things all the time. Like you're never, you're never ever stuck and no one's dictating, um, you know, what you can or can't do. So yeah, I like that there's really like no boundaries. You have permission to do anything and everything as long as it's within like your value set and POV, like you're gold, right?

Yeah. So good.

Yeah. Um, all right, Michelle, I know you've got a freebie, so you want to mention that and let us know where we can find you online and if you have a quick carding shot, please share.

Yeah, so, um, I do have a freebie. It's a guide to how to find your own style for your own home. Um, it's kind of the number one question I get asked from clients is like, or I even get them asked like on a first date, like, oh, you're an interior designer, I don't know what my style is. Um, and what's a little unique, um, about this guide that helps you find your own style is I break it up into how your space functions, how your space feels and how it looks. So a lot of styles just aren't based on how it looks, and that's kind of the least important thing to me and my business and my belief system around our space. I think what really matters is how it functions for you and your loved ones and how it feels, what, what emotions and feelings it emits inside of you. And so it's really a guide that walks you through the process to find your own style and really set your own intention for your space. And then everything builds out of that. It's intention. So you can find that at cultivateyourspace.com. You can find me on Instagram @cultivate.your.space. And Instagram is mainly where I hang out. And also, if you want to get thoughts and updates and guides and all that sort of stuff, hop on my newsletter. You can also find that at my website.

And we'll make sure we link all that stuff in the show notes. Thank you so much, Michelle. Anything else you want to add or?

I don't think so. I think just taking note even of the space around you, maybe your office you're working from, and just notice how it's impacting you. Notice how it's impacting your creativity, your productivity, your drive, your motivation. Maybe even noticing your bedroom. Is it impacting your rest? Is it impacting your relaxation? Is it impacting your intimacy? Like, just, I think that's kind of my seed and word to the world is like, just take notice of how your physical space is impacting you. And that you have power to do something about it. You can make a shift.

Yes. Oh my gosh, that is so important to everyone listening. And because like, uh, we get questions all the time about like, how do I put myself in a position to be more creative? Like, how do I be more creative, basically? And it is a lot of putting yourself in a position with a number of different factors, but one is your space, the space that we're in. Hey, would you do a workshop for us in Creator School? Because that would be awesome. 100%.

100%, I will.

Okay. Cool. All right. We'll talk about that offline, but, um, thank you again, Michelle. We know that your time is precious. Thank you for sharing yours with us. At Level Up Creators, we turn your experience and expertise into recurring revenue with services like membership communities, high-ticket small group coaching programs, and more. We help creators like Michelle at levelupcreatorschool.com, where our team becomes your full-stack team of advisors and includes no-fluff creator courses, a vibrant creator community, and more. All on a subscription basis with no long-term commitments. And as ever, we still offer consulting and implementation work through our consulting firm, Level Up Creators. See the show notes for more information and a suite of high-value free resources. We will see you next time on the Level Up Creators Podcast. Thanks.